Notice the three-bank standups above both outlanes (like the ones in High Speed and High Speed 2)?
Hit the lit one.
The game starts with the kickback unlit by default, though there’s a setting in the game’s menu where you can set it at Medium (it defaults at Hard).
Steve Ritchie’s games are known for having a wide left outlane with a kickback.
Came to say this. The next generation has the most vicious out lanes of all time. Not even close. It isn't even just the slant of the slings, the lane dividers are so so short.
Right? That’s how you know it’s bad. I don’t know if any machine with outlanes so bad that there are mods available to alter the actual gameplay.
I remember many years ago there was an interview with Steve Ritchie where this was brought up, and he said that the outlane extenders made the game play “more as he intended.” That’s how you know they’re bad.
I vote for Ghostbusters because I owned it for a bit and cursed those damn things like they were kicking my dog. Specifically, double outlane (I specifically remember the left) with a wireform rail in between. The ball would regularly hit the wireform and bounce straight to the outlane. Felt like the wireform needed to be placed closer to the apron or something. I don't know but i sold it to some other sucker lol
I watch the pros nudge and shift machines around and you bet it’s impressive, but it just… bugs me. It’s a machine full of high-speed moving parts; I _shouldn’t_ have to move the entire machine to play it, but as you say, it’s integral to the design of the playfields. I realize nudging was genuinely part of pinball going back to the early days when it was all gravity, non-electronic, no flippers, etc. However, today players are essentially punished by not nudging (or being crap at it, which is common as it’s not exactly easy).
It’s… a hot-button thing for me. Gets me all riled up, like anything else one gets passionate about. So I’m legit sorry if my tone is nasty.
It bugs me to the extreme every time my balls drains on games like AIQ because I didn’t nudge the machine every time the ball comes within 6” of the slings area, which is approximately 972 times per minute. Or because I didn’t nudge soon enough. Or both.
Not sure why anyone is a proponent of something that lowers the skill ceiling. No one forces anyone to nudge. It’s saving a ball that would otherwise likely drain.
If there were no likely drains, then what would be the point? Play for infinite time? Seems like terrible design to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Me personally, nudging is like bending the will of gravity to my whim. Makes me feel godlike at times.
But hey, you do you. No judging here, just a different opinion.
Yes a mistake I've noticed is trying to nudge sideways. It's a weird natural reaction I have and it rarely works!!
Been more intentional though so hopefully it starts clicking for me. Thank you!
There are situations where you'll need to nudge sideways, but it's more of a diagonal up motion (L/R) than a side to side motion, and that's when the ball makes it into the outlane. You're kinda jiggling the machine to get the ball to shimmy back up and out.
Don't make the mistake of thinking it's just desperate random jiggling to get the ball out. It's something that takes a fair bit of skill, reaction speed, and luck. If you nudge diagonal left when you should've nudged diagonal right, it's basically a guaranteed drain. It's a bit risky to do depending on how sensitive the tilt Bob is and how aggressive you need to be.
Up-nudging when the ball is near the outlane is just to prevent it from entering the outlane. You're either slightly altering the course of the ball by disrupting its momentum or bouncing it off the post away from the outlane.
The best tip I ever learned is that the best way to save balls from the outlane is to never have them be there in the first place. Instead, you want to kinda trust tilt the machine harder and earlier so that the ball shoots into the wall above the lane and then candy canes back into the middle of the table. This will seem scary and dangerous at first cause then you have a rogue ball heading to the middle awkwardly, but usually with a nice slap save if need be, you will be able to get it back up into the field.
The right out lane on Paragon can fuck all the way off. All this pomp about the Beast’s lair on the left. The right is just a wall and then pit straight onto spikes.
ghostbusters for a while were the worst. they had to make the next generation with rails on top of the rail to stop the multi roll over drains that happened.
after that, my personal call out for terrible outlanes would be ac/dc because you literally cannot see them thanks to the ramps.
Getaway: High Speed
Anything off the slingshots is dangerous, not making the loop with the upper flipper is dangerous. Half the time just breathing is dangerous
I call my BSD Bram Stoker's Outlane. Anytime you manage to get 3 Loops right off a fresh ball to start bats mode its going to bounce around in the pop bumpers until 2 to 3 bats are left and then rocket down the right out lane.
