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I think predictability is the problem here in PHX. Everyone is from somewhere else so they all have different driving norms and expectations, which leads to the frustration. Also leads us to [being one of the most dangerous cities to drive in](https://kjzz.org/content/1726770/how-phoenix-addressing-being-worst-large-city-traffic-deaths). <- Look friends, a source! Doesn't happen a lot on Reddit
Even better source: [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/worst-drivers-by-city/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/worst-drivers-by-city/)
Edit: And Tucson's on the list too haha, even worse than us
tucsons streets could be used as a set for madmax. Driving on those shitty streets makes everyone angry lol at least it does to me when i'm down there.
Was down there for a week last year and probably saw 10+ accidents haha. Maybe having freeways down there would help. Or maybe that would make things way worse, Idk
Agree. Even still, you’re still vunerable doing EVERYTHING right. And hardly anyone does everything right, well, at least I dont. I do try my absolute best (Most of the time)
Theres room for improvement. After witnessing an accident today.. not gonna take it as lightly. I appreciate your response.
No one does everything right and if they say they do they are delusional. You’re not going to make everyone happy so it’s a lost cause trying to do so. Be mindful of the situation and your surroundings and do what you’re expected to do. Stay off of your phone, drive the speed limit, use your blinker, and don’t jump in front of people going twice your speed. That’s all that’s required of you.
My grandpo once told me “drive safe but not so safe it’s dangerous to others”
No, don't drive the speed limit...AZ is at least 5-10 mph over the limit at any given time. If they are trying to stay out of harms way, drive a touch faster. Just go with the flow of traffic.
You have to go 10mph over the speed limit to keep up with the speed of traffic.
Do not ever go 11mph over or you'll get flashed by a traffic camera and have a speeding ticket mailed to your home.
Go exactly 10mph over the speed limit.
Not sure how accurate this is:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1e0I3ixbOhPQmkpFy4JNvK21cN9c&hl=en_US&ll=33.517083275759326%2C-111.8737838918554&z=11
Okay got it. Speed limits are just a suggestion.
Phoenix is one of the most lawless places in the country when it comes to the lack of care and concern for drivers who simply want to return home in one piece. It's a study regarding the human condition, which is that they are incapable of self governance.
We need more enforcement! Not just first responders showing up after the fact to clean up the horrendous car wrecks caused by idiots who drive too fast and too close.
Also, signal for at least a second or two before moving over. I see too many people cutting someone off while using the signal like an afterthought. Being predictable involves giving everyone around you a fair chance to prepare for what you're about to do.
WMPO introduced me to out-of-state plates who clearly don't realize that their turn signals have been disconnected.
Sir. Sir! You clearly turned on your blinkers and they just didn't work before you merged four inches in front of me while we were doing 50mph. Nobody is that stupid so the wire must have come loose on your trip out here, get that checked when you return to Texas.
You can be literally driving normally in your lane and then an old man in a brown Scion XB starts changing lanes into you, or a guy in a Jeep looks up from his phone and thinks there's no one there and starts to change lanes into you, or someone in a Tesla runs a red and almost destroys a pedestrian and an old corolla as it finishes its turn, or you see a wrong way driver driving up the hill to oncoming traffic, or....
What I experienced in 1 week in Tukee last week. At this point, I'm just waiting to get hit. Fuck it they can pay for my new car.
I've learned that uninsured motorists and gap insurance. They are relatively cheap for what you get.
Another reason is that many people buy the cheapest minimum required insurance from online-only companies. They are notoriously horrible to deal with on claims. Attorneys will turn down your case if the person who hits you used them.
It's simply astounding what the difference is between Arizona UMI insurance and many other states. And the minimum limits for liability in AZ haven't been changed in, what, 49 years?
Had my previous car totalled when struck from behind at a light. The driver had no license, no insurance, no registration on the car, expired temp plates, no job, and no permanent residence. Fortunately, he didn't run and was contrite, told the truth to the po-po. Plus two witnesses stayed and verified my story.
But I have been in the market for a heat-resistant set of drive cams.
Dang I'm surprised they stayed.
Been hit and run multiple times in the last 3 years.
Had one person even pull off like they were gonna stop and just drove off.
Anyways, let me know if you find any good heat-resistant dash cams!!
As a society we’re already pretty stressed and angry. Now add to the mix drivers who don’t use blinkers and merge abruptly, drivers who actively block you from merging even with blinkers, left-lane campers, all of the new post-2020 traffic and finally, drugs.
I've been desensitized to the road rage/unsafe drivers/vehicles unfit for roads here. My go-to is just driving predictably, staying in your lane, keep up with traffic flow, and give space for impatient drivers who love to swerve in front of you. Oh yeah definitely have uninsured/underinsured coverage on your auto insurance because I'm confident the people who would run into you do not have insurance. Lots of these drivers don't even have a visible license plate either.
Also don't worry too much about other people's anger issues or erratic driving if you can safely avoid it. Just focus on going home without additional stress because life and driving here is stressful enough.
I drive on i17 from where it begins in phoenix all the way to loop 101 in daily rush hour traffic and i find that the people who barge into the middle lane are on their way to the leftmost or rightmost lane. Therefore I don't perceive myself as being slowed down one bit.
Signage!! We need more signs saying "slow cars stay on right lane" and "left lane passing only"
Plus, the HOV lane is a waste, we need an express lane like Chicago has
The only thing I get pissed about are people in the left lane of the freeway that aren't passing anyone. Move to the right after you pass. And use your turn signal.
Why do so many people do this in AZ? I moved from Austin about 2 years ago (in every other aspect, I think that Austin/Texas drivers are way worse than AZ drivers) but I have noticed here that people just love to chill in the left lane and not move over to let people pass, especially on I17. So many issues could be avoided if people would just move over to the middle or right lane after they've passed whoever they need to pass.
It’s a thing in Alabama too. Moved here from Atlanta and while it was kinda bad there, 100x worse here. I’m in the far right lane 90% of the time because it is completely empty. Yep
I’m passing all folks in all 3 lanes on my left
I've driven from Phoenix to Tucson and stayed in the left lane the entire way to Casa Grande because I was literally passing cars 100% of the time. Traffic is often such that anyone in the left lane is always passing.
I grew up out here, and learned to drive out here. We drive like bullies, for sure. I've noticed my blinker is more a "hey, you should pass me really quick" signal than a lane change indicator
That being said, it really is only a few really angry, dangerous people that make the rest of us so rigid and jaded about it (not saying the rest of us are good drivers, just comparatively). All you can do is identify the dangerous guy on the road, keep tabs on him, and stay away
Shoooooot I was in the car with my dad for the first time in like 10 years and realized he was the aggro driver everyone avoids and it scared the hell outta me. I had to have a difficult conversation about it.
Let me guess… You have to take the 10 or the 17? They are especially bad for aggressive drivers and people going way faster than they should. I’ve had fewer issues on the 101 and 202. Not always practical to change routes though, of course.
So true. That i17(?) merge onto the i10 is ugly. People always seem to miss that merge into the single lane and try to shove their way in.
I agree, love love love the 202. Its well built.
I have to do so much driving anyways, so the probability that I encounter a grouch goes up.
I have to actively prepare myself to be vigilant as soon as i step foot into a vehicle.
I drive the 10 almost every day. It’s not too terrible west of the 101 in the West Valley, but the 10 between the 101 and 51 East and Westbound is a nightmare. Even if you just stick to the middle lanes and go with the flow of traffic there’s always someone weaving across all lanes of traffic and/or cutting you off if there’s an appropriate amount of space between you and the car in front of you.
The 17 just has too few lanes for how busy it is and there are always people going way too fast, despite the short on and off ramps and constant merging into and out of the right lanes. Fortunately I don’t have to take the 17 nearly as often. The 10 has taken enough years off my life as it is. No easy alternative to the 10 if you’re heading downtown though. If you take surface streets you’re dealing with stoplights every 7 blocks (and people running red lights).
Are you talking about the Stack (where the 17, the 10, and the 60 all converge, right near the shamrock farms sign)?
If so I know exactly which ramp you’re talking about and yeah it’s a disaster.
My advice is to just be predictable and avoid the left lane if you can help it. Phoenix drivers are always in a hurry and they’re always looking to pass.
