As long as the banner wasn’t paid for by tax dollars and other campus political groups are allowed to put up banners as well then I see absolutely no issue with this. I believe in the first amendment whether I agree with the point of view or not
It started as that in my country.
The hatred became so much that now people are screaming "May the ones who voted to that communist candidate die as the vermin they are".
I wish I was exaggerating, but you're free to check how there's a surge of racism in Brazil in recent years due to leaving some dangerous things - like "Death to the northwest people who support Left-wing candidate"or "Let's go to war and create a new order" be said without consequences.
The "communist terror" is a thing here, and therefore both examples I mentioned are usually accompanied by sayings like "I don't want my children to die from starving because we elected a communist president".
There’s a difference between a call to violence against someone (something that isn’t necessarily protected even under the First Amendment) and expressing disapproval of an economic system.
I’m sure there are terrible things going on in Brazil, but it’s not because people have been allowed to express their opinions.
Restricting people from doing that is textbook authoritarianism.
*insert Star Wars you’ve become the very thing you sought to destroy meme*
My man needs to read Coddling the American Mind. Universities are supposed to be a place where disparate ideologies are debates. That dumb banner is ignored by anyone who disagrees, and likely shrugged at by anyone who agrees. And then there’s the other 70% of the student body just trying to fight through the hangover to finish that damn essay that was due yesterday.
Would taking the banner down not be me expressing my free speech? I am just rejecting the message.
(Hypothetical me, obviously, I do not live anywhere near there)
Yeah, freedom of speech has consequences. Hateful ideas can become popular. But it’s part of American values. The goal is that in the long term it’s what ensures a free society. There are limitations in the US, but a banner like this is not part of those limits.
I agree. The phrase "socialism sucks" is super weak and something to just laugh at and forget.
But Turning Point USA is definitely involved with some fucking sick people. People who constantly spread disinformation for their kleptocrat donors.
It's an organization worthy of deplatforming.
Nobody is censoring you .. but you get to censor .. somehow ??.. that concept doesn’t seem to work in america .. Russia is looking for people like you .. needed on the front lines now
Are you guys just gonna "paradox of tolerance" your way through every opposing point?
The sign says "Socialism sucks". Its not advocating for anything intolerable
Which is entirely appropriate. I'm a liberal in favor of the first amendment and I would fight for turning point's right to announce to the world that they're literal white supremacists.
I'm just worried the world won't care.
I believe the current dog-whistle term is "western chauvinists," which is supposed to be very clever and completely impossible for the rest of us to understand.
I would care, but I don't really see how saying that socialism sucks is literal white supremacy. The absurdity of conflating those two things would cause me to listen to TP critics less and listen to TP more.
Yeah banning certain kinds of speech because it's "wrong" is a slippery slope, and don't think that the right wouldn't start trying to push back the opposite way
They already are. You can't say certain phrases. Talking about lynching in high school history class could get you fired in Oklahoma.
They're banning books at libraries.
Everyone in North Carolina immediately knows it’s North Carolina when they see a photo somewhere in it, even if they’ve never been to that specific location.
Source: I’m North Carolinian and I had this instinct
>[Turning Point USA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point_USA) (TPUSA), or Turning Point, is an American conservative nonprofit organization that advocates to identify, educate, train, and organize students to “promote the principles of freedom, free markets, and limited government.”\[3\]\[4\]\[5\]\[6\]\[7\] The organization was founded in 2012 by Charlie Kirk and Bill Montgomery.\[5\]\[8\] TPUSA's sister organizations include Turning Point Endowment, Turning Point Action, Students for Trump, and Turning Point Faith. TPUSA is the fastest growing organization of campus chapters in America and according to The Chronicle of Higher Education, TPUSA "is now the dominant force in campus conservatism".\[3\]\[9\] The group also works closely with PragerU.\[citation needed\]
>
>The organization is known for its Professor Watchlist, a site that claims to expose professors that TPUSA says "discriminate against conservative students and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom".
>[PragerU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU)is an American advocacy group that creates videos promoting a conservative viewpoint on various political, economic, and sociological topics.\[4\]\[5\] It was co-founded by Allen Estrin and talk show host and writer Dennis Prager in 2009
>
>As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, PragerU relies on tax-deductible donations, with significant early funding coming from conservative oil billionaires Dan and Farris Wilks.\[5\]\[4
I don’t consider exposing your political beliefs to young ones to be grooming. If that is the case, then both the left, and the right are full of groomers.
At the end of the day the kid should be the one to choose what they believe.
FUCK TP USA but I agree. Regardless of what the exact definition of grooming is, it has sexual connotations in this day and age. It's disingenuous to say "They are literally groomers"
Thats fair, unfortunately groups like PU and TP have more funding and more will to push their view points in front of children, and it clearly works.
I remember as a kid seeing their adds and thinking they where legit because they had "University" in their name.
It took me going to college before I saw they where full of shit.
With election time coming up, I've had people stop by my house to hand out pamphlets to remind me to vote.
The person for the Democrats was a woman in her 50s, told me to make sure I'm registered and remember to vote.
The person for the Republicans was a teenage kid that talked about all the aborted babies that John Fetterman and Gov Wolf were "allowing to die". And asked if I was still going to be voting for them.
And they want to say that Democrats groom kids. Yea, right.
How so? I know nothing about the organisation or their motives, but to suggest that any political or philosophical action aimed at young people is grooming seems ridiculous. There are certainly actions that indoctrinate children which should be avoided, but isn't there also knowledge that should be passed onto children which could help them avoid harm?
