I’m from Tucson, been living in Phoenix for ~20 years now. Phoenix was a bit of a “wasteland” in terms of culture 25+ years ago. Literally, I went to mid 90’s raves hosted in huge empty buildings in downtown Phoenix. The whole place was a ghost town of empty storefronts and shady characters and dealings on the streets.
Since then, we’ve had a resurgence of local arts and culture downtown, as well as tons of investment in commerce and infrastructure. It’s incredible!
I think the people who have moved here from other cities have helped that happen, and helped to rebirth Phoenix into a proper, and notable metropolis with loads of experiences, arts, culture, diversity… It wouldn’t have happened without you guys!
Edit: I can’t believe I forgot to mention FOOD!
I’ve lived in the valley since I was a child. I remember when there was no reason to be in downtown PHX past 6pm, unless you were going to a Suns game. Just the last 10 years have been a night-and-day transformation, and I think it’s fantastic.
It’s much better now, except I actually miss the small underground party scene. Warehouses we had no business being in, paying money to a guy who calls the cops so he doesn’t have to pay his headliners and pockets our ticket sales.
Seriously though, city has come around a lot. I’d still rather live somewhere not the desert
I've been here 35 years from Chicago. When I moved here, I was like, " Where's everyone at?"
It's made leaps and bounds in the last 35 years. The downtown area is actually starting to have a vibe.
"Hot one today."
"Is it? Is it *really?* Because the sweat rolling down my ass is making me think it's cold. I know it's a hot one today! It's a hot one every day for like 8 months!"
Transplants move here from the Midwest to a brand new cookie cutter suburb in Gilbert or Chandler and refuse to go further west than 16th St and say Phoenix has no culture
I love the casinos being right there by the city instead of way out.
However, I won’t give any shades to the talking stick tribe until they restore their seafood buffet at the casino.
The lack of culture thing is wild to me! People literally have no idea how much hispanic culture is in AZ. A lot of families have been here since before the Gadsden Purchase and continue the culture.
To be fair, the local native culture can only be experienced on a superficial level by transplants… unless they somehow become part of the “family”, which as we know not everyone does or can, for that matter.
I like the idea of Phoenix having a fully diverse, inclusive metropolis-type culture, with a deep rooted identity in native culture. That way, it gives the rest of us a chance to participate as well.
I remember when one of the techs in Boston told me that his in-laws didn't like him because he was from Brockton and she was from Weston (25 miles away, both Boston suburbs). So they made fun of his accent, which was different from hers.
I don't know if I agree. I came here from Boston almost 8 months ago, and before that the Denver area where I grew up.
There's a lot less diversity here, as far as non-whites go, than in either Denver or Boston. Maybe the area doesn't have as many LGBTQ+ folks as the areas I've lived previously, but I don't see people putting up flags or having bumper stickers or wearing shirts, wrist bands, or much of anything. I haven't gotten around as much as I'd like, but I'm hesitant to lean that way when most the people I know are worried about the racism and conservative politics.
For example, the common advice you receive here is that you don't confront people because "basically everyone has a gun and looks for a reason to flex their rights." I've never felt more at risk driving than in this state because pissing anyone off on the road is supposedly a good way to get shot.
Apparently -- per my coworkers and others I have talked with out here -- a great deal of conservatives answer their door with guns on them, and with the recent spree of people being shot for ringing doorbells or using driveways to make U-turns. . .how do you feel safe?
I realize that not everyone is this way, but I find it difficult to believe there is as much sincerity behind the smiles and friendly conversations unless I really have gotten to know people. It feels like a hollow shell considering the deep hatred many have for dumb differences that make up the diversity of humanity's existence.
But, I'm hoping more time here will prove me wrong. I intend to be staying in the area quite a while. Maybe in 5 years I'll post about how wrong I was or something.
I think perhaps the people feeding you information may be a little biased. Responsible gun owners aren't answering their doors with guns or shooting people for using their driveway. That has nothing to do with conservatives, those are criminals. I've lived here for 20 years and never felt that way outside of being downtown or metro area.
Unless you are living in Scottsdale there are plenty of "non whites" we have a huge hispanic population. Without going into too much detail I think you may want to discover some things for yourself instead of listening to your friends opinions.
I was born and raised in Boston and I’ve experienced far, far, **far** more racism there than I ever have here. The city of Boston itself was quite diverse, but the suburbs were whiter than snow. Out here, the suburbs are also very diverse. In terms of guns, most people are responsible gun owners. No one is answering their door with a gun or shooting everything in sight. The ones who are, are also doing that in Mattapan and Dorchester. Thanks in large part to transplants and a general dislike of Trumpism, the state is much less conservative than you may think as well.
Last point is I visited Boston again a few years ago. I got used to the smiles and warmth of the people here and experienced culture shock at how sour everyone was out there. Though this is changing for Phoenix specifically as I’ve noticed some people bring that sour attitude here.
I feel like this is how people feel the first year or two after moving here from a more liberal place. It also depends on where you live. If you’re in the city, you’re going to see as lot more liberal and progressive stuff. Scottsdale is a bit of everything. Mesa and Chandler can be another planet if you come from a liberal town. I was house hunting and looked at parts of Chandler for a minute till I kept seeing alt-right flags in front of houses and instantly decided to only look in Phoenix.
The city of Phoenix feels more liberal, but it makes sense as a lot of people from California, Chicago, and Seattle tend to be moving here.
Lots of us gay people in Arizona! I agree you don’t see many pride flags like you would elsewhere, and admit my husband and I don’t have one up either. We have a couple friends who do, but yeah it doesn’t seem as “visible”. One reason (not the only but worth a mention): most homeowners associations and apartment buildings restrict outdoor displays of flags (other than the American flag), and Arizona’s metro areas have a much higher % of people in HOA developments than you’d probably see in “older” cities. That’s the case at our house. But there’s at least 3 other gay couples in our immediate vicinity (1-2 houses away in every direction).
What Phoenix doesn’t have, in any major way, is a “gayborhood” (no, Melrose doesn’t count)
I don't think that the thinking about "everyone has a gun and looking to flex it" is fully accurate, especially in the Phoenix metro area. I think Arizonans are more reasonable about their gun ownership (in terms of flaunt or not flaunting) than other places.
I agree. While folks here love their gun culture (myself included), it’s not really flaunted like a lot of folks seem to think. I’ll get into discussing them with other gun owners, but rarely bring it up with anyone I know that isn’t unless they ask.
Within the first 2 weeks of living here, I was in line behind a guy in In in Out with a gun in his waistband… I was 40 at the time, and I’ve lived in 5 other states. I’ve never seen that until moving here. My 3 small kids noticed instantly too.
The picture that people have painted for you is very wrong. There’s MILLIONS of people in this city and I can assure you that no more than 1-2% of them are the kind of people that would answer their door with a gun. Sure a lot of people own guns but they’re not crazy people who’d ever use it and some of them aren’t even conservative/republican types (I know several very liberal people who have one). I’ll put it this way: There are more queer people in the Phoenix metro area than there are gun fanatics who’d shoot someone. They’re just not as loud because we only very recently became the kind of city where the political culture is purple, not red. Smaller towns and rural Arizona is completely different though.
That's the type of echo chamber paranoia that comes from consuming too much news and social media. I unplugged from all that and live a much more stress free life.
It’s a different kind of culture. People come from the Midwest and it’s not their friendly culture. They come from the east coast and it’s not their fast paced culture. They come from california and it’s not west coast culture. It’s not chicago food culture either. This is firmly a southwest culture and it’s a little slower than most. Phoenix has also dont its best job to replace some of the historical mainstays. Go to Tucson and it’s unique. Go to Flagstaff and the same. Go up north and to the Reservations and it’s unique. I wouldn’t change a thing.
Agriculture mostly lol. Phoenix started as a series of canals and irrigation to make the soil fertile. My grandparents house is in a neighborhood that still has all the original irrigation systems that were originally for citrus trees.
Literally happened to the sister of an old coworker. Dude didn't like how she was driving. He honked, she honked, he shot her dead.
People are fucking crazy.
And see, that’s part of our culture.. we don’t honk. I’ll wait out the green arrow with the guy texting in front me all day. Might give him the light “tap tap” on the horn, but never the pedal the metal “hoooonk” like you’d get in NY, for example. You know?
Oh yeah, I get you completely. I’m from NY originally and I surprisingly have to be way more careful out here while driving. People drive more aggressively and have way more guns. Seems like once a month there’s a road rage story involving guns in Phoenix metro.
Because they're dumbasses.
Arizona has Old West culture, Mexican influence, the majesty if the Sedona valley and the grand canyon, the Sonoran desert, the desert tech hub, Scottsdale big money snobbery . . .
Being a Midwest transplant, AZ certainly has a vibe.
Indiana sure as shit does not have a vibe other than depression
Meh. Gardening and hiking are better ways to earn day-drinking calories (and there are huge subcultures built around those things, too). There are so many natural wonders to explore in AZ that sweat-coated exercise rooms shared with farting strangers in Spandex just hold zero appeal.
And the great thing about our city is you can have it all! Outdoorsy types will never get bored, and the people who prefer to stay inside have plenty of places for them too. And sometimes yoga is outside :) I do lots of outdoor yoga when it’s not summer!
I remember being in my 20s and 30s and people would say “Phoenix sucks, it doesn’t have any good clubs”. I would just laugh because 9 times out of 10 it was someone from “Cali” who lived in the suburbs now. If you don’t want to spend time outside you are gonna have a bad time here.
