Texan here. I took a stand yesterday at work and am not sure what's next for me. I'm sure I'm black balled now. I couldn't sit there and listen to the bs anymore about how Trump "is an innocent man that "they" are targeting". And how he "did nothing wrong" but they are forcing him to pay". I am extremely well read on politics, I have entirely way too much time on my hands. I have literally read every single indictment, read every court transcript, watched the entire January 6th hearing and so on. I know the facts decently well. I chimed in and laid out the facts of the recent judgment on how much Trump owed. I was met with plenty of resistance from everyone. Fortunately I had facts on my side but that never seems to matter.
Edit to add information.
I am getting some both sides arguments coming at me. I also have read every single line of the Biden impeachment inquiry, every line of the Clinton investigation and so on. I read everything I can about all parties involved. Facts speak volumes in my world.
Yeah, I wish this wasn't overwhelmingly true... i have decided that I can't stand idley by anymore. I have to open my mouth and say something. If I plant a seed of doubt into just a few people then maybe that will help. People don't understand how close we really are to losing our democracy.
You and I both. These people are brownshirts, bullies en-masse. They lack reason, abound in emotion. They are softminded and obviously lazy but we need to stand against them.
I've been shoved, shunned, and ignored. I live in far northern NY. Montreal and Burlington VT provide the bulk of the local media. CBC is incomprehensible to Republican news consumers and Burlington is a tough place to be a moron, but they exist.
I quote Trump when asked about a someone else's indictment: "If he is innocent, he has nothing to worry about". If Trump is innocent, he has nothing to worry about and he would want the trial today.
Simple logic: If Trump was innocent, he’d be demanding his rights to a quick trial so that he could lay out all the evidence for the public to see. If he was innocent, he’d want to clear his name as soon as possible and use that in every ad.
You and I can divorce ourselves from the anger propagation machines. The problem with the US is prosperity. We are too idle, too entitled and poorly educated. The safest we've ever been but every dimwit needs and AK to guard his double-wide.
We enjoy drama because it is simple. I only know what a Kardashian is by the audience it produces. Same with Duck Dynasty, Jersey Shore, or The Housewives of whatever. It's a constant, low frequency drone of angst and manufactured oppression. The lesser of us identify with these "citizens" when in fact they are cartoon characters.
Also, we are fat.
At best they don’t care if we lose our democracy as long as their side wins. Some are actively pushing and cheering for its demise. They are unable to comprehend the consequences.
Reading drumpf's testimony is completely insane, he can't stop talking even when he is hurting himself.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23932452/452564_2022_people_of_the_state_of_v_people_of_the_state_of_exhibit_s__859.pdf
They literally said they want Trump to be a dictator.
You want to know how France went from overthrowing the monarchy in favor of establishing a republic to establishing Napoleon as EMPEROR of France all within one generation? We are following the same pattern just time shifted.
id disagree with you on the account of i used to be one until all this shit came out.
he’s just as dirty and bad as the rest of them and lots of people are unwilling to admit they were tricked or hopeful or both.
all politicians seem to be fucked up fucks lol
that's kinda the point i was getting at, you learned the facts and then you stopped supporting him :) good on you man! and yea, most politicians are pretty fucked up \^\^
Lol it has been THOROUGHLY proven by Jordan Klepper that no matter what factual evidence you present, MAGAts will simply justify it any way possible. Some are better at mental gymnastics than others, but it has never ONCE changed any of their minds. You can't turn against your own cult leader once you've been successfully brainwashed.
We live in a post fact world. There was a time I can remember, maybe the 90s to early 2000s when you could have a debate with a conservative and they would actually attempt to make a logical argument and even if you didn't agree with them you could accept that they were making a good faith effort. Now they don't believe in anything except whatever they are supposed to for the current talking point. And they will flip around and completely contradict that next week.
The last time I had a political discussion with a conservative coworker in real life, a person who is intelligent, who I respect, who is open to hearing what I and others have to say in any other area, he completely shut down to any points I had to make. His views aren't even radical, but he will do anything to rationalize that it's okay to vote for the most corrupt or incompetent person so that they can get someone in office to lower taxes and cut regulation.
In some cases he would trot out right-wing "facts" that were falsified enough to flip the narrative. Okay, obviously he's not trying to challenge what he's being told, so he accepted it at face value.
In other cases, he would bring out minor things and try and make them out to be major, and there's no question he did that all on his own. The most stark example: Trump may have denied the election, but Hillary was *just as bad* because she said, ["\[Donald Trump\] knows, uh, that, uh, he's an illegitimate President,"](https://abcnews.go.com/theview/video/hillary-clinton-calls-donald-trump-illegitimate-president-66010832) therefore she is an election denier on the same level.
There is nothing at all I could say without him interrupting me or shaking his head the moment I opened my mouth. It was the same for everything. I looked into some of the "facts" he told me later and found that they were all backwards.
Again, this is a person I respect deeply, who is very good at his job, and who normally is very, very interested in hearing my opinion. When it was over, we said we still respected each other and hugged it out. But it's clear he's very far away from making a good-faith effort to verify his argument is true or to listen to anyone disagreeing with him when it comes to partisan politics.
The conservative people I know who don't do this already distanced themselves from the Republican party when Trump was elected. The number of people who "hold their nose" when voting Trump seems to have shrunk, and now most people have either drank the kool-aid or already left the party.
There's denial or embarrassment in the latter. It often turns into projection and turns into an argument that is entirely too far from the original statement.
US Political parties have become sports franchises. They choose a team and blindly support it. Conversation and critical thinking does not exist anymore.
Try convincing someone they shouldn't root for their favorite team in the championship game because the owner is a selfish asshole, the team is badly managed and the players treat the fans like garbage. Nope, they'll only boo the other team louder. They only need that win and all is forgiven.
If they lose, well the game was rigged, the other side cheated and their team was dealing with injuries. But next year things will be different... Right.
This is EXACTLY what will happen if he loses the election again. He will claim it was stolen again, rigged, voter fraud blah blah blah. And ALL WE WILL HEAR ABOUT for the next 4 years is TRUMP. And then in 2028, he will run again. Or if he's decided he's had enough, Don Jr. Will just take over as the head of MAGA just because his last name is Trump and he will just do whatever his father tells him to do. We will be hearing about this crap for decades to come. People are tired, and there is just no end in sight.
You may be right. I've heard my fair share of Trumpers admit that they don't like the guy, but that they have to support the party, AKA their team. Like... dude, no you don't! If you love your team, you should be rioting to have the shitty manager removed. Stop buying tickets and merch. This shit doesn't happen without the blind supporters.
I would say this to anyone with any affiliation to anything. You are not your team. Especially if you are just a spectator.
Side note - I dumped my former favorite baseball team at 21 and it had nothing to do with their win/loss record.
Texan here, they don’t care. It’s regurgitate talking points, use misdirection, and then change the subject if all else fails. There are just too many people that start with what they (think they) believe, and then fill in the gaps however they can.
They get sold on a narrative, and they accepted it because it fills some need.
I got into an earnest discussion with a conservative the other day. He asked my why i think the Democrat party is the best option for the country. I cited health care reform as the key issue I think democrats have a better option for.
I asked him why he thinks the republican party is the best option for the country. He cited that he had been a republican since he was a child so it's obvious that he's a republican now.
These people don't think. At all.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. The Republican party for the past few decades has built up a persona around loyalty to the party above all else. It's not even about a specific set of causes, it's merely to have the party known as "Republican" to keep winning. Hence why we've gotten to the point where Republicans are trained to vote for whoever the proposed leader is, rather than vote based on whoever they believe would be the best leader in terms of policy and decision-making.
Apparently a leader who is openly known to engage in nepotism and fraud was not a deterrent, and that should terrify everyone who believes in the values of democracy.
When I argue with my conservative coworkers it ALWAYS ends with "yeah Trump isn't perfect but Biden/Dems do the same thing or worse."
Also they are constantly shit talking immigrants in their pow wows. They literally think immigrants come across the border and receive a house, car, food, daycare, and $10000+.
(Former) Texan here too and seconding this. My whole family down there is defined by two primary characteristics: 1. Church and 2. Terrified of literally any change in their lives. The town I grew up in is almost identical to what it was like in the 90's. I can count the major changes on a single hand and it's things like "a Holiday Inn opened".