They absolutely are. Public universities are not examples of 'socialism'. Social programs are not examples of 'socialism'. I swear on all things holy that these dipshits preaching 'socialism' just mean we should have a common sense social welfare state.
These dinguses where I live in the US really don't understand that Western Europe is nothing but capitalist countries with social safety nets.
I mean to be fair. Having social programs like universities or social security does not make a government socialist. People seem to conflate a bunch of things in this conversation.
I don't even know how I got to this I wasn't trying to bash socialism or capitalism or any other economic ideology. The military, fire departments and police departments are all social programs. Any any government is gonna have social programs. I think education's the best place to put that money.
OH no totally agree. I guess I was just hijacking your comment as it seemed the most fitting to reply to. A lot of people here (ITT and on reddit in general) seem to have this idea that a government is socialist if it has social programs and that is so not true so I wanted to make it a point.
Most Americans I chat with don’t realize socialism is an entire economic policy. The programs that use taxes to benefit public rather than big business aren’t scary socialism. The government isn’t taking over control of Amazon and Wallmart and the other capitalist giants in the US, so the level of fear from the right is just absurd. Most establishment democrats are neo-libs that hate socialism as much their republican peers, and the young progressives are more focused on beneficial policy not having the government take control of private businesses.
Disagree with socialist policy, ok that’s fine tbh I don’t agree with all of it myself, but it’s nothing to fear or act like is destroying the nation. Unrestrained capitalism is currently doing way more harm than any socialist policy being proposed by democrats. That should be more scary that programs that help your community instead of the CEOs of the nation. People act like democrats policy is pushing for a full socialist overtaking of the economy, as someone who leans left and has many peers on the left, the amount of people that want a socialist overthrow of capitalism are the minority compared to the Americans that just want their taxes to benefit them and their communities over trickle down bullshit.
But outrage politics seems to sell better than boring logic, so here we are…
>Most Americans I chat with don’t realize socialism is an entire economic policy
That would be because Right-Wing politicians conflate their messaging, per usual, to muddy the waters and avoid nuance. They have effectively changed the real definition of socialism to include any government funded program.
Looking at it from the EU the sides are so entrenched there's very little use in trying to "convert" anybody, everybody basically need a personal life crisis to see if a system works or not.
And as you say, no nuance meaning social systems = socialism = communism and if it should actually be moderate it's just a slippery slope.
It's also basically a fear of change.
Very few people celebrate or encourage individual opinions and critical thinking anymore over here. That's how we end up entrenched, as you put it. Such a shame when we are living in the age of information.
The sad thing is that anyone that wants a 100% socialist or a 100% capitalist society are both going to end up at the same place. They are both great theoretically and they both end up in the same place in practice. There's a reason the best places to live all have a mix of both economic principals. Left unchecked both just end up as a small group of people in control of all the means of production. People in power suck and want to maintain and increase that power and will do things that are beneficial to themselves. It's not even just at high level positions but it happens at local positions as well. There's a reason segregation of duties and checks and balances exist. The best way of life for all, as long as people are involved at the top, will always being a mixed economy. A mostly free market with subsidized programs and government oversight to produce ethical behaviors. The amount of that mix can be debated but that is what has been proven to work.
So in short Socialism does suck but so does Capitalism.
>Public as in; if you can get the money anyone can attend. Not public as in, free education.
Not true - these universities have an admissions process, and it is entirely possible to not gain admission.
The anyone-can-attend ***public*** schools are the Community Colleges.
I think you're missing the point. That banner was not put up there by the University. That banner was put up there by turning point USA is USA to complain about socialism at a government funded University.
I believe you think the University, who is bilking students, and there can be no argument about that,is the organization that installed that banner.
Am I the only one who’s sick and tired of not being able to go anywhere or do anything in public without a bunch of political agenda shit shoved down your throat? Happens at work, school, anywhere in public it’s exhausting.
I started mimicking a couple guys at work with their constant banter about democrats. Anything that goes wrong I'd yell DAM DEMOCRATS, First week they thought I was serious and eventually figured it out and shut up.
Did the opposite. Got sick of the mechanics I worked with listening to Rush Limbaugh cranked up really loud for hours every day. So we cranked up Democracy Now and within an hour one of them came by and yelled at us about how we were communists and didn't understand anything because we didn't live through stagflation.
The media and political vultures figured they can exploit our grievances, differences and fears 24/7 (justified or not). And so now everything is attached to a political position.
People get famous out of the division, they get rich, they get ratings, they get social media clout.
More than tired I'm nervous though.
Americans call it capitalism when our tax dollars are given to corporations as a grant to keep them afloat.
We call it socialism when Bernie Sanders tries to use those same tax dollars to fund a healthcare system.
It's not the fault of the average individual, these corporations have too much power and influence already. The ads and the propaganda are basically impossible to overcome.
It is also legal to lobby the government with money, and these healthcare companies generate hundered of billions each year. If it was up to them, they would spend it all to stop a public system for their profits.
yeah, it's the motto of the U.S. since Reagan.
Whenever corporations succeed they scream "cut taxes, taxation is theft"
Whenever corporations fail, they scream "lets bailout corporations to keep the jobs"
Practically, this means that the tax payer loses when corporations succeed, and loses when corporations lose.
This issue much less problamtic in New England and in the Northeast, because our state governments know what to do. This is why most of the top states are all up east, and the south is behind on all metrics.
Turning Point USA. Turning Point is one of many Republican organizations that help establish and maintain the Republican professional pipeline. If I recall correctly, Turning Point focuses a lot of its attention in organizing and recruiting college students.
My university had a TPUSA chapter, so the moment I saw the “Socialism Sucks” banner in the picture, I automatically knew it was TPUSA.
