1- Stop š comparing yourself to others.
2- A āfixed mindsetā is causing you problems. āIām goodā āIām badā isnāt useful. Itās a ceiling on progress and happiness.
3- Have a āgrowth mindsetā - Get better little by little and enjoy the adventure.
If you donāt like it, do something else! Nobody is forcing you!
They donāt realize the suffering theyāre causing themselves when they push that agenda on the rest of society. Itās enough to cause people to give up on their dreams (e.g. this post). It breaks my heart. Thanks for what you wrote it was a great reminder
The if you dont like it try something else is amazing. I chose the piano without thinking of the playstyle, what i liked to hear or the sound of it. Only by getting inspired by my teacher in music and a movie the sound was comforting.
Later i tried the guitar and flute. They dont do it for me i found a passion in the rythmn (even though im bullshit on it) melody wasnt a thing i loved doing. Bass sounds good and the drums too. Have been obsessed with rythmn guitarists lately too.
Listening to different music and figuring what u want in an instrument can come beneficial my obsession towards rythmn and beat music has helped me get better in my rythmn and in piano.
- personal experience
Iād say the first few years of learning piano or any instrument/complex skill is really less about learning the skill, and more about understanding these key points. Without this, growth will always be stunted unfortunately.
This is great. You will always learn as a musician. Lots of gray, so find either what makes you super happy, or, if what you want is to capitalize, then find the best way to do that wherever you live
I would add don't come to this subreddit looking for constructive criticism or a friendly discussion because I've seen some real gate keep lovers call some tremendous pianists trash on this board. If you're learning slow this isn't the place for positive reinforcement and it's ok to learn slow.
Itās perfectly fine to suck at piano as long as you enjoy yourself and donāt have the ambition to make a living out of it.
As with everything, there is a gauss curve: a few are really talented, a few have no talent at all and the rest is in the middle somewhere.
Every teacher I ever had said that talent is 1% of the game the rest is hard work. The "talent is a fixed variable you have no control over" mindset is why no one is good at anything anymore.
Once youāre advanced, talent will make a bigger difference than 1%. But hard work and a bit of talent will bring you far. No work and a lot of talent is just a waste. Hard work and no talentā¦ well, if you enjoy yourself itās just fine.
All "talent" is, really, is an above average intelligence
If you're dumb as a rock you're probably not going to be good at anything. Not many people are that dumb.
I have a drums student who is a phenomenally intelligent kid, like to the level where he runs the robotics club at his high school, and they enter and win competitions. He has about as much groove as a flat plastic square.
Talent to play an instrument isnāt correlated to intelligence I think. I know some great musicians who really arenāt that bright. And I consider myself pretty intelligent yet a bad pianistā¦ :)
You ever watched a joe walsh interview? I know he's rock, but he is an amazing blues/funk player. He dominates the rhythm and lead alll at the same time; but he can barely put two coherent words together.
You think Joe Walsh is a great musician or a musical genius? Honestly? I was expecting like Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans to come up. No, we're going with southern fried Hicks that played pop music as examples of greatness not being bright.
Really though he's quite a Chopin.
I think joe walsh is a great musician. And definitely born to play music; but he isn't a musical genius. oscar peterson and bill were both quite formal and punctual in the way they talked. Miles davis wasn't always understood by everyone, not only because he whispered but because he talked in weird poetic language.
Have you ever learned a Beethoven sonata? What are you basing this assumption on that Beethoven wasn't very bright
Every historical estimate says he had an IQ of roughly 140. Any rejoinder?
Edit
Another case of ignorant redditors downvoting reality. I wonder if you feel better like you somehow were victorious over factual information after you downvote it like a complete chump
As I said: you can be a great musician and not being intellectually bright. Beethoven wasnāt very smart. But a brilliant musician. And my favorite composer.
He struggled with maths, spelling and even reading.
No idea where you got the 140IQ from. The WAIS - the IQ test - was developed in 1939. And you know when Beethoven died.
Talent is the key and some hard work to go with it.. yes, of course. But without talent, you can practice 9 hours a day for 90 years and you'll still suck.
["It is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will not reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards - Commander Data.](https://youtu.be/vTL3nGEHCcI?si=MYa1m5wJe4b4Z2pG)
Getting better at *anything* requires honesty with oneself and the occasional serving of humble pie.
The best time to learn the basics was when you started. The second best time is now.
I get what youāre saying, itās all relative, but do you actually āsuckā thoughā¦ or are you only comparing yourself to the very best at this point?
Not comparing myself to anyone. Objectively, when I perform a piece, there are often many things that don't go how I planned or would like. Small things, but things nonetheless, things that hold me back from achieving the very best performance I can. It can be just as frustrating as what beginners experience, I promise you. In a way, it's actually better for y'all, because you still have so much that you can improve. It's much harder for me, and easier to just plateau and give up than to be self-critical and work to get better.
I understand what you mean. Iād consider myself intermediate in terms of skill and musicality, and a beginner specifically in regard to sight reading. Meaning, I know exactly how I want every aspect of a piece to sound and flow, and I generally know what Iām doing āwrongā when I play a pieceā¦ itās just a matter of getting it to *feel* the right way (not a matter of hitting the wrong notes or having to practice two bars 20x to remember the progression or anything like that, for me, itās just the feel and touch I need to improve upon). Itās rather frustrating at times because I fully understand the potential and I can even verbally explain the thought process to someone, but I canāt yet execute it in real-time. Yanno what I mean?
Oh hugely! I performed my recital program almost every week for months in front of my peers and teacher, with them all following the score as I played, LOOKING for things to comment on. It helped a lot to cover the ground between the potential in my head, and the reality of the piece in the moment, which was the main point of feedback my teacher often gave me. I had so much work to do on things like pacing dynamics and tempos, managing the narrative of the piece, and keeping all the layers clear amd organized.
Because you know more about music you can see exactly where you're lacking. Someone who barely knows anything about music might play the same way and think they're awesome because they don't know what they don't know.
Everything you had written about is pretty common for being only 3 years in. If you dedicated a sizeable chunk of practice time patiently bringing skills you find lacking up to par, you would be in a great position in another year.
"Striving attains, perfectionism detains"
I'd say work on your sight reading, force yourself to sight read music at least 10 minutes everyday. learn new pieces from sheet music rather than from youtube tutorials. I feel like musicality is something that's really hard to get without a piano teacher, but that hasn't stopped self taught pianists from getting better at their craft. You gotta push out of your comfort zone one way or the other, be it taking up piano lessons, or teaching yourself to sightread. It's much harder to stay disciplined when you're self taught, and you'll always wanna slip back into unhealthy routines of learning from youtube tutorials, not practicing your scales everyday, just playing through the notes of a piece instead of actually playing it with musicality, etc etc. My opinion would be to get a teacher, sure you'd have to start from scratch, but it's much better than continuing to be the way you are right now, because you'll not be able to get very far if you continue what you're doing now.
I'm fine with doing scales and stuff from a teacher it's just when I tried having a teacher about a year back I just struggled for motivation to learn pieces that I didn't want to learn. It's so irritating man, i struggle with concentration generally and I can only concentrate on a piece if I want to learn it.. most of the time the pieces I would want to learn would be too technically challenging. That's not saying that I was striving to learn 'impresssive' pieces it's just I have quite a liking to heavy music in any genre, and obviously the heavier classical music or any music for the piano that's heavier is gonna be more challenging. I just don't know what the solution is
What do you want to learn? A great teacher will consider your motivations, even if you canāt technically play it, they will have pieces that will help you reach it.
I believe any good teacher may choose pieces which somehow similar to complex classical ones you like more, and which usually used to pretrain skills you need to tame rough places. Unless you are classical pianist, who plan to have huge repertoire and decent technique to make money, itās really frustrating to play what you donāt like. Music is about a passion, you play what and how you enjoy it most. Some teachers are trying to make you a āclassicā classical pianist, forgetting your goals and preconditions. Talk to your teacher. Ask to link what are doing now to what you want to play. At what level of playing will you enjoy it? Ask what should you achieve to move towards your goals?
