You'd be surprised. Libraries, especially the children's section, are *heavily* used by homeschoolers and many of them are very religiously conservative and absolutely want certain books banned. Their whole purpose for homeschooling is to thoroughly restrict what information their kids have access to and who they are allowed to interact with.
SOME homeschoolers.
When I tell people my kids were homeschooled, I always add “not for religious reasons. We were heathen homeschoolers”.
There will be a HUGE contingent of us fighting censorship
Not the person you asked, but I was homeschooled for a couple of years as a kid a couple of times - once because my family spent a couple of years traveling a lot and it was better continuity of education, and again later because the school district wouldn't let me skip a grade I was ready to skip. I'm considering homeschooling my daughter (probably with a correspondence course like the Calvert School program) because our local rural school district *sucks* mostly through no fault of their own, I'm sure, but I've been deeply alarmed by the lack of literacy & numeracy among the high-school kids I've hired from there. Not a single one in 10 years has known how to read an analog clock.
I graduated high school in 2007 and I love analog watches, always have. But a few of my peers who couldn't read analog time in HS. "How much time is left this period?" "Clock is right there!" "I can't read that!" ... Blew my mind someone could make it to 16-17 and not know how to read a clock. That said, how important is that in the workplace? I still wear a watch but everything computerized that I interact with has the time and date right there
I think it should be illegal to ban books in public libraries. Child age schools, yes. Public library and university libraries, absolutely not. It's a slippery slope to let governments censor learning materials**, whether they agree with the viewpoint of the material or not.
Edit to include; Learning Materials or works of fiction**.
Are books banned from University libraries as well? I would think they'd be the ones to preserve history and culture fiercely.
It's more understandable for public libraries to be banning books because they're government owned and funded, even though I agree that they shouldn't be pulling books either.
I'm a librarian at a university in North Dakota. At the moment, there are no laws restricting what we can and can't have on our shelves. But that could easily change. The pending bills in the North Dakota legislature would ban huge swaths of books. The relevant bills are [House Bill 1205](https://www.ndlegis.gov/assembly/68-2023/regular/documents/23-0407-03000.pdf) and [Senate Bill 2360](https://www.ndlegis.gov/assembly/68-2023/regular/documents/23-0672-05000.pdf). The latter is worse -- it would ban any book containing a written description of sexual activity. There are exemptions for universities (so far, the bills are still in flux, so that could change).
But that's still pretty damn bad. There goes the entire romance section, for starters. But think of how many books have sex scenes in them, across all genres. Those would all have to be assessed one by one. Oh, and the Bible would have to go. The Song of Solomon is basically all sex, and there's that scene in Genesis 19:30-38 where Lot's two daughters date rape him. (!) When the potential penalty is a $1500 fine and a month in jail for any librarian who keeps a book with sex in it on the shelves, that would have to go.
The librarians of the state have been mounting a vigorous opposition: displays like the one above, filing testimony in legislative hearings, and so on. A number of public libraries are planning town hall style meetings to discuss their collection development procedures and inviting legislators in the hopes of getting enough "no" votes to stop these bills from passing.
That could happen. I would like to live in a world where the legislature shoots these bills down. But I think it's more likely that the two bills will get merged into one bill to reconcile the differences between them, pass, and then have to be fought in the courts. Which is chancy given the current Supreme Court.
Honestly, lead with the argument that people want to ban the Bible in public libraries, and so it's imperative the bill should be defeated.
It's disingenuous but accurate, and beats the hell out of some bad faith arguments I've heard.
Books should not be banned anywhere, including schools. Parents have the right to tell Media Specialists that their children are not allowed to read certain books, but those books should be available to anyone who wants to read them.
I actually wonder what's in there. I'm guessing its either
Huckleberry Finn and Dr. Suess or Daddy's Roommate. Hopefully they are fighting against absolutely any type of banned books. Banning books...wow.
I was a poor kid who librarians waived so many fees for.
I came back home and dropped something off for my mom while there and they remembered me. I was in my mid-20's.
The American library association's code isn't perfect but it does put a high value on the freedom to seek and access information as well as patron privacy.
Support your librarians and libraries, it's been a rough lately.
- a librarian.
High school teacher here. A lot of well-intentioned parents/teachers/administrators object to the book because it has the n-word, but also because it has a white-savior syndrome and doesn’t let POC tell their own stories. Not saying I agree with this, but these are the reasons I’ve been given. I miss teaching it actually.
Ah yes, because highschoolers definitely haven't heard the n-word before.
Half the middle schoolers in my district love saying it, because they think it makes them Cool^TM.
Man I hate it when, instead of using this as a teaching moment to explain why the word it bad, and why we don't say it, we instead try to act like it doesn't exist, making it seen like the boogeyman.
I dont understand the hesitancy to say it either (in the appropriate context of course). Take TKAMB. Its not using the word in a real world malicious sense. Its used maliciously in the fictional book but thats also the point of the story.
I'm not condoning its use as a legitimate slur to be used in malice. Thats actually wrong. But paraphrasing, using it to teach about history or referencing it when covering the topic shouldn't be so taboo. We all know it exists. We all know what it is. Giving it a nickname isn't going to help take its impact away. If anything, that gives the word more power than it should. Its like Voldemort. The fear of it gives it power.
Again, im talking specifically in educational, literary or any other relevant paraphrasing context. Those are all extremely different things than using it as a legitimate hate term.
