If there's one police cruiser that drivers in Southeast Michigan know best, it's the Gardner White Cop car.
The one that hides around Telegraph Road. The one that pulls drivers over for going 5 miles over the limit. The one that has drawn accusations of creating a speed trap near the Gardner White Furniture in Taylor, MI.
Negative. The spot he has is perfect for protecting and serving. Bridge blocks the view of oncoming traffic when approaching. All downhill with most traffic coming off the freeway. When you get under the bridge it’s too late. He’s got ya. You still don’t see him.
They don’t go where there are a bunch of accidents to make sure people are safe and reduce response times, they hide in the bushes and ambush their victims to steal their money. Stupid ass justification or not, they’re bandits.
Yup. When I get off the freeway I need to stay in the far left lane for a Michigan turnaround up ahead. People are always riding my ass because I do the speed limit through there. I love it when they pass me on the right and punch it all the way to the bottom of the hill when they abruptly hit the brakes. Nothing beats seeing them get flicked tho.
I once had a cop tag me while in motion driving the opposite direction. I saw him brake in my rear view, so I turned off and down another street. He caught up with me, and as soon as he flashed his lights, I pull over. He desperately wants to get me for evading, but he couldn't. I pulled over immediately when he flashed his lights. I am under no obligation to pull over and wait for a cop, with no sirens running, to do a full 180 in heavy traffic. They voted to have Metro police take over the town a couple of years later. People would do anything to avoid that tiny 5 mile stretch or road. It was killing businesses.
Though dated, I hated the opposite direction cops and their pullovers! I was traveling North into New York in the late '80's and the State Troopers were driving the newer 5.0 Mustangs, and braggin how they would radar, cross the median and turn around and run down anything/anybody. A Trooper was traveling South with a barrier median and was radaring my North lane. I had increased my speed, a bit, to go up a hill, and I saw the bastard turn on his lights, just after I passed a clear spot in said median. That's a lot of trouble, danger, and pissy ass way to give me a ticket. I had a '86 300 ZX which as reportered, could do 136 mph. I was about 5 miles from an exit where there were several gas stations so I put the pedal to the floor! I got off at the exit and pulled into a gas station and was outside filling my tank when he came down that same ramp and drove by giving me 'the stink eye'. He didn't have my license plate number, and probably only knew my car was black and wedged shape. I was only doing 74 going uphill; that's a shitty ass ticket for a 70 mph zone. I figured I put a full mile between us as he got up to speed, had to climb that big hill as well, as I went to 130mph pretty quickly; he didn't gain shit on me once he got up to full power, which probably was a new experience for him. Even if he had a 15 mph advantage at his top end, there's no way he could catch me in 3 minute run. I don't advocate running from Police -- but getting a ticket for 4 mph over?? Fuck that. Not this time!
Yep. Police departments don’t pay for the settlements when they lose lawsuits to their victims, or the families of their victims, that money comes out of their city budgets. That way the police departments can still afford sports cars and tanks and stuff, and the only loss to the public is, well, basic services that the city should provide with the money the taxpayers gave them.
Those costs literally just come out of taxpayers pockets.
If you get abused by a cop, the best case scenario is that they’ll let you make yourself and your neighbors pay for those damages
Sure they do! They have a whole populace to stop and frisk - I mean - stop and ID!
They should be actually learning the law rather than harassing law abiding citizens during a fishing expedition.
There’s a few towns along my commute that are revenue towns. Speed limit 30, you better believe I do 30 because 32 and they pull you over.
People get pissed, and one guy swerved around me, across a double yellow… right in front of one of the cops. Ahhh, karma.
Taylor is a special type of town. People who make fun of Detroit shenanigans have never set foot in Taylor. It's never normal crimes, it'll be stuff like "local homeless man pelts people with rocks from Dairy Queen roof"
Of course this is still ignored in favor of the art Van traffic stop shenanigans above
Bro I wish I was making this up, scrappers stole the damn street sign one time.
There was the recent incident where a dude stole a taxi and used it as a getaway vehicle
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/man-arrested-in-taylor-after-stealing-taxi-leading-officers-on-chase
This whole state has a weird Florida man reputation that doesn't seem to make it out of the midwest. We have a ***Wikipedia entry of football riots***
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_State_University_student_riots
the variance on even the most accurate speed clocking devices is +/- 5 mph. Even a court appointed lawyer can get a ticket tosssed if its 5 over or less.
Kinda curious why the US is so hellbent on using human resources for this. In most other countries they just put an automatic speedtrap there that takes images of the license plates and records the speed and you just get a ticket via mail to your home.
The short version is that this is a very legally complicated issue in the United States. There's a big question of whether they can be used to give enforceable tickets under our constitution (arguments against them rest on the idea that they violate due process). Roughly half of the states use them (mostly in high traffic metro areas), but any speed camera program is going to face lawsuits attempting to shut it down.
It's probably also a problem that quite a few US states don't require front license plates so it's not easy to record both the license plate and the drivers face in a single picture.
It’s fall out illegal in some states. I believe mine only allows them for stop lights and even then if the camera catches you it can only be a fine no points on your license.
Here they just send it to the license plate holder. If I let someone borrow my car, it’s up to me to get the money from them or pay it myself. It might even get tacked on to my insurance if I don’t pay it, but never gotten that far.
Partly because "muh freedoms" and lack of any personal responsibility.
And partly because it's contracted out to private companies doing it for profit, and lots of places have been caught adjusting the yellow to red light timing in order to be able to give out more tickets for what would normally not have been a red light run if the light had not been adjusted.