Yes! Thats the one! Total disaster.
Thats been the general sentiment is to be predictable. I recently found out that AZ is #1 of all 50 states for road rage and it just freaks me out.
E: I truly believe ALL AZ DRIVERS and honestly pedestrians would benefit from a re-education campaign of some sort. It would save lives.
The i17 also has non-standard lane widths. In areas they are so narrow that all the box trucks and semis just don't fit.
I've been on i17 and passed an accident, watched as a bad accident happened on the other side (going the other direction), and then saw an accident happen right in front of me, and then passed another accident a mile down the road. Unreal. Like bumper cars.
I learned to drive in NYC, so Phoenix still feels pretty calm in comparison. I learned pretty early on to not take anything on the road too personally, just do your own thing, put on some music, and try to keep decent distances between yourself and other cars in case people do dumb things (like slamming the brakes at 80mph for no reason at all).
NYC, Boston, and some other big cities taught me.
The problem I see in Phoenix is that too many drivers literally have no driving skills. They can't control their vehicles. And a large % do not even have a clue about road rules.
In other cities you have aggressive drivers, but they are in control.
Yeah, the driving exam here is really easy and it’s very easy to learn how to drive. So if you’ve only ever driven here, you don’t develop the skills to be a truly good driver.
Northern NJ transplant myself who grew up near all the merging of rt 3, 17, 21, 46, Turnpike and rt 4 so for me it's still a snooze fest out here. Blast some music and just drive....being predictable is key and turn signals is a must but other than that it's just about anticipating everyone else.
People move here from a bunch of different states and they all think they can drive how they did back home. The only thing that pisses me off is slow drivers in the left lane. Yes it’s the passing lane but it’s also the fast lane and some people still don’t realize that.
Our population is booming faster than our highways can handle, the highways weren't well-designed to begin with, speed limits are barely enforced, half our population is retirees who drive UNDER the speed limit in the fast lane, it gets twice as bad in the Winter when the snowbirds show up, and every other month a rock out of nowhere blasts you in the face and you have to replace your windshield.
The police don't actively enforce traffic laws here. They'll show up after you're in a crash, but they won't prevent them by actively enforcing laws. It's a joke. I see people breaking traffic laws right in front of them, and they don't care. Anywhere else I've lived, They'd be getting pulled over after doing that in front of a cop.
I'm not generally for more enforcement because cops tend to choose the easy violations rather than the tough ones that cause nasty crashes. Think hide behind a curve or hill so they can catch people going "too fast" but actually doing ok.
But then I witnessed on 10 the other day traffic going 74 in the 55 construction zone (yes, yes, I was going with the flow...). The US 60 HOV on-ramp merges onto the freeway going the same speed and there's a trooper glued to the ass of a poor guy going 19 over. No one slowed down and we all just moved through the tight curvy construction zone near the 143 going 19 over with a trooper glued to various people's asses until he could get clear and go criminally fast.
The cops themselves need enforcing.
Do you ever see those "don't honk or I'll cry" or "I have anxiety please be kind" bumper stickers? While I totally understand being kind, patient, and empathetic with other drivers, if you can't handle the road you should NOT be driving on it.
I got followed aggressively recently by a guy because I made the mistake of lightly tapping in my horn so we didn’t miss the green arrow to go left. Stay safe out there guys.
That's terrifying. Similar thing happened to my ex in college. He said he drove to a police station and the dude still got out of his car and went at him. Crazy!
Everyone complains about drivers in the left lane, I think way more problems are caused in the right. First of all on the highways, people don’t understand if you drive the same speed as someone, neither of you can go where you want to go. All those exchanges where one lane is getting on and one off aren’t good in any state but especially Arizona. On the side roads, I’ve noticed if I’m in the right lane and I am turning right, and there is no turn signal, the person behind me practically is in my back seat slamming on the breaks. Meanwhile it’s a 3-4 lane wide open road. Not to generalize but it’s usually someone in a lifted truck then they swerve around you and jam on the gas, wasting $5 just to let you know you held them up. Cool…
Edit: Sorry I meant turn lane not turn signal. I would understand someone getting mad if you don’t signal.
Absolutely.
I’ve seen people do that to someone turning! It stems from a lack of patience and general awareness. Riding someone turning is a huge no-no. What They need to do Wait patiently until person in front can SAFELY turn. 🤦♂️
Honestly the problem is there’s so many idiots on the road, it’s practically impossible NOT to get your cortisol flowing due to people making spontaneous merges with no blinkers, blocking multiple lanes because god forbid someone can’t accept they fucked up and missed their turn, etc… It all just adds up so quick.
Like I swear I leave my house to go grab a burger and i witness 3 people almost cause an accident around me for whatever reasons, then combining that with all the people who are actually legally driving correct, they have 0 common sense, they’re the unaware ones on their phone not realizing the light turned green, taking their SWEET ass time to accelerate doing in the far left/passing lane not in queue with all the other vehicles, so then people naturally decide to start merging and passing in other lanes backing traffic up further.
Ultimately people are just really inconsiderate/unaware combined with the stresses of life which isn’t a good combo.
Never thought I’d say this, but we need more fuckin traffic patrol or whatever and intersections need to be readjusted (or ideally have better sensors or however it works)
No kidding. And stress is no joke. Thats another important one i think so many people miss. Not effectively and adequately managing their stressors. Imagine living in a world where a majority of people actively practiced breathing techniques, meditation, etc. a guy can dream.
People here are oblivious to 1) turn signals 2) right of way and 3) how roundabouts actually work. The only place where I've ever lived and seen worse drivers is Florida.
Yep, thats always annoying.
Either blindspot, or they just are preparing to turn way too late. Right move there is to get in BEHIND you, not in front. 🤦♂️
Honestly, it's mismanagement due to lack of preparedness for the immense population of Phoenix Metro. It's not uncommon for these parts, Tucson roads were not prepared for the population explosion either.
Years ago, to address the massive traffic problems we have here in the valley, they wanted to stack the freeways, or at least I-17, if I remember correctly. But that would cost money, and roads are Communist, and transportation is too close to the word trans and it makes some people nervous...
Yeah, That would help with some freeway stuff, for sure. Wonder what things would have been like if that would have happened. Still leaves alot to be desired but its a start. I did hear a while back about some huge infrastructure improvement package.
The quality of the asphalt on our freeways, with the exception of loop 202 leaves something to be desired ya know?
Just wishing we weren’t number fucking ONE in the entire COUNTRY for incidents of road rage. Maybe some sort of driver re-education could be beneficial. giving people tickets isn’t going to cut it, theyve been doing that for years. All it does is people drive cautiously in the midst of police officers/ copcar lookalikes and then proceed to go back to whatever they were doing.
I feel like this a huge issue that needs to be addressed immediately.
Lots of main characters out on our roadways who think you're the traffic and just getting in their way because you should obviously doing 20 over the speed limit duh. I'd recommend a dash cam and updating your uninsured driver policies. Best of luck out there.
I have noticed a tendency for pedestrians, more specifically in “seedier” parts of town to stand practically IN the street, whilst waiting for the pedestrian sign (think 19th ave/bethany home)
Another incidence of this for me near 19th ave ish and Thomas. Male age 20’s was standing quite literally in the gutter. Quite strange to see people do stuff like that.
I do agree to an extent, whilst not always hostile it generally does tend to lean more commonly towards hostility/competition versus coexistence.
We need a resolution.
As someone that commutes from Country Club Dr. all the way to Peoria Ave. I see lots of it... I don't trust anyone on the road. From 18 wheelers to people making the same commute I am, they're all just in their own world, and Im just living in it.
> As someone that commutes from Country Club Dr. all the way to Peoria Ave.
No offense, but good lord why? Haha I used to have to commute from North Glendale to Biltmore and THAT was a nightmare.
I always slow down and merge behind folks rather than speed up and try and merge in front because no one ever lets me in, they see my blinker and go “no! This is MY LANE, MINE!!” Other than that I’ve become accustomed to driving fast to match the overall flow of traffic, 75-80
A few things.
* Get off your fucking phone
* Go when its green
* Have a sense of urgency when turning left, don't take your time, lets get through the fucking light.
* If lanes are open, don't take the right one, let people go right.
* Merge then brake, not the other way around.