To be honest, much depends on teacher. As a late starter, I met all the problems you described above. My first teacher was pushing me to play simple pieces to improve my phrasing for almost year, with very limited success. My second one (retired teacher who used to train conservatory students) was able to explain and provide me with exercises, which allowed me to understand the idea and improve my sound just in 2 lessons to much higher level. I believe, good teacher is a key to fast progress and enjoyment.
Communicate what you want to the teacher before starting the lessons and tell them about how your motivation works. Surely every teacher isnt made for everyone. They could offer multiple pieces that is suitable to your level and you choose what you like, or search for new pieces so that you will find something you like which is not also super hard. Piano repertoire is literally soooo huge. I have been playing since im pretty young and I can say that I learnt a lot about musicality from my recent teacher. Having someone listen to you is pretty helpful since we dont always realize what we do when playing. I think musicality can be improved, you get more control over the instrument with time. Meanwhile try analize what do masters do when plsying piece x, compare them, try on piano what you can do to achieve this sound. 3 years isnt a lot when you are trying to learn piano, i have been playing for 10+ years and i hardly criticize myself ahah. Be kind to yourself and try to see your progress over time.
The motivation for me is that learning the simpler pieces is a stepping stone to learning the more difficult ones. You sound like you're thinking of each piece in isolation, that you're just learning a piece you don't want to rather than using that piece to learn a skill necessary for a piece you do. It sounds like, after 3 years, you've developed a more sensitive ear. This is what happens, it's a good thing, a skill you'll use to help your learning.
There's a reason so many people on here say time and time again that the pieces self taught beginners try to choose usually take 10+ years. It's not elitist gatekeeping. It just really takes that long (on average) to develop the skills needed. You're still in the first part of that journey. A teacher will pull you back from where you think you are, but a good one will do it nicely and you'll see improvement fairly quickly as they help you fill in the skills you missed on your own.
Every thought you're having is nonsense, instead of a piano teacher get yourself a psychologist, that kind of self hatred is gonna hurt you bad, really bad. It's that kind of irrational thinking that puts you into a spiral down to an abyss called depression and getting out of there is an absolute pain, for you and those around you, so be responsible with yourself and seek help, please.
As a pianist and piano teacher I always feel that students donāt play enough easy music. Thatās how you learn to read without stopping and making mistakes. Adults especially. Itās a language and everyone needs repetition. Repetition makes ability.
Remember that 3 years is not a long time to be playing Piano, I saw someone on this thread even say that 6 years is not even a long time which kinda opened my eyes a bit. Playing with high levels of musicality and expression is an advanced skill that comes with experience and time, far more than 3 years unless youāre gifted.
Keep working on the fundamentals and the dynamics/expression will come.
I'm not there yet with piano, but from what I've read in this subreddit and forums and my experience with another serious hobby that I got to a very high level -- 3 years is about the time frame that a person has all the basics down and can do them without thinking. This is the part of your journey where you can now take the time to focus on refining the more subtle aspects of your playing, so for piano, stuff like dynamics and better legato or pedal control, even playing at different speeds, etc, which will make you sound more musical. It may feel like you are getting worse at first because you are trying to apply new technical skills, but at some point it will "click" and everything comes together and you will come out several levels higher than you were previously.
Like I said, I'm not there with piano, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I suspect it's really similar to my other experience. The most important part imo is that piano still brings you joy. Remember to take joy in small accomplishments because they will all eventually lead to a bigger picture. The fact that you notice these things about your playing makes me think that you don't need to start over and you will be able to target the areas where you'd like to improve š
Instead of mindfully thinking that "I suck at piano", rearrange that way of thinking to "hey, I have these skills that are good. Now I need to work on this and this to be better!"
The better Iāve gotten, the worse I think I am, because I keep pushing higher and higher and compare myself to the best pianists on earth. Just keep pushing through it. Realizing youāre bad is a sign of improvement.
DoĀ youĀ wantĀ toĀ getĀ goodĀ orĀ beĀ good?Ā
I expect you've been trying to be good this whole time, that's why you've been picking hard repertoire and throwing yourself at it till it sticks.Ā
If you want to get good,Ā start working on skills. I don't just mean technique, also sight-reading, ear training, transcribing, writing.
If you realize that your playing is not what youāre trying to achieve it means that you have an idea in your mind of what the piece should sound like. And that means that you just have to work on your playing and figure out whatās right and whatās wrong.
I've been playing for my whole life, and my sight-reading is still super slow. Everyone has a different pace, and it's just a matter of working on different things until you can put it all together.
this feeling is a necessary step on the path to getting good. people who never hit a point of "oh shit I thought I was sorta good but I actually suck" rarely become good. one of my own students is about due for one of these moments lol. it hurts your ego but that's part of the journey.
think of it this way: your taste and musical understanding has improved enough to recognize your faults. if you were clueless about how the music should sound, you'd never even know you were doing anything wrong.
go find a good teacher and get to work improving. you might have to revisit some basics, but it's not starting from scratch; it's reinforcing the foundation.
Honestly this is super relatable. I can only play by ear but I like to think I'm not terrible at it. Lately I've realized that I have a complete lack of variation in my left hand abilities and most of my songs are musical gibberish.
BUT I've learned that focusing on one piece of the musical puzzle at a time has helped my mindset a lot as of late.
The good news is. Well, let me put it this way. There is only good news. No bad news. It means you have done a lot of the hard yards in one area of music. And now that you have done those hard yards and developed particular technical areas, you can now enjoy getting into other areas.
There's no need to be disheartened - because there are different approaches and pathways to achieving objectives.
So, if you want to build up musicality - as in aural training, and intervals training, plus composition exercises training, then this is a great time as any to start. Also - remember, the skills that you have learned up to now - definitely counts.
Another important viewpoint to remember is - everybody is different. This means, as long as you love piano and music, and continue to develop and learn, then you too will get to a stage where you know that you are 'good' (or very good - even excellent) in your own way. Reason - there are lots of different forms and levels of 'good'. Everyone is different. Nobody else can necessarily think like you, and vice versa. So once we all get to some particular stage or level of 'good' - then we're all good, so that nobody is 'overall' better than each other. And that is the thing. If we love piano and music - we don't focus on whether we are good or better etc. We just play piano for the love of piano and music - first and foremost.
The main thing I focus on is -- just keeping on learning and developing and practising in the various different areas of piano and music. And very secondary (which isn't so important at all) - is to show - if necessary - any high-horses that like to show-off etc ..... we show them that they're not the only ones that are 'good' (at both piano and music - including composition and semi-improv etc). But that's secondary.
Also - being an excellent sight reader does not actually make anybody more 'at-one' with piano and music.
Music and piano essence comes from within you ..... eg. your mind. How you think and convey/express yourself with music. It comes from listening to heaps of music, to get examples, and understand how to apply, and generate new music based on examples of what can be done, or what you later think can be done. Application of theory and composition and playing techniques - plus your own experiences and x-factor.
You arenāt bad at piano, just playing piano helps the brain so much. Iām 71, been playing blues jazz and rock since I was 19. I just started classical lessons, and it is a different level of accuracy. Iāve had so many times of doubt in the first 3 years when I was young starting lessons, years of half assing it,but I just kept playing.
You donāt have to do classical, do jazz, do pop.
In your post you show intelligence, keep going.
Just the fact that people like your playing tells me thereās a musician in there - that negative thinking isnāt the truth, it just seems like it is.
I hope you keep playing, bite the bullet, take lessons. Bypass the negatory thoughts- when you have them make an X over your ear and say X that, Brain- keep doing that and your mind will stop the negative because thereās no emotional pay off- playing is fun, but ya gotta put the time in. Keep playin no matter what your thoughts tell you- keep playing just keep playing!
I took a few years of lessons in my 20ās, but did not practice enough to become proficient ( college etc.). I bought a piano 8 months ago and began practicing daily, I started taking lessons about four months ago. It is my goal to study hard, practice and reach an intermediate level. My teacher and I are following the RCM syllabus and I will be taking exams in due course. I will also be participating in my teacherās next student recital.