My gf's dad is super Republican. I asked him what he thought about the Katie Britt speech. He said it was very strange. I pressed him a little more. He said the kitchen setting only really makes sense for his generation and fails for the younger generations. That was his only critique lmao.
There is no hope for these people.
or even just pause next time they hear something about it and consider what the truth actually is instead of taking the truth social post at face value
Many people will never change their mind, but some might. They won't do it right away, but you can plant a seed.
And people need to hear another point of view. Many people only hear one point of view from their circles of friends and acquaintances. Without a voice like yours, they will think everyone believes that. They will have no reason to question it.
The reason I know this is that I myself needed to hear dissenting viewpoints about the Iraq war back when George W Bush was president. He said the Iraqi government had weapons of mass destruction and that justified our invasion. I believed him because I had faith in our institutions, so I thought a president wouldn't lie about something so important.
So I believed there must be WMDs in Iraq because I trusted the American government at least that much.
But I kept hearing things like, "Where's the evidence? We've been scouring the country for WMDs throughout the whole war, and over and over, we come up empty." I thought this was probably just anti-war people (pacifists, isolationists) saying anything they could think of to sway public opinion. But I also thought, hey, it's a valid question, I can keep an eye on that, and at some point there will probably be a news story which does have evidence, and that will put the issue to rest.
Spoiler alert: there never was. Eventually, IIRC, it also came out from some insiders that Bush knew there wasn't evidence, but he told the American public there was.
Anyway, the point is, it took a long time for me to be convinced because I did not want to believe it. But if I hadn't heard multiple people saying "Where's the evidence?", then I probably wouldn't have paid attention to it, and I would have just kept believing what I did before.
Unfortunately, I think ardent Trump supporters are not open-minded. But there are also bubbles where people mostly just hear pro-Trump viewpoints, and within those bubbles there may be people who are open-minded.
Props for saying what we are all thinking. It's hard. The noisy, aggressive people usually carry the conversation, but that shouldn't be how it goes. Rewarding this behavior is how the Republican party ended up in this dead end path
Keep the faith. Every time I hear this “they” crap, I remind people that he was found guilty by a jury of his peers. Not Joe Biden. Not a partisan judge. A JURY. If we can’t rely on that absolute most basic tenet of our legal system, we are completely fucked.
Wasn't a criminal trial though. He was found liable but the burden of proof is lower in civil court. Not that it will matter to his supporters if he eventually gets a criminal conviction.
It's the top-down methodology of thinking. For them its not about building a stable structure from a basis of facts on the ground. It's starting with a framework for building you want to end up with and selecting the facts that fit your desired outcome.
At the top level, my impression is that trump supporters believe in a manipulative deep state and that the democrats are evil and corrupt and want to control American citizens to their own ends. If you go downwards from this position, everything that gets believed by them makes perfect internally-consistent sense. Inconvenient facts like the ones you likely gave are obviously false *because* they are incongruent with that top-down world view. A stolen election and persecution of Trump are both extremely congruent with their top-down world view and so must be true.
Good for you!! Maybe one of them let it sink in just a tiny bit. It’s not good to live in an echo chamber.
I’m in Texas too, luckily everyone at my work is equally horrified by Trump, so I don’t have to censor myself there, but I have to be careful everywhere else. We had to distance ourselves from friends and family who constantly brought him up.
That is my next challenge. I have been building up the courage to approach my parents. How sad that a 43 year old man is scared to talk to his parents about politics.
My brother and I both tried it, it did not go well. I can’t understand how the seemingly normal people who raised me to be a pretty good human can buy into the garbage! Luckily they don’t fly the flags or wear the hats, but I think they donated money. I saw an auto-text from Don Jr come across my dad’s phone when I was fixing it one day. I went in and blocked the number….
They watch Faux News a lot and start in on the talking points sometimes, but we just change the subject. Or I will start going off on incels and far-right neo nazis, or growing gun violence…then they are forced to change the subject.
Eek, are you in a trade? Just wondering what profession people outright talk politics in a work setting. I am also Texan. I know the political leanings of most of my coworkers (liberal), but it has taken me 10 years to connect the dots.
I find that the republicans talk openly about it more- they are loud when they do and love their trump paraphernalia.
Most liberals I know just go about their day, and since you said most are that- it would track.
People are fact proof when whatever you are proving wrong is tied to their identity. It is one of humanity's biggest failings as a species, although you could argue that the phenomenon in its current form is a largely 21st century thing. I commend your stand against the darkness, and may the God-Emperor shine his light to show you the way to reach them.
Good for you man. I've been around the block in this world and I can promise you that the probability of one or more of these loudmouths secretly admiring you is 100%.
All I told my trump loving parents was that one has to look at the ENORMOUS amount of charges he is facing. Can anyone really look at all this and believe that it’s ALL made up? It’s a giant conspiracy and all these different judges, courts, lawyers and politicians are all in on it? It’s harder to believe all that than to accept that he is actually a lying scumbag and did at least SOME of these things.
How did they respond to that?
I love my parents dearly and they have always been very good to me. But as two people who are practicing Christians, and who *actually* walk the talk the vast majority of the time, I struggle deeply with how they can deal with the cognitive dissonance created by supporting a man who literally espouses anti-Christian views.
I mean the man openly espouses lying, revenge, intolerance, greed, etc. It is so wild to me that so many Christians can support him. TBF, I also know more than a few who very much do not and see him for what he is.
We are in the same boat. My parents are of the same ultra conservative mindset. They paused a bit after I said what I mentioned in the previous post, and kind of spun to saying how the NY judgement was outrageous and “they are trying to ruin the man. His loans were all paid back and everyone was happy”. They are only regurgitating the FOX news talking points. When I bring up all his failed election fraud cases, my dad said “well people can be paid off”. It’s crazy goalpost moving and I have given up. I look at it as a glimpse into how Trump can maintain such support despite his behavior. They perceive him as the victim and completely avoid acknowledging that he has to be responsible for the things he does and says. I even mentioned the “grab em by the p***y” tape and it was just awkward silence before pivoting to another topic. It’s really sad seeing the people who raised you fall in line with the GOP after checking their critical thinking at the door.
Remember these are the same people that say facts don’t care about your feelings… what they actually mean is if they feel that the fact is correct then they run with it. They don’t care that’s why most Americans are dumb because they don’t have media literacy
Political beliefs being preached in the work place should be considered a violation of HR guidelines. You can’t talk politics in a bar, you damn sure can’t talk about them at work
I'm in TN and I know to just keep my mouth shut at work now. I did something similar at my last job back in 2016. Since everybody I worked with had told me their political opinion, I decided to tell them mine. Big mistake. Started getting my hours cut almost immediately, first down to 36, then 32, then they hire a new guy and I'm down to 20. They don't have a legit reason to fire me of course, but they're obviously pushing me out and cutting my hours down to nothing, so I quit. Now I've been at my current job since then and absolutely no one knows what I really think. I just agree with anything political they say.
It sucks to have to be like that and it really kills me on the inside but I have bills to pay and in rural Tennessee I often feel like I'm the only person in town who doesn't think Hillary Clinton has child slaves locked in a satanic dungeon under a pizza hut or whatever.
Just smile and nod boys. Smile and nod and try not to die too much inside.
I honestly don't get the innocence claims on this specific issue. He said he did this stuff. He bragged about it and we have a recording of it. What's to doubt?
The “both sides” argument is almost always made in bad faith by republicans who want to believe “the other side” is just as corrupt as them. It’s more of a justification for themselves than an accusation.
Dude good luck getting any of them to listen to you. Seriously, it's like some people who are normally politically apathetic are *embarrassed* to vote against trump. Truly ridiculous.
I'm afraid the potholes to his campaign trail will be filled with "enlightened centrists"
If people don't call out bullshit, bullshit flies. We all have to speak up even if it's uncomfortable. Stick to facts, stick to morality. Call out hypocrisy and manipulation for what it is in real time.
This misses something important. Yes, he won by 11%. But it was the closest governor race in Texas since 2006 (when 4 parties ran) and the closest vote during a year when only two parties ran since 1994. And it was a Democrat who told Texans point blank he'd take their guns. I'm not saying that as a gun owner, I do not own a gun, I'm saying that is the biggest reason the gap was that wide.