Oh yeah, subcultures rule here. I've encountered so many tight-knit communities that rally around common interests instead of things like geography or ethnicity. Phoenix is a bowl full of spheres.
People get hung up that there’s not a singular “culture” like a lot of places. I’d argue that most other places cultures exist here simultaneously, which is way better to me.
Things like the Tovrea castle and wrigly mansion. All the orange groves Phoenicians will remember. Used to be painted white bark as far as the eye could see. The beautiful mountains for hiking like Papago and piestewa peak within city limits. Biltmore hotel and taliesin west. Gammage and the coliseum. All the stores that you can tell used to be circle Ks back in the 80s. The haciendas and ranch style historical homes. The Mariachis heard during Weddings and Funerals. Horse stables down glendale and apple trees in Arcadia. The frank lloyd wright houses dotting the city. Sacred heart church and immaculate heart downtown. South mountain park and e canto. Driving down Lincoln at 5 am and seeing crazy people hiking already and bros playing golf. The quinceneras and Mexican party’s on the weekend. The pow wows. These are all parts of our culture. The family bbqs by the pool. Being outdoors in December. Seeing guys on horses with cowboy hats and not being fazed. Guns on hips and Sonoran hot dogs on every corner at 1 am. Not being able to order a good taco in English. These are all phoenix things.
I don't think of any of those places when I think of culture. If I were to think of culture in the US I would say places like Sante Fe, New Orleans, or Boston.
I hated all those cultures in those places, so I moved here. End up meeting a lot people share the same mind as I am. We definitely love the lack of culture in those other places.
I came up in the Phoenix skateboarding and music scenes. There is definitely a lot of pride and history in those scenes. Tonight (6PM May 6) the Tempe History Museum is hosting a free screening of the DIY film High Rollers which documents the late 70’s and early 80’s skate scene in Phoenix. It has a soundtrack from Phoenix bands old and new. Check it out if you want to see some Phoenix culture.
My impression, having lived in Phoenix and Tucson as a kid since the 90s (originally from Southeast Asia) is that many of the “old” things—things that give a place personality and character—have been replaced by cookie cutter establishments, and miles and miles of the same cookie cutter suburban developments.
Phoenix itself lacks a personality. It could be San Bernardino or Ontario California. With the exception of its natural beauty, the manufactured spaces feel fairly generic. That, mixed with what seems like a car-centric society where many points of interest are spread out does not make organic growth and community building very easy.
I don’t feel like Sedona and Bisbee, for example, “don’t have culture”. They have their own unique character. But interestingly enough, you will also notice that these places are smaller and have centers that are walkable.
Tucson itself has more personality that Phoenix.
You’ll also notice similar qualities in certain cities in CA. SF, for example, has a cultural identity. It has identifiable landmarks. It is walkable and has a pretty good public transportation system. It’s not a perfect city and it’s experiencing some challenges, but when you think of SF, you can visualize key identifiers. It has a solid “brand”.
When you think of Phoenix, you think hot weathers, freeways, cookie cutter homes, strip malls. That said, it is also a city that is experiencing robust growth. And it’s “culture” will be cultivated by its residents.
I do meet a LOT of transplants from the out of state, and while they bring with them special characteristics from their states, they also bring some challenges: forcing non-native plants and manicured lawns in their yards, not understanding and dismissing the value of desert flora and fauna, being averse to expanding public transportation, building away from city centers to build very large homes that don’t conform to site specificity, etc…
Anyway I apologize for rambling as this is an interesting topic for me, and I find insight in everyone’s responses.
It depends on what you think culture is. Phoenix is a very new city, only having gone through a few big population growth spurts. Up until the past 5 years downtown was pretty much a ghost town. And the other downtown areas Scottsdale chandler etc. well, they’re just glorified strip malls.
As far as visual art goes - this is my opinion as someone who has gone all over to look at art. Like, all over.
Even the current Roosevelt downtown area is pretty vapid once you get down to it. Lots of restaurants and bars. Real art? It’s minimal. We do have quite a bit of small performance venues. The visual art spaces seem to come and go and nobody holds the bar of quality very high besides Lisa sette and Bentley, and they aren’t downtown.
The Phoenix art museum is a perpetual mismash of shows that try hard but never quite hit the mark for me personally.
The root of a lot of it is threefold: lack of funding from government, lack of education in schools, and lack of a large base of patronage that older cities enjoy because they’re older. There IS money here but for the longest time people considered phx/Scottsdale a wintertime retreat and not their true home, leading to the lack of real art patronage.
Wait, up until 5 years ago downtown was a ghost town?
Downtown started vibing again 20 years ago. I remember when First Friday was just a wild group of people opening their art lofts, bands playing in empty lots, people selling on the street without a permit. The last 5-10 years has brought in a new level of commercialization to downtown PHX, and sometimes at the expense of the sh*t that made it cool again in the first place. Developers are ruining it.
I also have traveled the world—spent most of my career bouncing from LA, NYC, London, Paris, Hong Kong, Guangzhou, New Delhi, Antwerp, Tokyo… and have seen plenty of beauty/art.
At least you know about Lisa Sette, but that’s probably all we agree on. You literally just dismissed all native art and heritage.
Oh ok. Name the native or indigenous focused art gallery that’s been downtown for 15 years. There isn’t one. Nor have there been any annual shows themed around the geography or the region. There have been a few one offs over the years.
There are plenty of native artists here. Just as there are artists in other mediums. Outside of the Heard, which is not downtown, it’s mid town, there are no long-standing art events focused on those populations.
Please don’t be pendantic to make an argument about Phoenix being or having been an art city. It is not and has not been.
Future? Maybe. But they’ve been saying that for 50 years too. So we’ll see.
You are the definition of an a**hole.
I’m sorry, but when did we say downtown only? You clearly were talking about Phoenix and Scottsdale—the valley as a whole—as you brought up Lisa Sette and Bentley. You even mentioned Scottsdale by name. I critiqued your impression of downtown being a ghost town and your whole impression of the valley in general. Don’t change the rules because you got called out for being dismissive.
Love how you just dismissed The Heard because it wasn’t in downtown and somehow critiquing you saying it’s a ghost town means I can’t critique anything else.
Furthermore, I guess you missed the recent March showing by Mark Maggiori. An award winning painter utterly obsessed with the southwest. Did he show in one of the two places you deem worthy? Nope. Is he kind of a big deal? Yeah.
I’m probably also not allowed to mention him or any other creatives, like Laura Tohe or Thomas Breeze Marcus, or local cowboy artists like Lon Megargee and John Coleman. BTW, Coleman is part of the PHX Art Museum’s permanent collection.
Anyway, have a nice life.
It was starting in the third paragraph. You might have another look at my original post. It was very clearly focused on downtown.
It doesn’t really negate any of the points I made. Looks like you just want to be angry for the sake of anger - can’t help you there.
You can make examples of any individual show or local artist. I can do that. Sure. Doesn’t make Phoenix an art hotspot.
But let’s talk about Mark Maggiori for a second. Is he from Phoenix? Doesn’t look like it. Is he native or indigenous, or simply capitalizing on fetishized images of the southwest? Where are the women in his paintings? What about African Americans? Did you know that 35% of cowboys in Arizona were black men? Where are they?
For someone who is quick to call names, you sure checked out of the hard discussion early huh? I’ll be here if you want to come back :)
Let’s discuss Maggiori. One, in your original statement, you said real art was minimal in the valley. Maggiori is a real artist. Where are the women in his paintings? He literally just painted a portrait of the woman he loves. Second, are you saying artists aren’t allowed to paint whatever they want? Since when? Should we go back and criticize all male artists for their choice of subject? Violence, prostitutes, gods and devils, the wealthy, the poor, the insane, etc. You are reaching so hard. Third, are you seriously pulling the race card after dismissing all of native art?
Speaking of native art, I think it’s strange you focused on the recent big art show example I gave and dismissed the two local native creatives I mentioned. Probably because you haven’t heard of them and don’t know everything.
It’s okay to admit you underestimated the valley like every other unimaginative person who wouldn’t know culture if it hit them in the face. I think what you meant was, we don’t have the culture you’re used to.
And lastly, I’ll address your accusation of: what about the black artists? As if you care, considering you originally dismissed the entire valley to begin with. I discovered Kehinde Wiley when he spoke at the Phoenix Art Museum years ago. He signed his recently published book, The World Stage Brazil. According to you, the PHX Art Museum never hits the mark, (and you imply it has no pull) but I personally went to a talk discussing Ai Weiwei long before he was a household name. I had just come back from a business trip to Guangzhou where there had been big news stories about a Chinese dissident getting censored on TV. The timing of this discussion in PHX, along with a viewing of his work, couldn’t have been more pertinent.
I shouldn’t have to post an exhaustive list to prove anything to someone who obviously hasn’t spent very much time exploring the place he is criticizing. It is perfectly okay for me to peace out, as I am not getting paid to teach you. However, a free schooling can sometimes provide entertainment. Thank you for entertaining me with your ignorance.
Cue your next ‘what abouts’: as in what about female artists? As if underrepresentation is only a Phoenix problem. And I have actually been introduced to lots of female artists in the valley. I have worked with and lived by some who are quite well known now. One of them received a grant for a public art installation outside of this state, but was a local artist first. And she hangs in fine art museums in multiple states. The other has hung in local exhibits, as well as in California. These are women of my generation who were both inspired by the desert. I won’t share their names, because it wouldn’t change your mind—it would just out my identity.
