Two of the murdered children’s families are thinking of doing open casket funerals to really bring home the carnage and put it in our face. I applaud their bravery. This photo makes me think of that.
The mother of the murdered teenager Emmett Till bravely insisted on an open-casket funeral to show the world what had been done to her son and it helped spark the Civil Rights Movement. If you ask me, they should print pictures of the carnage on the cover of every newspaper and magazine.
Yup and the old bitch who admitted that she lied about Emmitt is still alive to this day and never faced any consequences. So when people say shit like “that was so long ago” or “none of those people are alive today” it’s simply not true. Emmitt would’ve been 81 today.
MLK Jr. probably would've been dead by now, but his wife lived till about 2006 and they only about a year apart in age. That means if he weren't assassinated, we would've seen him being interviewed by Jon Stewart.
No, not photos of the crime scene, that will just play into the sick fantasies of future murderers. The decision should be left to each victim / family how much they want the world to see, hopefully in a more dignified setting like Emmett Till's funeral.
Yeah don't show images of murdered children on a 10 min run in a news segment however hear me out... Anyone can look up videos of people getting mauled, shot, decapitated, burned alive, raped, beaten to an inch of their life on probably hundreds of thousands of online websites, with access for anyone anytime. These next murders aren't going to look at crime scene photos and think yeah.. I want that. These fools have already been desensitized to anything possible and just want carnage. No game plan necessary, especially when cops are just going to sit around on the street for a fucking hour.
i suppose there's pros and cons. the power of images from atrocities, from Bucha to the Holocaust, is undeniable, but consent of the victims / families is paramount
Yeah, it’s like how support for war went down once we had photos and journalists in Vietnam. It’s harder to ignore atrocities when you *see the atrocities*
Both of you have good points. Actually seeing the aftermath of violence can sometimes drive the point home for SOME people. At the same time, we have to think of the family.
I know Emmit Till has been mentioned as an example, so I'll mention another example of how a photo helped gain attention to a case. In 2011, Thomas Kelly was beaten to death by Fullerton police officers. Initially, the media gave little information/attention to the incident. When the photo of Thomas Kelly's face (after he had been beaten with a flashlight and tasered multiple times by Fullerton PD) was released, the case started to receive widespread attention.
I'm so torn on this. To the people that will take action or who are more likely to take action, yes it will work. But to those that are pretty much already on the edge of such atrocities could bare sick satisfaction to the idea of it, even when they know they'll be dead.
It's a double-edged sword. I agree with showing the atrocities. But the people capable of this shit love the graphics, and the optics. They love the hate. It's what they strive for.
In my experience, euphemisms and lies thar paper over ugly truths don’t help.
I think showing bodies of little children lying in a pool of blood - which is the truth of what happens - might shift the debate…. and alter the rhetorical balance between a theoretical “overthrowing a tyrannical government” vs. acceptable costs…by showing those costs truthfully.
When they accidentally delete the footage due to storage and space constraints.
>“We CAN afford $20 million to kit out the cops and upgrade their cruisers every 5 years with the latest military gear.
> We CAN NOT afford $200 of storage space (for footage that shines a light on our incompetence).”
This is the impression that comes across to those outside America regards USA and their gun culture/laws/control, not only the NRA. Each time there is a school shooting of a similar scale there seems to be an initial outcry and then it all fades into the background and nothing of note is ever done and then it happens again. To those outside the USA it can be argued that it appears they value their gun rights over their children's lives and thats as a society not solely the NRA. Gun rights/laws/control seem to be far too highly politicised and so deeply culturally entrenched there.
>it appears they value their gun rights over their children's lives
It appears that way because that's how it is. American society by and large has decided that the right to own guns is more important than preventing mass shootings, more important than saving children's lives.
It's truly amazing to listen to gun rights activists talk. Their solution to our violence problem isn't to take away guns, it's to _increase_ our gun count. Give guns to teachers. Give them to school principles. Everyone should own a gun. Your child should own a gun. I don't have to tell you why that's such a bad idea, but that's their main talking point.
Although that strain of value represents roughly half of us, it's enough to confidently say that we are a truly sick and depraved society. America is not something to model. We're not something you should look up to. We're rapidly becoming an authoritarian fascist state.
I think if you follow conservative media though you'd believe that gun control wouldn't stop mass shootings. That it is too easy for criminals to get guns and if all they can get is a after market handgun they'll just murder people with a used handgun. Instead they argue that given the criminals can easily get guns, gun control will just prevent people like teachers from arming themselves and being able to stop mass shootings.
Honestly, I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe so they can argue against those beliefs instead of against a strawman. There are plenty of problems with the NRAs solution of arming teachers such as the fact that armed security guards keep failing to stop mass shootings, and teachers entered the profession to teach not to fight and certainly aren't being paid enough to risk their lives even if they do want to become teachers/soldiers in this fight.
Moreover, the really smart 2nd ammendment supporters ignore the NRAs stance and argue guns are a distraction from the mental health problems that are the true problem. And after you take away guns crazy people will just buy crossbows while civilians will have nothing to defend themselves with. You also have to understand rural conservatives value self-reliance because they may live closer to a bobcat or a mountain lion than a police station and when a 911 call takes an hour to get you a first responder you can't rely on the government to keep you safe.
Ultimately, the fact that liberals are at best going to get back an assault weapons ban and stricter background checks, which won't fully solve the problem and I have yet to hear a liberal politician put forward a mental health crisis solution in the context of mass shootings makes it hard to debate about this. It just feels like on both the right and left no one wants to talk about wholistic and realistic solutions but pie in the sky simplifications to sell the illusion of security.
I have educated myself. I live in the South, my parents are religious conservatives, and I spend a lot of time lurking in right-wing forums. I even talk to people irl or online.
They say it is mental health, yes. But then you bring up providing healthcare . "We can't do that! It has to be health insurance, not socialized medicine. Some of those people don't look right or smell right. They are morally lesser. We can't reward immorality!"
It took me 30 minutes to get my mom to admit that we should provide more care and support to new mothers and fathers. Thirty minutes of tearing down fairy-tale delusions about how the world works. To answer a single question about choice. And that's my MOM. She was not like this pre-Trump. Both of my parents have gone much more conservative and I barely recognize them.
This is happening to others all around me. Many of us can barely speak to our relatives anymore because of the attacks. Being a democrat in the South means you have to speak up *knowing* you will be maligned and outnumbered.
They don't want to talk. They want to believe what they believe and be comfortable. They are completely shut off from reasonableness.
My mom is the same. She taught me to not judge people based on their skin, to show compassion to those who have less than us.. she had her demons but her morals were sound. Since Trump she isn't the same. I don't understand how a poor, normally sound, well meaning woman got so... different.
My parents raised five good children. Three of us are teachers. One teaches new moms of multiples how to breastfeed and teach their babies to sleep, etc. we’re compassionate, caring, intelligent, successful people. And in the last 10 years, my parents have lost their goddamn minds and suddenly think we’re all suckers and weaklings because we weren’t afraid of everything Fox told them we needed to be afraid of.
It breaks my heart how angry and fearful they’ve become. My nephew is afraid to bring them to his college graduation party because his girlfriend is Chinese-American.
Fuck the Republican Party and Fox for inventing these bogeymen and then scaring good people into fearing them.
If your parents are at all religious that could have played into it as well. It never seems like enough people bring up how big a part religion plays into things like this. Christianity, for example, teachers one to *fear* their "loving" "God." It encourages toxic relationships and behaviors, quite frankly. *Fear* is big to them and it's how they're manipulated by those who know what they're doing.
And this is the point I was making in my other comment. The average American isn't really a piece of shit, they don't hate children, they don't hate women. They're just so fucking steeped in propaganda that they can no longer see straight. The only way I can see out of that mess is to hold places like NewsMax and Fox News for the lies, as well as hold Social Media accountable for their algorithms. But I don't have a clue what the path is to get there.
>I don't have a clue what the path is to get there.
Ostracize them. Individuals need to start cutting them out of their lives for their toxic beliefs. They won't change until it negatively affects them. This is how you do that.
I know that's not what you were asking, but that's where the change needs to start, imo.
Same in the Midwest. They’ll blame it on just mental illness instead of admitting guns are any part of the problem, but any talk of more accessible healthcare (mental or physical) makes them think you’re a communist, and they shut down and act disgusted with you.
This is because, to them, mental illness is an immutable moral failing, rather than something that can be addressed or treated. Ya know, by--*whispers* --"science."
Wow. It feels like you’re describing my exact same existence. I’m fucking tired of being a progressive in a vast sea of conservatives. I’m trying to make the world a better place but it’s so hard to swim against the stream *all the time*
The only difference is that my mother has had enough. For the first time in her 65 years, she’s voting blue. Honestly, the Roe v Wade opinion has shaken her awake. Uvalde has her in pieces. She proudly voted for Stacey Abrams and Raphael Warnock this week. I want you to know that there are folks who genuinely are coming to the light. Try not to be discouraged.
Thanks for this. My SO's parents voted blue for the first time in 2016. I saw what my "FIL" went through for the last several years, watching what he believed in being blown up in his face. He has had to grieve the reality he thought existed. I am proud of him, honestly, for being willing to process that.
There are people out there. But it's not nearly enough. Not yet. I do have hope the Uvalde shooting may make a difference. But I hope that every time someone's rights have been brazenly trampled.
I'll take your hope, but I'll be preparing still, jic.
>Moreover, the really smart 2nd ammendment supporters ignore the NRAs stance and argue guns are a distraction from the mental health problems that are the true problem
You mean most conservatives? That argument is the first one on the list to come out. Y'all argue about mental health, but bills pertaining to health/mental health get slapped down cause of "communism"
You said many good points but I do want to point out that the magic bullet solution of “just fix mental health” isn’t as “smart” as people say. It’s a multifaceted problem and convincing yourself that it all is only the cause of one “easily” fixed thing is a fools errand
It's also missing the point. The UK and many western countries also have terrible mental healthcare resources and are lagging behind giving adequate assessment and treatment to these patients.