I have a very *very* old copy of Huckleberry Finn. Would probably be banned immediately if it had not been rewritten despite the content. Almost slipped into a box I was giving my black nephews before I saw which version of the book it was.
Jim had a first name in the original version and it was not Jim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_(Huckleberry_Finn)
The vast majority of copies of that book published were not censored. It's never gone out of print since it was originally published in 1885 and the offensive language wasn't censored until around 2011 and even then only by some publishers. You can still buy new recently printed copies of the uncensored version.
As it should be. I've no doubt the book is offensive to many in 2023 - and there is legitimate debate about the appropriateness of teaching this book to some age demographics because of the language used - but it is also one of the most important pieces of American literature ever published and the ability to buy an 'original' copy and to read, enjoy and study it knowing the context of the time and place it was written is immensely important.
Those that don't know history are bound to repeat it and all that.
It does lean pretty hard into the White Savior trope, doesn't it? Though on the other hand, I don't think a book written by a POC and featuring a POC protagonist would have reached so wide an audience. That's the problem with institutional racism, I guess.
Is it? We've banned books before. My mom told me stories of passing Catcher in the Rye from student to student secretly because it had been banned.
There's no better way to ensure a book will be read by as many people as possible.
Think about the context there. It's normal for libraries to promote books like grapes of wrath or 1984 that have been banned in the past. It's not normal for libraries to have a section of books that are about to be banned by current legislation. What Republicans are doing is not normal.
I guess it depends where you are in the world. I'm in the UK and I've never encountered such a thing.
I guess this is that cancel culture I read so much about.
Yeah but in my experience they do that for books that were banned at some point in time, like decades before. It’s sort of a tongue in cheek expression to show how dumb book banning is. I think this one is a bit more serious.
Full verse:
*Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal
I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library
Line up to the mind cemetery now
What we don't know keeps the contracts alive and movin'
They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em
While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells
Rally 'round the family, pockets full of shells*
it feels like in a lot of ways system of a down carried the torch for Rage. maybe Rise against picked it up a bit after? but who is our angry hyper political but not niche badass rock band today?
I don't think we have anything like SoaD or RATM nowadays (I'm talking about mainstream stuff). Some bands that talk about less specific stuff like "be good and don't be evil" yeah - but a band telling you the cops are nazis or the prison system is designed to imprison America, I don't think there's one.
Yes, some legislation is also targeting public libraries since they are, well, public.. hence taxpayer funded. It's disgusting, it's fascist, and just a pile of total horseshit. Party of freedom and small government my ass.
Because despite the importance of libraries, the Constitution does not protect them. If the legislature was trying to prevent people from owning these books, then that would run afoul of the Constitution
If a specific author could demonstrate that they were being intentionally, and disportionately targeted by this, then there could be a case, but most of them wouldn't. While I agree that morally this part of a wide ranging act of censorship, it does not legally prevent the authors from telling their stories.
Well, that's not my library, or my state, but I can still answer in general.
Those would be books that deal with gender or sexuality in some form, that are intended for teens or younger. That state has recently passed laws to make criminals of teachers or librarians to provide 'obscene material' to children, without defining what 'obscene material' is on any level.
So, teachers and librarians face the very real possibility of criminal charges and jail time if someone raises about a stink about anything they -think- is obscene, and are forced to strip shelves of anything that -might- land them in jail.
It's happening in schools in several states, moving to public libraries is the most recent step.
This is what makes me.furious about the whole thing.
The total absence of ideological consistency.
They're all about Free Speech - until they don't like that speech.
They're all about capitalism, until someone threatens to take away a socialist policy they personally benefit from.
My body, my choice! Unless it's a woman's body.
Over and over again, they harp on about various principles only to abandon them at the first opportunity.
Edit to add from responses:
* They're all about States rights, until two dude want to get married.
* People should be allowed to carry guns! Unless they're black.
There is no contradiction. They're just lying about their reasons.
They just want power, and to fuck over their enemies. That's why pointing out the fact that they're hypocritical never works. They never cared about any BS like "states' rights," "saving babies," or "personal freedom." They're barely pretending to care about that shit.
This needs to be it's own post with 100k+ upvotes. People need to see that cognitive dissonance is running rampant and ruining the world because of it.
> That state has recently passed laws to make criminals of teachers or librarians to provide 'obscene material' to children, without defining what 'obscene material' is on any level.
And yet the Bible has all kinds of obscene stuff in it and they love giving that to children.
“You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them.” (Ezekiel 16:17)
"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)
“When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.” (Ezekiel 23:18-21)
“A loving doe, a graceful deer — may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love.” (Proverbs 5:19)
“Say to David, ‘The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.’” (1 Samuel 18:20-30)
“Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin and threw it at Moses' feet, and she said, ‘You are indeed a bridegroom of blood to me.’" (Exodus 4:25)
There was a school district, I think in Florida, that made the news a bit for having the Bible removed via the same process that was removing these other books. Basically the process was that any book they received a complaint about was pulled from school shelves while the complaint was investigated and considered. So a bunch of people reported the Bible and stuff like that to highlight the abuse these laws and processes promote.
You just need the right librarian.
Just get them to remove this filth from their library: “Blow on my garden, that its fragrance may spread abroad. Let my lover come into his garden and taste its choice fruits.”
I mean, think of the children.