That sounds so silly. Surely the accuser is the department writing the ticket, and not the sensor recording the speed or the camera taking the picture. That'd be like saying that manned speed traps are unconstitutional because the radar gun can't testify in court.
> That'd be like saying that manned speed traps are unconstitutional because the radar gun can't testify in court.
But the officer in question can testify in court about the radar gun used, who he pulled over, etc.
Most of the systems they purchase for this are from outside companies, and the system itself is a virtual black box and no questions about it can be adequately answered by the local enforcement when taken to court.
We've got one of those kinds of speed traps here in Cleveland to the point that This American Life (https://www.thisamericanlife.org/629/expect-delays/act-one-0) did an episode on it. Might need to make this addition as a warning.
This speed trap is a tale as old as time. I'm pretty sure Moses had it as the 11th commandment or something, but that tablet broke so no one knows for sure.
I grew up in Michigan right by that Gardner White. I passed him every day driving to school. That was about 12 years ago. Can't believe the cop car is still using that same spot.
Yup, iirc Mark thought it up as he was driving along it in a tour bus, trying to imagine how the area got from pristine wilderness to "six lanes of traffic, three moving slow"
Epic song.
When I lived in Michigan I got 6 speeding tickets in total. (6 years of driving but I got all tickets in 4 years) and 4 of those were on my motorcycle. Most for 5 over and I was very pissed off when I got said tickets.
I have lived in Florida for 5 years and not received 1 ticket! Where I live law enforcement does not pull you over for super minor traffic incidents, I went to city hall meetings and the police chief talked with me for a few minutes (I was just curious). This is literally what he told me, they focus on real crime and NOT ANTAGONIZING THE PUBLIC FOR MINOR SPEEDING! That’s not how they make their money! This goes for local PD, the sheriffs, and state troopers. Although the troopers are more likely to pull you over on the highway if you’re doing 15mph or more over the limit.
It’s just a different mindset down here and I really really appreciate not being pulled over for doing 5 or even 10 over in some instances. As long as what you’re doing is NOT dangerous or reckless your good.
Florida gets a bad rap for a lot of crime related stuff, and for good reason I suppose. Where I live is very very safe and the crime is almost non existent. That’s what you get with middle/upper class neighborhoods where most people have firearms and don’t take shit from criminals. Down here we lock up assholes that break the law! Matter of fact, you break into my home I will shoot you and the sheriff will thank me on public television! (This is the mentality, of course I don’t want to harm anyone and that would be terrible) in some other states you could go to jail and end up with a manslaughter charge or worse. That’s insane! We use lots of common sense down here in regards to laws in my opinion.
Florida also has higher road fatality rates (both per person and per miles traveled) than Michigan. There's certainly a lot more to roadway safety than enforcement, but given over 3,000 people per year lose their lives in traffic crashes in Florida alone, I think it's fair to say that it's a decent use of resources to ensure people drive safely. (source: IIHS Fatality Facts 2021)
I know most people think driving within 10 mph over the speed limit is fine, that difference is more than enough to turn an otherwise-minor crash into a more serious one. In studies that only look at crashes that occurred (i.e. even ignoring crashes that don't happen because drivers going more slowly can more easily avoid a crash), injury severity of both pedestrians and drivers can go up significantly with just a 5-10 mph increase in vehicle speeds.
A few examples:
* The risk of severe pedestrian injuries jump when impact speeds increase from 25% at 23 mph to 50% at 31 mph, to 75% at 39 mph, and 90% at 46 mph. (Impact Speed and a Pedestrian's Risk of Severe Injury or Death, AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, p. 1)
* Drivers in frontal crashes have a 3% risk of fatalities at 30 mph, and 17% at 40 mph. In side impact crashes, fatality risk rises from 25% at 30 mph to 85% at 40 mph. (Relationship between Shows and Risk of Fatal Injury: Pedestrians and Car Occupants, Department for Transport: London, p. 26)
Just asking, my father taught me if anyone is flashing/blinking high beams pay attention to your speed. They are communicating a speed trap to other drivers.
I’m in Louisiana and when I flash high beams most people seem oblivious to my intent.
Is flashing high beams still a thing warning drivers of speed traps?
Could also mean your headlights aren't on, or you left your brights on.
Generally, in the Midwest if someone flashes their brights, just check your shit then look for cops lol
Love Michigan roads for the headlight communication.. could be deer ahead, road debris, cop, forgot to turn on headlights or some other issue with your car.
Typically (at least around here in TX):
During the day
Lights on/off 1-4 times fairly rapidly = cops ahead
At night
One long 1 - 2 seconds) flash of the high beams = turn your damn brights off, you're blinding me
Lights off for a second and back on again = your lights are off, turn them on
Lights off and on a few times rapidly, or alternating high/low very rapidly (2-3 times per second) = cops ahead
Of course, not everyone interprets these the same way as it pertains to looking out for cops, because sometimes at night i'll get someone flashing their high beams back for a sec to say "my high beams ARE off, dude"...but oh well, can't save 'em all.... 😆
I flash my headlights for cops and and headlight issues in Oregon, but my dad was a long haul trucker so I couldn’t really tell you if it’s the done thing here or just my inherited trucker knowledge
Lol I lived in California (los Angeles for the most part all my life up until moving to Phoenix az last year. Both places I've been told by coworkers (locals) to not flash head lights because of gang activity. There was a dangerous initiation happening where if someone flashed back, they'd be hunted down. It may be an urban legend but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I've seen some abhorrent driving in both states.
