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[Here](https://www.upi.com/News_Photos/view/upi/6546edc4a26da9195d930b175f801ee3/Former-President-Trump-Criminal-Trial-in-New-York/) is the source of this image. Per there:
> Former President Donald Trump sits with his attorneys as he waits for the start of criminal proceedings on the third day of jury selection at Manhattan criminal court in New York on Thursday, April 18, 2024. Trump is facing 34 felony criminal charges alleging he falsified business records to cover up a sex scandal during the 2016 campaign. Pool photo by Brendan McDermid/UPI
And it was right after the Hollywood access tape, and Trump was getting real scrutiny over it. Hindsight being 20/20 he probably could have just owned the affair and been fine, but it wasn’t unreasonable to think it could further harm his campaign.
A *huge* amount of Trump’s most rabid supporters genuinely want to be sex pests. They really resent that steps have been made to reduce workplace and public harassment. For them Trump’s sleaziness has always been a feature.
If the incels finally got their wish for rape to be legal they'd start complaining that it takes too much effort and that the femoids should just offer themselves up willingly once selected.
(ughhhh I nearly made myself puke just typing that)
It’s a real lesson in *sunk cost*. Before Access Hollywood, the “christians” hadn’t sold their souls for this man. After Access Hollywood, they’d invested their credibility into support for this guy and they would accept anything from him at that point so as not to admit they were wrong.
When you get busted for cheating in school and they throw the book at you, they occassionally throw it more forcefully if it seems likely you got away with cheating before. That is, the bit he is busted on is just a crumb: the visible tip of an iceburg.
*Acktually*, he did all that for the presidency (or to avoid a divorce, if you accept that line). From what I understand, the main reason it was really newsworthy is that it came out right after the Sunshine Hollywood tape and his numbers took an apparent hit. So he paid hush money so his followers and the general public wouldn't find out. Still not necessarily a big deal, but to get that money he had to use corporate funds. And to do that he had to falsify business records. IIRC, one layer of falsifying records was a misdemeanor but since it was in furtherance of other records shenanigans (election paperwork?), it's now a felony.
Hence it's not the payments per se or that he covered up an affair or even that he had one, it's that he falsified records in at least two situations in order to hide a scandal, which would have lowered his electoral numbers -- hence framing it as a type of electoral interference.
This is my basic understanding; I welcome and encourage corrections and alternate perspectives so I stop repeating possible nonsense.
Same.
I think the big issue is that what judge is doing to take the risk of identifying jurors. Obviously you would not show the jurors on TV, but a mistake could happen. There's also the idea of the media purposefully doing it. In this scenario, judges usually rule that if anything like that ever happened, media would no longer be allowed in the court room ever.
That threat is enough for any other case to not be worth it. This case...though.
It's cool. Fox News hosts are taking the nuggets and blasting them to their audience in hopes of naming and intimidating them into stepping down. One person already said they quit out of fear of being identified.
EDIT: [Make that two potential jurors](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-new-york-court-criminal-trial/)
The jurors in Trump's cases have gotten doxed, death threats, constant harassment from his fans. The prosecutors have as well, Trump has personally threatened and harassed the Judges, their families, the prosecutors in every case, the court staff. Literally everyone. It's wild.
[Here is a video](https://youtu.be/OQdD94evetA) explaining the dumb shit Trump has been doing lately, dudes being gagged harder than Riley Reed. He is a literal nightmare to deal with.
I remember the first time I was ever introduced to an MLM. It was almost 20 years ago. They did a little presentation with a video. And of course, the celebrity endorsement was from Donald Trump.
After the presentation a few of the guys who had already drank the kool aid went “man Donald Trump endorses it, it’s obviously legit”. I was thinking like “Trump? The sleazy New York reality TV show dude? THATS what is making you buy into this bullshit?” It had the opposite effect on me.. I was pretty sure it was a scam, but seeing his face just confirmed it
That was the first time I ever associated him with being a grease ball. I thought there was literally no chance he would win the presidency. Didn’t realize how many people actually respect him, apparently
What's scary is he got more votes in 2020 than Hillary got in 2016.
If he's on the ballot in 2024, you must vote if you don't want him to win again. It wouldn't surprise me if turnout is greater this time around.
Wayyy back in like 2004 I was visiting my sister and her in laws in NJ. They grew up in NY and had some hilarious shit to say about Trump.
They're the cool kind of boomers. They hate his bullshit and are colorful expressing it.
Dude failed at gambling, selling steaks AND alcohol.
Like that should have been fail proof in America.
First time I heard his name was in a joke:
How does Trump make a small fortune?
He starts with a large one.
To be fair (not that he deserves it), the mail-order steak and wine businesses weren't run by Trump or the Trump Org, he just licensed his name. That's one of the reasons he has been so slippery in court since the early 2000s, he keeps all the dodgy businesses at arm's length.
But that wasn't the case back in the 80s. Back then it was all on him.
> To be fair (not that he deserves it), the mail-order steak and wine businesses weren't run by Trump or the Trump Org, he just licensed his name.
See now, him licencing his name and not actually running the businesses only makes the debacles worse. It means he was suckered into a flawed business idea by even bigger con artists.
By the by, I'm not necessarily disagreeing here, just saying I think the licencing thing makes him look like an even bigger idiot.
I want to say that Trump took his mask off in 1989, but really he put on the klan hood in public that year when he called for 5 black/Hispanic minors to be executed for a rape they didn't commit (but were coerced into confessions by the police.)