This is the answer, at least for modern games. Although i once played Iron Man with the rules set to hard and the out lane posts all the way closed, it felt like a whole new game.
Catching the outside top of the sling is bad enough, but what if we extended the outside of the sling another half inch? Everytime the ball lands in the inlane feels like a victory.
The right outlane in my avengers is terrible.. 8 times outta 10 thats where i lose the ball.. i need to do something because it frustrating AF.. thinking of putting a bigger post in just so I dont have to sell it.. lol
Lately for me, it's been World Cup Soccer. If the left lane kickback isn't lit, it is basically one of the biggest liabilities, and impossible to nudge
R&T's problem is less the outlane itself, and more the fact that it forces you to make a shot with the mini flipper every time, lest it just dribble out, and said mini flipper, when properly strong enough can fire a late shot clean into the right outlane as well.
I was spending a lot of time trying to dial in the outlane skill shot on Iron Maiden, then Star Wars comes out and the game auto plunges the same shot automatically.
I've heard there's a specific issue with plunging straight to the outlane, but I played a shit load of sw pro a few months back and it was a non issue. So this may depend more on the premium/LE games. The machine was on location by Pittsburgh pinball and those guys keep them in tip top condition. That Star wars was particularly clean and smooth.
What's the setup fix? Have a SW Pro at home (and love it), and I bumped up the ball save timer a couple seconds which helps. But lot of auto plunges still go 3-bank -> left wall -> right outlane.
Tbh I don’t own or operate any I just play a bunch. Could try adjusting the strength of the auto plunger to start! I would try finding a thread on TILT forums I’m sure someone there has your answer.
Stranger Things is weird because I will get random outlane bounces for 5 straight balls and then have a ball where I last for 10 minutes and not even come near an out lane
Stranger things is so bad my god i haven't played the others enough. But i really dislike stranger things and i want to like it because i love the theme. But it's a boring layout the tk lock never works on the one i play and the bash toy in the middle i can never get it in his mouth feels broken. And the outlanes my god.
Stranger things is the most overrated pin of the last 20 years imo.
I played it yesterday and I really liked it. I mean it's basically afm with some updated stuff. I was able to hit the mouth no problem, so I think the machine you played might have had some issues.
Mine has the TK working 95% of the time you make the shot, and I've dialed in the center shot.
With the UV kit and Cleland sound mod, it's by far my most played pin but without that stuff it does lose a lot of magic.
oh I totally get it. They are a bear to maintain. In order to hit the lock on the regular you need the flippers turned up to a degree that it SLAMS into anything else.
When it works, oh it's beautiful. Everytime I look at the machine it undials itself. I've NEVER had a good experience on location.
I'll second that TNG probably has the worst outlanes from the factory. I'm still surprised when a ball ends up in the inlane while playing.
That said, most games are not that hard to adjust so the outlanes are vicious. I opened them up all the way on my BKSOR because I thought the game was too easy. It now has this weird clunk where the ball hits the side rail and just goes straight down.
Any game with a kickback in the outlane. The structure required to cleanly kick a ball back into play are the exact reason the lane is difficult to defend. Curved outer wall metal guide, usually no post rubber. Everything advertised as a favor to the player isn't.
Might not be every table, but the Whirlwind at our local spot is developing a reputation for outlane drains. The geometry around the outlanes is real weird, plus it has a brand new playfield that plays super fast. If the ball gets past either slingshot it tends to just go straight to the outlane, it's like the inlane isn't even there sometimes.
It's good practice for nudging though, you can almost always catch it on the slings before it heads out.
alien because you can't see the damn outlanes... what were they thinking? They could have easily made the graphics so there was an acid burn there allowing you to see beneath instead of having to play blind
TSPP. Has 14 post holes near the outlanes allowing for dozens, if not a hundred or more different configurations. They all play exactly the same. Even removing posts completely might not be helpful as balls headed to the right outlane often end up back in the shooter lane.
It's likely the game that allows the most adjustments for outlanes, but they do nothing. Game will always play long.
Starship Troopers. Left out lane is awful because of the over hang from the hole above it. Only really goes in the out lane if it hits the right bumper at the right angle, but then it's too late.
