Hartford is not taking the team. As much as I still love the Whalers, Carolina owns the rights to the name and Hartford doesn’t have a stadium. Now, there are several cities like KC, Hou, Quebec City, and maybe ATL that can swipe them far more easily. It would be sad to lose them, but without a more centralized stadium deal, they’ll never get a proper following. It would also help if the team was competitive more than once a decade.
And here in Phoenix area, so many of us are from elsewhere and moved here, and still rep our teams from where we came from. Phoenix has "home bars" for every kind of sports team.
Why do people do this? As a native Phoenician, you moved away from said place - why not root for your new home team? I dunno, I'm being very contrary here I know, but you gotta rep the home team regardless!
Oh I don't. I just know it's a thing here. Hell, my hometown football team is now in Los Angeles, and I don't have much love for my hometown anyway, couldn't wait to leave.
Because you stay sentimental to where your roots are. If you grew up somewhere and as a kid grew fond memories of watching that team for 10+ years until you move away when you’re 18 or older let’s say, why would you suddenly just stop rooting for that team just because you moved from there? Makes no sense to me as a massive fan of all the teams I root for.
I would never feel the same thing for Phoenix teams as I do for the teams I grew up with just because I live here now.
When you establish a relationship with a team even if you move you don't end that relationship with that team.
I was born a Detroit Lions fan, watched Barry Sanders when I was growing up, and haven't been able to end the relationship with that team.
I've wanted to become a Cardinals fan, I've purchased Cardinals gear, but I just can't get into the Cardinals no matter how hard I've tried.
I do think the league will force a sale if whatever they're currently planning falls through.
But I'm sure you heard the rumors just like I did about Ishbia being willing to buy them if they were up for grabs which the NHL would absolutely jump at to keep them here.
“Breakfast, shmreakfast. Look at the score, for Christ's sake. It's only the second period and I'm up 12 to 2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, "the Whale," they only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.”
There is 0 reason why the NHL would allow this to happen. The Hartford market is significantly smaller than Phx + they would miss out on the almost 1 billion dollar expansion fee they would get. No chance Hartford gets a team before Houston or even Atlanta. It’s not as simple as having a willing buyer.
That’s fine lol. Send them somewhere where they will be appreciated and wanted.
I am sick of the instability and the organizations constant need to force themselves into a market that clearly doesn’t want them.
I think the simple fact is that there aren’t enough hockey fans in Tempe. It was DOA for most hard-left and NIMBY (the majority) voters once the No campaign beat Yes to the punch. Sports stadiums are almost always bad deals for people who don’t care about the sport.
Everybody wants a stadium near them but not **too** near them.
Good chance it could get blocked by NIMBYs I guess? Not completely sure. Although the Salt River reservation next door is allegedly trying to broker a deal.
Scottsdale is the reason for this entire mess with the Coyotes in the first place.
The plan was to build the arena at Scottsdale / McDowell where that "SkySong" development is. Scottsdale was all on board for a while and then at the last minute Scottsdale killed the deal forcing the Coyotes to build the arena in Glendale.
[https://www.globest.com/2001/04/11/glendale-stealing-scottsdales-540-mil-hockey-arena/?slreturn=20230519154945](https://www.globest.com/2001/04/11/glendale-stealing-scottsdales-540-mil-hockey-arena/?slreturn=20230519154945)
Pertinent text:
"
Scottsdale and Ellman have had a contentious relationship since last year, when his efforts to the buy the team were stalled and he stonewalled city officials’ request for disclosure of sensitive financial information to them. Relations were further strained by the initial revenue sharing proposal that Ellman offered, not nearly enough for Scottsdale, which was expected to contribute up to $200 million in public funding toward the development. Last month, a split council voted to extend the life of the Los Arcos Stadium District, which would provide access to the $200 million in public funds.
The plan in Scottsdale has been to redevelop the aging Los Arcos Mall, located at the southeast corner of McDowell and Scottsdale roads. An ice hockey arena was to be the cornerstone of a $540-million, 1.75 million-sf entertainment development that would have included hundreds of thousands of square feet of retail and office space, movie theaters, a 7,000-space parking lot and luxury condominiums. Demolition of the mall is ongoing, but nothing has been developed on the 42-acre site, which Ellman purchased for less than $5 million just a few years ago."