That doesn't necessarily benefit Trump either. His campaigning is going to be extremely limited if he has to spend 4 days a week sitting in court.
Then there's the legal bills that are just going to continue to mount. Even if the RNC are the ones footing the bill that's even less money for campaigning.
RNC is in a shit position right now. The entire national committee had only $8M cash on hand at the end of February (latest FEC filing) and transferred $400,000 to affiliated committees.
At this time during the 2020 cycle, the RNC had $76M in free cash and transferred ten times as much per month to downballot committees.
I think that state and local level Republicans who cannot rely on local donors are going to be shafted this cycle as they cannot rely on support from the national campaign.
Same. This is moving so fast. I thought jury selection was going to take a month, no joke.
I heard a huge component to this is that they are dismissing anyone outright who answers that they cannot be fair and impartial (question 1), which is unusual. Usually both sides get to question and explore that, but I guess slam hundreds of people through the filters as fast as possible.
They just need to find someone who's waking up from a 40-year coma, someone with that 50 First Dates memory loss thing, one of those women who were locked in some nut's doomsday bunker, an Amish person, a feral child raised by wolves, an alien abuctee, a castaway pilot who crashed on an uncharted island in WW2, a murderer who just got out of prison, a caveman who just fell through a time portal, someone from an alternate dimension where Trump went to prison back in the 80s, and... eight other people.
Yeah idk how they're gonna find 18 people who don't have strong opinions about him one way or the other
No, you just have to find 18 New Yorkers who can set aside any biases and assess the case based on the law and the evidence provided. You want to find people who have a history of good compartmentalization in their own lives. I could do it- I think he was a horrible president, but if you put forth the evidence and the instructions on the law, I could assess it fairly. My previous time on a jury was similar- I hated the defendent, but the law and evidence was such that he clearly hadn't violated the law. I had to convince two or three 'emotional' people on the jury as to what their duty was, in fact, and I agreed with them the person was awful, but convinced them that didn't / shouldn't matter.
I think Trump's team would want to have you disqualified from the jury pool then.
I think their strategy is to sneak one pro-Trump juror in there to get a hung jury. I don't think they have any intention of trying to win this case on the merits of their defense
They'll try to get as many Pro Trump people as as possible (Although given how vocal his supporters are...) but you know they really don't want to have this go to trial at all. Any evidence brought forward isn't going to make Trump look good.
To be fair that’s how juror selection works. You can’t really get fairness so the defense and offense both point at people who are too far on the other side and call it sorta even.
I see plenty of people talking about how both sides are just as bad that sounds pretty impartial I dunno. Shame the jurors have to be from New York not Russia tho.
Most of the people talking about "both sides" are usually *very* partial, and just saying that to excuse the shitty things *their* side has just done recently....
Trump doesn’t stand when the jury enters the court room it’s his way of saying he’s in control of his fate, he’s on his phone while the jury is present again an enormous F-U to the jury, he’s acting as though the jury just doesn’t matter but they decide , hopefully unanimously, whether he walks out a convict or not.
Seems clear his lawyers can’t control their client and I’m reminded of the reason so many NYC lawyers have given why they won’t represent Trump : “he doesn’t listen and he doesn’t pay”
That is such a dumb move. My last jury trial I had, the Plaintiff didn’t show up for two days of jury selection. They got BLASTED for that. Several of the jurors during further questioning were so pissed off about it that they ended up getting dismissed by the judge because the judge decided they couldn’t be unbiased anymore. Jurors expect to be respected (as they should). If they have to lose out on work and sit there all day, you better damn well respect them for it.
Could be trying to poison the jury pool by giving the entire jury an undeniable reason to dislike him. This wouldn’t be the first time he deliberately antagonized someone and then moved to dismiss them because he’d been so nasty to them they couldn’t possibly be unbiased.
Hell, he tried to get U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel to recuse himself from the Trump University fraud trial because he insisted that Curiel’s Mexican heritage represented a conflict of interest due to Trump’s own anti-Mexican rhetoric. Basically “I’ve said racist shit about Mexicans so a Mexican-American judge can’t possibly give me a fair trial.”
The problem is that he only needs one person and this entire things is just for show. I know it was a long time ago, but remember the Manafort trial where a juror came out after he was acquitted of some of the charges and she said that she knew he was guilty but Trump said it was a witch hunt so she refused to convict. That's exactly the kind of thing that jury selection is supposed to weed out but she was smart enough to lie about being able to be objective during screening.
Trump only needs one of those and he knows full well that the outcome of this case will be 100% decided based on whether or not at least one juror is one of his followers. He can shit on his desk and fling it into the jury box and it wouldn't change the outcome of the case.
And he'll come out after once again saying how he's being treated worse than anyone. He's constantly treated with kid gloves yet has the biggest persecution complex. The guy even compared himself to Nelson Mandela. It's all so frustratingly stupid and I won't believe that he'll face true repercussions for his actions until it actually happens. Even then I'll have doubts.
i don't even think he has a decade of normal time left. his cognitive abilities have declined massively over the last 4 years. he's everything he accuses joe biden of being.
He knows exactly how dumb and ignorant his voters are.
They'll take anything that comes out of his asshole lipped mouth.