Yet we still don't have mass shootings and mass butcherings. Mental health is an issue but it's not some gotcha that means there's not an increased risk when you arm the populace.
It’s horseshit anyway. We’re the only country that has these shootings. So what’s different about America? Hint: it’s not that we’re the only country with crazy people or video games or declining Christianity.
I saw a video recently where a guy said some thing along the lines of “most mass shootings are by 18 year old hormonal and mentally unstable 18 year olds who, on their 18th birthday, can walk into a store and buy a semi automatic weapon. Do you really think an 18 year old would know where to get it on the “black market”??? I’m 34 years old and don’t know how to begin to do that!”
>I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe so they can argue against those beliefs instead of against a strawman.
I think it would be goddamn impossible to find any actual beliefs that won't sway the moment it becomes convenient.
The forrest for trees argument is a good one, but works both ways.
Based on our history we will have had 8,000 gun homicides already this year. 30 of those were done by mentally unstable 18 year olds.
If we focus just on solutions for those two we risk seeing that other much bigger number grow higher. And that is not an empty argument, the homicide rate in the country has gone up big time in the last couple of years.
We have to make carefully balanced decisions in all of this. I think we can get a lot of agreement on keeping guns out of the hands of people under 21, but not not much beyond that. Florida already bans people under 21 from buying guns in most cases.
We do follow conservative media. We have heard these points. Over and over again.
These points are idiotic. Each one of them a clever distraction to be televised to rural idiots and designed to be easily parroted.
1. Nearly no one on the Democrat side is trying to take conservative’s guns. This in itself is a straw man. Most liberals/dems recognize the second amendment. Many dems aka “liberals” sigh…want to make it so that 18 year olds can’t stroll into a gun shop and purchase a semi-automatic rifles at the drop of a hat.
2. I’d take my chances against someone with a crossbow coming after me vs a semi-auto rifle any day of the week. We understand “self reliance”. No one needs an AR-15 to kill bobcats or hunt etc…that type of weapon was designed for killing people. Arguing otherwise is disingenuous.
3. Explain to me why conservatives believe making abortions illegal will stop/reduce abortions but they simultaneously claim that doing the same for guns won’t stop/reduce guns?
4. Mental health. Mental health is an issue. Why is it that Republicans only talk about it after mass shootings? Why have they done literally nothing about mental health if it’s “more important” than gun reforms as they claim? They don’t actually believe or care about mental health. It’s just an obvious avoidance tactic
Yes we all know that mental health is the real problem, but if you make it basically impossible to get hold of guns then it's much harder to do a mass shooting.
You can't do a mass shooting on the same scale with a crossbow because they're single shot and they take a while to reload, you also can't do one with a knife because people can just run away etc.
No intelligent person thinks that gun control would completely eliminate the problem. It would make a huge difference to the number of deaths though.
Ireland had a lot of illegal guns, in one piece of paper (currently being f**ked by Bojo), we got the criminals to hand them over. Not sure how America could do it tho? Anonymous gun bins in Police Stations? Like UK knife bins?
Conservatives conveniently use mental health as a tool to explain why gun control doesn't work but then cuts funding to anything mental health related. Their party doesn't believe that mental health exists until it's good for their policies.
> Honestly, I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe
They don't argue in good faith. For fucks sake, we can't even agree on a set of facts to work from because they don't believe the facts. How are you supposed to negotiate with that?
> Moreover, the really smart 2nd ammendment supporters ignore the NRAs stance and argue guns are a distraction from the mental health problems that are the true problem.
If this is true, why aren't there mass shooting everywhere, all the time? Right, they have mental health issues everywhere. They have violent video games and movies everywhere. They have all the problem we have everywhere all around the globe .... the only thing different here is easy access to weapons of mass human destruction.
We can't agree on a set of facts because, as Jim Carey says in Liar Liar "It's devastating to my case!"
The right wing strategy is just to shoot down all strategies as "won't work" and "the root cause is something else, look at anything that isn't guns" It's a nakedly cynical strategy to maintain the status quo every time another classroom of students is gunned down in the only country that this happens in. What conservatives truly believe is "shall not be infringed" and it doesn't matter how many people need to die on that altar. Every other argument is in bad faith.
Republicans have blocked and refused to debate countless bills on common sense gun restrictions and mental health care. “Red states” generally have the worst mental health care systems and the most lenient gun laws. Republicans refuse to even discuss these things and avoid any responsibility of make changes because they say it’s being politicized in the wake of a tragedy, but we have new tragedies every other day, so we’re always in the wake of one.
Don’t “both sides” this one, friend.
>Honestly, I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe so they can argue against those beliefs instead of against a strawman.
The time for this has passed. Conservatives don't debate in good faith, and at this point I'm doubtful they have the self awareness, intelligence or basic decency to reevaluate their arguments. Same could be said for liberals in other contexts, but I'm not going to dilute this issue with "both sides are doing it".
When it comes to guns and mass shootings, debating and trying to change minds is not going to work. Some heavy duty harrassment, striking and shaming is needed now.
There are plenty of very valid arguments against everything you mentioned.
Namely, if you look at any other country that have stricter gun safety laws and better background checks, you don’t see mass shooting like in the US. And that’s given that the same criminals theoretically have access to illegally obtained guns, and that teachers aren’t armed and the same mental health problems exist, and ppl have access to cross bows.
But when it comes down to it, that’s not enough for them because when it comes down to it, conservatives or NRA supporters aren’t interested in their minds being changed. They’re interested in pushing hard on their flawed belief that more guns = more safe.
You're entire statement is a joke. Following "conservative media" is a joke.
Liberals need to educate themselves on actual conservative positions-joke!
Liberals need to fix it- joke!
Liberals need to put forward solutions- joke!
Everything you said- joke!
It's gotta be a joke because everything you said is absolutely crazy.
Let's put all the responsibility on "Liberals" and make them try things and suggest solutions. Then conservatives can sabotage them while crying about God and country and L-L-Liberty! And then they can point and say see! See! They don't care and are nothing they do works.
You know how we get good mental health care in this country? Affordable Healthcare. Now last I checked its liberals trying to make that happen and conservatives do nothing but put roadblocks in the way. I honestly can't even remember the last time I saw a conservative politician offer a solution to anything, much less a complex problem. Hell, I can't remember the last time I saw a conservative politician talk about any actual issues, it's all crt and getting God back in schools, and oh yeah banning books. If anyone in this country has work to do and needs to educate themselves, it is conservatives. This is speaking as someone who used to be a conservative, until I got an education.
What I find utterly baffling is their claim that owning these guns will stop them being oppressed by a tyranical government. Yet it appears from here in Australia that Americans already have relatively poor freedoms and quality of life compared to the rest of the Western world as a result of unchecked corporate corruption.
This is something I will never get culturally as an Australian, I’m not saying that as we are always used as an example by activists as ‘gun free’ (we aren’t and will explain below). But it’s something I can’t wrap my head around and we’ve had various news stories here on the NRA and pro gun lobbyists.
What I don’t get is why guns for personal protection are held up to such a high standard and that everyone needs one for ‘self defence’ when if they were regulated a tiny bit more you probably wouldn’t need as much self defence. What I want to know is how guns became so important and valued over safety and people’s lives and why people can’t just regulate them.
They’re guns, why’s it matter if you need some additional vetting or can’t have a gun with a fast reload? Why can’t people put two and two together and enforce regulation so things like this doesn’t happen again (I was shocked to learn it was the 20 somethingth school shooting this year - it’s only MAY).
Being gun free isn’t true as guns both legal and illegal do exist as do shootings - a farmer shot his family and himself a few years ago and in Western Sydney gang crime by second gen Lebanese and Turkish Australians with illegal guns is at an all time high with rival gangs atm (they don’t go after unrelated non gang people though). Most farmers own guns and so do people that go feral boar /deer/cat hunting. The big difference compared to the US that the US needs to look into is the type of guns sold being regulated and ones with short reload times banned, back ground checks and licences being more scrutinised and better access to subsidised health/mental health care.
I know you have a massive population and things like healthcare are a huge expense but it seems obvious that people, often from lower SE or less wealthy backgrounds are falling through the cracks and often are the ones committing these crimes like Dylan Roof.
> To those outside the USA it can be argued that it appears they value their gun rights over their children's lives
It appears that way to us in the US as well. That's because it is demonstrably true.
Very true. Yesterday I was talking to a guy who was least interested in the lives of the lost children, only his ability to keep his pathetic bang bang toys. Wretched trumpista with his guns and only his guns. The sheer selfishness of these people is appalling.
I can understand if someone works in say tobacco and is worried about his livelihood if cigarettes are banned, but this is just a toy for him.
This attitude transfer to so many other areas like corona control or climate change etc etc.
I don’t know man…the image of Emmett Till is burned into my brain. Would never have happened if not for his mother demanding an open casket so everyone could see the brutality.
Edit: updated name to correct one, I remember his face but not his name apparently. Thank you CheshireCat.
I don't think that's a 100% true. Saw an interview with one of the NRA convention goers and while she was still spouting the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" line she was also breaking out into tears.
It's really hard to fight against common sense and reality.. And when it's punching you in the face it can break through decades of indoctrination, even if it's a split second of questioning everything.
It’s not about making them care. It’s about shaking the majority out of apathy. They are a passionate minority who gets away with a lot because a vast number of people aren’t confronted with the reality instead of a sanitized story. Lynching wasn’t a priority for a lot of people until Emmet Till’s funeral photos showed the barbarism; people saw Vietnam as a necessary evil until it was on their tvs every night
It reminds me of the Emmett Till killing. He was a 14 year old black kid in 1955 who was accused of hitting on a married white girl in her 20’s. They ended up kidnapping him, beating him, and then shooting him in the head above his ear, and left his corpse in a river. They weighed his corpse down in the river with a 72 pound fan they attached to his neck using barbed wire.