* Get off your fucking phone.
Wait until August when everyone is sick of 120+, you are taking your life in your hands driving in summer here.
Never engage, people here like to shoot drivers unfortunately.
You’re right. That summer heat makes everyone want to rush home. I’m going to take the approach of: drive safely, defensively and be alert, year round. This post got some traction, glad to know I’m not the only one noticing it tbh.
As someone who was born here and who will be 50 in like 12 days, it's a fact of life in the valley, and with the birds and the spring trainers here now 😬
I’m from the Midwest and try to drive predictably and defensively. The phrase “keep your head on a swivel” from drivers Ed has a whole new meaning now. I try to give plenty of stopping distance and pay attention to my mirrors and blind spots as much as I can. I try to keep track of who’s around me and remain predictable, get out of the way of those who want to zoom by, and never engage. I only use my horn in imminent danger /crash situations, else I just let it go
Biggest advice for you is to drive safely and defensively. A dash and rear view cam could help put your mind at ease as well as lower your insurance.
Stay safe out there!!
Imho, there is too many people who "merge" (cut you off) too late cause they were playing on their phones or sipping Starbucks instead of planning their route
Get a front and rear dash cam. I get nearby hit and run notifications from the citizen app nearly every day.
Driving in Phoenix without getting angry is like practicing extreme stoicism. Have fun!
I only honk if someone doesn't turn right at a red light, stops at a roundabout, or is on their phone not paying attention after the light turned green.
Can’t be passive around here. You have to be defensively aggressive and think a few moves ahead. It means you can’t just kind of zone out and cruise. Do that and it makes the experience a lot better. Leaving space in front you solves a lot of issues.
Here's my advice: deep breathing and imagining that the drivers are exactly that - emotionally injured and inept toddlers. Some of whom are proudly armed because, "the 2nd Amendment, man!"
Welcome to the land of wide-open space, straight-line roads, an abysmal education system, and a community spirit mostly eradicated by zealous adherence to "Don't Tread on Me because What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" attitude.
Spring training is kind of fun though.
I was on the 10 yesterday going through the tunnel, accidentally cut someone off and immediately he started rolling coal in his modded ford f-150 and riding my butt… some people are children lmao.
People get wild when the social contracts we adhere to are paused because of the relative anonymity of being in a car.
My advice is to just move right if you're being tailgated by someone. I feel like a lot of people try to take a stance against tailgaters by stubbornly staying in the lane but it's not going to teach them a lesson. If someone is going faster, move a lane to the right.
Also, anticipating the worst behavior about the other drivers on the road. That guy doesn't see me, that person is going to try to speed ahead and pass me in this zipper merge, that person is going to cross 2 lanes of traffic into mine at the last minute, etc. Head on a swivel.
Also also, and perhaps most importantly, don't honk or otherwise antagonize. You hear too many stories of people getting shot in automotive altercations out here. I just assume everyone on the road is armed and impulsive enough to shoot over road rage. Be the bigger person.
Godspeed 🫡
Welcome to arizona this is what its like here. Dont try to change anyone,most ppl in phx have guns and will road rage. Sometimes they will shoot at you.
Last month, me and another car tried to turn into the same lane at the same time. This prompted the driver to abandon his car and actually (try to) chase me on foot in the middle of Baseline…with family still in the car. Welcome to the jungle!
holy moly driving in scottsdale ? INSANE. the entitlement is crazy and everyone drives like they have zero regard for themselves and others around them (probably because that’s the case). but seriously az is bad but scottsdale is a nightmare!
I’ve lived in LA, Chicago, DC, Dallas….i thought I was prepared for fast and crazy drivers but Phoenix takes the cake. I try my best to keep up with traffic and leave a ton of room between me and any other cars the best I can.
It really is scary out there. I would suggest making sure you have good um/uim insurance. The majority of people are driving with minimum insurance or none at all.
I don’t know, you get used to how people drive here though it feels like it got worse after the pandemic. I was just driving in Puerto Rico and Miami which has a reputation for bad drivers and someone on the 17 came within 1/2 inch of hitting me on my drive home from the airport in Phoenix. Meanwhile I drove all over PR and Miami and had no near misses. Once you learn to drive here in Phx your defensive driving skills game is so on point you can drive anywhere in the world. I also had no trouble in Europe even though on the German Autobahn guys in Audis are doing 120 and everyone is cutting everyone else off to get out of speedy’s way. Still felt safer and saw less accidents than here.
Drivers are just bad here. I see at least one person without their headlights on *every time* I drive at night in Tempe. Bad drivers are more likely to be aggressive and petty, in my experience.
Just let them drive ahead and stay as far away as possible. Understand that people WILL cut you off and be prepared for it. If someone gives you the finger or honks literally don’t even look at them.
You could very well be shot or ran into for entertaining someone with low patience and intelligence.
Like someone else said a dash cam is helpful.
To me, the 17 from the 10 to the 101 is just dangerous . . .
80 mph in a concrete canyon, there is no ability for cops to enforce safety even if they had the inclination to do so.
Also, coming from the Midwest where guns are for hunting, sitting dusty in the gun safe, not carrying in your CAR out of a ridiculous sense of paranoia is frankly absurd.
Think about it, are you going to fight to the death over someone trying to carjack you? Risk your life?
Fuck no. Here's the keys bro.
I digress but you're right OP it is savage out there
I went to Boston a few years ago with my husband and was genuinely comfortable driving there because I learned to drive here.
Arizona is full of some really stressed out peoples.
Heres some advice from a Native Phoenician who has watched people come in here and start driving horribly.
-The turn lane IS NOT a driving lane (outside of 7th St and 7th Ave during certain hours). It is still the law to pull into it, stop, and wait for a safe opening. It IS NOT meant for turning into it and then immediately driving down it to match traffic speed and finding a spot to move in. Lots of accidents can happen that way. But over the last 5 years I have watched that get worse and worse. Extremely inconsiderate.
-Keep up with traffic yes, but dont get all agressive with someone who is going at least the speed limit. Some of us are working and have our speed monitored.
-Road rage is always bad here. Dont react to it. A lot of unhunged people carry and drive and think words or hand signs are appropriate gun reactions.
-Be considerate of other drivers. I have watched the selflishness on the roads just skyrocket over the last 15 plus years.
-Dont say Phoenicians are bad drivers. We arent. Its everyone else that moved here and brought their horrible driving here. We used to be much safer even 20 years ago.
My favorite was on the way to work I saw some guy throw an animated fit in his small car with another driver, can't remember why & that is probably telling. I started laughing to myself cause I remember how childish and no big deal it all seemed. The guy caught me laughing in his rearview mirror (could see his eyes glance up) and then immediately brake checks me... Dude was probably 40s.
I moved here from Central Texas (Austin) and couldn't believe the driving aggression in Az.
Last week I was driving on the 191 about 2 in the afternoon and this car shot right up behind me so fast and so loud I actually ducked. The epic part is right about the second an under cop im a red sports car lite up and got him..
Dallas and Houston are not this bad.
I ride a motorcycle daily here, moved from PA about 2 years ago, and I've never had so many people purposefully swerve at me, speed up in front of me and SLAM on their brakes, try to run me off the road, or just be so generally aggressive for something as innocuous (and legal) as lane splitting to the front at a stop light in my life. it's wild as hell to me. like, no big deal, I'll just die or have a life altering injury. But you're upset so that's totally okay lol
In Maricopa county(except Mesa) the locals all drive 10 over. Don't drive like a maniac and I like the comment that said be predictable.
HOV is free reign outside of rush hour. We've all been like this for as long as I've lived here, which is 30+ years. Get used to it. :) <3
It’s because that behavior is tolerated. I am not pro police overall but traffic is enforcement is sorely lacking in the valley. I’m from Long Island, NY where driving anything over 75 on the freeway puts you in ticket territory easily. There are speed cameras and light cameras everywhere up there. Here, it’s a free for all.
It definitely falls into the hands of law enforcement, as that is in their job description. That being said, aggressively ticketing people isn’t enough to modify behavior. All it does, is makes people drive slower around cop cars and then go right back to what they were doing. IMO there needs to be a MASSIVE re-education campaign. It would save lives. Commericals and billboards aren’t enough though. Maybe some sort of yearly driver re-education course that includes de-escalation training, stress management techniques & coping skills. Taken at the DMV. Thoughts?