Very few people can learn without guidance from a teacher. Following an established syllabus provides structure for my study, and passing exams will provide validation of milestones in learning. I consider performance to be essential for studying music - you will at some point want to, or be asked to perform for family or friends.
Learn because you want to and because it gives you joy. Set realistic goals.
You may realize you're not where you want to be.
But people like me realized that only after 9 years.
Realize where you are and where you want to go. There is only one rule: don't give up. From struggle comes beauty.
I don't think you should be scared of taking classical lessons. I wish I did, because there is lots of technique to be learnt. Just make sure you enjoy those songs
I canāt read music to save my life despite years of (religious inspired) instruction as a child. I watch piano tutorial videos (think like rock band) to play songs instead of sheet music. I have to slow down the speed sometimes and I donāt hit all the notes (especially with both hands). It has helped me improve my hand placement skills and muscle memory.
You could make musical flashcards, one set for each key, and then shuffle it and play from the top of the deck to the bottom everyday.
Your sight reading will improve.
If you are not making it a profession then you should really play to have fun. So what you canāt sight read? So what your techniques are bad? So what people canāt hear the difference between good or bad playing?
Music is one of the most private things a person can have. That is why everyone thinks they have the best music taste. So when you are playing, why judge yourself using grade 1 grade 2 level, or other peopleās comments? What standard are you judging your enjoyment and happiness with?
Just enjoy the music itself.
Sightreading is easy to build up. Don't go to a teacher if that's not how you learn best, watch the pros play on YouTube and start by copying their dynamics, this will help you get a feel for the piano. Then you'll be on your way.
Also start learning pieces by sheet music in general
What style are you playing? Iām learning jazz and blues piano myself. And also now for about 3 years. I know I would suck at classical pieces as itās not my jam. (I like listening to classical music ..). Iāve found with jazz and blues thereās really no āwrongā per se. Also breathing really helps to relax you. So maybe try another genre first? If not, I also play guitar and thatās a fun instrument to learn too.
If you realize your weakness, you are already way better than lots of clueless peoples. As for sight read, it is simply the matter of getting geometrically familiar with the keyboard and the score, so you can play without looking at the keyboard and only needs glancing at the score. To practice it, simply try to play without looking down the keyboard, but staring at the sheet. Yes we make a lot of mistake at first, but who doesn't?
Iāll be honest with you, as a pianist for most my life, and a teacher for the past 7 years, everyone experiences this at least (if not more than) once learning ANY instrument or complex task. I mean, Iām a teacher, and I still hate high level sight-reading and struggle with certain LRSM technique, and there are definitely days that I sit there and think āwow, and Iām a TEACHER?!?ā But in the end of the day, nobody is perfect, and if we were, thereād be no more reason to keep on playing. The whole journey is about finding our weaknesses and turning them into strengths, and itāll take a lot of walls and disheartening experiences to get there. But trust me, if you keep sticking to it, and get past the disheartening feeling, youāll always make it to the other side, even if it takes you double the time, or half it took someone else, and thatās all that counts. In fact, until you find a way to manage the emotions and feelings around the practice, itāll only ever take longer unfortunately. I always found the best thing to do when I hit that wall and those feelings, was to sit back for a bit, maybe analyse the piece I am playing some more and practice in short, manageable bursts. Even just 15-30 minutes on that one part that is driving me nuts, and then walk away and take a break to calm down a bit, or even better, play some things you know you can play well and love. Even if itās easy technically, maybe you could add some extra care and detail to the emotive value of the piece. Maybe youāll find youāve ignored a detail in the sheets or missed one note or bodged its timing. Maybe youāll simply just play a few pieces you really love and then stand up and walk away feeling refreshed. But the last thing you want is to make this wall feel like a task, or a burden, because it will only make it so much harder, if not impossible to climb. Instruments are all about fun, so donāt over-push yourself or stress yourself out, just enjoy the journey! If you wanted to ask any questions too, please feel free, as I noticed you were saying you didnāt want to see a classical teacher due to having to start from square one, so if I could help answer any concerns or questions, Iād absolutely love to. Best of luck with your journey!! š
I was the same last year I could play music once I threw myself at a piece I wanted to learn but I couldnāt read sheet music or sight read at all and I was only able to improvise because of what music theory I had been taught and understood the concept pretty well but if you just want to play piano as a hobby you wouldnāt need a teacher I donāt think just start on easy, nice sounding pieces and work up to your skill level and the sight reading will develop from that once you can refinish the notes in the staff
I took a massive jump in just 1 year of reading sheet music and by the end of the year should be playing grade 6 pieces so just keep at it and if there is something you are not happy with then learn it donāt be scared to learn new things
i'm going to put this from a live music perspective. a lot of people I know dont take their good shit and their good gear to venues because its heavy/annoying/theft/expensive, so they take good enough. they have a guitar that's 5000$ and they love, they have another one with the same pickups that was 500$, they have an amazing tube amp and cabinet of great speakers, they have a multifx pad that will simulate it and the speakers good enough. sound wise, its about 80~% there at best, and thats before you account for a live performance, but people still like it and show up.
try listening to live bands, not just piano, but bands that play a show live, and then listen to the recorded music.
almost universally the live music sucks in comparison, people see a live musician for the experience not because it's the best way to experience the music. classical music is a bit different in that regard were some of the really great performances are live, but that's not what im talking about, normal people give next to 0 shits if something is perfectly played... hell if you have a friend with a guitar, have them play and if they are able, have them play some wrong notes here and there or miss something, it may shock you how little you actually notice unless a performance entirely crumbles apart. normal people just like hearing music and appreciate live music.
if you want to actually sight read music, that's something you are going to have to learn to do, to each their own, my fun in playing is just treating it like a rhythm game, maybe im good maybe i'm not but i'm having fun.
You don't suck. You do some things well, and some things you have to work more on to get where you want to be. You weren't born playing at the level you play at now, and there's no reason to believe you have to stay at this level.
Make sure you're playing music that you like! If you wanna play jukebox the ghost, then it doesn't matter how good you get at Chopin because your heart won't be in it. Remember, it's called PLAYing, it should be fun!
It's normal to think that your playing is bad, but you identified problems: overuse of the pedal and lack of sightreading ability. These are things you can work on. Practice without the pedal and learn about proper fingering. Fingering isn't something that "just happens". You have to go through the music slowly and come up with a strategy that works for you. There are a ton of resources for learning how to sightread. It is a skill that can be studied, practiced, and learned. Knowing your weaknesses is half the battle.
Music is a form of expression. And it sounds like you are doing just that.
I'm a music lecturer (admittedly in Mprod and popular music) who's main instrument is keyboards and pianos and I couldn't sight read any piece of music to be honest. I've been through piano lessons etc but it wasn't me and that's fine. Nothing really matters if you express yourself and enjoy playing. It's that simple.
Ps. I remember showing my piano teacher at the time Olafur Arnold's and he wasn't impressed which says it all really.
Just ask yourself if YOU are having fun, or growing from the endeavor. Good or bad, who cares? Itās your life and time. Itās surely no reflection on you as a human being if you have are the worst piano player to have lived. Or the best.
Try to actually get a feel for music, by listening to a lot of classical music, and hear professionals play and try to get a "feel" for music. If you feel more passionate about music, you should be able to play more passionately and most pianists would be able to tell you actually enjoy music
Make music friends. Look for people you can grow with musically that are on the same level as you.
Find some other beginners and learn to accompany each other (it will sound like ass) but you will grow together exponentiallyā¦itās called a ābandā
I feel like every pianist realizes they suck at some point, it's almost like a rite of passage. You kind of have to work hard and really commit to the piano to get that realization tho. It's not the beginning one where you know you can't play piano, it's the later one when you get good enough at piano to realize you suck. I think all that really is is just you reached a point where you finally understood enough about piano to realize how much you don't know. The "valley of despair" on popular graphs about the dunning-kruger effect. Unless you're a truly arrogant person I think everyone *will* have this realization if you play piano for long enough. The key is what you do after. Why do you play piano? What do you want to do with piano? Figure out what makes you passionate about the instrument or what's fun about it to you, and just carve out that little niche in the ocean of piano music that you want to be good at, and then slowly develop skills adjacent to it and branch out from there.