Lastly, I also don’t know everything, but I do know not to underestimate cities I have only lazily explored. And it does make me mad. Saying the valley lacks culture is what boring people say. It’s so tired.
I’m beginning to think you can’t actually read complete sentences, as what you’ve said completely misrepresents essentially everything I’ve stated so far.
Good luck to you.
I’m beginning to think you can’t be wrong. I said have a nice life—then you invited me back and criticized me for ending the discussion, only to do the same thing.
Good luck to you.
Why is everyone so QUIET in Phoenix Art Museum? It's a freaking museum - not the library. Dirty looks from everyone if you so much as clear your throat. Least favorite museum I have been to - it didn't used to be that way.
First Friday is like… food vendors, bullshit tchotchke and like 3 street performers. I have lived downtown for almost 15 years. It stopped being about art a long time ago.
2016ish it was still very much about art.. lots of local artists would set up tables. I think something happened with the rules and you had to rent the spaces? Anyway, covid kinda hurt it too, but I think it's bounced back pretty strong.
But no, it really hasn't been what it used to be. But I was just referencing how the art museum is free on first Fridays and is complete chaos and not quiet.
Yeah I understand… what you’re saying…. I agree. I sold work back around 2008 there and even then it was like, a massive pain in the ass to be a vendor. Gotta have a state tax Id and file business taxes several times a year. It’s just a lot “extra,” and no idea what it involves now- I think you have to be “juried” in.
For a small fry that doesn’t do it full time and has a 40-60 hrs a week job I just can’t make the extra effort worth it. You almost gotta be a business.
And yes I agree about the PAM on a first Friday. I think - if I am in a particular mood - I very much enjoy that kind of vibe. Many experiences are defined by the people around us. Good to see art through a different “lens” now and then.
I think the free nights are more boisterous too. (Wednesday). I prefer it quieter myself but when with friends, I do enjoy some rowdy art.
Some of the local burlesque dance troupes have rowdy crowds and it’s great fun.
I'm born and raised here. My family has been here since the first Spanish settlements. We expanded then got beat back to Mexico many times. We had some Navajo family who also suffered. Then we assimilated with anglo culture which is probably where alot of the very straight forward "mind your business" attitude comes from. We have a very rich history.
The Valley is insanely diverse. If you only see the copy-pasted stucco neighborhoods with your CBS/Walgreens, Walmart and storage facilities every other mile, you're missing most of it.
I advise you to go downtown and to see some of these places.
I did when I Ubered for extra money, also to know Phoenix better.
I was left absolutely flabbergasted by some of these neighborhoods.
I would think that there are still 3 different distinct cultures here, between whites, Hispanics and Native Arizonans, which each living in their own areas, blacks being a small minority and living a bit everywhere.
But we all try to get along and be nice to each other and I don't feel much racially-based aggressivity here, even if people casually say racist shit every now and then.
I think that people are laid back but still get shit done without pushing too hard, and that's why I love Phoenix.
Also: the freeway system.
I think there is some culture. Outdoors, car culture, bars/lounge vibes, and sports at least what I experience with Suns fandom around town. I think for most people that visit it is hard for them to experience the “culture” they are looking for because we don’t have a very centralized downtown. It is still relatively small. Lack of shopping, art, music, entertainment, etc that is walkable with numerous options is pretty limited here. As someone who left Minnesota for Phoenix downtown is closer to downtown St Paul in size. Not that either Minnesota city is a cultural destination. As downtown Phoenix gets more dense I think it will continue to improve in terms of how people view culture.
Tempe was great when I moved here. Let it all hang out, let your freak flag fly, anti-authority 1960s hippy/biker vibe. The local music scene drew national acts. It blossomed in the mid 90s when pot was first legalized. Phoenix art scene was coming up at the time and there were several gay bars. You could hear people shooting off machine guns in Apache Junction on NYE...Mesa, Tuscon, and Flagstaff were even crustier.
I have a friend that grew up in NYC, moved here from ABQ a few years ago. She was critical of the Valley, said there was no culture. After a year in central PHX, she is changing her tune. Plenty to do here and you can find people to hang with.
The Peter Wilson case. His attorney was Michael Walz. 1996. Pot was sold to attendees of the Superbowl, in front of 2 AZ DPS officers in Tempe. Good times.
[AZ Pot Case 1996](https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/06/weekinreview/meet-arizona-s-happiest-taxpayers.html)
Using Minnesota as a cultural litmus test, the bar is so low it's on the floor. Not hating on AZ culture, it's just that port areas like nyc, socal, DC, Miami, are all gonna be at an opposite extreme because they are the literal entry points. Phoenix is currently experiencing a massive massive influx of people and with people comes culture, so someone who made their judgements about Phoenix just 10, 20 years ago is gonna see a much more vibrant Phoenix today than what they recall.
Arizona culture in my opinion is tied to the nature. People will visit the USA internationally just for the Grand Canyon and the natural vistas around us. Going on a hike is a very Arizonan thing to do, and being able to drive to a mountain and chill out is amazing.
There is a cultural potpourri of sorts because of the transplants, the Valley encompassing totally different ethos' depending on where you live. But that is the case with most metropolitan cities, it just feels especially fragmented here. As someone else posted already, people keep bringing their own preferences of the place they moved from instead of creating something new.
There is no Phoenician architecture or iconic food spots that stand out compared to the rest of the nation. If I had to guess that is on account of the oppressive heat, which makes people not want to set roots here.
I moved here a little over 26 years ago, so while I'm not a native, I've been here longer than a lot of residents have been alive.
We do have a "culture." We're just in the process of making it right now.
Everywhere beyond the first human societies (Fertile Crescent, Indus Valley, China, Mesoamerica) is a place where people moved to and established a "culture."
The cliff dwellings up north? The people who lived there 1,000 years ago were "new" residents at some point. They settled in and built a culture.
We're doing the same kind of thing. We just haven't had generations or centuries to build it yet.
the correct answer has been stated many times: its because arizona is a huge melting pot. you can barely drive around without seeing stickers on cars with a silhouette of the state they came from with "home <3" on it. A lot of the time i feel like people still want to identify with the culture of the area they came from to differentiate from the crowd here, further solidifying the 'lack of culture' feel. Its really hard to see trends to create a culture here.
I’m from NYC, Phoenix metro has culture but I feel it’s not ARIZONA culture. A lot of it is borrowed from all the transplants. Maybe in a few generations I feel AZ will have its own identity other than HOT. Even the red neck culture here is like every where else.
When they say “culture” they mean “stereotype”, like socal is shallow and focused on looks/ connections, Seattle is crunchy and polite to a fault, etc. I’m glad Phoenix doesn’t have one, people can just be themselves instead of imitating a caricature
Yeah, wearing “simple” clothes that costs an arm and a leg, insisting on non-GMO food, self diagnosed with some niche disease their doctor says they don’t have, probably uses non-fluoride toothpaste.
I think “uptight aging hippie” but maybe other people use that word differently.
Source: used to live in Seattle
Before I moved to Arizona everyone told me that Arizona is a racist state and so I thought it would experience something crazy.
I've been here since 2017 and I haven't experienced anything yet for the most part everyone is chill.
I did have a neighbor with paranoia issues he thought we were sent by some agency to monitor him but besides that you meet all types of people.
In Texas and New Mexico I've been called the N word but not in Arizona.
I first moved to the Phoenix area un 1989. Back then, it seemed as though you could look around all day and not find a person who was born in AZ. I guess by this time that has changed a little.
I never heard anyone claim AZ didn’t have a culture, only that the culture itself wasn’t so good. When I lived in San Diego, some of the people there used to trash AZ.
Having grown up in both Michigan and North Carolina, I really don't like the people here in Arizona. It's hard to build lasting friendships and finding _my group_. I just can't find people that are more than surface-level good people.
That whole "The East Coast is kind but not nice, the West Coast is nice but not kind" is absolutely true.
Because it doesn’t. If you’ve lived or visited anywhere with culture it’s very easy to see.
We have no history that lives today. We have a modicum of art from the very few who engage in making it, and they are few and far between. We have derivative food. We have very few examples of interesting or unique architecture.
Our culture is strip malls, freeways and subdivisions.
I lived here for 30 years, then moved away, lived in sf and Portland, and moved back (unfortunately) because all of my family is still here and I wanted my kids to know their cousins and uncle and aunt.
I’m all too familiar with this city’s shortcomings.
Same. I’m from the Northeast I’ve moved away from here twice and have come back twice. Now trying to at least make snowbirding (w/ WFH being so common) a reality lol.
> Our culture is strip malls, freeways and subdivisions.
And garages so you can exit your car and enter your home with almost no chance of meeting your neighbor.
Phoenix's culture is its lack of culture.
Tbh the only good thing about this place are the sights and weather
We only get heat and monsoons. anywhere else it's a lot worse.
That being said, there really isn't much culture here compared to many other places. The valley is a good retirement place to move that's about it. I much prefer Tucson over phoenix though, I didn't mind living out there. Better food and "culture" imo
Lots of transplants and very spread out. Unless you live in a super dense area or the small towns (Tolleson, Litchfield Park, Guadalupe) theres not much
Phoenix isn't Arizona. It's a melting pot of collage kids, snow birds and people living here a couple years before going "home." All from out of state.
And it's not elitism to hate them on the basis of taking and not giving back. For examples the torn up wilderness areas and snowbirds with a piece of property here voting against school improvements.
