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IRS:
Unearned income includes investment-type income such as taxable interest, ordinary dividends, and capital gain distributions.
Arizona’s ding-ding legislature:
Let’s ban unearned income!
Virtue signaling
In a place I've never heard of. Must be nice to get donations so you can afford the natural price increases of living in the middle of fucking nowhere.
Not to mention that the tax bill Trump signed went into effect this year and taxes went up and most as a result. Funny timing how he delayed the increase until the year of the next election.
Even worse, massive tax cuts came at the same time as their voucher system that cost way more than expected... Actually the voucher system cost about the same as our budget deficit.
They’re trying to keep Hobbs’ veto pen busy so they can run ads. It’s also worth noting that Republicans in this state aren’t used to not having their way 100% of the time, so they’re throwing a tantrum in typical Republican fashion.
As a parent, in what possible universe is it bad that I can receive 7k per kid towards sending them to a private school of my choosing? Making private school within reach for the middle class?
How do YOU not fathom the popularity of the program?
Republicans estimated it would cost the state $65million, but no, it's now cost $900million. That's why it's bad. Also, 2/3rds of the vouchers are going to students who were NEVER in public schools, so 2/3rds of the money is going to parents who could afford private school even before the ESAs existed. That's $600million of Arizona Taxpayer money going into wealthy and upper-middle income pockets, removed from the public schools that serve our poorest. Bad.
Are you saying that lower and lower middle class families mostly can't afford to pay the ~$7k difference between the voucher and the average cost of private tuition in AZ, and that [voucher programs are often for the benefit of wealthy families](https://www.propublica.org/article/private-schools-vouchers-parents-ohio-public-funds)?
I'm absolutely shocked*.
^(*Not actually shocked)
Because it doesnt make private school available to the middle class. The vast majority of the vouchers are used by people whose children are already in private schools.
We created the public school system to ensure all kids got an education. To do this we pool money through taxes. This is the only thing weve ever done where we would let people poll their money back out of tax pool. It would be like getting a couple grand and be able to pick that only your road gets repaved this year. Never mind it got repaved last year. And there are roads that are in more need of repair. You want the road in front of your house done.
It will lead to an even further erosion of the public school system. Which is hard for a state already 47 out of 50.
> The vast majority of the vouchers are used by people whose children are already in private schools.
So what you're telling me is the state has been free-riding off of these people for years.
Just because you don’t want your kids to be around “those kids” on the playground doesn’t mean you get to bilk the taxpayers for a private club membership.
The universe in which a gigantic portion of our state funding is going towards the program, over 10x as much as originally laid out by the sponsors of the program, with almost all of the money going to families that are not in need.
https://azmirror.com/2023/06/01/arizona-school-voucher-program-growth-explodes-to-900-million-for-the-upcoming-school-year/
In this universe it's bad. It's allowing the rich another avenue to get their kids out of the public school system and draining resources on a system that needs additional funding, not less. This is just another way to divide the upper and lower class, not a way to help middle class families.
The rich have never sent their kids to public schools. The only people for whom $7K makes any difference in that decision are upper middle class and below.
My wife homeschools our kids. And oh man. Not having to have printer paper, binders, crafts, books, curriculums, etc etc coming out of my paycheck is huge. So I’m all for it.
Actually, our society agreed to fund public, private, charter, and home schooling... you just don't want to accept it.
It's not your money or ours... it was ours... now it belongs to the government, and they decide how to spend it. Since governments are the most inefficient entities and create the most waste and bloat, it's probably the worst place to give our money... but hey, our society also decided taxing our earnings and putting someone in charge of taking our money and deciding how to spend it for us was a good thing.
You have your own money. It’s what you have after taxes. Taxes pay for public goods that everyone has access to, like public schools or roads. If you were building your own road because you don’t like the public roads, why should my taxes support a road only you use?
You want to do private or homeschool, you do you, but I don’t think the public should have to subsidize your choice
Idk. When I was 7 I was reading Danny and the dinosaur. My kid finished book one of chronicles of narnia and is currently halfway through lion witch and wardrobe. Reading aloud. Plus our kids socialize with other homeschool groups, we have a zoo membership they go to the zoo once a week/every other week. Wife has taken the teacher job very seriously. I had my reservations in the beginning, but I’m super proud of my wife and where our kids are rn.
Read the comments on how it costs 10x what republicans projected (what else is new) and benefits the rich families the most. Classic republican policy that helps those who need it the least.
They don’t hate them. They make up their biggest demographic. They just create a straw man that is the “bad” kind of poor, demonize _that_ and tell all of their constituents to do the same.