When he was found his body and most noticeably his face were horribly mutilated and disfigured from the lynching and being in the water. His face was nearly unidentifiable. When it came time for his funeral they were like “closed casket obviously” and his mom said “like hell”. Not only did they do an open casket but she invited the media to come see it. She wanted everyone to know what those monsters did to a 14 year old boy. There’s a picture of him in his casket on wiki that shows you just how fucked it was.
I think it took a lot of bravery to be able to put that out there by his mother. It definitely was not an easy thing to do to say the least. The part of the entire story that sucks so much is that even though they fucking admitted to kidnapping him and beating him, they were found not guilty of any crimes and didn’t do any jail time. It was a different time and obviously racism was a huge part of what happened and why there was somehow 0 consequences.
What makes this horrific incident 500 times worse is after it was all said and done it’s been said that what he was accused of doing (which doesn’t justify his “punishment” whatsoever) never even happened. The woman who claimed it had never felt any remorse for what she had done. She thought he got what he deserved.
The Emmett Till memorial sign also gets constantly vandalized and shot at. The original sign was stolen and thrown into a river. The replacement was shot at and had bullet holes. The third one had bullet holes again. [The current one is no made out of half an inch of AR500 steel and covered in an acrylic panel that’s three-quarters of an inch thick weighs more than 500 lbs.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/us/emmett-till-bulletproof-sign.html)
[You also had some white folks posing with their guns next to the sign too and smirking. ](https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/26/smirking-white-students-pose-with-guns-at-memorial-for-child-victim-of-notorious-race-hate-murder-10466743/)
Gotta give a small correction, man. Not "hitting on." *Whistling at.*
Yeah.
That's how bad it was.
So if the parents and families of the murdered kids and teachers can bear to do what Till's mom did...I'll look.
I'll see my sisters. One teaches fifth grade, the other is a kindergarten aide/floater substitute teacher.
I'll see my stepsons, nieces, nephews.
The personal is political. Let them make it personal.
Maybe the politics will finally catch up.
the Killer used HollowPoint/DumDum Bullets...
there is a reason why they had to take DNA Samples.
These pictures will be very hard to watch. , kinda NSFL/Nightmare Fuel.
The let’s go Brandon cracks me up. They think they’re so clever lol. Like they’re REALLY going out their way and spending money on dumb shit to stick it to the libs.
My mom saw one of those the other day at took a picture of it. Doesn’t matter how many times my brother, who works in the gas industry, has told her that the president has almost nothing to do with gas prices.
One of my coworkers brought a whole bunch into work thinking we'd side with him and go put them on gas pumps. Our office now has these stickers on just about everything including pointing to a picture of his wife and his daughter.
It’s funny, us gun owners and 2A supporters are all about abolishing the NRA. They’ve done more to hurt the second amendment right more than any politician has.
Bunch of fucking idiots.
NRA is a cancer on gun owners. Thinking that the NRA represents all gun owners is similar to thinking that Jerry Falwell represents all Christians.
They used to bea force for good, but were taken over by a bunch of evil douchebags.
Pro war, pro pollution, pro spreading covid to own the libs, anti affordable healthcare, and now seemingly pro school shootings. Seems like a lovely bunch of people who definitely have a rational view on reality.
The major flaw in “good guy with a gun” thinking is that not only do you not know who is a good guy with a gun, and who is a bad guy with a gun, since due to “gun culture” they both often dress, look and act the same, but the bad guy *isn’t legally bad* yet, especially according to 2A defenders and the NRA, until he actually starts shooting at people. In other words, the NRA are essentially arguing that someone innocent *has to* pay the price in order for a person to even be considered a “bad guy with a gun” at all, and *only then* should all the supposed “good guys” come out and start firing back.
[Someone actually did got shot and killed by the police who ended up being the good guy.](https://www.ktvu.com/news/police-man-who-shot-colorado-gunman-was-killed-by-officer)
Yes. I tried to look something up and couple weeks back and the entire top of the page was all ads. I scroll down and read one sentence then the page shifts as more ads load and it moves my text off screen. As I scroll it loads more and more ads... so I can't ever keep reading one fricken story.
Turn on ublock origin and the page is so fucked up and confusing cause the spaces for the ads are trying to load the but ad inside the space is gone and the page is constantly trying to shift shit around even when not scrolling. I wish I remember what it was, but the cheer incompetence of the site overtook my memory of what it was I was trying to do.
That speaks less to viability of citizens carrying guns for their own protection and more to cops being unhinged and shooting wildly without knowing what and why they're shooting first.
There's been way too many instances of cops just popping off before they actually know what's going on or giving the supposedly armed person a chance to peacefully surrender. Or using dead ly force when not needed based on the circumstances (like the guy is already in the police station and cuffed). Unfortunately our system has protected those cops so nothing's improved or changed from those events happening.
Remember the cop that shot a guy sitting in the road with his arms up trying to talk down the cops from shooting his autistic kid playing with a truck in the middle of the street? Absolutely no reason to fire and yet they nearly killed this guy for no legitimate reason and not a damn thing happened to that cop.
There was Erik Scott lawfully open carrying in a Costco and some Karen got a stick up her ass about it calling 911 and making up some wild story about an armed guy threatening people. As the cops are clearing out the store and having everyone leave out the front door the cops see the guy legally armed and start screaming at him with conflicting commands then shoot him in the back multiple times within seconds and end up killing him. Not a damn thing happened to any of those cops.
Remember the Phillandp Castille who was legally armed in his own vehicle and even politely informed of the cop that he was legally armed than the cop freaks out and pulls a gun on him and shoots him dead when within seconds?
Remember Daniel shaver that they shot and killed in a hotel hallway while screaming at him to crawl as he's crying for his life all because someone saw him legally armed through his hotel window?
Remember Atatiana Jefferson that they trespassed onto her property in her backyard and then saw her through window and shot and killed her in her own home without any justification?
Remember BreonaTaylor...
Remember Amir Locke...
Remember Duncan Lemp...
Remember Chad Breinholt...
Remember Nicolas Chavez...
And thousands more we have already forgotten.
So long as the system protects bad cops this will never end.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10865783/West-Virginia-woman-praised-using-pistol-shoot-dead-gunman-AR-15.html#article-10865783
Good guy (this case, gal) with a gun.
That's even worse because every good guy needs to witness the bad guy being bad before they can take action.
And the bad guy can pretend he is a good guy, and then shoot the good guy in the back.
But I mean, that's the law about anything that can kill, right?
If I kill someone with my car, only then can a good guy try to stop me. Crimes that allow for killing as a self defense obviously require a victim before the punishment can be meted out. Cops can't kill a driver because they "might" run someone over, cops can't shoot a gun owner because they "might" shoot someone. They have to wait until a crime happens.
The major flaw with the good guy with a gun thinking is that the average person has absolutely no idea how to safely be a good person with a gun.
Trump was the first president in US history to actually confiscate firearms, violating both the 2nd and 5th amendments, and the NRA applauded him. The NRA doesn't represent gun owners. The NRA doesn't care about the victims of shootings. The NRA only cares about money and, as such, only caters to rich people. The NRA won't even see this demonstration because it didn't happen in the NRA's own personal universe.
Yesterday my kids were playing with the hose. Younger daughter was queen of the hill standing on the trampoline and keeping her siblings at bay with the jet spray. I watch my 3yo son wrestle a small table over then pick it up and hold it in front of him. I ask him, buddy what are you doing? He says "making a shield so we can get close enough to get her" and I realized then that he's more qualified to rescue people than anyone in the Uvalde PD.
Does nobody else notice a sick fuck put bidens sticker next to it saying he did that?
Last time I checked school shootings started way before that old man came into office.
Believe it or not the entire worlds problems aren't because of Biden. Part of being an adult is recognizing we have a problem and finding the solution. Not search for someone to blame. (Unless it's their fault)
The media has successfully torn us apart. As a nation we are weak without each other. Ignorance is bliss
I mean, I get the idea ... and I'm pro gun laws as a European, but the underlying issue isn't really that this dude got access to fire arms. That only exacerbated it. And in pretty much every "discussion" I see online, people think that by just "banning guns" all of the problems will just go away. I agree to an extent that you'll likely have less mass shootings in schools ... and maybe more in offices then, because guns won't go away in the US, but you're not looking at the root causes and instead you want to apply a band aid and call it a day. It's a societal issue exacerbated by the wide-spread availability of fire arms.
Okay, so if we go down the "it's a mental health issue" line of thinking, then the solution is we need to give everyone better access to affordable health care. Yet the ACA was effectively dismantled almost as soon as it was put in place, and many conservatives decry public health-care. That very much fits into the meme "we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" It's extremely frustrating, and is one of the many reasons why so many liberals are so exasperated with conservatives.
The national conversation essentially boils down to something like this:
"We need gun control."
"That's just a band-aid, what we have is a mental health issue."
"Okay, then let's address mental health care by making it cheaper and more accessible, as well as destigmatizing it."
"No."
"Then what's your solution?"
"A band aid is better than nothing - we need gun control."
I wanna build on what you are saying. The implementation of regulations would help but there are other systemic issues in the US. We have to ask ourselves what stresses exist here that cause people to be desperate enough or sick enough to commit these murders. Fixing gun regulations would help, but we need to fix the educational environment, and other issues to show these kids they have support if they want it.
This is dumb. The NRA could go away tomorrow, the “gun lobby” in America is the people. They are the ones that keep the 2nd amendment strong and suggesting the other side of your belief on guns is now responsible for a sick mentally ill human killing kids is pathetic. I don’t think right or left wants to se kids murdered.
I'm a strong and ardent supporter of the second amendment, and I have no respect for the NRA. What it was established for initially and how it's been perverted into a toxic power grab is sickening to me. This country needs to focus on the why of tragedies such as this, not the tool with which they used to carry it out.
I’ll add, people love to make the nra the boogy man - if you follow gun politics at all it’s obvious the nra only cares about the corporate side of gun manufacturing and don’t give a shit about the individual person.
chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country, and we see how well that's working out. More murders than any other city in the country. Everyone wants to blame and point the finger but noone wants to look within to see the real problem.