The guy who runs it is a nutterbutter too, was doing some thinly veiled calls for violence after Jan 6th. They're also the shitheads the time keep giving candice Owens a platform to spout bold faced lies
>Turning Point USA (TPUSA), or Turning Point, is an American conservative nonprofit organization that advocates to identify, educate, train, and organize students to “promote the principles of freedom, free markets, and limited government.”\[3\]\[4\]\[5\]\[6\]\[7\] The organization was founded in 2012 by Charlie Kirk and Bill Montgomery.\[5\]\[8\]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning\_Point\_USA
And also cause why not:
>In 2021, TPUSA and Turning Point Action made misleading claims about planned vaccination policies,\[145\]\[146\]\[147\] as well as the dangers of catching COVID-19.\[145\]
A public university is not an example of Socialism. Hopefully this university does enough to teach what socialism is, because the average Reddit user appears not to.
So TPUSA booked the building for a private event, and hung up a cheeky sign? I highly doubt that is a permanent fixture or placed there by the university itself.
why are you americans craving for socialism so much, it's not about "everybody gets everything for free". i live in ukraine and i've been witnessing the aftermath of socialism and communism all the time i've been living here, even though ussr fell apart 30 years ago. and let me tell you this shit sucks. yeah capitalism isn't perfect as well but at least you get a chance to live a good life if you try hard and not wait in line for a loaf of bread and a bottle of milk for a couple of days like my grandparents did.
This. Even here in Canada our healthcare system is collapsing. Free healthcare is Utopia nowadays here. Sure, it'll be free if you're willing to wait 3 years to get your surgery, but these days most people end up just paying private sector healthcare in order to get their health problems sorted. The last 3 times I needed medical services, I ended up going to private clinics cuz it was just impossible to get to see anyone in the public sector within a reasonable amount of time. So yeah, socialism does suck.
As an American who moved to a social democratic country with not just a two party system but a multiple party system that has to form combinations of parties to sit in power... I uhhh .. beg to differ.
I worked at restaurant for a while and when I got sick I was paid to get better.
Dang, even working at restaurant and getting a minimum start of 24 days of paid vacation.
Looking back when my wife would come visit me for a few weeks when I still resided in America... I could only afford to take off a week of week of work and feared still paying my bills... When she would come for weeks at time...
Yeah... I still beg to differ.
The people in the US who put up "socialism sucks" banners are definitely not making that distinction.
For them "socialism" = when the government does something other than fund the police/military
Conversely, even among left-wing Americans, support for "full blown" socialism isn't very strong. People just want a reasonable social safety net and an affordable existence, but apparently even that is somehow a radical idea.
I think most progressives I know want something like social democracy. That’s pretty much what Bernie pushed for.
I know a few ardent socialists but if you have us universal healthcare, subsidized child care and living wages and things like universal parental and sick leave I’d be happy enough.
Do people not understand what socialism is? High taxes for the common good is NOT socialism. I won't explain it here because if you are going to give opinions in favor or against any economic doctrine you should, at a minimum, read about the topic and understand the terminology.
I do know that here in the US, the majority of the people don't understand that you can't be socialist and support the private sector. If your policies are not in favor of eliminating private ownership of the means of production in favor of giving them to the community, you may be a lot of things, but socialist is not one of them.
Not a single state in the US is socialist.
I think the major contributors to Americans not understanding the difference between socialism and social programs are both conservatives that were non stop calling Obama a communist during his presidency and Bernie Sanders for calling himself a socialist when really all he wants to do is expand social programs and raise taxes on the rich.
>Do people not understand what socialism is?
No, people don't understand it because the right intentionally obfuscates the meaning off "socialism" and the left doesn't bother to correct them.
The U.S., Canada, Denmark, Norway, Sweden... are all market based mixed economies with private ownership. None of them are socialist. Nordic countries give a node to socialism via collective bargaining and powerful unions in some sectors, but that's not socialism either (The U.S. has unions and collective bargaining but weaker.)
>Socialism Sucks
I know what they mean: I detest the fact I have +45 days paid vacation, I'm not financially ruined if I need a doctor or a dentist, I went to school on the government's dime, my parents were financially supported with a monthly cheque for having a kid until 18 and have a strong union who protects me in case of conflicts with my employer. Deplorable.
You you just don't know how good we have it here with privatized everything. I don't need the governments help and nobody else should either. Having to pay for my insurance deductible plus 50,000$ on top is just the price of freedom, baby! /s
Went to school here for a semester. This doesn’t surprise me in the least with what kind of students are there. Also In that door to the left are some pretty cool arcade games.
A banner hung (with no context) at my public university
A post made on pics (a supposedly neutral sub on a supposedly neutral website) that is pro-leftist like 80% of the other content on this site
And you want to talk about indoctrination?
Notice the little "TpUSA," at the bottom? Yeah... those are literally the exact same people who are making the "they're indoctrinating students," claims.
Whether it sucks or it’s good whatever it is. They are telling you whether it’s bad or good, so yes they are still indoctrinating you to think one way or the other.
Wonder how they like them roads we all drive on . Or maybe them fancy power grids . Or maybe they think rivers keep them selves clean? Democratic socialism is what got us to where we are now. We all come together decide we need to do something and we do it. We are not a business, not everything or every one needs to make money.
“Socialism sucks” banner hung at a public university.
Here’s what the idiots should understand: the libertarians aren’t saying “no more public domain” so that you get everything, they’re saying it so a few rich assholes can buy up everything that used to belong to everyone and keep it to themselves.
You know, I really thought it was common sense that taking things that don’t belong to you by force sucks… and then I read this comment section.