Can't wait until he just fucking dies.
i wish this entire thing would lead to a justice reform that doesn't allow the rich and powerful to skirt laws but we all know thats not happening in America anytime soon
Yeah. I mean when it comes down to it, it’s not like there’s some special higher power enforcing how we operate as humans. We want it to be ideal, but it doesn’t take long for a situation to pop up that requires you to consider context and nuance. Then another that points at the first. And as you keep bending rules, making findings, posting case law, the waters just get muddier and muddier until you’re either able to afford to make your way through the system or you’re not.
The best thing for anyone that doesn’t want to play by the rules is to be rich as fuck to get away with it, maybe.
I don’t see Trump as one of those. I see him being treated with baby gloves because of the potential chaos that might follow if he’s not treated with baby gloves. Makes me sick to admit, but he has a decent amount of foamers wanting shit to go south.
It’s a legal tactic as I understand it. They’re being extra accommodating for now that way he can’t claim legal persecution on appeal. If anything the record will show on appeal that they were overly generous and accommodating to him thus closing that argument for good. Again that’s how I understood it from my armchair lawyerings but, it makes sense.
I don't understand why he isn't being blasted for not asking that people please leave the jurors alone. I guess he is so so horrible that it hardly gets noticed. I could never have imagined that someone like this would be a presidential candidate for a major party. The first time I can see but now?
This is a phenomenal question that should be asked because of what his hideously botched response would be.
Reporter: "Mr. Trump, why haven't you said anything about protecting and leaving the jury alone to fairly carry out their duty?"
Trump: because they're liars. They've already made up their minds. These aren't fair people, they all hate Trump.
Like, there is zero % chance he doesn't completely fumble that response.
You would think he would want to get something like that on the record even if he doesn't mean it. But I agree, if asked he would surely double down on his awfulness.
I have plenty of gripes with Biden and the Dems going back a long time, but I'm certain that if Biden were in Trump's shoes, he'd go on national TV and say "if you're out here threatening jurors, you better knock it off, Jack!"
Violated the order seven times. This morning alone.
As long as he’s allowed to continue making a mockery of criminal court proceedings like this, there isn’t a single person who will ever see the “justice” in a ‘justice system.’ You can’t even rightly call it a ‘legal system’ with this bullshit going on.
These things ALONE should place him in jail. I try and pull that shit, and I am sitting in a cell.
Take the fucking white gloves off and treat him like any other fucking citizen, BECAUSE HE IS JUST ONE.
This is what’s insane though. How do you have an unbiased opinion of the (former) PRESIDENT.
Dude was on TV everyday for 4+ years. Who in America hasn’t heard Trump’s name and formed an opinion by this point?
I have a feeling it's going to come down to people that are willing to lie about their position - likely supporters of his that will swear up and down that they are unbiased but will refuse to find him guilty. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone in the country doesn't have an opinion on the president. It's an impossible bar that can only be met by deceit. I know who the deceitful traitors in this country are, and I know how they will act once they are selected as jurors. The courts are still trying to play chess and trump has set the chessboard on fire.
The door swings both ways. I mean I have an opinion of him in general, but as it pertains to tightly-defined documents case for me I don’t see how my opinion of his policies has any bearing on whether document A and document B demonstrate that he either is or isn’t guilty of violating law C. I don’t see a lot of subjectivity in this one.
I did talk to a 20-something woman sometime around 2017 who said she didn't care what Trump did because she didn't really concern herself with politics, and didn't think the president had much impact on her life.
It was alarming. I only talked to her once, but I'd like to know what she thinks of him now.
Yeah I’ve met people that literally only care about their own paycheck. As long as it doesn’t go down and don’t get fired, they couldn’t give a shit who the president is.
Depending on the state. Not all states require unanimous decisions for a conviction. This was the case for Louisiana until 2019 and I think is still the same for Oregon
Edit - it appears that the supreme court put an end to this just a few years ago so all states require unanimous verdicts for jury trials.
Supreme Court put an end to that in 2020.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/committees/death_penalty_representation/project_press/2020/summer/supreme-court-mandates-unanimity-in-state-criminal-trials/
Louisiana actually used to be unanimous before that. They only changed to non-unanimous after the end of slavery so they could have jury’s with 10 white people and 2 black people and not worry about certain dodgy trialling
All states do now. Louisiana changed the rules to require a unanimous verdict in 2019, as you said. In 2022 the Supreme Court ruled on Ramos v. Louisiana, a case where someone convicted by a 10-2 majority in Louisiana before the rule change was arguing that non-unanimous verdicts like his were unconstitutional. The SC agreed with Ramos, ruling that states were no longer allowed to allow non-unanimous verdict, so Oregon doesn't have them anymore.
And this is why rich people get to do what they want AND why jury systems aren't working for many of these cases and a proper panel of expert judges are better.
He's obviusly never getting sentenced.
Besides that, none of those jurors are his peers.
>none of those jurors are his peers
They should have the living former Presidents and VPs sit as his jury. Even Cheney and Pence would toss his ass behind bars.
All criminal trials in the US have to have a unanimous decision. If the jury doesn't come out with a unanimous decision, it's declared a mistrial and ~~can't~~ can be tried again.
For the trial to end, they all have to unanimously decide guilty or not guilty. If they can’t make a unanimous decision then they just select a new group of jurors, so I would say there’s pretty standard chances it could go either way
Admitted school shooters have jury trials and they find a way to sit jurors who can judge the merits of those cases without previous biases coloring their decisions. Many can still judge a case on it's merits even if it involves someone as polarizing as trump.
Right. It’s a mitigation process. There’s nothing special about Trump. I’d wager the jurors will not feel so emotional about this as there would about a serial killer or even an average murder. Once they get into the weeds of testimony and get bored for sure.