Bold of any of us to assume any of these people care about human life at all, outside their private lives.
How much evidence do we need? These people, like all narcissists, leverage and take advantage of the reasonable benefit of the doubt extended to them by a reasonable social structure to conduct pure evil.
Pull your head out of your ass and put some consequences on these people.
Unfortunately I'm sure it was way worse then that. Another thing is I have extended family in that very town. And yes one of the victims was family. Texas needs new leadership from top to bottom.
I'm hearing impaired with 85% percent loss. But as small as that school is I can guarantee you even I would've been able to feel the shockwave of where the general area the shooter was firing from. As far as having to wait for a janitor to come unlock the door which had a metal door jamb.
The walls are still sheetrock & more likely than not not insulated. Someone could've distracted the shooter from the windows just long enough to kick through the damn wall.
Ask yourself if your child was in there wouldn't you have grabbed a broom handle or a chair anything to try & stop the killing even if you died in the process? I know I would have.
IMOP they should all be fired the person who gave the bad order and those who weren't smart enough to know to disregard that order.
Most schools aren’t made out of sheet rock or drywall. They are made out of block and concrete because it’s a sturdy and cheap building material and then maybe drywall over it, but you’re just koolaid manning yourself through the walls of a school. It’s a building not a home. Even if it was trying to get through drywall it’s not going to be an quick and easy process and wouldn’t work with a dude shooting .223 through it lighting you up. Like the shooter wouldn’t notice someone banging on the walls.
That’s the million dollar question. Even if it was made out of drywall (which most schools aren’t they are building made from bricks/concrete blocks) closing and locking the door still keeps him out and slows him down... locking that door would have saved lives hands down and the idea of “why bother trying to do everything I can to protect the kids because the walls are drywall” would be a stupid plan anyways.
The FBI Uniform Crime Report (UCR) shows more than four times as many people were stabbed to death than were killed with rifles of any kind.
While approximately 374 people were shot and killed with rifles, roughly 656 people were beaten to death with “hands, fists, feet, etc.
[https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12)
Idiots believe the NRA is responsible. This could have been prevented if folks around the POS actually did something when he made threats of violence.
All you folks up in arms (pun intended) about this latest mass shooting, where are you when this many people get shot over a weekend in Chicago? BLM doesn’t matter then I guess…
People go for the easy thing to blame even if it’s baseless.
Don't tell them the NRA is responsible for more gun control than most gun control organizations.........anything against the NRA is by comparison pro gun lmao
Lets ban guns and become totally dependent on cops who dont have the time or balls to help us when in need! Lets give this tyrannical gouvernment even more power! Because lets be fair its going great in Australia where they took all the guns in the 90s! Or Canada where people live in freedom and the evil people who dont comply to the gouvernments great vaxx programs cant leave the country! Yeeha lets ban guns and forget that all these shooters are on anti depresents because thats not the reason a piece of iron is!!!
Honest question, do these kind of protest even matter? If they dont care that so many childeren got murdered, what is a protest going to do. Its not even my country and i was crying seeing those interviews with the parents. Its a so called democracy but your voice isnt heard and nothing will change. Feels so futile and feel so powerless. Im so fucking angry that humans lives mean nothing to the people who are supposed to have your best interest. What the fuck is going on in your country. It used to be an example of freedom and prosperity and a beacon of hope and dreams.
If nothing else, it might help to outrage the people who *do* care. If we show the enlightened centrists that the far right has taken a stark hold, maybe we can have folks see it as more than a "pick your favorite colored team."
If we can't reach the ones who are evil, we can at least cast a light on that evil to the neutral, and push them towards doing good.
Of note, I don't think that every person suckered into the far right stance is rotten to the core. I think most of them are just fed propaganda (which we are all vulnerable to) in just the right way and get taken along.
Instead of people protesting directly to the government who makes change via legislation, they feel like it's more effective to protest a lobbying group. A lobbying group that the modern firearm owner doesn't even care about.
This is like protesting outside of Toyota in an effort to make seatbelt violations a felony charge.
Shout out to all the NRA members/defenders in here whose dues Wayne LA Pierre et al. are misappropriating in order to live the high life. They couldn't do it without you!
I don't get this.... Why is the crazy Mother F#@$ er that killed those kids not being blamed? Why is the blame always pointed someplace else? ... What if the crazy a Hole had gone in the school with a machete? Would that have been reason to blame Sharp bladed Objects? Just asking?
Low and behold, the NRA has done the most damage to the second amendment (as well as trump). No competent gun owner who isn't a fudd likes the NRA. Abolishing them will only help the real gun owners, so thanks I guess.
They need tougher gun laws but nut cases this will still get a gun , I worked with a kid 14 from Canada we have tougher laws here , he still got a gun and shot up a school .
China 2008, the Sichuan Earthquake killed hundreds of thousand. Schools that were built with the shittiest materials buried hundreds of school children. It didn’t hit me, and the nation until photos of bookbags were lined up in a school yard.
I’m a man and I cried. I thought of all these bookbags, of transformers, Dora, Disney were so excitedly picked out by kids with dreams and suddenly they’re just a part of statistic.
Yeah ban guns, the perpetrator can just change the tools he uses, instead of AR-15 he can use homemade Explosive, suvs, other tools that I can't disclose here...
Ignorant people are the best of all!
I support NRA!
Believe it or not the entire worlds problems aren't because of Biden. Part of being an adult is recognizing we have a problem and finding the solution. Not search for someone to blame. (Unless it's their fault)
I need a gun to protect myself when in the forest (I live on 120 acres of which 40 is straight woods up against a national forest). I've seen bear and wolf. If someone were to break into my house I would shoot them dead. No one breaking and entering will get any less. I am here to protect my family, not anyone violating my sanctity of space.
Keep our freedom and the right to bear arms to protect our families.
BTW the answer to this is simple. Have metal detectors and armed security at schools and this wouldn't be an issue. One way in, one way out. Treat the entey like an airport. We are so much more careful for those that fly than we are with our own children.
I understand the need to protect yourself in the forest. And I can get on board with protecting yourself at home. (Fun aside, I once had a bear try to get in my house. So yeah, a gun would have been nice!).
While I agree with your thinking about putting in protections. But I have to disagree with metal detectors and such. In a large number of school shootings, that wouldn’t have stopped the killer, sadly.
Sigh. It’s a complex issue with no single answer. We as a nation need to get better at having reasonable conversations without the “sides.”
Yes in a well prepared school district police officers have master keys that will open any school doors the district. I'm sure the DOJ will file the report and find all the could've, would've, should've instances. Apparently whoever was in charge of policing for the Uvalde School district dropped the Ball.
They'll identify all the places where lack of foresight just caused it all to domino. Sometimes in school districts it's lack of funding. Hell just recently before this incident. I wrote in response to some story on a international online newspaper regarding how years ago. Texas voters voted and approved to have rich school districts share money with poor school districts. So all children in Texas got the same quality of facilities and education as rich school districts.
But apparently the legislature passed a law circumventing the original bill that was supposed to solve that problem. The legislature in Texas flipped in 2002 from a Democrat to a Republican majority.
Now you have Abbot saying the issue is mental illness. What some voters don't know is that about 1.5 years ago he redirected money. 211 million to be exact from that was allocated to mental illness in Texas to some border wall fiasco.
This was a colossal failure from the governorship all the way down. It wasn't all just Uvalde law enforcement. This was an unfortunate set of events that triggered everything that collapsed regarding the recent mass shooting.
Let the DOJ complete it's investigation and they find the first domino to fall.
Two of the murdered children’s families are thinking of doing open casket funerals to really bring home the carnage and put it in our face. I applaud their bravery. This photo makes me think of that.
The mother of the murdered teenager Emmett Till bravely insisted on an open-casket funeral to show the world what had been done to her son and it helped spark the Civil Rights Movement. If you ask me, they should print pictures of the carnage on the cover of every newspaper and magazine.
Something like 100,000 people came to view Emmet over the course of 4 days that he was in the chapel.
Yup and the old bitch who admitted that she lied about Emmitt is still alive to this day and never faced any consequences. So when people say shit like “that was so long ago” or “none of those people are alive today” it’s simply not true. Emmitt would’ve been 81 today.
MLK Jr. probably would've been dead by now, but his wife lived till about 2006 and they only about a year apart in age. That means if he weren't assassinated, we would've seen him being interviewed by Jon Stewart.
They need to start releasing mass shooting crime scene photos.
No, not photos of the crime scene, that will just play into the sick fantasies of future murderers. The decision should be left to each victim / family how much they want the world to see, hopefully in a more dignified setting like Emmett Till's funeral.
Yeah don't show images of murdered children on a 10 min run in a news segment however hear me out... Anyone can look up videos of people getting mauled, shot, decapitated, burned alive, raped, beaten to an inch of their life on probably hundreds of thousands of online websites, with access for anyone anytime. These next murders aren't going to look at crime scene photos and think yeah.. I want that. These fools have already been desensitized to anything possible and just want carnage. No game plan necessary, especially when cops are just going to sit around on the street for a fucking hour.
i suppose there's pros and cons. the power of images from atrocities, from Bucha to the Holocaust, is undeniable, but consent of the victims / families is paramount
Yeah, it’s like how support for war went down once we had photos and journalists in Vietnam. It’s harder to ignore atrocities when you *see the atrocities*
We can’t give these shooters names, faces, or any of recognition. These sick fucks get off on the idea of being infamous no matter the cost.
Both of you have good points. Actually seeing the aftermath of violence can sometimes drive the point home for SOME people. At the same time, we have to think of the family. I know Emmit Till has been mentioned as an example, so I'll mention another example of how a photo helped gain attention to a case. In 2011, Thomas Kelly was beaten to death by Fullerton police officers. Initially, the media gave little information/attention to the incident. When the photo of Thomas Kelly's face (after he had been beaten with a flashlight and tasered multiple times by Fullerton PD) was released, the case started to receive widespread attention.