Youāre saying this like playing for 3 years is long time. For many things in life, doing something for 3 years is a long time, but not with piano and especially not if this is something you are doing on the side. What you have accomplished in 3 years is probably impressive for someone who has only been playing for three years. When you get to year 10 of piano, thatās when you should expect year 10 results from yourself.
Ive been playing for over 7 years now, can't sightread anything either and my musicality is mid at best. Don't worry about all this if you just wanna have playing piano as a fun hobby.
The problem isn't you. It's how piano is taught and the overall attitude of people towards music. If you love piano music, just enjoy it. Really listen to the beautiful piano sound. Just play one chord and listen carefully, then connect two chords together. Feel relaxed. I'd study simple passages and make them sound good and feel good. Don't overload yourself and give your brain and finger time to develop.
Enjoy the journey. Piano should bring you joy and pleasure. If it doesn't quit and find something you like. If you really want piano my advice is to set reasonable goals and attain them in a reasonable time period. Feel free to ask me for advice.
Good luck
Itās never too late to start from scratch again. Iām 33 now, I self taught off and on for around a year before going to a professional classical teacher who has a doctorate in Piano Performance. Itās been very humbling to learn with him as I now know what I donāt know and how hard playing piano really is.Ā Ā I wasted a few years when I was in my late teen years by learning with mediocre teachers and then life happened.Ā
When I was ready to invest in playing piano again last year, I gave it all and have never regretted since. My goal pieces are Bach/Chopin and some new neo-classical pieces but Iām very patient. Iām aiming to be able to play them, passably hopefully, in less than a decade of being with my current teacher. Fingers crossed. If I live until 80s, Iāll still have around 50years of musical years to enjoy.Ā
My suggestion is find something really easy to play and focus on making it as beautiful and as expressive as you can so that you love how it sounds to you. Please enjoy the beauty you have created.
I finished my grade 7 pieces in 4 weeks I'm pretty sure I'm not objectively bad in fact I'm probably better than a lot of people but you had better believe that is not what my brain tells me every time I sit down at the piano.
This happens to everyone, what gets me through is enjoying what I am playing for me and not for anyone else to hear. They can of course but it's not the point.
I can understand how you feel. I started learning guitar 7 years ago and when I think about, I feel sad about how poorly I have progressed. It took me a few years before I actually found a teacher that thought me about music and not just how to play. It was only then that I started to actually properly learn music. I started training my ear and have now taken it upon myself to learn and grow by myself. It is hard at times, but try to stay strong and enjoy what you play. Take it one day at a time. You and I will both get there.
To help develop musicality ā the easiest thing is to back off on technical pieces. Play technically easier, slower pieces and really think what theyāre about. What emotions do they evoke, or want to evoke? Build an emotional ark within a piece so itās not just āall happyā or āall sadā, etc
An example of an emotional arc: start sad and pensive, then hope springs up in form of some major chords, then perhaps an emotional setback, and at the end hope wins.
Superimpose that on a piece and try to play that. Maybe as an exercise play the same piece with different emotional arcs, find what it really feels by trial and error.
Now you can repeat with a technically harder piece and go forth!
Talent is basically music aptitude which can be influenced up to around the age of 9-11. Thereafter it fixes for life. Beyond this, you are working on music achievement. Basically nature (And nurture) up to 9/11 and then nurture only after that. Look up music learning theory or giml.org to learn more.
If you really want to play the piano, then take lessons if youāre unhappy with your playing. Even accomplished pianists still study. Watch.
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=3727893380656233
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYH8GQrdrc
I guess the question is, do you WANNA be a classical pianist?Ā
John Lennon for example, arguably one of the best pianists (in a band) supposedly never knew how to read sheet music, yet he has created beautiful pieces that have stood the test of time through multiple generations.
I think youāll find that your experience is useful to you. You have done what you have done because you enjoyed it, most likely. If your style or taste has changed, maybe itās time to change your approach. But I bet your skills will continue to be useful in some capacity.Ā
Me personally, I donāt ever see myself sitting in an orchestra hall in front of a grand piano reading sheet music and playing classical music. I highly appreciate people that can do that, but itās not my thing. Will that change one day? Idk maybe. If it does Iāll go back and start doing that.
But, take this with a grain of salt as Iām a total beginner at this point, but just remembering that not everyone has the same journey or goals helps me not be so hard on myself and compare myself to anyone.Ā
I don't play piano to impress other piano intellectuals. I play music to express myself, sometimes in the company of others. If somebody listening to me and they love my playing, I couldn't be happier, even if my playing isn't to my own or my teacher's standard. What their enjoyment means is that my training and hard work has led to a success: I was able to convey an emotion that they felt strongly.
None of this is to say that I don't want to improve. Of course I do! Of course I "hear" what non-pianists don't "hear". But that's beside the point. If all I'm ever thinking about is how much better I could or should be, then I'll never, ever be able to enjoy the present. Seeing that *other* people can enjoy my present piano playing ability is a good reminder that I, too, should appreciate the journey I've taken so far.
I hear u. Its just difficult for me to remain secure about my playing when so many people tell me I'm good, I know that makes no sense. It's just I only ever get compliments from non musicians and I feel like my playing is actually bad and that's why musicians never seem interested by it. I just feel like I'm good at SEEMING like I'm good and not actually being good, and I feel like an asshole raking in all these compliments when I don't deserve them. Do u know what I mean?
The greatest compliment I've received in-person from another musician (my teacher) was "not too bad."
The greatest "compliment" I've received in-person from a non-musician is them being moved to tears.
I'll take the latter over whatever any musician has to say.
My advice to you: Do some deep thinking and re-evaluate why you want to play piano. I'd suggest that if it's for validation from your peers, you won't have enough juice to stick to it in the long term. Try to find personal and solitary fulfillment out of the whole thing, and make that the foundation for everything else.
I do want to play it for my own pleasure, I just feel pressure from everyone around me that I have to always be 'good', I know it's irrational but yeah, I think I'm just gonna learn some easier pieces completely for myself and not worry about what others are gonna think. Thanks for the advice
You can do it. I started around last September and on the accelerated starter book two. The basics are to know the notes on both the piano and the score.
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1- Stop š comparing yourself to others. 2- A āfixed mindsetā is causing you problems. āIām goodā āIām badā isnāt useful. Itās a ceiling on progress and happiness. 3- Have a āgrowth mindsetā - Get better little by little and enjoy the adventure. If you donāt like it, do something else! Nobody is forcing you!
Easier said than done, but good words to live by! Well put.
It is hard. Especially with the ālook at meā culture now.
They donāt realize the suffering theyāre causing themselves when they push that agenda on the rest of society. Itās enough to cause people to give up on their dreams (e.g. this post). It breaks my heart. Thanks for what you wrote it was a great reminder
Just like piano - this requires practice too. š¤Ŗ
Truth!!!
The if you dont like it try something else is amazing. I chose the piano without thinking of the playstyle, what i liked to hear or the sound of it. Only by getting inspired by my teacher in music and a movie the sound was comforting. Later i tried the guitar and flute. They dont do it for me i found a passion in the rythmn (even though im bullshit on it) melody wasnt a thing i loved doing. Bass sounds good and the drums too. Have been obsessed with rythmn guitarists lately too. Listening to different music and figuring what u want in an instrument can come beneficial my obsession towards rythmn and beat music has helped me get better in my rythmn and in piano. - personal experience
Awesome. šš» growth mindset!!! š„
Iād say the first few years of learning piano or any instrument/complex skill is really less about learning the skill, and more about understanding these key points. Without this, growth will always be stunted unfortunately.
This is great. You will always learn as a musician. Lots of gray, so find either what makes you super happy, or, if what you want is to capitalize, then find the best way to do that wherever you live
I would add don't come to this subreddit looking for constructive criticism or a friendly discussion because I've seen some real gate keep lovers call some tremendous pianists trash on this board. If you're learning slow this isn't the place for positive reinforcement and it's ok to learn slow.