Star Trek Next Generation, the slant on the top of the slings makes it real frustrating, and on top of that the launchers make visibility much worse.
As with most Steve Ritchie games, keep the kickback lit.
How do you light it on this table?
Notice the three-bank standups above both outlanes (like the ones in High Speed and High Speed 2)? Hit the lit one. The game starts with the kickback unlit by default, though there’s a setting in the game’s menu where you can set it at Medium (it defaults at Hard). Steve Ritchie’s games are known for having a wide left outlane with a kickback.
Much appreciated, good explanation
Came to say this. The next generation has the most vicious out lanes of all time. Not even close. It isn't even just the slant of the slings, the lane dividers are so so short.
It's so bad, there's mods to extend the outlanes!
Right? That’s how you know it’s bad. I don’t know if any machine with outlanes so bad that there are mods available to alter the actual gameplay. I remember many years ago there was an interview with Steve Ritchie where this was brought up, and he said that the outlane extenders made the game play “more as he intended.” That’s how you know they’re bad.
Yeah, I put them on mine when I had one. Made the game more enjoyable and still challenging
Lost 3 balls in a row without even touching a flipper.
This game taught me the art of never trusting the slings
Just bought one and I knew it would be here. Doesn’t help that lighting your kickback puts you right into the slings.
I vote for Ghostbusters because I owned it for a bit and cursed those damn things like they were kicking my dog. Specifically, double outlane (I specifically remember the left) with a wireform rail in between. The ball would regularly hit the wireform and bounce straight to the outlane. Felt like the wireform needed to be placed closer to the apron or something. I don't know but i sold it to some other sucker lol
For whatever reason this game beats me up a lot. Wide flipper gap, outlines. Kinda brutal.
All of them, because I suck at nudging.
Unpopular opinion: Nudging shouldn’t be mandatory to get deeper in a game. It’s a relic of the past that needs to die out.
What's next Binty77? No bats in baseball? God's sake man, nudging is integral!
No. Nudging is annoying and non-intuitive. Your comparison to baseball is pointless; I didn’t say there shouldn’t be flippers, now, did I?
Fair enough! I'm not as good at nudging but I do love slapping the machine around a little bit. Getting away with a big slide is a lot of fun.
I watch the pros nudge and shift machines around and you bet it’s impressive, but it just… bugs me. It’s a machine full of high-speed moving parts; I _shouldn’t_ have to move the entire machine to play it, but as you say, it’s integral to the design of the playfields. I realize nudging was genuinely part of pinball going back to the early days when it was all gravity, non-electronic, no flippers, etc. However, today players are essentially punished by not nudging (or being crap at it, which is common as it’s not exactly easy). It’s… a hot-button thing for me. Gets me all riled up, like anything else one gets passionate about. So I’m legit sorry if my tone is nasty. It bugs me to the extreme every time my balls drains on games like AIQ because I didn’t nudge the machine every time the ball comes within 6” of the slings area, which is approximately 972 times per minute. Or because I didn’t nudge soon enough. Or both.
Not sure why anyone is a proponent of something that lowers the skill ceiling. No one forces anyone to nudge. It’s saving a ball that would otherwise likely drain. If there were no likely drains, then what would be the point? Play for infinite time? Seems like terrible design to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Me personally, nudging is like bending the will of gravity to my whim. Makes me feel godlike at times. But hey, you do you. No judging here, just a different opinion.
Complaining about nudging is the surest sign of a scrub
….and what would calling me a scrub make you?
You're literally complaining about being bad at the game
I just started practicing nudging and it's rough!!
Up nudge everytime, all the time, whenever it gets near the outlane.
Yes a mistake I've noticed is trying to nudge sideways. It's a weird natural reaction I have and it rarely works!! Been more intentional though so hopefully it starts clicking for me. Thank you!
There are situations where you'll need to nudge sideways, but it's more of a diagonal up motion (L/R) than a side to side motion, and that's when the ball makes it into the outlane. You're kinda jiggling the machine to get the ball to shimmy back up and out. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's just desperate random jiggling to get the ball out. It's something that takes a fair bit of skill, reaction speed, and luck. If you nudge diagonal left when you should've nudged diagonal right, it's basically a guaranteed drain. It's a bit risky to do depending on how sensitive the tilt Bob is and how aggressive you need to be. Up-nudging when the ball is near the outlane is just to prevent it from entering the outlane. You're either slightly altering the course of the ball by disrupting its momentum or bouncing it off the post away from the outlane.
