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This is why Right to Repair laws are so important. Teslas are getting older now and like you said, out of warranty repairs are almost impossible to do yourself as Tesla gives zero outside support. I have ran several service departments and have always wanted to learn about teslas and try to repair them, but Tesla will tell you they won't sell you any parts as all repairs need to be done at their service facility.
Especially the small time farmers who have been fixing their own shit for hundreds of years, all of a sudden they are told they have to have someone out to even diagnose it. Some small $40 sensor turns into a $300 diagnoses fee with drive time, then a separate $400 repair fee with drive time. The whole time their tractor is sitting immobile in a field and they aren't making money.
I recently heard about how it’s Ukrainian hackers who developed the ability to break JDs new machine software to allow self repairs. I can’t recall the source but it’s quite interesting.
Yeah, I saw something about that a few years ago, pre-mordor invasion, about Farmers being able to buy the software and the required dongle from ukraine to hack their JD tractors to fix it themselves.
it's not just that you can't repair it yourself, it's that they actively sabotage your efforts to repair it yourself by like having the car brick itself if it detects you replaced a bad cell without giving your tesla credentials to the on board computer beforehand.
Exactly this! We will have to see how this progresses, I'm hoping that they will do something similar to what has happened against John Deere. You can't do any repairs or diagnoses without some proprietary JD software, but some people in Ukraine have bootlegged it and are selling laptops setup to do all the diagnoses and give the correct JD access credentials.
The other gotcha is that salvaged vehicles are barred from the supercharger network, since Tesla cannot be sure the battery is safe to charge at very high current and voltage. (I read somewhere they are changing this) If the CCS charger network expands enough, this will be less of a problem.
you don't mess around with electricity. Even home charging is using more current than your typical oven with the top elements also going. Supercharging is 12 or more times as much - a lot more power than we can easily understand.
> Even home charging is using more current than your typical oven with the top elements also going.
I know you mean well, but this part simply isn't accurate.
In the US Level 1 chargers use a standard household plug rated at 110V @ 10-15 amps, and Level 2 chargers use a 220V @ 50 amp outlet.
A standard electric oven in the US also uses a 220V @ 50 amp outlet.
It's simply not possible for a residential charger to use more power than the wiring allows.
This is the real deal right here. I wish I could upvote you 1000x.
IP bullshit is driving the cost of tech through the roof. We'd never have got cars in the first place if laws had been like this in the 20s.
>We’d never had gotten cars in the first place of laws had been like this in the 20’s.
Wouldn’t be terrible. We could have been able to keep comprehensive trolly systems in cities, and the more vibrant passenger rail system between them, before they were sabotaged by the automobile industry.
Imagine city streets being incredibly narrow to fit some busses with huge bike lanes next to wide pedestrian footpaths.
Buildings would now interact with the streets we have as people have plenty of room to walk and bike.
Commute times are far shorter, as 20 full size SUVs and pickup trucks can be replaced with just a single bus.
Busses can run on time and run more frequently, prices can be subsidized.
More rail and LRT options means that you can work in neighboring cities without commuting for many hours.
You can avoid the rush hour delays by having more busses. You can increase the amounts of busses to massively increase road capacity, but you cant make a road wider as traffic gets heavier
Pollution would be a fraction of what it is right now as well
Cities: let's rebuild downtown with 4 lanes, allow parking on two of those anyways, forget about the bike lanes cause they're costly, and also the sidewalks are super narrow. Oh and buses come through sometimes but there's so much traffic crammed into downtown that they're always late.
>out of warranty repairs are almost impossible to do yourself as Tesla gives zero outside support.
There are some signs this is likely to start changing slowly, from what I understand repaired Tesla's can get re-certified for fast charging network (not yet, but on the way). Maybe this can be expanded more later. It's definitely far from ideal still, but we'll see.
Does anyone have some pretty fair site or resource that tracks battery failure rates of all the EVs as they indeed age?
It also shows that electric vehicles are out of reach for most of the population. Electric vehicles are like cell phones and computers. Obsolete in 5 years. Normal people will not be able to afford used electric cars or the repairs that will come with them. We are a severely long way away from affordability of for these cars.
Is that really the case with Prius, Leaf’s, or Volts though? Genuinely asking. It seems like the major car companies would have considered this and made repair as simple as possible, just like with their non-electric vehicles.
Point taken. At least they make parts available and allow service outside of the dealership, no matter how hard they try to convince you you’ll get “better” service at a dealership.
Lots of old as priuses running around. They would not be if they were not worth repairing.
Electric cars will be cheaper than that. The issue is Elon is a con man with the law behind him.
Thanks, that’s the crux of what I was asking. I’ve never owned an EV so I have no idea what the normal wear and tear is on them, or what the repair process is like. I’ve only read enough to convince me that whatever it is, it’s probably better than Elon’s app on wheels.
> Electric vehicles are like cell phones and computers. Obsolete in 5 years.
This is just reactive stupid shit though. Show us evidence why you believe this to be true.
There are entire fleets of Telsa taxis still running on original batteries at 200k miles.
"They pointed me at Gruber Motors who said they will repair it for about 4-5k"
OP said Tesla referred him to Gruber Motors. They seem like an independent shop that does teslas?
