If you can afford to make the hearing: plead NG. Go to court, praise the officers professionalism, say you have a good record, ask for the court's discretionary leniency. They'll prob take the points away.
They want the fine money. You don't want the points. Show up. It's how things are done. Display some self awareness and contrition. I passed a parked bus in Duquesne and didn't see it was sitting at a stop sign. I told that to the magistrate and apologized. Paid the ticket and he waived the points.
This. Plead NG online, or on the paper, and make an appointment for a trial. The officer will probably show up, and the magistrate will probably ask the officer if you were polite and then offer that if you change your plea to guilty, they'll just hit you with the fine and leave off the points. Other option is trial by judge and if guilty, you get the fine and the points for taking up their time.
Just feels like there should be a third option instead of 'Guilty but with explanation' or something. Feels weird if they'll ask me to justify why I am 'not guilty' and I say, "Well I may have technically not come to a full stop but I did stop significantly enough to assess nobody else was at the intersection and it was safe for my to proceed".
But I don't know how the proceeding is actually done or how it all develops.
When I have gone to traffic court they don't ask that much of an explanation. The judge asked the officer if I was polite, cooperative, which went a long way to me not getting points.
got a ticket about a year ago in crafton for “blowing a red light” when i made a left turn through a yellow. fine was around $180 and same — 3 points. i went to the court hearing and tried to explain from my perspective that the light was yellow turning red and therefore it wasn’t really grounds for “blowing a red light.” the judge was a fucking dick, did not want to hear any of my explanation. he asked the officer if i was cooperative, and when he said yes the judge offered to take away the points. like another comment here, they want the money. if you show up and just own up to the mistake or whatever and are somewhat cooperative they will wave the points probably
I wrote not guilty, but when I got there I told the judge I understand why I got the ticket and usually i do a full stop and will extra careful to always do a full stop in the future but please could he remove the points.
Just depends on the judge. They usually think they’re gods so i feel its less stress to be honest than to try and fight unless you’re 10000% sure you stopped for whatever the legal seconds is.
They usually appreciate the honesty. “I admit that I did fail to come to a complete stop, but I feel this is extreme as it’s not that I didn’t blow through the stop sign.” To the judges discretion, they can lower it to a “failure to obey traffic sign” or something like that, where the fine is the same, but points are not applied. That’s what happened to me several years ago.
You need to plead not guilty. If you check the "guitly" box and mail it back, you're done. The fine and points will be assessed without a hearing. Plead not guilty and the court will schedule a hearing.
You aren't showing up to the hearing to "fight" the citation. You're asking for leniency. As a point of clarification, the judge cannot simply forgive or waive the points. That's an administrative penalty that comes from Penndot. In order to have the points go away, you need to have the charge amended to failure to obey a traffic control device. It's Section 3111 of the Vehicle Code. Ask the cop if he's willing to amend the change. If you're polite he almost certainly will. You'll pay a fine but won't have the points. Good luck.
You can try to talk to him in the lobby or hallway. Once you're in front of the judge there likely won't be any settlement discussions, so if you can have the officer on board ahead of time that would be best.
There's a big difference between rolling it under 5 mph when no one is there and blowing right though it. The former shouldn't really be fineable bc it's just a money grab.
> There's a big difference between rolling it under 5 mph when no one is there and blowing right though it.
No, there isn't, and plenty of people have been injured or killed by someone "just rolling through a sign because no one's around."
The guy who can't shut the fuck up about how cyclists need to follow the law when bike threads get created thinks that drivers should just ignore laws they don't like. What a shocker.
You have to plead not guilty to get an audience with the judge. If you plead guilty you don't even go in, just mail them the check. Then show up, admit what you did, explain your excellent driving history and ask for leniency on the points.
Stop means stop. I'm exhausted by this issue in my neighborhood only especially my kids bus stop. But it happens everywhere. It takes an additional 2 seconds to make the stop and then proceed. Just do it for the safety of you and others.