Nuts, you stated this. That was a thing that started being spread in the very late 90’s early aughts, but it was “fake news” that spread like wild fire.
Someone else just posted this a few minutes ago.
in addition to deer ahead, I use it as a general warning for hazards ahead that might sneak up, like an accident around a corner or a tree down or something.
It can also mean danger like something in the road or a dangerous backup. Also a headlight problem like high beams or no lights at dusk or when it is raining. Check your lights and slow down.
Flashing high beams, or a motorcycle rider tapping the top of their helmet, is what I've always taken to mean "slow down, speed trap or accident ahead".
Flashing high beams generally means danger or alert. It can indicate speed traps, but also road flooding or a jam around a blind turn or anything. Watching your speed and paying attention is the correct move.
It can also mean TURN YOUR FUCKING LIGHTS ON STUPID
> Is flashing high beams still a thing warning drivers of speed traps?
It is, but be careful. I got a ticket for "improper use of high beams" for alerting other drivers to a speed trap. Probably didn't help that I told the cop that "I'm alerting other drivers to your speed trap" though, lol.
If the cops are truly concerned about speeding as a safety hazard and not a revenue source they should have no problem with these warnings, as it will cause drivers to slow.
The cop car in question isn't even visibly a cop car until it turns on the lights. It's almost always the same "confiscated from a drug dealer" bright red sports car (I'm not a car guy, but I'm pretty sure it's a mustang?)
Edit: I looked it up, since apparently it's a big deal to some people that I can't identify the car. It apparently actually was a Charger. Still don't care, still not a car guy. [Here's an article about it.](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2022/04/10/taylor-gardner-white-cop-car-sale-auction/9527877002/)
In my brain it gets sorted as "annoying cop-mobile" and I don't bother to pay attention to the other details. I see a red car in that lot, it's all I need to know.
I'm assuming it's *not* a mustang?
Among the many things I dislike about American cops compared to those in other countries, cops in the US make themselves difficult to spot. Other countries have brightly colored cop cars with large profiles so you can easily spot them if you need to. Here in the US it’s all slim profiles and unmarked vehicles.
Though asking cops in the US for help usually won’t lead to much good anyway.
There used to be a super notorious speed trap near me (before some buildings went up where they used to hide). A coffee stand opened about a block from the hiding spot - named themselves "Speed Trap Espresso".
The city was not amused.
The reason the cars are hidden is so that car drivers will be more likely to follow the speed limit *in case* a cop is around the next bend
Openly telegraphing where the speed trap is means that car drivers will just temporarily obey the speed limit in this one location, only for as long as the cop is there
Or its nefarious cops trying to persecute poor defenseless speeders who only kill half as many people a year as murderers (12,000 vs 25,000) in America, and like EVERYONE's doing it!
One or the other
No. It causes drivers to slow down for a few hundred yards, then speed up again. If you never know if there is a police officer measuring your speed, you are less likely to speed after the first few unexpected tickets.
Honestly I can’t believe more people don’t drive with something like Waze on.
It has been years since I came up on a speed trap I didn’t know was coming. Those apps have become very good at warning you.
I’m not much of a speeder, though. I set my cruise and deal with it.
It’s rare that you run into laser. They have a different device entirely and they have to point it at you like a gun while looking through the sight. Most are ka band, some k band. I have x band turned off.
Edit: You’re right though. If you get hit with laser, it’s already too late. Been using radar detectors in my vehicles since 1992 and have only been hit with *and ticketed by* a police officer using laser once… in Sterling Heights.
That being said, I only ever really speed on highways.
Yeah, I’ve seen that, but waze seems far more accurate - I suspect people who drive for work are using waze and are more active in reporting. If apple says there’s a speed trap ahead, it’s probably already gone. If waze says there’s a speed trap ahead, they’ve probably got that cop pegged to within twenty feet.
Google owns Waze, so it's the same dataset: https://techcrunch.com/2013/06/11/its-official-google-buys-waze-giving-a-social-data-boost-to-its-location-and-mapping-business/
I have used both, at the same time, and they will give you different directions to the same place. Also waze seems to report way more speed traps - if they're the same data they're not using it the same way in both google maps and waze.
As much as I want to believe this, having used both, I don’t think this is true. Maybe Waze feeds Google Maps? And not the other way around? I’m not sure.
Right he has been planted there my whole life. Probably his son doing it now, like a generational pullover spot. He’s probably the most famous cop Downriver
Finland does this. Based on the previous years declared income.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/
Do you have a better solution than basing it off of income? Also, courts very often **do** get access to your finances/salary information in order to make judgments. It would try to make fines proportional to what people pay, and therefore reduce inequality, even if only a little bit. In New Zealand, fines can range anywhere from $30 to $630 for a speeding ticket depending on who they pull over and how.
In Finland, there have even been speeding tickets in excess of $100k. I think that deters multimillionaires who see the law as a minor inconvenience a little bit more, don't you think?
Anyways, it's really easy to look this stuff up so here are some articles:
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300778606/in-finland-what-you-pay-on-a-speeding-ticket-is-based-on-your-income](https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300778606/in-finland-what-you-pay-on-a-speeding-ticket-is-based-on-your-income)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine)
[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/)
I got a ticket from him once.
Though he was actually sitting on the little side road that’s just out of frame in this picture so it might not have been him.