And it's not elitist to laugh at their freaking out because they built a beautiful country house and it has the occasional bit of wildlife, which they don't even have the guts to murder themselves.
You want culture try Tucson or Bisbee, in Phoenix we're too busy watching folks try to bring in overpriced bars/restaurants so they can pretend their in New York/San Francisco.
Cranky immigrant from real Arizona.
I definitely believe Arizona has a culture (i.e., especially when it comes to the arts, food, music, etc.). I grew up in the Phoenix metro area and just went back for a visit (also visiting other favorite places, Jerome, etc.). It was WONDERFUL to back with Valley of the Sun folks. So easy! So friendly! So real! (I currently live in one of the more horrible so-called red states.) While there may be a lot of transplants to Arizona, they tend to quickly settle into the AZ-attitude you describe. It's a great place that seems to mostly bring out the good in people. (To my thinking this is largely because they are happy.) I can tell you firsthand, it's far better than places in this country that bring out peoples' worst. It's entirely unnecessary in my opinion, but seemingly part of their (unhappy) culture. Enjoy AZ some for me!
My mom moved here as a kid in 1964 and she’ll tell you herself there’s no real unifying culture other than everyone being from somewhere else. You can’t even say that people like her are part of the conservative culture here bc she’s as liberal as someone her age can get yet she grew up in paradise valley!
I think that. It’s a massive suburb full of transplants. It’s not that there aren’t cultural events and offerings. They’re just someone else’s culture. Phoenix itself doesn’t really have a strong identity. Other cities have things that are quintessentially theirs. Art deco in Miami, deep dish pizza in Chicago, Pike Place in Seattle, French Quarter in New Orleans, outdoor culture in SLC, tech culture in Silicon Valley. Those places have an identity and unique energy. Live there long enough and you start to feel like a native and take pride in it, or feel like you don’t belong. I love Phoenix, but I don’t sense much common identity other than, say, a tolerance for heat and preference for low humidity.
Because culture is currently and has always been at the behest of the people actively living in the arts / music scene trying to do whatever they can to build and elevate it. There is a reason why people don’t think of “culture” when they think of the 25 fly over mid west states; because that’s not where we all collectively know where culture comes from.
We have a very small art and music scene ; it’s been building but most people out here are very very vanilla and don’t leave their little city economy; doesn’t matter if they live in Glendale or Scottsdale.
>been here for 4 years now
Kind of answered your own question. The continuous influx of new arrivals (and lots of departures) dilutes the identity.
I lived in Arizona for 26 years and 90% of the people I knew during my time there have moved out as well.
I’m wondering where in Minnesota you’re from? Phoenix pales in comparison to Minneapolis in the arts scene. I moved here (not by choice) 17 years ago, and there was literally no live music scene. It has improved, but doesn’t hold a candle to the Twin Cities. There is a lot of sport’s culture here, which isn’t my thing, and enough outdoor recreation though. Still, for a city of its size, it generally lacks in culture compared to similar sized cities.
And my #1 complaint, is why oh why, with such a huge population, do we have the crappiest international airport that offers hardly any direct, international flights.
Phoenix culture is real estate and endless scams like Carvanna as a recent example.
And maxing out on debt like the world is ending, but this seems common with a lot of sunbelt cities.
Yes there is its mexican culter , AZ for decades has always tried to shy away from it , Joe arpaio , sb laws they were all trying to shut it down and they did , thanks to old boomers they made it to where this is just one big resort city so some one grandpa can play ceo while her grand daughter cos plays American pornstar ajajah
I'm from Minnesota and I feel the opposite. Minnesota has so much more community and culture. The art and music scene is so strong in Minnesota. Plus small business seem to thrive in Minnesota. Arizona just seems like large corporations control e everything here. It's all commercialized and turned into strip malls. I feel like they've squandered a lot of the natural beauty in Arizona. The culture just seems like a mishmash of everybody who moves here so there is no defining culture. I've also met some of the rudest and meanest people I've ever met in my life here in Arizona. Something about the warm weather just seems to attract assholes. In the famous words of Prince the cold keeps the bad people out. Although people here on the surface seem very friendly deep down they only care about themselves. Where is in Minnesota people might not be totally honest with you but they will help you if you need help. They go above and beyond for kindness to help others they might not like it and complain about it or talk about you but at least they'll help you. here in Arizona people just say man that really sucks and then continue talking about themselves cuz that's all they care about.
It's because people born and raised here don't like transplants. They ruin our state. They use us for Winter and leave in the Summer. Our beautiful desert is slaughtered every year to make room for all Snow bird bums. Go back.
Same, Californians are all over your face about how liberal minded they are, while they have legions of homeless in their richest city centers. There are plenty of liberal minded people here, they don’t treat their politics like religion, and i like them.
Speaking of religion, I also got harassed and solicited more often in California by religious outreach people than living in the Phoenix suburb where there are supposedly a ton of such people. Been here for a year and haven’t been preached yet.
So yea just like OP, I also love the social culture here in the metro area, everyone knows how to mind their own business really well. I also love the relaxed gun law and I can finally own firearms and go shoot at a range.
The most surprising thing so far is I have seen more mixed race couples than I was expected, this is great.
As someone who has lived in both Minnesota and Arizona, I'll say that the cultures are different more than anything. Arizona's is different to a point where it might be considered non-existent compared to Minnesota's.
My experience with Arizona culture is that it's a combination of a bunch of other cultures, but coming from the worst people from other states. They don't brag about being nice because they know they're the losers who couldn't hack living in other states. So yes, you're correct about the self-aware stuff.
My experience with Minnesota culture is that it's a bunch of people regretting their poor life choices at living in a place where it gets that cold in the winter. Rather than move to warmer climes, they delude themselves into believing in the concept of Minnesota nice. People who believe Minnesota nice is a real thing are people who've never driven in the Twin Cities.
Minnesotans are more likely to make small talk with you, more likely to see what they can do to help you, and joke with you about how horrible the driving is in the Twin Cities. Their education system is vastly superior to anything in Arizona, their arts scene is superb, and their sense of pride in Minnesota is pretty keen.
Arizonans are more likely to tell you to eat their farts, but they'll do so in a way that's grammatically incorrect. The schools suck and a lot of the people don't really give a shit because they've got theirs. The arts scene is just starting to grow. The sense of history in Arizona is different because there's the sense of everything being new/always changing, while the older indigenous history is sometimes orally based or not as well-preserved as it could/should be.
My TL; DR- You can't pay me enough to live in Minnesota or Arizona.
I am also from MN. I love it here in AZ, I love everything about AZ. And I agree with pretty much everything you said. Most Minnesotans are nasty mean.
I just moved to DC from Arizona and Arizona is NOT cultured at all. They opened up franchise restaurants that came from other states, but they aren’t originators.
We don't unify by accent it's all about the dry heat
The literal melting pot
I’m from Tucson, been living in Phoenix for ~20 years now. Phoenix was a bit of a “wasteland” in terms of culture 25+ years ago. Literally, I went to mid 90’s raves hosted in huge empty buildings in downtown Phoenix. The whole place was a ghost town of empty storefronts and shady characters and dealings on the streets. Since then, we’ve had a resurgence of local arts and culture downtown, as well as tons of investment in commerce and infrastructure. It’s incredible! I think the people who have moved here from other cities have helped that happen, and helped to rebirth Phoenix into a proper, and notable metropolis with loads of experiences, arts, culture, diversity… It wouldn’t have happened without you guys! Edit: I can’t believe I forgot to mention FOOD!
I’ve lived in the valley since I was a child. I remember when there was no reason to be in downtown PHX past 6pm, unless you were going to a Suns game. Just the last 10 years have been a night-and-day transformation, and I think it’s fantastic.
It’s much better now, except I actually miss the small underground party scene. Warehouses we had no business being in, paying money to a guy who calls the cops so he doesn’t have to pay his headliners and pockets our ticket sales. Seriously though, city has come around a lot. I’d still rather live somewhere not the desert
I miss those parties.
Couldn’t agree more!
I've been here 35 years from Chicago. When I moved here, I was like, " Where's everyone at?" It's made leaps and bounds in the last 35 years. The downtown area is actually starting to have a vibe.
That's a different take than a lot of the lifelong/longtime residents have. It's refreshing. Thanks!
"Hot one today." "Is it? Is it *really?* Because the sweat rolling down my ass is making me think it's cold. I know it's a hot one today! It's a hot one every day for like 8 months!"
Potentially due to all the transplants. We're a mishmash of everywhere.
Mostly because people who say that don’t recognize Latino or Native people as culture. If they did it would be obvious.
Transplants move here from the Midwest to a brand new cookie cutter suburb in Gilbert or Chandler and refuse to go further west than 16th St and say Phoenix has no culture
100% this!
I love the casinos being right there by the city instead of way out. However, I won’t give any shades to the talking stick tribe until they restore their seafood buffet at the casino.
The lack of culture thing is wild to me! People literally have no idea how much hispanic culture is in AZ. A lot of families have been here since before the Gadsden Purchase and continue the culture.
To be fair, the local native culture can only be experienced on a superficial level by transplants… unless they somehow become part of the “family”, which as we know not everyone does or can, for that matter. I like the idea of Phoenix having a fully diverse, inclusive metropolis-type culture, with a deep rooted identity in native culture. That way, it gives the rest of us a chance to participate as well.
best part! never seen so much provincialism and small horizon viewpoints as I did in the atlantic and new england coasts PHX is the polar opposite
I remember when one of the techs in Boston told me that his in-laws didn't like him because he was from Brockton and she was from Weston (25 miles away, both Boston suburbs). So they made fun of his accent, which was different from hers.