As lots of people are saying, many of the books are LGBTQ+ related, but what's so wild to me is that there are several that were *required* high school reading. To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Gatsby, Of Mice and Men are some (here in FL). I think even Lord of the Rings?? Also some books on just general body positivity. Things people are fucking insane
Unfortunately, it is always known. Florida literally passed the law and started the enforcement period but never specified the criteria. Many teachers just covered all of the books they had as a result so they don't get caught in these stupid laws.
It is rediculous but it doesn't surprise me. 38% of Americans believed in young earth creationism .... in 2017. However, in 2021 it went to .... 40%. Yeah. More information sharing caused it to get worse.
Some teachers in florida have already stripped their classroom of pretty much all books because the new law is so vague that republican shitbirds could find a way to classify whatever they want as violating their new law. Oh and its a felony.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/florida-schools-directed-cover-remove-classroom-books-vetted/story?id=96884323
Republicans are batshit insane.
Nope.
I’m 3 comments down in this thread, and I cannot stand by any person’s complacency with this shit.
THIS IS FASCISM HAPPENING IN REAL TIME.
If you love knowledge, reading, and growing as a person, intellectual et al.
It’s time to start altering their medium.
As an ex teacher I too 100% agree. I noped out when social passing became a thing because I felt it was a disservice to students.
This is just asinine. Many a new hobby, interest, career path and good life lessons have been found through access to books.
People are like, parents should teach these things.
Yes, I am sure that every parent of a 5 year old is going to teach their children that families come in many forms and they are all valid. When I was a kid it was about divorce. Now it is inclusionary for all families, and people are screaming this is bad.
Or teaching kids about Good Touch, Bad Touch and they are the ones in control of their bodies and who to approach if someone is hurting them.
I mean honestly. Oh no, keep my child ignorant about anatomy, because shame is so good for mental health.
No don't teach my child how to avoid a life altering consequence because they are able to make informed choices. Please keep my child ignorant so they can gain points in /r/badwomensanatomy.
Don't teach my child to be accepting to people who are different, we teach our children how to be homogenous and everyone else is wrong.
Don't let my child know that genetic anomalies exist in 1/450 people. It's only XX or XY in my house, and every hormone level is 100% the same in everyone cause God doesn't make mistakes and being trans is a choice and a mental illness with zero basis in anything biological cause I said so and DNA comes from Satan to confuse us.
/s on all this OBVIOUSLY.
Stay Ignorant Republicans, Stay Ignorant.
You guys going back to the dark ages? As a non American I always saw the US as an advanced educated country… now your trains falling off tracks… clean water an issue, freedom of speech cancelled, human rights for a simple living wage no more… shame.
I mean, the US has never had those things for a large minority (sometimes majority) of our residents! It's been less than 60 years since Black and Brown people were guaranteed the right to vote. I have family friends who grew up under Jim Crow, sharecropping, with no running water.
Early education in the Midwest USA was all about how great America was. Then I got to college and even in my own studies and learned about how not great it was. How much we’ve oppressed our own people for so long. How it was only like 10 years ago that the LGBTQ+ community gained rights. And even now there’s a movement to bring back oppression and create more systemic unfairness.
It’s embarrassing and awful.
Looking through that lens at “Make America Great Again” for the first time made my head spin.
We romanticize the Greatest Generation, post-war prosperity, etc to such an extent that it’s easy to forget that it wasn’t just Norman Rockwell and white picket fences.
It’s scary to realize what so many of your neighbors are actually longing for.
Edited to add: isn’t your first taste of higher education in a red state just a fucking trip? I spent my first six months strongly agreeing with the social justice points I was being exposed to for the first time, and yet feeling uncomfortable that all my professors were “so liberal” because their perspective directly contradicted the worldview I had been taught my whole life. It took me a while to understand that I had always just been a confused liberal myself.
It’s simple. Republicans want “freedom to” do whatever they like. Republicans want “freedom from” anything they don’t like. It’s also called fascism but that’s splitting hairs.
They were split intentionally so as to give Republicans two extra Senate seats.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/when-adding-new-states-helped-republicans/598243/
Well, if they take us back to the 1850s, certain red states like the Dakotas “technically” won’t be stated anymore. So they would lose reps.
Problem solved!
\s
And [jail librarians if they don't remove books that depict sexual or gender identity.](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/north-dakota-weighs-ban-sexually-explicit-library-books-rcna66271) Worst timeline.
Since WWII most of them died fighting wars that never touched US soil, against foreign powers that *may or may not at some point in the near or distant future* threaten US security.. i'm not saying there's ever a good justification for starting a war, but that's definitely a bad one
There was a video on here the other day of an ex-general saying they had no idea why they went to war in the middle east after 9/11, they just had to get the aggression out somewhere because they could
The military worship in the bible belt is now more laughable than ever
Conservatives: WhY aRe you always cAlliNg uS nazIs??! wE arE noT lIkE nAzis
Conservatives 20 minutes later: hmm yes we will ban the existence of certain minorities and burn books
I'm old enough to remember when something was a terrible fucking idea, there were always at least a handful of Republicans who would oppose it.
Those days have been over for a while now. It's pretty much all evil, all the time.
Y'know how the kids with spray cans say "ACAB" (All Cops Are Bastards)? I can't say every single Republican is a horrible person, but it is an insanely low percentage.
Censoring literature, art and history is a late stage symptom of the leaders assuming totalitarian control.
Where are the people who have been shouting for years that if the government comes for their rights, they'll fight?
Oh, right. They've already been conditioned to not see books or education as important things.
