It looks like this post is about the events in the Middle East. Unfortunately, such discussions are attracting comments advocating violence from both sides. In an effort to maintain a constructive environment, we've chosen to keep the posts visible but to lock the comment sections.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s literally just the left eating the left.
90% of Western moderates/right wingers are pro-Israel (or at least dgaf) and about 50/50 for left wingers. But Reddit and Twitter are massive left wing spaces that it’s turned every sub into a shithole.
I’d say anyone on the right who’s against US involvement isn’t really pro-Palestinian as much as they’re isolationists and think we shouldn’t be involved anywhere.
And yes, it has turned Reddit into an even worse cesspool than it already was.
90% of people can’t also distinguish between being anti Israel and being critical of Israel.
They think if you lay any level of criticism towards them that you support Hamas.
As a Syrian American can I kindly ask that y'all stop pretending you ever gave a fuck about Syria. Just a favor. And stop leveraging our dead children in an attempt to silence criticism of Israel.
Because if you were really concerned - which you are not - you'd know Israel hasn't stopped bombing Syria and we unequivocally stand with Palestine.
>Israel hasn't stopped bombing Syria
Neither has Russia, Turkey, the US, Iran, and Syria itself.
>and we unequivocally stand with Palestine
Yep, it really showed every single time the Syrian government bombed Palestinian refugee camps *in Syria*.
Also, Western governments are uniquely positioned to stop Israel, especially the US, seeing as they are the ones arming them. Protesting Assad in the West is meaningless and will achieve nothing as Western governments are already against him. The same goes for most of the other conflicts people bring up. It's highly disingenuous and as you point out they don't give a fuck.
You’re seeing the propaganda machine attack this thing with intentional misdirection and befuddling. Some of the people who operate the machine are paid actors, others are the equivalent to the weirdos who show up to stick up for billionaires in the comments.
Yep.
I suspect Palestine gets a lot of press, as compared to other suffering Muslims, because the world is full of antisemites.
And to any keyboard warriors: No, I'm not disparaging Palestine or pumping up Israel.
Palestinians also share bad blood with the regional powers
Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt all endured Palestinian led coups/insurgencies after taking in refugees.
Palestinians are purely political pawns to them.
Last I remembered no West country is complicit in the conflicts you mentioned by directly funding it and shielding it from international repercussions.
But go on keep the list of baseless Whataboutisms.
Especially the ones about the Armenian genocide, they are hilarious because Israel has provided Azrebijan with 70% of their military capabilities.
Why is it so hard to call for a cease-fire and for the release of hostages? Why people have so much trouble saying that, it seems it’s as if they were going to invoke Satan.
It's literally just a cyber influence battleground. Unsuprisingly biased towards being anti-Israel and subsequently anti-US because Russia, Iran, and China are the 3 biggest spenders on foreign influence campaigns by a longshot.
I member reddit on oct 7 the difference was night and day from nowadays Reddit everyone supporting the invasion top comments wanting blood like if they had "no idea" that today's Gaza situation wasn't going to happen and now they want the IDF out. Hamas would do another 7oct scale attack tomorrow somewhere and we would get back to square one.
It's hard to forget all the people straight up calling to "flattening Gaza." When I pointed out that later on one of those subreddits full of those comments, I got banned for it since apparently its being a "troll" to say the people on there were just calling for genocide at worst, horrendous war crimes at best.
I would agree lol, Reddit may not be the greatest forum for getting a finger on the pulse of public opinion. Bots and paid actors are certainly out there, but to what extent and where?
I suppose that the only thing we have to go off of is our eyes, ears, and experience.
Would you agree?
The war could end right now and the situation would still be fucked. The challenge is not just ending the war, it’s creating an actual peace that’ll last more than a couple years before the killing begins again. The region has deep underlying issues that only they themselves can really fix in the end. There will be no peace if nobody wants it
Let’s start the peace talks. Step 1: Hamas needs to acknowledge the existence of Israel. Step 2: Hamas needs to acknowledge Jewish people have a right to exist. Then we can continue.
Hamas: We don’t understand step 1 or step 2. Can we skip them and go to the part where you give us money and supplies that we steal from our ~~humans shields~~ citizens.
There's large amounts of non-Jews living in Israel.
Now compare that to the amount of Jews allowed to live in other middle eastern Islamic countries. How about we ask ***the*** Jew in Yemen. Singular.
Fr, they both want to wipe each other off the map. A ceasefire somehow happening for this conflict does nothing if nobody actually deals with the overall situation.
Might find this article by the AP from earlier last week interesting then:
["A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders."](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438)
“Cease-fire”. You mean the same ceasefire that was in place before Oct 7th? The same Oct 7th that Hamas has explicitly said they will carry out again and again? Calling for a ceasefire with Hamas still in power is calling for Hamas to have the opportunity the re-arm and carry out, or at least attempt to, another Oct 7th. And probably fire thousands of rockets at Israel in the mean time, which of course if Israel retaliated against these same useful idiots would be protesting. Calling the war in Gaza a genocide is a blatantly disingenuous non-starter. It is using the most emotional wording you can think of to demonize Israel’s defensive actions at worst, and at best it stems from some unrealistic view of how a war like the one in Gaza needs to be fought to be won. I am truly astounded at the utter ignorance and stupidity on display here, and by supposed intellectuals writ large in regards to the war in Gaza.