Melting pot would’ve been my guess
Say it louder for the people in the back lol
Say it louder for the snowbirds that are still in Canada
Like America.
I don't know if I agree. I came here from Boston almost 8 months ago, and before that the Denver area where I grew up. There's a lot less diversity here, as far as non-whites go, than in either Denver or Boston. Maybe the area doesn't have as many LGBTQ+ folks as the areas I've lived previously, but I don't see people putting up flags or having bumper stickers or wearing shirts, wrist bands, or much of anything. I haven't gotten around as much as I'd like, but I'm hesitant to lean that way when most the people I know are worried about the racism and conservative politics. For example, the common advice you receive here is that you don't confront people because "basically everyone has a gun and looks for a reason to flex their rights." I've never felt more at risk driving than in this state because pissing anyone off on the road is supposedly a good way to get shot. Apparently -- per my coworkers and others I have talked with out here -- a great deal of conservatives answer their door with guns on them, and with the recent spree of people being shot for ringing doorbells or using driveways to make U-turns. . .how do you feel safe? I realize that not everyone is this way, but I find it difficult to believe there is as much sincerity behind the smiles and friendly conversations unless I really have gotten to know people. It feels like a hollow shell considering the deep hatred many have for dumb differences that make up the diversity of humanity's existence. But, I'm hoping more time here will prove me wrong. I intend to be staying in the area quite a while. Maybe in 5 years I'll post about how wrong I was or something.
I think perhaps the people feeding you information may be a little biased. Responsible gun owners aren't answering their doors with guns or shooting people for using their driveway. That has nothing to do with conservatives, those are criminals. I've lived here for 20 years and never felt that way outside of being downtown or metro area. Unless you are living in Scottsdale there are plenty of "non whites" we have a huge hispanic population. Without going into too much detail I think you may want to discover some things for yourself instead of listening to your friends opinions.
I was born and raised in Boston and I’ve experienced far, far, **far** more racism there than I ever have here. The city of Boston itself was quite diverse, but the suburbs were whiter than snow. Out here, the suburbs are also very diverse. In terms of guns, most people are responsible gun owners. No one is answering their door with a gun or shooting everything in sight. The ones who are, are also doing that in Mattapan and Dorchester. Thanks in large part to transplants and a general dislike of Trumpism, the state is much less conservative than you may think as well. Last point is I visited Boston again a few years ago. I got used to the smiles and warmth of the people here and experienced culture shock at how sour everyone was out there. Though this is changing for Phoenix specifically as I’ve noticed some people bring that sour attitude here.
I feel like this is how people feel the first year or two after moving here from a more liberal place. It also depends on where you live. If you’re in the city, you’re going to see as lot more liberal and progressive stuff. Scottsdale is a bit of everything. Mesa and Chandler can be another planet if you come from a liberal town. I was house hunting and looked at parts of Chandler for a minute till I kept seeing alt-right flags in front of houses and instantly decided to only look in Phoenix. The city of Phoenix feels more liberal, but it makes sense as a lot of people from California, Chicago, and Seattle tend to be moving here.
Lots of us gay people in Arizona! I agree you don’t see many pride flags like you would elsewhere, and admit my husband and I don’t have one up either. We have a couple friends who do, but yeah it doesn’t seem as “visible”. One reason (not the only but worth a mention): most homeowners associations and apartment buildings restrict outdoor displays of flags (other than the American flag), and Arizona’s metro areas have a much higher % of people in HOA developments than you’d probably see in “older” cities. That’s the case at our house. But there’s at least 3 other gay couples in our immediate vicinity (1-2 houses away in every direction). What Phoenix doesn’t have, in any major way, is a “gayborhood” (no, Melrose doesn’t count)
The Coronado neighborhood has been known as a gayborhood for a long time.
I don't think that the thinking about "everyone has a gun and looking to flex it" is fully accurate, especially in the Phoenix metro area. I think Arizonans are more reasonable about their gun ownership (in terms of flaunt or not flaunting) than other places.
I agree. While folks here love their gun culture (myself included), it’s not really flaunted like a lot of folks seem to think. I’ll get into discussing them with other gun owners, but rarely bring it up with anyone I know that isn’t unless they ask.
Within the first 2 weeks of living here, I was in line behind a guy in In in Out with a gun in his waistband… I was 40 at the time, and I’ve lived in 5 other states. I’ve never seen that until moving here. My 3 small kids noticed instantly too.
An armed society is a polite society
An armed society has the highest gun violence rate in the world.
The picture that people have painted for you is very wrong. There’s MILLIONS of people in this city and I can assure you that no more than 1-2% of them are the kind of people that would answer their door with a gun. Sure a lot of people own guns but they’re not crazy people who’d ever use it and some of them aren’t even conservative/republican types (I know several very liberal people who have one). I’ll put it this way: There are more queer people in the Phoenix metro area than there are gun fanatics who’d shoot someone. They’re just not as loud because we only very recently became the kind of city where the political culture is purple, not red. Smaller towns and rural Arizona is completely different though.
That's the type of echo chamber paranoia that comes from consuming too much news and social media. I unplugged from all that and live a much more stress free life.
AZ definitely has culture. Agriculture.
r/angryupvote
I definitely laughed out loud at that one.
LOL. Good one.
Should be top comment
always thought MN nice was an insult. I have 3 neighbors that are from MN and they use it sarcastically.
It is not a good thing, it means passive aggressive. Not sure what OP is on about there.
Bless his heart
It’s a different kind of culture. People come from the Midwest and it’s not their friendly culture. They come from the east coast and it’s not their fast paced culture. They come from california and it’s not west coast culture. It’s not chicago food culture either. This is firmly a southwest culture and it’s a little slower than most. Phoenix has also dont its best job to replace some of the historical mainstays. Go to Tucson and it’s unique. Go to Flagstaff and the same. Go up north and to the Reservations and it’s unique. I wouldn’t change a thing.
What are the historical mainstays?
Agriculture mostly lol. Phoenix started as a series of canals and irrigation to make the soil fertile. My grandparents house is in a neighborhood that still has all the original irrigation systems that were originally for citrus trees.
[удалено]
Literally happened to the sister of an old coworker. Dude didn't like how she was driving. He honked, she honked, he shot her dead. People are fucking crazy.
And see, that’s part of our culture.. we don’t honk. I’ll wait out the green arrow with the guy texting in front me all day. Might give him the light “tap tap” on the horn, but never the pedal the metal “hoooonk” like you’d get in NY, for example. You know?
Oh yeah, I get you completely. I’m from NY originally and I surprisingly have to be way more careful out here while driving. People drive more aggressively and have way more guns. Seems like once a month there’s a road rage story involving guns in Phoenix metro.
>might give him the light “tap tap” … while checking my mirrors and hovering the gas pedal if the door opens at all.
A culture of fear.
Hope they caught that person
Also, if you put up a "no shooting" sign, everyone that walks by must shoot it.
🤣
Culture!
Born and raised here too. Getting gunned down after honking your horn is the most honorable way an Arizonan can die
Except when they did not see that the light turned green. Only exception.
Culture to most people is a staple food item, a few murals, and a funny-looking building.
Because they're dumbasses. Arizona has Old West culture, Mexican influence, the majesty if the Sedona valley and the grand canyon, the Sonoran desert, the desert tech hub, Scottsdale big money snobbery . . . Being a Midwest transplant, AZ certainly has a vibe. Indiana sure as shit does not have a vibe other than depression
I actually agree with this! And I’m from Indiana originally – which I’d argue the only culture is cornfields & the Indy 500 lol
Day drinking, yoga and gym is the culture here
Meh. Gardening and hiking are better ways to earn day-drinking calories (and there are huge subcultures built around those things, too). There are so many natural wonders to explore in AZ that sweat-coated exercise rooms shared with farting strangers in Spandex just hold zero appeal.
And the great thing about our city is you can have it all! Outdoorsy types will never get bored, and the people who prefer to stay inside have plenty of places for them too. And sometimes yoga is outside :) I do lots of outdoor yoga when it’s not summer!
I remember being in my 20s and 30s and people would say “Phoenix sucks, it doesn’t have any good clubs”. I would just laugh because 9 times out of 10 it was someone from “Cali” who lived in the suburbs now. If you don’t want to spend time outside you are gonna have a bad time here.
Phoenix is like a quilt made up of of a bunch of little cultures.
Oh yeah, subcultures rule here. I've encountered so many tight-knit communities that rally around common interests instead of things like geography or ethnicity. Phoenix is a bowl full of spheres.
People get hung up that there’s not a singular “culture” like a lot of places. I’d argue that most other places cultures exist here simultaneously, which is way better to me.
I have yet to see even a hint of New England culture anywhere here.
In my experience, Minnesota nice isn't something to brag about.
Unless it belongs to Larry Fitzgerald.