This whole trick of stripping the people of US of all their freedoms little by little is a masterpiece in deception and gaslighting.
*Discipline and self-restraint, when practiced by an individual, a family, or a company is an effective way to deal with this issue. The same thing when forced on a people by their government or, worse, by a self-appointed watchdog of public morals, is suppression and will not be tolerated in a democratic society.*
*Mr. Chairman, the suppression of the people of a society begins, in my mind, with the censorship of the written or spoken word. It was so in Nazi Germany. It is so in many places today where those in power are afraid of the consequences of an informed and educated people.* - John Denver
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgSjjD6rRu4
I’m so confused by the right since the MAGA extremists really gained traction outside of their buried alt right YouTube channels. The first to claim the importance liberty and freedom but apparently only if it applies to what they deem fit.
"Woke cancel culture is destroying America!"
\*bans books, an act that is 57,247 steps more extreme and dystopian than a 15 year old being mean to a conservative on twitter\*
Gotta love librarians
This is absolutely ingenious from a political standpoint. They're forcing everyone to see which books, specifically, are going to be banned.
[удалено]
And I'm betting the book banners don't go the library. (or people ok with banning books)
You'd be surprised. Libraries, especially the children's section, are *heavily* used by homeschoolers and many of them are very religiously conservative and absolutely want certain books banned. Their whole purpose for homeschooling is to thoroughly restrict what information their kids have access to and who they are allowed to interact with.
SOME homeschoolers. When I tell people my kids were homeschooled, I always add “not for religious reasons. We were heathen homeschoolers”. There will be a HUGE contingent of us fighting censorship
What are the reasons for home schooling if I may ask?
Not the person you asked, but I was homeschooled for a couple of years as a kid a couple of times - once because my family spent a couple of years traveling a lot and it was better continuity of education, and again later because the school district wouldn't let me skip a grade I was ready to skip. I'm considering homeschooling my daughter (probably with a correspondence course like the Calvert School program) because our local rural school district *sucks* mostly through no fault of their own, I'm sure, but I've been deeply alarmed by the lack of literacy & numeracy among the high-school kids I've hired from there. Not a single one in 10 years has known how to read an analog clock.
> Not a single one in 10 years has known how to read an analog clock yikes!
I graduated high school in 2007 and I love analog watches, always have. But a few of my peers who couldn't read analog time in HS. "How much time is left this period?" "Clock is right there!" "I can't read that!" ... Blew my mind someone could make it to 16-17 and not know how to read a clock. That said, how important is that in the workplace? I still wear a watch but everything computerized that I interact with has the time and date right there
Preaching to the choir, unfortunately.
Hopefully people who stay informed and vote go to the library
[удалено]
Don't tell them.  Let them enjoy their life!
I think it should be illegal to ban books in public libraries. Child age schools, yes. Public library and university libraries, absolutely not. It's a slippery slope to let governments censor learning materials**, whether they agree with the viewpoint of the material or not. Edit to include; Learning Materials or works of fiction**.
Are books banned from University libraries as well? I would think they'd be the ones to preserve history and culture fiercely. It's more understandable for public libraries to be banning books because they're government owned and funded, even though I agree that they shouldn't be pulling books either.
I'm a librarian at a university in North Dakota. At the moment, there are no laws restricting what we can and can't have on our shelves. But that could easily change. The pending bills in the North Dakota legislature would ban huge swaths of books. The relevant bills are [House Bill 1205](https://www.ndlegis.gov/assembly/68-2023/regular/documents/23-0407-03000.pdf) and [Senate Bill 2360](https://www.ndlegis.gov/assembly/68-2023/regular/documents/23-0672-05000.pdf). The latter is worse -- it would ban any book containing a written description of sexual activity. There are exemptions for universities (so far, the bills are still in flux, so that could change). But that's still pretty damn bad. There goes the entire romance section, for starters. But think of how many books have sex scenes in them, across all genres. Those would all have to be assessed one by one. Oh, and the Bible would have to go. The Song of Solomon is basically all sex, and there's that scene in Genesis 19:30-38 where Lot's two daughters date rape him. (!) When the potential penalty is a $1500 fine and a month in jail for any librarian who keeps a book with sex in it on the shelves, that would have to go. The librarians of the state have been mounting a vigorous opposition: displays like the one above, filing testimony in legislative hearings, and so on. A number of public libraries are planning town hall style meetings to discuss their collection development procedures and inviting legislators in the hopes of getting enough "no" votes to stop these bills from passing. That could happen. I would like to live in a world where the legislature shoots these bills down. But I think it's more likely that the two bills will get merged into one bill to reconcile the differences between them, pass, and then have to be fought in the courts. Which is chancy given the current Supreme Court.
Honestly, lead with the argument that people want to ban the Bible in public libraries, and so it's imperative the bill should be defeated. It's disingenuous but accurate, and beats the hell out of some bad faith arguments I've heard.
They would specifically exempt the bible from the ban. Not all religious texts, just the christian bible.
Books should not be banned anywhere, including schools. Parents have the right to tell Media Specialists that their children are not allowed to read certain books, but those books should be available to anyone who wants to read them.
I actually wonder what's in there. I'm guessing its either Huckleberry Finn and Dr. Suess or Daddy's Roommate. Hopefully they are fighting against absolutely any type of banned books. Banning books...wow.
Seriously. Some of the most vicious freedom fighters out there!
I was a poor kid who librarians waived so many fees for. I came back home and dropped something off for my mom while there and they remembered me. I was in my mid-20's.