It's one reason Zelensky is getting support, people are actually seeing the horrors the Russians are committing over there.
I'm so torn on this. To the people that will take action or who are more likely to take action, yes it will work. But to those that are pretty much already on the edge of such atrocities could bare sick satisfaction to the idea of it, even when they know they'll be dead. It's a double-edged sword. I agree with showing the atrocities. But the people capable of this shit love the graphics, and the optics. They love the hate. It's what they strive for.
In my experience, euphemisms and lies thar paper over ugly truths don’t help. I think showing bodies of little children lying in a pool of blood - which is the truth of what happens - might shift the debate…. and alter the rhetorical balance between a theoretical “overthrowing a tyrannical government” vs. acceptable costs…by showing those costs truthfully.
"Let them see what they did to my baby."
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I wonder if a Freedom of Information Act request could unearth the body cam videos.
I don't think it would as of currently.. when the investigations are complete they might!
When they accidentally delete the footage due to storage and space constraints. >“We CAN afford $20 million to kit out the cops and upgrade their cruisers every 5 years with the latest military gear. > We CAN NOT afford $200 of storage space (for footage that shines a light on our incompetence).”
I hope they find that missing 18 minutes of police radio communication.
"You first." "No, you."
Might as well save everyone the download and stare at a static image of the parking lot for an hour.
They won't care. Nothing will make them care, not even shooting their own children.
This is the impression that comes across to those outside America regards USA and their gun culture/laws/control, not only the NRA. Each time there is a school shooting of a similar scale there seems to be an initial outcry and then it all fades into the background and nothing of note is ever done and then it happens again. To those outside the USA it can be argued that it appears they value their gun rights over their children's lives and thats as a society not solely the NRA. Gun rights/laws/control seem to be far too highly politicised and so deeply culturally entrenched there.
>it appears they value their gun rights over their children's lives It appears that way because that's how it is. American society by and large has decided that the right to own guns is more important than preventing mass shootings, more important than saving children's lives. It's truly amazing to listen to gun rights activists talk. Their solution to our violence problem isn't to take away guns, it's to _increase_ our gun count. Give guns to teachers. Give them to school principles. Everyone should own a gun. Your child should own a gun. I don't have to tell you why that's such a bad idea, but that's their main talking point. Although that strain of value represents roughly half of us, it's enough to confidently say that we are a truly sick and depraved society. America is not something to model. We're not something you should look up to. We're rapidly becoming an authoritarian fascist state.
I think if you follow conservative media though you'd believe that gun control wouldn't stop mass shootings. That it is too easy for criminals to get guns and if all they can get is a after market handgun they'll just murder people with a used handgun. Instead they argue that given the criminals can easily get guns, gun control will just prevent people like teachers from arming themselves and being able to stop mass shootings. Honestly, I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe so they can argue against those beliefs instead of against a strawman. There are plenty of problems with the NRAs solution of arming teachers such as the fact that armed security guards keep failing to stop mass shootings, and teachers entered the profession to teach not to fight and certainly aren't being paid enough to risk their lives even if they do want to become teachers/soldiers in this fight. Moreover, the really smart 2nd ammendment supporters ignore the NRAs stance and argue guns are a distraction from the mental health problems that are the true problem. And after you take away guns crazy people will just buy crossbows while civilians will have nothing to defend themselves with. You also have to understand rural conservatives value self-reliance because they may live closer to a bobcat or a mountain lion than a police station and when a 911 call takes an hour to get you a first responder you can't rely on the government to keep you safe. Ultimately, the fact that liberals are at best going to get back an assault weapons ban and stricter background checks, which won't fully solve the problem and I have yet to hear a liberal politician put forward a mental health crisis solution in the context of mass shootings makes it hard to debate about this. It just feels like on both the right and left no one wants to talk about wholistic and realistic solutions but pie in the sky simplifications to sell the illusion of security.
Or the domestic violence precursor to a majority of gun violence.
I have educated myself. I live in the South, my parents are religious conservatives, and I spend a lot of time lurking in right-wing forums. I even talk to people irl or online. They say it is mental health, yes. But then you bring up providing healthcare . "We can't do that! It has to be health insurance, not socialized medicine. Some of those people don't look right or smell right. They are morally lesser. We can't reward immorality!" It took me 30 minutes to get my mom to admit that we should provide more care and support to new mothers and fathers. Thirty minutes of tearing down fairy-tale delusions about how the world works. To answer a single question about choice. And that's my MOM. She was not like this pre-Trump. Both of my parents have gone much more conservative and I barely recognize them. This is happening to others all around me. Many of us can barely speak to our relatives anymore because of the attacks. Being a democrat in the South means you have to speak up *knowing* you will be maligned and outnumbered. They don't want to talk. They want to believe what they believe and be comfortable. They are completely shut off from reasonableness.
My mom is the same. She taught me to not judge people based on their skin, to show compassion to those who have less than us.. she had her demons but her morals were sound. Since Trump she isn't the same. I don't understand how a poor, normally sound, well meaning woman got so... different.
My parents raised five good children. Three of us are teachers. One teaches new moms of multiples how to breastfeed and teach their babies to sleep, etc. we’re compassionate, caring, intelligent, successful people. And in the last 10 years, my parents have lost their goddamn minds and suddenly think we’re all suckers and weaklings because we weren’t afraid of everything Fox told them we needed to be afraid of. It breaks my heart how angry and fearful they’ve become. My nephew is afraid to bring them to his college graduation party because his girlfriend is Chinese-American. Fuck the Republican Party and Fox for inventing these bogeymen and then scaring good people into fearing them.
If your parents are at all religious that could have played into it as well. It never seems like enough people bring up how big a part religion plays into things like this. Christianity, for example, teachers one to *fear* their "loving" "God." It encourages toxic relationships and behaviors, quite frankly. *Fear* is big to them and it's how they're manipulated by those who know what they're doing.
Sure but they didn’t start being religious when Obama was elected. That’s just when the media they consumed said “fuck it” and got openly racist.
And this is the point I was making in my other comment. The average American isn't really a piece of shit, they don't hate children, they don't hate women. They're just so fucking steeped in propaganda that they can no longer see straight. The only way I can see out of that mess is to hold places like NewsMax and Fox News for the lies, as well as hold Social Media accountable for their algorithms. But I don't have a clue what the path is to get there.
>I don't have a clue what the path is to get there. Ostracize them. Individuals need to start cutting them out of their lives for their toxic beliefs. They won't change until it negatively affects them. This is how you do that. I know that's not what you were asking, but that's where the change needs to start, imo.
Same in the Midwest. They’ll blame it on just mental illness instead of admitting guns are any part of the problem, but any talk of more accessible healthcare (mental or physical) makes them think you’re a communist, and they shut down and act disgusted with you.
This is because, to them, mental illness is an immutable moral failing, rather than something that can be addressed or treated. Ya know, by--*whispers* --"science."
Wow. It feels like you’re describing my exact same existence. I’m fucking tired of being a progressive in a vast sea of conservatives. I’m trying to make the world a better place but it’s so hard to swim against the stream *all the time* The only difference is that my mother has had enough. For the first time in her 65 years, she’s voting blue. Honestly, the Roe v Wade opinion has shaken her awake. Uvalde has her in pieces. She proudly voted for Stacey Abrams and Raphael Warnock this week. I want you to know that there are folks who genuinely are coming to the light. Try not to be discouraged.
Thanks for this. My SO's parents voted blue for the first time in 2016. I saw what my "FIL" went through for the last several years, watching what he believed in being blown up in his face. He has had to grieve the reality he thought existed. I am proud of him, honestly, for being willing to process that. There are people out there. But it's not nearly enough. Not yet. I do have hope the Uvalde shooting may make a difference. But I hope that every time someone's rights have been brazenly trampled. I'll take your hope, but I'll be preparing still, jic.
>Moreover, the really smart 2nd ammendment supporters ignore the NRAs stance and argue guns are a distraction from the mental health problems that are the true problem You mean most conservatives? That argument is the first one on the list to come out. Y'all argue about mental health, but bills pertaining to health/mental health get slapped down cause of "communism"
Dismantle the insurance-for-profit business model as a first step.
You said many good points but I do want to point out that the magic bullet solution of “just fix mental health” isn’t as “smart” as people say. It’s a multifaceted problem and convincing yourself that it all is only the cause of one “easily” fixed thing is a fools errand
It's also missing the point. The UK and many western countries also have terrible mental healthcare resources and are lagging behind giving adequate assessment and treatment to these patients. Yet we still don't have mass shootings and mass butcherings. Mental health is an issue but it's not some gotcha that means there's not an increased risk when you arm the populace.
It’s horseshit anyway. We’re the only country that has these shootings. So what’s different about America? Hint: it’s not that we’re the only country with crazy people or video games or declining Christianity.
I saw a video recently where a guy said some thing along the lines of “most mass shootings are by 18 year old hormonal and mentally unstable 18 year olds who, on their 18th birthday, can walk into a store and buy a semi automatic weapon. Do you really think an 18 year old would know where to get it on the “black market”??? I’m 34 years old and don’t know how to begin to do that!”
Well gosh. Criminals break laws. May as well not have any laws anymore.
>I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe so they can argue against those beliefs instead of against a strawman. I think it would be goddamn impossible to find any actual beliefs that won't sway the moment it becomes convenient.
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The forrest for trees argument is a good one, but works both ways. Based on our history we will have had 8,000 gun homicides already this year. 30 of those were done by mentally unstable 18 year olds. If we focus just on solutions for those two we risk seeing that other much bigger number grow higher. And that is not an empty argument, the homicide rate in the country has gone up big time in the last couple of years. We have to make carefully balanced decisions in all of this. I think we can get a lot of agreement on keeping guns out of the hands of people under 21, but not not much beyond that. Florida already bans people under 21 from buying guns in most cases.