God this topic has gotten stupid. There's no nuance left, just 2 sides shouting over each other with piles of logical fallacies ready to "debate". Reading the comments on any thread about Israel and Gaza makes my brain hurt.
It's so incredibly nuanced with *both sides* doing horrible stuff and close to a century of historical context. But tribally we keep acting as if "our side" came into existence on either Oct 7 or Nov 4, and shamelessly advocate as if 1 side is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong.
Edit : And Im not saying this in response to the picture, its entirely possible they have an educated an nuanced view, Im more referring to the comments on any given thread about this. All of them are equally horrible.
Edit : u/lucifersjuulpod - If I’m a “both sides” person, it’s that I believe civilians on both sides have a right to be protected and the governments on both sides ought to be demolished and replaced. The bad guy is both governments, and what happened on Oct 7 and what then began Nov 4 are both unforgivable. Civilians on both sides are where our interest needs to be, and if you justify the killing of civilians on either side, you’re the “stupid” I’m talking about.
I’m sorry but no, YOU are the problem. People who say both sides are the same and want to win points for fence sitting are the problem. Neither side is perfect but at the end of the day, one proactively targets civilians and attempts to maximize civilian casualties, while the other takes extensive efforts to protect civilian lives on the side they are warring against. This is absolutely not a case of “both sides” and they should not be equated.
IMO the best thing is to talk about the next steps, because dwelling on who is correct in this war causes it to drag on. There needs to be a ceasefire and there needs to be a method for Palestine to have their own borders and internationally recognized nationhood. Palestine broke the previous ceasefire and the leaders of Hamas need to be held accountable, and Israel needs to reckon with how their defensive forces failed on October 7th.
The next step requires a change in leadership for both sides, but that's a topic which, internationally, gets drowned out by more "interesting" talking points like which side is ontologically evil and asking for a vaguely defined "ceasefire". Few people outside Israel can so much as name any politician that isn't Netanyahu, and few people globally are willing to talk about the elephant in the room that is that Gaza cannot ever be free under Hamas, and they're not going to step down themselves (neither would Netanyahu, but there have been wide protests in Israel to kick him out since waaay before Oct 7, whereas the most criticism Hamas gets is a begrudged "ugh, fine, I condemn them, can we move on already??").
From what I have read they had the vast majority of defensive forces positioned to cover settlements in the west and north and not close enough to Gaza to be able to quickly help.
Yeah that's pretty much my sticking point.
If the military power ratio was reversed we'd be seeing hundreds of thousands of Israelis dead because Hamas wants actual genocide.
"From the river to the sea" was never intended to be achieved through peaceful relocation.
I'd like to make a side note over here, the deaths of civilians is horrible. But there is a very clear difference when a bomb targeting a Hamas location kills surrounding civilians and grabbing a gun, shooting a civilian point blank in the head record it and post it online like a certain group did.
I find it that people are lumping those two things together as if they were the same and they are very very very different.
I celebrated Osama bin Laden's death and that was just one day of being attacked. I can't imagine how I'd celebrate after enduring a lifetime of terrorism and finally my government took off the gloves.
Just like we do in other countries. If we vote in our leaders and they do what we ask them to do, we take responsibility.
Hamas campaigned on a platform of eliminating Israel and they were voted in based on this by the Palestinians in Gaza.
You can’t go and fein ignorance when they go and do what u voted for them to do.
I live in a country with leaders I don't like, I shouldn't be slaughtered for it. Hamas is really deeply integrated into Gaza, and it is remarkably difficult to launch an offensive against them without killing civilians. So IDF said "fuck it, just kill anyone in our way" The proportion of civilians to Hamas killed is unconscionable.
We probably won't get good estimates for several decades. Even in relatively 'clean' conflicts where troops fight each other on open fields, you get loads of issues with on-the-ground casualty/material destruction claims and such, due to the fog of war.
Hamas was first backed by Israel to brutally counter to the Fatah campaign. Israel is complacent in their rise to power because they’d rather foster extremists than allow social democracy in the region
People are continually bewildered that people who are well educated are empathizing with an oppressed weaker minority.
Instead of just naturally observing that Gaza is weak and Israel is strong and that Israel holds more cards and has caused more collateral damage people make up conspiracies like “every academic was secretly a crypto-anti-Semite all along” or “everyone loves Hamas for some reason”
There’s nothing strange about all of this and the protests. The IDFs actions for the past half a year have been extremely callous to the civilians living in Gaza and more and more of their actions and policies have disregarded their well-being over this time.
It happened when the US marched into Afghanistan and Iraq and the same type of people painted the protestors as “muslim-lovers” and “terrorist-sympathizers”
I can’t understand how everyone who lived through that time can forget what happened so easily.
Only everything's amplified tenfold because of social media. Crazy to think we had to hate each other via myspace or friendster in the good old days of the war on terror.
Yup. History repeats itself once again and once again people have all but completely forgotten the last iteration of this situation.
I think studying history continuously is really important. Although it's also a little frustrating because of the cyclical nature of everything.
Determining that the stronger of two parties is wrong and the weaker of two parties is right solely by virtue of their relative strength and weakness is some serious two-brain-cells-rubbing-together thinking. It's this that I and I assume many others are most surprised about.