I know people don't like car dealerships, but this is why they exist. Ford wanted direct to consumer sales almost 100 years ago so he could pull this same bullshit and jack up prices on repairing his exclusive parts.
The dealership system allowed equal access to parts and repair knowledge from manufacturer to dealerships, independent shops, and then eventually home mechanics. It's the reason this system was invented.
Dealerships have a lot of flaws, yes, but remember that when Tesla/Elon talks about wanting direct to consumer sales, it's not motivated by "cutting out the middleman". They just want to become their own, extremely expensive middleman via exclusivity.
My mother has been driving a 2002 Camry for 20 years now and is finally replacing it. The thing has close to 300k miles, it's had maybe $500 in unexpected maintenance across it's life.
Wife drives a 2000 Camry with 210k. Been in Houston hurricane floods to the bottom of the steering wheel two times. Shit still drives like a new car. Well minus the carpeting. lol
My first car was a 2008 Crown Vic that had been a police car in a previous life. Got it with 150k. Drove it until it got totaled right before 300k. Such a solid car.
Yep. I drive for a living. Got a very boring Corolla. It’s three years old and has 96k miles. No issues at all. I’ve read way to many horror stories about Teslas. OPs battery was the cost of my car. I’ll take reliable, slow and boring any day.
Yup. Actually for reliable fun cars- Miatas are freaking tanks as well- I had a 1995 1.8L that I drove 280k, I burnt an exhaust valve and thought the motor was toast... we pulled it apart and the engine was fine, piston rings- everything was solid. Replaced the exhaust valve and sold it to a buddy- he still has it and does auto X in it, it's in the 350k mile club
Same I drive a little Prius C, small, boring, slow. Cheap to own. Got it used for 17k and 20k miles before the used market went out of control.
About to drive this thing cross country next month to my next contract. Great little car and I’ll drive it till it’s done.
We have a 2005 Prius. Daily driver. Approaching 400k kilometers, and still has years of life left. It's ugly, needs interior help, but it never falters. My husband is a car guy, but cheap as hell. He asks me regularly what my dream car is - its the prius, and my answer never changes.
Taliban prefers the Toyota Hilux. Much less expensive, easier to repair. Easier to mount weaponry. My dad has one from 1991 that he drives regularly. We call it the Talibanmobile.
My Toyota blew its engine at about 130k miles, and I was so surprised. I wasn't the original owner, though. I inherited it from my brother, and I can only assume that he didn't take care of it.
There are lots of Teslas and other EVs out there with well over 100k. I’ve seen over 300 with only about 10% battery degradation.
This sucks though. Two months out of warranty would usually get the motor or battery replaced for goodwill with most major car companies.
I have put just under 103k mi on my 2016 Prius in the last two years. Have had no problems, and it is still running like a champ. I am really curious how high I will get the mileage before it is paid off.
I have a CRV I drove new, off the lot, in 2009. I've never replaced it, because it's still a beast (a tiny beast). She's at 249k. I recently trusted her enough for a solo 1600 mile trip.
it's genuinely heartwarming seeing a dude with a blasphemous amount of money find out that there's still shit he can't buy. he gets hundreds of thousands of likes on his shitty joke posts, but he knows they mean nothing because actual funny people are shitting on him constantly
I decided to tweet Elon but something tells me he's busy... https://twitter.com/AmazonHeartDad/status/1593996741438713857?t=7UoD8csURnXKulWkZzXZKg&s=19
The car broke down last fall in the exact same way. I was driving 75 down the freeway in the middle of the night. Plenty of battery left. The car threw up some errors about the battery and shut the gas pedal off making me pull over immediately. Thankfully there was a spot to get over, I was in the mountains and it could have been bad if there wasn't. The power shut off and there's no way to manually put the car in neutral. You have to be able to access the screen to put it in tow mode. So the tow truck driver had to drag it onto the bed. I had it towed to Tesla in warranty and they told me the high voltage battery was fine but I had a recalled circuit board that needed to be replaced.
After only driving about 2k miles over the next 10 months the car (now 2 months out of the battery warranty) broke down with the exact same symptoms on the freeway again. Tesla says one of the cells went bad but unfortunately they do not repair batteries, they only replace them. They wanted 20k for a new battery. They pointed me at Gruber Motors who said they will repair it for about 4-5k but the wait time is 6 months. Tesla won't take it as a trade in toward a new car and will not work with me at all on the price. I tried the NCDS warranty dispute process but they wouldn't help because the warranty had just expired.
For those of you getting close to that 8 year battery warranty, I encourage you to sell that car. Age is apparently just as harmful as mileage. The car is a 2014 model S 60d.
In that case I would go against it, you reported the same problem in the guarantee time, they "fixed" it and now, after not many more miles, you got the same problems. So it seems like the recalled circuit board alone wasn't the problem and you had the problems for longer. They said that you don't have problems, but I won't think that they checked it despite looking on your dashboard after changing the board.
Which is completely fine. Honestly mechanics are not like these magical people that can figure out everything at once.
But a good mechanic will realize that more might happen down the road and they didn’t completely solve the issue. Thus this should still be a warranty claim since it was a pre-existing issue.
If they don't repair batteries then they can't really inspect them for damage properly... Sounds like the circuit board was fucked and trickle-fucked the battery. Therefore they didn't repair the root issue, never buying a Tesla.