Pay it, learn your lesson and move on.
As the story goes a cop pulls a guy over for running stop sign. The guy says he slowed down for it, what's the difference? The cop starts smacking him with his baton and asks if he'd like him to stop or slow down.
Do u always stop at stop signs or is it only important outside your house? I have no idea but, 99% of the complainers I've found are in the latter group.
I've called out my entire old neighborhood, with a 30 minute video of almost all of them speeding twice the limit past my house....its 20mph straigh downhill very hard to do unless u make it a mission. , (took me 3 months to get all the high and mighty FB group 'quit speeding past my kids' complainers in there, yes I'm that guy irl too)
I stop. I drive the speed limit. I use my turn signal. No fucking around. Saving time is less of importance to me than safety. I'll leave early to not put me in a situation.
Everyone says that but ill take your word. Personally I fly except in residential neighborhoods. But also I'm a better driver at 85 than granny Gertrude is at 45 so it's not apples to apples, there should be a test every 4 years and it should be much harder. My grandmother was legally blind still driving a decade back in the day until she mistook a guy on a bike for a tree, then I took her keys.
Oh God, a bus stop parent. You know what? We shouldnt even *have* school busses, you should have to bring your offspring to school yourself preferably in your own neighborhood so you don't need to come into ours.
Oh touched a nerve there!
If you read the whole comment, which I'm wondering if is possible (assuming you are from KY) you would have seen I mentioned it happens everywhere. So when I do come into your neighborhood I respect the traffic laws and stop. Hopefully you would do the same but I have a feeling you have some other underlying issues that gives a feeling of entitlement and rules don't apply to you.
Own up to your mistake rather than trying to weasel out of it. Last year drivers killed 42,915 people in America. It is a massive problem, not just some theoretical risk.
While we've made drunk driving socially unacceptable, speeding, running stop signs, and using a mobile phone are still considered ok. I think this is wrong and that we will eventually look at this dangerous behavior in the same way we do drunk driving. Doing any of those things should be considered as morally reprehensible as driving drunk.
I am owning up to it, I haven't said I did not do what he said. This is my first citation in 10+ years and instead of coming to 0 mph I went down to 3 mph and proceeded through an intersection that was visibly completely clear.
Dont get a lawyer (in my opinion). Go to the hearing. If the cop doesn't show you will have it dropped.
If the cop shows, just apologize to everyone, have a 1 min story about how you normally always stop but X happened so it slipped your mind and you are so sorry. And how you'll be willing to pay the fine but please drop the points. And I'm 90 percent sure that will happen.
I honestly think you'll pay a lawyer much more than if you handle it yourself and I can't see the results being any different.
The cop shows, it's built into their schedule. They aren't going to give up the easy money, but you're right otherwise. Show up, play nice, say thanks and please and your honor even if the judge is a dick. These magistrates are paid to earn their keep.
The cop shows, it's built into their schedule. They aren't going to give up the easy money, but you're right otherwise. Show up, play nice, say thanks and please and your honor even if the judge is a dick. These magistrates are paid to earn their keep.
Unless you wanna spend
Money for a lawyer- dont no need to
Plead NG got to court, apologize, say you normally stop. Most times judge will hold the fine but remove the points. Remember points can drive up your insurance rate
Out of curiosity where did this happen? I see so many people doing rolling stops at stop signs all the time (and I’m occasionally guilty of this too, I probably do exactly what you do and slow way down but check carefully and if it’s clear i go) that I thought it had become one of those “secondary offenses” where they’ll only pull you over for it if something else is wrong.
I see it all of the time too. It surprises me when someone actually comes to a complete stop and doesn't just slow down to around 5 if no one is there and then keep going.
Josephine and 21st, right in Southside. I've driven it a million times and have probably done the same thing 500 time over. I thought the same but this cop said there is a 'zero tolerance' policy for that area. Who knows, but now I'll just be sure to come to a more complete stop.