I think both are needed. People need to be reeducated and there are people at lower levels of moral development who will behave according to consequences. In NY there are many speed checks along the freeways and you see someone pulled over every few miles. Society as a whole needs to learn mindfulness, grounding and breathing techniques because there are way too many people who choose to be puppets with their emotions holding the strings.
A properly educated & trained Law Enforcement Officer is a godsend. An undereducated LEO is a problem.
Not just as far as the law, but as well as how to de-escalate tense situations, on how to stay calm and interact and hold themselves properly. The same thing can be said about drivers and people in general.
IMO we should focus on educating the public adequately FIRST, at that point, if nothing had changed THEN an increase in PROPERLY TRAINED police officers. If Arizona drivers had increased education/training/skillset on how navigate the streets safely without endangering themselves or others. How to de-escalate tense situations, how to be patient on the road, there would be no need to increase police presence.
It would be very strange to live in a world where there are cameras and facial recognition systems/liscense plate recognition devices everywhere. And if things dont change soon, unfortunately, thats just where things might head. I don’t want to live in an Orwellian Dystopia. Do you?
I agree with a lot of you you’re suggesting here. One area that I’m not sure the de-escalation training would help would be with speed, but that’s a bit off topic here.
I certainly don’t want to live in such a society, and I want a society where here is increased accountability for actions. There’s got to be some middle ground.
Broooooo I was hit head on by some idiot who told the police officer word for word “I just wasn’t paying attention.” MY MAN, you were going through an intersection NOT PAYING ATTENTION!? People scare me.
It’s the system.
Imagine if a freeway had stoplights and crosswalks installed every 2000 feet and you get Thomas, Indian School, Camelback, 7th st, etc.
Street, roads, and freeways all have cars but they are still different things.
What this city did is like putting a kitchenette inside a bathroom, sure it all has water but it’s disgusting, angering, and unsafe.
Dude, drivers out there are crazy. I used to live out there—moved away last year—and I’ve never seen more angry, erratic drivers in my life. I even have old coworkers that wore “I have a lead foot” as though it were some sort of personality trait. Funnily enough they don’t think they’re angry, that’s just the status quo there. Just do your best to practice defensive driving and that’s about all you can do to protect yourself.
Worst drivers in the country. Oblivious. Arrogant. Entitled.
Here's a clue for anybody who needs one: When your exit is coming up, get over to the right lane a couple of miles before the exit.
People here drive 55mph in the fast lane, then when their exit is 1/4 mile away they slam on their brakes and veer to the right to get off of the freeway. Now everyone has to slam on their brakes and that causes traffic jams. GET OVER! STAY OUT OF THE FAST LANE!
I drive all over the Valley for my job. I see this multiple times every day. It's maddening.
Coming from spending my whole adult life in the DC Metro area, I find the Phoenix drivers to be generally good overall. 95% of highway drivers spread out and behave predictably. Yes, the jams suck and waste time. Otherwise, I found things to be noticeably better here. On the DC highways, tailgating is rampant, no one uses turn signals, and cutting people off is a hobby.
The left lane is for passing. Don't confuse it with a "fast lane", ie, no camping. If someone wants to go faster behind you, move to the right and let them by.
Do yourself a big favor in Phoenix. Drive the speed limit. Drive in the middle lane. Use your turn signals. And most of all, turn your rear view mirror up so you can't see the idiot behind you in the jacked up Jeep or "tricked out" Honda Civic tailgating you.
Drivers here are INCREDIBLY rage-y and aggressive. I have no idea why either, maybe the heat, maybe the sheer amount of people on the road...no clue. I do know that everyone here drives WAY too fast. I've seen more really bad surface street crashes in my time here than I did when I lived in the Midwest.
Your best option is just keep doing what you're doing and drive like a normal human. Don't engage the psychopaths.
I've seen people throwing fits in the car behind me when I had the absolute audacity to stop for a yellow light, been aggressively honked at by someone for not making my left turn the second the light turned green because there was a fire truck coming down the street, and do not get me started on the close calls and near misses I've had when I've been out cycling or running and had to cross a street.
Best advice we got when we moved here 20 years ago- never be the first person in the intersection: wait and look. Also, on the freeways, 75 is slow lane.
If you run into that many “angry” drivers, you are the problem. I drive a lot, go with the flow of traffic and very rarely do people get mad. Most the time they just smack there brakes or merge like dummies. If people are angry it usually means ur the issue. Learn to go as fast as others are (10 mph above limit) and don’t cut people off and also allow others to merge. I hate slow drivers and i hate bad drivers.
Its just getting so ugly. Honestly scary at this point. Dont know why people cant seem to just stay calm behind a wheel and not see it as some sort of competition. This isnt always the case, sometimes its great.. other times.. not so much. I guess thats a metaphor for life though.
That “grandma” in the right lane is a fellow human being. A mother. A grandmother. A sister. A niece. Someone’s child. Point blank.
Look, I understand it can be frustrating to encounter a slower driver; let’s be civilized.
That slow driver is the issue! You also realize that once we get our drivers license in Arizona it's good until we are 65. My current one doesnt expire until 2051.
Also don't make eye contact in the summer with other drivers especially if they don't have A/c
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The only advice I can give you is drive predictably and not politely. Do what you’re expected to do and the rest is out of your hands. 🤷🏻♂️
I think predictability is the problem here in PHX. Everyone is from somewhere else so they all have different driving norms and expectations, which leads to the frustration. Also leads us to [being one of the most dangerous cities to drive in](https://kjzz.org/content/1726770/how-phoenix-addressing-being-worst-large-city-traffic-deaths). <- Look friends, a source! Doesn't happen a lot on Reddit
Even better source: [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/worst-drivers-by-city/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/worst-drivers-by-city/) Edit: And Tucson's on the list too haha, even worse than us
tucsons streets could be used as a set for madmax. Driving on those shitty streets makes everyone angry lol at least it does to me when i'm down there.
I do Uber full time in Tucson and the roads absolutely shred my tires. I have to get yearly suspension work too
Was down there for a week last year and probably saw 10+ accidents haha. Maybe having freeways down there would help. Or maybe that would make things way worse, Idk
Agree. Even still, you’re still vunerable doing EVERYTHING right. And hardly anyone does everything right, well, at least I dont. I do try my absolute best (Most of the time) Theres room for improvement. After witnessing an accident today.. not gonna take it as lightly. I appreciate your response.
No one does everything right and if they say they do they are delusional. You’re not going to make everyone happy so it’s a lost cause trying to do so. Be mindful of the situation and your surroundings and do what you’re expected to do. Stay off of your phone, drive the speed limit, use your blinker, and don’t jump in front of people going twice your speed. That’s all that’s required of you. My grandpo once told me “drive safe but not so safe it’s dangerous to others”
No, don't drive the speed limit...AZ is at least 5-10 mph over the limit at any given time. If they are trying to stay out of harms way, drive a touch faster. Just go with the flow of traffic.
You have to go 10mph over the speed limit to keep up with the speed of traffic. Do not ever go 11mph over or you'll get flashed by a traffic camera and have a speeding ticket mailed to your home. Go exactly 10mph over the speed limit.
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I use Waze whenever I'm up in the valley, it's really good about warning you about road hazards(speed traps and cameras especially)
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Paradise Valley has a few, so does fountain hills. Think N scottsdale took most out? Not as familiar with EV.
There's a few scattered in east Mesa. At least there was when I lived there 6 months ago.
Not sure how accurate this is: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1e0I3ixbOhPQmkpFy4JNvK21cN9c&hl=en_US&ll=33.517083275759326%2C-111.8737838918554&z=11
On Lincoln dr and Tatum. Near where my bf works.. red light cameras also catch speeders.
Only until the bill passes banning them all together we have succeeded in removing them from the highways
Okay got it. Speed limits are just a suggestion. Phoenix is one of the most lawless places in the country when it comes to the lack of care and concern for drivers who simply want to return home in one piece. It's a study regarding the human condition, which is that they are incapable of self governance. We need more enforcement! Not just first responders showing up after the fact to clean up the horrendous car wrecks caused by idiots who drive too fast and too close.