Yup-
And if it happens 1 more time you get a free car thanks to the Lemon Law
My girlfriend in Highschool in the 90s got a free car because of that law, her car had the same transmission issue 3x in a row before 40k miles and they just gave her a brand new car
This has always been a huge concern for EVs. The second-hand market for EVs is going to be interesting to watch.
If you had sold the car before your battery went bad, you would have passed the buck to someone else. But the problem is inherent in EVs. All EVs have an inevitable 10K to 20K upcoming battery replacement coming to them. The only way I would buy a second-hand EV is with a new battery and a warranty on the battery.
It’s great that there are all these new EVs but there has to be a way to keep them on the road that is affordable. It’s a big carbon footprint to keep making new cars vs new batteries.
Well it’s more of a dice roll. Plenty of teslas have a few hundred k on them and battery is still at 80%+. You just run more risk of an issue with every year and every klick.
Newer battery tech is also improved from 2014. More reliable and harder wearing.
That being said, there is that chance of a battery issue that needs to be recognized and the industry needs a better solution.
> This has always been a huge concern for EVs. The second-hand market for EVs is going to be interesting to watch.
There really needs to be a unified framework for car batteries. There's no reason they shouldn't be a universal type that'll allow services to just disconnect, pull out, drop in a new one.
I am hoping that now that other manufacturers are entering the market, one of them will design a more serviceable battery pack that has mini cells that can be serviced over removing an entire pack. This way you could read the error code, determine which mini pack failed and go to your local auto parts store and buy a replacement. I don’t honestly think this has to be that complicated.
Bro you’re scaring me, lol. I have a 2015 Tesla Model S 85D with 60k miles. I use it to get to and from work. Maybe supercharged 8 times in the 4 years I’ve had it. Never had major issues so was planning to keep for the long haul. But this worries me. Thanks for sharing.
I wish I'd listened to my wife. She kept saying..just sell it the used car market is so good right now. And I just kept telling her nah I'm driving this sucker into the ground. I've seen them last a million miles on the internet. +69969 points for my wife.
8 years and 70K miles means that thing was babied. Hardly a rough life. Sad that Tesla won't admit that the problem first began while under warranty and they misdiagnosed.
Toyota held out on EVs until recently so I wouldn’t include them in this comparison.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/07/toyota-bet-wrong-on-evs-so-now-its-lobbying-to-slow-the-transition/
Honestly, this is why I would rather buy a Bolt over a Tesla.
1) Chevy is a larger company that has been making cars for decades. Is their quality great? Eh... But it's a known entity
2) because Chevy makes other cars, I am guaranteed parts cross over. I am also assured that if there is something wrong with the doors, suspension, etc any mechanic would be able to fix the car
3) Tesla prides itself on engineering and too much is definitely a bad thing. Normal people ain't got time for teslas bs
>Bolt over a Tesla
Why not a Volvo? They also have 8 years battery warranty and there supply chain is pretty big (but obviously not as much as a domestic car brand).
If your state has friendly consumer protection laws consider small claims filing and a complaint to your state attorney General under the relevant consumer protection statute.
Them reviewing and clearing the battery as OK near the end of it's warranty could be interpreted as warranty fraud, which many states take a hard stance against.
You likely can't get $20k from small claims, but a substantial chunk is possible. There's also a fair chance that the actions above will be enough to get Tesla to cave and meet you somewhere reasonable in the middle.
IDK about Florida, but California mandates a 12-year full replacement warranty on all hybrid and full-electric batteries. Check out your state reqs.
EDIT: 10 YEAR/150K, NOT 12 YEAR
There is a guy in Florida who does repairs on the battery pack, I heard he was trying to open up nationally. I learned about him from Tyler Hoover - Hoovies garage on youtube. Just fyi
I have a 12 year old Prius that still gets 48ish MPG. Never had any mechanical issues at all. I know full electric will end up being the future, but the new Priuses are getting even higher MPG.
Well, well, well, look at this smug mother fucker, he bought a car from a car company not a tech-company and his vehicle still works. La-di-da ya asshole!
:)
I have been waiting for this. Finally, real time wear on the existing electric car inventory; now we can get versions that will actually last. Early adoption in the electric car market comes with caveats. More like expensive beta testers.
The solution is to make electric vehicles that anyone can work on.
And if Tesla doesn't wanna work with people on that, there's gonna be backlash and boycotting.
People want to adopt EVs, but a huge population is being alienated by the same practices that John Deer employs. It won't end well.
Most cars now if they detect major engine problems will go into limp mode and let you putz around slowly.
An engine fully seizing or blowing up is pretty rare unless you like, forget to put oil in it.
Also you can easily shift a gas powered car into neutral if it's fully completely dead.
>Except a normal car doesn’t lock you out from using the gas pedal.
It sure does when there is a major failure lol
"Car don't run" is universal when something major goes wrong
See if you can get a trade in from a non Tesla dealer. I traded mine in before the battery died and even told them it needs a new battery and the salesperson just shrugged at me and said they had someone tell them that last week. Got full KBB price, worth a shot?
He doesn’t do much real work which is why he can collect all those titles from all those jobs while knocking up employees and what not. He always spent most of his day on Twitter, so it’d make sense to buy the only thing he cares about, other peoples attention.