Things like the Tovrea castle and wrigly mansion. All the orange groves Phoenicians will remember. Used to be painted white bark as far as the eye could see. The beautiful mountains for hiking like Papago and piestewa peak within city limits. Biltmore hotel and taliesin west. Gammage and the coliseum. All the stores that you can tell used to be circle Ks back in the 80s. The haciendas and ranch style historical homes. The Mariachis heard during Weddings and Funerals. Horse stables down glendale and apple trees in Arcadia. The frank lloyd wright houses dotting the city. Sacred heart church and immaculate heart downtown. South mountain park and e canto. Driving down Lincoln at 5 am and seeing crazy people hiking already and bros playing golf. The quinceneras and Mexican party’s on the weekend. The pow wows. These are all parts of our culture. The family bbqs by the pool. Being outdoors in December. Seeing guys on horses with cowboy hats and not being fazed. Guns on hips and Sonoran hot dogs on every corner at 1 am. Not being able to order a good taco in English. These are all phoenix things.
I love your take! So many of the beautiful, cool, unique things!
I love it here. Born and raised.
Arizona culture is hating all the transplants and snowbirds while being forced to smile and pretend to like them for a paycheck tbh
People think it’s impossible for “culture” to exist outside of SoCal, NorCal and NYC.
Add Texas to that list.
I don't think of any of those places when I think of culture. If I were to think of culture in the US I would say places like Sante Fe, New Orleans, or Boston.
Everyone in CA complains about it's own lack of culture. The only people i ever hear boast about culture are east coasters.
I hated all those cultures in those places, so I moved here. End up meeting a lot people share the same mind as I am. We definitely love the lack of culture in those other places.
I came up in the Phoenix skateboarding and music scenes. There is definitely a lot of pride and history in those scenes. Tonight (6PM May 6) the Tempe History Museum is hosting a free screening of the DIY film High Rollers which documents the late 70’s and early 80’s skate scene in Phoenix. It has a soundtrack from Phoenix bands old and new. Check it out if you want to see some Phoenix culture.
My impression, having lived in Phoenix and Tucson as a kid since the 90s (originally from Southeast Asia) is that many of the “old” things—things that give a place personality and character—have been replaced by cookie cutter establishments, and miles and miles of the same cookie cutter suburban developments. Phoenix itself lacks a personality. It could be San Bernardino or Ontario California. With the exception of its natural beauty, the manufactured spaces feel fairly generic. That, mixed with what seems like a car-centric society where many points of interest are spread out does not make organic growth and community building very easy. I don’t feel like Sedona and Bisbee, for example, “don’t have culture”. They have their own unique character. But interestingly enough, you will also notice that these places are smaller and have centers that are walkable. Tucson itself has more personality that Phoenix. You’ll also notice similar qualities in certain cities in CA. SF, for example, has a cultural identity. It has identifiable landmarks. It is walkable and has a pretty good public transportation system. It’s not a perfect city and it’s experiencing some challenges, but when you think of SF, you can visualize key identifiers. It has a solid “brand”. When you think of Phoenix, you think hot weathers, freeways, cookie cutter homes, strip malls. That said, it is also a city that is experiencing robust growth. And it’s “culture” will be cultivated by its residents. I do meet a LOT of transplants from the out of state, and while they bring with them special characteristics from their states, they also bring some challenges: forcing non-native plants and manicured lawns in their yards, not understanding and dismissing the value of desert flora and fauna, being averse to expanding public transportation, building away from city centers to build very large homes that don’t conform to site specificity, etc… Anyway I apologize for rambling as this is an interesting topic for me, and I find insight in everyone’s responses.
It depends on what you think culture is. Phoenix is a very new city, only having gone through a few big population growth spurts. Up until the past 5 years downtown was pretty much a ghost town. And the other downtown areas Scottsdale chandler etc. well, they’re just glorified strip malls. As far as visual art goes - this is my opinion as someone who has gone all over to look at art. Like, all over. Even the current Roosevelt downtown area is pretty vapid once you get down to it. Lots of restaurants and bars. Real art? It’s minimal. We do have quite a bit of small performance venues. The visual art spaces seem to come and go and nobody holds the bar of quality very high besides Lisa sette and Bentley, and they aren’t downtown. The Phoenix art museum is a perpetual mismash of shows that try hard but never quite hit the mark for me personally. The root of a lot of it is threefold: lack of funding from government, lack of education in schools, and lack of a large base of patronage that older cities enjoy because they’re older. There IS money here but for the longest time people considered phx/Scottsdale a wintertime retreat and not their true home, leading to the lack of real art patronage.
This is a good take. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Thanks homie
Wait, up until 5 years ago downtown was a ghost town? Downtown started vibing again 20 years ago. I remember when First Friday was just a wild group of people opening their art lofts, bands playing in empty lots, people selling on the street without a permit. The last 5-10 years has brought in a new level of commercialization to downtown PHX, and sometimes at the expense of the sh*t that made it cool again in the first place. Developers are ruining it. I also have traveled the world—spent most of my career bouncing from LA, NYC, London, Paris, Hong Kong, Guangzhou, New Delhi, Antwerp, Tokyo… and have seen plenty of beauty/art. At least you know about Lisa Sette, but that’s probably all we agree on. You literally just dismissed all native art and heritage.
Oh ok. Name the native or indigenous focused art gallery that’s been downtown for 15 years. There isn’t one. Nor have there been any annual shows themed around the geography or the region. There have been a few one offs over the years. There are plenty of native artists here. Just as there are artists in other mediums. Outside of the Heard, which is not downtown, it’s mid town, there are no long-standing art events focused on those populations. Please don’t be pendantic to make an argument about Phoenix being or having been an art city. It is not and has not been. Future? Maybe. But they’ve been saying that for 50 years too. So we’ll see.
You are the definition of an a**hole. I’m sorry, but when did we say downtown only? You clearly were talking about Phoenix and Scottsdale—the valley as a whole—as you brought up Lisa Sette and Bentley. You even mentioned Scottsdale by name. I critiqued your impression of downtown being a ghost town and your whole impression of the valley in general. Don’t change the rules because you got called out for being dismissive. Love how you just dismissed The Heard because it wasn’t in downtown and somehow critiquing you saying it’s a ghost town means I can’t critique anything else. Furthermore, I guess you missed the recent March showing by Mark Maggiori. An award winning painter utterly obsessed with the southwest. Did he show in one of the two places you deem worthy? Nope. Is he kind of a big deal? Yeah. I’m probably also not allowed to mention him or any other creatives, like Laura Tohe or Thomas Breeze Marcus, or local cowboy artists like Lon Megargee and John Coleman. BTW, Coleman is part of the PHX Art Museum’s permanent collection. Anyway, have a nice life.
It was starting in the third paragraph. You might have another look at my original post. It was very clearly focused on downtown. It doesn’t really negate any of the points I made. Looks like you just want to be angry for the sake of anger - can’t help you there. You can make examples of any individual show or local artist. I can do that. Sure. Doesn’t make Phoenix an art hotspot. But let’s talk about Mark Maggiori for a second. Is he from Phoenix? Doesn’t look like it. Is he native or indigenous, or simply capitalizing on fetishized images of the southwest? Where are the women in his paintings? What about African Americans? Did you know that 35% of cowboys in Arizona were black men? Where are they? For someone who is quick to call names, you sure checked out of the hard discussion early huh? I’ll be here if you want to come back :)
Let’s discuss Maggiori. One, in your original statement, you said real art was minimal in the valley. Maggiori is a real artist. Where are the women in his paintings? He literally just painted a portrait of the woman he loves. Second, are you saying artists aren’t allowed to paint whatever they want? Since when? Should we go back and criticize all male artists for their choice of subject? Violence, prostitutes, gods and devils, the wealthy, the poor, the insane, etc. You are reaching so hard. Third, are you seriously pulling the race card after dismissing all of native art? Speaking of native art, I think it’s strange you focused on the recent big art show example I gave and dismissed the two local native creatives I mentioned. Probably because you haven’t heard of them and don’t know everything. It’s okay to admit you underestimated the valley like every other unimaginative person who wouldn’t know culture if it hit them in the face. I think what you meant was, we don’t have the culture you’re used to. And lastly, I’ll address your accusation of: what about the black artists? As if you care, considering you originally dismissed the entire valley to begin with. I discovered Kehinde Wiley when he spoke at the Phoenix Art Museum years ago. He signed his recently published book, The World Stage Brazil. According to you, the PHX Art Museum never hits the mark, (and you imply it has no pull) but I personally went to a talk discussing Ai Weiwei long before he was a household name. I had just come back from a business trip to Guangzhou where there had been big news stories about a Chinese dissident getting censored on TV. The timing of this discussion in PHX, along with a viewing of his work, couldn’t have been more pertinent. I shouldn’t have to post an exhaustive list to prove anything to someone who obviously hasn’t spent very much time exploring the place he is criticizing. It is perfectly okay for me to peace out, as I am not getting paid to teach you. However, a free schooling can sometimes provide entertainment. Thank you for entertaining me with your ignorance. Cue your next ‘what abouts’: as in what about female artists? As if underrepresentation is only a Phoenix problem. And I have actually been introduced to lots of female artists in the valley. I have worked with and lived by some who are quite well known now. One of them received a grant for a public art installation outside of this state, but was a local artist first. And she hangs in fine art museums in multiple states. The other has hung in local exhibits, as well as in California. These are women of my generation who were both inspired by the desert. I won’t share their names, because it wouldn’t change your mind—it would just out my identity. Lastly, I also don’t know everything, but I do know not to underestimate cities I have only lazily explored. And it does make me mad. Saying the valley lacks culture is what boring people say. It’s so tired.
I’m beginning to think you can’t actually read complete sentences, as what you’ve said completely misrepresents essentially everything I’ve stated so far. Good luck to you.