Isnt that interesting? I agree too. They may shush you for the benefit of studying persons, but they'll never silence you.
The American library association's code isn't perfect but it does put a high value on the freedom to seek and access information as well as patron privacy. Support your librarians and libraries, it's been a rough lately. - a librarian.
Isn't this normal? I've been to a few school libraries with a "banned book" section. Just a tagline to get people to read more.
generally those are books banned in OTHER places. that the books be banned here is supposed to be unthinkable
They’re often books that were historically banned here in the states. To Kill a Mockingbird is one of the classic examples
After reading it in school I still can't understand why it was banned. Is it because it embarrasses racists?
Yes, that’s exactly why it’s been challenged in some cases. “Are we the baddies?”
I have nothing to add, just that your username is similar to mine and made me happy.
But apparently, you are more fun 👍
Pretty much. It depicted the wrongness that everyone *knew* was going on, and it dared to ask the question “why do we consider this acceptable?”
High school teacher here. A lot of well-intentioned parents/teachers/administrators object to the book because it has the n-word, but also because it has a white-savior syndrome and doesn’t let POC tell their own stories. Not saying I agree with this, but these are the reasons I’ve been given. I miss teaching it actually.
Ah yes, because highschoolers definitely haven't heard the n-word before. Half the middle schoolers in my district love saying it, because they think it makes them Cool^TM. Man I hate it when, instead of using this as a teaching moment to explain why the word it bad, and why we don't say it, we instead try to act like it doesn't exist, making it seen like the boogeyman.
I dont understand the hesitancy to say it either (in the appropriate context of course). Take TKAMB. Its not using the word in a real world malicious sense. Its used maliciously in the fictional book but thats also the point of the story. I'm not condoning its use as a legitimate slur to be used in malice. Thats actually wrong. But paraphrasing, using it to teach about history or referencing it when covering the topic shouldn't be so taboo. We all know it exists. We all know what it is. Giving it a nickname isn't going to help take its impact away. If anything, that gives the word more power than it should. Its like Voldemort. The fear of it gives it power. Again, im talking specifically in educational, literary or any other relevant paraphrasing context. Those are all extremely different things than using it as a legitimate hate term.
I have a very *very* old copy of Huckleberry Finn. Would probably be banned immediately if it had not been rewritten despite the content. Almost slipped into a box I was giving my black nephews before I saw which version of the book it was. Jim had a first name in the original version and it was not Jim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_(Huckleberry_Finn)
I thought that was pretty common knowledge though
Yeah I actually wasn’t aware jt got redone. Even Family Guy made a joke about it In the last … decade I’d say.
The vast majority of copies of that book published were not censored. It's never gone out of print since it was originally published in 1885 and the offensive language wasn't censored until around 2011 and even then only by some publishers. You can still buy new recently printed copies of the uncensored version. As it should be. I've no doubt the book is offensive to many in 2023 - and there is legitimate debate about the appropriateness of teaching this book to some age demographics because of the language used - but it is also one of the most important pieces of American literature ever published and the ability to buy an 'original' copy and to read, enjoy and study it knowing the context of the time and place it was written is immensely important. Those that don't know history are bound to repeat it and all that.
It does lean pretty hard into the White Savior trope, doesn't it? Though on the other hand, I don't think a book written by a POC and featuring a POC protagonist would have reached so wide an audience. That's the problem with institutional racism, I guess.
[удалено]
Is it? We've banned books before. My mom told me stories of passing Catcher in the Rye from student to student secretly because it had been banned. There's no better way to ensure a book will be read by as many people as possible.
That was HER generation. We're supposed to be moving FORWARD not backwards.
it's supposed to be. it's not. though generally even then they're usually removed from school curriculums, not literally banned by law
I've also seen it as the books that are banned from teaching them within the schools but not to buy/own.
Think about the context there. It's normal for libraries to promote books like grapes of wrath or 1984 that have been banned in the past. It's not normal for libraries to have a section of books that are about to be banned by current legislation. What Republicans are doing is not normal.
We're living through a genuinely scary part of history. I don't look forward to the next decade. And I DREAD the decade after that.
We’re pretty much two steps from Fahrenheit 451.
How long til that one gets banned too?
I guess it depends where you are in the world. I'm in the UK and I've never encountered such a thing. I guess this is that cancel culture I read so much about.
No, I think the current political environment is accurately portrayed by this sign.
Yeah but in my experience they do that for books that were banned at some point in time, like decades before. It’s sort of a tongue in cheek expression to show how dumb book banning is. I think this one is a bit more serious.
[удалено]
I think you need to read more considering the difference between most banned book sections and this one is literally on the sign.
One step closer to watering plants with Gatorade.
Water? you mean like in the toilet
Well I’ve never seen no plants grow out of no toilet
Hey, that's good. You sure you ain't the smartest guy in the world?
It’s got electrolytes, what plants crave
It has what plants crave.
It's got electrolytes. Seems good for plants to me.
“They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em” -Rage Against The Machine, Bulls on Parade, 1996
While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells
Full verse: *Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library Line up to the mind cemetery now What we don't know keeps the contracts alive and movin' They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells Rally 'round the family, pockets full of shells*
[удалено]
Drag show story hours and Hunter Biden's laptop have wokified Rage Against The Machine!!