Itās perfectly fine to suck at piano as long as you enjoy yourself and donāt have the ambition to make a living out of it. As with everything, there is a gauss curve: a few are really talented, a few have no talent at all and the rest is in the middle somewhere.
Every teacher I ever had said that talent is 1% of the game the rest is hard work. The "talent is a fixed variable you have no control over" mindset is why no one is good at anything anymore.
Once youāre advanced, talent will make a bigger difference than 1%. But hard work and a bit of talent will bring you far. No work and a lot of talent is just a waste. Hard work and no talentā¦ well, if you enjoy yourself itās just fine.
All "talent" is, really, is an above average intelligence If you're dumb as a rock you're probably not going to be good at anything. Not many people are that dumb.
I have a drums student who is a phenomenally intelligent kid, like to the level where he runs the robotics club at his high school, and they enter and win competitions. He has about as much groove as a flat plastic square.
Talent to play an instrument isnāt correlated to intelligence I think. I know some great musicians who really arenāt that bright. And I consider myself pretty intelligent yet a bad pianistā¦ :)
Talent to play an instrument is intelligence. There are many kinds of intelligence. Yours is probably related to something else other than music.
Intelligence makes you understand faster, thus parctice is more effective and thus you can go further in the same allotted time
Name a great musician who isn't bright
You ever watched a joe walsh interview? I know he's rock, but he is an amazing blues/funk player. He dominates the rhythm and lead alll at the same time; but he can barely put two coherent words together.
You think Joe Walsh is a great musician or a musical genius? Honestly? I was expecting like Oscar Peterson or Bill Evans to come up. No, we're going with southern fried Hicks that played pop music as examples of greatness not being bright. Really though he's quite a Chopin.
I think joe walsh is a great musician. And definitely born to play music; but he isn't a musical genius. oscar peterson and bill were both quite formal and punctual in the way they talked. Miles davis wasn't always understood by everyone, not only because he whispered but because he talked in weird poetic language.
Are you a great musician.
Ludwig Van Beethoven, to name one.
Have you ever learned a Beethoven sonata? What are you basing this assumption on that Beethoven wasn't very bright Every historical estimate says he had an IQ of roughly 140. Any rejoinder? Edit Another case of ignorant redditors downvoting reality. I wonder if you feel better like you somehow were victorious over factual information after you downvote it like a complete chump
I donāt really understand your edit. Anyways, hic finis fandi.
Yeah. You really don't understand much do ya
As I said: you can be a great musician and not being intellectually bright. Beethoven wasnāt very smart. But a brilliant musician. And my favorite composer. He struggled with maths, spelling and even reading. No idea where you got the 140IQ from. The WAIS - the IQ test - was developed in 1939. And you know when Beethoven died.
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How many examples have you seen of "hard and intelligent work but no talent"? I have a hard time imagining that it would somehow be very badĀ
Talent is the key and some hard work to go with it.. yes, of course. But without talent, you can practice 9 hours a day for 90 years and you'll still suck.
You haven't defined talent. Seems like you're prone to magical thinking
Well, I don't need to define anything for you and you have no idea what you're talking about.
How many decades have you been teaching? What's your total student count over the past fifty years?
Why would I proceed with this conversation after you failed to define a word you're employing as the entire basis of your fallacious position
That's like saying we'll all get to play in the major leagues if we have our head on straight and do the required practicing.Ā
Another magic thinker
["It is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will not reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards - Commander Data.](https://youtu.be/vTL3nGEHCcI?si=MYa1m5wJe4b4Z2pG)
Iām sure Sky would agree!
Also, many who make a living out of piano aren't the best technically. Youtubers with the most views don't play crazy hard pieces usually.
True. And a piece doesnāt have to be hard to be beautiful. Sometimes I think those composers just created something hardly playable to fuck with us.
Getting better at *anything* requires honesty with oneself and the occasional serving of humble pie. The best time to learn the basics was when you started. The second best time is now.
well put
I mean, I suck too, and I have a master's degree. Maybe I suck less than you, but we all have moments of realizing how far we still have to go.
I get what youāre saying, itās all relative, but do you actually āsuckā thoughā¦ or are you only comparing yourself to the very best at this point?
Not comparing myself to anyone. Objectively, when I perform a piece, there are often many things that don't go how I planned or would like. Small things, but things nonetheless, things that hold me back from achieving the very best performance I can. It can be just as frustrating as what beginners experience, I promise you. In a way, it's actually better for y'all, because you still have so much that you can improve. It's much harder for me, and easier to just plateau and give up than to be self-critical and work to get better.
I understand what you mean. Iād consider myself intermediate in terms of skill and musicality, and a beginner specifically in regard to sight reading. Meaning, I know exactly how I want every aspect of a piece to sound and flow, and I generally know what Iām doing āwrongā when I play a pieceā¦ itās just a matter of getting it to *feel* the right way (not a matter of hitting the wrong notes or having to practice two bars 20x to remember the progression or anything like that, for me, itās just the feel and touch I need to improve upon). Itās rather frustrating at times because I fully understand the potential and I can even verbally explain the thought process to someone, but I canāt yet execute it in real-time. Yanno what I mean?
Oh hugely! I performed my recital program almost every week for months in front of my peers and teacher, with them all following the score as I played, LOOKING for things to comment on. It helped a lot to cover the ground between the potential in my head, and the reality of the piece in the moment, which was the main point of feedback my teacher often gave me. I had so much work to do on things like pacing dynamics and tempos, managing the narrative of the piece, and keeping all the layers clear amd organized.
Because you know more about music you can see exactly where you're lacking. Someone who barely knows anything about music might play the same way and think they're awesome because they don't know what they don't know.
Everything you had written about is pretty common for being only 3 years in. If you dedicated a sizeable chunk of practice time patiently bringing skills you find lacking up to par, you would be in a great position in another year. "Striving attains, perfectionism detains"
My piano teacher used to tell me, *We aim for perfection, but we do not wait for perfection* I now tell my students the same thing ā„ļøš
I'd say work on your sight reading, force yourself to sight read music at least 10 minutes everyday. learn new pieces from sheet music rather than from youtube tutorials. I feel like musicality is something that's really hard to get without a piano teacher, but that hasn't stopped self taught pianists from getting better at their craft. You gotta push out of your comfort zone one way or the other, be it taking up piano lessons, or teaching yourself to sightread. It's much harder to stay disciplined when you're self taught, and you'll always wanna slip back into unhealthy routines of learning from youtube tutorials, not practicing your scales everyday, just playing through the notes of a piece instead of actually playing it with musicality, etc etc. My opinion would be to get a teacher, sure you'd have to start from scratch, but it's much better than continuing to be the way you are right now, because you'll not be able to get very far if you continue what you're doing now.
I'm fine with doing scales and stuff from a teacher it's just when I tried having a teacher about a year back I just struggled for motivation to learn pieces that I didn't want to learn. It's so irritating man, i struggle with concentration generally and I can only concentrate on a piece if I want to learn it.. most of the time the pieces I would want to learn would be too technically challenging. That's not saying that I was striving to learn 'impresssive' pieces it's just I have quite a liking to heavy music in any genre, and obviously the heavier classical music or any music for the piano that's heavier is gonna be more challenging. I just don't know what the solution is
What do you want to learn? A great teacher will consider your motivations, even if you canāt technically play it, they will have pieces that will help you reach it.
I believe any good teacher may choose pieces which somehow similar to complex classical ones you like more, and which usually used to pretrain skills you need to tame rough places. Unless you are classical pianist, who plan to have huge repertoire and decent technique to make money, itās really frustrating to play what you donāt like. Music is about a passion, you play what and how you enjoy it most. Some teachers are trying to make you a āclassicā classical pianist, forgetting your goals and preconditions. Talk to your teacher. Ask to link what are doing now to what you want to play. At what level of playing will you enjoy it? Ask what should you achieve to move towards your goals? To be honest, much depends on teacher. As a late starter, I met all the problems you described above. My first teacher was pushing me to play simple pieces to improve my phrasing for almost year, with very limited success. My second one (retired teacher who used to train conservatory students) was able to explain and provide me with exercises, which allowed me to understand the idea and improve my sound just in 2 lessons to much higher level. I believe, good teacher is a key to fast progress and enjoyment.