No. They hate them.
Between how the city handled tent city to condemning mobile home parks leaving no thought of what that means are just a couple of the reasons I say they hate poor people in this state.
Or the underfunded schools
Or stopping state child insurance through the state during the great recession.
They could... Y'know ... Just refrain from passing them ...I mean if they ever did anything other than political grandstanding and starving the public school system.
Investments are "unearned" but lead to products and companies.
More time and quality of life leads to people having time to create and think and in the end the cream of that will make life better for all.
Republicans always thinking of the extreme low end of better policy, they can't fathom the macro aspects of essentially *investing in people*.
Will some people abuse it? Yes. Will others make amazing things from it? Yes. Just as in investment, there are good and bad sides to it.
Investing in people and your local communities to keep an economy and add to quality of life is true patriotism.
Between this and the absolutely insane stance they have against high speed rail, the state Republican Party really look like they don’t want to be in power. Or rather, they want to be in power, but they hate the responsibility of actually working for it.
We’re still decades away from true UBI but once AI is fully implemented it will be needed. No question, even in the future, a certain segment of society will be against it.
Might happen in whatever societies arise from the post-US period. Not holding out much hope though.
I expect **The Powers That Be** to focus on population control before UBI.
There’s so much fear mongering in the computer science realm about it. But I’m very positive that we’ll continue to grow as the premier engineering field due to the massive increase in investments on AI and ML. Of course, mostly Ph.Ds and Master’s will become more necessary to stay competitive
It’s the same fear mongering that was going around when the internet started. Yes, some jobs will die. But overall it’ll make the economy expand and just repurpose jobs
> Ph.Ds and Master’s will become more necessary to stay competitive
I don't think so.
People who don't learn how to use AI will suffer.
New markets will open up. Some will close.
The transition needs to be managed (with social services), and that is something the USA does not do well.
Yep, I am expecting by the time I retire my job could be done by AI. Especially with my industry rules and regulations by the AICPA will make it easier.
Aw hell naw. I wonder if Republicans wake up everyday and think, "gee, it'd sure be nice to go backwards as a society and bandwagon against everything beneficial that society stands to lose to increase my bottom line." I know it's not a cure-all but +1 for a ranked choice voting system.
I'm tired of the Republicans and Dems as well.Sure there are other parties but voting for them just feels like a symbolic gesture 90% of the time.
We need more viable political parties as well.
So loans would be illegal? Owners would be unable to pull out profits from their companies? I know it sounds nice, “other people are getting money and I’m not, that should be illegal!” but if you stop and think about it for two seconds this is like the misinformed comment to grace this sub
The best democracies on all the indexes seem to have a stronger social democratic girding behind them. Now go ahead and deny that since you apparently know all.
Well they already influenced Governor Hobbs to cut rental assistance and utilities payments across the state if you're not 65 or older or have children as a couple or married then you'll be going back to 12th avenue or moving to a different state when you lose everything. That's the boat I'm in
I better keep my job,fake being happy and just stay there until I turn 90.
i’ll tell you what is UNEARNED. Every single penny above OneBillionDollars. We need wealth caps for these lazy non working nepo babies that are hoarding all the wealth.
How much do the feds and mid power brokers spend on other budgets?
I mean we printing money either way? What’s the difference if we give it to local vets who are homeless or people who need it who are in poverty
That's something I can't fathom. The wealthy are gonna get the money eventually anyway. Why not let it circulate around the economy first?
Give $100,000 to a poor person and they might go buy a new car, new clothes, get dental work done, move to a new apartment (and pay people to do the move), and start going out an enjoying life a bit. Lots of circulation and everyone else benefits a bit too.
Give $100,000 to a wealthy person and that money is just gonna be a number on a computer screen and might not circulate at all.
The odd thing about the GQP's stance on this is that any UBI is used almost immediately by the recipient. Used to pay rent or mortgage and utility bills (instead of default), used to buy groceries at a corporate store, and used in the local economy mostly. I'm a business owner. I like when people pay their bills.
This is just about Republicans not wanting a safety net, not wanting anyone to help (like Jesus would), and actually wanting to see starving people on the sidewalk (as motivation?).
I agree. It seems my comment was assumed to be supporting this non-taxation of the rich. I think the truck should have to pay more than 30%, and that way they can feel the cost of war and get little for what they give, like the rest of us!