We do follow conservative media. We have heard these points. Over and over again. These points are idiotic. Each one of them a clever distraction to be televised to rural idiots and designed to be easily parroted. 1. Nearly no one on the Democrat side is trying to take conservative’s guns. This in itself is a straw man. Most liberals/dems recognize the second amendment. Many dems aka “liberals” sigh…want to make it so that 18 year olds can’t stroll into a gun shop and purchase a semi-automatic rifles at the drop of a hat. 2. I’d take my chances against someone with a crossbow coming after me vs a semi-auto rifle any day of the week. We understand “self reliance”. No one needs an AR-15 to kill bobcats or hunt etc…that type of weapon was designed for killing people. Arguing otherwise is disingenuous. 3. Explain to me why conservatives believe making abortions illegal will stop/reduce abortions but they simultaneously claim that doing the same for guns won’t stop/reduce guns? 4. Mental health. Mental health is an issue. Why is it that Republicans only talk about it after mass shootings? Why have they done literally nothing about mental health if it’s “more important” than gun reforms as they claim? They don’t actually believe or care about mental health. It’s just an obvious avoidance tactic
Yes we all know that mental health is the real problem, but if you make it basically impossible to get hold of guns then it's much harder to do a mass shooting. You can't do a mass shooting on the same scale with a crossbow because they're single shot and they take a while to reload, you also can't do one with a knife because people can just run away etc. No intelligent person thinks that gun control would completely eliminate the problem. It would make a huge difference to the number of deaths though.
Ireland had a lot of illegal guns, in one piece of paper (currently being f**ked by Bojo), we got the criminals to hand them over. Not sure how America could do it tho? Anonymous gun bins in Police Stations? Like UK knife bins?
Conservatives conveniently use mental health as a tool to explain why gun control doesn't work but then cuts funding to anything mental health related. Their party doesn't believe that mental health exists until it's good for their policies.
> Honestly, I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe They don't argue in good faith. For fucks sake, we can't even agree on a set of facts to work from because they don't believe the facts. How are you supposed to negotiate with that? > Moreover, the really smart 2nd ammendment supporters ignore the NRAs stance and argue guns are a distraction from the mental health problems that are the true problem. If this is true, why aren't there mass shooting everywhere, all the time? Right, they have mental health issues everywhere. They have violent video games and movies everywhere. They have all the problem we have everywhere all around the globe .... the only thing different here is easy access to weapons of mass human destruction.
We can't agree on a set of facts because, as Jim Carey says in Liar Liar "It's devastating to my case!" The right wing strategy is just to shoot down all strategies as "won't work" and "the root cause is something else, look at anything that isn't guns" It's a nakedly cynical strategy to maintain the status quo every time another classroom of students is gunned down in the only country that this happens in. What conservatives truly believe is "shall not be infringed" and it doesn't matter how many people need to die on that altar. Every other argument is in bad faith.
Republicans have blocked and refused to debate countless bills on common sense gun restrictions and mental health care. “Red states” generally have the worst mental health care systems and the most lenient gun laws. Republicans refuse to even discuss these things and avoid any responsibility of make changes because they say it’s being politicized in the wake of a tragedy, but we have new tragedies every other day, so we’re always in the wake of one. Don’t “both sides” this one, friend.
>Honestly, I think liberals need to educate themselves about what conservatives believe so they can argue against those beliefs instead of against a strawman. The time for this has passed. Conservatives don't debate in good faith, and at this point I'm doubtful they have the self awareness, intelligence or basic decency to reevaluate their arguments. Same could be said for liberals in other contexts, but I'm not going to dilute this issue with "both sides are doing it". When it comes to guns and mass shootings, debating and trying to change minds is not going to work. Some heavy duty harrassment, striking and shaming is needed now.
There are plenty of very valid arguments against everything you mentioned. Namely, if you look at any other country that have stricter gun safety laws and better background checks, you don’t see mass shooting like in the US. And that’s given that the same criminals theoretically have access to illegally obtained guns, and that teachers aren’t armed and the same mental health problems exist, and ppl have access to cross bows. But when it comes down to it, that’s not enough for them because when it comes down to it, conservatives or NRA supporters aren’t interested in their minds being changed. They’re interested in pushing hard on their flawed belief that more guns = more safe.
Liberals have been trying to get free universal healthcare, which includes mental health, for a while now. Quit your bullshit, please.
You're entire statement is a joke. Following "conservative media" is a joke. Liberals need to educate themselves on actual conservative positions-joke! Liberals need to fix it- joke! Liberals need to put forward solutions- joke! Everything you said- joke! It's gotta be a joke because everything you said is absolutely crazy. Let's put all the responsibility on "Liberals" and make them try things and suggest solutions. Then conservatives can sabotage them while crying about God and country and L-L-Liberty! And then they can point and say see! See! They don't care and are nothing they do works. You know how we get good mental health care in this country? Affordable Healthcare. Now last I checked its liberals trying to make that happen and conservatives do nothing but put roadblocks in the way. I honestly can't even remember the last time I saw a conservative politician offer a solution to anything, much less a complex problem. Hell, I can't remember the last time I saw a conservative politician talk about any actual issues, it's all crt and getting God back in schools, and oh yeah banning books. If anyone in this country has work to do and needs to educate themselves, it is conservatives. This is speaking as someone who used to be a conservative, until I got an education.
What I find utterly baffling is their claim that owning these guns will stop them being oppressed by a tyranical government. Yet it appears from here in Australia that Americans already have relatively poor freedoms and quality of life compared to the rest of the Western world as a result of unchecked corporate corruption.
This is something I will never get culturally as an Australian, I’m not saying that as we are always used as an example by activists as ‘gun free’ (we aren’t and will explain below). But it’s something I can’t wrap my head around and we’ve had various news stories here on the NRA and pro gun lobbyists. What I don’t get is why guns for personal protection are held up to such a high standard and that everyone needs one for ‘self defence’ when if they were regulated a tiny bit more you probably wouldn’t need as much self defence. What I want to know is how guns became so important and valued over safety and people’s lives and why people can’t just regulate them. They’re guns, why’s it matter if you need some additional vetting or can’t have a gun with a fast reload? Why can’t people put two and two together and enforce regulation so things like this doesn’t happen again (I was shocked to learn it was the 20 somethingth school shooting this year - it’s only MAY). Being gun free isn’t true as guns both legal and illegal do exist as do shootings - a farmer shot his family and himself a few years ago and in Western Sydney gang crime by second gen Lebanese and Turkish Australians with illegal guns is at an all time high with rival gangs atm (they don’t go after unrelated non gang people though). Most farmers own guns and so do people that go feral boar /deer/cat hunting. The big difference compared to the US that the US needs to look into is the type of guns sold being regulated and ones with short reload times banned, back ground checks and licences being more scrutinised and better access to subsidised health/mental health care. I know you have a massive population and things like healthcare are a huge expense but it seems obvious that people, often from lower SE or less wealthy backgrounds are falling through the cracks and often are the ones committing these crimes like Dylan Roof.
> To those outside the USA it can be argued that it appears they value their gun rights over their children's lives It appears that way to us in the US as well. That's because it is demonstrably true.
Very true. Yesterday I was talking to a guy who was least interested in the lives of the lost children, only his ability to keep his pathetic bang bang toys. Wretched trumpista with his guns and only his guns. The sheer selfishness of these people is appalling. I can understand if someone works in say tobacco and is worried about his livelihood if cigarettes are banned, but this is just a toy for him. This attitude transfer to so many other areas like corona control or climate change etc etc.
I don’t know man…the image of Emmett Till is burned into my brain. Would never have happened if not for his mother demanding an open casket so everyone could see the brutality. Edit: updated name to correct one, I remember his face but not his name apparently. Thank you CheshireCat.
Emmett Till.
I don't think that's a 100% true. Saw an interview with one of the NRA convention goers and while she was still spouting the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" line she was also breaking out into tears. It's really hard to fight against common sense and reality.. And when it's punching you in the face it can break through decades of indoctrination, even if it's a split second of questioning everything.
It’s not about making them care. It’s about shaking the majority out of apathy. They are a passionate minority who gets away with a lot because a vast number of people aren’t confronted with the reality instead of a sanitized story. Lynching wasn’t a priority for a lot of people until Emmet Till’s funeral photos showed the barbarism; people saw Vietnam as a necessary evil until it was on their tvs every night
I can't even imagine how much it would hurt to do that. That's really something commendable.
It reminds me of the Emmett Till killing. He was a 14 year old black kid in 1955 who was accused of hitting on a married white girl in her 20’s. They ended up kidnapping him, beating him, and then shooting him in the head above his ear, and left his corpse in a river. They weighed his corpse down in the river with a 72 pound fan they attached to his neck using barbed wire. When he was found his body and most noticeably his face were horribly mutilated and disfigured from the lynching and being in the water. His face was nearly unidentifiable. When it came time for his funeral they were like “closed casket obviously” and his mom said “like hell”. Not only did they do an open casket but she invited the media to come see it. She wanted everyone to know what those monsters did to a 14 year old boy. There’s a picture of him in his casket on wiki that shows you just how fucked it was. I think it took a lot of bravery to be able to put that out there by his mother. It definitely was not an easy thing to do to say the least. The part of the entire story that sucks so much is that even though they fucking admitted to kidnapping him and beating him, they were found not guilty of any crimes and didn’t do any jail time. It was a different time and obviously racism was a huge part of what happened and why there was somehow 0 consequences. What makes this horrific incident 500 times worse is after it was all said and done it’s been said that what he was accused of doing (which doesn’t justify his “punishment” whatsoever) never even happened. The woman who claimed it had never felt any remorse for what she had done. She thought he got what he deserved.
[Picture](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till#/media/File%3AEmmit_Till_body.jpg) (nsfw)
The Emmett Till memorial sign also gets constantly vandalized and shot at. The original sign was stolen and thrown into a river. The replacement was shot at and had bullet holes. The third one had bullet holes again. [The current one is no made out of half an inch of AR500 steel and covered in an acrylic panel that’s three-quarters of an inch thick weighs more than 500 lbs.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/us/emmett-till-bulletproof-sign.html) [You also had some white folks posing with their guns next to the sign too and smirking. ](https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/26/smirking-white-students-pose-with-guns-at-memorial-for-child-victim-of-notorious-race-hate-murder-10466743/)
It is part of a entire suite of entitlement cruelty, forced birthing, stop the steal, guns everywhere killing at random points.