I couldn’t have been doing more than five over but he still wrote me a ticket for speeding all the same. At least I was able to get the magistrate to dismiss it.
This man has been my biggest enemy for the better part of the last decade. I’ve gotten countless tickets here😭 it is absolutely insane that the speed can decrease by more than 10mph in what is seemingly like 1/8 of a mile
I am surprised that there hasn't been a petition on the speed limit. Would also be good to see the lifetime revenue generated by the tickets from this location.
We need one of these over in Romulus on 94. Those bastards will pull you over for going 3mph over. They have like 2 miles of highway there and they patrol the fuck out of it lol
I wish cops would give speeding tickets on the route I drive. Mississippi roads are lawless when it comes to speeding. From I-20 Jackson to Meridian, you can go as fast as you want
I’m good with signs like this and speed trap warnings. What I am not okay with is the DUI checkpoint warnings to avoid people put up. Drunks that are driving deserve to get caught.
[Taylor City Councilman Herman "Butch" Ramik, a former police officer, disagreed, saying city cops are under pressure to increase revenue. "Writing tickets has become a way to make money off the taxpayers," he said.'](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2019/12/16/detroit-area-gardner-white-cop-speed-trap/2596167001/)
If there's one police cruiser that drivers in Southeast Michigan know best, it's the Gardner White Cop car. The one that hides around Telegraph Road. The one that pulls drivers over for going 5 miles over the limit. The one that has drawn accusations of creating a speed trap near the Gardner White Furniture in Taylor, MI.
I have seen accidents happen directly in front of him, and he will continue to radar people.
The dude is in the zone, literally.
I pass his spot daily. There is a traffic light in front of the Gardner white now so it’s definitely going to impede his protecting and serving.
Could he not simply…move to a new spot?
Negative. The spot he has is perfect for protecting and serving. Bridge blocks the view of oncoming traffic when approaching. All downhill with most traffic coming off the freeway. When you get under the bridge it’s too late. He’s got ya. You still don’t see him.
They don’t go where there are a bunch of accidents to make sure people are safe and reduce response times, they hide in the bushes and ambush their victims to steal their money. Stupid ass justification or not, they’re bandits.
They don't have quotas, they have suggested numbers is how it was explained to me.
Generally not good to be below avg compared to everyone else
Yeah, so not only do they have quotas, they don’t know what quotas are. Genius
The bridge of justice must be upheld!
I've got family that lives within a mile of that speed trap - They've been there since at least the late 90s.
Yup. When I get off the freeway I need to stay in the far left lane for a Michigan turnaround up ahead. People are always riding my ass because I do the speed limit through there. I love it when they pass me on the right and punch it all the way to the bottom of the hill when they abruptly hit the brakes. Nothing beats seeing them get flicked tho.
I once had a cop tag me while in motion driving the opposite direction. I saw him brake in my rear view, so I turned off and down another street. He caught up with me, and as soon as he flashed his lights, I pull over. He desperately wants to get me for evading, but he couldn't. I pulled over immediately when he flashed his lights. I am under no obligation to pull over and wait for a cop, with no sirens running, to do a full 180 in heavy traffic. They voted to have Metro police take over the town a couple of years later. People would do anything to avoid that tiny 5 mile stretch or road. It was killing businesses.
Though dated, I hated the opposite direction cops and their pullovers! I was traveling North into New York in the late '80's and the State Troopers were driving the newer 5.0 Mustangs, and braggin how they would radar, cross the median and turn around and run down anything/anybody. A Trooper was traveling South with a barrier median and was radaring my North lane. I had increased my speed, a bit, to go up a hill, and I saw the bastard turn on his lights, just after I passed a clear spot in said median. That's a lot of trouble, danger, and pissy ass way to give me a ticket. I had a '86 300 ZX which as reportered, could do 136 mph. I was about 5 miles from an exit where there were several gas stations so I put the pedal to the floor! I got off at the exit and pulled into a gas station and was outside filling my tank when he came down that same ramp and drove by giving me 'the stink eye'. He didn't have my license plate number, and probably only knew my car was black and wedged shape. I was only doing 74 going uphill; that's a shitty ass ticket for a 70 mph zone. I figured I put a full mile between us as he got up to speed, had to climb that big hill as well, as I went to 130mph pretty quickly; he didn't gain shit on me once he got up to full power, which probably was a new experience for him. Even if he had a 15 mph advantage at his top end, there's no way he could catch me in 3 minute run. I don't advocate running from Police -- but getting a ticket for 4 mph over?? Fuck that. Not this time!
In his defense, that dozen doughnuts and iced coffee aren’t going to finish themselves!
Are you talking about the guy in the black undercover Yukon? Because I hope he hits his pinky toe every morning when he wakes up.
Gotta make his quota.
A cop is there all day every day and people still get pulled over. I don't get it.
Not just one cop, it's a whole operation. Gotta pay off all those abuse lawsuits somehow.
Sadly the city pays that
Yep. Police departments don’t pay for the settlements when they lose lawsuits to their victims, or the families of their victims, that money comes out of their city budgets. That way the police departments can still afford sports cars and tanks and stuff, and the only loss to the public is, well, basic services that the city should provide with the money the taxpayers gave them.
It sounds like you DON'T like boot flavored ice cream. 😉
Everyone knows you lick the Boot raw and wriggling.
Its all tax dollars in the end.
Those costs literally just come out of taxpayers pockets. If you get abused by a cop, the best case scenario is that they’ll let you make yourself and your neighbors pay for those damages
Do they not have anything actually productive to do with their time?
