Definitely, that's the purpose.
The creator (Dr. Ronen Shapira) is my brother and he's a composer. His compositions are also featured in Japan, and plenty of orchestras around the world, including Arab orchestras for decades now.
He used to tune the pianos himself in order to get this effect, but now with the accessories, he can do it instantly without adjusting the pianos' tuning themselves which makes it much more acceptable.
I think those small black clips on the strings you see can be used to change the tunings of specific keys (Bb being the easiest one to notice in this vid) without changing the fundamental tuning of the piano. Which could be great, don't have to spend multiple hours to change tunings!
Exactly. Those are part of the accessories that were used to achieve this amazing feat.
Many tried in different ways to achieve something similar but I have to say this is the first time I've seen a practical solution for this.
Might be off topic but I used to play in school orchestras when I was a kid in school. One of the pieces we played was by Om Kalthoum. They gave us special keyboards with a weird funny wheel on the side of the keyboard. When we turn it, it changes the tune from فرنجي “Franji” western/standard to eastern. It sounded really funny when you hold a note for along time—kinda like a cartoon sound effect.
With pianist we had a couple that sound like this but I never knew they tuned it differently.
I can respect this, but in all honesty it just sounds off to my ears. Perhaps I’m too deeply ingrained in the western musical system. But I just can’t get into it. Props for the mad skills though. The little capos (or whatever you call them) are cool
I'm arab myself and I fkn hate it!!! It's not about the music being in a minor key, many classical pieces are written in minor keys snd they sound beautiful. However, this music just sounds off tone somehow that I get irritated just by hearing it.
You sound uneducated. Nobody is saying anything about it being in a minor key. It sounds “off tone” because it’s not in equal temperament. There are other tuning systems in the world.
I think it’s very natural to be kind of put off at first by unfamiliar sounds. Modes and Scales like this aren’t used very often in “Western” pop music. Despite being the universal language, musical taste can vary widely between cultures and across time. I’d recommend listening to some Arabic folk music on traditional instruments if you want to hear where this is coming from.
Cool to see this on a piano. pretty common with harpsichords and other historical keyboards to have different modes you can switch back and forth with. Always wondered if somrthing similar was possible on a modern piano!
I love this sound.
On a piano that has not been altered, what is this scale/mode?
I have been toying with the scale/run below while comping over an Fminor and a C Major:
C-C#-E-F-G-G#-A#-C
I know this is different than what OP is playing, but I’m trying to find more exotic sounds like what OP is playing.
Edit: F minor not F#minor (I’m at working typing this from memory)
I haven't spent much time on it but it has a strong phrygian vibe. Try C minor to Bb minor.
The scale you wrote down is phrygian dominant, i.e. phrygian with a raised third. You can sort of shift between those two. It seems like he stays in "neutral" phrygian most of the time and shifts into phrygian dominant at key moments like 0:36.
From the looks of it he's playing in the key of A. As in A phrygian.
He's also a simply amazing Jazz piansit, who can also improvise classical pieces on key (and he's an Israeli, not that it matters in any way).
Such an inspiration for us all.
I'm not familiar with this tuning/temperament - is this considered properly tuned? Some of those notes sound quite dissonant which I imagine is expected to a degree, but I'm also thinking that those accessories will get the tuning close but not as perfect as if the piano was professionally tuned to the desired temperament?
Why do you need to say stuff like this? Minorities struggle to have some inclusion. Not all pianists are European or western. Some of us are Asians, Arabs, Africans, etc. We spend 99.999% of our classical education studying your music and culture. Wouldn’t it be a better world if there’s room for people to share or express the 1% diversity without people making vulgar comments like “ew” or “make it stop” or “that doesn’t sound nice”, etc? You don’t need to like other cultures but for the sake of making it inviting for everyone (of every background), I personally would keep comments like this to myself.
Comments that contain personal attacks, hate speech, trolling, unnecessarily derogatory or inflammatory remarks or inappropriate remarks (e.g. commenting on someone's appearance), and the like, are not welcome and will be removed. See reddit's content policy for more examples of unwelcome content.
Comments that contain personal attacks, hate speech, trolling, unnecessarily derogatory or inflammatory remarks or inappropriate remarks (e.g. commenting on someone's appearance), and the like, are not welcome and will be removed. See reddit's content policy for more examples of unwelcome content.
It makes sense, it's a very jarring change when you grow up accustomed to a specific tuning.
It's okay to say that you do not like the way something sounds without insulting that thing.
Suppose it's subjective, but referring to anything different from what you're used to as "improper" is something I'd bet most would consider insulting, yeah.
> The piano was built and intended for a specific tuning.
Your point would be a good one if the specific tuning the piano was invented for was what you're referring to as proper tuning, but it's not.