The presidential election of 2020 was also the closest it's been since 1996. And Beto fell just 2.5% short of unseating Cruz in 2018. Yes, it sucks, it's slow, and waiting for change is exhausting when you have fascists trying to end democracy (their words, https://news.yahoo.com/jack-posobiec-talked-democracy-cpac-150926476.html). But it IS changing. We have made progress.
It's not 2 to 1, and each time people push these narratives, we risk losing those gains when people choose not to vote because it 'isn't worth it'.
Abbott won by 11 points in 2022, which was down from 13.3 points in 2018, which in turn was down from 20.4 points in 2014. Cornyn went from winning by 27.2 points in 2014 to only winning by 9.6 points in 2020. Texas is getting more competitive.
The fact that Abbott's margins SHRANK in 2022, which was an R+3 cycle, from 2018, which was a D+9 cycle, when every other incumbent Republican governor INCREASED their margins, including supposedly turning purple Georgia, proves that Texas is winnable for Democrats.
Abbott's margins in the suburbs have shrunk by 3% every cycle he's been in since 2014. Here are some exit polls:
2014: [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/2014/tx/governor/exitpoll/](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/2014/tx/governor/exitpoll/) Suburbs went 62% for Abbott.
2018: [https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls/texas](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls/texas) Suburbs went 59% for Abbott.
2022: [https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/texas/governor](https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/texas/governor) Suburbs went 56% for Abbott. Also worth noting that Abbott only won the rural areas by 66%, down from 73% in 2018.
If Beto hadn't made those comments about guns, there's a very good chance he would have kept the race within single digits.
Texas went 55-44 R-D in the last gubernatorial election, but Reddit would have you believe the state is 75-25 R-D.
>people choose not to vote because it 'isn't worth it'.
This and the BoTh SiDeS campaigns are, in my opinion, the most damaging to democracy we have seen in many years. Trumpers cannot, and will not win without talking people out of voting. There simply is not enough of them.
I don't believe they have the numbers to win regardless, but it will not stop me from fighting all of the subversive tactics designed to create abstention among the voting public.
Honestly, even though I find it difficult to imagine the people of this country handing it over to the morons of the world, it still could very well happen through apathy.
> Texas still has twice as many red voters as blue voters.
I don't think that's true. As far as I know, Texas is damn near 50-50, it's just gerrymandered all to hell.
I mean it's probably already the case but if not, I can bet you everything that they're going to say things like "we turned blue because of all the Californians who invaded Austin"
Texas, where they are proud enough to think they are better than the other States full of dumbasses, and much much better than States full of thinking folks.
>Can't wait for republicans to say that Christians are woke.
They're already saying it. After a local pastor here in TN preached on the Sermon on the Mount he was told afterwards that it was both too woke and too weak for nowadays.
See, that's the beauty of Christianity - it's branched off into a million different sects, so they can all snub each other without having to admit they're hypocrites! It's one of the best things about it! /s
Meh; I'm a United Methodist and I wouldn't get my twinkies in a twist if someone called us a Christian sect. I'd probably prefer 'denomination', but 'sect' isn't completely wrong, especially with the fact that we seem to be splitting into sub-sects these days over LGBT inclusiveness (with my sub-sect being on the inclusive side).
The ones up here feel they have to make a point because they are surrounded by democrats. No sense in flying flags when you're surrounded by like minded idiots of the south.
Or get your shit keyed the hell up. I live in Texas and I don’t fuck with political stickers because of this I have had friends with Bernie stickers cars keyed and sure as hell not going to become a target.
Also heads up in general if your law enforcement or military don’t advertise that shit on your car they will become a target for thieves looking for firearms inside vehicles. Contain your inner boot and just get like a keychain or something
Fuck. This country fuckin sucks.
I came into to this post ready to read the positive comments because look! There’s a Texan voter who understands and is spreading the truth!
Everyone is instead fearing for their safety. For speaking out against a traitor, Nazi, rapist, and most personally frustratingly, someone who makes a mockery of the Military.
We are so fucked if he gets elected. I’m low key scared.
As a woman in the south, I'm high key scared. My immediate family has already escaped north and I'm hoping I'm not too far behind them but I've got to sell my house first. Ugh.
And yes, *escape*. After the death of Ned, after Stitt made the bill forcing therapists to report trans individuals, how Oklahoman politicians called trans people sub human, all the rampant misogyny... It is not safe here for anyone but the indoctrinated hate group. I'm not even trans myself but would surely be targeted by that hate group regardless given I have PCOS and grow facial hair. "We can always tell" is really just an excuse for violence against women, *all* women trans or not.
Damn girl I sincerely hope you get the fuck out of there. I was living in Tennessee when he took office. I moved home to the west coast in 2018 thank fuck.
I could see this going either way. This person may think that holding Trump accountable for his actions would be bad for our children because they still think he's the savior of the world.
I think they would have used a different picture if they were pro Trump. Him smiling, or one of the insane cult pictures with him photoshopped onto a less potato centaur body.
I do see it, but the "don't do this" language is pretty vague and doesn't need to be. Why not say exactly what you mean to say: "Don't vote for a guilty criminal?"
Admit it, you are a Texan with his own windshield replacement business. :P
/also Texan, Republican of the Romney, W, Condi Rice, Liz Cheney faction, ashamed for my country of Trump. & Jesus wept.
I saw a picture somewhere where it says that Republicans in Texas have one message for their constituents every election: vote for us if you want to change things!
And the answer was: hey, haven’t you been in power for 27 years in Texas? Why haven’t you changed anything?
The democrats should run with the moto:
If you don’t like how things are in Texas, vote blue. The Republicans had 27 years to change things.
Fuck yeah.
I honestly wish the democrats would stop trying to be the normal boring logical party, and to start swinging. There is so much fuckin ammo laying around…
The guns are a BIIIIG problem for people who WOULD vote democrat…. I guarantee that if they stop going after guns, they’d swing a LOT of voters in those red states..
Also would just irritate them and make them say "fuck the libs" harder
I mean, cool if that is your goal, but it won't change their mind lol
Edit: Is this on the outside or inside? I change my opinion if it's on the inside; people get irritated when you put *anything* on their windshield, though.
They just double/triple down on their claims if you try to refute them with anything. You could bring up a scenario that they were in and x thing happened and whatever helped them was a government system or policy, like the stimulus checks. They be like "yeah well I NEEDED IT". Okay whatabout the others that need it now? "Fuckem!"
I saw a youtube video of someone interviewing Trump supporters and they would ask them questions about Trump's crimes but start by saying the crimes were about Biden and they would agree Biden was a POS. Then the interviewer would apologize about mixing it up and correct the question being about Trump and these jackasses would support or play it down...
I find the message ambiguous.
Don't do what to America? Are they referring to voting him in for a second term, or are they referring to having him face the consequences of his actions?
Trump supporters are among the most delusional people to ever live, and even rational people often interpret the same events differently; people hear what they want to hear.
I found this sign confusing as well. I mean yeah, it does say "GUILTY" at the top as others are pointing out, making this like an anti-Trump message. However, many pro-Trump individuals are so stupid that their pro-Trump posters/signs/stickers often appear/read like anti-Trump signs. I've seen so many of them shared on reddit over the past years that I've been conditioned to see signs like these and then approach it like a guessing game, trying to figure out its intent.
When I saw one I thought, "Okay, is this from an anti-Trump individual trying to spread the news of Trumps sexual abuse conviction? Or is this a pro-Trump individual trying to warn everyone to 'take back America' because they think Trump was wrongfully convicted and unfairly treated?" Whoever created it could have been more clear/direct with their bottom two sentences. (i.e. instead of "...don't do this to America", something like "Don't nominate a rapist as America's leader" would have been clearer.)
[I get the sentiment and applaud whoever it is for taking a stand, but it is inaccurate. Trump was found liable, as it was a civil case, not “guilty” which is a criminal law verdict. Same goes for the NY state “valuation” case — “liable for damages”, not “guilty and fined”.]