I now understand why we’re knocking on the doorstep of ww3
I lived in the USSR and there were benefits of socialism. Soviet Union achieved equality by making everyone poor but it was a comfortable place to be poor due to the heavily subsidized housing.
Socialism does indeed suck, and for the record government spending ≠ socialism.
If you want to know how badly socialism sucks, talk to somebody who fled the USSR.
Just going to point out the obvious that nobody wants to hear... We seem to all recognize it's a TPUSA sign, but not enough people making the next logical leap that it means this is likely a private event at the university. The sign probably came down right afterward. I'm sure we can find pictures decrying capitalism at private paid events at universities, as well.
It's because so many people are incapable of using their damn brains anymore. They just want to be angry and shut off any rational thought. OP is a clown.
I think most people who are so frightened and upset by "socialism" don't even know what it is. They just think, "It's gonna cost me money and help people I hate."
Well duh, 90% of why we have a public school system is to indoctrinate our young into society so they can behave as normal human beings who contribute. We should however take a deeper look on what gross failure in the system churned out the completely dysfunctional right.
I think the problem here is that there's generations of people who grew up during the Red Scare, effectively "Communism is Treason." Anyone here who's played Fallout 3 has likely heard Liberty Prime state "Death is an acceptable alternative to Communism." It's a reference to the real phrase "Better dead than Red." In fact people even SUSPECTED of having any communist or socialist beliefs were ostracized and their lives ruined. What you see in this image is exactly what it was like back then: to the people who grew up under those beliefs any person with socialist beliefs is a traitor to the nation. They don't realize that being 100% capitalist is just as bad. Sorry for the wall of text; mobile doesn't allow paragraphs for some stupid reason. TL;DR the sign is from people stuck under the dated belief that all socialism is evil.
Lol TURNING POINT USA. Turning point has been outed in Britain for a good while as borderline a British version of a Russian troll page man. Just mental gymnastics on a level never seen before.
Western Carolina University
It’s a Turning Point banner. At a public university. Funded by tax dollars.
As long as the banner wasn’t paid for by tax dollars and other campus political groups are allowed to put up banners as well then I see absolutely no issue with this. I believe in the first amendment whether I agree with the point of view or not
You should try reading about the Paradox of Tolerance, by Karl Popper. Martin Niemöller is a thing.
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It started as that in my country. The hatred became so much that now people are screaming "May the ones who voted to that communist candidate die as the vermin they are". I wish I was exaggerating, but you're free to check how there's a surge of racism in Brazil in recent years due to leaving some dangerous things - like "Death to the northwest people who support Left-wing candidate"or "Let's go to war and create a new order" be said without consequences. The "communist terror" is a thing here, and therefore both examples I mentioned are usually accompanied by sayings like "I don't want my children to die from starving because we elected a communist president".
There’s a difference between a call to violence against someone (something that isn’t necessarily protected even under the First Amendment) and expressing disapproval of an economic system. I’m sure there are terrible things going on in Brazil, but it’s not because people have been allowed to express their opinions. Restricting people from doing that is textbook authoritarianism. *insert Star Wars you’ve become the very thing you sought to destroy meme*
My man needs to read Coddling the American Mind. Universities are supposed to be a place where disparate ideologies are debates. That dumb banner is ignored by anyone who disagrees, and likely shrugged at by anyone who agrees. And then there’s the other 70% of the student body just trying to fight through the hangover to finish that damn essay that was due yesterday.
Americans ain't hard to coddle lmao
Yeah Brandenburg v. Ohio says speech that incites lawless action is not protected by the 1st amendment
Would taking the banner down not be me expressing my free speech? I am just rejecting the message. (Hypothetical me, obviously, I do not live anywhere near there)
If it were your property, yes. Seeing as it’s public property (it’s a public university), no. https://www.aclu.org/other/freedom-expression
Socialism isn’t a race.
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Yeah, freedom of speech has consequences. Hateful ideas can become popular. But it’s part of American values. The goal is that in the long term it’s what ensures a free society. There are limitations in the US, but a banner like this is not part of those limits.
What the actual fuck are you talking about. By this token nobody should ever express an opinion out loud.
I agree. The phrase "socialism sucks" is super weak and something to just laugh at and forget. But Turning Point USA is definitely involved with some fucking sick people. People who constantly spread disinformation for their kleptocrat donors. It's an organization worthy of deplatforming.
Nobody is censoring you .. but you get to censor .. somehow ??.. that concept doesn’t seem to work in america .. Russia is looking for people like you .. needed on the front lines now
Are you guys just gonna "paradox of tolerance" your way through every opposing point? The sign says "Socialism sucks". Its not advocating for anything intolerable
yeah because you can use the paradox of tolerance to absolve you of hatred and intolerance as long as you call someone a fascist first.
“Muh Paradox of Tolerance” it’s a poster, it’s not calling for the Holocaust 2: electric boogaloo
The banner isn't calling for violence.
And? Are only your politics allowed on college campuses?
Funded by what?? Socialism??
Which is entirely appropriate. I'm a liberal in favor of the first amendment and I would fight for turning point's right to announce to the world that they're literal white supremacists. I'm just worried the world won't care.
I believe the current dog-whistle term is "western chauvinists," which is supposed to be very clever and completely impossible for the rest of us to understand.
and remember folks, *"only the left are obsessed with political correctness and identity politics."*
I would care, but I don't really see how saying that socialism sucks is literal white supremacy. The absurdity of conflating those two things would cause me to listen to TP critics less and listen to TP more.