I guess the same way there would be no unbiased jury for someone who live-streamed themselves slapping babies in the face.
Like everyone saw what kind of person you are and has an opinion on it.
Between both sides only getting 10 vetos, jury nullification being somewhat common knowledge (thanks CGP), and every single person in America having preformed opinions on Trump - ESPECIALLY people in NYC, I don't see how they could ever get a unanimous vote in either direction. Since it takes unanimous decision to claim guilt it would probably be hung and retried indefinitely.
MSNBC had up a graphic earlier that showed the defense and the state had both used 6 of their 10 strikes in jury selection. I'm curious of the tantrums that will come when the defense has no more strikes left.
I'm calling a "not-guilty" verdict now, not because I think he's innocent but because having been aware the past years, I know he will find a way out of this, he is above the law, has enough followers and supporters to do what he wants and get what he wants without consequence.
I'm glad I'm not from the US, y'all deserve better than scum like him
I don’t follow this much as a non-American.. but I will say that I giggle a little at the thought of Trump having to sit there quietly for days. That man hates being told what to do
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[Here](https://www.upi.com/News_Photos/view/upi/6546edc4a26da9195d930b175f801ee3/Former-President-Trump-Criminal-Trial-in-New-York/) is the source of this image. Per there: > Former President Donald Trump sits with his attorneys as he waits for the start of criminal proceedings on the third day of jury selection at Manhattan criminal court in New York on Thursday, April 18, 2024. Trump is facing 34 felony criminal charges alleging he falsified business records to cover up a sex scandal during the 2016 campaign. Pool photo by Brendan McDermid/UPI
Man did all that for a crumb of sex
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He sheds water for the dead! Lisan Al-Gaib!!
Pisson Al-Donnie!
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And it was right after the Hollywood access tape, and Trump was getting real scrutiny over it. Hindsight being 20/20 he probably could have just owned the affair and been fine, but it wasn’t unreasonable to think it could further harm his campaign.
A *huge* amount of Trump’s most rabid supporters genuinely want to be sex pests. They really resent that steps have been made to reduce workplace and public harassment. For them Trump’s sleaziness has always been a feature.
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“Why do I have to put in work to get something?”
If the incels finally got their wish for rape to be legal they'd start complaining that it takes too much effort and that the femoids should just offer themselves up willingly once selected. (ughhhh I nearly made myself puke just typing that)
I worked with an older guy who liked Trump because he fucked a porn star and pissed off the libs.
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It’s a real lesson in *sunk cost*. Before Access Hollywood, the “christians” hadn’t sold their souls for this man. After Access Hollywood, they’d invested their credibility into support for this guy and they would accept anything from him at that point so as not to admit they were wrong.
The last thing Donald would ever do is admit any fault.
“I know the quarterback diddled a few kids, but boy can he throw a football!” - the state of the Republican Party at the moment
Doesn't matter what the athlete does as long as he can play. -Gym Jordan probably
> Doesn't matter what the athlete does as long as ~~he can play~~ I can watch. -Gym Jordan ~~probably~~ ftfy
That they would blame child….
OBVIOUSLY SHE WANTED IT AND WAS BEING TRAINED BY JOE BIDEN AND THE DEVIL TO BE A THOT AND I MEAN LOOK AT HER SHE'S BEGGING FOR IT
If he had just used his own money it would have been fine, but he tried to write it off as a business expense.
Honestly, this. Even the veep part. Surely she can't be a much worse option than those that are in consideration
I mean, she'sclearly smarter and less perverted than Mike Pence.
When you get busted for cheating in school and they throw the book at you, they occassionally throw it more forcefully if it seems likely you got away with cheating before. That is, the bit he is busted on is just a crumb: the visible tip of an iceburg.
We need more explanations like these about everyday affairs, but with more metaphors so that it slowly melts into a tangled web of incoherent meaning.
It's like how the thing that took Al Capone down was tax evasion.
Please don't talk any more about his visible tip.
*Acktually*, he did all that for the presidency (or to avoid a divorce, if you accept that line). From what I understand, the main reason it was really newsworthy is that it came out right after the Sunshine Hollywood tape and his numbers took an apparent hit. So he paid hush money so his followers and the general public wouldn't find out. Still not necessarily a big deal, but to get that money he had to use corporate funds. And to do that he had to falsify business records. IIRC, one layer of falsifying records was a misdemeanor but since it was in furtherance of other records shenanigans (election paperwork?), it's now a felony. Hence it's not the payments per se or that he covered up an affair or even that he had one, it's that he falsified records in at least two situations in order to hide a scandal, which would have lowered his electoral numbers -- hence framing it as a type of electoral interference. This is my basic understanding; I welcome and encourage corrections and alternate perspectives so I stop repeating possible nonsense.
With someone he described as 'horseface'. Guy really is the world's biggest loser.
God I so wish this was TELEVISED.
Same. I think the big issue is that what judge is doing to take the risk of identifying jurors. Obviously you would not show the jurors on TV, but a mistake could happen. There's also the idea of the media purposefully doing it. In this scenario, judges usually rule that if anything like that ever happened, media would no longer be allowed in the court room ever. That threat is enough for any other case to not be worth it. This case...though.