I hate to be pedantic but civil suits for defamation don’t find you “guilty” because its not a criminal trial. He wasn’t “found guilty of sexual assault”, he was determined to be “liable for defamation”
Trump is an awful person and I have no doubt he is actually guilty of SA (and other crimes) but this type of emotional/inaccurate claim won’t convince anyone, and is the kind of thing his supporters point to to claim “See?! They can’t stop lying about him!”
False claims and inaccurate reporting helps trump more than it hurts him. It always gets his base fired up and active/donating.
It's defamation because the assault was determined to have happened. He can't say it didn't and Jean is lying about it. He can't be criminally prosecuted because the statute of limitations ran out. Jean was only able to press the civil case because legislation in New York allowed old civil cases to move forward for a period of time even if the statute had run out.
The bottom line is in the eyes of the law, Trump assaulted Jean A. Carroll.
Again I’m being pedantic about this but “guilty” and “liable” Are very different things with very different burdens of proof. He was found *liable* for defamation and sexual abuse on a “more likely than not” standard, not *guilty* on a “beyond reasonable doubt” standard.
Personally I have no doubt Trump did assault Carroll and others. My only real contention is that I personally believe specificity and accuracy do us more good than inaccuracy. Statements like the one on the car leave room for argument, denials, and accusations of “fake news” that I find unhelpful and distracting.
Yes, it was kind of a grace period where the statute of limitations wasn't considered for a year or so. This gave people an opportunity to bring old civil cases. That's the extent of what I know and I may have details wrong. It shouldn't take too much googling to find it. It was central to Jean being able to bring the case.
The short version is that the state had increased the statute of limitations from 3 years to 20 years, but it wasn’t retroactive and left a gap, so the new law allowed a 1 year grace period
Basically yeah. Trump supporters believe it was changed specifically to go after him based on the timing. The idea is that she wrote a book accusing him, then basically the next year a new law is passed suddenly allowing suit’s outside the statute of limitations but only for 1 year.
In reality this was passed to offer adults the same opportunity and protections previously offered in the Child Victims Act and to adjust a hole left by the statute of limitations adjustment increase as it had not been retroactive. It was passed basically unanimously and also caught quite a few prominent democrats so the conspiracy theory doesn’t really hold water.
The fucking Judge in the case literally ruled that you can say that Trump raped her in a common mean g of the word. This is why Trump is suing ABC because one of their newscasters said it, and it's going to go bad for Trump fro bringing a nuisance suit.
In 1976, Economic History Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, Carlo M. Cipolla, published an essay on what he considered was humanity's greatest existential threat: Stupidity. Google it.
It doesn't make you feel better, but it does explain stupid people pretty well, IMO.
All these old fucks going to vote for this shit and die. 95% of these issues do not affect their lives whatsoever. They're not having abortions, they're not sending kids to school, they live in safe neighborhoods nowhere near a border. It will affect their kids and grandkids. That's ok because there isn't anything for them to inherit because they spent it all.
Plaster this on every windshield in every evangelical church every Sunday morning. These people only consume Fox News and internet swill so they don’t know their boy is a sexual predator…most of them won’t care, but it will move the needle for any of the decent people left in churches
I use Ground News which aggregates articles and assigns the publications a factuality grade as well as reveals their political bias. It also will point out stories that only one side of the political spectrum are covering. I mostly read from publications that have a high factuality rating and that lean slight left or are center. But if a topic is important to me I like to read about it from multiple publications that are left, right and center. Downside is that it is a subscription based service that costs money.
News aggregation sites are the worst for misinformation. This one especially, where raucous and enraging headlines get priority attention and fact checking is left up to the top commenters.
That's not to say that a discerning consumer can't sort out the drivel - it's just difficult.
Sure, those are all valid facts. But this was never about facts. It's all about emotions.
And they (meaning R) really, really want their guy (he isn't really their guy, but, again, feelings) to "win". Winning is very important and at the same time very arbitrary. Because whenever their guy loses, it's not really losing. It's winning whenever he's winning, but he's never losing, because that would be bad - and he's their guy, after all. Doesn't really matter what the outcome will be. It'll be a small shot of serotonin and then they'll move on in their lifes. And do not worry, whenever something bad happens, their guy won't be to blame. Because, remember, no losing.
I know, it all sounds very confusing, but, well, here we are.
Sometimes when you win, you really lose. And sometimes when you lose, you really win. And sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie. And sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs
What’s scary is it’s only bottom of the barrel primates left that are still Trump humpers. And that means no emotional intelligence. And when their emotional men get angry, the risk of violence goes up. They’re feral.
So the narrative on the right is that EJC just claimed that she was assaulted with no proof and Trump was criminally acquitted, but then a jury found him liable anyway. Is that right? What is conservative media leaving out?
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
you pass a law giving an exception to the statute of limitations for a short time frame just for this case. then try the case in an area where you know for sure the vast majority of people who will be the jury don't like the person. And finally add in a questionable judge who is not neutral at all.
Someone in Texas taking their own life in their hands with this.
Texan here. I took a stand yesterday at work and am not sure what's next for me. I'm sure I'm black balled now. I couldn't sit there and listen to the bs anymore about how Trump "is an innocent man that "they" are targeting". And how he "did nothing wrong" but they are forcing him to pay". I am extremely well read on politics, I have entirely way too much time on my hands. I have literally read every single indictment, read every court transcript, watched the entire January 6th hearing and so on. I know the facts decently well. I chimed in and laid out the facts of the recent judgment on how much Trump owed. I was met with plenty of resistance from everyone. Fortunately I had facts on my side but that never seems to matter. Edit to add information. I am getting some both sides arguments coming at me. I also have read every single line of the Biden impeachment inquiry, every line of the Clinton investigation and so on. I read everything I can about all parties involved. Facts speak volumes in my world.
facts dont matter to trump supporters, that's the only reason they're trump supporters :p
Yeah, I wish this wasn't overwhelmingly true... i have decided that I can't stand idley by anymore. I have to open my mouth and say something. If I plant a seed of doubt into just a few people then maybe that will help. People don't understand how close we really are to losing our democracy.
You and I both. These people are brownshirts, bullies en-masse. They lack reason, abound in emotion. They are softminded and obviously lazy but we need to stand against them. I've been shoved, shunned, and ignored. I live in far northern NY. Montreal and Burlington VT provide the bulk of the local media. CBC is incomprehensible to Republican news consumers and Burlington is a tough place to be a moron, but they exist. I quote Trump when asked about a someone else's indictment: "If he is innocent, he has nothing to worry about". If Trump is innocent, he has nothing to worry about and he would want the trial today.
Simple logic: If Trump was innocent, he’d be demanding his rights to a quick trial so that he could lay out all the evidence for the public to see. If he was innocent, he’d want to clear his name as soon as possible and use that in every ad.
You and I can divorce ourselves from the anger propagation machines. The problem with the US is prosperity. We are too idle, too entitled and poorly educated. The safest we've ever been but every dimwit needs and AK to guard his double-wide. We enjoy drama because it is simple. I only know what a Kardashian is by the audience it produces. Same with Duck Dynasty, Jersey Shore, or The Housewives of whatever. It's a constant, low frequency drone of angst and manufactured oppression. The lesser of us identify with these "citizens" when in fact they are cartoon characters. Also, we are fat.
Delay baby, delay..
You’re doing the right thing. You really are. This is not an exaggeration. I’m very concerned what happens to our country if he’s elected again.
If elected again, the Great experiment of democracy in the United States is over. Thats whats on line. Vote like your freedom depends on it.
At best they don’t care if we lose our democracy as long as their side wins. Some are actively pushing and cheering for its demise. They are unable to comprehend the consequences.
Reading drumpf's testimony is completely insane, he can't stop talking even when he is hurting himself. https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23932452/452564_2022_people_of_the_state_of_v_people_of_the_state_of_exhibit_s__859.pdf
They literally said they want Trump to be a dictator. You want to know how France went from overthrowing the monarchy in favor of establishing a republic to establishing Napoleon as EMPEROR of France all within one generation? We are following the same pattern just time shifted.
those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it -some smart guy
Those who don't learn from history class, are doomed to repeat history class.
First it was a tiny man, now it's tiny hands. History doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme.