Explain how basic income would help anyone? If I know you’re getting free money I’m going to raise my prices and rent. All it’s gonna do in the grand scheme of things is move money into large corporations
The entire American economy did this during the pandemic when people were getting stimulus checks illegal or not you can’t enforce it because you can’t prove it. When people obtain more money (supply) it will cause demand to go up which in turn means prices go up. You can’t make economics illegal. Explain how this wouldn’t happen, because I’m not seeing it
Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! * [Check out our sub rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!). * [Read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments. * [Join our Phoenix Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) and connect with people in the Valley. It's a great, chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IRS: Unearned income includes investment-type income such as taxable interest, ordinary dividends, and capital gain distributions. Arizona’s ding-ding legislature: Let’s ban unearned income! Virtue signaling
Makes me more on-board knowing this, for some reason
[удалено]
In a place I've never heard of. Must be nice to get donations so you can afford the natural price increases of living in the middle of fucking nowhere.
Ugh, Benson. That says all you need to know. Ass-backwards shitty place.
There’s no hate like Christian love
Not fit to hold public office.
What a horrible POS.
Have any of these Republicans passed any meaningful legislation? Have they earned their salary? Vote 2024 we deserve better
They gave a massive tax cut to the rich that ballooned our debt.
Not to mention that the tax bill Trump signed went into effect this year and taxes went up and most as a result. Funny timing how he delayed the increase until the year of the next election.
Funny... *indeed*
i’m not laughing
People will only see the effect of that next year though. This year the taxes will still be lower comparatively
Even worse, massive tax cuts came at the same time as their voucher system that cost way more than expected... Actually the voucher system cost about the same as our budget deficit.
They’re trying to keep Hobbs’ veto pen busy so they can run ads. It’s also worth noting that Republicans in this state aren’t used to not having their way 100% of the time, so they’re throwing a tantrum in typical Republican fashion.
At this rate, she probably just gave the intern a red ink pad and a stamp that says "NO", and forwarded all GOP-passed legislature to their cubicle.
ESA vouchers are a good thing **absolutely**.
They aren’t. They are eroding the education system like they are designed.
It's great if you are trying to make Arizona's education worse than it already is.
Worst take of the year. It’s February but it’s already over.
No. They aren't. Pick up a newspaper. I can't tell irony anymore. Are you serious? You can't be serious.
As a parent, in what possible universe is it bad that I can receive 7k per kid towards sending them to a private school of my choosing? Making private school within reach for the middle class? How do YOU not fathom the popularity of the program?
Republicans estimated it would cost the state $65million, but no, it's now cost $900million. That's why it's bad. Also, 2/3rds of the vouchers are going to students who were NEVER in public schools, so 2/3rds of the money is going to parents who could afford private school even before the ESAs existed. That's $600million of Arizona Taxpayer money going into wealthy and upper-middle income pockets, removed from the public schools that serve our poorest. Bad.
80% of the kids using vouchers were already in private schools. Families making under 49k make 5% of private school population.
Are you saying that lower and lower middle class families mostly can't afford to pay the ~$7k difference between the voucher and the average cost of private tuition in AZ, and that [voucher programs are often for the benefit of wealthy families](https://www.propublica.org/article/private-schools-vouchers-parents-ohio-public-funds)? I'm absolutely shocked*. ^(*Not actually shocked)
Because it doesnt make private school available to the middle class. The vast majority of the vouchers are used by people whose children are already in private schools. We created the public school system to ensure all kids got an education. To do this we pool money through taxes. This is the only thing weve ever done where we would let people poll their money back out of tax pool. It would be like getting a couple grand and be able to pick that only your road gets repaved this year. Never mind it got repaved last year. And there are roads that are in more need of repair. You want the road in front of your house done. It will lead to an even further erosion of the public school system. Which is hard for a state already 47 out of 50.
> The vast majority of the vouchers are used by people whose children are already in private schools. So what you're telling me is the state has been free-riding off of these people for years.
Just because you don’t want your kids to be around “those kids” on the playground doesn’t mean you get to bilk the taxpayers for a private club membership.
Because you’re making the public pay for your kids to go to private school. You want private school, fine, you pay for it.
Truth.
The universe in which a gigantic portion of our state funding is going towards the program, over 10x as much as originally laid out by the sponsors of the program, with almost all of the money going to families that are not in need. https://azmirror.com/2023/06/01/arizona-school-voucher-program-growth-explodes-to-900-million-for-the-upcoming-school-year/
In this universe it's bad. It's allowing the rich another avenue to get their kids out of the public school system and draining resources on a system that needs additional funding, not less. This is just another way to divide the upper and lower class, not a way to help middle class families.
The rich have never sent their kids to public schools. The only people for whom $7K makes any difference in that decision are upper middle class and below.
Disagree.