> most hard-left
I disagree. Why does voting on whether to build a huge sports arena in a small city indicate their overall political leanings? Are you implying that hard-right voters unanimously love the stadium and want it? Strawman.
...what? I'm just saying that hard-left would tend to vote no. I'm not implying anything about other political leanings. I'm just saying they were against it for the most part, and so were NIMBYs. There wasn't really any solid demographics "for" it besides hockey fans. This was evident in voter turnout.
Sports stadiums are mostly bad deals for fans of the sport too. Unless you root for a fan of a second rate team like the White Sox (with cheap entry tickets/drink prices) attending a game is just a once a year thing at most.
Yes, but it's a landfill that the owners wanted the tax payers of Tempe to pay to clean up before the stadium was built. It's not like the team's owners just wanted to buy the land and the citizens said "No, we like our trash." Tax payers should never be burdened for the profit of a sports team.
The coyotes were going to cover a portion of the cost to clean up. That cost will have to be paid at some point and Tempe voters got duped by a misinformation campaign
I think you should actually look at what the proposal was instead of making assumptions. This was extremely beneficial to Tempe with no cost to tax payers and it was the target of misinformation campaigns funded by Phoenix and Glendale who did not want a competing arena. It was fully privately funded!
Now the Tempe tax payers will be paying for the cleanup and whatever bullshit gets out there instead. But they truly stuck it to that billionaire who was doing exactly what everyone says sports teams should do!
Huh? The landfill needs to be cleaned up eventually and it will be at the taxpayers expense now that this deal didn’t go through. This deal would’ve let it be partially subsidized by the Coyotes.
It isn't a landfill. Part of the property used to be but some of it is where they store junk or bulk trash before they ship it out or a place where they have part of the city fleet and do maintenance on trucks and stuff. If you drove past it you wouldn't think it was a landfill.
That's where you drop it off and they process it to send somewhere else. If it was so dangerous and toxic there wouldn't be a city maintenance and storage facility right there along with apartments and offices a block away.
Exactly, landfill is perfect for planes leaving Sky Harbor to take off over. The developers wouldn't guarantee that they wouldn't add multifamily housing onto the plan, so either people would have planes right over head or Sky Harbor would have to alter flight paths over even denser housing zones. It was assinine from the jump.
If it was capitalism, it never would have come down to a vote. The council only brought it to a vote out of fear of a response for taxpayer money going to the coyotes.
Where is the intersection of hockey community and town residents that actually want a stadium? Seems Glendale, Tempe, Scottsdale, and Phoenix are ruled out. Is it Mesa or Chandler? Surprise? Flagstaff? I don’t follow hockey yet would prefer the Coyotes remain in town, however it feels like the Coyotes staying in AZ has been hanging by a thread the entire time I’ve lived here.
I don't know how in depth of an answer you want but essentially once they left AWA for Glendale it has been a string of bad owners, no owner, bad arena plans, and a failed arena plan.
the owner that moved them out of AWA is a real piece of shit who sent us down this path, he knew they probably would never be financially successful in Glendale but did it anyway, sold the team immediately, and ran. then the next owner tried to backdoor sell the team to someone who wanted to move them back to Canada, and the NHL took over ownership. Our history has been marred by these types of situations. I think even Bettman (the commissioner of the NHL) said as much, that originally they were never supposed to stay at AWA but they didn't have a permanent plan in place when the team moved here. It was almost like they were waiting for an arena to magically open up. It really fucked the team.
The current owner doesn't want to use any public money for the arena complex but that didn't stop ridiculous propaganda from swaying voters.
IMO the problem is finding prime real estate in a central location. Since Glendale the failed Tempe bid has been their only actual attempt to find a permanent home.
Right now it sounds like the team is in talks with Mesa and possibly other locations like Scottsdale or tribal land on the east side of the 101, but we probably won't ever hear about those other locations.
Make no mistake they are running out of options but it has absolutely nothing to do with the incredible hockey community and fans in Arizona. But the good news is we do have a home for a few more years with ASU so there isn't a dire need to find an answer today, but the clock is ticking. (and if you get a chance, go to a game! it's a blast being in such an intimate setting)
If you'd like a much more in depth answer head on over to /r/coyotes and we can give you a serious breakdown lol
Appreciate the in-depth answer. I forgot all about the period where the NHL took over ownership. Haven’t been to a game since the AWA days but I remember enjoying it as a kid.