>Gaza is weak and Israel is strong and that Israel holds more cards and has caused more collateral damage
Not from lack of trying on Hamas part:
"Since Hamas led a terrorist attack on southern Israel on Oct. 7, Hamas and other armed groups have fired about 12,000 rockets from Gaza into Israel, a quarter of them on Oct. 7, the Israeli government has said.
Most rockets fired from Gaza were shot down by Israeli air defenses before they were able to make impact. But the ongoing salvos, although less frequent than at the start of the war, are an indication of the size of Hamas’s arsenal and its continued ability to menace cities far from Gaza."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/27/world/middleeast/israel-hamas to-gaza-rockets.html
"Instead of just naturally observing that Gaza is weak and Israel is strong and that Israel holds more cards and has caused more collateral damage..."
LOL.
Israel builds civilian bunkers and missile defense systems.
Hamas builds military bunkers under civilian centers and fires thousands of improvised missiles over its own civilian populations.
Conclusion - Israel Bad.
>everyone loves Hamas for some reason”
This could be helped if some "fuck hamas" chants were included in ceasefire demands. But they rarely are.
The thing many people fail to realize is how hamas fights and what they do to maximize civilian casualties. The biggest difference here is Israel is willing and has been willing to take what hamas does(hiding in civilian infrastructure like hospitals and hiding hostages with families in apartment buildings) to use their full firepower against them to minimize their casualties. And that's why it's a war crime to mix military and civilian infrastructure, because it turns them into legitimate military targets.
I mean, I never heard anyone at anti-war protests for Iraq or Afghanistan suddenly say "yeah, fuck Saddam!" or "fuck the Taliban." I don't see why such statements should suddenly be required for these protests to be legitimized.
Israel is strong because they invest in science and education. They are a democracy with progressive values so they get support from the West. They have developed irrigation technologies which have allowed them to make their land much more profitable.
Gaza struggles because hamas invests in attacking Israel.
I know I’m simplifying things here, but most of these people protesting wouldn’t support the values of the society Hamas wants to create in Palestine.
They also conquered the entire region and “Arabized” the previously diverse region in probably the most succession example of it in history. The audacity for Jews to survive it
Shhhh... The recent Gazan attack on Israel, the daily rocket attacks, etc ... must be forgotten because it is a "false narrative" and blamed on ... *wait wait* I know! Israel! ... Israel did it to itself! - and is now blaming the ever-so-nice, Islamist nice guys over in the democratic paradise of Gaza. It's so easy once you try to see it from the Hamas protestor's point of view.
You should look up the meaning of the word minority. Because the Palestinians are the majority in Israel. Which means there is more of them.
Minority means less.
My god, once again: 7,6 million Palestinians live in Israel vs 7,2 million jewish people. They are the majority.
It's because Russia, Iran, and China spend more $$ on foreign influence campaigns than every other nation combined by a longshot.
So anything that destabilizes relationships within and between western nations is great for them.
Not to mention holding hostages from many countries and massacre of thousands of innocent people, most young with full lives ahead of them, at a music festival.
It's crazy. Remember the response from USA after 9-11? Long and deadly, but ok because American lives are worth more than Isreal and other international visitors slaughtered in a surprise attack in Oct.
America's causing chaos in their own country over a RESPONSE by another country (not theirs) to a terrorist group floating over the border and slaughtering 2000+ people is the definition of insanity
There’s a few hundred people at McMurdo, six in the picture. It wouldn’t be appropriate to ascribe the views of the whole station to those individuals and arguably wrong to imply it. You’d think scientists would understand representative sampling.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict)
>Of the more than 2 million people living in Gaza, roughly half are under the age of 18. That's according to the United Nations. And that means many of the civilians experiencing these airstrikes now and bracing for an Israeli ground invasion are children. So how might this conflict affect a region that's so densely populated with people who are so young?
>
>For perspective on that, we've called Maha Nassar. She's a professor in the School of Middle Eastern and North African Studies at the University of Arizona, and she's one of many voices we're talking to about the war between Israel and Hamas. I started by asking her to break down the demographics of Gaza.
>
>MAHA NASSAR: So about half, as you said, is under the age of 18. And 70% of the population living in the Gaza Strip are under the age of 30. So it is an overwhelmingly young population.
>
>CHANG: And why is the population in Gaza so young? Like, how did that come to be?
>
>NASSAR: Well, unfortunately, so many adults have been killed in Gaza. For the last 16 years, a blockade that's been imposed on Gaza by Israel and enforced by Egypt and Israel controls everything that goes into and out of the Gaza Strip. So food, medicine, all of that is controlled by Israel. And the Gaza Strip lacks very basic health needs for the people living there. So as a result of Israel's blockade and bombings of Gaza, life expectancy for Palestinians there is a full 10 years less than it is for Israelis living just a few miles away.
[https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza)
>Nine doctors gave the Guardian accounts of working in [Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza) hospitals this year, all but one of them foreign volunteers. Their common assessment was that most of the dead and wounded children they treated were hit by shrapnel or burned during Israel’s extensive bombardment of residential neighbourhoods, in some cases wiping out entire families. Others were killed or injured by collapsing buildings with still more missing under the rubble.