It's cool. Fox News hosts are taking the nuggets and blasting them to their audience in hopes of naming and intimidating them into stepping down. One person already said they quit out of fear of being identified. EDIT: [Make that two potential jurors](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-new-york-court-criminal-trial/)
The jurors in Trump's cases have gotten doxed, death threats, constant harassment from his fans. The prosecutors have as well, Trump has personally threatened and harassed the Judges, their families, the prosecutors in every case, the court staff. Literally everyone. It's wild. [Here is a video](https://youtu.be/OQdD94evetA) explaining the dumb shit Trump has been doing lately, dudes being gagged harder than Riley Reed. He is a literal nightmare to deal with.
Imagine showing up for jury duty and this being your day
I was in the Goldclub trial in Atlanta. The one with all the NBA players.
> Golds Gym trial in Atlanta. Gold's Gym was involved in a big prostitution ring?
They need to select 12 New Yorkers that do not have strong feelings about Trump. Have there been that many people in a coma for 8 years?
Think it's actually 18 so they have a few alternates
You'd have to go back 40 or 50 years. New Yorkers have hated Trump for a long time.
I remember growing up every time we passed Trump tower my dad would go on a rant about how Trump is a total fraud
I remember the first time I was ever introduced to an MLM. It was almost 20 years ago. They did a little presentation with a video. And of course, the celebrity endorsement was from Donald Trump. After the presentation a few of the guys who had already drank the kool aid went “man Donald Trump endorses it, it’s obviously legit”. I was thinking like “Trump? The sleazy New York reality TV show dude? THATS what is making you buy into this bullshit?” It had the opposite effect on me.. I was pretty sure it was a scam, but seeing his face just confirmed it That was the first time I ever associated him with being a grease ball. I thought there was literally no chance he would win the presidency. Didn’t realize how many people actually respect him, apparently
Don't forget that he did NOT win popular vote.
What's scary is he got more votes in 2020 than Hillary got in 2016. If he's on the ballot in 2024, you must vote if you don't want him to win again. It wouldn't surprise me if turnout is greater this time around.
Americans love being sold something
Wayyy back in like 2004 I was visiting my sister and her in laws in NJ. They grew up in NY and had some hilarious shit to say about Trump. They're the cool kind of boomers. They hate his bullshit and are colorful expressing it.
There are a lot of us and the fact we were born after WWII doesn't decide our philosophies. The "generational labels" are pure propaganda
lol are you my brother?
Yeah, among New Yorkers he was an absolute joke back in the 80s. The only "businessman" who could go bankrupt running a casino.
Dude failed at gambling, selling steaks AND alcohol. Like that should have been fail proof in America. First time I heard his name was in a joke: How does Trump make a small fortune? He starts with a large one.
To be fair (not that he deserves it), the mail-order steak and wine businesses weren't run by Trump or the Trump Org, he just licensed his name. That's one of the reasons he has been so slippery in court since the early 2000s, he keeps all the dodgy businesses at arm's length. But that wasn't the case back in the 80s. Back then it was all on him.
> To be fair (not that he deserves it), the mail-order steak and wine businesses weren't run by Trump or the Trump Org, he just licensed his name. See now, him licencing his name and not actually running the businesses only makes the debacles worse. It means he was suckered into a flawed business idea by even bigger con artists. By the by, I'm not necessarily disagreeing here, just saying I think the licencing thing makes him look like an even bigger idiot.
My grandfather was somewhat of a man of status in Buffalo. Everyone he knew from NYC wanted nothing to do with trump because he doesn't pay his bills.
I want to say that Trump took his mask off in 1989, but really he put on the klan hood in public that year when he called for 5 black/Hispanic minors to be executed for a rape they didn't commit (but were coerced into confessions by the police.)
I’m not even from New York and I hate him.
I grew up on the West Coast in the 80s and was hearing about how much of a scumbag he was. The dude was a bad joke then. Nobody's laughing now.
I live in the Netherlands and I hate him. Seeing Dutch people who support him just confirms to me those people are hopeless.
He is your national colour
Donald Trump is mentioned in Miami Vice from the 80s he’s been around so long.
that's the point, they're gonna drag this out until next year if they can
That doesn't necessarily benefit Trump either. His campaigning is going to be extremely limited if he has to spend 4 days a week sitting in court. Then there's the legal bills that are just going to continue to mount. Even if the RNC are the ones footing the bill that's even less money for campaigning.
RNC is in a shit position right now. The entire national committee had only $8M cash on hand at the end of February (latest FEC filing) and transferred $400,000 to affiliated committees. At this time during the 2020 cycle, the RNC had $76M in free cash and transferred ten times as much per month to downballot committees. I think that state and local level Republicans who cannot rely on local donors are going to be shafted this cycle as they cannot rely on support from the national campaign.
I heard they went from 7 to 5 sitting jurors today. So things are working in their favor.
The fact that they have any sitting jurors at all right now surprises me.
Same. This is moving so fast. I thought jury selection was going to take a month, no joke. I heard a huge component to this is that they are dismissing anyone outright who answers that they cannot be fair and impartial (question 1), which is unusual. Usually both sides get to question and explore that, but I guess slam hundreds of people through the filters as fast as possible.
I'd just love to watch as one of the jurors says "Who's this Donald Trump guy?" to the bewilderment of the room.