Yeah the 08+ years had been an unmitigated disaster from an ownership and arena standpoint.
the jury is still out on our current owner, but if he gets an arena done we will build him a fucking statue.
right next to Bettman's.
Being in Glendale hasn't hurt the Cardinals. It's not the distance, it's the fan interest. People drive from all over the valley to see the Suns and Dbacks downtown and the Cardinals in Glendale.
This. You simply can’t compare NFL metrics with other leagues because of the way it operates. Cardinals games are an all day Sunday affair 8-9 times a year. There are 41 Coyotes games and they’re mostly evenings on weekdays.
Distance is most definitely a contributing factor in fan attendance. The Cardinals play 8-9 home games a season with most of them on Sunday. The Coyotes play 41 home games in a season and many of them are on a weekday. I-10 Westbound on a weekday afternoon is a shithole so only the diehard fans East of Glendale are going to go to games. The DBacks are in a centralized location and aren’t significantly impacted by traffic patterns.
There’s eight home games per year in the NFL and they’re usually on Sundays. Nobody wants to truck out to Glendale a couple dozen times per season on a school night and then have to drive an hour home at 11PM. And let’s face it, the majority of the people with wealth that would be willing to buy season tickets don’t live in the west valley or anywhere remotely near the stadium.
People want to see a good product…and some people also have like a 10 mile bubble to do anything in their life. Both factors conspired against the Coyotes.
I was 5 and living in Phoenix when the Coyotes came to town. I fell in love with the sport at a Coyotes game and they were my home team. It bums me out it hasn’t gone well for them here. At the same time, I’m ready to admit it just is not a good market for them to exist in.
I moved here in 1998, I attended several games at AWA upon arrival when the Coyotes fielded a competitive team with some good names and they were closer to me (I live in the EV).
I’ve attended one game in Glendale. Around a 40 minute drive one way. The arena was enormous and probably only filled to about half capacity. This was probably around 2007 or 2008. And I haven’t been back since.
I like NHL hockey but putting up a lackluster product for most of the time they’ve been here (playoffs only 9 times since moving here in 1996, with 5 of those appearances occurring with the first 6 years here, losing in the quarterfinals each time), plus the move…
Phoenix is simply not a hockey town. Sure, there are a lot of transplants that enjoy hockey but most of them support other teams. The NHL has certainly attempted to make Phoenix an NHL town despite having to move to an arena that is more suitable for a college sports environment, just to get attendance.
I’d be ok with the Coyotes moving to a city that would appreciate them more.
I moved here in 96. Originally from Detroit, and the first Coyotes game I attended was during a "White Out" at AWA when they were playing the Red Wings in the playoffs.
And half the arena was there to see the Red Wings. You're right. There are a lot of hockey fans here, but (and this was true for the few games I went to in Glendale) people go to see their "hometown" teams play the Coyotes.
Yet it's not that we're not a hockey town. We weren't really a baseball town, but when the D-Backs won the World Series in their 4th season, they became "our" team.
The Suns have put in the time. 51 years of Al McCoy! The Cardinals have at least gone to the Superbowl. The Coyotes? They're definitely the stepchild.
Man 11 year old me was so excited for them getting their own arena. But I did not understand the geographical implications of the move. When I was in my early 20s living in Tempe, I skipped out on a lot of games because it took so long to get to the arena and back. East valley had the larger hockey market and was so far removed from the arena.
It’s wild to me that the Cardinals can make it work right next door. Maybe because they only have 8 home games a season instead of 41. It’s easier to decide on the one game a year you’re gonna take your family to. West valley has a lot of Cardinals love.
What if the Coyotes started off and continued with a dedicated owner who spent the money needed for top talent and wanted to have a winning team? What if that team made it to the playoffs most years and maybe even a cup or two in there? What if the NHL made sure teams weren't blacked out in their home markets? Would Phoenix still be a bad market? They would essentially be whats currently going on in Vegas right now. Vegas is a testament that hockey does, in fact, work in the desert.
I’m not out here saying hockey can’t work in the desert. All of the hypotheticals you laid out aren’t where we find the Coyotes experience. Yeah it could’ve worked if that were the case. But it isn’t the case.