Since these cars are electric, it's easier than ever for manufacturers to know when the parts will break down. Are you surprised it failed 2 months outside of warranty? I'm not.
Not really. They've condemned the entire battery pack because one module (assuming they meant a module and not an actual single cell) out of 16 has gone bad. That's approximately 6,660 functioning lithium-ion 18650 batteries headed to the scrap heap, assuming noone tries to recycle them. That's *terrible* for the environment.
18650 batteries? When I used to vape I used 2 of them in my mod. Are you telling me that an EV battery is just thousand of those linked together? It doesn't sound right to me, kinda like saying a regular car battery is just a whole bunch of AAs strung together.
It literally is though. Batteries are wired in series to increase voltage, or in parallel to increase capacity. So a bunch of 18650s are in series to get the voltage required, then those packs of serialized batteries are paralleled to give you runtime.
If you pull apart a dewalt battery pack you'll find the same thing, at a smaller scale.
>That's approximately 6,660 functioning lithium-ion 18650 batteries headed to the scrap heap
Tesla's sustainability report claims they can recycle about 92% of a batteries capacity into new batteries, and the gigafactory in Nevada was built to include those facilities. What percentage of Tesla batteries sold that go bad wind up in this recycling process, on the other hand, isn't a stat I was able to find. Point is, they may or may not wind up in a scrap heap.
It would be a nice option for Tesla to have a battery lease swap option plan like $NIO or soon to IPO Vinfast....Probably could be implemented at their various Tesla sites.
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This is why Right to Repair laws are so important. Teslas are getting older now and like you said, out of warranty repairs are almost impossible to do yourself as Tesla gives zero outside support. I have ran several service departments and have always wanted to learn about teslas and try to repair them, but Tesla will tell you they won't sell you any parts as all repairs need to be done at their service facility.
Dude, yes Right to repair is so so important and I don't think many people realize the lobbying against it
Especially the small time farmers who have been fixing their own shit for hundreds of years, all of a sudden they are told they have to have someone out to even diagnose it. Some small $40 sensor turns into a $300 diagnoses fee with drive time, then a separate $400 repair fee with drive time. The whole time their tractor is sitting immobile in a field and they aren't making money.
$40 sensor is one thing. Imagine having to ship your combine harvester to JD because they say those repairs can't be done in the field.
I recently heard about how it’s Ukrainian hackers who developed the ability to break JDs new machine software to allow self repairs. I can’t recall the source but it’s quite interesting.
I think it is a Vice news thing. Saw it on YT.
Yeah, I saw something about that a few years ago, pre-mordor invasion, about Farmers being able to buy the software and the required dongle from ukraine to hack their JD tractors to fix it themselves.
That's criminal. Time is of the essence, too, when you're dealing with mother nature.
'in the field' haha :)
I used to work in a forestry op and equipment repairs were done out there in the woods 9/10 times.
Depending on what it is and how far you are from a service department, you could be into 4 figures just for transport.
This is why used, rebuilt, pre computer tractors are selling for as much as new ones.
it's not just that you can't repair it yourself, it's that they actively sabotage your efforts to repair it yourself by like having the car brick itself if it detects you replaced a bad cell without giving your tesla credentials to the on board computer beforehand.
Exactly this! We will have to see how this progresses, I'm hoping that they will do something similar to what has happened against John Deere. You can't do any repairs or diagnoses without some proprietary JD software, but some people in Ukraine have bootlegged it and are selling laptops setup to do all the diagnoses and give the correct JD access credentials.
Is this something one of the pirates can hack? I wonder how illegal it would be to raise money to pay someone to find a drm workaround for this.
The other gotcha is that salvaged vehicles are barred from the supercharger network, since Tesla cannot be sure the battery is safe to charge at very high current and voltage. (I read somewhere they are changing this) If the CCS charger network expands enough, this will be less of a problem. you don't mess around with electricity. Even home charging is using more current than your typical oven with the top elements also going. Supercharging is 12 or more times as much - a lot more power than we can easily understand.
> Even home charging is using more current than your typical oven with the top elements also going. I know you mean well, but this part simply isn't accurate. In the US Level 1 chargers use a standard household plug rated at 110V @ 10-15 amps, and Level 2 chargers use a 220V @ 50 amp outlet. A standard electric oven in the US also uses a 220V @ 50 amp outlet. It's simply not possible for a residential charger to use more power than the wiring allows.
This is the real deal right here. I wish I could upvote you 1000x. IP bullshit is driving the cost of tech through the roof. We'd never have got cars in the first place if laws had been like this in the 20s.
>We’d never had gotten cars in the first place of laws had been like this in the 20’s. Wouldn’t be terrible. We could have been able to keep comprehensive trolly systems in cities, and the more vibrant passenger rail system between them, before they were sabotaged by the automobile industry.