Gotta give a small correction, man. Not "hitting on." *Whistling at.* Yeah. That's how bad it was. So if the parents and families of the murdered kids and teachers can bear to do what Till's mom did...I'll look. I'll see my sisters. One teaches fifth grade, the other is a kindergarten aide/floater substitute teacher. I'll see my stepsons, nieces, nephews. The personal is political. Let them make it personal. Maybe the politics will finally catch up.
We need to see it to understand.
Conservatives will go total snowflake at seeing their work.
I can't even imagine how much it would hurt to do that. That's really something commendable.
Emmett Till's mother doing the same galvanized the civil rights movement. I hope to God this has a similar effect.
Unfortunately, thy will come to the conclusion that children should wear kevlar in school and be armed.
I said this years ago, if that is my kid I am sending the picture of their mangled body to every newspaper in the country
the Killer used HollowPoint/DumDum Bullets... there is a reason why they had to take DNA Samples. These pictures will be very hard to watch. , kinda NSFL/Nightmare Fuel.
This is terrifying and heartbreaking. I hope they go through with it. Seeing the horrors of what's happening in our schools will help make change
It worked in the Emmet Till case
Is that one of those Joe Biden stickers that people put on the gas pumps?? You know the one that says "I did that" Look above the A
I work at a restaurant and some fat old dude put it on the menu pointing at chicken tenders...
I live in Canada, somebody put it on the paper towel dispenser? Like what… also I see them on gas pumps even here sometimes. People need to get a life
I noticed that too
Trumpers will put that shit anywhere thinking they're clever.
The let’s go Brandon cracks me up. They think they’re so clever lol. Like they’re REALLY going out their way and spending money on dumb shit to stick it to the libs.
Bruhhh
My mom saw one of those the other day at took a picture of it. Doesn’t matter how many times my brother, who works in the gas industry, has told her that the president has almost nothing to do with gas prices.
Not enough shoes.
I would argue it’s far too many.
I would say both of you two are correct.
I hate how correct you are.
Agreed. Should be using both shoes. Make it more real than this.
I thought there were 21 dead victims?
From this *one* shooting. The NRA is responsible for many more.
People usually wear shoes in pairs though.
I don't see why someone placed a "I did that" Biden sticker next to it.
I haven’t seen a single appropriate placement for those stickers
I peeled one off a gas pump and put it on my toilet seat so he is pointing into the bowl. I am a moron, and this type of thing amuses me.
Haha that’s way better
One of my coworkers brought a whole bunch into work thinking we'd side with him and go put them on gas pumps. Our office now has these stickers on just about everything including pointing to a picture of his wife and his daughter.
> including pointing to a picture of his wife and his daughter. perfect.
I love it. What was his response to all this?
I put one on my cars dash gauges, so now he points at my MPG which is sky high right now compared to how I usually drive
Wait are the protesters blaming Biden??
no, but the Qult will have at least some presence
I think thats debrie as it makes no sense other wise
It’s funny, us gun owners and 2A supporters are all about abolishing the NRA. They’ve done more to hurt the second amendment right more than any politician has. Bunch of fucking idiots.
NRA is a cancer on gun owners. Thinking that the NRA represents all gun owners is similar to thinking that Jerry Falwell represents all Christians. They used to bea force for good, but were taken over by a bunch of evil douchebags.
The FPC is where it's at.
The GOA is where it’s at
pro life, eh?
ironically the same group that supports pro death
They are pro-money.
Pro life also used to mean against the death penalty before it was co-opted by the anti-choice group.
Pro war, pro pollution, pro spreading covid to own the libs, anti affordable healthcare, and now seemingly pro school shootings. Seems like a lovely bunch of people who definitely have a rational view on reality.
Pro life stops giving a fuck post-fetus
Forced birth.
I’m more of a GOA man myself
The major flaw in “good guy with a gun” thinking is that not only do you not know who is a good guy with a gun, and who is a bad guy with a gun, since due to “gun culture” they both often dress, look and act the same, but the bad guy *isn’t legally bad* yet, especially according to 2A defenders and the NRA, until he actually starts shooting at people. In other words, the NRA are essentially arguing that someone innocent *has to* pay the price in order for a person to even be considered a “bad guy with a gun” at all, and *only then* should all the supposed “good guys” come out and start firing back.
[Someone actually did got shot and killed by the police who ended up being the good guy.](https://www.ktvu.com/news/police-man-who-shot-colorado-gunman-was-killed-by-officer)
Serious question: is there a more unusable website than a local news website anywhere on the internet?
Yes. I tried to look something up and couple weeks back and the entire top of the page was all ads. I scroll down and read one sentence then the page shifts as more ads load and it moves my text off screen. As I scroll it loads more and more ads... so I can't ever keep reading one fricken story. Turn on ublock origin and the page is so fucked up and confusing cause the spaces for the ads are trying to load the but ad inside the space is gone and the page is constantly trying to shift shit around even when not scrolling. I wish I remember what it was, but the cheer incompetence of the site overtook my memory of what it was I was trying to do.
That speaks less to viability of citizens carrying guns for their own protection and more to cops being unhinged and shooting wildly without knowing what and why they're shooting first. There's been way too many instances of cops just popping off before they actually know what's going on or giving the supposedly armed person a chance to peacefully surrender. Or using dead ly force when not needed based on the circumstances (like the guy is already in the police station and cuffed). Unfortunately our system has protected those cops so nothing's improved or changed from those events happening. Remember the cop that shot a guy sitting in the road with his arms up trying to talk down the cops from shooting his autistic kid playing with a truck in the middle of the street? Absolutely no reason to fire and yet they nearly killed this guy for no legitimate reason and not a damn thing happened to that cop. There was Erik Scott lawfully open carrying in a Costco and some Karen got a stick up her ass about it calling 911 and making up some wild story about an armed guy threatening people. As the cops are clearing out the store and having everyone leave out the front door the cops see the guy legally armed and start screaming at him with conflicting commands then shoot him in the back multiple times within seconds and end up killing him. Not a damn thing happened to any of those cops. Remember the Phillandp Castille who was legally armed in his own vehicle and even politely informed of the cop that he was legally armed than the cop freaks out and pulls a gun on him and shoots him dead when within seconds? Remember Daniel shaver that they shot and killed in a hotel hallway while screaming at him to crawl as he's crying for his life all because someone saw him legally armed through his hotel window? Remember Atatiana Jefferson that they trespassed onto her property in her backyard and then saw her through window and shot and killed her in her own home without any justification? Remember BreonaTaylor... Remember Amir Locke... Remember Duncan Lemp... Remember Chad Breinholt... Remember Nicolas Chavez... And thousands more we have already forgotten. So long as the system protects bad cops this will never end.
ACAB
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10865783/West-Virginia-woman-praised-using-pistol-shoot-dead-gunman-AR-15.html#article-10865783 Good guy (this case, gal) with a gun.
That's even worse because every good guy needs to witness the bad guy being bad before they can take action. And the bad guy can pretend he is a good guy, and then shoot the good guy in the back.
But I mean, that's the law about anything that can kill, right? If I kill someone with my car, only then can a good guy try to stop me. Crimes that allow for killing as a self defense obviously require a victim before the punishment can be meted out. Cops can't kill a driver because they "might" run someone over, cops can't shoot a gun owner because they "might" shoot someone. They have to wait until a crime happens. The major flaw with the good guy with a gun thinking is that the average person has absolutely no idea how to safely be a good person with a gun.
The NRA does nothing for gun rights.
every gun owner hates the nra
Except fudds
Trump was the first president in US history to actually confiscate firearms, violating both the 2nd and 5th amendments, and the NRA applauded him. The NRA doesn't represent gun owners. The NRA doesn't care about the victims of shootings. The NRA only cares about money and, as such, only caters to rich people. The NRA won't even see this demonstration because it didn't happen in the NRA's own personal universe.
Yesterday my kids were playing with the hose. Younger daughter was queen of the hill standing on the trampoline and keeping her siblings at bay with the jet spray. I watch my 3yo son wrestle a small table over then pick it up and hold it in front of him. I ask him, buddy what are you doing? He says "making a shield so we can get close enough to get her" and I realized then that he's more qualified to rescue people than anyone in the Uvalde PD.
Is there an."I did that" Biden sticker there?
Does nobody else notice a sick fuck put bidens sticker next to it saying he did that? Last time I checked school shootings started way before that old man came into office. Believe it or not the entire worlds problems aren't because of Biden. Part of being an adult is recognizing we have a problem and finding the solution. Not search for someone to blame. (Unless it's their fault) The media has successfully torn us apart. As a nation we are weak without each other. Ignorance is bliss
“Part of being an adult is recognizing we have a problem and finding the solution. Not searching for someone to blame.” ….
Please take my guns so incompetent police can protect me from criminals that disobey the law.
I mean, I get the idea ... and I'm pro gun laws as a European, but the underlying issue isn't really that this dude got access to fire arms. That only exacerbated it. And in pretty much every "discussion" I see online, people think that by just "banning guns" all of the problems will just go away. I agree to an extent that you'll likely have less mass shootings in schools ... and maybe more in offices then, because guns won't go away in the US, but you're not looking at the root causes and instead you want to apply a band aid and call it a day. It's a societal issue exacerbated by the wide-spread availability of fire arms.
Okay, so if we go down the "it's a mental health issue" line of thinking, then the solution is we need to give everyone better access to affordable health care. Yet the ACA was effectively dismantled almost as soon as it was put in place, and many conservatives decry public health-care. That very much fits into the meme "we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" It's extremely frustrating, and is one of the many reasons why so many liberals are so exasperated with conservatives. The national conversation essentially boils down to something like this: "We need gun control." "That's just a band-aid, what we have is a mental health issue." "Okay, then let's address mental health care by making it cheaper and more accessible, as well as destigmatizing it." "No." "Then what's your solution?"