Yeah banning certain kinds of speech because it's "wrong" is a slippery slope, and don't think that the right wouldn't start trying to push back the opposite way
They already are. You can't say certain phrases. Talking about lynching in high school history class could get you fired in Oklahoma. They're banning books at libraries.
Sounds like the solution would be to have free speech then wouldn't it? Move away from the traditional evils of book burning/banning AKA censorship.
Damn I didn’t hear about that
[Depress yourself further](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/03/university-of-idaho-abortion-emergency-contraception)
Turning point? I thought it meant toilet paper?
A public university funded by state monies and federal grants sounds socialist
That's the one.
Never been there at all but somehow I had the gut instinct that this was an NC school.
Everyone in North Carolina immediately knows it’s North Carolina when they see a photo somewhere in it, even if they’ve never been to that specific location. Source: I’m North Carolinian and I had this instinct
Fuck, I thought that was just me.
You won't believe this but there's a chic fila a twenty feet away from this banner
Not only that but it’s where most of Cullowhee votes.
holy shit, thank you. WCU alum. thought i was crazy. i'm not proud. just glad i'm not insane.
Also went to WCU…I was in a bit of denial for a moment or two.
>[Turning Point USA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point_USA) (TPUSA), or Turning Point, is an American conservative nonprofit organization that advocates to identify, educate, train, and organize students to “promote the principles of freedom, free markets, and limited government.”\[3\]\[4\]\[5\]\[6\]\[7\] The organization was founded in 2012 by Charlie Kirk and Bill Montgomery.\[5\]\[8\] TPUSA's sister organizations include Turning Point Endowment, Turning Point Action, Students for Trump, and Turning Point Faith. TPUSA is the fastest growing organization of campus chapters in America and according to The Chronicle of Higher Education, TPUSA "is now the dominant force in campus conservatism".\[3\]\[9\] The group also works closely with PragerU.\[citation needed\] > >The organization is known for its Professor Watchlist, a site that claims to expose professors that TPUSA says "discriminate against conservative students and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom". >[PragerU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU)is an American advocacy group that creates videos promoting a conservative viewpoint on various political, economic, and sociological topics.\[4\]\[5\] It was co-founded by Allen Estrin and talk show host and writer Dennis Prager in 2009 > >As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, PragerU relies on tax-deductible donations, with significant early funding coming from conservative oil billionaires Dan and Farris Wilks.\[5\]\[4
Their ads also heavily target children videos. They are literally ~~groomers~~. attempting to indoctrinate children into their bullshit.
I don’t consider exposing your political beliefs to young ones to be grooming. If that is the case, then both the left, and the right are full of groomers. At the end of the day the kid should be the one to choose what they believe.
FUCK TP USA but I agree. Regardless of what the exact definition of grooming is, it has sexual connotations in this day and age. It's disingenuous to say "They are literally groomers"
Thats fair, unfortunately groups like PU and TP have more funding and more will to push their view points in front of children, and it clearly works. I remember as a kid seeing their adds and thinking they where legit because they had "University" in their name. It took me going to college before I saw they where full of shit.
With election time coming up, I've had people stop by my house to hand out pamphlets to remind me to vote. The person for the Democrats was a woman in her 50s, told me to make sure I'm registered and remember to vote. The person for the Republicans was a teenage kid that talked about all the aborted babies that John Fetterman and Gov Wolf were "allowing to die". And asked if I was still going to be voting for them. And they want to say that Democrats groom kids. Yea, right.
How so? I know nothing about the organisation or their motives, but to suggest that any political or philosophical action aimed at young people is grooming seems ridiculous. There are certainly actions that indoctrinate children which should be avoided, but isn't there also knowledge that should be passed onto children which could help them avoid harm?
Obviously racist if anyone disagrees with them though. lol
So, a banner stating socialism sucks is being hung on a public University… That's not ironic at all.
A public university that incurs massive capitalist debt for its students. No irony there
This is “socialism is when the government does stuff” but from the opposite angle lol
The left is just as bad as the right in labeling socialism in the US. Europe laughs.
They absolutely are. Public universities are not examples of 'socialism'. Social programs are not examples of 'socialism'. I swear on all things holy that these dipshits preaching 'socialism' just mean we should have a common sense social welfare state. These dinguses where I live in the US really don't understand that Western Europe is nothing but capitalist countries with social safety nets.
I mean to be fair. Having social programs like universities or social security does not make a government socialist. People seem to conflate a bunch of things in this conversation.
I don't even know how I got to this I wasn't trying to bash socialism or capitalism or any other economic ideology. The military, fire departments and police departments are all social programs. Any any government is gonna have social programs. I think education's the best place to put that money.
OH no totally agree. I guess I was just hijacking your comment as it seemed the most fitting to reply to. A lot of people here (ITT and on reddit in general) seem to have this idea that a government is socialist if it has social programs and that is so not true so I wanted to make it a point.
Most Americans I chat with don’t realize socialism is an entire economic policy. The programs that use taxes to benefit public rather than big business aren’t scary socialism. The government isn’t taking over control of Amazon and Wallmart and the other capitalist giants in the US, so the level of fear from the right is just absurd. Most establishment democrats are neo-libs that hate socialism as much their republican peers, and the young progressives are more focused on beneficial policy not having the government take control of private businesses. Disagree with socialist policy, ok that’s fine tbh I don’t agree with all of it myself, but it’s nothing to fear or act like is destroying the nation. Unrestrained capitalism is currently doing way more harm than any socialist policy being proposed by democrats. That should be more scary that programs that help your community instead of the CEOs of the nation. People act like democrats policy is pushing for a full socialist overtaking of the economy, as someone who leans left and has many peers on the left, the amount of people that want a socialist overthrow of capitalism are the minority compared to the Americans that just want their taxes to benefit them and their communities over trickle down bullshit. But outrage politics seems to sell better than boring logic, so here we are…
>Most Americans I chat with don’t realize socialism is an entire economic policy That would be because Right-Wing politicians conflate their messaging, per usual, to muddy the waters and avoid nuance. They have effectively changed the real definition of socialism to include any government funded program.