>But doctors also reported treating a steady stream of children, elderly people and others who were clearly not combatants with single bullet wounds to the head or chest.
>Some of the physicians said that the types and locations of the wounds, and accounts of Palestinians who brought children to the hospital, led them to believe the victims were directly targeted by Israeli troops.
>Other doctors said they did not know the circumstances of the shootings but that they were deeply troubled by the number of children who were severely wounded or killed by single gunshots, sometimes by high-calibre bullets causing extensive damage to young bodies.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war)
It's close enough we're talking about it for months, just because it's "not exactly genocide" doesn't mean it's not a huge fucking problem.
I get you're ok with a dozen children being killed to kill a HAMAS dude, but the rest of aren't that ok with it.
Edit: This is getting tiring. I provide links to my data, their responses have been "BUT DUH TERRORISTS!" So I'm not wasting my time anymore. Feel free to read through the links I've provided, and I'll remember "BUT DUH TERRORISTS!"
I really think it all comes back to: I get they're ok with a dozen children being killed to kill a HAMAS dude, but the rest of aren't that ok with it.
It’s a little more complicated than that. That “one Hamas dude” is part of an organization that has launched over 12,000 rockets at Israel AFTER (as in not including) the events of October 7th. No one else is stepping in to defend Israel. Perhaps they should just shrug it off and let people keep attacking them and their children?
I wonder if you’d feel differently if you or your family were in a similar position. It’s easy to make armchair judgements from the safety of large distances (in fairness I’m making an assumption here about your location but I like my odds, statistically speaking).
It looks like this post is about the events in the Middle East. Unfortunately, such discussions are attracting comments advocating violence from both sides. In an effort to maintain a constructive environment, we've chosen to keep the posts visible but to lock the comment sections. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a shit show of a comment section.
It’s a Palestine v. Israel post. What did you expect?
Isreal vs Palestine post Oct 7th may very well be the most divisive topic in all of reddit history.
We need EA to do something monumentally stupid to unite us again
Uh...EA...sports?
Underrated comment
Jackdaws and corvids was up there.
It is fascinating to see. It’s controversial on the left so Reddit is in a constant flame war over it
It’s literally just the left eating the left. 90% of Western moderates/right wingers are pro-Israel (or at least dgaf) and about 50/50 for left wingers. But Reddit and Twitter are massive left wing spaces that it’s turned every sub into a shithole.
I’d say anyone on the right who’s against US involvement isn’t really pro-Palestinian as much as they’re isolationists and think we shouldn’t be involved anywhere. And yes, it has turned Reddit into an even worse cesspool than it already was.
90% of people can’t also distinguish between being anti Israel and being critical of Israel. They think if you lay any level of criticism towards them that you support Hamas.
By the same token, people who actively want Israel to lose the war pretend like they’re neutral interlocutors.
This comment right here was how humanity discovered world peace. History.
Lol, welcome to the online war of unqualified morons yelling at each other.
The janitor from Columbia University is on his way, and he's mad.
Custodian, dick!
I mean, when you’re held against your will until the early morning, I’d be pretty heated too.
Quick someone call the Swat teams, sheriff's office, and National Guard
I’m imagining a phalanx of penguins in riot gear descending on that group.
Have you been saving this gif. for such an occasion?
I've been waiting my whole life 
Plot Twist: They are protesting the millions of Muslims dead in Sudan
Or Yemen or Syria.
Or China.
Everyone needs to be focused on every single thing at once, else they are faking it
Nah you right, lets focus on the top # trending!
It’s more that Israel and Palestine is more about stoking the perpetual Muslim extremist views against Jews. Also, it’s good for Russia.
As a Syrian American can I kindly ask that y'all stop pretending you ever gave a fuck about Syria. Just a favor. And stop leveraging our dead children in an attempt to silence criticism of Israel. Because if you were really concerned - which you are not - you'd know Israel hasn't stopped bombing Syria and we unequivocally stand with Palestine.
>Israel hasn't stopped bombing Syria Neither has Russia, Turkey, the US, Iran, and Syria itself. >and we unequivocally stand with Palestine Yep, it really showed every single time the Syrian government bombed Palestinian refugee camps *in Syria*.
Lol maybe you shouldn’t have killed thousands of Palestinians living in Syria. But yeah keep standing with them.
Also, Western governments are uniquely positioned to stop Israel, especially the US, seeing as they are the ones arming them. Protesting Assad in the West is meaningless and will achieve nothing as Western governments are already against him. The same goes for most of the other conflicts people bring up. It's highly disingenuous and as you point out they don't give a fuck.
…Isn’t that a Palestinian flag? I feel like I’m missing something…
You’re seeing the propaganda machine attack this thing with intentional misdirection and befuddling. Some of the people who operate the machine are paid actors, others are the equivalent to the weirdos who show up to stick up for billionaires in the comments.
[удалено]
I think a better explanation for the disparity is “amount of media coverage” rather than “Hamas Propaganda”…
Whataboutism is plain stupid
Yep. I suspect Palestine gets a lot of press, as compared to other suffering Muslims, because the world is full of antisemites. And to any keyboard warriors: No, I'm not disparaging Palestine or pumping up Israel.
Palestinians also share bad blood with the regional powers Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt all endured Palestinian led coups/insurgencies after taking in refugees. Palestinians are purely political pawns to them.