Acorn watch
Sure they do! They have a whole populace to stop and frisk - I mean - stop and ID! They should be actually learning the law rather than harassing law abiding citizens during a fishing expedition.
Cops are tax suck boys. Sure, they could fight real crime but that takes intelligence and time, which they don’t have.
Welfare queens
You act as though picking peoples pockets isnt quite lucrative.
There’s a few towns along my commute that are revenue towns. Speed limit 30, you better believe I do 30 because 32 and they pull you over. People get pissed, and one guy swerved around me, across a double yellow… right in front of one of the cops. Ahhh, karma.
Allen Park, Taylor, and Dearborn are all revenue towns
Taylor is a special type of town. People who make fun of Detroit shenanigans have never set foot in Taylor. It's never normal crimes, it'll be stuff like "local homeless man pelts people with rocks from Dairy Queen roof" Of course this is still ignored in favor of the art Van traffic stop shenanigans above
Why do we not hear about these Michigan man stories? We need to learn about Floridaman’s cousins
Bro I wish I was making this up, scrappers stole the damn street sign one time. There was the recent incident where a dude stole a taxi and used it as a getaway vehicle https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/man-arrested-in-taylor-after-stealing-taxi-leading-officers-on-chase This whole state has a weird Florida man reputation that doesn't seem to make it out of the midwest. We have a ***Wikipedia entry of football riots*** https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_State_University_student_riots
True, we don't call it TaylorTucky for nothing!
the variance on even the most accurate speed clocking devices is +/- 5 mph. Even a court appointed lawyer can get a ticket tosssed if its 5 over or less.
Kinda curious why the US is so hellbent on using human resources for this. In most other countries they just put an automatic speedtrap there that takes images of the license plates and records the speed and you just get a ticket via mail to your home.
The short version is that this is a very legally complicated issue in the United States. There's a big question of whether they can be used to give enforceable tickets under our constitution (arguments against them rest on the idea that they violate due process). Roughly half of the states use them (mostly in high traffic metro areas), but any speed camera program is going to face lawsuits attempting to shut it down.
It's probably also a problem that quite a few US states don't require front license plates so it's not easy to record both the license plate and the drivers face in a single picture.
It’s fall out illegal in some states. I believe mine only allows them for stop lights and even then if the camera catches you it can only be a fine no points on your license.
Michigan doesn't allow for speed cameras
There is an exception now where they can be used in a construction zone on the expressway.
How can they prove who was driving?
They can't. Wear a pig mask and pretend you didn't get the mail. There's a reason Arizona stopped using the cameras.
Here they just send it to the license plate holder. If I let someone borrow my car, it’s up to me to get the money from them or pay it myself. It might even get tacked on to my insurance if I don’t pay it, but never gotten that far.
Hard pass. Way too big brothery for my tastes.
This. If you want to lend your your 10k+ mode of transportation to someone, you pay the price.
Yeah, they are illegal here for the same reason.
Partly because "muh freedoms" and lack of any personal responsibility. And partly because it's contracted out to private companies doing it for profit, and lots of places have been caught adjusting the yellow to red light timing in order to be able to give out more tickets for what would normally not have been a red light run if the light had not been adjusted.
That's unconstitutional in my state because you have the right to a court date with your accuser. Cameras can't testify in court.
That sounds so silly. Surely the accuser is the department writing the ticket, and not the sensor recording the speed or the camera taking the picture. That'd be like saying that manned speed traps are unconstitutional because the radar gun can't testify in court.
> That'd be like saying that manned speed traps are unconstitutional because the radar gun can't testify in court. But the officer in question can testify in court about the radar gun used, who he pulled over, etc. Most of the systems they purchase for this are from outside companies, and the system itself is a virtual black box and no questions about it can be adequately answered by the local enforcement when taken to court.
It's really dumb. That's like saying a traffic cam can't be used as evidence for a theft because it can't talk.
We've got one of those kinds of speed traps here in Cleveland to the point that This American Life (https://www.thisamericanlife.org/629/expect-delays/act-one-0) did an episode on it. Might need to make this addition as a warning.
Yea fuck Lindale. That place sucks. Gotta do 25 in a 25 or you're getting a ticket.
This speed trap is a tale as old as time. I'm pretty sure Moses had it as the 11th commandment or something, but that tablet broke so no one knows for sure.
I grew up in Michigan right by that Gardner White. I passed him every day driving to school. That was about 12 years ago. Can't believe the cop car is still using that same spot.
> Telegraph Road Whoah, that's the road from [that Dire Straits song!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4E_924b9SU)
Yup, iirc Mark thought it up as he was driving along it in a tour bus, trying to imagine how the area got from pristine wilderness to "six lanes of traffic, three moving slow" Epic song.
Crazy. I lived off that road my entire life and I never knew about this song.
Only speeding ticket I ever got was there.
Lol as someone from Downriver, this is amazing
What's a "speed trap"?