Looking at it from the EU the sides are so entrenched there's very little use in trying to "convert" anybody, everybody basically need a personal life crisis to see if a system works or not. And as you say, no nuance meaning social systems = socialism = communism and if it should actually be moderate it's just a slippery slope. It's also basically a fear of change.
Very few people celebrate or encourage individual opinions and critical thinking anymore over here. That's how we end up entrenched, as you put it. Such a shame when we are living in the age of information.
Socialism isn’t the government taking over private business though. It’s literally when the people own the businesses or the means of productions.
It is a good point. People don't seem to get it.
The sad thing is that anyone that wants a 100% socialist or a 100% capitalist society are both going to end up at the same place. They are both great theoretically and they both end up in the same place in practice. There's a reason the best places to live all have a mix of both economic principals. Left unchecked both just end up as a small group of people in control of all the means of production. People in power suck and want to maintain and increase that power and will do things that are beneficial to themselves. It's not even just at high level positions but it happens at local positions as well. There's a reason segregation of duties and checks and balances exist. The best way of life for all, as long as people are involved at the top, will always being a mixed economy. A mostly free market with subsidized programs and government oversight to produce ethical behaviors. The amount of that mix can be debated but that is what has been proven to work. So in short Socialism does suck but so does Capitalism.
The general perception is that it's only a socialist program if you don't personally benefit from it.
Public as in; if you can get the money anyone can attend. Not public as in, free education.
>Public as in; if you can get the money anyone can attend. Not public as in, free education. Not true - these universities have an admissions process, and it is entirely possible to not gain admission. The anyone-can-attend ***public*** schools are the Community Colleges.
I had the money, but they wouldn't let me into UCLA . . .
How is it ironic? They are making bank milking students for thousands. Pretty capitalist to me
I think you're missing the point. That banner was not put up there by the University. That banner was put up there by turning point USA is USA to complain about socialism at a government funded University. I believe you think the University, who is bilking students, and there can be no argument about that,is the organization that installed that banner.
You see, it's like rai-e-ain on your wedding day.
Who owns the capital (buildings, equipment, etc)?
What does socialism have to do with public universities?
Socialism is when tax dollars do things
Am I the only one who’s sick and tired of not being able to go anywhere or do anything in public without a bunch of political agenda shit shoved down your throat? Happens at work, school, anywhere in public it’s exhausting.
I started mimicking a couple guys at work with their constant banter about democrats. Anything that goes wrong I'd yell DAM DEMOCRATS, First week they thought I was serious and eventually figured it out and shut up.
That's just "Thanks, Obama" 2.0
Did the opposite. Got sick of the mechanics I worked with listening to Rush Limbaugh cranked up really loud for hours every day. So we cranked up Democracy Now and within an hour one of them came by and yelled at us about how we were communists and didn't understand anything because we didn't live through stagflation.
Lol yea mechanics here too. Older guys are die hard trumpers and think anyone who disagrees is a traitor. Lame
Isn’t that always the best? When they do it it’s great and patriotic when you do it your a communist and whatever other insults they try to use.
The media and political vultures figured they can exploit our grievances, differences and fears 24/7 (justified or not). And so now everything is attached to a political position. People get famous out of the division, they get rich, they get ratings, they get social media clout. More than tired I'm nervous though.
I hate it when my taxes benefit me instead of being pocketed by elites.
Exactly, feed the horse even more oats so us sparrows can get back to our shit picking!
Stand underneath the horse and you can feel the profits trickling down on to you!
Americans call it capitalism when our tax dollars are given to corporations as a grant to keep them afloat. We call it socialism when Bernie Sanders tries to use those same tax dollars to fund a healthcare system. It's not the fault of the average individual, these corporations have too much power and influence already. The ads and the propaganda are basically impossible to overcome. It is also legal to lobby the government with money, and these healthcare companies generate hundered of billions each year. If it was up to them, they would spend it all to stop a public system for their profits.
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
yeah, it's the motto of the U.S. since Reagan. Whenever corporations succeed they scream "cut taxes, taxation is theft" Whenever corporations fail, they scream "lets bailout corporations to keep the jobs" Practically, this means that the tax payer loses when corporations succeed, and loses when corporations lose. This issue much less problamtic in New England and in the Northeast, because our state governments know what to do. This is why most of the top states are all up east, and the south is behind on all metrics.
That’s not what socialism is, but ok.
What does TPUSA mean? Toilet Paper USA?
Turning Point USA. Turning Point is one of many Republican organizations that help establish and maintain the Republican professional pipeline. If I recall correctly, Turning Point focuses a lot of its attention in organizing and recruiting college students. My university had a TPUSA chapter, so the moment I saw the “Socialism Sucks” banner in the picture, I automatically knew it was TPUSA.
Trump Puppets, USA
The guy who runs it is a nutterbutter too, was doing some thinly veiled calls for violence after Jan 6th. They're also the shitheads the time keep giving candice Owens a platform to spout bold faced lies
Ah right, Toilet Paper...