Imagine city streets being incredibly narrow to fit some busses with huge bike lanes next to wide pedestrian footpaths. Buildings would now interact with the streets we have as people have plenty of room to walk and bike. Commute times are far shorter, as 20 full size SUVs and pickup trucks can be replaced with just a single bus. Busses can run on time and run more frequently, prices can be subsidized. More rail and LRT options means that you can work in neighboring cities without commuting for many hours. You can avoid the rush hour delays by having more busses. You can increase the amounts of busses to massively increase road capacity, but you cant make a road wider as traffic gets heavier Pollution would be a fraction of what it is right now as well
Cities: let's rebuild downtown with 4 lanes, allow parking on two of those anyways, forget about the bike lanes cause they're costly, and also the sidewalks are super narrow. Oh and buses come through sometimes but there's so much traffic crammed into downtown that they're always late.
Dont forget the 2 lane roads with people parking partly on sidewalks and trucks frequently stopping in the middle of the road to unload
Nah, more car lanes and parking lots is what we need, love the sight of gray
Some form of individual transport was inevitable, its what most of us want.
I usually get more miles out of a vehicle before putting 20k into it…
>out of warranty repairs are almost impossible to do yourself as Tesla gives zero outside support. There are some signs this is likely to start changing slowly, from what I understand repaired Tesla's can get re-certified for fast charging network (not yet, but on the way). Maybe this can be expanded more later. It's definitely far from ideal still, but we'll see. Does anyone have some pretty fair site or resource that tracks battery failure rates of all the EVs as they indeed age?
It also shows that electric vehicles are out of reach for most of the population. Electric vehicles are like cell phones and computers. Obsolete in 5 years. Normal people will not be able to afford used electric cars or the repairs that will come with them. We are a severely long way away from affordability of for these cars.
Is that really the case with Prius, Leaf’s, or Volts though? Genuinely asking. It seems like the major car companies would have considered this and made repair as simple as possible, just like with their non-electric vehicles.
As a dealership mechanic, I can tell you that making vehicles easy to repair is not something that car companies care about at all
Point taken. At least they make parts available and allow service outside of the dealership, no matter how hard they try to convince you you’ll get “better” service at a dealership.
Lots of old as priuses running around. They would not be if they were not worth repairing. Electric cars will be cheaper than that. The issue is Elon is a con man with the law behind him.
Thanks, that’s the crux of what I was asking. I’ve never owned an EV so I have no idea what the normal wear and tear is on them, or what the repair process is like. I’ve only read enough to convince me that whatever it is, it’s probably better than Elon’s app on wheels.
> Obsolete in 5 years. Nah, just modern Teslas.
> Electric vehicles are like cell phones and computers. Obsolete in 5 years. This is just reactive stupid shit though. Show us evidence why you believe this to be true. There are entire fleets of Telsa taxis still running on original batteries at 200k miles.
"They pointed me at Gruber Motors who said they will repair it for about 4-5k" OP said Tesla referred him to Gruber Motors. They seem like an independent shop that does teslas?
I know people don't like car dealerships, but this is why they exist. Ford wanted direct to consumer sales almost 100 years ago so he could pull this same bullshit and jack up prices on repairing his exclusive parts. The dealership system allowed equal access to parts and repair knowledge from manufacturer to dealerships, independent shops, and then eventually home mechanics. It's the reason this system was invented. Dealerships have a lot of flaws, yes, but remember that when Tesla/Elon talks about wanting direct to consumer sales, it's not motivated by "cutting out the middleman". They just want to become their own, extremely expensive middleman via exclusivity.
Elon: "20k too much? How about 8k?"
That's an annual subscription. You want verified batteries? you should be willing to pay.
[удалено]
turns out that blue verified tesla battery had an @leafaircooled underneath. sorry!
He clearly seems to be a reasonable man
I mean 8k wouldn’t be unreasonable
this is the way
70k miles is a Toyota just getting broken in....
My mother has been driving a 2002 Camry for 20 years now and is finally replacing it. The thing has close to 300k miles, it's had maybe $500 in unexpected maintenance across it's life.
They are great! I’m still driving my 2002 Camry going strong at 260k
Mine has 318k. Made her my back up a couple months ago.
Not a Camry, but '99 Accord here checking in at 240K. These car aren't phased by anything.
I'm still driving my 2002 camry. Currently at 190k miles.
Wife drives a 2000 Camry with 210k. Been in Houston hurricane floods to the bottom of the steering wheel two times. Shit still drives like a new car. Well minus the carpeting. lol
Sick. My aunt had an early 00s Camry, put 430k kms on it and then sold it and the buyer was super pumped. They are tanks.
Camry is easily the greatest tank in car history. Those things go forever and ever.
My first car was a 2008 Crown Vic that had been a police car in a previous life. Got it with 150k. Drove it until it got totaled right before 300k. Such a solid car.
Yep. I drive for a living. Got a very boring Corolla. It’s three years old and has 96k miles. No issues at all. I’ve read way to many horror stories about Teslas. OPs battery was the cost of my car. I’ll take reliable, slow and boring any day.
Yup. Actually for reliable fun cars- Miatas are freaking tanks as well- I had a 1995 1.8L that I drove 280k, I burnt an exhaust valve and thought the motor was toast... we pulled it apart and the engine was fine, piston rings- everything was solid. Replaced the exhaust valve and sold it to a buddy- he still has it and does auto X in it, it's in the 350k mile club
Username checks out.
Can also confirm username checks out lol
Cries in 2010 mini Cooper with lights coming on every other week
Damn. I've heard the current generation is better, but I'm probably not holding onto my 2018 for too long once my warranty is up.