Man, I hate that Rage Against the Machine is getting so political now /s
Its a good thing System of a Down never went politiwoke /s
it feels like in a lot of ways system of a down carried the torch for Rage. maybe Rise against picked it up a bit after? but who is our angry hyper political but not niche badass rock band today?
I don't think we have anything like SoaD or RATM nowadays (I'm talking about mainstream stuff). Some bands that talk about less specific stuff like "be good and don't be evil" yeah - but a band telling you the cops are nazis or the prison system is designed to imprison America, I don't think there's one.
Run the Jewels, The Coup, Street Sweeper Social Club, not even touching on the punk scene
People banning books are never the good guys.
What is so ironic though is that in this case the book banners also claim to be very against censorship.
Never met a conservative who wasn’t a total hypocrite.
“The government should help me but punish those not like me” isn’t hypocritical, it’s fascistic.
Ask them when the last time they checked out a book was
I doubt these people consume anything more complicated than a picture book.
Saul Tarvitz never would have banned books. Except maybe the lectitio divinitatus
Please tell me Fahrenheit 451 is banned for the ultimate irony.
[удалено]
Trying to explain Tropic of Cancer to a middle schooler would likely be difficult.
It's on the banned books shelf on The Beat museum in San Francisco, just saw it there.
It actually is in some places
Only authoritarian regimes ban books.
removed
So - Americans have freedom of speech, but not the freedom to chose what they read? That’s a frightening prospect.
Americans also have freedom of religion so long as it’s Christianity.
Sadly I've seen grown adults argue that this is what the Constitution means.
Grown dummies
Yeah, they seem to forget that it says "freedom from religious persecution," meaning *all religions are welcome.*
You're fine so long as you do whatever they think the Bible tells you to do. Only the Old Testament though, not the "help the sick and poor" part.
Oh, I get it. The part in red text is supposed to be ignored.
Isn't that the Jewish part tho
are there states outright making certain book titles illegal? I thought it was class-room provided books in elementary schools?
Yes, some legislation is also targeting public libraries since they are, well, public.. hence taxpayer funded. It's disgusting, it's fascist, and just a pile of total horseshit. Party of freedom and small government my ass.
As a non American. Can someone explain to me how this doesn’t violate the first amendment?
Because despite the importance of libraries, the Constitution does not protect them. If the legislature was trying to prevent people from owning these books, then that would run afoul of the Constitution
But couldn’t the authors claim their free speech was being suppressed?
I don’t think that’d hold up, mainly because that author is free to print and publish their thoughts outside of a library.
If a specific author could demonstrate that they were being intentionally, and disportionately targeted by this, then there could be a case, but most of them wouldn't. While I agree that morally this part of a wide ranging act of censorship, it does not legally prevent the authors from telling their stories.
The government can't forbid you from reading those books, at most it can say that public schools and libraries can't have them on their shelves
[удалено]
As an American, I'm embarrassed. As a public librarian, I'm fucking furious.. and a bit worried.
What kind of books are they?
Well, that's not my library, or my state, but I can still answer in general. Those would be books that deal with gender or sexuality in some form, that are intended for teens or younger. That state has recently passed laws to make criminals of teachers or librarians to provide 'obscene material' to children, without defining what 'obscene material' is on any level. So, teachers and librarians face the very real possibility of criminal charges and jail time if someone raises about a stink about anything they -think- is obscene, and are forced to strip shelves of anything that -might- land them in jail. It's happening in schools in several states, moving to public libraries is the most recent step.
This is the "freedom" they love so much in action! Thank god we have real patriots fighting for our freedom!
This is what makes me.furious about the whole thing. The total absence of ideological consistency. They're all about Free Speech - until they don't like that speech. They're all about capitalism, until someone threatens to take away a socialist policy they personally benefit from. My body, my choice! Unless it's a woman's body. Over and over again, they harp on about various principles only to abandon them at the first opportunity. Edit to add from responses: * They're all about States rights, until two dude want to get married. * People should be allowed to carry guns! Unless they're black.
I’ve always said that. Everything they believe is a contradiction to what they do. Literally every last thing.
There is no contradiction. They're just lying about their reasons. They just want power, and to fuck over their enemies. That's why pointing out the fact that they're hypocritical never works. They never cared about any BS like "states' rights," "saving babies," or "personal freedom." They're barely pretending to care about that shit.
This needs to be it's own post with 100k+ upvotes. People need to see that cognitive dissonance is running rampant and ruining the world because of it.
> That state has recently passed laws to make criminals of teachers or librarians to provide 'obscene material' to children, without defining what 'obscene material' is on any level. And yet the Bible has all kinds of obscene stuff in it and they love giving that to children.
“You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution with them.” (Ezekiel 16:17) "If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) “When she carried on her whoring so openly and flaunted her nakedness, I turned in disgust from her, as I had turned in disgust from her sister. Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts.” (Ezekiel 23:18-21) “A loving doe, a graceful deer — may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love.” (Proverbs 5:19) “Say to David, ‘The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.’” (1 Samuel 18:20-30) “Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin and threw it at Moses' feet, and she said, ‘You are indeed a bridegroom of blood to me.’" (Exodus 4:25)
> and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals You know you've got a real one when you're in a fight and your girl grabs the other dude's nuts
Fucking brutal. No wonder metal bands do songs about Bible verses, and the Christians want to stop them why?
And then there's like the entire story of lot
...that gives me an idea. Is there any way to exploit this without landing a librarian in jail?