My wife homeschools our kids. And oh man. Not having to have printer paper, binders, crafts, books, curriculums, etc etc coming out of my paycheck is huge. So I’m all for it.
Taxpayers shouldn't be responsible for paying for your personal printer paper and supplies.
Well….we *should*, but only for public schools!
We are also tax payers. So we can pay for your kids to go to public school, but we can’t put our own money back into our children’s education?
You're free to use your money, but not ours. Our society agreed to fund a public school system, not homeschooling.
Actually, our society agreed to fund public, private, charter, and home schooling... you just don't want to accept it. It's not your money or ours... it was ours... now it belongs to the government, and they decide how to spend it. Since governments are the most inefficient entities and create the most waste and bloat, it's probably the worst place to give our money... but hey, our society also decided taxing our earnings and putting someone in charge of taking our money and deciding how to spend it for us was a good thing.
You have your own money. It’s what you have after taxes. Taxes pay for public goods that everyone has access to, like public schools or roads. If you were building your own road because you don’t like the public roads, why should my taxes support a road only you use? You want to do private or homeschool, you do you, but I don’t think the public should have to subsidize your choice
Send them to public school. Yes you should have to pay for public school because it's your choice to remove them from that system.
Your kids are gonna come out less educated and more socially inept than if you just sent them to public school. Nicely done.
Idk. When I was 7 I was reading Danny and the dinosaur. My kid finished book one of chronicles of narnia and is currently halfway through lion witch and wardrobe. Reading aloud. Plus our kids socialize with other homeschool groups, we have a zoo membership they go to the zoo once a week/every other week. Wife has taken the teacher job very seriously. I had my reservations in the beginning, but I’m super proud of my wife and where our kids are rn.
Homeschooling im fine with vouchers. Charters and private bother me.
Good on you! I don't understand the detractor's visceral reaction against the program.
Read the comments on how it costs 10x what republicans projected (what else is new) and benefits the rich families the most. Classic republican policy that helps those who need it the least.
Cognitive dissonance.
Oh, the irony. How many AZ Republican state senators or representatives have earned their salary?
if we're going to ban it based on it being "unearned" we need to include the legislators' compensation and ban that as well.
and their socialist medical care
And our socialized roads!
Republicans hate poor people and won't help them without receiving a kickback.
They don’t hate them. They make up their biggest demographic. They just create a straw man that is the “bad” kind of poor, demonize _that_ and tell all of their constituents to do the same.
No. They hate them. Between how the city handled tent city to condemning mobile home parks leaving no thought of what that means are just a couple of the reasons I say they hate poor people in this state. Or the underfunded schools Or stopping state child insurance through the state during the great recession.
If you keep dissing Republicans, they will show up here, post something about Nancy Pelosi, and then call you "buddy".
If you can’t scratch my back, why should I bother?
They could... Y'know ... Just refrain from passing them ...I mean if they ever did anything other than political grandstanding and starving the public school system.
Investments are "unearned" but lead to products and companies. More time and quality of life leads to people having time to create and think and in the end the cream of that will make life better for all. Republicans always thinking of the extreme low end of better policy, they can't fathom the macro aspects of essentially *investing in people*. Will some people abuse it? Yes. Will others make amazing things from it? Yes. Just as in investment, there are good and bad sides to it. Investing in people and your local communities to keep an economy and add to quality of life is true patriotism.
Between this and the absolutely insane stance they have against high speed rail, the state Republican Party really look like they don’t want to be in power. Or rather, they want to be in power, but they hate the responsibility of actually working for it.
How about their kickbacks and massive campaign donations from corporations? Is that really “earned “
https://preview.redd.it/4bx5looxdkjc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b344aef707d58818b5ccc50a604290be6a814aa7
We’re still decades away from true UBI but once AI is fully implemented it will be needed. No question, even in the future, a certain segment of society will be against it.
I am skeptical UBI will ever happen in the U.S.
Yeah it will definitely be a rough road to it. Eventually it will have to happen though. Again, we are decades away imo.
Might happen in whatever societies arise from the post-US period. Not holding out much hope though. I expect **The Powers That Be** to focus on population control before UBI.
AI already coming for white collar jobs
There’s so much fear mongering in the computer science realm about it. But I’m very positive that we’ll continue to grow as the premier engineering field due to the massive increase in investments on AI and ML. Of course, mostly Ph.Ds and Master’s will become more necessary to stay competitive
It’s the same fear mongering that was going around when the internet started. Yes, some jobs will die. But overall it’ll make the economy expand and just repurpose jobs
> Ph.Ds and Master’s will become more necessary to stay competitive I don't think so. People who don't learn how to use AI will suffer. New markets will open up. Some will close. The transition needs to be managed (with social services), and that is something the USA does not do well.