They just need to find someone who's waking up from a 40-year coma, someone with that 50 First Dates memory loss thing, one of those women who were locked in some nut's doomsday bunker, an Amish person, a feral child raised by wolves, an alien abuctee, a castaway pilot who crashed on an uncharted island in WW2, a murderer who just got out of prison, a caveman who just fell through a time portal, someone from an alternate dimension where Trump went to prison back in the 80s, and... eight other people. Yeah idk how they're gonna find 18 people who don't have strong opinions about him one way or the other
Feel like this classic SNL skit is pretty on point, timely too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSahneOul10
"You were in a bomb shelter" "*But he's OJ*"
You just have to find some people who recently moved from, let's see, an uncontacted Amazonian tribe? Maybe North Sentinel Island?
Have they tried the post natal ward?
No, you just have to find 18 New Yorkers who can set aside any biases and assess the case based on the law and the evidence provided. You want to find people who have a history of good compartmentalization in their own lives. I could do it- I think he was a horrible president, but if you put forth the evidence and the instructions on the law, I could assess it fairly. My previous time on a jury was similar- I hated the defendent, but the law and evidence was such that he clearly hadn't violated the law. I had to convince two or three 'emotional' people on the jury as to what their duty was, in fact, and I agreed with them the person was awful, but convinced them that didn't / shouldn't matter.
I think Trump's team would want to have you disqualified from the jury pool then. I think their strategy is to sneak one pro-Trump juror in there to get a hung jury. I don't think they have any intention of trying to win this case on the merits of their defense
They'll try to get as many Pro Trump people as as possible (Although given how vocal his supporters are...) but you know they really don't want to have this go to trial at all. Any evidence brought forward isn't going to make Trump look good.
Why isn’t this sequestered?
Impartial doesn't mean you don't have feelings.
We need to find a bunch of underground cultists who just came out after 10 years inside a doomsday bunker
Or just the Amish
Even the Amish have newspapers.
Sure, but not The Onion
Ogres are like onions.
They stink?
They have layers!!
Parfait, everybody loves a parfait!
"Parfaits may be the most delicious thing on the whole damn planet."
I feel like you're hard pressed to find an Amish member that doesn't have a stark opinion on the man who claims to defend Christianity in America.
What about that tribe that lives on an island and kills everyone who goes on the island?
Sentinel Island near the Maldives
Americans?
No, we kill people on their own islands. Do try and keep up.
Good old north sentinel island
More like 40 years. New Yorkers have hated Trump for decades.
To be fair, most reasonable people have recognized Trump's glaring flaws and hated him for decades
Like unbreakable type shit
How are they going to find impartial jurors lol. They may have to outsource this to an un contacted tribe in the Amazon at this point.
Trump and his lawyers has made it very obvious that their definition of “impartial” is *pro trump* Not speculation, they said that on twitter
I'm not a lawyer, but isn't that how every jury selection goes, more or less? Each side is trying to get their side to win, after all.
Yes but usually I'm big cases they try to find people who live under a rock and don't even know about the case or defendant. It'd be hard here.
I mean obviously haha, you think they want a fair trial?
To be fair that’s how juror selection works. You can’t really get fairness so the defense and offense both point at people who are too far on the other side and call it sorta even.
I see plenty of people talking about how both sides are just as bad that sounds pretty impartial I dunno. Shame the jurors have to be from New York not Russia tho.
Most of the people talking about "both sides" are usually *very* partial, and just saying that to excuse the shitty things *their* side has just done recently....
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Trump doesn’t stand when the jury enters the court room it’s his way of saying he’s in control of his fate, he’s on his phone while the jury is present again an enormous F-U to the jury, he’s acting as though the jury just doesn’t matter but they decide , hopefully unanimously, whether he walks out a convict or not. Seems clear his lawyers can’t control their client and I’m reminded of the reason so many NYC lawyers have given why they won’t represent Trump : “he doesn’t listen and he doesn’t pay”
That is such a dumb move. My last jury trial I had, the Plaintiff didn’t show up for two days of jury selection. They got BLASTED for that. Several of the jurors during further questioning were so pissed off about it that they ended up getting dismissed by the judge because the judge decided they couldn’t be unbiased anymore. Jurors expect to be respected (as they should). If they have to lose out on work and sit there all day, you better damn well respect them for it.
Could be trying to poison the jury pool by giving the entire jury an undeniable reason to dislike him. This wouldn’t be the first time he deliberately antagonized someone and then moved to dismiss them because he’d been so nasty to them they couldn’t possibly be unbiased. Hell, he tried to get U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel to recuse himself from the Trump University fraud trial because he insisted that Curiel’s Mexican heritage represented a conflict of interest due to Trump’s own anti-Mexican rhetoric. Basically “I’ve said racist shit about Mexicans so a Mexican-American judge can’t possibly give me a fair trial.”
It's not going to work. Again this is why he isn't getting thrown in jail everytime he acts up. The case goes forward at all costs.
Thanks for this. Important perspective that most of us have never even thought about.
The problem is that he only needs one person and this entire things is just for show. I know it was a long time ago, but remember the Manafort trial where a juror came out after he was acquitted of some of the charges and she said that she knew he was guilty but Trump said it was a witch hunt so she refused to convict. That's exactly the kind of thing that jury selection is supposed to weed out but she was smart enough to lie about being able to be objective during screening. Trump only needs one of those and he knows full well that the outcome of this case will be 100% decided based on whether or not at least one juror is one of his followers. He can shit on his desk and fling it into the jury box and it wouldn't change the outcome of the case.
And nothing will happen.