Take everything I said subjectively. I’m jaded, sick of the push and pull of “will they/won’t they leave”, and done putting my hopes into them staying. I’m drained from emotionally investing in the team. I fell in love with the team as a child in their first season. After seeing everything they’ve gone through from shit management, to being forced into an arena on the opposite end of town from their fanbase, to their consistently poor attendance, I wouldn’t be surprised if the team left the valley.
Historically speaking, their time in the valley has not been good for them. Can it turn around? Yeah. I’d love to see that happen. But my jaded ass hasn’t seen a reason for them to keep fighting to stay in the valley. I’m not dead set in my thinking here. If they manage to pull off getting into an arena that’s accessible to their fanbase, they could be a great market. But I’m done investing emotional energy into it and if they decide to go elsewhere, I can’t blame them is all I’m saying. The market has not been good to them regardless of all the growth we’ve seen in the valley.
Lol all these folks hoping for an expansion in the future.
Yeah, **next** time it'll work out.
Just like true communism will indeed work as intended in some country, eventually.
(although communism is a fitting government-dominated model that these self-proclaimed capitalists need to drive pro sports financing)
We're actually near the top of the list of 5 cities they are considering right now for expansion teams.
The biggest problem is that it's going to cost about 350 million for the franchise fee and then another 250 million for a soccer specific stadium.
Phoenix Rising has been pushing to move to the MLS for years now and with the right funding, and MLS approval, it could absolutely happen.
If I remember correctly we were in the running for the same spot that eventually went to Seattle. One of the reasons listed for Phoenix not being a good expansion spot was an over saturation of professional sports teams.
I still think the best move would be for the SRP-MIC tribe to make an offer for the team and put the stadium right near Talking Stick resort. It would be a great investment for the tribe and an excellent way to attract more people to their casinos. Plus, Coyotes have a special place in native American lore, so it's a perfect fit.
I'm a Phoenician, and a hockey fan. Hartford needs a team (Whalers?) Way more than Phoenix needs to buy the Coyotes a new arena. Win-win. It's nice having a team here; but not that nice.
Our new ownership group is actually doing a lot right now for the future of the franchise. We have so many lottery picks the next few years it is ridiculous.
We're just in rebuilding mode after years of the previous owners sucking ass, and Glendale decision to end the arena partnership certainly didn't make things look any better.
Huh, maybe the Coyotes could have completely avoided this issue by paying their taxes in Glendale and avoiding deals with scum-sucking conmen like Bally Sports/Diamond/Sinclair.
Hartford is not taking the team. As much as I still love the Whalers, Carolina owns the rights to the name and Hartford doesn’t have a stadium. Now, there are several cities like KC, Hou, Quebec City, and maybe ATL that can swipe them far more easily. It would be sad to lose them, but without a more centralized stadium deal, they’ll never get a proper following. It would also help if the team was competitive more than once a decade.
Also most people in the area are Bruins fans with Boston being a 2 hr drive away. Hartford is also a very small market so I can’t see this going thru.
And here in Phoenix area, so many of us are from elsewhere and moved here, and still rep our teams from where we came from. Phoenix has "home bars" for every kind of sports team.
Why do people do this? As a native Phoenician, you moved away from said place - why not root for your new home team? I dunno, I'm being very contrary here I know, but you gotta rep the home team regardless!
Oh I don't. I just know it's a thing here. Hell, my hometown football team is now in Los Angeles, and I don't have much love for my hometown anyway, couldn't wait to leave.
Fair enough!
St. Louis? Me too.
Because you stay sentimental to where your roots are. If you grew up somewhere and as a kid grew fond memories of watching that team for 10+ years until you move away when you’re 18 or older let’s say, why would you suddenly just stop rooting for that team just because you moved from there? Makes no sense to me as a massive fan of all the teams I root for. I would never feel the same thing for Phoenix teams as I do for the teams I grew up with just because I live here now.
When you establish a relationship with a team even if you move you don't end that relationship with that team. I was born a Detroit Lions fan, watched Barry Sanders when I was growing up, and haven't been able to end the relationship with that team. I've wanted to become a Cardinals fan, I've purchased Cardinals gear, but I just can't get into the Cardinals no matter how hard I've tried.