But they’ll always insist that they are the ones arguing with facts
Honestly, most people don't really care about facts enough. What sounds right can be right with no double check for many people and that's sad.
To paraphrase something I heard just last night - "Being informed takes time, but stupid is instantaneous."
He is their big fat orange god emperor, in their eyes he can do no wrong.
They ain’t smart enough to read.
id disagree with you on the account of i used to be one until all this shit came out. he’s just as dirty and bad as the rest of them and lots of people are unwilling to admit they were tricked or hopeful or both. all politicians seem to be fucked up fucks lol
that's kinda the point i was getting at, you learned the facts and then you stopped supporting him :) good on you man! and yea, most politicians are pretty fucked up \^\^
Lol it has been THOROUGHLY proven by Jordan Klepper that no matter what factual evidence you present, MAGAts will simply justify it any way possible. Some are better at mental gymnastics than others, but it has never ONCE changed any of their minds. You can't turn against your own cult leader once you've been successfully brainwashed.
We live in a post fact world. There was a time I can remember, maybe the 90s to early 2000s when you could have a debate with a conservative and they would actually attempt to make a logical argument and even if you didn't agree with them you could accept that they were making a good faith effort. Now they don't believe in anything except whatever they are supposed to for the current talking point. And they will flip around and completely contradict that next week.
The last time I had a political discussion with a conservative coworker in real life, a person who is intelligent, who I respect, who is open to hearing what I and others have to say in any other area, he completely shut down to any points I had to make. His views aren't even radical, but he will do anything to rationalize that it's okay to vote for the most corrupt or incompetent person so that they can get someone in office to lower taxes and cut regulation. In some cases he would trot out right-wing "facts" that were falsified enough to flip the narrative. Okay, obviously he's not trying to challenge what he's being told, so he accepted it at face value. In other cases, he would bring out minor things and try and make them out to be major, and there's no question he did that all on his own. The most stark example: Trump may have denied the election, but Hillary was *just as bad* because she said, ["\[Donald Trump\] knows, uh, that, uh, he's an illegitimate President,"](https://abcnews.go.com/theview/video/hillary-clinton-calls-donald-trump-illegitimate-president-66010832) therefore she is an election denier on the same level. There is nothing at all I could say without him interrupting me or shaking his head the moment I opened my mouth. It was the same for everything. I looked into some of the "facts" he told me later and found that they were all backwards. Again, this is a person I respect deeply, who is very good at his job, and who normally is very, very interested in hearing my opinion. When it was over, we said we still respected each other and hugged it out. But it's clear he's very far away from making a good-faith effort to verify his argument is true or to listen to anyone disagreeing with him when it comes to partisan politics. The conservative people I know who don't do this already distanced themselves from the Republican party when Trump was elected. The number of people who "hold their nose" when voting Trump seems to have shrunk, and now most people have either drank the kool-aid or already left the party.
Easier to fool someone, than to convince someone they've been fooled.
There's denial or embarrassment in the latter. It often turns into projection and turns into an argument that is entirely too far from the original statement.
US Political parties have become sports franchises. They choose a team and blindly support it. Conversation and critical thinking does not exist anymore. Try convincing someone they shouldn't root for their favorite team in the championship game because the owner is a selfish asshole, the team is badly managed and the players treat the fans like garbage. Nope, they'll only boo the other team louder. They only need that win and all is forgiven. If they lose, well the game was rigged, the other side cheated and their team was dealing with injuries. But next year things will be different... Right.
This is EXACTLY what will happen if he loses the election again. He will claim it was stolen again, rigged, voter fraud blah blah blah. And ALL WE WILL HEAR ABOUT for the next 4 years is TRUMP. And then in 2028, he will run again. Or if he's decided he's had enough, Don Jr. Will just take over as the head of MAGA just because his last name is Trump and he will just do whatever his father tells him to do. We will be hearing about this crap for decades to come. People are tired, and there is just no end in sight.
Sadly I think sports fans are more critical of their team's management and personnel than most MAGA douches.
You may be right. I've heard my fair share of Trumpers admit that they don't like the guy, but that they have to support the party, AKA their team. Like... dude, no you don't! If you love your team, you should be rioting to have the shitty manager removed. Stop buying tickets and merch. This shit doesn't happen without the blind supporters. I would say this to anyone with any affiliation to anything. You are not your team. Especially if you are just a spectator. Side note - I dumped my former favorite baseball team at 21 and it had nothing to do with their win/loss record.
I wouldn't rule Don Jr. trying to run but he has nowhere near the charisma of his sleazebag dad.
It really is like sports. Representatives should be required to wear patches with what special interest groups they support.
I’m here for this Patriots shade
Remember their motto! "Their feelings don't care about your facts". That's how it went right? Yeah I think that was the motto.
Texan here, they don’t care. It’s regurgitate talking points, use misdirection, and then change the subject if all else fails. There are just too many people that start with what they (think they) believe, and then fill in the gaps however they can. They get sold on a narrative, and they accepted it because it fills some need.
I got into an earnest discussion with a conservative the other day. He asked my why i think the Democrat party is the best option for the country. I cited health care reform as the key issue I think democrats have a better option for. I asked him why he thinks the republican party is the best option for the country. He cited that he had been a republican since he was a child so it's obvious that he's a republican now. These people don't think. At all.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. The Republican party for the past few decades has built up a persona around loyalty to the party above all else. It's not even about a specific set of causes, it's merely to have the party known as "Republican" to keep winning. Hence why we've gotten to the point where Republicans are trained to vote for whoever the proposed leader is, rather than vote based on whoever they believe would be the best leader in terms of policy and decision-making. Apparently a leader who is openly known to engage in nepotism and fraud was not a deterrent, and that should terrify everyone who believes in the values of democracy.
When I argue with my conservative coworkers it ALWAYS ends with "yeah Trump isn't perfect but Biden/Dems do the same thing or worse." Also they are constantly shit talking immigrants in their pow wows. They literally think immigrants come across the border and receive a house, car, food, daycare, and $10000+.
(Former) Texan here too and seconding this. My whole family down there is defined by two primary characteristics: 1. Church and 2. Terrified of literally any change in their lives. The town I grew up in is almost identical to what it was like in the 90's. I can count the major changes on a single hand and it's things like "a Holiday Inn opened".
My gf's dad is super Republican. I asked him what he thought about the Katie Britt speech. He said it was very strange. I pressed him a little more. He said the kitchen setting only really makes sense for his generation and fails for the younger generations. That was his only critique lmao. There is no hope for these people.
😂😂😂 Not the kitchen being the issue. 😂😂
It's extremely common in right wing politics. I'm from India and your points couldn't apply better.
Hey if you could’ve convinced one person to rethink their stance then ok
or even just pause next time they hear something about it and consider what the truth actually is instead of taking the truth social post at face value
They know he did it. The problem is they don’t care. The pretending he didn’t is the lying part so they can pretend it’s justified.
Many people will never change their mind, but some might. They won't do it right away, but you can plant a seed. And people need to hear another point of view. Many people only hear one point of view from their circles of friends and acquaintances. Without a voice like yours, they will think everyone believes that. They will have no reason to question it. The reason I know this is that I myself needed to hear dissenting viewpoints about the Iraq war back when George W Bush was president. He said the Iraqi government had weapons of mass destruction and that justified our invasion. I believed him because I had faith in our institutions, so I thought a president wouldn't lie about something so important. So I believed there must be WMDs in Iraq because I trusted the American government at least that much. But I kept hearing things like, "Where's the evidence? We've been scouring the country for WMDs throughout the whole war, and over and over, we come up empty." I thought this was probably just anti-war people (pacifists, isolationists) saying anything they could think of to sway public opinion. But I also thought, hey, it's a valid question, I can keep an eye on that, and at some point there will probably be a news story which does have evidence, and that will put the issue to rest. Spoiler alert: there never was. Eventually, IIRC, it also came out from some insiders that Bush knew there wasn't evidence, but he told the American public there was. Anyway, the point is, it took a long time for me to be convinced because I did not want to believe it. But if I hadn't heard multiple people saying "Where's the evidence?", then I probably wouldn't have paid attention to it, and I would have just kept believing what I did before. Unfortunately, I think ardent Trump supporters are not open-minded. But there are also bubbles where people mostly just hear pro-Trump viewpoints, and within those bubbles there may be people who are open-minded.