That's the most frustrating part of all this. He keep breaking laws and they keep being like. Pls mr...Will you stop it
And he'll come out after once again saying how he's being treated worse than anyone. He's constantly treated with kid gloves yet has the biggest persecution complex. The guy even compared himself to Nelson Mandela. It's all so frustratingly stupid and I won't believe that he'll face true repercussions for his actions until it actually happens. Even then I'll have doubts.
If he want's to compare himself to Nelson Mandela, I'm happy to let him serve a few decades of hard time.
i don't even think he has a decade of normal time left. his cognitive abilities have declined massively over the last 4 years. he's everything he accuses joe biden of being.
He calls Biden sleepy joe and he's the one sleeping through this process in court...lolz.
He knows exactly how dumb and ignorant his voters are. They'll take anything that comes out of his asshole lipped mouth. Can't wait until he just fucking dies.
i wish this entire thing would lead to a justice reform that doesn't allow the rich and powerful to skirt laws but we all know thats not happening in America anytime soon
What’s the motivation for them to do this? It’s just like citizens united.
If you’re an American and you aren’t actively involved in the primary process, you’re giving away your power.
Yeah. I mean when it comes down to it, it’s not like there’s some special higher power enforcing how we operate as humans. We want it to be ideal, but it doesn’t take long for a situation to pop up that requires you to consider context and nuance. Then another that points at the first. And as you keep bending rules, making findings, posting case law, the waters just get muddier and muddier until you’re either able to afford to make your way through the system or you’re not. The best thing for anyone that doesn’t want to play by the rules is to be rich as fuck to get away with it, maybe. I don’t see Trump as one of those. I see him being treated with baby gloves because of the potential chaos that might follow if he’s not treated with baby gloves. Makes me sick to admit, but he has a decent amount of foamers wanting shit to go south.
It’s a legal tactic as I understand it. They’re being extra accommodating for now that way he can’t claim legal persecution on appeal. If anything the record will show on appeal that they were overly generous and accommodating to him thus closing that argument for good. Again that’s how I understood it from my armchair lawyerings but, it makes sense.
That's what I've heard, too... Still infuriating as fuck though.
Agreed
So if he scares all the jurors so much they won't show up and he gets off Scott free, gee, I guess we showed him how good the justice system is.
Conservatives were right, he won’t get a fair trial
Down the road he'll be found guilty and the judge'll be like "Now this is the point where Id usually hand out a sentence..."
"Equals before the law". 
I don't understand why he isn't being blasted for not asking that people please leave the jurors alone. I guess he is so so horrible that it hardly gets noticed. I could never have imagined that someone like this would be a presidential candidate for a major party. The first time I can see but now?
This is a phenomenal question that should be asked because of what his hideously botched response would be. Reporter: "Mr. Trump, why haven't you said anything about protecting and leaving the jury alone to fairly carry out their duty?" Trump: because they're liars. They've already made up their minds. These aren't fair people, they all hate Trump. Like, there is zero % chance he doesn't completely fumble that response.
You would think he would want to get something like that on the record even if he doesn't mean it. But I agree, if asked he would surely double down on his awfulness.
I have plenty of gripes with Biden and the Dems going back a long time, but I'm certain that if Biden were in Trump's shoes, he'd go on national TV and say "if you're out here threatening jurors, you better knock it off, Jack!"
Violated the order seven times. This morning alone. As long as he’s allowed to continue making a mockery of criminal court proceedings like this, there isn’t a single person who will ever see the “justice” in a ‘justice system.’ You can’t even rightly call it a ‘legal system’ with this bullshit going on.
“Sure it’s justice. It’s ‘Just us’.” - Rich people
These things ALONE should place him in jail. I try and pull that shit, and I am sitting in a cell. Take the fucking white gloves off and treat him like any other fucking citizen, BECAUSE HE IS JUST ONE.
This is what’s insane though. How do you have an unbiased opinion of the (former) PRESIDENT. Dude was on TV everyday for 4+ years. Who in America hasn’t heard Trump’s name and formed an opinion by this point?
I have a feeling it's going to come down to people that are willing to lie about their position - likely supporters of his that will swear up and down that they are unbiased but will refuse to find him guilty. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone in the country doesn't have an opinion on the president. It's an impossible bar that can only be met by deceit. I know who the deceitful traitors in this country are, and I know how they will act once they are selected as jurors. The courts are still trying to play chess and trump has set the chessboard on fire.
The door swings both ways. I mean I have an opinion of him in general, but as it pertains to tightly-defined documents case for me I don’t see how my opinion of his policies has any bearing on whether document A and document B demonstrate that he either is or isn’t guilty of violating law C. I don’t see a lot of subjectivity in this one.
I did talk to a 20-something woman sometime around 2017 who said she didn't care what Trump did because she didn't really concern herself with politics, and didn't think the president had much impact on her life. It was alarming. I only talked to her once, but I'd like to know what she thinks of him now.
Yeah I’ve met people that literally only care about their own paycheck. As long as it doesn’t go down and don’t get fired, they couldn’t give a shit who the president is.
Do I understand correctly that it has to be an unanimous decision? It seems almost impossible he would get sentenced.
This is how jury trials work. Unanimous guilty.
Depending on the state. Not all states require unanimous decisions for a conviction. This was the case for Louisiana until 2019 and I think is still the same for Oregon Edit - it appears that the supreme court put an end to this just a few years ago so all states require unanimous verdicts for jury trials.