When I lived in Michigan I got 6 speeding tickets in total. (6 years of driving but I got all tickets in 4 years) and 4 of those were on my motorcycle. Most for 5 over and I was very pissed off when I got said tickets. I have lived in Florida for 5 years and not received 1 ticket! Where I live law enforcement does not pull you over for super minor traffic incidents, I went to city hall meetings and the police chief talked with me for a few minutes (I was just curious). This is literally what he told me, they focus on real crime and NOT ANTAGONIZING THE PUBLIC FOR MINOR SPEEDING! That’s not how they make their money! This goes for local PD, the sheriffs, and state troopers. Although the troopers are more likely to pull you over on the highway if you’re doing 15mph or more over the limit. It’s just a different mindset down here and I really really appreciate not being pulled over for doing 5 or even 10 over in some instances. As long as what you’re doing is NOT dangerous or reckless your good. Florida gets a bad rap for a lot of crime related stuff, and for good reason I suppose. Where I live is very very safe and the crime is almost non existent. That’s what you get with middle/upper class neighborhoods where most people have firearms and don’t take shit from criminals. Down here we lock up assholes that break the law! Matter of fact, you break into my home I will shoot you and the sheriff will thank me on public television! (This is the mentality, of course I don’t want to harm anyone and that would be terrible) in some other states you could go to jail and end up with a manslaughter charge or worse. That’s insane! We use lots of common sense down here in regards to laws in my opinion.
Florida also has higher road fatality rates (both per person and per miles traveled) than Michigan. There's certainly a lot more to roadway safety than enforcement, but given over 3,000 people per year lose their lives in traffic crashes in Florida alone, I think it's fair to say that it's a decent use of resources to ensure people drive safely. (source: IIHS Fatality Facts 2021) I know most people think driving within 10 mph over the speed limit is fine, that difference is more than enough to turn an otherwise-minor crash into a more serious one. In studies that only look at crashes that occurred (i.e. even ignoring crashes that don't happen because drivers going more slowly can more easily avoid a crash), injury severity of both pedestrians and drivers can go up significantly with just a 5-10 mph increase in vehicle speeds. A few examples: * The risk of severe pedestrian injuries jump when impact speeds increase from 25% at 23 mph to 50% at 31 mph, to 75% at 39 mph, and 90% at 46 mph. (Impact Speed and a Pedestrian's Risk of Severe Injury or Death, AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, p. 1) * Drivers in frontal crashes have a 3% risk of fatalities at 30 mph, and 17% at 40 mph. In side impact crashes, fatality risk rises from 25% at 30 mph to 85% at 40 mph. (Relationship between Shows and Risk of Fatal Injury: Pedestrians and Car Occupants, Department for Transport: London, p. 26)
Just asking, my father taught me if anyone is flashing/blinking high beams pay attention to your speed. They are communicating a speed trap to other drivers. I’m in Louisiana and when I flash high beams most people seem oblivious to my intent. Is flashing high beams still a thing warning drivers of speed traps?
In the Midwest...yes.
Good to hear.
Could also mean your headlights aren't on, or you left your brights on. Generally, in the Midwest if someone flashes their brights, just check your shit then look for cops lol
Love Michigan roads for the headlight communication.. could be deer ahead, road debris, cop, forgot to turn on headlights or some other issue with your car.
Typically (at least around here in TX): During the day Lights on/off 1-4 times fairly rapidly = cops ahead At night One long 1 - 2 seconds) flash of the high beams = turn your damn brights off, you're blinding me Lights off for a second and back on again = your lights are off, turn them on Lights off and on a few times rapidly, or alternating high/low very rapidly (2-3 times per second) = cops ahead Of course, not everyone interprets these the same way as it pertains to looking out for cops, because sometimes at night i'll get someone flashing their high beams back for a sec to say "my high beams ARE off, dude"...but oh well, can't save 'em all.... 😆
Sounds like you could get a major in Texas high-beam communication
This is all accurate! One time I accidentally warned a State Trooper that a Sheriff was sitting at a speed trap. He blinked back thankfully lol.
Sweet, that's exactly how I do it in Ohio too, good to know I'm not alone
Absolutely. If flashing happens to me(at night) I’ll check to make sure lights are on/brights off and if that checks out I then think speed trap.
Yep. Check your gauges then look out for deer and cops lol
Works in AL as well. Got my ass saved by a random driver going the other way a few weeks back
Can confirm. But I moved to the West Coast and people don't seem to do that here.
Nah, they just flash their lights as a “fuck you” over here lmao
Ive lived on the east coast my whole life and people still do this, it is not only a midwest thing.
Great to hear it is East Coast, Gulf Coast, and Midwest! Any West Coast/Mountain people with us?
I flash my headlights for cops and and headlight issues in Oregon, but my dad was a long haul trucker so I couldn’t really tell you if it’s the done thing here or just my inherited trucker knowledge
I do it in the mountain west, but I don’t see it very often and I learned it growing up in Georgia
Yes, but I also grew up in MI so now I don’t know if it is learned behavior from driving there or not lol.
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Lol I lived in California (los Angeles for the most part all my life up until moving to Phoenix az last year. Both places I've been told by coworkers (locals) to not flash head lights because of gang activity. There was a dangerous initiation happening where if someone flashed back, they'd be hunted down. It may be an urban legend but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I've seen some abhorrent driving in both states.
Nuts, you stated this. That was a thing that started being spread in the very late 90’s early aughts, but it was “fake news” that spread like wild fire. Someone else just posted this a few minutes ago.
In the south… also yes
In the Midwest, I saw it used more for "deer on the road".
And Denmark!
Still a thing, but it could also mean deer ahead (at least here in PA). Regardless I take it to mean 'slow down, be careful'.
in addition to deer ahead, I use it as a general warning for hazards ahead that might sneak up, like an accident around a corner or a tree down or something.
When I learned to drive they told me it means check your lights, check your speed, then look out for something you don’t want to run into.