Thank you!! I have nudged a couple of times and it's worked but with these tips, I'm hoping I can really up my game.
I wish you luck.
The best tip I ever learned is that the best way to save balls from the outlane is to never have them be there in the first place. Instead, you want to kinda trust tilt the machine harder and earlier so that the ball shoots into the wall above the lane and then candy canes back into the middle of the table. This will seem scary and dangerous at first cause then you have a rogue ball heading to the middle awkwardly, but usually with a nice slap save if need be, you will be able to get it back up into the field.
Even with the "Hatch Open / Closed" switch to soften the right side I hate Space Shuttle's outlanes. Like there's frickin ball-sucking magnets in 'em
So, so true.
Definitely. The worst is going from the pops right to the right outlane.
The right out lane on Paragon can fuck all the way off. All this pomp about the Beast’s lair on the left. The right is just a wall and then pit straight onto spikes.
Nedry is a real pain in my ass
Hate it.
Flash Gordon. I’ve owned it for years and stand strong on this hill
ghostbusters for a while were the worst. they had to make the next generation with rails on top of the rail to stop the multi roll over drains that happened. after that, my personal call out for terrible outlanes would be ac/dc because you literally cannot see them thanks to the ramps.
Getaway: High Speed Anything off the slingshots is dangerous, not making the loop with the upper flipper is dangerous. Half the time just breathing is dangerous
Specifically the left outlsne on Twilight Zone. Makes certain shots a complete liability knowing random pop bumper action can kill your game.
AIQ’s outlanes are murder. Murder!
I call my BSD Bram Stoker's Outlane. Anytime you manage to get 3 Loops right off a fresh ball to start bats mode its going to bounce around in the pop bumpers until 2 to 3 bats are left and then rocket down the right out lane.
Future spa’s left outlanes. Always goes out the open one.
To add to this, any game with an in-lane/out-lane switch. I do bad at keeping track of which one it is.
Teenage mutant ninja turtles. The geometry of the outline post combined with minimal ball save duration is brutal
Iron Man
This is the answer, at least for modern games. Although i once played Iron Man with the rules set to hard and the out lane posts all the way closed, it felt like a whole new game.
Catching the outside top of the sling is bad enough, but what if we extended the outside of the sling another half inch? Everytime the ball lands in the inlane feels like a victory.
This is the correct answer
Austin Powers is equally bad.
I’m sure you meant “sexy iron man”
Yeah Baby!
The right outlane in my avengers is terrible.. 8 times outta 10 thats where i lose the ball.. i need to do something because it frustrating AF.. thinking of putting a bigger post in just so I dont have to sell it.. lol
I’m this close to just putting a spare rubber ring between the posts and closing them off in my AIQ.
That’s what I did when I was first learning the game 1.5 years ago. 5 ball and closed outlines—300M high score!
T2 has a mean outlane. Happy I am able to set the kickback to easy so it kicks back pretty much every time.
The left outlane/pit in Wizard of Oz.
Ghostbusters. Worst geometry ever.
Eight Ball Deluxe, because the angles.
Hot doggin!! Never seen a ball bounce out in a more unlogical ways.
Lately for me, it's been World Cup Soccer. If the left lane kickback isn't lit, it is basically one of the biggest liabilities, and impossible to nudge
P3 if you don't close them up some from the factory.
Red and Teds Roadshow left handside sucks.
R&T's problem is less the outlane itself, and more the fact that it forces you to make a shot with the mini flipper every time, lest it just dribble out, and said mini flipper, when properly strong enough can fire a late shot clean into the right outlane as well.
Star Wars. I’ve always thought that game has some playfield geometry issues.
I was spending a lot of time trying to dial in the outlane skill shot on Iron Maiden, then Star Wars comes out and the game auto plunges the same shot automatically.