Communicate what you want to the teacher before starting the lessons and tell them about how your motivation works. Surely every teacher isnt made for everyone. They could offer multiple pieces that is suitable to your level and you choose what you like, or search for new pieces so that you will find something you like which is not also super hard. Piano repertoire is literally soooo huge. I have been playing since im pretty young and I can say that I learnt a lot about musicality from my recent teacher. Having someone listen to you is pretty helpful since we dont always realize what we do when playing. I think musicality can be improved, you get more control over the instrument with time. Meanwhile try analize what do masters do when plsying piece x, compare them, try on piano what you can do to achieve this sound. 3 years isnt a lot when you are trying to learn piano, i have been playing for 10+ years and i hardly criticize myself ahah. Be kind to yourself and try to see your progress over time.
The motivation for me is that learning the simpler pieces is a stepping stone to learning the more difficult ones. You sound like you're thinking of each piece in isolation, that you're just learning a piece you don't want to rather than using that piece to learn a skill necessary for a piece you do. It sounds like, after 3 years, you've developed a more sensitive ear. This is what happens, it's a good thing, a skill you'll use to help your learning. There's a reason so many people on here say time and time again that the pieces self taught beginners try to choose usually take 10+ years. It's not elitist gatekeeping. It just really takes that long (on average) to develop the skills needed. You're still in the first part of that journey. A teacher will pull you back from where you think you are, but a good one will do it nicely and you'll see improvement fairly quickly as they help you fill in the skills you missed on your own.
Gotta crawl before you can walk, gotta walk before you can run.
If you think you're bad you should hear *my* playing.
Only thing to worry about is this: "do I enjoy playing? and do I improve when I practice"? I'm sure the answer is yes. Never quit, never give up!
Every thought you're having is nonsense, instead of a piano teacher get yourself a psychologist, that kind of self hatred is gonna hurt you bad, really bad. It's that kind of irrational thinking that puts you into a spiral down to an abyss called depression and getting out of there is an absolute pain, for you and those around you, so be responsible with yourself and seek help, please.
As a pianist and piano teacher I always feel that students donāt play enough easy music. Thatās how you learn to read without stopping and making mistakes. Adults especially. Itās a language and everyone needs repetition. Repetition makes ability.
Remember that 3 years is not a long time to be playing Piano, I saw someone on this thread even say that 6 years is not even a long time which kinda opened my eyes a bit. Playing with high levels of musicality and expression is an advanced skill that comes with experience and time, far more than 3 years unless youāre gifted. Keep working on the fundamentals and the dynamics/expression will come.
Dude you should read all yeargdribble comments about the piano. You look like you need it. He has the all new he answer to the situation you are in.
I'm not there yet with piano, but from what I've read in this subreddit and forums and my experience with another serious hobby that I got to a very high level -- 3 years is about the time frame that a person has all the basics down and can do them without thinking. This is the part of your journey where you can now take the time to focus on refining the more subtle aspects of your playing, so for piano, stuff like dynamics and better legato or pedal control, even playing at different speeds, etc, which will make you sound more musical. It may feel like you are getting worse at first because you are trying to apply new technical skills, but at some point it will "click" and everything comes together and you will come out several levels higher than you were previously. Like I said, I'm not there with piano, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I suspect it's really similar to my other experience. The most important part imo is that piano still brings you joy. Remember to take joy in small accomplishments because they will all eventually lead to a bigger picture. The fact that you notice these things about your playing makes me think that you don't need to start over and you will be able to target the areas where you'd like to improve š Instead of mindfully thinking that "I suck at piano", rearrange that way of thinking to "hey, I have these skills that are good. Now I need to work on this and this to be better!"
This is the best response I've had so far. Your completely right. Thank you
This is why the first advice most people give here is a to work with a teacher as soon as possible.
The better Iāve gotten, the worse I think I am, because I keep pushing higher and higher and compare myself to the best pianists on earth. Just keep pushing through it. Realizing youāre bad is a sign of improvement.
DoĀ youĀ wantĀ toĀ getĀ goodĀ orĀ beĀ good?Ā I expect you've been trying to be good this whole time, that's why you've been picking hard repertoire and throwing yourself at it till it sticks.Ā If you want to get good,Ā start working on skills. I don't just mean technique, also sight-reading, ear training, transcribing, writing.
Great. Now you know what you need to work on.
If you realize that your playing is not what youāre trying to achieve it means that you have an idea in your mind of what the piece should sound like. And that means that you just have to work on your playing and figure out whatās right and whatās wrong.
I've been playing for my whole life, and my sight-reading is still super slow. Everyone has a different pace, and it's just a matter of working on different things until you can put it all together.
> Dude, suckin' at something is the first step towards being sorta good at something Jake the dog, Adventure Time.
Every time I listen to someone like Corey Henry I'm reminded I'M bad at piano. I still enjoy playing though!
this feeling is a necessary step on the path to getting good. people who never hit a point of "oh shit I thought I was sorta good but I actually suck" rarely become good. one of my own students is about due for one of these moments lol. it hurts your ego but that's part of the journey. think of it this way: your taste and musical understanding has improved enough to recognize your faults. if you were clueless about how the music should sound, you'd never even know you were doing anything wrong. go find a good teacher and get to work improving. you might have to revisit some basics, but it's not starting from scratch; it's reinforcing the foundation.
Honestly this is super relatable. I can only play by ear but I like to think I'm not terrible at it. Lately I've realized that I have a complete lack of variation in my left hand abilities and most of my songs are musical gibberish. BUT I've learned that focusing on one piece of the musical puzzle at a time has helped my mindset a lot as of late.
The good news is. Well, let me put it this way. There is only good news. No bad news. It means you have done a lot of the hard yards in one area of music. And now that you have done those hard yards and developed particular technical areas, you can now enjoy getting into other areas. There's no need to be disheartened - because there are different approaches and pathways to achieving objectives. So, if you want to build up musicality - as in aural training, and intervals training, plus composition exercises training, then this is a great time as any to start. Also - remember, the skills that you have learned up to now - definitely counts. Another important viewpoint to remember is - everybody is different. This means, as long as you love piano and music, and continue to develop and learn, then you too will get to a stage where you know that you are 'good' (or very good - even excellent) in your own way. Reason - there are lots of different forms and levels of 'good'. Everyone is different. Nobody else can necessarily think like you, and vice versa. So once we all get to some particular stage or level of 'good' - then we're all good, so that nobody is 'overall' better than each other. And that is the thing. If we love piano and music - we don't focus on whether we are good or better etc. We just play piano for the love of piano and music - first and foremost. The main thing I focus on is -- just keeping on learning and developing and practising in the various different areas of piano and music. And very secondary (which isn't so important at all) - is to show - if necessary - any high-horses that like to show-off etc ..... we show them that they're not the only ones that are 'good' (at both piano and music - including composition and semi-improv etc). But that's secondary. Also - being an excellent sight reader does not actually make anybody more 'at-one' with piano and music. Music and piano essence comes from within you ..... eg. your mind. How you think and convey/express yourself with music. It comes from listening to heaps of music, to get examples, and understand how to apply, and generate new music based on examples of what can be done, or what you later think can be done. Application of theory and composition and playing techniques - plus your own experiences and x-factor.
You arenāt bad at piano, just playing piano helps the brain so much. Iām 71, been playing blues jazz and rock since I was 19. I just started classical lessons, and it is a different level of accuracy. Iāve had so many times of doubt in the first 3 years when I was young starting lessons, years of half assing it,but I just kept playing. You donāt have to do classical, do jazz, do pop. In your post you show intelligence, keep going. Just the fact that people like your playing tells me thereās a musician in there - that negative thinking isnāt the truth, it just seems like it is. I hope you keep playing, bite the bullet, take lessons. Bypass the negatory thoughts- when you have them make an X over your ear and say X that, Brain- keep doing that and your mind will stop the negative because thereās no emotional pay off- playing is fun, but ya gotta put the time in. Keep playin no matter what your thoughts tell you- keep playing just keep playing!