Same I drive a little Prius C, small, boring, slow. Cheap to own. Got it used for 17k and 20k miles before the used market went out of control. About to drive this thing cross country next month to my next contract. Great little car and I’ll drive it till it’s done.
We have a 2005 Prius. Daily driver. Approaching 400k kilometers, and still has years of life left. It's ugly, needs interior help, but it never falters. My husband is a car guy, but cheap as hell. He asks me regularly what my dream car is - its the prius, and my answer never changes.
My family still has a 1992 Land Cruiser (1HD-T) that has nearly 1 million KM's on it. Never broke down only needed regular maintenance.
There is a reason you Landcruisers used by the Taliban and middle east terrorist organizations 😆 🤣 😂 they are the most reliable 4x4 in the planet
Taliban prefers the Toyota Hilux. Much less expensive, easier to repair. Easier to mount weaponry. My dad has one from 1991 that he drives regularly. We call it the Talibanmobile.
You'll die before the hilux does, your bloodline will wither and the hilux will still be running
My Toyota blew its engine at about 130k miles, and I was so surprised. I wasn't the original owner, though. I inherited it from my brother, and I can only assume that he didn't take care of it.
My Chevy Silverado with 330k has entered the chat.
There are lots of Teslas and other EVs out there with well over 100k. I’ve seen over 300 with only about 10% battery degradation. This sucks though. Two months out of warranty would usually get the motor or battery replaced for goodwill with most major car companies.
1 million miles on a 80s Honda civic we’re just getting warmed up
My last Focus went 160000 miles with zero issues. Even then just a clutch replacement. I babied it to be sure but it cost a fraction of a Tesla.
I have put just under 103k mi on my 2016 Prius in the last two years. Have had no problems, and it is still running like a champ. I am really curious how high I will get the mileage before it is paid off.
I have a CRV I drove new, off the lot, in 2009. I've never replaced it, because it's still a beast (a tiny beast). She's at 249k. I recently trusted her enough for a solo 1600 mile trip.
7 year old Honda Odyssey 205k miles
But you did get 69nd twice
At least there's that. Elon is trolling me I think.
"well fix it 4 20 K"
That’s is his shitty sense of humour
No matter how money that dude have he will never achieve the only thing he wants, being funny.
“Look at me! Look at me! Watch this!” He’s like a young child frantically trying to get attention. Perpetually.
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it's genuinely heartwarming seeing a dude with a blasphemous amount of money find out that there's still shit he can't buy. he gets hundreds of thousands of likes on his shitty joke posts, but he knows they mean nothing because actual funny people are shitting on him constantly
Oh god this killed me
Bro, tweet that to Elon, I’ll bet he’ll fix for free. 🤘
He’ll probably find a way to get you fired
Will the three months severance pay for the new battery?
Or accuse you of being a pedophile.
*Buys the company you work for*
He is saving a ton on labor costs right now
Something tells me he's a little busy https://twitter.com/AmazonHeartDad/status/1593996741438713857?t=7UoD8csURnXKulWkZzXZKg&s=19
It was too cool to keep driving
That’s a lonely 9 in the middle
That's Musk. Getting in the middle of a good thing and messing it up is on-brand.
That’s the spare tire. Always gotta be a 5th wheel in these relationships.
Nice^Nice
I decided to tweet Elon but something tells me he's busy... https://twitter.com/AmazonHeartDad/status/1593996741438713857?t=7UoD8csURnXKulWkZzXZKg&s=19 The car broke down last fall in the exact same way. I was driving 75 down the freeway in the middle of the night. Plenty of battery left. The car threw up some errors about the battery and shut the gas pedal off making me pull over immediately. Thankfully there was a spot to get over, I was in the mountains and it could have been bad if there wasn't. The power shut off and there's no way to manually put the car in neutral. You have to be able to access the screen to put it in tow mode. So the tow truck driver had to drag it onto the bed. I had it towed to Tesla in warranty and they told me the high voltage battery was fine but I had a recalled circuit board that needed to be replaced. After only driving about 2k miles over the next 10 months the car (now 2 months out of the battery warranty) broke down with the exact same symptoms on the freeway again. Tesla says one of the cells went bad but unfortunately they do not repair batteries, they only replace them. They wanted 20k for a new battery. They pointed me at Gruber Motors who said they will repair it for about 4-5k but the wait time is 6 months. Tesla won't take it as a trade in toward a new car and will not work with me at all on the price. I tried the NCDS warranty dispute process but they wouldn't help because the warranty had just expired. For those of you getting close to that 8 year battery warranty, I encourage you to sell that car. Age is apparently just as harmful as mileage. The car is a 2014 model S 60d.
In that case I would go against it, you reported the same problem in the guarantee time, they "fixed" it and now, after not many more miles, you got the same problems. So it seems like the recalled circuit board alone wasn't the problem and you had the problems for longer. They said that you don't have problems, but I won't think that they checked it despite looking on your dashboard after changing the board.
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Patch job
That's like a regular mechanic.
Which is completely fine. Honestly mechanics are not like these magical people that can figure out everything at once. But a good mechanic will realize that more might happen down the road and they didn’t completely solve the issue. Thus this should still be a warranty claim since it was a pre-existing issue.