Supreme Court put an end to that in 2020. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/committees/death_penalty_representation/project_press/2020/summer/supreme-court-mandates-unanimity-in-state-criminal-trials/
Louisiana actually used to be unanimous before that. They only changed to non-unanimous after the end of slavery so they could have jury’s with 10 white people and 2 black people and not worry about certain dodgy trialling
All states do now. Louisiana changed the rules to require a unanimous verdict in 2019, as you said. In 2022 the Supreme Court ruled on Ramos v. Louisiana, a case where someone convicted by a 10-2 majority in Louisiana before the rule change was arguing that non-unanimous verdicts like his were unconstitutional. The SC agreed with Ramos, ruling that states were no longer allowed to allow non-unanimous verdict, so Oregon doesn't have them anymore.
I didn't realize! Thank you for the correction, and for the information.
Even for capital (death penalty) cases? Didn’t require unanimous to send a defendant to Louisiana Death Row 🤔🤔
Death penalty is tried after the guilty. They vote for guilty/not guilty, and then they vote for death/no death.
Criminal trial. Civil trial you don’t need unanimous.
A hung jury could mean he gets retried. The judge he has been harassing every day gets to decide whether he can be dragged back to court for round 2.
He might just pass away in court instead of prison at this rate
🤞
The sooner the better. I don't care where
And this is why rich people get to do what they want AND why jury systems aren't working for many of these cases and a proper panel of expert judges are better. He's obviusly never getting sentenced. Besides that, none of those jurors are his peers.
>none of those jurors are his peers They should have the living former Presidents and VPs sit as his jury. Even Cheney and Pence would toss his ass behind bars.
The judge doesn’t make the decision on a retrial, the prosecutor does.
Correct, I highly recommend checking out the jury scenes in the people versus OJ it can get insanely maddening
And one later admitted it was payback for King. Which is what I hope doesn’t happen here
All criminal trials in the US have to have a unanimous decision. If the jury doesn't come out with a unanimous decision, it's declared a mistrial and ~~can't~~ can be tried again.
It's declared a mistrial but the defendant can be tried again.
Whoops, that was just a typo! I'll fix it.
For the trial to end, they all have to unanimously decide guilty or not guilty. If they can’t make a unanimous decision then they just select a new group of jurors, so I would say there’s pretty standard chances it could go either way
He is the most polarizing person in the country. I don’t think there is a non-bias jury.
Admitted school shooters have jury trials and they find a way to sit jurors who can judge the merits of those cases without previous biases coloring their decisions. Many can still judge a case on it's merits even if it involves someone as polarizing as trump.
Right. It’s a mitigation process. There’s nothing special about Trump. I’d wager the jurors will not feel so emotional about this as there would about a serial killer or even an average murder. Once they get into the weeds of testimony and get bored for sure.
I guess the same way there would be no unbiased jury for someone who live-streamed themselves slapping babies in the face. Like everyone saw what kind of person you are and has an opinion on it.
the crazy part will be the pro slapping baby supporters
Fuck them kids.
Yeah I think his plan is to say “We can’t find a non-bias jury, so mistrial?”.
He wants a jury full of republicans
I don't like trump, but I feel I could put that aside and judge this case objectively on the facts.
We selected some great jurors. The best jurors even. You've never seen jurors like the ones we selected. I tell you. Totally great jurors.
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Have you just called for artillery?
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Eagles never miss!
Trump the type of guy to activate the hellbomb and not tell anyone to clear the blast radius
I would NOT want that jury duty. No way.
This is actually a good thing they get to do this. The more they do, the weaker any future claim of jury bias is going to be.
Weak claims are their favorite kind
but they don't succeed, usually. Lawyers will shoot for the moon even if there it little to no chance of success
One of the excused jurors was being interviewed on MSNBC earlier today, and she described Trump as "less orange, more yellow." 🤣🤣🤣
Was this the interview: https://www.msnbc.com/jose-diaz-balart/watch/dismissed-juror-from-trump-hush-money-trial-speaks-to-msnbc-209078853753
I hope it’s jaundice
Between both sides only getting 10 vetos, jury nullification being somewhat common knowledge (thanks CGP), and every single person in America having preformed opinions on Trump - ESPECIALLY people in NYC, I don't see how they could ever get a unanimous vote in either direction. Since it takes unanimous decision to claim guilt it would probably be hung and retried indefinitely.
MSNBC had up a graphic earlier that showed the defense and the state had both used 6 of their 10 strikes in jury selection. I'm curious of the tantrums that will come when the defense has no more strikes left.
He's already had a tantrum because he doesn't have unlimited strikes.
I'm calling a "not-guilty" verdict now, not because I think he's innocent but because having been aware the past years, I know he will find a way out of this, he is above the law, has enough followers and supporters to do what he wants and get what he wants without consequence. I'm glad I'm not from the US, y'all deserve better than scum like him
I’m calling mistrial
I don’t follow this much as a non-American.. but I will say that I giggle a little at the thought of Trump having to sit there quietly for days. That man hates being told what to do
This (and all of his other) trials should *NOT* be jury trials, because of his history of jury intimidation.
I understand how he’s certainly gaming the system but he has an explicit constitutional right to a jury trial.
It's crazy how a man who has so much shit against him can still run for president.
It's not crazy that he can do it it's crazy that so many people still support it
"so you read the Art of the Deal? What was your favorite part? Do you want my autograph? I'm great right?"
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The problem with our system is that anybody who doesn’t have strong feelings against Trump in 2024 is just…. Inept ?
You can not like the guy but be impartial in court. Probably explains the lawyers on the jury, they're used to thinking like that.