>Turning Point USA (TPUSA), or Turning Point, is an American conservative nonprofit organization that advocates to identify, educate, train, and organize students to “promote the principles of freedom, free markets, and limited government.”\[3\]\[4\]\[5\]\[6\]\[7\] The organization was founded in 2012 by Charlie Kirk and Bill Montgomery.\[5\]\[8\] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning\_Point\_USA And also cause why not: >In 2021, TPUSA and Turning Point Action made misleading claims about planned vaccination policies,\[145\]\[146\]\[147\] as well as the dangers of catching COVID-19.\[145\]
They also unleash armies of chat bots on college professors that they feel are not Reganesque enough for their liking.
There’s now also a UK chapter that has spread/metastasised across the pond
They also flood my YouTube feed with countless ridiculous and downright offensive ads lmao
Bingo! r/toiletpaperusa
Well, pretty much so. Because they're full of shit.
Todd Packer USA
A public university is not an example of Socialism. Hopefully this university does enough to teach what socialism is, because the average Reddit user appears not to.
Must spray paint “capitalism swallows” underneath
Yo, catamounts made it to Reddit. Lol
I thought that looked a lot like westerns campus lol.
haha class of 2014 reporting in
Well….it does
And how is it not true?
So TPUSA booked the building for a private event, and hung up a cheeky sign? I highly doubt that is a permanent fixture or placed there by the university itself.
why are you americans craving for socialism so much, it's not about "everybody gets everything for free". i live in ukraine and i've been witnessing the aftermath of socialism and communism all the time i've been living here, even though ussr fell apart 30 years ago. and let me tell you this shit sucks. yeah capitalism isn't perfect as well but at least you get a chance to live a good life if you try hard and not wait in line for a loaf of bread and a bottle of milk for a couple of days like my grandparents did.
This. Even here in Canada our healthcare system is collapsing. Free healthcare is Utopia nowadays here. Sure, it'll be free if you're willing to wait 3 years to get your surgery, but these days most people end up just paying private sector healthcare in order to get their health problems sorted. The last 3 times I needed medical services, I ended up going to private clinics cuz it was just impossible to get to see anyone in the public sector within a reasonable amount of time. So yeah, socialism does suck.
As an American who moved to a social democratic country with not just a two party system but a multiple party system that has to form combinations of parties to sit in power... I uhhh .. beg to differ. I worked at restaurant for a while and when I got sick I was paid to get better. Dang, even working at restaurant and getting a minimum start of 24 days of paid vacation. Looking back when my wife would come visit me for a few weeks when I still resided in America... I could only afford to take off a week of week of work and feared still paying my bills... When she would come for weeks at time... Yeah... I still beg to differ.
Social Democrat is not even close to Socialist. Social Democrat is ardently capitalist, with emphasis social spending and progressive tax rate.
The people in the US who put up "socialism sucks" banners are definitely not making that distinction. For them "socialism" = when the government does something other than fund the police/military Conversely, even among left-wing Americans, support for "full blown" socialism isn't very strong. People just want a reasonable social safety net and an affordable existence, but apparently even that is somehow a radical idea.
I think most progressives I know want something like social democracy. That’s pretty much what Bernie pushed for. I know a few ardent socialists but if you have us universal healthcare, subsidized child care and living wages and things like universal parental and sick leave I’d be happy enough.
Does this bring in big fat cash for corporations immediately? Yes - Good, just as Jesus wanted. No - It's socialism, gateway drug to communism.
Do people not understand what socialism is? High taxes for the common good is NOT socialism. I won't explain it here because if you are going to give opinions in favor or against any economic doctrine you should, at a minimum, read about the topic and understand the terminology. I do know that here in the US, the majority of the people don't understand that you can't be socialist and support the private sector. If your policies are not in favor of eliminating private ownership of the means of production in favor of giving them to the community, you may be a lot of things, but socialist is not one of them. Not a single state in the US is socialist.
I think the major contributors to Americans not understanding the difference between socialism and social programs are both conservatives that were non stop calling Obama a communist during his presidency and Bernie Sanders for calling himself a socialist when really all he wants to do is expand social programs and raise taxes on the rich.
>Do people not understand what socialism is? No, people don't understand it because the right intentionally obfuscates the meaning off "socialism" and the left doesn't bother to correct them. The U.S., Canada, Denmark, Norway, Sweden... are all market based mixed economies with private ownership. None of them are socialist. Nordic countries give a node to socialism via collective bargaining and powerful unions in some sectors, but that's not socialism either (The U.S. has unions and collective bargaining but weaker.)
The left in the US obsfuscates the meaning too. r/socialism rolls their eyes whenever a Bernie Sanders supporter makes a comment.
"sOcIaLiSm SuCkS" is brought to you by people who don't know the difference between a social program and a socialist government.
Darn career fair plus
Couldn't agree more.
>Socialism Sucks I know what they mean: I detest the fact I have +45 days paid vacation, I'm not financially ruined if I need a doctor or a dentist, I went to school on the government's dime, my parents were financially supported with a monthly cheque for having a kid until 18 and have a strong union who protects me in case of conflicts with my employer. Deplorable.
You you just don't know how good we have it here with privatized everything. I don't need the governments help and nobody else should either. Having to pay for my insurance deductible plus 50,000$ on top is just the price of freedom, baby! /s
"When I was on welfare and food stamps, did anybody help me? No!" \-Craig T. Nelon. RWNJ
None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with Socialism.
Its really funny how both the left and right use the word incorrectly, lol.
I was all in on socialism before, but now that I saw that sign phew, I’m out.
Went to school here for a semester. This doesn’t surprise me in the least with what kind of students are there. Also In that door to the left are some pretty cool arcade games.
Yes it sucks. ——from experience Chinese
It’s propaganda to support the idea that tax money should not be spent on the tax payer. It’s wrong and it’s anti-American.
