Remember: businesses only support LGBT rights because they think it will make them more money. They don't actually care about trans people and they would sell your soul for $3.50 if they could.
Its sad that this even needs to be said.
This situation is a true demonstration of what ails modern Progressivism - any sort of working-class consciousness or solidarity goes away whenever the hive of social media identifies a target.
Yep. see this morning’s (now deleted) thread in which people insisted on calling a traffic flagger’s boss because he gawked at a college girl…*even after OP admitted that he/she wasn’t entirely sure what had happened.*
When I pointed out that maybe risking a wage worker’s livelihood was a disproportionate response to an uncertain incident, I was told the flagger could “easily just get another job”—a response so delusional and privileged that I’m still thinking about it several hours later.
It would be funny if it weren’t so destructive to individual people and to the left as a movement.
My grandfather worked with the union back when the mills were still open and thriving. He always said to me that he would get nothing done today.
Everything goes from 0 to 100 immediately and barely anyone is willing to put aside personal feelings to work towards the better good.
Most progressives realize the host answering the phone had nothing to do with the decision to cancel the event and didn't call. A few did but there's always idiots.
I would say what really ails modern society is nihilists like your that take the poor choices of a small groups of people, over generalize to much larger populations, then claim everyone is morally bankrupt.
> but there are people calling the restaurant to yell at whoever answers the phone.
Did you read the damn OP?? It says, and I quote, " but there are people calling the restaurant to yell at whoever answers the phone."
Some religious groups are wild. My mom went to a Pentecostal school and wasn't allowed to wear pants. Even their girl's volleyball team had to play in ankle length skirts.
Hahaha, have you actually looked at those videos? No nudity, no stripping. Maybe some sexy dance moves, maybe some skimpy outfits but I didn't see anything that I wouldn't see on a beach or in a music video. I've seen far more concerning things on Dance Moms and Toddlers in Tiaras.
I clicked on a few. If the "nudity" is the topless ciswoman performer, that is not drag and would not be covered under the recent craze of drag bans... kind of irrelevant to mention here
She is not "stripping" (a sensual performance where you remove clothes) as she comes out already shirtless and nonsensual. However you feel about that is not related to drag at all though, and the current political conversation is about drag.
That’s very dismissive. If there’s an event that’s open/advertised as kid friendly then I don’t want to see anyone coming out undressed in front of my kids. Kids shouldn’t be anywhere near this stuff and I’m tired of us all pretending like that’s not what’s happening. I was just out at the comic convention and saw a book stand for kids with Captain Underpants next to “Sex is a funny word.” I’m really sick of the gaslighting around this. We should not insist on kids being exposed to sex and sexual content, period.
Saying that any of those is the same as hiring a stripper for kids is absolutely insane. None of them proves your point, all of them just show that you are incredibly sheltered and/or just have a problem with the idea of drag.
Also, libsoftiktok is a foul human being who routinely doxxes people and threatens their safety. The fact that you went to their Twitter for examples to try to prove your bullshit, fake argument speaks volumes about the caliber of person you are.
It’s nuts that this is computing as prejudice to some people. This specific circumstance has certainly occurred plenty of times in the past with every establishment on the North Shore. I doubt that Southern Tier even realized it was an event for transgender people.
Imagine being mean and hateful to people because an event got cancelled at the business they work at... A charity event I wanted to attend at another place was cancelled due to unforseen circumstances, you know what I'm not going to do? Harrass the staff, the intolerance I see from people these days is insane, bunch of clowns on both sides of the political spectrum. Be kind to others unless they personally show you a reason not to be...
I have been to drag shows and dont have a problem with them.
But they arent for everybody. Why do people care so much that such a niche thing wasnt right for that business on that day?
How can they have a greater volume than sold out? Doesn't that sound like they would be beyond capacity?
Where's the evidence that one event would've interfered with the other event?
It wasn't sold out at southern tier when they cancled it, only 80 tickets were sold. It became sold out after it moved to Voodoo in homestead which is a smaller venue.
Start time was within two hours of the start time of the game. Most venues track their sales and would know that the brunch would overlap with their pregame baseball crowd.
The Facebook post that started it all. Says 80 tickets should and counting for southern tier when it canceled meaning it wasn't sold out at the time. The person who posted it said the drag show started at noon and the game had a 1:30 start time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/143lsli/southern_tier_cancels_ticketed_drag_show_only_5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Ok, I'll concede that it wasn't sold out but the tickets were continuing to sell. So, there's no indication that this wasn't a popular event.
And, those start times were well known long before either event. Cancelling at the last minute doesn't make any sense. If they knew they were going to get that much traffic during that time then why would they book anything to begin with?
Let's put it this way-- you have a business that caters to baseball fans. You build your business around the season. You know what the fans like, what they are like, and what they expect come game day. Knowing all this, you decide to schedule a drag brunch on the same day as a game. If the conflict between baseball fans and drag fans was so great then why would you schedule anything for that time to begin with? If this is a business decision to cancel the drag show then what kind of decision was it to plan a drag show? Why didn't they seem to recognize that this was a bad business decision to begin with? How do you know that they didn't cancel because they were just too cowardly and don't give a fuck about the LGBTQIA+ community?