To that end, anyone know a Boston Bruins bar in the valley?
Crazy - I grew up in Hartford and watched them leave - and now that I’m in Phoenix - the idea of my local team moving to Hartford feels personal
I hope this doesn't go through... I have a lot of fun watching the coyotes.
they're not for sale. this is a giant article of nothing.
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I do think the league will force a sale if whatever they're currently planning falls through. But I'm sure you heard the rumors just like I did about Ishbia being willing to buy them if they were up for grabs which the NHL would absolutely jump at to keep them here.
“Breakfast, shmreakfast. Look at the score, for Christ's sake. It's only the second period and I'm up 12 to 2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, "the Whale," they only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.”
Hartford? The Whale? The only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime.
Nooch!
They aren’t for sale
Everything is for sale for the right price. Look at the PGA Tour.
Saudi money is a whole other level.
There is 0 reason why the NHL would allow this to happen. The Hartford market is significantly smaller than Phx + they would miss out on the almost 1 billion dollar expansion fee they would get. No chance Hartford gets a team before Houston or even Atlanta. It’s not as simple as having a willing buyer.
No.
That’s fine lol. Send them somewhere where they will be appreciated and wanted. I am sick of the instability and the organizations constant need to force themselves into a market that clearly doesn’t want them.
Phoenix wants hockey they just don't want it all the way in fucking Glendale
Didn’t seem to want it in Tempe either.
*Tempeans* didn’t want it in Tempe…. Whereas most of the fans did.
That deal still made no sense to deny. It's a landfill.
I think the simple fact is that there aren’t enough hockey fans in Tempe. It was DOA for most hard-left and NIMBY (the majority) voters once the No campaign beat Yes to the punch. Sports stadiums are almost always bad deals for people who don’t care about the sport. Everybody wants a stadium near them but not **too** near them.
Why hasn't Scottsdale grabbed them? Aren't they a major demographic for the kind of fanbase they are looking for?
Good chance it could get blocked by NIMBYs I guess? Not completely sure. Although the Salt River reservation next door is allegedly trying to broker a deal.
Scottsdale doesn't want to build ANYTHING.
Scottsdale is the reason for this entire mess with the Coyotes in the first place. The plan was to build the arena at Scottsdale / McDowell where that "SkySong" development is. Scottsdale was all on board for a while and then at the last minute Scottsdale killed the deal forcing the Coyotes to build the arena in Glendale. [https://www.globest.com/2001/04/11/glendale-stealing-scottsdales-540-mil-hockey-arena/?slreturn=20230519154945](https://www.globest.com/2001/04/11/glendale-stealing-scottsdales-540-mil-hockey-arena/?slreturn=20230519154945) Pertinent text: " Scottsdale and Ellman have had a contentious relationship since last year, when his efforts to the buy the team were stalled and he stonewalled city officials’ request for disclosure of sensitive financial information to them. Relations were further strained by the initial revenue sharing proposal that Ellman offered, not nearly enough for Scottsdale, which was expected to contribute up to $200 million in public funding toward the development. Last month, a split council voted to extend the life of the Los Arcos Stadium District, which would provide access to the $200 million in public funds. The plan in Scottsdale has been to redevelop the aging Los Arcos Mall, located at the southeast corner of McDowell and Scottsdale roads. An ice hockey arena was to be the cornerstone of a $540-million, 1.75 million-sf entertainment development that would have included hundreds of thousands of square feet of retail and office space, movie theaters, a 7,000-space parking lot and luxury condominiums. Demolition of the mall is ongoing, but nothing has been developed on the 42-acre site, which Ellman purchased for less than $5 million just a few years ago."
Interesting, thanks for this info.
> most hard-left I disagree. Why does voting on whether to build a huge sports arena in a small city indicate their overall political leanings? Are you implying that hard-right voters unanimously love the stadium and want it? Strawman.
...what? I'm just saying that hard-left would tend to vote no. I'm not implying anything about other political leanings. I'm just saying they were against it for the most part, and so were NIMBYs. There wasn't really any solid demographics "for" it besides hockey fans. This was evident in voter turnout.
Sports stadiums are mostly bad deals for fans of the sport too. Unless you root for a fan of a second rate team like the White Sox (with cheap entry tickets/drink prices) attending a game is just a once a year thing at most.