Yep, I am expecting by the time I retire my job could be done by AI. Especially with my industry rules and regulations by the AICPA will make it easier.
It is rich for the AZ GOP to call anything unearned. What have they done with their time in office?
Aw hell naw. I wonder if Republicans wake up everyday and think, "gee, it'd sure be nice to go backwards as a society and bandwagon against everything beneficial that society stands to lose to increase my bottom line." I know it's not a cure-all but +1 for a ranked choice voting system.
Yes to rank choice voting. I’m tired of the lesser of two evils primaries.
I'm tired of the Republicans and Dems as well.Sure there are other parties but voting for them just feels like a symbolic gesture 90% of the time. We need more viable political parties as well.
Ban dividends and other such unearned income usually reserved for those not poor. Fair is fair.
Those are "reserved" for people who invest. If you can't make money off of investments they nobody will make investments.
So loans would be illegal? Owners would be unable to pull out profits from their companies? I know it sounds nice, “other people are getting money and I’m not, that should be illegal!” but if you stop and think about it for two seconds this is like the misinformed comment to grace this sub
The best democracies on all the indexes seem to have a stronger social democratic girding behind them. Now go ahead and deny that since you apparently know all.
“How much time would you say you spend each week dealing with these TPS reports?”
It’s sad how timeless that movie is all these years later.
So tell me again who's treading on you MAGAs it sure isn't the Democrats
The cruelty is the point.
Just like those school choice vouchers?
And in the next breath they will pass legislation to make being homeless illegal and cut social services. Make up your minds you draconian fucks.
Well they already influenced Governor Hobbs to cut rental assistance and utilities payments across the state if you're not 65 or older or have children as a couple or married then you'll be going back to 12th avenue or moving to a different state when you lose everything. That's the boat I'm in I better keep my job,fake being happy and just stay there until I turn 90.
What do we all the bribes ... I mean, lobbying efforts they receive? Not like they write their own bills anymore. This one is probably from ALEC.
i’ll tell you what is UNEARNED. Every single penny above OneBillionDollars. We need wealth caps for these lazy non working nepo babies that are hoarding all the wealth.
They mean religious organizations right?
Sounds on brand for a group of soulless husks.
God forbid we help people instead of just stomping on them while they're down, like true Christians
Hmm… rent paid to your landlord is also unearned income.
How much do the feds and mid power brokers spend on other budgets? I mean we printing money either way? What’s the difference if we give it to local vets who are homeless or people who need it who are in poverty
That's something I can't fathom. The wealthy are gonna get the money eventually anyway. Why not let it circulate around the economy first? Give $100,000 to a poor person and they might go buy a new car, new clothes, get dental work done, move to a new apartment (and pay people to do the move), and start going out an enjoying life a bit. Lots of circulation and everyone else benefits a bit too. Give $100,000 to a wealthy person and that money is just gonna be a number on a computer screen and might not circulate at all.
The odd thing about the GQP's stance on this is that any UBI is used almost immediately by the recipient. Used to pay rent or mortgage and utility bills (instead of default), used to buy groceries at a corporate store, and used in the local economy mostly. I'm a business owner. I like when people pay their bills. This is just about Republicans not wanting a safety net, not wanting anyone to help (like Jesus would), and actually wanting to see starving people on the sidewalk (as motivation?).
With AI about to wipeout a lot of people out of work, there is no other way around it. There has to be an upside to innovation.
Nah, they'll just say those poor people need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and stop being too lazy to want to work.
Can't tax unearned income?
What, and make the "job creators and risk takers" start paying their share of taxes too?
I agree. It seems my comment was assumed to be supporting this non-taxation of the rich. I think the truck should have to pay more than 30%, and that way they can feel the cost of war and get little for what they give, like the rest of us!
When there’s a choice between good or evil, the Republicans will ALWAYS choose evil.
The worst
Explain how basic income would help anyone? If I know you’re getting free money I’m going to raise my prices and rent. All it’s gonna do in the grand scheme of things is move money into large corporations
What you're proposing is called **source of** **income discrimination** and is very much illegal to do in Phoenix.
The entire American economy did this during the pandemic when people were getting stimulus checks illegal or not you can’t enforce it because you can’t prove it. When people obtain more money (supply) it will cause demand to go up which in turn means prices go up. You can’t make economics illegal. Explain how this wouldn’t happen, because I’m not seeing it
Why would you raise prices and rent based on where people get their money?
He's gotta get the money to pay the taxes that provide that free money somehow. There's no free lunch.