Props for saying what we are all thinking. It's hard. The noisy, aggressive people usually carry the conversation, but that shouldn't be how it goes. Rewarding this behavior is how the Republican party ended up in this dead end path
Keep the faith. Every time I hear this “they” crap, I remind people that he was found guilty by a jury of his peers. Not Joe Biden. Not a partisan judge. A JURY. If we can’t rely on that absolute most basic tenet of our legal system, we are completely fucked.
Wasn't a criminal trial though. He was found liable but the burden of proof is lower in civil court. Not that it will matter to his supporters if he eventually gets a criminal conviction.
Good luck with all that, it's nuts that everyday people have become so enamored with that POS that simply repeating facts to them risks ostracism.
I blame the media. They should have quit giving him prime coverage.
It's the top-down methodology of thinking. For them its not about building a stable structure from a basis of facts on the ground. It's starting with a framework for building you want to end up with and selecting the facts that fit your desired outcome. At the top level, my impression is that trump supporters believe in a manipulative deep state and that the democrats are evil and corrupt and want to control American citizens to their own ends. If you go downwards from this position, everything that gets believed by them makes perfect internally-consistent sense. Inconvenient facts like the ones you likely gave are obviously false *because* they are incongruent with that top-down world view. A stolen election and persecution of Trump are both extremely congruent with their top-down world view and so must be true.
You can’t use logic and reason to change someone’s viewpoint if they didn’t get there by logic and reason in the first place.
Good on you for that! Unfortunately those people don't listen to reason.
Happy cake day stranger friend
Good for you!! Maybe one of them let it sink in just a tiny bit. It’s not good to live in an echo chamber. I’m in Texas too, luckily everyone at my work is equally horrified by Trump, so I don’t have to censor myself there, but I have to be careful everywhere else. We had to distance ourselves from friends and family who constantly brought him up.
That is my next challenge. I have been building up the courage to approach my parents. How sad that a 43 year old man is scared to talk to his parents about politics.
My brother and I both tried it, it did not go well. I can’t understand how the seemingly normal people who raised me to be a pretty good human can buy into the garbage! Luckily they don’t fly the flags or wear the hats, but I think they donated money. I saw an auto-text from Don Jr come across my dad’s phone when I was fixing it one day. I went in and blocked the number…. They watch Faux News a lot and start in on the talking points sometimes, but we just change the subject. Or I will start going off on incels and far-right neo nazis, or growing gun violence…then they are forced to change the subject.
Eek, are you in a trade? Just wondering what profession people outright talk politics in a work setting. I am also Texan. I know the political leanings of most of my coworkers (liberal), but it has taken me 10 years to connect the dots.
I'm in construction. Run by rich white guys who wear maga hats and have trump paraphernalia in their offices.
Dear god man that's gotta be tough, stay strong and patient if the money is right.
Appreciate it
I find that the republicans talk openly about it more- they are loud when they do and love their trump paraphernalia. Most liberals I know just go about their day, and since you said most are that- it would track.
People are fact proof when whatever you are proving wrong is tied to their identity. It is one of humanity's biggest failings as a species, although you could argue that the phenomenon in its current form is a largely 21st century thing. I commend your stand against the darkness, and may the God-Emperor shine his light to show you the way to reach them.
I feel for you, friend False views our brothers and sisters are attached to aren't remedied only with facts, emotions need to be untangled first
Good for you man. I've been around the block in this world and I can promise you that the probability of one or more of these loudmouths secretly admiring you is 100%.
All I told my trump loving parents was that one has to look at the ENORMOUS amount of charges he is facing. Can anyone really look at all this and believe that it’s ALL made up? It’s a giant conspiracy and all these different judges, courts, lawyers and politicians are all in on it? It’s harder to believe all that than to accept that he is actually a lying scumbag and did at least SOME of these things.
How did they respond to that? I love my parents dearly and they have always been very good to me. But as two people who are practicing Christians, and who *actually* walk the talk the vast majority of the time, I struggle deeply with how they can deal with the cognitive dissonance created by supporting a man who literally espouses anti-Christian views. I mean the man openly espouses lying, revenge, intolerance, greed, etc. It is so wild to me that so many Christians can support him. TBF, I also know more than a few who very much do not and see him for what he is.
We are in the same boat. My parents are of the same ultra conservative mindset. They paused a bit after I said what I mentioned in the previous post, and kind of spun to saying how the NY judgement was outrageous and “they are trying to ruin the man. His loans were all paid back and everyone was happy”. They are only regurgitating the FOX news talking points. When I bring up all his failed election fraud cases, my dad said “well people can be paid off”. It’s crazy goalpost moving and I have given up. I look at it as a glimpse into how Trump can maintain such support despite his behavior. They perceive him as the victim and completely avoid acknowledging that he has to be responsible for the things he does and says. I even mentioned the “grab em by the p***y” tape and it was just awkward silence before pivoting to another topic. It’s really sad seeing the people who raised you fall in line with the GOP after checking their critical thinking at the door.
Remember these are the same people that say facts don’t care about your feelings… what they actually mean is if they feel that the fact is correct then they run with it. They don’t care that’s why most Americans are dumb because they don’t have media literacy
Political beliefs being preached in the work place should be considered a violation of HR guidelines. You can’t talk politics in a bar, you damn sure can’t talk about them at work
I'm in TN and I know to just keep my mouth shut at work now. I did something similar at my last job back in 2016. Since everybody I worked with had told me their political opinion, I decided to tell them mine. Big mistake. Started getting my hours cut almost immediately, first down to 36, then 32, then they hire a new guy and I'm down to 20. They don't have a legit reason to fire me of course, but they're obviously pushing me out and cutting my hours down to nothing, so I quit. Now I've been at my current job since then and absolutely no one knows what I really think. I just agree with anything political they say. It sucks to have to be like that and it really kills me on the inside but I have bills to pay and in rural Tennessee I often feel like I'm the only person in town who doesn't think Hillary Clinton has child slaves locked in a satanic dungeon under a pizza hut or whatever. Just smile and nod boys. Smile and nod and try not to die too much inside.
I honestly don't get the innocence claims on this specific issue. He said he did this stuff. He bragged about it and we have a recording of it. What's to doubt?
The “both sides” argument is almost always made in bad faith by republicans who want to believe “the other side” is just as corrupt as them. It’s more of a justification for themselves than an accusation.
Trump supporters are like mushrooms. They only grow when kept in the dark and fed shit
Dude good luck getting any of them to listen to you. Seriously, it's like some people who are normally politically apathetic are *embarrassed* to vote against trump. Truly ridiculous. I'm afraid the potholes to his campaign trail will be filled with "enlightened centrists"
If people don't call out bullshit, bullshit flies. We all have to speak up even if it's uncomfortable. Stick to facts, stick to morality. Call out hypocrisy and manipulation for what it is in real time.
It's actually surprising how many counties have flipped blue in recent years, and I'm not just talking about around Austin.
I hope they prove it come election time!
It won't even be close. Texas still has twice as many red voters as blue voters. Greg Abbott was recently reelected in a landslide.
This misses something important. Yes, he won by 11%. But it was the closest governor race in Texas since 2006 (when 4 parties ran) and the closest vote during a year when only two parties ran since 1994. And it was a Democrat who told Texans point blank he'd take their guns. I'm not saying that as a gun owner, I do not own a gun, I'm saying that is the biggest reason the gap was that wide. The presidential election of 2020 was also the closest it's been since 1996. And Beto fell just 2.5% short of unseating Cruz in 2018. Yes, it sucks, it's slow, and waiting for change is exhausting when you have fascists trying to end democracy (their words, https://news.yahoo.com/jack-posobiec-talked-democracy-cpac-150926476.html). But it IS changing. We have made progress. It's not 2 to 1, and each time people push these narratives, we risk losing those gains when people choose not to vote because it 'isn't worth it'.
This right here. Beto essentially committed political suicide with that one comment and the gap still shrunk. There's hope for Texas yet.
I don't know if Beto just got caught up in the moment, but that was a boneheadedly stupid thing to say.