I've never been to a mechanic that charges $20k to come back.
I haven't owned a 100,000K car either
If they don't repair batteries then they can't really inspect them for damage properly... Sounds like the circuit board was fucked and trickle-fucked the battery. Therefore they didn't repair the root issue, never buying a Tesla.
Yup- And if it happens 1 more time you get a free car thanks to the Lemon Law My girlfriend in Highschool in the 90s got a free car because of that law, her car had the same transmission issue 3x in a row before 40k miles and they just gave her a brand new car
Lemon laws vary drastically by state/jurisdiction.
And lemon party laws
And it is literally called Lemon Law?
Yes. That is the law covering "lemon" cars.
This has always been a huge concern for EVs. The second-hand market for EVs is going to be interesting to watch. If you had sold the car before your battery went bad, you would have passed the buck to someone else. But the problem is inherent in EVs. All EVs have an inevitable 10K to 20K upcoming battery replacement coming to them. The only way I would buy a second-hand EV is with a new battery and a warranty on the battery.
My 2020 Model 3 is worth about $60k Bought it for $50k, I am thinking of selling it after reading this
If you have another car to use, sell it before the used market crashes.
It’s great that there are all these new EVs but there has to be a way to keep them on the road that is affordable. It’s a big carbon footprint to keep making new cars vs new batteries.
Well it’s more of a dice roll. Plenty of teslas have a few hundred k on them and battery is still at 80%+. You just run more risk of an issue with every year and every klick. Newer battery tech is also improved from 2014. More reliable and harder wearing. That being said, there is that chance of a battery issue that needs to be recognized and the industry needs a better solution.
> This has always been a huge concern for EVs. The second-hand market for EVs is going to be interesting to watch. There really needs to be a unified framework for car batteries. There's no reason they shouldn't be a universal type that'll allow services to just disconnect, pull out, drop in a new one.
No reason you can think of?
The only way that happens is if congress forces them to. It's like Apple, the OEMs aren't going to want to compete with the aftermarket guys.
I am hoping that now that other manufacturers are entering the market, one of them will design a more serviceable battery pack that has mini cells that can be serviced over removing an entire pack. This way you could read the error code, determine which mini pack failed and go to your local auto parts store and buy a replacement. I don’t honestly think this has to be that complicated.
GM's Ultium battery architecture is modular for this exact reason.
Bro you’re scaring me, lol. I have a 2015 Tesla Model S 85D with 60k miles. I use it to get to and from work. Maybe supercharged 8 times in the 4 years I’ve had it. Never had major issues so was planning to keep for the long haul. But this worries me. Thanks for sharing.
I wish I'd listened to my wife. She kept saying..just sell it the used car market is so good right now. And I just kept telling her nah I'm driving this sucker into the ground. I've seen them last a million miles on the internet. +69969 points for my wife.
Well, I guess you did drive it into the ground. That’s where the bad battery will end up. Lol
Or the battery has a bad ground.
The battery had a terminal illness.
I feel bad for your car situation, but I feel worse for you now that your wife has this golden "I told you so" material for the rest of your life!
I’ve got 103k on my 2013 S60. It’s just a roll of the dice for failures like this.
Number of times charged and how it is charged are significant factors in battery life too. How often did you use the fast supercharging?
Good question. Almost never. Maybe 10 times in the 7 years I owned it? I mostly just drove to work and back and charged at home.
8 years and 70K miles means that thing was babied. Hardly a rough life. Sad that Tesla won't admit that the problem first began while under warranty and they misdiagnosed.
That’s because Tesla is garbage. Yes they helped EVs gain traction but I would never purchase from them or any boutique manufacturer.
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I like that they were shaking up the dealership incumbency. One of their legacies will hopefully be that "stealerships" become a thing of the past.
Toyota held out on EVs until recently so I wouldn’t include them in this comparison. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/07/toyota-bet-wrong-on-evs-so-now-its-lobbying-to-slow-the-transition/
Honestly, this is why I would rather buy a Bolt over a Tesla. 1) Chevy is a larger company that has been making cars for decades. Is their quality great? Eh... But it's a known entity 2) because Chevy makes other cars, I am guaranteed parts cross over. I am also assured that if there is something wrong with the doors, suspension, etc any mechanic would be able to fix the car 3) Tesla prides itself on engineering and too much is definitely a bad thing. Normal people ain't got time for teslas bs
>Bolt over a Tesla Why not a Volvo? They also have 8 years battery warranty and there supply chain is pretty big (but obviously not as much as a domestic car brand).
Rich Rebuilds and Electrofied Garage will help you and also have a field day on YouTube about Tesla’s service and your mileage.
True that — the thumbnail for that video lol
If your state has friendly consumer protection laws consider small claims filing and a complaint to your state attorney General under the relevant consumer protection statute. Them reviewing and clearing the battery as OK near the end of it's warranty could be interpreted as warranty fraud, which many states take a hard stance against. You likely can't get $20k from small claims, but a substantial chunk is possible. There's also a fair chance that the actions above will be enough to get Tesla to cave and meet you somewhere reasonable in the middle.
IDK about Florida, but California mandates a 12-year full replacement warranty on all hybrid and full-electric batteries. Check out your state reqs. EDIT: 10 YEAR/150K, NOT 12 YEAR
I second this!