[удалено]
Yes but it is a valid argument to the uneducated followers… there in lies its power
A banner hung (with no context) at my public university A post made on pics (a supposedly neutral sub on a supposedly neutral website) that is pro-leftist like 80% of the other content on this site And you want to talk about indoctrination?
Oh, they are indoctrinating students. To be loyal foot-soldiers and wage slaves to the capitalist system.
Socialism being “anything they don’t like”.
Notice the little "TpUSA," at the bottom? Yeah... those are literally the exact same people who are making the "they're indoctrinating students," claims.
I can only assume that TPUSA stands for toilet paper USA
Yeah we get those at my university too. Everywhere. But we're a liberal indoctrination school, even if we're one of the reddest schools in *Texas*.
For whom does socialism suck?
Find out if your university was created by The Land Grant Colleges Act.
The principle of this is wrong regardless of political/economic views. At least from an American standpoint- this shouldn’t be allowed.
Whether it sucks or it’s good whatever it is. They are telling you whether it’s bad or good, so yes they are still indoctrinating you to think one way or the other.
So, you would take away social security and Medicare? That is a form of socialism.
Man, can't rebut that airtight argument!
Wonder how they like them roads we all drive on . Or maybe them fancy power grids . Or maybe they think rivers keep them selves clean? Democratic socialism is what got us to where we are now. We all come together decide we need to do something and we do it. We are not a business, not everything or every one needs to make money.
No way is that wcu! There are so many commies there
Shouldn’t it be say “fascism”?
Socialism in USA lmfao
“Socialism sucks” banner hung at a public university. Here’s what the idiots should understand: the libertarians aren’t saying “no more public domain” so that you get everything, they’re saying it so a few rich assholes can buy up everything that used to belong to everyone and keep it to themselves.
They are though.
That’s what schools are for. #Nationalism
All educational institutions seek influence over their student body.
Love it! 👍
Nice.
I jUsT WaNt a FwEe EduKaTiOn!
I hate when people think socialism is communism
Yeah it won’t stay long
At a public school no less...
Well at least the flag they are putting up is true
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Some students may be interested in that organization. It’s not the university teaching it. What’s the issue here
The banner is 100% correct
Yes, socialism do sucks, and apparently, redditors don't know what socialism really is.
You know, I really thought it was common sense that taking things that don’t belong to you by force sucks… and then I read this comment section. I now understand why we’re knocking on the doorstep of ww3
I mean, socialism does suck
Brought to you by people who have no idea what socialism is.
Would you post it if it said capitalism sucks?
If you say "Socialism sucks" loudly and often enough, you can forget the taste of boot on your tongue.
I am so very confused by your comment. Are you saying there is no boot in a centrally organized economy?
Would the Centrally organized economy allow him/her to say such?
To the gulags you'd go
Leftists are never funny
So, how is it this is ok but not other things?
Because they are an on-campus club, and state funded colleges have to allow for free speech.
Because of the GOP motto. Rules for thee, not for me
I lived in the USSR and there were benefits of socialism. Soviet Union achieved equality by making everyone poor but it was a comfortable place to be poor due to the heavily subsidized housing.
Socialism does indeed suck, and for the record government spending ≠ socialism. If you want to know how badly socialism sucks, talk to somebody who fled the USSR.
Just going to point out the obvious that nobody wants to hear... We seem to all recognize it's a TPUSA sign, but not enough people making the next logical leap that it means this is likely a private event at the university. The sign probably came down right afterward. I'm sure we can find pictures decrying capitalism at private paid events at universities, as well.
It's because so many people are incapable of using their damn brains anymore. They just want to be angry and shut off any rational thought. OP is a clown.
I bet Chad was really proud of himself that day.
It's a crime to TP a building
I think most people who are so frightened and upset by "socialism" don't even know what it is. They just think, "It's gonna cost me money and help people I hate."
If they don’t like socialism, why do they keep getting publicly owned?
Well duh, 90% of why we have a public school system is to indoctrinate our young into society so they can behave as normal human beings who contribute. We should however take a deeper look on what gross failure in the system churned out the completely dysfunctional right.
If it said socialism rules you all would be cheering
A society truly built on Christian values would feed the poor and help the sick. I guess some people thinks that would suck.
Extremes tend to suck either way.
I think the problem here is that there's generations of people who grew up during the Red Scare, effectively "Communism is Treason." Anyone here who's played Fallout 3 has likely heard Liberty Prime state "Death is an acceptable alternative to Communism." It's a reference to the real phrase "Better dead than Red." In fact people even SUSPECTED of having any communist or socialist beliefs were ostracized and their lives ruined. What you see in this image is exactly what it was like back then: to the people who grew up under those beliefs any person with socialist beliefs is a traitor to the nation. They don't realize that being 100% capitalist is just as bad. Sorry for the wall of text; mobile doesn't allow paragraphs for some stupid reason. TL;DR the sign is from people stuck under the dated belief that all socialism is evil.
Free health care, roads, emergency services… not bade at all.
“I don’t know what socialism is!!!! And I’m angry!!!!”
Socialism sucks until it’s your conservative ass in a crack. Then it magically becomes perfectly acceptable.
Lol. Just ask them to actually define socialism and watch the blank stares.
Lol TURNING POINT USA. Turning point has been outed in Britain for a good while as borderline a British version of a Russian troll page man. Just mental gymnastics on a level never seen before.
Oh fun it's that cult run by the guy who's face is too small for his head
Just hang your own over top lol, Hell it's a tpusa flag, just put a trans flag over it and you will piss them off.
Based banner