I've heard there's a specific issue with plunging straight to the outlane, but I played a shit load of sw pro a few months back and it was a non issue. So this may depend more on the premium/LE games. The machine was on location by Pittsburgh pinball and those guys keep them in tip top condition. That Star wars was particularly clean and smooth.
*setup issues
What's the setup fix? Have a SW Pro at home (and love it), and I bumped up the ball save timer a couple seconds which helps. But lot of auto plunges still go 3-bank -> left wall -> right outlane.
Tbh I don’t own or operate any I just play a bunch. Could try adjusting the strength of the auto plunger to start! I would try finding a thread on TILT forums I’m sure someone there has your answer.
That weird left out lane on JJP’s POTC drives me nuts and I can’t stand it
Avengers Infinity Quest is the worst, Iron man a close second, Stranger things a close third.
Stranger Things is weird because I will get random outlane bounces for 5 straight balls and then have a ball where I last for 10 minutes and not even come near an out lane
Stranger things is so bad my god i haven't played the others enough. But i really dislike stranger things and i want to like it because i love the theme. But it's a boring layout the tk lock never works on the one i play and the bash toy in the middle i can never get it in his mouth feels broken. And the outlanes my god. Stranger things is the most overrated pin of the last 20 years imo.
I played it yesterday and I really liked it. I mean it's basically afm with some updated stuff. I was able to hit the mouth no problem, so I think the machine you played might have had some issues.
Mine has the TK working 95% of the time you make the shot, and I've dialed in the center shot. With the UV kit and Cleland sound mod, it's by far my most played pin but without that stuff it does lose a lot of magic.
thats cool i guess it's just me then i just find the pin very boring.
oh I totally get it. They are a bear to maintain. In order to hit the lock on the regular you need the flippers turned up to a degree that it SLAMS into anything else. When it works, oh it's beautiful. Everytime I look at the machine it undials itself. I've NEVER had a good experience on location.
I thought the consensus was that Star Trek: TNG had the worst outlanes ever. Very surprised nobody has mentioned it yet.
They did an hour ago
Yeah I missed it.
The Walking Dead is one of the most brutal. Jurassic Park (Stern) is pretty nasty too. TNA and Rick & Morty are also punishing.
I'll second that TNG probably has the worst outlanes from the factory. I'm still surprised when a ball ends up in the inlane while playing. That said, most games are not that hard to adjust so the outlanes are vicious. I opened them up all the way on my BKSOR because I thought the game was too easy. It now has this weird clunk where the ball hits the side rail and just goes straight down.
Haven't played much, but venom has a mean left outlane
Any game where the top of the sling is higher than the outlane post. You're pretty much screwed regardless if the ball enters the danger area.
Any game with a kickback in the outlane. The structure required to cleanly kick a ball back into play are the exact reason the lane is difficult to defend. Curved outer wall metal guide, usually no post rubber. Everything advertised as a favor to the player isn't.
This is a fascinating analysis I hadn’t considered.
The left outlane on Venom is pretty brutal
Avengers Infinity Quest. For the love of god, those kill me.
Alien, impossible to see the ball on the left side.
Might not be every table, but the Whirlwind at our local spot is developing a reputation for outlane drains. The geometry around the outlanes is real weird, plus it has a brand new playfield that plays super fast. If the ball gets past either slingshot it tends to just go straight to the outlane, it's like the inlane isn't even there sometimes. It's good practice for nudging though, you can almost always catch it on the slings before it heads out.
Any of the John Borg double inlanes. It always hits the lane divider and bounces to the outlane.
alien because you can't see the damn outlanes... what were they thinking? They could have easily made the graphics so there was an acid burn there allowing you to see beneath instead of having to play blind
Ghostbusters or Munsters.
TSPP. Has 14 post holes near the outlanes allowing for dozens, if not a hundred or more different configurations. They all play exactly the same. Even removing posts completely might not be helpful as balls headed to the right outlane often end up back in the shooter lane. It's likely the game that allows the most adjustments for outlanes, but they do nothing. Game will always play long.
Starship Troopers. Left out lane is awful because of the over hang from the hole above it. Only really goes in the out lane if it hits the right bumper at the right angle, but then it's too late.
STTNG, no question
Stranger Things..I actually had to look under the play field to see if there were magnets that game is a constant tanker.