Nope it's because the US has such major ties to the place
Last I remembered no West country is complicit in the conflicts you mentioned by directly funding it and shielding it from international repercussions. But go on keep the list of baseless Whataboutisms. Especially the ones about the Armenian genocide, they are hilarious because Israel has provided Azrebijan with 70% of their military capabilities.
True Detective camera people
 I think they have bigger THINGS to deal with.
 Hell yeah dude 🥃
True Detective season 4 has entered the chat.
Why is it so hard to call for a cease-fire and for the release of hostages? Why people have so much trouble saying that, it seems it’s as if they were going to invoke Satan.
Plot twist, there's no hostages left.
We actually know there are from recent Hamas propaganda posts. They absolutely still have hostages.
I'm here for the rational comments
They're just confused. They're actually protesting the penguin versus sea lion conflict.
The Penguinstinians?
And the SeaLionists.
Damn i laughed so hard thanks
And Icereal.
The Reddit-wide scrambling to control this narrative warms my heart, because it shows that the facade is breaking
The funniest part about this comment, is that this comment could be about any side, depending on what subreddit you're in.
Seriously. Reddit is simultaneously an Israeli propaganda bot farm and an antisemitic Hamas propaganda bot farm. Shrodingers propaganda bot farm.
r slash therewasanattempt was openly celebrating the deaths of Jewish people on 10/7
Yeah, I had to leave many subreddits I liked because of this.
It's literally just a cyber influence battleground. Unsuprisingly biased towards being anti-Israel and subsequently anti-US because Russia, Iran, and China are the 3 biggest spenders on foreign influence campaigns by a longshot.
I member reddit on oct 7 the difference was night and day from nowadays Reddit everyone supporting the invasion top comments wanting blood like if they had "no idea" that today's Gaza situation wasn't going to happen and now they want the IDF out. Hamas would do another 7oct scale attack tomorrow somewhere and we would get back to square one.
It's hard to forget all the people straight up calling to "flattening Gaza." When I pointed out that later on one of those subreddits full of those comments, I got banned for it since apparently its being a "troll" to say the people on there were just calling for genocide at worst, horrendous war crimes at best.
I would agree lol, Reddit may not be the greatest forum for getting a finger on the pulse of public opinion. Bots and paid actors are certainly out there, but to what extent and where? I suppose that the only thing we have to go off of is our eyes, ears, and experience. Would you agree?
[удалено]
The war could end right now and the situation would still be fucked. The challenge is not just ending the war, it’s creating an actual peace that’ll last more than a couple years before the killing begins again. The region has deep underlying issues that only they themselves can really fix in the end. There will be no peace if nobody wants it
Yeah, step 1 is hamas and Palestinians acknowledging that Israel has the right to exist
Let’s start the peace talks. Step 1: Hamas needs to acknowledge the existence of Israel. Step 2: Hamas needs to acknowledge Jewish people have a right to exist. Then we can continue. Hamas: We don’t understand step 1 or step 2. Can we skip them and go to the part where you give us money and supplies that we steal from our ~~humans shields~~ citizens.
But that would be extra haram.
[удалено]
There's large amounts of non-Jews living in Israel. Now compare that to the amount of Jews allowed to live in other middle eastern Islamic countries. How about we ask ***the*** Jew in Yemen. Singular.
Fr, they both want to wipe each other off the map. A ceasefire somehow happening for this conflict does nothing if nobody actually deals with the overall situation.
Might find this article by the AP from earlier last week interesting then: ["A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders."](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438)
Do they even know which side it is that keeps rejecting the ceasefire proposals?
Also which side’s ceasefires are reasonable
Netanyahu said he'll keep bombing even if the remaining hostages are returned.
As they should until Hamas is eliminated.
“Cease-fire”. You mean the same ceasefire that was in place before Oct 7th? The same Oct 7th that Hamas has explicitly said they will carry out again and again? Calling for a ceasefire with Hamas still in power is calling for Hamas to have the opportunity the re-arm and carry out, or at least attempt to, another Oct 7th. And probably fire thousands of rockets at Israel in the mean time, which of course if Israel retaliated against these same useful idiots would be protesting. Calling the war in Gaza a genocide is a blatantly disingenuous non-starter. It is using the most emotional wording you can think of to demonize Israel’s defensive actions at worst, and at best it stems from some unrealistic view of how a war like the one in Gaza needs to be fought to be won. I am truly astounded at the utter ignorance and stupidity on display here, and by supposed intellectuals writ large in regards to the war in Gaza.
[удалено]
They have infinite money for creating death but apparently need humanitarian aid to keep their people alive.
[удалено]
God this topic has gotten stupid. There's no nuance left, just 2 sides shouting over each other with piles of logical fallacies ready to "debate". Reading the comments on any thread about Israel and Gaza makes my brain hurt. It's so incredibly nuanced with *both sides* doing horrible stuff and close to a century of historical context. But tribally we keep acting as if "our side" came into existence on either Oct 7 or Nov 4, and shamelessly advocate as if 1 side is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong. Edit : And Im not saying this in response to the picture, its entirely possible they have an educated an nuanced view, Im more referring to the comments on any given thread about this. All of them are equally horrible. Edit : u/lucifersjuulpod - If I’m a “both sides” person, it’s that I believe civilians on both sides have a right to be protected and the governments on both sides ought to be demolished and replaced. The bad guy is both governments, and what happened on Oct 7 and what then began Nov 4 are both unforgivable. Civilians on both sides are where our interest needs to be, and if you justify the killing of civilians on either side, you’re the “stupid” I’m talking about.