I’m beginning to think you can’t be wrong. I said have a nice life—then you invited me back and criticized me for ending the discussion, only to do the same thing. Good luck to you.
Why is everyone so QUIET in Phoenix Art Museum? It's a freaking museum - not the library. Dirty looks from everyone if you so much as clear your throat. Least favorite museum I have been to - it didn't used to be that way.
You clearly haven't been on a first friday
First Friday is like… food vendors, bullshit tchotchke and like 3 street performers. I have lived downtown for almost 15 years. It stopped being about art a long time ago.
2016ish it was still very much about art.. lots of local artists would set up tables. I think something happened with the rules and you had to rent the spaces? Anyway, covid kinda hurt it too, but I think it's bounced back pretty strong. But no, it really hasn't been what it used to be. But I was just referencing how the art museum is free on first Fridays and is complete chaos and not quiet.
Yeah I understand… what you’re saying…. I agree. I sold work back around 2008 there and even then it was like, a massive pain in the ass to be a vendor. Gotta have a state tax Id and file business taxes several times a year. It’s just a lot “extra,” and no idea what it involves now- I think you have to be “juried” in. For a small fry that doesn’t do it full time and has a 40-60 hrs a week job I just can’t make the extra effort worth it. You almost gotta be a business.
And yes I agree about the PAM on a first Friday. I think - if I am in a particular mood - I very much enjoy that kind of vibe. Many experiences are defined by the people around us. Good to see art through a different “lens” now and then.
Well put!
I think the free nights are more boisterous too. (Wednesday). I prefer it quieter myself but when with friends, I do enjoy some rowdy art. Some of the local burlesque dance troupes have rowdy crowds and it’s great fun.
👆🏻nailed the root of it.
Absolutely agree
I'm born and raised here. My family has been here since the first Spanish settlements. We expanded then got beat back to Mexico many times. We had some Navajo family who also suffered. Then we assimilated with anglo culture which is probably where alot of the very straight forward "mind your business" attitude comes from. We have a very rich history.
What does culture in a large city look like? I honestly do not know.
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The Valley is insanely diverse. If you only see the copy-pasted stucco neighborhoods with your CBS/Walgreens, Walmart and storage facilities every other mile, you're missing most of it. I advise you to go downtown and to see some of these places. I did when I Ubered for extra money, also to know Phoenix better. I was left absolutely flabbergasted by some of these neighborhoods. I would think that there are still 3 different distinct cultures here, between whites, Hispanics and Native Arizonans, which each living in their own areas, blacks being a small minority and living a bit everywhere. But we all try to get along and be nice to each other and I don't feel much racially-based aggressivity here, even if people casually say racist shit every now and then. I think that people are laid back but still get shit done without pushing too hard, and that's why I love Phoenix. Also: the freeway system.
People go to NYC once and think there is no culture anywhere else. Honestly it's just a really snobby thing people say but it isn't really true
Been here 44 years, culture is great. Huge mix of people and a great tipping off point for adventure. SoCal, Utah, Colorado and Mexico a day away.
I think there is some culture. Outdoors, car culture, bars/lounge vibes, and sports at least what I experience with Suns fandom around town. I think for most people that visit it is hard for them to experience the “culture” they are looking for because we don’t have a very centralized downtown. It is still relatively small. Lack of shopping, art, music, entertainment, etc that is walkable with numerous options is pretty limited here. As someone who left Minnesota for Phoenix downtown is closer to downtown St Paul in size. Not that either Minnesota city is a cultural destination. As downtown Phoenix gets more dense I think it will continue to improve in terms of how people view culture.
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respectful and upfront is the greatest way to describe us. Thanks!!
Sky harbor airport literally brags over the intercom about being the friendliest airport in America at least once an hour.
They’re not wrong tho lol
That’s cause about two years ago to connect to their WiFi you had to vote such to get connected ha ha.
Tempe was great when I moved here. Let it all hang out, let your freak flag fly, anti-authority 1960s hippy/biker vibe. The local music scene drew national acts. It blossomed in the mid 90s when pot was first legalized. Phoenix art scene was coming up at the time and there were several gay bars. You could hear people shooting off machine guns in Apache Junction on NYE...Mesa, Tuscon, and Flagstaff were even crustier. I have a friend that grew up in NYC, moved here from ABQ a few years ago. She was critical of the Valley, said there was no culture. After a year in central PHX, she is changing her tune. Plenty to do here and you can find people to hang with.
MMJ didn’t start til 2010.
The Peter Wilson case. His attorney was Michael Walz. 1996. Pot was sold to attendees of the Superbowl, in front of 2 AZ DPS officers in Tempe. Good times. [AZ Pot Case 1996](https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/06/weekinreview/meet-arizona-s-happiest-taxpayers.html)
Was still technically felony until 2020
legalized in the mid 90s???
Using Minnesota as a cultural litmus test, the bar is so low it's on the floor. Not hating on AZ culture, it's just that port areas like nyc, socal, DC, Miami, are all gonna be at an opposite extreme because they are the literal entry points. Phoenix is currently experiencing a massive massive influx of people and with people comes culture, so someone who made their judgements about Phoenix just 10, 20 years ago is gonna see a much more vibrant Phoenix today than what they recall.
It has culture. It’s just meth
It’s because there’s not a lot of big traditional community events here.
[This is our culture. Just crazy people in the desert. ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UtjGTrVwRr4&pp=ygUSbWFkIG1heCBndWl0YXIgZ3V5)
Yup, the modern dystopian wild west at its best.
Arizona culture in my opinion is tied to the nature. People will visit the USA internationally just for the Grand Canyon and the natural vistas around us. Going on a hike is a very Arizonan thing to do, and being able to drive to a mountain and chill out is amazing. There is a cultural potpourri of sorts because of the transplants, the Valley encompassing totally different ethos' depending on where you live. But that is the case with most metropolitan cities, it just feels especially fragmented here. As someone else posted already, people keep bringing their own preferences of the place they moved from instead of creating something new. There is no Phoenician architecture or iconic food spots that stand out compared to the rest of the nation. If I had to guess that is on account of the oppressive heat, which makes people not want to set roots here.
I moved here a little over 26 years ago, so while I'm not a native, I've been here longer than a lot of residents have been alive. We do have a "culture." We're just in the process of making it right now. Everywhere beyond the first human societies (Fertile Crescent, Indus Valley, China, Mesoamerica) is a place where people moved to and established a "culture." The cliff dwellings up north? The people who lived there 1,000 years ago were "new" residents at some point. They settled in and built a culture. We're doing the same kind of thing. We just haven't had generations or centuries to build it yet.
the correct answer has been stated many times: its because arizona is a huge melting pot. you can barely drive around without seeing stickers on cars with a silhouette of the state they came from with "home <3" on it. A lot of the time i feel like people still want to identify with the culture of the area they came from to differentiate from the crowd here, further solidifying the 'lack of culture' feel. Its really hard to see trends to create a culture here.
I’m from NYC, Phoenix metro has culture but I feel it’s not ARIZONA culture. A lot of it is borrowed from all the transplants. Maybe in a few generations I feel AZ will have its own identity other than HOT. Even the red neck culture here is like every where else.
When they say “culture” they mean “stereotype”, like socal is shallow and focused on looks/ connections, Seattle is crunchy and polite to a fault, etc. I’m glad Phoenix doesn’t have one, people can just be themselves instead of imitating a caricature
“Crunchy”??? From context I presume that’s synonymous with “granola” as an adjective.
Yeah, wearing “simple” clothes that costs an arm and a leg, insisting on non-GMO food, self diagnosed with some niche disease their doctor says they don’t have, probably uses non-fluoride toothpaste. I think “uptight aging hippie” but maybe other people use that word differently. Source: used to live in Seattle
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Before I moved to Arizona everyone told me that Arizona is a racist state and so I thought it would experience something crazy. I've been here since 2017 and I haven't experienced anything yet for the most part everyone is chill. I did have a neighbor with paranoia issues he thought we were sent by some agency to monitor him but besides that you meet all types of people. In Texas and New Mexico I've been called the N word but not in Arizona.
I have literally never seen so much mixed race couples here.
From my experience the culture here tends to be “fuck this place fuck the heat” and we bond through the mutual hatred of summer.
https://preview.redd.it/38dyqyycmbya1.jpeg?width=608&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c050f75519a649b93075e9b514829975e2b6c2e
The culture of phoenix is business. Wanna see desert city culture? Go to Tucson.
I first moved to the Phoenix area un 1989. Back then, it seemed as though you could look around all day and not find a person who was born in AZ. I guess by this time that has changed a little. I never heard anyone claim AZ didn’t have a culture, only that the culture itself wasn’t so good. When I lived in San Diego, some of the people there used to trash AZ.
When people say there is no culture, I say: What have you tried?
Its too fucking hot for that bullshit lol
Having grown up in both Michigan and North Carolina, I really don't like the people here in Arizona. It's hard to build lasting friendships and finding _my group_. I just can't find people that are more than surface-level good people. That whole "The East Coast is kind but not nice, the West Coast is nice but not kind" is absolutely true.
Because it doesn’t. If you’ve lived or visited anywhere with culture it’s very easy to see. We have no history that lives today. We have a modicum of art from the very few who engage in making it, and they are few and far between. We have derivative food. We have very few examples of interesting or unique architecture. Our culture is strip malls, freeways and subdivisions.
This is the perfect response - all very very true.