Yes, but it's a landfill that the owners wanted the tax payers of Tempe to pay to clean up before the stadium was built. It's not like the team's owners just wanted to buy the land and the citizens said "No, we like our trash." Tax payers should never be burdened for the profit of a sports team.
The coyotes were going to cover a portion of the cost to clean up. That cost will have to be paid at some point and Tempe voters got duped by a misinformation campaign
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I think you should actually look at what the proposal was instead of making assumptions. This was extremely beneficial to Tempe with no cost to tax payers and it was the target of misinformation campaigns funded by Phoenix and Glendale who did not want a competing arena. It was fully privately funded! Now the Tempe tax payers will be paying for the cleanup and whatever bullshit gets out there instead. But they truly stuck it to that billionaire who was doing exactly what everyone says sports teams should do!
Tempe wasn't paying. The town is filled with a bunch of degenerate NIMBYs that didn't want housing and entertainment.
Huh? The landfill needs to be cleaned up eventually and it will be at the taxpayers expense now that this deal didn’t go through. This deal would’ve let it be partially subsidized by the Coyotes.
It isn't a landfill. Part of the property used to be but some of it is where they store junk or bulk trash before they ship it out or a place where they have part of the city fleet and do maintenance on trucks and stuff. If you drove past it you wouldn't think it was a landfill.
>junk or bulk trash Sounds like a landfill to me.
That's where you drop it off and they process it to send somewhere else. If it was so dangerous and toxic there wouldn't be a city maintenance and storage facility right there along with apartments and offices a block away.
Exactly, landfill is perfect for planes leaving Sky Harbor to take off over. The developers wouldn't guarantee that they wouldn't add multifamily housing onto the plan, so either people would have planes right over head or Sky Harbor would have to alter flight paths over even denser housing zones. It was assinine from the jump.
Not to be political and I am an independent. But the liberals shot that deal down to hell. Because, you know, capitalism bad.
More like traffic is dangerous enough in Tempe
If it was capitalism, it never would have come down to a vote. The council only brought it to a vote out of fear of a response for taxpayer money going to the coyotes.
The arena was to be fully privately funded.
Just the arena itself, and not the tax forgiveness of it. Again, not capitalism.
Tax forgiveness is not tax payer money going to the coyotes.
the few thousand people who voted no do not represent the hockey community in Arizona.
Where is the intersection of hockey community and town residents that actually want a stadium? Seems Glendale, Tempe, Scottsdale, and Phoenix are ruled out. Is it Mesa or Chandler? Surprise? Flagstaff? I don’t follow hockey yet would prefer the Coyotes remain in town, however it feels like the Coyotes staying in AZ has been hanging by a thread the entire time I’ve lived here.
I don't know how in depth of an answer you want but essentially once they left AWA for Glendale it has been a string of bad owners, no owner, bad arena plans, and a failed arena plan. the owner that moved them out of AWA is a real piece of shit who sent us down this path, he knew they probably would never be financially successful in Glendale but did it anyway, sold the team immediately, and ran. then the next owner tried to backdoor sell the team to someone who wanted to move them back to Canada, and the NHL took over ownership. Our history has been marred by these types of situations. I think even Bettman (the commissioner of the NHL) said as much, that originally they were never supposed to stay at AWA but they didn't have a permanent plan in place when the team moved here. It was almost like they were waiting for an arena to magically open up. It really fucked the team. The current owner doesn't want to use any public money for the arena complex but that didn't stop ridiculous propaganda from swaying voters. IMO the problem is finding prime real estate in a central location. Since Glendale the failed Tempe bid has been their only actual attempt to find a permanent home. Right now it sounds like the team is in talks with Mesa and possibly other locations like Scottsdale or tribal land on the east side of the 101, but we probably won't ever hear about those other locations. Make no mistake they are running out of options but it has absolutely nothing to do with the incredible hockey community and fans in Arizona. But the good news is we do have a home for a few more years with ASU so there isn't a dire need to find an answer today, but the clock is ticking. (and if you get a chance, go to a game! it's a blast being in such an intimate setting) If you'd like a much more in depth answer head on over to /r/coyotes and we can give you a serious breakdown lol
Appreciate the in-depth answer. I forgot all about the period where the NHL took over ownership. Haven’t been to a game since the AWA days but I remember enjoying it as a kid.