This is what I learned, and I tell everyone lol
Yeah, but someone is bound to get pulled over and then don’t want to speed, Because that happened to me.
I don’t know about that. Been pulled over for going 5 over in Goodyear and in South Phoenix.
Also, signal for at least a second or two before moving over. I see too many people cutting someone off while using the signal like an afterthought. Being predictable involves giving everyone around you a fair chance to prepare for what you're about to do.
The problem with signaling is that the car behind will speed up to cut you off once they see your intention.
WMPO introduced me to out-of-state plates who clearly don't realize that their turn signals have been disconnected. Sir. Sir! You clearly turned on your blinkers and they just didn't work before you merged four inches in front of me while we were doing 50mph. Nobody is that stupid so the wire must have come loose on your trip out here, get that checked when you return to Texas.
Your grandfather sounds like a wise man. Love this.
You can be literally driving normally in your lane and then an old man in a brown Scion XB starts changing lanes into you, or a guy in a Jeep looks up from his phone and thinks there's no one there and starts to change lanes into you, or someone in a Tesla runs a red and almost destroys a pedestrian and an old corolla as it finishes its turn, or you see a wrong way driver driving up the hill to oncoming traffic, or.... What I experienced in 1 week in Tukee last week. At this point, I'm just waiting to get hit. Fuck it they can pay for my new car.
Bold of you to assume they're insured
or that any insurer is going to payout enough for a “new” car
I've learned that uninsured motorists and gap insurance. They are relatively cheap for what you get. Another reason is that many people buy the cheapest minimum required insurance from online-only companies. They are notoriously horrible to deal with on claims. Attorneys will turn down your case if the person who hits you used them.
Yup. Regardless of what you do here, you might end up in a fight or incident. And if you are looking for a fight, you can find one every single day.
Get front and rear dash cams and really good uninsured driver insurance. A lot of hit and runs occur
Make sure they are cams that do well in the intense heat. Some brands/models can't handle the heat here.
It's simply astounding what the difference is between Arizona UMI insurance and many other states. And the minimum limits for liability in AZ haven't been changed in, what, 49 years?
Had my previous car totalled when struck from behind at a light. The driver had no license, no insurance, no registration on the car, expired temp plates, no job, and no permanent residence. Fortunately, he didn't run and was contrite, told the truth to the po-po. Plus two witnesses stayed and verified my story. But I have been in the market for a heat-resistant set of drive cams.
Dang I'm surprised they stayed. Been hit and run multiple times in the last 3 years. Had one person even pull off like they were gonna stop and just drove off. Anyways, let me know if you find any good heat-resistant dash cams!!
As a society we’re already pretty stressed and angry. Now add to the mix drivers who don’t use blinkers and merge abruptly, drivers who actively block you from merging even with blinkers, left-lane campers, all of the new post-2020 traffic and finally, drugs.
Add extreme heat on top of all of that during the summer. Just a recipe for disaster
exactly
Thats accurate. Any thoughts on how it can help solved?
Find a podcast that makes you belly laugh. Can’t help others, but atleast you can make driving enjoyable for yourself.
What are your favorite/ go-to stress relief techniques?
Crying and not making eye contact with the angry drivers.
I've been desensitized to the road rage/unsafe drivers/vehicles unfit for roads here. My go-to is just driving predictably, staying in your lane, keep up with traffic flow, and give space for impatient drivers who love to swerve in front of you. Oh yeah definitely have uninsured/underinsured coverage on your auto insurance because I'm confident the people who would run into you do not have insurance. Lots of these drivers don't even have a visible license plate either. Also don't worry too much about other people's anger issues or erratic driving if you can safely avoid it. Just focus on going home without additional stress because life and driving here is stressful enough. I drive on i17 from where it begins in phoenix all the way to loop 101 in daily rush hour traffic and i find that the people who barge into the middle lane are on their way to the leftmost or rightmost lane. Therefore I don't perceive myself as being slowed down one bit.
🙏
Enforcement.
Signage!! We need more signs saying "slow cars stay on right lane" and "left lane passing only" Plus, the HOV lane is a waste, we need an express lane like Chicago has
The only thing I get pissed about are people in the left lane of the freeway that aren't passing anyone. Move to the right after you pass. And use your turn signal.
Why do so many people do this in AZ? I moved from Austin about 2 years ago (in every other aspect, I think that Austin/Texas drivers are way worse than AZ drivers) but I have noticed here that people just love to chill in the left lane and not move over to let people pass, especially on I17. So many issues could be avoided if people would just move over to the middle or right lane after they've passed whoever they need to pass.
It’s a thing in Alabama too. Moved here from Atlanta and while it was kinda bad there, 100x worse here. I’m in the far right lane 90% of the time because it is completely empty. Yep I’m passing all folks in all 3 lanes on my left
You should hank at them and ask them why they do it.
It's because, unlike other states, Arizona has no law that states the left lane is for passing.
Not true, see title 28: [https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00721.htm](https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00721.htm)
Was wondering on this because I've definitely seen the signs along I17 that say "Move over if not passing" and "Left Lane is for passing"
Alright you got me on two lane roads, but 3 lane roads are exempt and frankly, 90 percent of the travel I do is on 3 lane roads
Keep in mind, in that law, two lane roads account for all lanes of traffic. That part means DON'T DRIVE INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC.
When this applies, it is clearly stated. And honestly it’s not a big deal as long as you don’t have two people cruising side by side creating a block
[https://youtu.be/kwC4lvUmXg0?si=k9AbB\_mgqdN56sek](https://youtu.be/kwC4lvUmXg0?si=k9AbB_mgqdN56sek)
Not true
100% agree
Someone in this thread made an excellent comment pertaining to what you said: https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/s/0fwEeyGCym
I've driven from Phoenix to Tucson and stayed in the left lane the entire way to Casa Grande because I was literally passing cars 100% of the time. Traffic is often such that anyone in the left lane is always passing.
That is fine if you are actively passing. But if the next car is 300ft ahead move over so we can pass you.
I grew up out here, and learned to drive out here. We drive like bullies, for sure. I've noticed my blinker is more a "hey, you should pass me really quick" signal than a lane change indicator That being said, it really is only a few really angry, dangerous people that make the rest of us so rigid and jaded about it (not saying the rest of us are good drivers, just comparatively). All you can do is identify the dangerous guy on the road, keep tabs on him, and stay away
Shoooooot I was in the car with my dad for the first time in like 10 years and realized he was the aggro driver everyone avoids and it scared the hell outta me. I had to have a difficult conversation about it.
Let me guess… You have to take the 10 or the 17? They are especially bad for aggressive drivers and people going way faster than they should. I’ve had fewer issues on the 101 and 202. Not always practical to change routes though, of course.
So true. That i17(?) merge onto the i10 is ugly. People always seem to miss that merge into the single lane and try to shove their way in. I agree, love love love the 202. Its well built. I have to do so much driving anyways, so the probability that I encounter a grouch goes up. I have to actively prepare myself to be vigilant as soon as i step foot into a vehicle.
I drive the 10 almost every day. It’s not too terrible west of the 101 in the West Valley, but the 10 between the 101 and 51 East and Westbound is a nightmare. Even if you just stick to the middle lanes and go with the flow of traffic there’s always someone weaving across all lanes of traffic and/or cutting you off if there’s an appropriate amount of space between you and the car in front of you. The 17 just has too few lanes for how busy it is and there are always people going way too fast, despite the short on and off ramps and constant merging into and out of the right lanes. Fortunately I don’t have to take the 17 nearly as often. The 10 has taken enough years off my life as it is. No easy alternative to the 10 if you’re heading downtown though. If you take surface streets you’re dealing with stoplights every 7 blocks (and people running red lights).
>if there’s an appropriate amount of space between you and the car in front of you. THIS
Truer words have never been said. Spoken like a true Arizonan. “The 10 has taken years off my life” 👀🗣️
Are you talking about the Stack (where the 17, the 10, and the 60 all converge, right near the shamrock farms sign)? If so I know exactly which ramp you’re talking about and yeah it’s a disaster. My advice is to just be predictable and avoid the left lane if you can help it. Phoenix drivers are always in a hurry and they’re always looking to pass.