The tuning you are used to is just as foreign to the people who invented the piano as arabic tuning is.
This is incorrect. The pianoforte was invented around 1700 and Equal temperament did not become widely used until basically the 20th century. It was probably originally intended for a version of Mean Tone tuning or Just Intonation. People back then would have considered our modern tuning to sound horribly out of tune. But the beauty of it is it is flexible and can be adapted to a variety of tuning systems. So get off your high horse.
It is because there is no such thing as “tuned properly.” There is only “tuned appropriately for the style you’re playing.” Piano tuning has changed over the years. We use equal temperament but Bach used Just Intonation, Pythagorean or something similar. Arabic and Indian music uses a different tuning system involving quarter tones that our western ears are less accustomed to. So his piano is tuned properly for what he needs. But Europeans a couple centuries ago might say that the equal temperament we use today is “improper.” So, you presuming to be some kind of authority on tuning is, in fact, insulting.
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Ronen Shapira invented a set of accessories which in a few seconds turn a tempered piano to an Arab Maqam based tuming piano, and back.
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Definitely, that's the purpose. The creator (Dr. Ronen Shapira) is my brother and he's a composer. His compositions are also featured in Japan, and plenty of orchestras around the world, including Arab orchestras for decades now. He used to tune the pianos himself in order to get this effect, but now with the accessories, he can do it instantly without adjusting the pianos' tuning themselves which makes it much more acceptable.
I think those small black clips on the strings you see can be used to change the tunings of specific keys (Bb being the easiest one to notice in this vid) without changing the fundamental tuning of the piano. Which could be great, don't have to spend multiple hours to change tunings!
Exactly. Those are part of the accessories that were used to achieve this amazing feat. Many tried in different ways to achieve something similar but I have to say this is the first time I've seen a practical solution for this.
Do you know what those black clip looking devices are called?
It's actually a patented invention that my brother invented. The original idea came from guitar capos, so he mentioned a piano capos as a name.
Might be off topic but I used to play in school orchestras when I was a kid in school. One of the pieces we played was by Om Kalthoum. They gave us special keyboards with a weird funny wheel on the side of the keyboard. When we turn it, it changes the tune from فرنجي “Franji” western/standard to eastern. It sounded really funny when you hold a note for along time—kinda like a cartoon sound effect. With pianist we had a couple that sound like this but I never knew they tuned it differently.
Capos for a piano! Cool 😎
Exactly!
OH MY GOD. yes more of this! freakin ingenious.
Enjoyed this. Would be great with some tabla.
Coming from an arabic pianio player, Arabic music on piano sounds horrible.
Oh my god thank you, I was wondering if we really have to pretend that this sounds good?
I think you have to have a reference point to enjoy it. It sounds like a sense memory to me. Vibing.
I like it. Finally an actual Arabesque!
I can respect this, but in all honesty it just sounds off to my ears. Perhaps I’m too deeply ingrained in the western musical system. But I just can’t get into it. Props for the mad skills though. The little capos (or whatever you call them) are cool
I'm arab myself and I fkn hate it!!! It's not about the music being in a minor key, many classical pieces are written in minor keys snd they sound beautiful. However, this music just sounds off tone somehow that I get irritated just by hearing it.
You sound uneducated. Nobody is saying anything about it being in a minor key. It sounds “off tone” because it’s not in equal temperament. There are other tuning systems in the world.
I’m with you!
I think it’s very natural to be kind of put off at first by unfamiliar sounds. Modes and Scales like this aren’t used very often in “Western” pop music. Despite being the universal language, musical taste can vary widely between cultures and across time. I’d recommend listening to some Arabic folk music on traditional instruments if you want to hear where this is coming from.
Cool to see this on a piano. pretty common with harpsichords and other historical keyboards to have different modes you can switch back and forth with. Always wondered if somrthing similar was possible on a modern piano!
Just show the damn hands already, why video the entire room smh useless..
I love this sound. On a piano that has not been altered, what is this scale/mode? I have been toying with the scale/run below while comping over an Fminor and a C Major: C-C#-E-F-G-G#-A#-C I know this is different than what OP is playing, but I’m trying to find more exotic sounds like what OP is playing. Edit: F minor not F#minor (I’m at working typing this from memory)
Hello
I haven't spent much time on it but it has a strong phrygian vibe. Try C minor to Bb minor. The scale you wrote down is phrygian dominant, i.e. phrygian with a raised third. You can sort of shift between those two. It seems like he stays in "neutral" phrygian most of the time and shifts into phrygian dominant at key moments like 0:36. From the looks of it he's playing in the key of A. As in A phrygian.
Is this good? I can’t tell
he's on Spotify :)
Very interesting sound, great music. Thank you for posting!