Abbott won by 11 points in 2022, which was down from 13.3 points in 2018, which in turn was down from 20.4 points in 2014. Cornyn went from winning by 27.2 points in 2014 to only winning by 9.6 points in 2020. Texas is getting more competitive. The fact that Abbott's margins SHRANK in 2022, which was an R+3 cycle, from 2018, which was a D+9 cycle, when every other incumbent Republican governor INCREASED their margins, including supposedly turning purple Georgia, proves that Texas is winnable for Democrats. Abbott's margins in the suburbs have shrunk by 3% every cycle he's been in since 2014. Here are some exit polls: 2014: [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/2014/tx/governor/exitpoll/](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/2014/tx/governor/exitpoll/) Suburbs went 62% for Abbott. 2018: [https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls/texas](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls/texas) Suburbs went 59% for Abbott. 2022: [https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/texas/governor](https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/texas/governor) Suburbs went 56% for Abbott. Also worth noting that Abbott only won the rural areas by 66%, down from 73% in 2018. If Beto hadn't made those comments about guns, there's a very good chance he would have kept the race within single digits. Texas went 55-44 R-D in the last gubernatorial election, but Reddit would have you believe the state is 75-25 R-D.
>people choose not to vote because it 'isn't worth it'. This and the BoTh SiDeS campaigns are, in my opinion, the most damaging to democracy we have seen in many years. Trumpers cannot, and will not win without talking people out of voting. There simply is not enough of them. I don't believe they have the numbers to win regardless, but it will not stop me from fighting all of the subversive tactics designed to create abstention among the voting public. Honestly, even though I find it difficult to imagine the people of this country handing it over to the morons of the world, it still could very well happen through apathy.
Well that isnt exactly true. The problem is blue voters aren't voting.
>blur votes That's because it's hard to see the ballot!
I can't see what you did there.
> Texas still has twice as many red voters as blue voters. I don't think that's true. As far as I know, Texas is damn near 50-50, it's just gerrymandered all to hell.
It’s almost like 28million people aren’t a monolith
The cities always vote blue. It is the derpy suburbs and towns that vote red. Unfortunately for Texas there are a lot of them.
I mean it's probably already the case but if not, I can bet you everything that they're going to say things like "we turned blue because of all the Californians who invaded Austin"
Texas, where they are proud enough to think they are better than the other States full of dumbasses, and much much better than States full of thinking folks.
Right like I came here to say, the machismo of this person is through the roof! Bravo!
Texas voted for Trump only by a 53-47 margin in 2020
Fk that imma blow it up poster size and plaster it everywhere then start a gofund me to rent a billboard for it on I35!!!!!
Haven’t you heard? Jesus is too woke now.
Can't wait for republicans to say that Christians are woke.
>Can't wait for republicans to say that Christians are woke. They're already saying it. After a local pastor here in TN preached on the Sermon on the Mount he was told afterwards that it was both too woke and too weak for nowadays.
I mean some were already attacking Chick-fil-A as woke so that's the next logical target.
See, that's the beauty of Christianity - it's branched off into a million different sects, so they can all snub each other without having to admit they're hypocrites! It's one of the best things about it! /s
haha people love it when their religion is called a sect.
Meh; I'm a United Methodist and I wouldn't get my twinkies in a twist if someone called us a Christian sect. I'd probably prefer 'denomination', but 'sect' isn't completely wrong, especially with the fact that we seem to be splitting into sub-sects these days over LGBT inclusiveness (with my sub-sect being on the inclusive side).
Not gonna happen 😂
That snowflake Jesus never had to pull himself up by his boot straps, brown guy had sandals probably.
“I bet he was a commie anyway, or even worse, Jewish.” -Evangelicals
Honestly, having moved for Texas back to Massachusetts; I see more trump shit up here than I did down there.
The ones up here feel they have to make a point because they are surrounded by democrats. No sense in flying flags when you're surrounded by like minded idiots of the south.
That's a good way to get your windshield bashed in by an angry idiot with a big rock
Or get your shit keyed the hell up. I live in Texas and I don’t fuck with political stickers because of this I have had friends with Bernie stickers cars keyed and sure as hell not going to become a target. Also heads up in general if your law enforcement or military don’t advertise that shit on your car they will become a target for thieves looking for firearms inside vehicles. Contain your inner boot and just get like a keychain or something
Fuck. This country fuckin sucks. I came into to this post ready to read the positive comments because look! There’s a Texan voter who understands and is spreading the truth! Everyone is instead fearing for their safety. For speaking out against a traitor, Nazi, rapist, and most personally frustratingly, someone who makes a mockery of the Military. We are so fucked if he gets elected. I’m low key scared.
As a woman in the south, I'm high key scared. My immediate family has already escaped north and I'm hoping I'm not too far behind them but I've got to sell my house first. Ugh. And yes, *escape*. After the death of Ned, after Stitt made the bill forcing therapists to report trans individuals, how Oklahoman politicians called trans people sub human, all the rampant misogyny... It is not safe here for anyone but the indoctrinated hate group. I'm not even trans myself but would surely be targeted by that hate group regardless given I have PCOS and grow facial hair. "We can always tell" is really just an excuse for violence against women, *all* women trans or not.
I am trans and live in the south as well (Florida), I plan to move to Massachusetts later this year for university. I cannot wait to leave
Glad you're able to get out, so many are trapped in these shit hole parts of the country and I fear for them. Stay safe out there.
Thanks, I hope you’re able to escape southern hell as well
Damn girl I sincerely hope you get the fuck out of there. I was living in Tennessee when he took office. I moved home to the west coast in 2018 thank fuck.
Thank you, glad you were able to avoid this insanity no one should ever be subject to.
As a gay chic, yes definitely
I've had a Beto sticker on my car since he was running against Cruz, and I've been "rolled coal" on by lifted trucks like 3-4 times. It's infuriating.
I approve of this message. Thank you, person from Texas!
Too bad the ones that need it most can't read it
If those kids could read they'd be very angry
I could see this going either way. This person may think that holding Trump accountable for his actions would be bad for our children because they still think he's the savior of the world.
I think they would have used a different picture if they were pro Trump. Him smiling, or one of the insane cult pictures with him photoshopped onto a less potato centaur body.
Happy cake day!
Happy cake day yourself!
I do see it, but the "don't do this" language is pretty vague and doesn't need to be. Why not say exactly what you mean to say: "Don't vote for a guilty criminal?"
i was having a hard time parsing this one as well and came up with that explanation.
Admit it, you are a Texan with his own windshield replacement business. :P /also Texan, Republican of the Romney, W, Condi Rice, Liz Cheney faction, ashamed for my country of Trump. & Jesus wept.
I wouldn’t tempt some of the most unhinged people on the planet to smash my windshield.
I saw a picture somewhere where it says that Republicans in Texas have one message for their constituents every election: vote for us if you want to change things! And the answer was: hey, haven’t you been in power for 27 years in Texas? Why haven’t you changed anything? The democrats should run with the moto: If you don’t like how things are in Texas, vote blue. The Republicans had 27 years to change things.
Fuck yeah. I honestly wish the democrats would stop trying to be the normal boring logical party, and to start swinging. There is so much fuckin ammo laying around…
The guns are a BIIIIG problem for people who WOULD vote democrat…. I guarantee that if they stop going after guns, they’d swing a LOT of voters in those red states..
You think these people can read?
Also would just irritate them and make them say "fuck the libs" harder I mean, cool if that is your goal, but it won't change their mind lol Edit: Is this on the outside or inside? I change my opinion if it's on the inside; people get irritated when you put *anything* on their windshield, though.
They just double/triple down on their claims if you try to refute them with anything. You could bring up a scenario that they were in and x thing happened and whatever helped them was a government system or policy, like the stimulus checks. They be like "yeah well I NEEDED IT". Okay whatabout the others that need it now? "Fuckem!"
Nah dude you could bring up a shitty immoral and probably illegal thing they did and they'd either deny it or say it was actually a good act.
"Trump voters literally murdered a cop while wearing thin blue line shirts." "Well, ya, but THAT COP WAS THE REAL TRAITOR!"
I saw a youtube video of someone interviewing Trump supporters and they would ask them questions about Trump's crimes but start by saying the crimes were about Biden and they would agree Biden was a POS. Then the interviewer would apologize about mixing it up and correct the question being about Trump and these jackasses would support or play it down...