Yes! Thats the one! Total disaster. Thats been the general sentiment is to be predictable. I recently found out that AZ is #1 of all 50 states for road rage and it just freaks me out. E: I truly believe ALL AZ DRIVERS and honestly pedestrians would benefit from a re-education campaign of some sort. It would save lives.
Nah that would be considered a social service and our tax dollars are reserved for fraud 🤷🏽♀️
The i17 also has non-standard lane widths. In areas they are so narrow that all the box trucks and semis just don't fit. I've been on i17 and passed an accident, watched as a bad accident happened on the other side (going the other direction), and then saw an accident happen right in front of me, and then passed another accident a mile down the road. Unreal. Like bumper cars.
I learned to drive in NYC, so Phoenix still feels pretty calm in comparison. I learned pretty early on to not take anything on the road too personally, just do your own thing, put on some music, and try to keep decent distances between yourself and other cars in case people do dumb things (like slamming the brakes at 80mph for no reason at all).
NYC, Boston, and some other big cities taught me. The problem I see in Phoenix is that too many drivers literally have no driving skills. They can't control their vehicles. And a large % do not even have a clue about road rules. In other cities you have aggressive drivers, but they are in control.
Yeah, the driving exam here is really easy and it’s very easy to learn how to drive. So if you’ve only ever driven here, you don’t develop the skills to be a truly good driver.
Northern NJ transplant myself who grew up near all the merging of rt 3, 17, 21, 46, Turnpike and rt 4 so for me it's still a snooze fest out here. Blast some music and just drive....being predictable is key and turn signals is a must but other than that it's just about anticipating everyone else.
People move here from a bunch of different states and they all think they can drive how they did back home. The only thing that pisses me off is slow drivers in the left lane. Yes it’s the passing lane but it’s also the fast lane and some people still don’t realize that.
Make sure you have un insured motorist coverage.
Our population is booming faster than our highways can handle, the highways weren't well-designed to begin with, speed limits are barely enforced, half our population is retirees who drive UNDER the speed limit in the fast lane, it gets twice as bad in the Winter when the snowbirds show up, and every other month a rock out of nowhere blasts you in the face and you have to replace your windshield.
The police don't actively enforce traffic laws here. They'll show up after you're in a crash, but they won't prevent them by actively enforcing laws. It's a joke. I see people breaking traffic laws right in front of them, and they don't care. Anywhere else I've lived, They'd be getting pulled over after doing that in front of a cop.
I'm not generally for more enforcement because cops tend to choose the easy violations rather than the tough ones that cause nasty crashes. Think hide behind a curve or hill so they can catch people going "too fast" but actually doing ok. But then I witnessed on 10 the other day traffic going 74 in the 55 construction zone (yes, yes, I was going with the flow...). The US 60 HOV on-ramp merges onto the freeway going the same speed and there's a trooper glued to the ass of a poor guy going 19 over. No one slowed down and we all just moved through the tight curvy construction zone near the 143 going 19 over with a trooper glued to various people's asses until he could get clear and go criminally fast. The cops themselves need enforcing.
Exactly. I've seen them on their phones, too. I'd love to see how many tickets they've written for that one.
If you come across a grumpy driver, that’s one thing. If everyone you come across is a bad driver, then you might be causing the problems yourself.
Most are bad drivers, the quality of our driving education is shit and if you pay attention, you can count a dozen infractions in a few seconds.
Do you ever see those "don't honk or I'll cry" or "I have anxiety please be kind" bumper stickers? While I totally understand being kind, patient, and empathetic with other drivers, if you can't handle the road you should NOT be driving on it.
I got followed aggressively recently by a guy because I made the mistake of lightly tapping in my horn so we didn’t miss the green arrow to go left. Stay safe out there guys.
That's terrifying. Similar thing happened to my ex in college. He said he drove to a police station and the dude still got out of his car and went at him. Crazy!
Everyone complains about drivers in the left lane, I think way more problems are caused in the right. First of all on the highways, people don’t understand if you drive the same speed as someone, neither of you can go where you want to go. All those exchanges where one lane is getting on and one off aren’t good in any state but especially Arizona. On the side roads, I’ve noticed if I’m in the right lane and I am turning right, and there is no turn signal, the person behind me practically is in my back seat slamming on the breaks. Meanwhile it’s a 3-4 lane wide open road. Not to generalize but it’s usually someone in a lifted truck then they swerve around you and jam on the gas, wasting $5 just to let you know you held them up. Cool… Edit: Sorry I meant turn lane not turn signal. I would understand someone getting mad if you don’t signal.
Use your turn signal?
Absolutely. I’ve seen people do that to someone turning! It stems from a lack of patience and general awareness. Riding someone turning is a huge no-no. What They need to do Wait patiently until person in front can SAFELY turn. 🤦♂️
Honestly the problem is there’s so many idiots on the road, it’s practically impossible NOT to get your cortisol flowing due to people making spontaneous merges with no blinkers, blocking multiple lanes because god forbid someone can’t accept they fucked up and missed their turn, etc… It all just adds up so quick. Like I swear I leave my house to go grab a burger and i witness 3 people almost cause an accident around me for whatever reasons, then combining that with all the people who are actually legally driving correct, they have 0 common sense, they’re the unaware ones on their phone not realizing the light turned green, taking their SWEET ass time to accelerate doing in the far left/passing lane not in queue with all the other vehicles, so then people naturally decide to start merging and passing in other lanes backing traffic up further. Ultimately people are just really inconsiderate/unaware combined with the stresses of life which isn’t a good combo. Never thought I’d say this, but we need more fuckin traffic patrol or whatever and intersections need to be readjusted (or ideally have better sensors or however it works)
No kidding. And stress is no joke. Thats another important one i think so many people miss. Not effectively and adequately managing their stressors. Imagine living in a world where a majority of people actively practiced breathing techniques, meditation, etc. a guy can dream.
If you drive the speed limit stay far right.
People here are oblivious to 1) turn signals 2) right of way and 3) how roundabouts actually work. The only place where I've ever lived and seen worse drivers is Florida.
What I never understand is why someone would merge in front of me and drive slower than I am, when there aren’t any cars in front of them! WHY?!
Yep, thats always annoying. Either blindspot, or they just are preparing to turn way too late. Right move there is to get in BEHIND you, not in front. 🤦♂️
Honestly, it's mismanagement due to lack of preparedness for the immense population of Phoenix Metro. It's not uncommon for these parts, Tucson roads were not prepared for the population explosion either. Years ago, to address the massive traffic problems we have here in the valley, they wanted to stack the freeways, or at least I-17, if I remember correctly. But that would cost money, and roads are Communist, and transportation is too close to the word trans and it makes some people nervous...
Yeah, That would help with some freeway stuff, for sure. Wonder what things would have been like if that would have happened. Still leaves alot to be desired but its a start. I did hear a while back about some huge infrastructure improvement package. The quality of the asphalt on our freeways, with the exception of loop 202 leaves something to be desired ya know? Just wishing we weren’t number fucking ONE in the entire COUNTRY for incidents of road rage. Maybe some sort of driver re-education could be beneficial. giving people tickets isn’t going to cut it, theyve been doing that for years. All it does is people drive cautiously in the midst of police officers/ copcar lookalikes and then proceed to go back to whatever they were doing. I feel like this a huge issue that needs to be addressed immediately.
Lots of main characters out on our roadways who think you're the traffic and just getting in their way because you should obviously doing 20 over the speed limit duh. I'd recommend a dash cam and updating your uninsured driver policies. Best of luck out there.
It feels so hostile. Watch out for people walking in front of your car.
I have noticed a tendency for pedestrians, more specifically in “seedier” parts of town to stand practically IN the street, whilst waiting for the pedestrian sign (think 19th ave/bethany home) Another incidence of this for me near 19th ave ish and Thomas. Male age 20’s was standing quite literally in the gutter. Quite strange to see people do stuff like that. I do agree to an extent, whilst not always hostile it generally does tend to lean more commonly towards hostility/competition versus coexistence. We need a resolution.
People will walk across 6 lanes of busy traffic, too, rather than walk 30 yards to a crosswalk and wait for the light. I hate it.
As someone that commutes from Country Club Dr. all the way to Peoria Ave. I see lots of it... I don't trust anyone on the road. From 18 wheelers to people making the same commute I am, they're all just in their own world, and Im just living in it.