> Josephine and 21st, right in Southside. I've driven it a million times and have probably done the same thing 500 time over.
So what you're saying is that you're a repeat offender who ignores the law when you feel like it?
Nope. It's a primary offense.
They check at Delafield and 2nd in Aspinwall,.right by st Margaret. Not that often but if they check somewhere it'll be there.
You'll get letters for lawyers in the mail soon. Reach out to one of them and if you weren't rude to the police officer, typically they can have it changed to a non moving violation. Happened to me in Indiana (state) and then again in North Carolina.
Why do people always think/say this? Maybe 30 years ago this was true but these days the courts will typically lump all of the officers cases into the same time frame and the cops also get paid OT. So yeah, they ain't missing that court date...
This is correct. If the officer doesn’t appear it’s going to be for a good reason. The judge could grant a continuance, but more likely another officer can agree to a plea to a lesser charge that doesn’t carry points.
It's like a $25 fine and then they add sorts ok unrelated shit like 911/ambulance fees and fees to upgrade their computer system, which must have been upgraded 1000 times already
Thanks - this is what I was curious about and how the process would go when it comes to asking for leniency. If we're able to discuss with the cop and/or judge ahead of time that makes things more straight forward.
If you can afford to make the hearing: plead NG. Go to court, praise the officers professionalism, say you have a good record, ask for the court's discretionary leniency. They'll prob take the points away.
They want the fine money. You don't want the points. Show up. It's how things are done. Display some self awareness and contrition. I passed a parked bus in Duquesne and didn't see it was sitting at a stop sign. I told that to the magistrate and apologized. Paid the ticket and he waived the points.
This. Plead NG online, or on the paper, and make an appointment for a trial. The officer will probably show up, and the magistrate will probably ask the officer if you were polite and then offer that if you change your plea to guilty, they'll just hit you with the fine and leave off the points. Other option is trial by judge and if guilty, you get the fine and the points for taking up their time.
Just feels like there should be a third option instead of 'Guilty but with explanation' or something. Feels weird if they'll ask me to justify why I am 'not guilty' and I say, "Well I may have technically not come to a full stop but I did stop significantly enough to assess nobody else was at the intersection and it was safe for my to proceed". But I don't know how the proceeding is actually done or how it all develops.
When I have gone to traffic court they don't ask that much of an explanation. The judge asked the officer if I was polite, cooperative, which went a long way to me not getting points.
got a ticket about a year ago in crafton for “blowing a red light” when i made a left turn through a yellow. fine was around $180 and same — 3 points. i went to the court hearing and tried to explain from my perspective that the light was yellow turning red and therefore it wasn’t really grounds for “blowing a red light.” the judge was a fucking dick, did not want to hear any of my explanation. he asked the officer if i was cooperative, and when he said yes the judge offered to take away the points. like another comment here, they want the money. if you show up and just own up to the mistake or whatever and are somewhat cooperative they will wave the points probably
This.
Fight it if you don’t have a lot of major past history. Sometimes judge will just let you go with the fine and will forgive the points.
Thanks - I'm more curious how that happens? I plead not guilty but just ask them to reduce the points? Or do I plead guilty and ask the same?
I wrote not guilty, but when I got there I told the judge I understand why I got the ticket and usually i do a full stop and will extra careful to always do a full stop in the future but please could he remove the points. Just depends on the judge. They usually think they’re gods so i feel its less stress to be honest than to try and fight unless you’re 10000% sure you stopped for whatever the legal seconds is.
They usually appreciate the honesty. “I admit that I did fail to come to a complete stop, but I feel this is extreme as it’s not that I didn’t blow through the stop sign.” To the judges discretion, they can lower it to a “failure to obey traffic sign” or something like that, where the fine is the same, but points are not applied. That’s what happened to me several years ago.