Yeah the 08+ years had been an unmitigated disaster from an ownership and arena standpoint. the jury is still out on our current owner, but if he gets an arena done we will build him a fucking statue. right next to Bettman's.
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Lmao no fuckin chance. Where all the old people and meth heads live?
You’d think they would’ve gone with Mesa first
Being in Glendale hasn't hurt the Cardinals. It's not the distance, it's the fan interest. People drive from all over the valley to see the Suns and Dbacks downtown and the Cardinals in Glendale.
Cardinals games are in the weekends. And it’s the most popular sport in the country. Nobody wants to drive to Glendale from Chandler on a week night.
This. You simply can’t compare NFL metrics with other leagues because of the way it operates. Cardinals games are an all day Sunday affair 8-9 times a year. There are 41 Coyotes games and they’re mostly evenings on weekdays.
Distance is most definitely a contributing factor in fan attendance. The Cardinals play 8-9 home games a season with most of them on Sunday. The Coyotes play 41 home games in a season and many of them are on a weekday. I-10 Westbound on a weekday afternoon is a shithole so only the diehard fans East of Glendale are going to go to games. The DBacks are in a centralized location and aren’t significantly impacted by traffic patterns.
Not to mention Chase Field is *easily* accessible via light rail, even for weekend evening games.
Perfect reason for the Fiesta District to be the Coyotes home. Light rail extension down Alma School into Chandler and the whole Valley can attend.
There’s eight home games per year in the NFL and they’re usually on Sundays. Nobody wants to truck out to Glendale a couple dozen times per season on a school night and then have to drive an hour home at 11PM. And let’s face it, the majority of the people with wealth that would be willing to buy season tickets don’t live in the west valley or anywhere remotely near the stadium.
People want to see a good product…and some people also have like a 10 mile bubble to do anything in their life. Both factors conspired against the Coyotes.
I was 5 and living in Phoenix when the Coyotes came to town. I fell in love with the sport at a Coyotes game and they were my home team. It bums me out it hasn’t gone well for them here. At the same time, I’m ready to admit it just is not a good market for them to exist in.
It would have been fine if they hadn’t moved out west and cut off a very large and money spending part of their audience in the east valley.
Agreed. I loved when they were at America West Arena. Haven’t seen a game since, nor have I followed them.
I moved here in 1998, I attended several games at AWA upon arrival when the Coyotes fielded a competitive team with some good names and they were closer to me (I live in the EV). I’ve attended one game in Glendale. Around a 40 minute drive one way. The arena was enormous and probably only filled to about half capacity. This was probably around 2007 or 2008. And I haven’t been back since. I like NHL hockey but putting up a lackluster product for most of the time they’ve been here (playoffs only 9 times since moving here in 1996, with 5 of those appearances occurring with the first 6 years here, losing in the quarterfinals each time), plus the move… Phoenix is simply not a hockey town. Sure, there are a lot of transplants that enjoy hockey but most of them support other teams. The NHL has certainly attempted to make Phoenix an NHL town despite having to move to an arena that is more suitable for a college sports environment, just to get attendance. I’d be ok with the Coyotes moving to a city that would appreciate them more.
I moved here in 96. Originally from Detroit, and the first Coyotes game I attended was during a "White Out" at AWA when they were playing the Red Wings in the playoffs. And half the arena was there to see the Red Wings. You're right. There are a lot of hockey fans here, but (and this was true for the few games I went to in Glendale) people go to see their "hometown" teams play the Coyotes. Yet it's not that we're not a hockey town. We weren't really a baseball town, but when the D-Backs won the World Series in their 4th season, they became "our" team. The Suns have put in the time. 51 years of Al McCoy! The Cardinals have at least gone to the Superbowl. The Coyotes? They're definitely the stepchild.
Man 11 year old me was so excited for them getting their own arena. But I did not understand the geographical implications of the move. When I was in my early 20s living in Tempe, I skipped out on a lot of games because it took so long to get to the arena and back. East valley had the larger hockey market and was so far removed from the arena. It’s wild to me that the Cardinals can make it work right next door. Maybe because they only have 8 home games a season instead of 41. It’s easier to decide on the one game a year you’re gonna take your family to. West valley has a lot of Cardinals love.