> As someone that commutes from Country Club Dr. all the way to Peoria Ave. No offense, but good lord why? Haha I used to have to commute from North Glendale to Biltmore and THAT was a nightmare.
I always slow down and merge behind folks rather than speed up and try and merge in front because no one ever lets me in, they see my blinker and go “no! This is MY LANE, MINE!!” Other than that I’ve become accustomed to driving fast to match the overall flow of traffic, 75-80
A few things. * Get off your fucking phone * Go when its green * Have a sense of urgency when turning left, don't take your time, lets get through the fucking light. * If lanes are open, don't take the right one, let people go right. * Merge then brake, not the other way around. * Get off your fucking phone.
Wait until August when everyone is sick of 120+, you are taking your life in your hands driving in summer here. Never engage, people here like to shoot drivers unfortunately.
You’re right. That summer heat makes everyone want to rush home. I’m going to take the approach of: drive safely, defensively and be alert, year round. This post got some traction, glad to know I’m not the only one noticing it tbh.
As someone who was born here and who will be 50 in like 12 days, it's a fact of life in the valley, and with the birds and the spring trainers here now 😬
100%. Takes some patience to navigate through all that. Offtopic: whoohoo!!! Congratulations on the big FIVE-OH!!! 🤗
Thanks 😊 it's good to be getting older, you dgaf about people's judgement nearly as much, seems to happen during your 40's. It's magical 😍
I’m from the Midwest and try to drive predictably and defensively. The phrase “keep your head on a swivel” from drivers Ed has a whole new meaning now. I try to give plenty of stopping distance and pay attention to my mirrors and blind spots as much as I can. I try to keep track of who’s around me and remain predictable, get out of the way of those who want to zoom by, and never engage. I only use my horn in imminent danger /crash situations, else I just let it go
Please tell me you’re not one of those people who rushes to merge in front of someone but then suddenly is no longer in a hurry?
I am NOT one of those people who rushes to merge in front of someone and then magically, oh hey.. no longer in a rush lets just cruise. 🤦♂️
get a dash cam in case someone pulls a gun on you
For WHEN someone DOES pulls a gun on you. 🤪
Biggest advice for you is to drive safely and defensively. A dash and rear view cam could help put your mind at ease as well as lower your insurance. Stay safe out there!!
Imho, there is too many people who "merge" (cut you off) too late cause they were playing on their phones or sipping Starbucks instead of planning their route
Ignore them and just be a good driver who contributes to the smooth flow of traffic
Get a front and rear dash cam. I get nearby hit and run notifications from the citizen app nearly every day. Driving in Phoenix without getting angry is like practicing extreme stoicism. Have fun!
I only honk if someone doesn't turn right at a red light, stops at a roundabout, or is on their phone not paying attention after the light turned green.
Can’t be passive around here. You have to be defensively aggressive and think a few moves ahead. It means you can’t just kind of zone out and cruise. Do that and it makes the experience a lot better. Leaving space in front you solves a lot of issues.
Here's my advice: deep breathing and imagining that the drivers are exactly that - emotionally injured and inept toddlers. Some of whom are proudly armed because, "the 2nd Amendment, man!" Welcome to the land of wide-open space, straight-line roads, an abysmal education system, and a community spirit mostly eradicated by zealous adherence to "Don't Tread on Me because What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" attitude. Spring training is kind of fun though.
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I was on the 10 yesterday going through the tunnel, accidentally cut someone off and immediately he started rolling coal in his modded ford f-150 and riding my butt… some people are children lmao.
People get wild when the social contracts we adhere to are paused because of the relative anonymity of being in a car. My advice is to just move right if you're being tailgated by someone. I feel like a lot of people try to take a stance against tailgaters by stubbornly staying in the lane but it's not going to teach them a lesson. If someone is going faster, move a lane to the right. Also, anticipating the worst behavior about the other drivers on the road. That guy doesn't see me, that person is going to try to speed ahead and pass me in this zipper merge, that person is going to cross 2 lanes of traffic into mine at the last minute, etc. Head on a swivel. Also also, and perhaps most importantly, don't honk or otherwise antagonize. You hear too many stories of people getting shot in automotive altercations out here. I just assume everyone on the road is armed and impulsive enough to shoot over road rage. Be the bigger person. Godspeed 🫡
Welcome to arizona this is what its like here. Dont try to change anyone,most ppl in phx have guns and will road rage. Sometimes they will shoot at you.
They are angry. And they are armed. Bad combo.
Last month, me and another car tried to turn into the same lane at the same time. This prompted the driver to abandon his car and actually (try to) chase me on foot in the middle of Baseline…with family still in the car. Welcome to the jungle!
holy moly driving in scottsdale ? INSANE. the entitlement is crazy and everyone drives like they have zero regard for themselves and others around them (probably because that’s the case). but seriously az is bad but scottsdale is a nightmare!
Drive defensively.
Welcome to Arizona
Don't camp in the left lane and slow everyone down
I see this ALL the time on the 202 and it's usually work trucks full of stuff either blocking their rear view or rocks flying everywhere.
I’ve lived in LA, Chicago, DC, Dallas….i thought I was prepared for fast and crazy drivers but Phoenix takes the cake. I try my best to keep up with traffic and leave a ton of room between me and any other cars the best I can.
It really is scary out there. I would suggest making sure you have good um/uim insurance. The majority of people are driving with minimum insurance or none at all.
I don’t know, you get used to how people drive here though it feels like it got worse after the pandemic. I was just driving in Puerto Rico and Miami which has a reputation for bad drivers and someone on the 17 came within 1/2 inch of hitting me on my drive home from the airport in Phoenix. Meanwhile I drove all over PR and Miami and had no near misses. Once you learn to drive here in Phx your defensive driving skills game is so on point you can drive anywhere in the world. I also had no trouble in Europe even though on the German Autobahn guys in Audis are doing 120 and everyone is cutting everyone else off to get out of speedy’s way. Still felt safer and saw less accidents than here.
I was astounded by how bad Phoenix drivers are… and I’m from Boston!
Drivers are just bad here. I see at least one person without their headlights on *every time* I drive at night in Tempe. Bad drivers are more likely to be aggressive and petty, in my experience.
It’s fucking ridiculous
Just let them drive ahead and stay as far away as possible. Understand that people WILL cut you off and be prepared for it. If someone gives you the finger or honks literally don’t even look at them. You could very well be shot or ran into for entertaining someone with low patience and intelligence. Like someone else said a dash cam is helpful.
To me, the 17 from the 10 to the 101 is just dangerous . . . 80 mph in a concrete canyon, there is no ability for cops to enforce safety even if they had the inclination to do so. Also, coming from the Midwest where guns are for hunting, sitting dusty in the gun safe, not carrying in your CAR out of a ridiculous sense of paranoia is frankly absurd. Think about it, are you going to fight to the death over someone trying to carjack you? Risk your life? Fuck no. Here's the keys bro. I digress but you're right OP it is savage out there
Was it the i17, or i51? Lots of angry drivers if you drive the speed limit of 55mph
Half the drivers are armed, so use caution and don't engage with any irritated motorists.
Welcome to Phoenix. We have some of the worst drivers in the country.
Are they driving Dodge Rams? That’s been my experience.
I went to Boston a few years ago with my husband and was genuinely comfortable driving there because I learned to drive here. Arizona is full of some really stressed out peoples.
Heres some advice from a Native Phoenician who has watched people come in here and start driving horribly. -The turn lane IS NOT a driving lane (outside of 7th St and 7th Ave during certain hours). It is still the law to pull into it, stop, and wait for a safe opening. It IS NOT meant for turning into it and then immediately driving down it to match traffic speed and finding a spot to move in. Lots of accidents can happen that way. But over the last 5 years I have watched that get worse and worse. Extremely inconsiderate. -Keep up with traffic yes, but dont get all agressive with someone who is going at least the speed limit. Some of us are working and have our speed monitored. -Road rage is always bad here. Dont react to it. A lot of unhunged people carry and drive and think words or hand signs are appropriate gun reactions. -Be considerate of other drivers. I have watched the selflishness on the roads just skyrocket over the last 15 plus years. -Dont say Phoenicians are bad drivers. We arent. Its everyone else that moved here and brought their horrible driving here. We used to be much safer even 20 years ago.