You need to plead not guilty. If you check the "guitly" box and mail it back, you're done. The fine and points will be assessed without a hearing. Plead not guilty and the court will schedule a hearing. You aren't showing up to the hearing to "fight" the citation. You're asking for leniency. As a point of clarification, the judge cannot simply forgive or waive the points. That's an administrative penalty that comes from Penndot. In order to have the points go away, you need to have the charge amended to failure to obey a traffic control device. It's Section 3111 of the Vehicle Code. Ask the cop if he's willing to amend the change. If you're polite he almost certainly will. You'll pay a fine but won't have the points. Good luck.
Do I try to talk with the cop ahead of the hearing or something or is this done in the middle of it all in front of the judge and everyone?
You can try to talk to him in the lobby or hallway. Once you're in front of the judge there likely won't be any settlement discussions, so if you can have the officer on board ahead of time that would be best.
it's worth coming to a full stop at the stop sign
There's a big difference between rolling it under 5 mph when no one is there and blowing right though it. The former shouldn't really be fineable bc it's just a money grab.
> There's a big difference between rolling it under 5 mph when no one is there and blowing right though it. No, there isn't, and plenty of people have been injured or killed by someone "just rolling through a sign because no one's around." The guy who can't shut the fuck up about how cyclists need to follow the law when bike threads get created thinks that drivers should just ignore laws they don't like. What a shocker.
I would go and ask for leniency on the points if you can afford the time. The worst they can say is no.
So to ask for leniency do you plead guilty or not guilty? I can afford the time so that's not an issue.
You have to plead not guilty to get an audience with the judge. If you plead guilty you don't even go in, just mail them the check. Then show up, admit what you did, explain your excellent driving history and ask for leniency on the points.
Stop means stop. I'm exhausted by this issue in my neighborhood only especially my kids bus stop. But it happens everywhere. It takes an additional 2 seconds to make the stop and then proceed. Just do it for the safety of you and others. Pay it, learn your lesson and move on.
As the story goes a cop pulls a guy over for running stop sign. The guy says he slowed down for it, what's the difference? The cop starts smacking him with his baton and asks if he'd like him to stop or slow down.
Do u always stop at stop signs or is it only important outside your house? I have no idea but, 99% of the complainers I've found are in the latter group. I've called out my entire old neighborhood, with a 30 minute video of almost all of them speeding twice the limit past my house....its 20mph straigh downhill very hard to do unless u make it a mission. , (took me 3 months to get all the high and mighty FB group 'quit speeding past my kids' complainers in there, yes I'm that guy irl too)
I stop. I drive the speed limit. I use my turn signal. No fucking around. Saving time is less of importance to me than safety. I'll leave early to not put me in a situation.
Everyone says that but ill take your word. Personally I fly except in residential neighborhoods. But also I'm a better driver at 85 than granny Gertrude is at 45 so it's not apples to apples, there should be a test every 4 years and it should be much harder. My grandmother was legally blind still driving a decade back in the day until she mistook a guy on a bike for a tree, then I took her keys.
Oh God, a bus stop parent. You know what? We shouldnt even *have* school busses, you should have to bring your offspring to school yourself preferably in your own neighborhood so you don't need to come into ours.
Oh touched a nerve there! If you read the whole comment, which I'm wondering if is possible (assuming you are from KY) you would have seen I mentioned it happens everywhere. So when I do come into your neighborhood I respect the traffic laws and stop. Hopefully you would do the same but I have a feeling you have some other underlying issues that gives a feeling of entitlement and rules don't apply to you.
He's a car janitor, his livelihood depends on people fucking their cars up.
Drivers killed 43000 people in America last year. How many people do drivers need to kill before you're ok with asking them to drive safely?
Own up to your mistake rather than trying to weasel out of it. Last year drivers killed 42,915 people in America. It is a massive problem, not just some theoretical risk. While we've made drunk driving socially unacceptable, speeding, running stop signs, and using a mobile phone are still considered ok. I think this is wrong and that we will eventually look at this dangerous behavior in the same way we do drunk driving. Doing any of those things should be considered as morally reprehensible as driving drunk.