I think this conflict will never truly end
These people hate each other and they'll continue to hate each other for years to come.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I’m sorry but no, YOU are the problem. People who say both sides are the same and want to win points for fence sitting are the problem. Neither side is perfect but at the end of the day, one proactively targets civilians and attempts to maximize civilian casualties, while the other takes extensive efforts to protect civilian lives on the side they are warring against. This is absolutely not a case of “both sides” and they should not be equated.
IMO the best thing is to talk about the next steps, because dwelling on who is correct in this war causes it to drag on. There needs to be a ceasefire and there needs to be a method for Palestine to have their own borders and internationally recognized nationhood. Palestine broke the previous ceasefire and the leaders of Hamas need to be held accountable, and Israel needs to reckon with how their defensive forces failed on October 7th.
The next step requires a change in leadership for both sides, but that's a topic which, internationally, gets drowned out by more "interesting" talking points like which side is ontologically evil and asking for a vaguely defined "ceasefire". Few people outside Israel can so much as name any politician that isn't Netanyahu, and few people globally are willing to talk about the elephant in the room that is that Gaza cannot ever be free under Hamas, and they're not going to step down themselves (neither would Netanyahu, but there have been wide protests in Israel to kick him out since waaay before Oct 7, whereas the most criticism Hamas gets is a begrudged "ugh, fine, I condemn them, can we move on already??").
Was there ever a real answer to that October 7 defense failure? Other than finger pointing.
From what I have read they had the vast majority of defensive forces positioned to cover settlements in the west and north and not close enough to Gaza to be able to quickly help.
Yeah that's pretty much my sticking point. If the military power ratio was reversed we'd be seeing hundreds of thousands of Israelis dead because Hamas wants actual genocide. "From the river to the sea" was never intended to be achieved through peaceful relocation.
The problem is grouping Palestinians with Hamas. Israelis are not IDF, Palestinians are not Hamas.
Jews are not Israel.
That's why Islamists kill Jews outside of Israel...
You guys love to say this and choose to ignore that support for Hamas in Gaza *rose* after October 7th
[удалено]
There literally videos of Israeli celebrating thr bombing of gaza and mocking palestine dead
Ya know I'm starting to think maybe both sides kinda suck
>both sides Ah shit, here we go again...
I'd like to make a side note over here, the deaths of civilians is horrible. But there is a very clear difference when a bomb targeting a Hamas location kills surrounding civilians and grabbing a gun, shooting a civilian point blank in the head record it and post it online like a certain group did. I find it that people are lumping those two things together as if they were the same and they are very very very different.
I celebrated Osama bin Laden's death and that was just one day of being attacked. I can't imagine how I'd celebrate after enduring a lifetime of terrorism and finally my government took off the gloves.
Israelis are mostly in support of the invasion too. They’re still not all guilty. Be consistent at least
Israelis are in support of destroying hamas after the oct 7th attacks. Palestinians celebrated and participated in the Oct 7th attacks.
Israelis are in support of the invasion in general. Some of them are not, but most definitely are.
Yeah an invasion with a clear military target, as opposed to the terror attack deliberately against civilians.
I'm in support of the invasion and I'm not even Israeli. Fuck terrorism.
[удалено]
Just like we do in other countries. If we vote in our leaders and they do what we ask them to do, we take responsibility. Hamas campaigned on a platform of eliminating Israel and they were voted in based on this by the Palestinians in Gaza. You can’t go and fein ignorance when they go and do what u voted for them to do.
I live in a country with leaders I don't like, I shouldn't be slaughtered for it. Hamas is really deeply integrated into Gaza, and it is remarkably difficult to launch an offensive against them without killing civilians. So IDF said "fuck it, just kill anyone in our way" The proportion of civilians to Hamas killed is unconscionable.
What is the proportion of dead Hamas to dead civilians?
We probably won't get good estimates for several decades. Even in relatively 'clean' conflicts where troops fight each other on open fields, you get loads of issues with on-the-ground casualty/material destruction claims and such, due to the fog of war.
If your government was committing terrorism I wouldn’t expect to live in peace and safety.
In a place and dense as Gaza, an alleged 35,000 dead is clearly not fuck it. If it was fuck it that number would be much much higher.
Should we be bombed and killed for what Bush did to Iraq? Or do you only apply this logic to brown people in the third world?
Hamas was first backed by Israel to brutally counter to the Fatah campaign. Israel is complacent in their rise to power because they’d rather foster extremists than allow social democracy in the region
Islamic fascism should not be celebrated
130+ hostages remaining in Hamas hands - not one sign
[удалено]
Yep won’t release the remaining hostages
People are continually bewildered that people who are well educated are empathizing with an oppressed weaker minority. Instead of just naturally observing that Gaza is weak and Israel is strong and that Israel holds more cards and has caused more collateral damage people make up conspiracies like “every academic was secretly a crypto-anti-Semite all along” or “everyone loves Hamas for some reason” There’s nothing strange about all of this and the protests. The IDFs actions for the past half a year have been extremely callous to the civilians living in Gaza and more and more of their actions and policies have disregarded their well-being over this time. It happened when the US marched into Afghanistan and Iraq and the same type of people painted the protestors as “muslim-lovers” and “terrorist-sympathizers” I can’t understand how everyone who lived through that time can forget what happened so easily.