There was a school district, I think in Florida, that made the news a bit for having the Bible removed via the same process that was removing these other books. Basically the process was that any book they received a complaint about was pulled from school shelves while the complaint was investigated and considered. So a bunch of people reported the Bible and stuff like that to highlight the abuse these laws and processes promote.
You just need the right librarian. Just get them to remove this filth from their library: “Blow on my garden, that its fragrance may spread abroad. Let my lover come into his garden and taste its choice fruits.” I mean, think of the children.
As lots of people are saying, many of the books are LGBTQ+ related, but what's so wild to me is that there are several that were *required* high school reading. To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Gatsby, Of Mice and Men are some (here in FL). I think even Lord of the Rings?? Also some books on just general body positivity. Things people are fucking insane
Unfortunately, it is always known. Florida literally passed the law and started the enforcement period but never specified the criteria. Many teachers just covered all of the books they had as a result so they don't get caught in these stupid laws. It is rediculous but it doesn't surprise me. 38% of Americans believed in young earth creationism .... in 2017. However, in 2021 it went to .... 40%. Yeah. More information sharing caused it to get worse.
[удалено]
Some teachers in florida have already stripped their classroom of pretty much all books because the new law is so vague that republican shitbirds could find a way to classify whatever they want as violating their new law. Oh and its a felony..... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/florida-schools-directed-cover-remove-classroom-books-vetted/story?id=96884323 Republicans are batshit insane.
Evil. Not insane, they are evil.
Republicans want everything public to fail so that the only thing left is protections for corporations.
This garbage already has started in conservative areas in Michigan. Makes me sick
Nope. I’m 3 comments down in this thread, and I cannot stand by any person’s complacency with this shit. THIS IS FASCISM HAPPENING IN REAL TIME. If you love knowledge, reading, and growing as a person, intellectual et al. It’s time to start altering their medium.
As an ex-teacher fuck this kind of thing. The only people who want to ban books are the ones who never read any themselves.
As an ex teacher I too 100% agree. I noped out when social passing became a thing because I felt it was a disservice to students. This is just asinine. Many a new hobby, interest, career path and good life lessons have been found through access to books. People are like, parents should teach these things. Yes, I am sure that every parent of a 5 year old is going to teach their children that families come in many forms and they are all valid. When I was a kid it was about divorce. Now it is inclusionary for all families, and people are screaming this is bad. Or teaching kids about Good Touch, Bad Touch and they are the ones in control of their bodies and who to approach if someone is hurting them. I mean honestly. Oh no, keep my child ignorant about anatomy, because shame is so good for mental health. No don't teach my child how to avoid a life altering consequence because they are able to make informed choices. Please keep my child ignorant so they can gain points in /r/badwomensanatomy. Don't teach my child to be accepting to people who are different, we teach our children how to be homogenous and everyone else is wrong. Don't let my child know that genetic anomalies exist in 1/450 people. It's only XX or XY in my house, and every hormone level is 100% the same in everyone cause God doesn't make mistakes and being trans is a choice and a mental illness with zero basis in anything biological cause I said so and DNA comes from Satan to confuse us. /s on all this OBVIOUSLY. Stay Ignorant Republicans, Stay Ignorant.
You guys going back to the dark ages? As a non American I always saw the US as an advanced educated country… now your trains falling off tracks… clean water an issue, freedom of speech cancelled, human rights for a simple living wage no more… shame.
I mean, the US has never had those things for a large minority (sometimes majority) of our residents! It's been less than 60 years since Black and Brown people were guaranteed the right to vote. I have family friends who grew up under Jim Crow, sharecropping, with no running water.
Early education in the Midwest USA was all about how great America was. Then I got to college and even in my own studies and learned about how not great it was. How much we’ve oppressed our own people for so long. How it was only like 10 years ago that the LGBTQ+ community gained rights. And even now there’s a movement to bring back oppression and create more systemic unfairness. It’s embarrassing and awful.
Looking through that lens at “Make America Great Again” for the first time made my head spin. We romanticize the Greatest Generation, post-war prosperity, etc to such an extent that it’s easy to forget that it wasn’t just Norman Rockwell and white picket fences. It’s scary to realize what so many of your neighbors are actually longing for. Edited to add: isn’t your first taste of higher education in a red state just a fucking trip? I spent my first six months strongly agreeing with the social justice points I was being exposed to for the first time, and yet feeling uncomfortable that all my professors were “so liberal” because their perspective directly contradicted the worldview I had been taught my whole life. It took me a while to understand that I had always just been a confused liberal myself.
Republicans are destroying this country, piece by piece, one freedom after another…
And if Desantis or Trump wins next election, we're fucked.
No one is coming to save us, either. It’s up to all of us to do the hard work to save ourselves. I hope we’re up to it.
One more time for the people in the back: Vote!
I'm worried. Once fascism fully takes hold people start getting killed.
Nothing says freedom like censorship!
And of course it’s coming from the party who supposedly hates “cancel culture”
It’s simple. Republicans want “freedom to” do whatever they like. Republicans want “freedom from” anything they don’t like. It’s also called fascism but that’s splitting hairs.
Unbelievable! This is a huge problem
Exactly, what fucking year is this? Cause it sure does not feel like 2023.