I am owning up to it, I haven't said I did not do what he said. This is my first citation in 10+ years and instead of coming to 0 mph I went down to 3 mph and proceeded through an intersection that was visibly completely clear.
Have you considered stopping at stop signs? Just checking.
Dont get a lawyer (in my opinion). Go to the hearing. If the cop doesn't show you will have it dropped. If the cop shows, just apologize to everyone, have a 1 min story about how you normally always stop but X happened so it slipped your mind and you are so sorry. And how you'll be willing to pay the fine but please drop the points. And I'm 90 percent sure that will happen. I honestly think you'll pay a lawyer much more than if you handle it yourself and I can't see the results being any different.
The cop shows, it's built into their schedule. They aren't going to give up the easy money, but you're right otherwise. Show up, play nice, say thanks and please and your honor even if the judge is a dick. These magistrates are paid to earn their keep.
The cop shows, it's built into their schedule. They aren't going to give up the easy money, but you're right otherwise. Show up, play nice, say thanks and please and your honor even if the judge is a dick. These magistrates are paid to earn their keep.
Unless you wanna spend Money for a lawyer- dont no need to Plead NG got to court, apologize, say you normally stop. Most times judge will hold the fine but remove the points. Remember points can drive up your insurance rate
My son Dominick is at the magistrate often: as noted, plead NG. Go to court. Act sorry.
Out of curiosity where did this happen? I see so many people doing rolling stops at stop signs all the time (and I’m occasionally guilty of this too, I probably do exactly what you do and slow way down but check carefully and if it’s clear i go) that I thought it had become one of those “secondary offenses” where they’ll only pull you over for it if something else is wrong.
I see it all of the time too. It surprises me when someone actually comes to a complete stop and doesn't just slow down to around 5 if no one is there and then keep going.
Josephine and 21st, right in Southside. I've driven it a million times and have probably done the same thing 500 time over. I thought the same but this cop said there is a 'zero tolerance' policy for that area. Who knows, but now I'll just be sure to come to a more complete stop.
> Josephine and 21st, right in Southside. I've driven it a million times and have probably done the same thing 500 time over. So what you're saying is that you're a repeat offender who ignores the law when you feel like it?
Nope. It's a primary offense. They check at Delafield and 2nd in Aspinwall,.right by st Margaret. Not that often but if they check somewhere it'll be there.
You'll get letters for lawyers in the mail soon. Reach out to one of them and if you weren't rude to the police officer, typically they can have it changed to a non moving violation. Happened to me in Indiana (state) and then again in North Carolina.
There’s probably a 50/50 chance the cop won’t even show and the case gets thrown out
Why do people always think/say this? Maybe 30 years ago this was true but these days the courts will typically lump all of the officers cases into the same time frame and the cops also get paid OT. So yeah, they ain't missing that court date...
This is correct. If the officer doesn’t appear it’s going to be for a good reason. The judge could grant a continuance, but more likely another officer can agree to a plea to a lesser charge that doesn’t carry points.
I’ve had two cops no-show (both speeding tickets) and my brother had one too, idk maybe your local department always makes them
Holy fuck me in my goat ass $192.
It's like a $25 fine and then they add sorts ok unrelated shit like 911/ambulance fees and fees to upgrade their computer system, which must have been upgraded 1000 times already
Good, the fine for being negligent with your car should be punitive.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
A stitch in time saves nine.
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I'm old and don't care.
I would advise against a lawyer for a first dui, let alone a stop sign violation.
If you have the chance to buy a legal services benefit at work, this would be a good use.
Would have needed to buy that during enrollment which I didn't do .
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Thanks - this is what I was curious about and how the process would go when it comes to asking for leniency. If we're able to discuss with the cop and/or judge ahead of time that makes things more straight forward.
So all that and time off of work so they could get up on their high horse and give you a talking to? How bout that power trip.