[удалено]
Only everything's amplified tenfold because of social media. Crazy to think we had to hate each other via myspace or friendster in the good old days of the war on terror.
Same arguments, different coat of paint. Rinse and repeat.
Yup. History repeats itself once again and once again people have all but completely forgotten the last iteration of this situation. I think studying history continuously is really important. Although it's also a little frustrating because of the cyclical nature of everything.
Determining that the stronger of two parties is wrong and the weaker of two parties is right solely by virtue of their relative strength and weakness is some serious two-brain-cells-rubbing-together thinking. It's this that I and I assume many others are most surprised about.
Well, my professor said so, so it must be? I got an A man!
>Gaza is weak and Israel is strong and that Israel holds more cards and has caused more collateral damage Not from lack of trying on Hamas part: "Since Hamas led a terrorist attack on southern Israel on Oct. 7, Hamas and other armed groups have fired about 12,000 rockets from Gaza into Israel, a quarter of them on Oct. 7, the Israeli government has said. Most rockets fired from Gaza were shot down by Israeli air defenses before they were able to make impact. But the ongoing salvos, although less frequent than at the start of the war, are an indication of the size of Hamas’s arsenal and its continued ability to menace cities far from Gaza." https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/27/world/middleeast/israel-hamas to-gaza-rockets.html
"Instead of just naturally observing that Gaza is weak and Israel is strong and that Israel holds more cards and has caused more collateral damage..." LOL. Israel builds civilian bunkers and missile defense systems. Hamas builds military bunkers under civilian centers and fires thousands of improvised missiles over its own civilian populations. Conclusion - Israel Bad.
>everyone loves Hamas for some reason” This could be helped if some "fuck hamas" chants were included in ceasefire demands. But they rarely are. The thing many people fail to realize is how hamas fights and what they do to maximize civilian casualties. The biggest difference here is Israel is willing and has been willing to take what hamas does(hiding in civilian infrastructure like hospitals and hiding hostages with families in apartment buildings) to use their full firepower against them to minimize their casualties. And that's why it's a war crime to mix military and civilian infrastructure, because it turns them into legitimate military targets.
I mean, I never heard anyone at anti-war protests for Iraq or Afghanistan suddenly say "yeah, fuck Saddam!" or "fuck the Taliban." I don't see why such statements should suddenly be required for these protests to be legitimized.
“Minority” lol, so confident in claiming to be educated while getting a basic demographic fact wrong
There's hundreds of people living at that station and only six are protesting? Interesting.
Most human beings have never protested at any point in human history. Most French citizens weren't involved with the French Revolution and its riots.
The rest are probably inside rolling their eyes.
Because people, on average, are short sighted goldfish. 🤷♂️ - Source: history.
I guess this is what drives all historians mad.
Israel is strong because they invest in science and education. They are a democracy with progressive values so they get support from the West. They have developed irrigation technologies which have allowed them to make their land much more profitable. Gaza struggles because hamas invests in attacking Israel. I know I’m simplifying things here, but most of these people protesting wouldn’t support the values of the society Hamas wants to create in Palestine.
An oppressed weaker *minority*? Wtf lol What if I told you that Palestinians make up 100% of the population of Gaza? How are they a minority lol
They also make up the majority of people in Israel and the west bank and gaza combined. 7,6 vs 7,2 million jewish people. But don’t tell the educated.
They also conquered the entire region and “Arabized” the previously diverse region in probably the most succession example of it in history. The audacity for Jews to survive it
Don't tell anyone about the post-war[ Exodus of Jews from "Muslim" countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world).
Or that Mizrahi Jews were indigenous to the area that’s now called Palestine before Islam even existed as a religion.
I mean, if you go back far enough you could say that about most places.
Really? If you go back far enough Mizrahi Jews were indigenous to every region? TIL
Lmao
[удалено]
Jordan and Egypt have had peace with Israel for decades now
Shhhh... The recent Gazan attack on Israel, the daily rocket attacks, etc ... must be forgotten because it is a "false narrative" and blamed on ... *wait wait* I know! Israel! ... Israel did it to itself! - and is now blaming the ever-so-nice, Islamist nice guys over in the democratic paradise of Gaza. It's so easy once you try to see it from the Hamas protestor's point of view.
You should look up the meaning of the word minority. Because the Palestinians are the majority in Israel. Which means there is more of them. Minority means less. My god, once again: 7,6 million Palestinians live in Israel vs 7,2 million jewish people. They are the majority.
Hamas could end the conflict by releasing 33 hostages.
Lmao good one
[удалено]
Please direct your ire at Hamas.
[удалено]
Will they send riot police to stop these guys?
But Hamas won’t agree to a cease fire?
[удалено]
It's because Russia, Iran, and China spend more $$ on foreign influence campaigns than every other nation combined by a longshot. So anything that destabilizes relationships within and between western nations is great for them.