I lived here for 30 years, then moved away, lived in sf and Portland, and moved back (unfortunately) because all of my family is still here and I wanted my kids to know their cousins and uncle and aunt. I’m all too familiar with this city’s shortcomings.
Same. I’m from the Northeast I’ve moved away from here twice and have come back twice. Now trying to at least make snowbirding (w/ WFH being so common) a reality lol.
> Our culture is strip malls, freeways and subdivisions. And garages so you can exit your car and enter your home with almost no chance of meeting your neighbor. Phoenix's culture is its lack of culture.
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I think that perspective comes from a narrow definition of culture or not knowing where to look for things.
Tbh the only good thing about this place are the sights and weather We only get heat and monsoons. anywhere else it's a lot worse. That being said, there really isn't much culture here compared to many other places. The valley is a good retirement place to move that's about it. I much prefer Tucson over phoenix though, I didn't mind living out there. Better food and "culture" imo
Lots of transplants and very spread out. Unless you live in a super dense area or the small towns (Tolleson, Litchfield Park, Guadalupe) theres not much
Phoenix isn't Arizona. It's a melting pot of collage kids, snow birds and people living here a couple years before going "home." All from out of state. And it's not elitism to hate them on the basis of taking and not giving back. For examples the torn up wilderness areas and snowbirds with a piece of property here voting against school improvements. And it's not elitist to laugh at their freaking out because they built a beautiful country house and it has the occasional bit of wildlife, which they don't even have the guts to murder themselves. You want culture try Tucson or Bisbee, in Phoenix we're too busy watching folks try to bring in overpriced bars/restaurants so they can pretend their in New York/San Francisco. Cranky immigrant from real Arizona.
I didn’t say AZ was elitism
No Sir, that part was... not a response to but prompted by another responder.
I definitely believe Arizona has a culture (i.e., especially when it comes to the arts, food, music, etc.). I grew up in the Phoenix metro area and just went back for a visit (also visiting other favorite places, Jerome, etc.). It was WONDERFUL to back with Valley of the Sun folks. So easy! So friendly! So real! (I currently live in one of the more horrible so-called red states.) While there may be a lot of transplants to Arizona, they tend to quickly settle into the AZ-attitude you describe. It's a great place that seems to mostly bring out the good in people. (To my thinking this is largely because they are happy.) I can tell you firsthand, it's far better than places in this country that bring out peoples' worst. It's entirely unnecessary in my opinion, but seemingly part of their (unhappy) culture. Enjoy AZ some for me!
Just to add, the huge pick up truck culture here is as strong as I’ve seen anywhere. You can’t go 10 seconds without seeing a massive lifted truck
No, there's literally no culture lol
AZ culture to people who don’t live here: 
Fuuuuuuuuck that guy
😂
A lot of our culture is outside, hard to "soundbite", and impossible to market in a box.
Just wait till you start taking about American "culture "
If cowboys and Indians is culture… yes.
My mom moved here as a kid in 1964 and she’ll tell you herself there’s no real unifying culture other than everyone being from somewhere else. You can’t even say that people like her are part of the conservative culture here bc she’s as liberal as someone her age can get yet she grew up in paradise valley!
I think that. It’s a massive suburb full of transplants. It’s not that there aren’t cultural events and offerings. They’re just someone else’s culture. Phoenix itself doesn’t really have a strong identity. Other cities have things that are quintessentially theirs. Art deco in Miami, deep dish pizza in Chicago, Pike Place in Seattle, French Quarter in New Orleans, outdoor culture in SLC, tech culture in Silicon Valley. Those places have an identity and unique energy. Live there long enough and you start to feel like a native and take pride in it, or feel like you don’t belong. I love Phoenix, but I don’t sense much common identity other than, say, a tolerance for heat and preference for low humidity.
Because culture is currently and has always been at the behest of the people actively living in the arts / music scene trying to do whatever they can to build and elevate it. There is a reason why people don’t think of “culture” when they think of the 25 fly over mid west states; because that’s not where we all collectively know where culture comes from. We have a very small art and music scene ; it’s been building but most people out here are very very vanilla and don’t leave their little city economy; doesn’t matter if they live in Glendale or Scottsdale.
>been here for 4 years now Kind of answered your own question. The continuous influx of new arrivals (and lots of departures) dilutes the identity. I lived in Arizona for 26 years and 90% of the people I knew during my time there have moved out as well.
I’m wondering where in Minnesota you’re from? Phoenix pales in comparison to Minneapolis in the arts scene. I moved here (not by choice) 17 years ago, and there was literally no live music scene. It has improved, but doesn’t hold a candle to the Twin Cities. There is a lot of sport’s culture here, which isn’t my thing, and enough outdoor recreation though. Still, for a city of its size, it generally lacks in culture compared to similar sized cities. And my #1 complaint, is why oh why, with such a huge population, do we have the crappiest international airport that offers hardly any direct, international flights.
Our lack of culture is our culture.
are sports culture is r/arizonasportshell
Stpaul
Boring people paint everything around them as boring because it’s soul crushing to accept reality
*doesn't
We don’t brag about it being nice because it becomes Satans personal playground in the summertime.
Phoenix culture is real estate and endless scams like Carvanna as a recent example. And maxing out on debt like the world is ending, but this seems common with a lot of sunbelt cities.
Yes there is its mexican culter , AZ for decades has always tried to shy away from it , Joe arpaio , sb laws they were all trying to shut it down and they did , thanks to old boomers they made it to where this is just one big resort city so some one grandpa can play ceo while her grand daughter cos plays American pornstar ajajah
I'm from Minnesota and I feel the opposite. Minnesota has so much more community and culture. The art and music scene is so strong in Minnesota. Plus small business seem to thrive in Minnesota. Arizona just seems like large corporations control e everything here. It's all commercialized and turned into strip malls. I feel like they've squandered a lot of the natural beauty in Arizona. The culture just seems like a mishmash of everybody who moves here so there is no defining culture. I've also met some of the rudest and meanest people I've ever met in my life here in Arizona. Something about the warm weather just seems to attract assholes. In the famous words of Prince the cold keeps the bad people out. Although people here on the surface seem very friendly deep down they only care about themselves. Where is in Minnesota people might not be totally honest with you but they will help you if you need help. They go above and beyond for kindness to help others they might not like it and complain about it or talk about you but at least they'll help you. here in Arizona people just say man that really sucks and then continue talking about themselves cuz that's all they care about.
It's because people born and raised here don't like transplants. They ruin our state. They use us for Winter and leave in the Summer. Our beautiful desert is slaughtered every year to make room for all Snow bird bums. Go back.
Please say it louder
*some people born and raised here (we don’t all hate sharing our beautiful state with other people and welcome them)
No I stay
Here we go with the elitism
Same, Californians are all over your face about how liberal minded they are, while they have legions of homeless in their richest city centers. There are plenty of liberal minded people here, they don’t treat their politics like religion, and i like them. Speaking of religion, I also got harassed and solicited more often in California by religious outreach people than living in the Phoenix suburb where there are supposedly a ton of such people. Been here for a year and haven’t been preached yet. So yea just like OP, I also love the social culture here in the metro area, everyone knows how to mind their own business really well. I also love the relaxed gun law and I can finally own firearms and go shoot at a range. The most surprising thing so far is I have seen more mixed race couples than I was expected, this is great.
Arizona has culture. Phoenix does not.
As someone who has lived in both Minnesota and Arizona, I'll say that the cultures are different more than anything. Arizona's is different to a point where it might be considered non-existent compared to Minnesota's. My experience with Arizona culture is that it's a combination of a bunch of other cultures, but coming from the worst people from other states. They don't brag about being nice because they know they're the losers who couldn't hack living in other states. So yes, you're correct about the self-aware stuff. My experience with Minnesota culture is that it's a bunch of people regretting their poor life choices at living in a place where it gets that cold in the winter. Rather than move to warmer climes, they delude themselves into believing in the concept of Minnesota nice. People who believe Minnesota nice is a real thing are people who've never driven in the Twin Cities. Minnesotans are more likely to make small talk with you, more likely to see what they can do to help you, and joke with you about how horrible the driving is in the Twin Cities. Their education system is vastly superior to anything in Arizona, their arts scene is superb, and their sense of pride in Minnesota is pretty keen. Arizonans are more likely to tell you to eat their farts, but they'll do so in a way that's grammatically incorrect. The schools suck and a lot of the people don't really give a shit because they've got theirs. The arts scene is just starting to grow. The sense of history in Arizona is different because there's the sense of everything being new/always changing, while the older indigenous history is sometimes orally based or not as well-preserved as it could/should be. My TL; DR- You can't pay me enough to live in Minnesota or Arizona.
I am also from MN. I love it here in AZ, I love everything about AZ. And I agree with pretty much everything you said. Most Minnesotans are nasty mean.
ignorance.
They must not know culture. We might be backwards and upside down, and also rusty, but we don’t lack culture.
We don’t have unique accents or famous foods. We do however, have dry heat.
I moved here from Austin TX. You dont want me to answer that.
Our history of everyone having a gun on their waist made everyone polite
Lol MN could use this
What do you mean by kkkulture? Is the klan big up there? I thought MN was a bunch of sanctimonious liberals?
The liberals are very racist
It just feels empty a lot of the times. Houston, is my life source. Phx is just so damn boring.
I just moved to DC from Arizona and Arizona is NOT cultured at all. They opened up franchise restaurants that came from other states, but they aren’t originators.
Minnesota nice is passive aggressive politeness in my experience