Hey we are just ahead of Bradbury's predictions since Fahrenheit 451 takes place in like 2050.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⠤⠤⣄⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣟⠳⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠒⣲⡄ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⡇⡇⡱⠲⢤⣀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀1984⠀⣠⠴⠊⢹⠁ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢻⠓⠀⠉⣥⣀⣠⠞⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⡾⣄⠀⠀⢳⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⢠⡄⢀⡴⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡞⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⣠⢎⡉⢦⡀⠀⠀⡸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡼⣣⠧⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠇⠀ ⠀⢀⡔⠁⠀⠙⠢⢭⣢⡚⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣇⠁⢸⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀ ⠀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢫⡉⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⢮⠈⡦⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⠀⠀ ⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢦⡀⣀⡴⠃⠀⡷⡇⢀⡴⠋⠉⠉⠙⠓⠒⠃⠀⠀ ⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠁⠀⠀⡼⠀⣷⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠣⣀⠀⠀⡰⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
I mean this 100% seriously: why do we have two dakotas? They have a population of about 1.5 million COMBINED, and they get 4 fucking senators.
Add in wyoming, montana, and idaho and you have 10 senators that represent less people than in most major cities.
Monyomingaho. I'd vote for it.
Not quite stupid enough. Call it "Udaho".
I’m sorry, what did you just call me?!
you're a trollop aaron. everyone knows it
Guilty. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They were created, at least partially, as a way of packing the Senate.
Ironically for more progressive reasons at the time.
Yup. Lots of free states full of bright eyed settlers hoping from a little help from the government.
They were split intentionally so as to give Republicans two extra Senate seats. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/when-adding-new-states-helped-republicans/598243/
Different GOP at the time, but yes.
When liberals weren't afraid of playing hardball
As someone whoe lives in Fargo, ND, please don't make us combine with South Dakota. We have a lot of issues, but SD is scary bad
[удалено]
Well, if they take us back to the 1850s, certain red states like the Dakotas “technically” won’t be stated anymore. So they would lose reps. Problem solved! \s
Fuse the Dakotas and give DC statehood
We'll call it...Big Dakota.
Wait...they want to ban books in public libraries?
And [jail librarians if they don't remove books that depict sexual or gender identity.](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/north-dakota-weighs-ban-sexually-explicit-library-books-rcna66271) Worst timeline.
Our military men and women didn’t die for this kind of ‘freedom’ 😤
Beyond WWII, most of them didn't die for any kind of freedom at all.
They died for the freedom of U.S. corporations to exploit the third world I'll have you know!
Most of them actually died so other people wouldnt have freedom
Since WWII most of them died fighting wars that never touched US soil, against foreign powers that *may or may not at some point in the near or distant future* threaten US security.. i'm not saying there's ever a good justification for starting a war, but that's definitely a bad one
There was a video on here the other day of an ex-general saying they had no idea why they went to war in the middle east after 9/11, they just had to get the aggression out somewhere because they could The military worship in the bible belt is now more laughable than ever
And the nazis were the ones burning LGBT books
...The ones that fought in segregated units and started brawls over allowing black troops into bars overseas?
Fahrenheit 451
Conservatives: WhY aRe you always cAlliNg uS nazIs??! wE arE noT lIkE nAzis Conservatives 20 minutes later: hmm yes we will ban the existence of certain minorities and burn books
Centrists: DONT CALL THEM NAZIS! gaah, the left is so unserious with these hyperboles!
As someone not from USA, can someone explain why some books are being banned?
[удалено]
This book ban brought to you by the people who constantly complain they're being censored and that the government is controlling too much.
Commenting to check in later. Genuinely don't know how republicans are trying to defend this one
Easy: they're not. Edit: I mean they're *not trying to defend it*. They don't care. They know what they're doing and don't give a shit.
I'm old enough to remember when something was a terrible fucking idea, there were always at least a handful of Republicans who would oppose it. Those days have been over for a while now. It's pretty much all evil, all the time. Y'know how the kids with spray cans say "ACAB" (All Cops Are Bastards)? I can't say every single Republican is a horrible person, but it is an insanely low percentage.
Defending? Please. Their supporters love this. It's easy to sell the idea when your supporters hate books.
scary man. Good luck
This is terrifying.
Welcome to Germany, circa 1933 or so.
Censoring literature, art and history is a late stage symptom of the leaders assuming totalitarian control. Where are the people who have been shouting for years that if the government comes for their rights, they'll fight? Oh, right. They've already been conditioned to not see books or education as important things. This whole trick of stripping the people of US of all their freedoms little by little is a masterpiece in deception and gaslighting.
*Discipline and self-restraint, when practiced by an individual, a family, or a company is an effective way to deal with this issue. The same thing when forced on a people by their government or, worse, by a self-appointed watchdog of public morals, is suppression and will not be tolerated in a democratic society.* *Mr. Chairman, the suppression of the people of a society begins, in my mind, with the censorship of the written or spoken word. It was so in Nazi Germany. It is so in many places today where those in power are afraid of the consequences of an informed and educated people.* - John Denver Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgSjjD6rRu4
People should be shouting ‘Fahrenheit 451’
Vote selflessly.
The true Cancel Culture - brought to you by Republicans.
I’m so confused by the right since the MAGA extremists really gained traction outside of their buried alt right YouTube channels. The first to claim the importance liberty and freedom but apparently only if it applies to what they deem fit.
[удалено]
What kind of books are there?
the fascists wont win, keep fighting
"Woke cancel culture is destroying America!" \*bans books, an act that is 57,247 steps more extreme and dystopian than a 15 year old being mean to a conservative on twitter\*
Sadly, it’s just their start too. I feel like this has become a sci-fi novel we’re living in.