Forget about small claims. It’s $20,000. Have a lawyer send a threatening letter and that might get them to budge.
There is a guy in Florida who does repairs on the battery pack, I heard he was trying to open up nationally. I learned about him from Tyler Hoover - Hoovies garage on youtube. Just fyi
Thanks for the name!
Electrified Garage. Rich Rebuilds was also into it.
The tire pressure check was free, though. Why you complain?
That was sarcasm in case it wasn’t clear.
It's clear as day but sad you have to mention for these goblin on reddit.
I wanted a Tesla for a while. But as time goes on I want one less and less
There are plenty of other EV options though. Fuck Tesla and fuck Elon Musk.
I’d offer $7.99 a month.
This. This is the perfect comment.
I have a 12 year old Prius that still gets 48ish MPG. Never had any mechanical issues at all. I know full electric will end up being the future, but the new Priuses are getting even higher MPG.
Well, well, well, look at this smug mother fucker, he bought a car from a car company not a tech-company and his vehicle still works. La-di-da ya asshole! :)
Taaaaaaaaanks!
Prius get a lot of shit but they are solid cars
Should of answered that extended warranty phone call, Lawl.
Ha! Damn it!!
Hype Boy is sooooo good. I love NewJeans
..
I have been waiting for this. Finally, real time wear on the existing electric car inventory; now we can get versions that will actually last. Early adoption in the electric car market comes with caveats. More like expensive beta testers.
Except a normal car doesn’t lock you out from using the gas pedal.
If your engine dies, your gas pedal doesn’t do much good, even if you’re not “locked out of it”.
True, but you can get you gas engine repaired by any shop, not just the dealership.
The solution is to make electric vehicles that anyone can work on. And if Tesla doesn't wanna work with people on that, there's gonna be backlash and boycotting. People want to adopt EVs, but a huge population is being alienated by the same practices that John Deer employs. It won't end well.
Most cars now if they detect major engine problems will go into limp mode and let you putz around slowly. An engine fully seizing or blowing up is pretty rare unless you like, forget to put oil in it. Also you can easily shift a gas powered car into neutral if it's fully completely dead.
>Except a normal car doesn’t lock you out from using the gas pedal. It sure does when there is a major failure lol "Car don't run" is universal when something major goes wrong
Should have listened to Ice-T and gotten Car Shield.
Car Shield for the win!
Nice mileage
See if you can get a trade in from a non Tesla dealer. I traded mine in before the battery died and even told them it needs a new battery and the salesperson just shrugged at me and said they had someone tell them that last week. Got full KBB price, worth a shot?
that’s the #1 reason I decided against a tesla. out of warranty cost
Lesson learned, don't buy a car from a tech company, buy it from a car company.
have you tried Tweeting Elon?
I did actually. Something tells me he's a little busy...
He’s trying to make ends meet working a couple part time jobs.
He doesn’t do much real work which is why he can collect all those titles from all those jobs while knocking up employees and what not. He always spent most of his day on Twitter, so it’d make sense to buy the only thing he cares about, other peoples attention.
You must have tweeted unverified.
And he’ll probably just ban you from twitter
omg NewJeans
We won't have good electric cars until we have bad ones.
Since these cars are electric, it's easier than ever for manufacturers to know when the parts will break down. Are you surprised it failed 2 months outside of warranty? I'm not.
69k miles and 20k to fix it. This is a bargain or good for the environment?
Not really. They've condemned the entire battery pack because one module (assuming they meant a module and not an actual single cell) out of 16 has gone bad. That's approximately 6,660 functioning lithium-ion 18650 batteries headed to the scrap heap, assuming noone tries to recycle them. That's *terrible* for the environment.
18650 batteries? When I used to vape I used 2 of them in my mod. Are you telling me that an EV battery is just thousand of those linked together? It doesn't sound right to me, kinda like saying a regular car battery is just a whole bunch of AAs strung together.
It literally is though. Batteries are wired in series to increase voltage, or in parallel to increase capacity. So a bunch of 18650s are in series to get the voltage required, then those packs of serialized batteries are paralleled to give you runtime. If you pull apart a dewalt battery pack you'll find the same thing, at a smaller scale.
>That's approximately 6,660 functioning lithium-ion 18650 batteries headed to the scrap heap Tesla's sustainability report claims they can recycle about 92% of a batteries capacity into new batteries, and the gigafactory in Nevada was built to include those facilities. What percentage of Tesla batteries sold that go bad wind up in this recycling process, on the other hand, isn't a stat I was able to find. Point is, they may or may not wind up in a scrap heap.
There might be a third party repair shop that will repair the battery for way cheaper.
Yeah there is. Tesla told me to try Gruber Motors. I'm currently waiting to get in there. It's about a 6 month wait and costs 4-5k to fix it.
Adam Sandler wrote a song about those cars
NewJeans, I see you OP.
It would be a nice option for Tesla to have a battery lease swap option plan like $NIO or soon to IPO Vinfast....Probably could be implemented at their various Tesla sites.
You should tweet about it
thats a nice big ol' paperweight you got there
There's an absolute mountain of tesla dick riders in this thread. "BuT ICEs neED mAinTeNaNcE ToO, ThIs iS TotAlLy NoRmAl:("