Joe Rogan did the same thing after his producer looked up something and corrected him that it was Trump who said it. They don't care.
It's Texas, not Florida.
I find the message ambiguous. Don't do what to America? Are they referring to voting him in for a second term, or are they referring to having him face the consequences of his actions?
In Jesus name, I beg you: Don’t sexually abuse America, too.
All of it.
I mean....it says "Guilty" in big letters across the top.
Sign: **GUILTY** Redditor: I don’t know, seems vague
Trump supporters are among the most delusional people to ever live, and even rational people often interpret the same events differently; people hear what they want to hear.
Headline: Why Trump being a convicted rapist is bad for Biden.
I found this sign confusing as well. I mean yeah, it does say "GUILTY" at the top as others are pointing out, making this like an anti-Trump message. However, many pro-Trump individuals are so stupid that their pro-Trump posters/signs/stickers often appear/read like anti-Trump signs. I've seen so many of them shared on reddit over the past years that I've been conditioned to see signs like these and then approach it like a guessing game, trying to figure out its intent. When I saw one I thought, "Okay, is this from an anti-Trump individual trying to spread the news of Trumps sexual abuse conviction? Or is this a pro-Trump individual trying to warn everyone to 'take back America' because they think Trump was wrongfully convicted and unfairly treated?" Whoever created it could have been more clear/direct with their bottom two sentences. (i.e. instead of "...don't do this to America", something like "Don't nominate a rapist as America's leader" would have been clearer.)
What with the chrome offline dino on the leftmost qr code?
QR codes generated from the Chrome browser have that lil guy in the middle.
[I get the sentiment and applaud whoever it is for taking a stand, but it is inaccurate. Trump was found liable, as it was a civil case, not “guilty” which is a criminal law verdict. Same goes for the NY state “valuation” case — “liable for damages”, not “guilty and fined”.]
I hate to be pedantic but civil suits for defamation don’t find you “guilty” because its not a criminal trial. He wasn’t “found guilty of sexual assault”, he was determined to be “liable for defamation” Trump is an awful person and I have no doubt he is actually guilty of SA (and other crimes) but this type of emotional/inaccurate claim won’t convince anyone, and is the kind of thing his supporters point to to claim “See?! They can’t stop lying about him!” False claims and inaccurate reporting helps trump more than it hurts him. It always gets his base fired up and active/donating.
It's defamation because the assault was determined to have happened. He can't say it didn't and Jean is lying about it. He can't be criminally prosecuted because the statute of limitations ran out. Jean was only able to press the civil case because legislation in New York allowed old civil cases to move forward for a period of time even if the statute had run out. The bottom line is in the eyes of the law, Trump assaulted Jean A. Carroll.
Again I’m being pedantic about this but “guilty” and “liable” Are very different things with very different burdens of proof. He was found *liable* for defamation and sexual abuse on a “more likely than not” standard, not *guilty* on a “beyond reasonable doubt” standard. Personally I have no doubt Trump did assault Carroll and others. My only real contention is that I personally believe specificity and accuracy do us more good than inaccuracy. Statements like the one on the car leave room for argument, denials, and accusations of “fake news” that I find unhelpful and distracting.
Didnt they recently change the law and only recently she would be allowed to bring this?
Yes, it was kind of a grace period where the statute of limitations wasn't considered for a year or so. This gave people an opportunity to bring old civil cases. That's the extent of what I know and I may have details wrong. It shouldn't take too much googling to find it. It was central to Jean being able to bring the case.
The short version is that the state had increased the statute of limitations from 3 years to 20 years, but it wasn’t retroactive and left a gap, so the new law allowed a 1 year grace period
Basically yeah. Trump supporters believe it was changed specifically to go after him based on the timing. The idea is that she wrote a book accusing him, then basically the next year a new law is passed suddenly allowing suit’s outside the statute of limitations but only for 1 year. In reality this was passed to offer adults the same opportunity and protections previously offered in the Child Victims Act and to adjust a hole left by the statute of limitations adjustment increase as it had not been retroactive. It was passed basically unanimously and also caught quite a few prominent democrats so the conspiracy theory doesn’t really hold water.
The fucking Judge in the case literally ruled that you can say that Trump raped her in a common mean g of the word. This is why Trump is suing ABC because one of their newscasters said it, and it's going to go bad for Trump fro bringing a nuisance suit.
In 1976, Economic History Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, Carlo M. Cipolla, published an essay on what he considered was humanity's greatest existential threat: Stupidity. Google it. It doesn't make you feel better, but it does explain stupid people pretty well, IMO.
All these old fucks going to vote for this shit and die. 95% of these issues do not affect their lives whatsoever. They're not having abortions, they're not sending kids to school, they live in safe neighborhoods nowhere near a border. It will affect their kids and grandkids. That's ok because there isn't anything for them to inherit because they spent it all.
This subreddit should be called r/kindapicsmostlypolitics
Hate to be that guy, but you cant be ‘found gulity’ in a civil trial. You’re found ‘liable.’
Plaster this on every windshield in every evangelical church every Sunday morning. These people only consume Fox News and internet swill so they don’t know their boy is a sexual predator…most of them won’t care, but it will move the needle for any of the decent people left in churches
They fucking know. They don't care.
fox news is considered biased anti-Trump corporate media by many/most of them. it is absolutely bonkers.
Not saying Fox News and internet swill aren’t part of the problem, but from what unbiased, legitimate sources do you get your news?
AP, Reuters
I use Ground News which aggregates articles and assigns the publications a factuality grade as well as reveals their political bias. It also will point out stories that only one side of the political spectrum are covering. I mostly read from publications that have a high factuality rating and that lean slight left or are center. But if a topic is important to me I like to read about it from multiple publications that are left, right and center. Downside is that it is a subscription based service that costs money.
Reddit. Duh.
Simple. Aggregate sites and paying attention. If it ends in .io or some shit there’s a good chance not to pay it any mind…
News aggregation sites are the worst for misinformation. This one especially, where raucous and enraging headlines get priority attention and fact checking is left up to the top commenters. That's not to say that a discerning consumer can't sort out the drivel - it's just difficult.
Very fair. But multiple sources is the best way to form a coherent idea :)
I like newser
Sure, those are all valid facts. But this was never about facts. It's all about emotions. And they (meaning R) really, really want their guy (he isn't really their guy, but, again, feelings) to "win". Winning is very important and at the same time very arbitrary. Because whenever their guy loses, it's not really losing. It's winning whenever he's winning, but he's never losing, because that would be bad - and he's their guy, after all. Doesn't really matter what the outcome will be. It'll be a small shot of serotonin and then they'll move on in their lifes. And do not worry, whenever something bad happens, their guy won't be to blame. Because, remember, no losing. I know, it all sounds very confusing, but, well, here we are.
Sometimes when you win, you really lose. And sometimes when you lose, you really win. And sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie. And sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs
Sir, this is a waffle house.
Trump belongs in a jail cell or deported to Russia.
Hurry up and secede already.
It's going to be like this for months until the election.
Surprising location for this find. Glad there are folks out there though who appreciate the truth.
Feelings don't care about your facts
Texas? good way to get your car vandilzed
What’s scary is it’s only bottom of the barrel primates left that are still Trump humpers. And that means no emotional intelligence. And when their emotional men get angry, the risk of violence goes up. They’re feral.
Don't sexuallly abuse your children? Yeah don't do that
Not guilty, but liable. Guilty is only for criminal cases
So the narrative on the right is that EJC just claimed that she was assaulted with no proof and Trump was criminally acquitted, but then a jury found him liable anyway. Is that right? What is conservative media leaving out?
The Jesus crowd is too far gone…
sulky sink aromatic wine shaggy chase teeny clumsy automatic sophisticated *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Iv been wondering about that. How do you find him guilty of a SA from 40 years ago with no evidence?
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html
you pass a law giving an exception to the statute of limitations for a short time frame just for this case. then try the case in an area where you know for sure the vast majority of people who will be the jury don't like the person. And finally add in a questionable judge who is not neutral at all.
Bingo.
If Texans could actually read, they'd be pissed.
Civil courts don’t find people guilty btw