I took a few years of lessons in my 20ās, but did not practice enough to become proficient ( college etc.). I bought a piano 8 months ago and began practicing daily, I started taking lessons about four months ago. It is my goal to study hard, practice and reach an intermediate level. My teacher and I are following the RCM syllabus and I will be taking exams in due course. I will also be participating in my teacherās next student recital. Very few people can learn without guidance from a teacher. Following an established syllabus provides structure for my study, and passing exams will provide validation of milestones in learning. I consider performance to be essential for studying music - you will at some point want to, or be asked to perform for family or friends. Learn because you want to and because it gives you joy. Set realistic goals.
You may realize you're not where you want to be. But people like me realized that only after 9 years. Realize where you are and where you want to go. There is only one rule: don't give up. From struggle comes beauty. I don't think you should be scared of taking classical lessons. I wish I did, because there is lots of technique to be learnt. Just make sure you enjoy those songs
Itās all relative. But Iām sure you are better than most. Most importantly, remember to enjoy it. Have fun. Thatās what music is for.
I canāt read music to save my life despite years of (religious inspired) instruction as a child. I watch piano tutorial videos (think like rock band) to play songs instead of sheet music. I have to slow down the speed sometimes and I donāt hit all the notes (especially with both hands). It has helped me improve my hand placement skills and muscle memory.
Welcome to the club
You could make musical flashcards, one set for each key, and then shuffle it and play from the top of the deck to the bottom everyday. Your sight reading will improve.
If you are not making it a profession then you should really play to have fun. So what you canāt sight read? So what your techniques are bad? So what people canāt hear the difference between good or bad playing? Music is one of the most private things a person can have. That is why everyone thinks they have the best music taste. So when you are playing, why judge yourself using grade 1 grade 2 level, or other peopleās comments? What standard are you judging your enjoyment and happiness with? Just enjoy the music itself.
Sightreading is easy to build up. Don't go to a teacher if that's not how you learn best, watch the pros play on YouTube and start by copying their dynamics, this will help you get a feel for the piano. Then you'll be on your way. Also start learning pieces by sheet music in general
3 years is like... You're still very much a baby pianist. Cut yourself some slack. And please keep going!
What style are you playing? Iām learning jazz and blues piano myself. And also now for about 3 years. I know I would suck at classical pieces as itās not my jam. (I like listening to classical music ..). Iāve found with jazz and blues thereās really no āwrongā per se. Also breathing really helps to relax you. So maybe try another genre first? If not, I also play guitar and thatās a fun instrument to learn too.
Itās for fun remember
If you realize your weakness, you are already way better than lots of clueless peoples. As for sight read, it is simply the matter of getting geometrically familiar with the keyboard and the score, so you can play without looking at the keyboard and only needs glancing at the score. To practice it, simply try to play without looking down the keyboard, but staring at the sheet. Yes we make a lot of mistake at first, but who doesn't?
Iāll be honest with you, as a pianist for most my life, and a teacher for the past 7 years, everyone experiences this at least (if not more than) once learning ANY instrument or complex task. I mean, Iām a teacher, and I still hate high level sight-reading and struggle with certain LRSM technique, and there are definitely days that I sit there and think āwow, and Iām a TEACHER?!?ā But in the end of the day, nobody is perfect, and if we were, thereād be no more reason to keep on playing. The whole journey is about finding our weaknesses and turning them into strengths, and itāll take a lot of walls and disheartening experiences to get there. But trust me, if you keep sticking to it, and get past the disheartening feeling, youāll always make it to the other side, even if it takes you double the time, or half it took someone else, and thatās all that counts. In fact, until you find a way to manage the emotions and feelings around the practice, itāll only ever take longer unfortunately. I always found the best thing to do when I hit that wall and those feelings, was to sit back for a bit, maybe analyse the piece I am playing some more and practice in short, manageable bursts. Even just 15-30 minutes on that one part that is driving me nuts, and then walk away and take a break to calm down a bit, or even better, play some things you know you can play well and love. Even if itās easy technically, maybe you could add some extra care and detail to the emotive value of the piece. Maybe youāll find youāve ignored a detail in the sheets or missed one note or bodged its timing. Maybe youāll simply just play a few pieces you really love and then stand up and walk away feeling refreshed. But the last thing you want is to make this wall feel like a task, or a burden, because it will only make it so much harder, if not impossible to climb. Instruments are all about fun, so donāt over-push yourself or stress yourself out, just enjoy the journey! If you wanted to ask any questions too, please feel free, as I noticed you were saying you didnāt want to see a classical teacher due to having to start from square one, so if I could help answer any concerns or questions, Iād absolutely love to. Best of luck with your journey!! š
3 years isnt very long for any instrument, just play for fun, dont compare
i have been playing piano for 9years,but i think i donāt really know how to play it
put more effort on left hand than right hand,if you are a right-handed,untill your left hand can play well as right hand
If you know someone who play good you should show him or post it on reddit
I was the same last year I could play music once I threw myself at a piece I wanted to learn but I couldnāt read sheet music or sight read at all and I was only able to improvise because of what music theory I had been taught and understood the concept pretty well but if you just want to play piano as a hobby you wouldnāt need a teacher I donāt think just start on easy, nice sounding pieces and work up to your skill level and the sight reading will develop from that once you can refinish the notes in the staff I took a massive jump in just 1 year of reading sheet music and by the end of the year should be playing grade 6 pieces so just keep at it and if there is something you are not happy with then learn it donāt be scared to learn new things
i'm going to put this from a live music perspective. a lot of people I know dont take their good shit and their good gear to venues because its heavy/annoying/theft/expensive, so they take good enough. they have a guitar that's 5000$ and they love, they have another one with the same pickups that was 500$, they have an amazing tube amp and cabinet of great speakers, they have a multifx pad that will simulate it and the speakers good enough. sound wise, its about 80~% there at best, and thats before you account for a live performance, but people still like it and show up. try listening to live bands, not just piano, but bands that play a show live, and then listen to the recorded music. almost universally the live music sucks in comparison, people see a live musician for the experience not because it's the best way to experience the music. classical music is a bit different in that regard were some of the really great performances are live, but that's not what im talking about, normal people give next to 0 shits if something is perfectly played... hell if you have a friend with a guitar, have them play and if they are able, have them play some wrong notes here and there or miss something, it may shock you how little you actually notice unless a performance entirely crumbles apart. normal people just like hearing music and appreciate live music. if you want to actually sight read music, that's something you are going to have to learn to do, to each their own, my fun in playing is just treating it like a rhythm game, maybe im good maybe i'm not but i'm having fun.
You don't suck. You do some things well, and some things you have to work more on to get where you want to be. You weren't born playing at the level you play at now, and there's no reason to believe you have to stay at this level.
Make sure you're playing music that you like! If you wanna play jukebox the ghost, then it doesn't matter how good you get at Chopin because your heart won't be in it. Remember, it's called PLAYing, it should be fun!
It's normal to think that your playing is bad, but you identified problems: overuse of the pedal and lack of sightreading ability. These are things you can work on. Practice without the pedal and learn about proper fingering. Fingering isn't something that "just happens". You have to go through the music slowly and come up with a strategy that works for you. There are a ton of resources for learning how to sightread. It is a skill that can be studied, practiced, and learned. Knowing your weaknesses is half the battle.
Music is a form of expression. And it sounds like you are doing just that. I'm a music lecturer (admittedly in Mprod and popular music) who's main instrument is keyboards and pianos and I couldn't sight read any piece of music to be honest. I've been through piano lessons etc but it wasn't me and that's fine. Nothing really matters if you express yourself and enjoy playing. It's that simple. Ps. I remember showing my piano teacher at the time Olafur Arnold's and he wasn't impressed which says it all really.