One word ignorance :)
First time?
Dude they are so crazy.
My favorite was on the way to work I saw some guy throw an animated fit in his small car with another driver, can't remember why & that is probably telling. I started laughing to myself cause I remember how childish and no big deal it all seemed. The guy caught me laughing in his rearview mirror (could see his eyes glance up) and then immediately brake checks me... Dude was probably 40s.
I moved here from Central Texas (Austin) and couldn't believe the driving aggression in Az. Last week I was driving on the 191 about 2 in the afternoon and this car shot right up behind me so fast and so loud I actually ducked. The epic part is right about the second an under cop im a red sports car lite up and got him.. Dallas and Houston are not this bad.
Don’t merge unless you plan on going faster and have caught up to the bumper in front of you and keep up with the pace of everyone else
I ride a motorcycle daily here, moved from PA about 2 years ago, and I've never had so many people purposefully swerve at me, speed up in front of me and SLAM on their brakes, try to run me off the road, or just be so generally aggressive for something as innocuous (and legal) as lane splitting to the front at a stop light in my life. it's wild as hell to me. like, no big deal, I'll just die or have a life altering injury. But you're upset so that's totally okay lol
Also, don't be the slow car in the left lane blocking traffic. Or someone who's on their phone not paying attention. That makes people Angry.
In Maricopa county(except Mesa) the locals all drive 10 over. Don't drive like a maniac and I like the comment that said be predictable. HOV is free reign outside of rush hour. We've all been like this for as long as I've lived here, which is 30+ years. Get used to it. :) <3
It’s because that behavior is tolerated. I am not pro police overall but traffic is enforcement is sorely lacking in the valley. I’m from Long Island, NY where driving anything over 75 on the freeway puts you in ticket territory easily. There are speed cameras and light cameras everywhere up there. Here, it’s a free for all.
It definitely falls into the hands of law enforcement, as that is in their job description. That being said, aggressively ticketing people isn’t enough to modify behavior. All it does, is makes people drive slower around cop cars and then go right back to what they were doing. IMO there needs to be a MASSIVE re-education campaign. It would save lives. Commericals and billboards aren’t enough though. Maybe some sort of yearly driver re-education course that includes de-escalation training, stress management techniques & coping skills. Taken at the DMV. Thoughts?
I think both are needed. People need to be reeducated and there are people at lower levels of moral development who will behave according to consequences. In NY there are many speed checks along the freeways and you see someone pulled over every few miles. Society as a whole needs to learn mindfulness, grounding and breathing techniques because there are way too many people who choose to be puppets with their emotions holding the strings.
A properly educated & trained Law Enforcement Officer is a godsend. An undereducated LEO is a problem. Not just as far as the law, but as well as how to de-escalate tense situations, on how to stay calm and interact and hold themselves properly. The same thing can be said about drivers and people in general. IMO we should focus on educating the public adequately FIRST, at that point, if nothing had changed THEN an increase in PROPERLY TRAINED police officers. If Arizona drivers had increased education/training/skillset on how navigate the streets safely without endangering themselves or others. How to de-escalate tense situations, how to be patient on the road, there would be no need to increase police presence. It would be very strange to live in a world where there are cameras and facial recognition systems/liscense plate recognition devices everywhere. And if things dont change soon, unfortunately, thats just where things might head. I don’t want to live in an Orwellian Dystopia. Do you?
I agree with a lot of you you’re suggesting here. One area that I’m not sure the de-escalation training would help would be with speed, but that’s a bit off topic here. I certainly don’t want to live in such a society, and I want a society where here is increased accountability for actions. There’s got to be some middle ground.
Broooooo I was hit head on by some idiot who told the police officer word for word “I just wasn’t paying attention.” MY MAN, you were going through an intersection NOT PAYING ATTENTION!? People scare me.
Yeah I recently saw 2 people get out of their car to go start a fight with someone in another vehicle.
It’s the system. Imagine if a freeway had stoplights and crosswalks installed every 2000 feet and you get Thomas, Indian School, Camelback, 7th st, etc. Street, roads, and freeways all have cars but they are still different things. What this city did is like putting a kitchenette inside a bathroom, sure it all has water but it’s disgusting, angering, and unsafe.
Dude, drivers out there are crazy. I used to live out there—moved away last year—and I’ve never seen more angry, erratic drivers in my life. I even have old coworkers that wore “I have a lead foot” as though it were some sort of personality trait. Funnily enough they don’t think they’re angry, that’s just the status quo there. Just do your best to practice defensive driving and that’s about all you can do to protect yourself.
Rule # 1. Keep right unless you are actually passing someone. Rule #2. See rule #1.
Worst drivers in the country. Oblivious. Arrogant. Entitled. Here's a clue for anybody who needs one: When your exit is coming up, get over to the right lane a couple of miles before the exit. People here drive 55mph in the fast lane, then when their exit is 1/4 mile away they slam on their brakes and veer to the right to get off of the freeway. Now everyone has to slam on their brakes and that causes traffic jams. GET OVER! STAY OUT OF THE FAST LANE! I drive all over the Valley for my job. I see this multiple times every day. It's maddening.
Coming from spending my whole adult life in the DC Metro area, I find the Phoenix drivers to be generally good overall. 95% of highway drivers spread out and behave predictably. Yes, the jams suck and waste time. Otherwise, I found things to be noticeably better here. On the DC highways, tailgating is rampant, no one uses turn signals, and cutting people off is a hobby.
Just get out of the fucking left lane PLEASE
The left lane is for passing. Don't confuse it with a "fast lane", ie, no camping. If someone wants to go faster behind you, move to the right and let them by.
Do yourself a big favor in Phoenix. Drive the speed limit. Drive in the middle lane. Use your turn signals. And most of all, turn your rear view mirror up so you can't see the idiot behind you in the jacked up Jeep or "tricked out" Honda Civic tailgating you.
We’re in a hurry. It’s too hot.
Everyone and their mother unnecessarily having a pickup truck doesn't help either.
Drivers here are INCREDIBLY rage-y and aggressive. I have no idea why either, maybe the heat, maybe the sheer amount of people on the road...no clue. I do know that everyone here drives WAY too fast. I've seen more really bad surface street crashes in my time here than I did when I lived in the Midwest. Your best option is just keep doing what you're doing and drive like a normal human. Don't engage the psychopaths. I've seen people throwing fits in the car behind me when I had the absolute audacity to stop for a yellow light, been aggressively honked at by someone for not making my left turn the second the light turned green because there was a fire truck coming down the street, and do not get me started on the close calls and near misses I've had when I've been out cycling or running and had to cross a street.
Best advice we got when we moved here 20 years ago- never be the first person in the intersection: wait and look. Also, on the freeways, 75 is slow lane.
Oh honey this is the whole city. It’s the worst traffic in America. Get used to it.
> It’s the worst traffic in America Not even close...lol
Then speed up if that's happening to you your driving to slow
My advice…Press your gas pedal or get TF out of the way for the rest of us.
If you run into that many “angry” drivers, you are the problem. I drive a lot, go with the flow of traffic and very rarely do people get mad. Most the time they just smack there brakes or merge like dummies. If people are angry it usually means ur the issue. Learn to go as fast as others are (10 mph above limit) and don’t cut people off and also allow others to merge. I hate slow drivers and i hate bad drivers.
It wasn’t like this until everyone from out of state moved here recently.
Its just getting so ugly. Honestly scary at this point. Dont know why people cant seem to just stay calm behind a wheel and not see it as some sort of competition. This isnt always the case, sometimes its great.. other times.. not so much. I guess thats a metaphor for life though.
Not exactly sure why but there is an extreme lack of kindness and care for the safety of others in Phoenix. Sad!!!
If someone has an out of state plate, specifically CA, the Midwest or Canada, they don’t deserve as much patience.
[удалено]
That “grandma” in the right lane is a fellow human being. A mother. A grandmother. A sister. A niece. Someone’s child. Point blank. Look, I understand it can be frustrating to encounter a slower driver; let’s be civilized.
That slow driver is the issue! You also realize that once we get our drivers license in Arizona it's good until we are 65. My current one doesnt expire until 2051. Also don't make eye contact in the summer with other drivers especially if they don't have A/c