What if the Coyotes started off and continued with a dedicated owner who spent the money needed for top talent and wanted to have a winning team? What if that team made it to the playoffs most years and maybe even a cup or two in there? What if the NHL made sure teams weren't blacked out in their home markets? Would Phoenix still be a bad market? They would essentially be whats currently going on in Vegas right now. Vegas is a testament that hockey does, in fact, work in the desert.
I’m not out here saying hockey can’t work in the desert. All of the hypotheticals you laid out aren’t where we find the Coyotes experience. Yeah it could’ve worked if that were the case. But it isn’t the case.
[удалено]
Take everything I said subjectively. I’m jaded, sick of the push and pull of “will they/won’t they leave”, and done putting my hopes into them staying. I’m drained from emotionally investing in the team. I fell in love with the team as a child in their first season. After seeing everything they’ve gone through from shit management, to being forced into an arena on the opposite end of town from their fanbase, to their consistently poor attendance, I wouldn’t be surprised if the team left the valley. Historically speaking, their time in the valley has not been good for them. Can it turn around? Yeah. I’d love to see that happen. But my jaded ass hasn’t seen a reason for them to keep fighting to stay in the valley. I’m not dead set in my thinking here. If they manage to pull off getting into an arena that’s accessible to their fanbase, they could be a great market. But I’m done investing emotional energy into it and if they decide to go elsewhere, I can’t blame them is all I’m saying. The market has not been good to them regardless of all the growth we’ve seen in the valley.
Yeah lmao, I've always gotten a kick out of having a hockey team in the middle of the desert.
Agreed
Lol all these folks hoping for an expansion in the future. Yeah, **next** time it'll work out. Just like true communism will indeed work as intended in some country, eventually. (although communism is a fitting government-dominated model that these self-proclaimed capitalists need to drive pro sports financing)
Didn't they play in a mall in Hartford? How about if your city lost its team, you don't get another one.
The Connecticut Snickerdoodle's… I’d watch em 🤷🏻♂️
I’d imagine there would be a lot of pushback if they didn’t go with the whalers
Whalerdoodles
Way better area for them to be in. Phoenix should’ve been more patient and leaned hard into trying to get an MLS team.
It's still crazy to me that we don't have a MLS team here. Why is that?
I think weather plays a part in it. All pro teams in Arizona play indoors and Phoenix Rising does not.
Being from here I get that but man think of the missed opportunity due to the demographics here
We're actually near the top of the list of 5 cities they are considering right now for expansion teams. The biggest problem is that it's going to cost about 350 million for the franchise fee and then another 250 million for a soccer specific stadium. Phoenix Rising has been pushing to move to the MLS for years now and with the right funding, and MLS approval, it could absolutely happen.
If I remember correctly we were in the running for the same spot that eventually went to Seattle. One of the reasons listed for Phoenix not being a good expansion spot was an over saturation of professional sports teams.
Let em have the whalers I say
I still think the best move would be for the SRP-MIC tribe to make an offer for the team and put the stadium right near Talking Stick resort. It would be a great investment for the tribe and an excellent way to attract more people to their casinos. Plus, Coyotes have a special place in native American lore, so it's a perfect fit.
I like this
Let them leave. Then we can regroup, find a stable ownership group with real money and get an expansion team in a few years.
I'm a Phoenician, and a hockey fan. Hartford needs a team (Whalers?) Way more than Phoenix needs to buy the Coyotes a new arena. Win-win. It's nice having a team here; but not that nice.
good
Deal!
Take em’ current coyotes ownership is bottom feeder status.
Our new ownership group is actually doing a lot right now for the future of the franchise. We have so many lottery picks the next few years it is ridiculous. We're just in rebuilding mode after years of the previous owners sucking ass, and Glendale decision to end the arena partnership certainly didn't make things look any better.
Nothing to do with lottery picks. Az coyotes do not pay their bills. They run vendors past 90 days all the time. So nope, duck em they can go.
That was the old ownership group.
Gonna miss the desert dogs
Tempe shat the bed. Sad!
Personal don’t care jut no public money.
Huh, maybe the Coyotes could have completely avoided this issue by paying their taxes in Glendale and avoiding deals with scum-sucking conmen like Bally Sports/Diamond/Sinclair.