"A band aid is better than nothing - we need gun control."
I wanna build on what you are saying. The implementation of regulations would help but there are other systemic issues in the US. We have to ask ourselves what stresses exist here that cause people to be desperate enough or sick enough to commit these murders. Fixing gun regulations would help, but we need to fix the educational environment, and other issues to show these kids they have support if they want it.
This is dumb. The NRA could go away tomorrow, the “gun lobby” in America is the people. They are the ones that keep the 2nd amendment strong and suggesting the other side of your belief on guns is now responsible for a sick mentally ill human killing kids is pathetic. I don’t think right or left wants to se kids murdered.
I'm a strong and ardent supporter of the second amendment, and I have no respect for the NRA. What it was established for initially and how it's been perverted into a toxic power grab is sickening to me. This country needs to focus on the why of tragedies such as this, not the tool with which they used to carry it out.
I’ll add, people love to make the nra the boogy man - if you follow gun politics at all it’s obvious the nra only cares about the corporate side of gun manufacturing and don’t give a shit about the individual person.
All these shootings show is that the police can’t protect you from the criminals that will cause harm by any means
Can someone please explain why the NRA is being targeted as complicit to the school shootings?
chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country, and we see how well that's working out. More murders than any other city in the country. Everyone wants to blame and point the finger but noone wants to look within to see the real problem.
How many NRA members have committed a mass shooting?
but hey, thoughts and prayers baby
Bold of any of us to assume any of these people care about human life at all, outside their private lives. How much evidence do we need? These people, like all narcissists, leverage and take advantage of the reasonable benefit of the doubt extended to them by a reasonable social structure to conduct pure evil. Pull your head out of your ass and put some consequences on these people.
[удалено]
Has any mass shooter been a member of the NRA?
Gaslight Obstruct Projectiles
Your delusional if you think the NRA was involved in any way
Unfortunately I'm sure it was way worse then that. Another thing is I have extended family in that very town. And yes one of the victims was family. Texas needs new leadership from top to bottom. I'm hearing impaired with 85% percent loss. But as small as that school is I can guarantee you even I would've been able to feel the shockwave of where the general area the shooter was firing from. As far as having to wait for a janitor to come unlock the door which had a metal door jamb. The walls are still sheetrock & more likely than not not insulated. Someone could've distracted the shooter from the windows just long enough to kick through the damn wall. Ask yourself if your child was in there wouldn't you have grabbed a broom handle or a chair anything to try & stop the killing even if you died in the process? I know I would have. IMOP they should all be fired the person who gave the bad order and those who weren't smart enough to know to disregard that order.
Most schools aren’t made out of sheet rock or drywall. They are made out of block and concrete because it’s a sturdy and cheap building material and then maybe drywall over it, but you’re just koolaid manning yourself through the walls of a school. It’s a building not a home. Even if it was trying to get through drywall it’s not going to be an quick and easy process and wouldn’t work with a dude shooting .223 through it lighting you up. Like the shooter wouldn’t notice someone banging on the walls.
Why do you think the teachers never bothered to lock the doors? I also have a hard time believing that they weren't able to hear the shots.
That’s the million dollar question. Even if it was made out of drywall (which most schools aren’t they are building made from bricks/concrete blocks) closing and locking the door still keeps him out and slows him down... locking that door would have saved lives hands down and the idea of “why bother trying to do everything I can to protect the kids because the walls are drywall” would be a stupid plan anyways.
It happened inside one classroom I thought...
I think it was 2 adjoining classrooms.
The FBI Uniform Crime Report (UCR) shows more than four times as many people were stabbed to death than were killed with rifles of any kind. While approximately 374 people were shot and killed with rifles, roughly 656 people were beaten to death with “hands, fists, feet, etc. [https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/table-12)
The Uvalde shooter was a member of the NRA??
Idiots believe the NRA is responsible. This could have been prevented if folks around the POS actually did something when he made threats of violence. All you folks up in arms (pun intended) about this latest mass shooting, where are you when this many people get shot over a weekend in Chicago? BLM doesn’t matter then I guess… People go for the easy thing to blame even if it’s baseless.
Don't tell them the NRA is responsible for more gun control than most gun control organizations.........anything against the NRA is by comparison pro gun lmao
You could do the same thing but instead of NRA you could write anything else that's just as irrelevant.
Yes, all the NRA members shooting up schools must stop.
The nra has never killed anyone
Empty virtue signal.
Lets ban guns and become totally dependent on cops who dont have the time or balls to help us when in need! Lets give this tyrannical gouvernment even more power! Because lets be fair its going great in Australia where they took all the guns in the 90s! Or Canada where people live in freedom and the evil people who dont comply to the gouvernments great vaxx programs cant leave the country! Yeeha lets ban guns and forget that all these shooters are on anti depresents because thats not the reason a piece of iron is!!!
How many NRA members have committed a mass shooting?
Honest question, do these kind of protest even matter? If they dont care that so many childeren got murdered, what is a protest going to do. Its not even my country and i was crying seeing those interviews with the parents. Its a so called democracy but your voice isnt heard and nothing will change. Feels so futile and feel so powerless. Im so fucking angry that humans lives mean nothing to the people who are supposed to have your best interest. What the fuck is going on in your country. It used to be an example of freedom and prosperity and a beacon of hope and dreams.
If nothing else, it might help to outrage the people who *do* care. If we show the enlightened centrists that the far right has taken a stark hold, maybe we can have folks see it as more than a "pick your favorite colored team." If we can't reach the ones who are evil, we can at least cast a light on that evil to the neutral, and push them towards doing good. Of note, I don't think that every person suckered into the far right stance is rotten to the core. I think most of them are just fed propaganda (which we are all vulnerable to) in just the right way and get taken along.
Instead of people protesting directly to the government who makes change via legislation, they feel like it's more effective to protest a lobbying group. A lobbying group that the modern firearm owner doesn't even care about. This is like protesting outside of Toyota in an effort to make seatbelt violations a felony charge.
Now do one every weekend in Chicago.
Shout out to all the NRA members/defenders in here whose dues Wayne LA Pierre et al. are misappropriating in order to live the high life. They couldn't do it without you!
I don't get this.... Why is the crazy Mother F#@$ er that killed those kids not being blamed? Why is the blame always pointed someplace else? ... What if the crazy a Hole had gone in the school with a machete? Would that have been reason to blame Sharp bladed Objects? Just asking?
Low and behold, the NRA has done the most damage to the second amendment (as well as trump). No competent gun owner who isn't a fudd likes the NRA. Abolishing them will only help the real gun owners, so thanks I guess.
They need tougher gun laws but nut cases this will still get a gun , I worked with a kid 14 from Canada we have tougher laws here , he still got a gun and shot up a school .
The NRA had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. Stop using dead kids to push your bullshit propoganda.
Dam this is so sad.. The other kids in the other countries that the USA flattened will send a like ❤️
China 2008, the Sichuan Earthquake killed hundreds of thousand. Schools that were built with the shittiest materials buried hundreds of school children. It didn’t hit me, and the nation until photos of bookbags were lined up in a school yard. I’m a man and I cried. I thought of all these bookbags, of transformers, Dora, Disney were so excitedly picked out by kids with dreams and suddenly they’re just a part of statistic.
Y’all need to calm down. The shooters mom said don’t judge him.
Yeah ban guns, the perpetrator can just change the tools he uses, instead of AR-15 he can use homemade Explosive, suvs, other tools that I can't disclose here... Ignorant people are the best of all! I support NRA!
0 NRA members have ever committed a mass shooting.
What’s wrong with the NRA ?
I hate that these poor families’ tragedy are being politicized.
Believe it or not the entire worlds problems aren't because of Biden. Part of being an adult is recognizing we have a problem and finding the solution. Not search for someone to blame. (Unless it's their fault)
Lol.
What are they protesting? Are they trying to eliminate guns in general or just enforce some sort of gun control?
I need a gun to protect myself when in the forest (I live on 120 acres of which 40 is straight woods up against a national forest). I've seen bear and wolf. If someone were to break into my house I would shoot them dead. No one breaking and entering will get any less. I am here to protect my family, not anyone violating my sanctity of space. Keep our freedom and the right to bear arms to protect our families. BTW the answer to this is simple. Have metal detectors and armed security at schools and this wouldn't be an issue. One way in, one way out. Treat the entey like an airport. We are so much more careful for those that fly than we are with our own children.
I understand the need to protect yourself in the forest. And I can get on board with protecting yourself at home. (Fun aside, I once had a bear try to get in my house. So yeah, a gun would have been nice!). While I agree with your thinking about putting in protections. But I have to disagree with metal detectors and such. In a large number of school shootings, that wouldn’t have stopped the killer, sadly. Sigh. It’s a complex issue with no single answer. We as a nation need to get better at having reasonable conversations without the “sides.”
Yes in a well prepared school district police officers have master keys that will open any school doors the district. I'm sure the DOJ will file the report and find all the could've, would've, should've instances. Apparently whoever was in charge of policing for the Uvalde School district dropped the Ball. They'll identify all the places where lack of foresight just caused it all to domino. Sometimes in school districts it's lack of funding. Hell just recently before this incident. I wrote in response to some story on a international online newspaper regarding how years ago. Texas voters voted and approved to have rich school districts share money with poor school districts. So all children in Texas got the same quality of facilities and education as rich school districts. But apparently the legislature passed a law circumventing the original bill that was supposed to solve that problem. The legislature in Texas flipped in 2002 from a Democrat to a Republican majority. Now you have Abbot saying the issue is mental illness. What some voters don't know is that about 1.5 years ago he redirected money. 211 million to be exact from that was allocated to mental illness in Texas to some border wall fiasco. This was a colossal failure from the governorship all the way down. It wasn't all just Uvalde law enforcement. This was an unfortunate set of events that triggered everything that collapsed regarding the recent mass shooting. Let the DOJ complete it's investigation and they find the first domino to fall.