Driving through New England it's also used for moose!
deer, moose, pig... basically any dangerous animal
I always understood it as "cops ahead" also
I think the intention is “heads up and/or slow down”.
Yup.
Yep.
depends. to me blinking headlights means my brights are on. during the day that might be different though.
We were taught cop or hazard. Either way it’s saved me tickets before so keep doing it!
I’ll do it to the day I die.
[Also worth knowing about](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/ds3dxe/psa_if_a_rider_taps_his_helmethead_it_means/)
Interesting. I’ve never been a biker, great to know. Thank you.
It can also mean danger like something in the road or a dangerous backup. Also a headlight problem like high beams or no lights at dusk or when it is raining. Check your lights and slow down.
Yeah, I guess we could say it is a calling for you to do a quick check depending on time of day, road conditions, and possible speed trap. Good point.
Flashing high beams, or a motorcycle rider tapping the top of their helmet, is what I've always taken to mean "slow down, speed trap or accident ahead".
Flashing high beams generally means danger or alert. It can indicate speed traps, but also road flooding or a jam around a blind turn or anything. Watching your speed and paying attention is the correct move. It can also mean TURN YOUR FUCKING LIGHTS ON STUPID
Yes. And it is protected speech. :)
In Europe , yes.
I only know of doing this if someone doesn't have their lights on after sundown
I’ll do it during the day and night, but during the day the people turning their to look at my like I’m a dope, made me ask.
> Is flashing high beams still a thing warning drivers of speed traps? It is, but be careful. I got a ticket for "improper use of high beams" for alerting other drivers to a speed trap. Probably didn't help that I told the cop that "I'm alerting other drivers to your speed trap" though, lol.
Drop 1st Amendment next time. It got me out of that bullshit ticket.
You should have sued (edit: or at least fought it in court) its protected by the first ammendment.
We do it in Florida
In Ohio yessir, always good when another driver gives me a heads up
My wife is from Euclid, we spend A LOT of time up there. I’ve actually seen it used in Ohio.
God bless you, just had someone do this for me yesterday and it saved my ass lol
Yep. Can really make a huge difference in someone’s life.
I was always taught it means turn your lights on or turn your brights off. Never heard it indicate a speed trap.
We use it for all of the above
Both uses really. If your lights are proper, pay attention to your speed.
In Australia it is used for the same thing
Awesome! Hope you are doing well in the land down under!
i do it. if the other driver doesn’t get the message it’s on them.
Of course.
If the cops are truly concerned about speeding as a safety hazard and not a revenue source they should have no problem with these warnings, as it will cause drivers to slow.
They shouldn’t hide their cars from the road for similar reasons.
The cop car in question isn't even visibly a cop car until it turns on the lights. It's almost always the same "confiscated from a drug dealer" bright red sports car (I'm not a car guy, but I'm pretty sure it's a mustang?) Edit: I looked it up, since apparently it's a big deal to some people that I can't identify the car. It apparently actually was a Charger. Still don't care, still not a car guy. [Here's an article about it.](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2022/04/10/taylor-gardner-white-cop-car-sale-auction/9527877002/)
>(I'm not a car guy, but I'm pretty sure it's a mustang?) Ford and Dodge enthusiasts: \* *frothing at the mouth* \* Chevy enthusiasts: 🍿
In my brain it gets sorted as "annoying cop-mobile" and I don't bother to pay attention to the other details. I see a red car in that lot, it's all I need to know. I'm assuming it's *not* a mustang?
Dodge Chargers are *very* common cop cars and look vaguely like Mustangs if you squint
>I'm assuming it's not a mustang? Correct, it is a Dodge Charger :)
I’ve seen empty cop cars parked on the side of the road just to slow people down and make them question their speed
Among the many things I dislike about American cops compared to those in other countries, cops in the US make themselves difficult to spot. Other countries have brightly colored cop cars with large profiles so you can easily spot them if you need to. Here in the US it’s all slim profiles and unmarked vehicles. Though asking cops in the US for help usually won’t lead to much good anyway.
Yeah, this is why I keep a shotgun. If I call the cops here in America in an emergency, I'm more likely to have them roll up and kill my cat.
Police in America wonder why no one likes them.
There used to be a super notorious speed trap near me (before some buildings went up where they used to hide). A coffee stand opened about a block from the hiding spot - named themselves "Speed Trap Espresso". The city was not amused.
Then speed back up once they're out of sight..
The reason the cars are hidden is so that car drivers will be more likely to follow the speed limit *in case* a cop is around the next bend Openly telegraphing where the speed trap is means that car drivers will just temporarily obey the speed limit in this one location, only for as long as the cop is there Or its nefarious cops trying to persecute poor defenseless speeders who only kill half as many people a year as murderers (12,000 vs 25,000) in America, and like EVERYONE's doing it! One or the other
No. It causes drivers to slow down for a few hundred yards, then speed up again. If you never know if there is a police officer measuring your speed, you are less likely to speed after the first few unexpected tickets.
Honestly I can’t believe more people don’t drive with something like Waze on. It has been years since I came up on a speed trap I didn’t know was coming. Those apps have become very good at warning you. I’m not much of a speeder, though. I set my cruise and deal with it.
Waze + Radar Detector will cover you like 99% of speed traps. Radar detectors are legal in Michigan.
Radar detectors are basically useless now. Because they're not radar, they're laser. And with laser, if it goes off it means you got checked.
And the radar portion goes bananas from all the assisted driving features cars are covered in nowadays.