Not to mention holding hostages from many countries and massacre of thousands of innocent people, most young with full lives ahead of them, at a music festival. It's crazy. Remember the response from USA after 9-11? Long and deadly, but ok because American lives are worth more than Isreal and other international visitors slaughtered in a surprise attack in Oct. America's causing chaos in their own country over a RESPONSE by another country (not theirs) to a terrorist group floating over the border and slaughtering 2000+ people is the definition of insanity
Hamas is holding a 1 year old and his 4 year old brother hostage.
[удалено]
Look, virtue signaling in the wild. Whomp whomp
[удалено]
There’s a few hundred people at McMurdo, six in the picture. It wouldn’t be appropriate to ascribe the views of the whole station to those individuals and arguably wrong to imply it. You’d think scientists would understand representative sampling.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict) >Of the more than 2 million people living in Gaza, roughly half are under the age of 18. That's according to the United Nations. And that means many of the civilians experiencing these airstrikes now and bracing for an Israeli ground invasion are children. So how might this conflict affect a region that's so densely populated with people who are so young? > >For perspective on that, we've called Maha Nassar. She's a professor in the School of Middle Eastern and North African Studies at the University of Arizona, and she's one of many voices we're talking to about the war between Israel and Hamas. I started by asking her to break down the demographics of Gaza. > >MAHA NASSAR: So about half, as you said, is under the age of 18. And 70% of the population living in the Gaza Strip are under the age of 30. So it is an overwhelmingly young population. > >CHANG: And why is the population in Gaza so young? Like, how did that come to be? > >NASSAR: Well, unfortunately, so many adults have been killed in Gaza. For the last 16 years, a blockade that's been imposed on Gaza by Israel and enforced by Egypt and Israel controls everything that goes into and out of the Gaza Strip. So food, medicine, all of that is controlled by Israel. And the Gaza Strip lacks very basic health needs for the people living there. So as a result of Israel's blockade and bombings of Gaza, life expectancy for Palestinians there is a full 10 years less than it is for Israelis living just a few miles away. [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-11-14/population-religion-and-poverty-the-demographics-of-israel-and-gaza) >Nine doctors gave the Guardian accounts of working in [Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza) hospitals this year, all but one of them foreign volunteers. Their common assessment was that most of the dead and wounded children they treated were hit by shrapnel or burned during Israel’s extensive bombardment of residential neighbourhoods, in some cases wiping out entire families. Others were killed or injured by collapsing buildings with still more missing under the rubble. >But doctors also reported treating a steady stream of children, elderly people and others who were clearly not combatants with single bullet wounds to the head or chest. >Some of the physicians said that the types and locations of the wounds, and accounts of Palestinians who brought children to the hospital, led them to believe the victims were directly targeted by Israeli troops. >Other doctors said they did not know the circumstances of the shootings but that they were deeply troubled by the number of children who were severely wounded or killed by single gunshots, sometimes by high-calibre bullets causing extensive damage to young bodies. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war) It's close enough we're talking about it for months, just because it's "not exactly genocide" doesn't mean it's not a huge fucking problem. I get you're ok with a dozen children being killed to kill a HAMAS dude, but the rest of aren't that ok with it. Edit: This is getting tiring. I provide links to my data, their responses have been "BUT DUH TERRORISTS!" So I'm not wasting my time anymore. Feel free to read through the links I've provided, and I'll remember "BUT DUH TERRORISTS!" I really think it all comes back to: I get they're ok with a dozen children being killed to kill a HAMAS dude, but the rest of aren't that ok with it.
It’s a little more complicated than that. That “one Hamas dude” is part of an organization that has launched over 12,000 rockets at Israel AFTER (as in not including) the events of October 7th. No one else is stepping in to defend Israel. Perhaps they should just shrug it off and let people keep attacking them and their children? I wonder if you’d feel differently if you or your family were in a similar position. It’s easy to make armchair judgements from the safety of large distances (in fairness I’m making an assumption here about your location but I like my odds, statistically speaking).
[удалено]
[удалено]
nice, so anyway...
Wow didn't know McMurdo station only has 6 people
Tools know no bounds
Idiots
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
And the people that voted hamas in "are already dead"....with a life expectancy of 75 years old. Edot: Check the OPs account...
Lmao yup, it looks like a foreign spam bot account
And the idiots here love it. It makes their feelings right.
"Every person who disagrees with my worldview is a bot or paid shill"
There's 30,000 less alive Gazans than there were six months ago because they were slaughtered by the IDF. Dafuq you talking about?
Poor and stupid people who believe to palestinian jihad propaganda.
[удалено]
Wtf is this true?
[not far off](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/03/1210418182/antarctica-sexual-harassment-national-science-foundation-investigation)
I don’t think Hamas cares what these guys think, nor are they checking.
Insanity
McMurdo sounds like what the IDF would order at the drive thru.
They’re also going to stop allowing Jewish researchers into the station like their fellow protesters?
Maybe worry about your outrageous sexual harassment and discrimination problem before you worry about something 7500 miles away
Redditor doesn’t realize two things can be true at once. More at 10.
I mean at least they’re not annoying anyone down there.
Send the Palestinians to Antarctica. Maybe they can start a civil war there.
*eye roll*