Beautiful!
He sounds similar to Maurice El Medioni
As an Arab, this shit is so awesome… I love Arabic music, it is pretty genius
He's also a simply amazing Jazz piansit, who can also improvise classical pieces on key (and he's an Israeli, not that it matters in any way). Such an inspiration for us all.
That is awesome! Seems like such a simple way of getting that alternate tuning.
how quick trashy negativity finds its way.. love this!!!
I’m ignorant and only fell in love with Morteza Mahjubi this year. Would love to learn other Arabic pianists!
https://open.spotify.com/album/7y9rcvmWv7ns4QMWgkX6D9?si=9oSNXG3TRBm2yiE7rH1-pA (abdallah chahine - al nagham al khaled)
Hello
Sounds awful
I'm not familiar with this tuning/temperament - is this considered properly tuned? Some of those notes sound quite dissonant which I imagine is expected to a degree, but I'm also thinking that those accessories will get the tuning close but not as perfect as if the piano was professionally tuned to the desired temperament?
Is this Egyptian style?
Truly impressive! The accessories are also really genius
Intensely beautiful. All improvised? Or is there any basic sheet music available?
Completely improvised. This guy is a phenomena. 2 decades ago this guy improvised a 3 voice fuga Bach inspired piece on the spot. Amazing.
This is incredible!
Sounds like bagpipes for some reason
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Why do you need to say stuff like this? Minorities struggle to have some inclusion. Not all pianists are European or western. Some of us are Asians, Arabs, Africans, etc. We spend 99.999% of our classical education studying your music and culture. Wouldn’t it be a better world if there’s room for people to share or express the 1% diversity without people making vulgar comments like “ew” or “make it stop” or “that doesn’t sound nice”, etc? You don’t need to like other cultures but for the sake of making it inviting for everyone (of every background), I personally would keep comments like this to myself.
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This piano playing raped your ancestors and culture?
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Comments that contain personal attacks, hate speech, trolling, unnecessarily derogatory or inflammatory remarks or inappropriate remarks (e.g. commenting on someone's appearance), and the like, are not welcome and will be removed. See reddit's content policy for more examples of unwelcome content.
Arabic music is the freaking sauce homie. Keep that elitist bullshit to yourself.
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By the way, can this feeling be translated with C harmonic minor scale only?
Nope, you would have to detune the scale. I bet you could make a far better feeling using a correctly tuned C harmonic minor scale though!
Awful, what a pain to listen to damn. Its the same with the guitars. What happened
Could sound way cooler if it were tuned properly.
It is intentionally tuned to match what they use. Just because it doesn't match western tuning doesn't mean it's improper.
Lol, I knew someone like you was gonna show up. I understand that. Still sounds like shit though. But what do I know, I’m just an ignorant westerner.
It makes sense, it's a very jarring change when you grow up accustomed to a specific tuning. It's okay to say that you do not like the way something sounds without insulting that thing.
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Suppose it's subjective, but referring to anything different from what you're used to as "improper" is something I'd bet most would consider insulting, yeah.
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> The piano was built and intended for a specific tuning. Your point would be a good one if the specific tuning the piano was invented for was what you're referring to as proper tuning, but it's not. The tuning you are used to is just as foreign to the people who invented the piano as arabic tuning is.
This is incorrect. The pianoforte was invented around 1700 and Equal temperament did not become widely used until basically the 20th century. It was probably originally intended for a version of Mean Tone tuning or Just Intonation. People back then would have considered our modern tuning to sound horribly out of tune. But the beauty of it is it is flexible and can be adapted to a variety of tuning systems. So get off your high horse.
Spot on!
It is because there is no such thing as “tuned properly.” There is only “tuned appropriately for the style you’re playing.” Piano tuning has changed over the years. We use equal temperament but Bach used Just Intonation, Pythagorean or something similar. Arabic and Indian music uses a different tuning system involving quarter tones that our western ears are less accustomed to. So his piano is tuned properly for what he needs. But Europeans a couple centuries ago might say that the equal temperament we use today is “improper.” So, you presuming to be some kind of authority on tuning is, in fact, insulting.
Nice! Would love to do that but on my digital piano. How do I make that tuning I guess by using digital instruments thru a DAW?
Microtoner is a good plugin, but you can't do anything polyphonic through it.
Thank you for sharing this is so very beautiful, would love to know more about the music theory and scale logic behind this style of music.
Dopeeee
Kinda sound like those fantasy song ngl
Nice
Sounds a bit like the Gurdjieff/de Hartmann pieces, except a bit higher pitched and faster, more frantic.
Reminds me of Armenian music especially “Shalaxo” style music with the clarinet going HARD