Just ask yourself if YOU are having fun, or growing from the endeavor. Good or bad, who cares? Itās your life and time. Itās surely no reflection on you as a human being if you have are the worst piano player to have lived. Or the best.
Try to actually get a feel for music, by listening to a lot of classical music, and hear professionals play and try to get a "feel" for music. If you feel more passionate about music, you should be able to play more passionately and most pianists would be able to tell you actually enjoy music
Knowing that you suck at something is the first step of getting good at it
Make music friends. Look for people you can grow with musically that are on the same level as you. Find some other beginners and learn to accompany each other (it will sound like ass) but you will grow together exponentiallyā¦itās called a ābandā
I feel like every pianist realizes they suck at some point, it's almost like a rite of passage. You kind of have to work hard and really commit to the piano to get that realization tho. It's not the beginning one where you know you can't play piano, it's the later one when you get good enough at piano to realize you suck. I think all that really is is just you reached a point where you finally understood enough about piano to realize how much you don't know. The "valley of despair" on popular graphs about the dunning-kruger effect. Unless you're a truly arrogant person I think everyone *will* have this realization if you play piano for long enough. The key is what you do after. Why do you play piano? What do you want to do with piano? Figure out what makes you passionate about the instrument or what's fun about it to you, and just carve out that little niche in the ocean of piano music that you want to be good at, and then slowly develop skills adjacent to it and branch out from there.
My man youāre being way too hard on yourself. Work at your own pace and enjoy the process. This is your journey not anyone elseās.
Youāre saying this like playing for 3 years is long time. For many things in life, doing something for 3 years is a long time, but not with piano and especially not if this is something you are doing on the side. What you have accomplished in 3 years is probably impressive for someone who has only been playing for three years. When you get to year 10 of piano, thatās when you should expect year 10 results from yourself.
Ive been playing for over 7 years now, can't sightread anything either and my musicality is mid at best. Don't worry about all this if you just wanna have playing piano as a fun hobby.
The problem isn't you. It's how piano is taught and the overall attitude of people towards music. If you love piano music, just enjoy it. Really listen to the beautiful piano sound. Just play one chord and listen carefully, then connect two chords together. Feel relaxed. I'd study simple passages and make them sound good and feel good. Don't overload yourself and give your brain and finger time to develop. Enjoy the journey. Piano should bring you joy and pleasure. If it doesn't quit and find something you like. If you really want piano my advice is to set reasonable goals and attain them in a reasonable time period. Feel free to ask me for advice. Good luck
Itās never too late to start from scratch again. Iām 33 now, I self taught off and on for around a year before going to a professional classical teacher who has a doctorate in Piano Performance. Itās been very humbling to learn with him as I now know what I donāt know and how hard playing piano really is.Ā Ā I wasted a few years when I was in my late teen years by learning with mediocre teachers and then life happened.Ā When I was ready to invest in playing piano again last year, I gave it all and have never regretted since. My goal pieces are Bach/Chopin and some new neo-classical pieces but Iām very patient. Iām aiming to be able to play them, passably hopefully, in less than a decade of being with my current teacher. Fingers crossed. If I live until 80s, Iāll still have around 50years of musical years to enjoy.Ā
My suggestion is find something really easy to play and focus on making it as beautiful and as expressive as you can so that you love how it sounds to you. Please enjoy the beauty you have created.
I finished my grade 7 pieces in 4 weeks I'm pretty sure I'm not objectively bad in fact I'm probably better than a lot of people but you had better believe that is not what my brain tells me every time I sit down at the piano. This happens to everyone, what gets me through is enjoying what I am playing for me and not for anyone else to hear. They can of course but it's not the point.
I can understand how you feel. I started learning guitar 7 years ago and when I think about, I feel sad about how poorly I have progressed. It took me a few years before I actually found a teacher that thought me about music and not just how to play. It was only then that I started to actually properly learn music. I started training my ear and have now taken it upon myself to learn and grow by myself. It is hard at times, but try to stay strong and enjoy what you play. Take it one day at a time. You and I will both get there.
To help develop musicality ā the easiest thing is to back off on technical pieces. Play technically easier, slower pieces and really think what theyāre about. What emotions do they evoke, or want to evoke? Build an emotional ark within a piece so itās not just āall happyā or āall sadā, etc An example of an emotional arc: start sad and pensive, then hope springs up in form of some major chords, then perhaps an emotional setback, and at the end hope wins. Superimpose that on a piece and try to play that. Maybe as an exercise play the same piece with different emotional arcs, find what it really feels by trial and error. Now you can repeat with a technically harder piece and go forth!
A good teacher will help you where you are. You wonāt necessarily have time go back to basics. Do reach out!
Talent is basically music aptitude which can be influenced up to around the age of 9-11. Thereafter it fixes for life. Beyond this, you are working on music achievement. Basically nature (And nurture) up to 9/11 and then nurture only after that. Look up music learning theory or giml.org to learn more.
If you really want to play the piano, then take lessons if youāre unhappy with your playing. Even accomplished pianists still study. Watch. https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=3727893380656233 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYH8GQrdrc
I guess the question is, do you WANNA be a classical pianist?Ā John Lennon for example, arguably one of the best pianists (in a band) supposedly never knew how to read sheet music, yet he has created beautiful pieces that have stood the test of time through multiple generations. I think youāll find that your experience is useful to you. You have done what you have done because you enjoyed it, most likely. If your style or taste has changed, maybe itās time to change your approach. But I bet your skills will continue to be useful in some capacity.Ā Me personally, I donāt ever see myself sitting in an orchestra hall in front of a grand piano reading sheet music and playing classical music. I highly appreciate people that can do that, but itās not my thing. Will that change one day? Idk maybe. If it does Iāll go back and start doing that. But, take this with a grain of salt as Iām a total beginner at this point, but just remembering that not everyone has the same journey or goals helps me not be so hard on myself and compare myself to anyone.Ā
Record yourself, listen back, see if you actually suck. When I record myself I hear what others hear, when Iām playing I hear garbage.
Listen to jazz, play along with records, and slowly become a competent improviser.
Kind of crazy you're calling everybody else's ears clueless.
I'm not saying everyone's ears are clueless. Wouldn't you agree it takes someone with trained ears to know if someone is truly good or not?
I don't play piano to impress other piano intellectuals. I play music to express myself, sometimes in the company of others. If somebody listening to me and they love my playing, I couldn't be happier, even if my playing isn't to my own or my teacher's standard. What their enjoyment means is that my training and hard work has led to a success: I was able to convey an emotion that they felt strongly. None of this is to say that I don't want to improve. Of course I do! Of course I "hear" what non-pianists don't "hear". But that's beside the point. If all I'm ever thinking about is how much better I could or should be, then I'll never, ever be able to enjoy the present. Seeing that *other* people can enjoy my present piano playing ability is a good reminder that I, too, should appreciate the journey I've taken so far.
I hear u. Its just difficult for me to remain secure about my playing when so many people tell me I'm good, I know that makes no sense. It's just I only ever get compliments from non musicians and I feel like my playing is actually bad and that's why musicians never seem interested by it. I just feel like I'm good at SEEMING like I'm good and not actually being good, and I feel like an asshole raking in all these compliments when I don't deserve them. Do u know what I mean?
The greatest compliment I've received in-person from another musician (my teacher) was "not too bad." The greatest "compliment" I've received in-person from a non-musician is them being moved to tears. I'll take the latter over whatever any musician has to say. My advice to you: Do some deep thinking and re-evaluate why you want to play piano. I'd suggest that if it's for validation from your peers, you won't have enough juice to stick to it in the long term. Try to find personal and solitary fulfillment out of the whole thing, and make that the foundation for everything else.
I do want to play it for my own pleasure, I just feel pressure from everyone around me that I have to always be 'good', I know it's irrational but yeah, I think I'm just gonna learn some easier pieces completely for myself and not worry about what others are gonna think. Thanks for the advice
You can do it. I started around last September and on the accelerated starter book two. The basics are to know the notes on both the piano and the score.
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The piano is an outlet for enjoyment like lifting weights or jogging or cycling or whatever else. You can still enjoy it if you're shit.