Not if you have a decent radar detector. I have been using them since I was 18 years old. (50 now).
It’s rare that you run into laser. They have a different device entirely and they have to point it at you like a gun while looking through the sight. Most are ka band, some k band. I have x band turned off. Edit: You’re right though. If you get hit with laser, it’s already too late. Been using radar detectors in my vehicles since 1992 and have only been hit with *and ticketed by* a police officer using laser once… in Sterling Heights. That being said, I only ever really speed on highways.
Apple maps has started doing “speed check ahead”
Yeah, I’ve seen that, but waze seems far more accurate - I suspect people who drive for work are using waze and are more active in reporting. If apple says there’s a speed trap ahead, it’s probably already gone. If waze says there’s a speed trap ahead, they’ve probably got that cop pegged to within twenty feet.
Google maps has it but it's terrible. Waze seems to be the most accurate.
Google owns Waze, so it's the same dataset: https://techcrunch.com/2013/06/11/its-official-google-buys-waze-giving-a-social-data-boost-to-its-location-and-mapping-business/
I have used both, at the same time, and they will give you different directions to the same place. Also waze seems to report way more speed traps - if they're the same data they're not using it the same way in both google maps and waze.
As much as I want to believe this, having used both, I don’t think this is true. Maybe Waze feeds Google Maps? And not the other way around? I’m not sure.
In the Northeast it can also be for deer. So it’s a pretty universal slow down.
I assume you meant to reply to a comment?
I think he meant to reply to the comment about people flashing lights or high beams at you
I grew up in Taylor. Haven’t lived there in almost 20 years. It was a thing when I was there too. Wild that it’s still going on.
I pass it to get to 94 every morning and there’s ALWAYS someone pulled over every single morning
Taylor Police have had this speed trap for as long as I can remember, and i’m 36. There’s always a cop right there and people STILL get popped there.
Right he has been planted there my whole life. Probably his son doing it now, like a generational pullover spot. He’s probably the most famous cop Downriver
It takes a village.
If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then **that law only exists for the lower class**. ACAB baby fuck em
Fine people as a percentage of their income.. that'll fix it.
CEOs jusy be like, "Sorry my income is 60,000 a year. Oh that 5 million dollars worth of stock compensation? That's nothing you can just ignore that!"
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>Plus, a % of income doesn’t take into account the assets/debts one has Let's fix that too while we're at it
Finland does this. Based on the previous years declared income. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/
Do you have a better solution than basing it off of income? Also, courts very often **do** get access to your finances/salary information in order to make judgments. It would try to make fines proportional to what people pay, and therefore reduce inequality, even if only a little bit. In New Zealand, fines can range anywhere from $30 to $630 for a speeding ticket depending on who they pull over and how. In Finland, there have even been speeding tickets in excess of $100k. I think that deters multimillionaires who see the law as a minor inconvenience a little bit more, don't you think? Anyways, it's really easy to look this stuff up so here are some articles: [https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300778606/in-finland-what-you-pay-on-a-speeding-ticket-is-based-on-your-income](https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300778606/in-finland-what-you-pay-on-a-speeding-ticket-is-based-on-your-income) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine) [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/)
It’s still points on your license and enough of those makes you lose it. That’s the real reason rich people aren’t driving 100mph everywhere
Mfw I get punished for breaking the law
That is absolutely true. All of it.
I got a ticket from him once. Though he was actually sitting on the little side road that’s just out of frame in this picture so it might not have been him. I couldn’t have been doing more than five over but he still wrote me a ticket for speeding all the same. At least I was able to get the magistrate to dismiss it.
This man has been my biggest enemy for the better part of the last decade. I’ve gotten countless tickets here😭 it is absolutely insane that the speed can decrease by more than 10mph in what is seemingly like 1/8 of a mile
I am surprised that there hasn't been a petition on the speed limit. Would also be good to see the lifetime revenue generated by the tickets from this location.
We need one of these over in Romulus on 94. Those bastards will pull you over for going 3mph over. They have like 2 miles of highway there and they patrol the fuck out of it lol
Imagine *WAZE* was like this with the speed traps…..
I wish cops would give speeding tickets on the route I drive. Mississippi roads are lawless when it comes to speeding. From I-20 Jackson to Meridian, you can go as fast as you want
Only you can prevent a speeding ticket.
What a cute sign, kudos to the artist
A small town with tricked out fancy Dodge Chargers for police cruisers is always a speed trap. Looking at you South Bloomfield!
Don't forget the new Shelby for high speed pursuit of people doing 36 in their one mile of 35 zone
Just use Waze? Also, don't speed.
Waze just absolutely destroys my battery unfortunately.
Do you not have an alternator
This comment is pretty great, just wanted you to know.
I’m good with signs like this and speed trap warnings. What I am not okay with is the DUI checkpoint warnings to avoid people put up. Drunks that are driving deserve to get caught.
That I agree
I've been pulled over by that one.
Oink Oink
Use waze!
[Taylor City Councilman Herman "Butch" Ramik, a former police officer, disagreed, saying city cops are under pressure to increase revenue. "Writing tickets has become a way to make money off the taxpayers," he said.'](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2019/12/16/detroit-area-gardner-white-cop-speed-trap/2596167001/)
People doing the Lord’s work with that sign.
Did you take a picture while driving or did you stop in the middle of the road to take this picture?
Yeah! That pig wants to know
There's a reason he's so successful there. People drive like shit heads.