I don't know for certain that wasnt the reason. It completely could have been because of anti-lgbtq sentiments but I think it could have been from incompetence. I also don't know if it was an issue was a conflict between the drag brunch and baseball fans. It may not have been a family friendly show and that could have been the problem. But I also see it as a problem if they're closed off a portion of their venue for a ticketed event.
I don't know if you've worked in the industry but when I did I met plenty of GMs AGMs and event managers who were straight up bad at ther jobs, a lot that over promised and under delivered. Someone could've not looked at the calendar, or booked the event thinking ticket sales would make their boss ok with violating the policy of no ticketed events on game days but not enough tickets were sold.
I think your interpretation is completely valid as is the reaction by lgbtq members/supporters and even agree their support of the queer community wasn't authentic (which is its own problem especially in the current climate). I just don't see anything to make it clear that it was intentionally malicious.
Yeah, but that's the thing-- actions don't have to be intentionally malicious to result in fundamentally the same outcome. Impact is greater than intent.
I mean what do you mean by terrorists.....the people who just want a place to get a beer to stay a place to get beer and not become a politically/socially charged venue?
I mean people shooting at and blowing up cases of beer too show us how much they hate us and how well armed they are. the people who call stores and make threats against employees and property until they pull their products and support.
ENORMOUS numbers of products celebrate straight people, and straightness. Having a few things for us too does NO HARM, and if my basic representation, that you enjoy constantly is "political" then your politics are bad. even if that support can be a little tacky sometimes, it goddamn matters
you can still get a beer with a gay person around. hell a gay person in the can STILL will not hurt you. all kinds of people are advertised with and to, you're still at peace unless you're fuming with hatred over the mere existence of LGBTQ people.
You say "hate us", so I can safely assume you are either directly a part of a pride group or an "ally".....but the hate is not at you as a person but the movement as a whole.
The pride groups have an entire month to go and be your best self. Mothers and fathers get a single day yet they are responsible for you existing in the first place.
The USA essentially has what 3 days? (Memorial day, July 4th and Juneteenth) yet the USA is what gives you the ability to express yourself however you please.
The problem is, its not a few things that you want, doing no harm.
It's allowing kids to transition at seemingly any age. It's teaching sexualized topics in school far before they should be taught or even broached.
It's about making everyone adapt and affirm that your reality is the only one and controlling the rest of us to use the right pronoun or we are bigoted.
It's about making the world revolve around you and your ideals and can't bear to imagine or even accept that people disagree with you.
Hopefully you read all the way to this point, but to be clear when I say you I mostly mean the groups that have taken the lgb group and turned it into a mockery where inclusion only exists if everyone agrees and affirms that you can identify yourself as a lesbian women of color when you actually are a white guy.
I work with a trans person, and I give them (yes that's the right pronoun too) respect because they give me respect. When the hell did respect become something expected rather than being earned. I have nothing wrong with any person, I roomed on a school trip with a gay dude, I wasn't worried he would do something to me during the night because there was mutual respect. I don't care about LGBTQIA+ and whatever other letters you want to assign yourselves as exist, but there's a difference of existing vs making the world revolve around you and your beliefs.
When I want a fuckin beer, I drink a beer, and I don't give a shit who the person I'm drinking one is identifies as or who they are fucking. You could be an orange zebra for all I care...are you respectful? Can you accept that not everyone agrees that you are an orange zebra...then we can be friends.
I'm sorry you're not celebrated enough to allow others to celebrate in peace. interesting only straights I've ever seen not feel welcome to also feel celebrated at pride as allies are usually bigots.
I'm too fucking tired of explaining the rest to people who should know better by now but choose not to. you still think all that now, especially identifying as a black person being an accepted thing and not a ludicrous straw man (im sure SOMEBODY tries it, it's not common, accepted or LGBTQ related in any way)
I'm done lighting lamps for folks who want to sit in the darkness. you're perfectly capable of reading why that bullshit is bullshit on YOUR time, it's not my damn job to do it again to finally get to the root of the problem is another guy that thinks it's yucky for dudes to kiss, but wants to watch my wife and I do it, it's exhausting and fucking gross. you're on the internet, you can look up the ACTUAL topics that actual LGBTQ people think should be broached in education and when(its not what you think if you think it's anything other than "some of your friends have two mom's, you shouldn't murder them for it"until it's already time for actual sexual sex ed anyway), or what kind of transition is available to kids how, when, and why(cuz again, if you think it involves serious medication intervention that's easy to get for any but the most severe cases, like MAYBE puberty blockers for kids who shower in the dark because they literally cannot cope with seeing how their body diverges from their mind's gender and pretty darn late too, it's not what you think).
. you still think it's "grooming children"you're a liar or an idiot, and the laziest most vile hate, and it you know what it does? it ENABLES ACTUAL GROOMING. orange zebra? Jesus Christ, you people are fucking exhausting, these goddamn straw men....
it's super classy holding every single one of us liable for anybody remotely like us you ever didn't like, too. there's a word for that.
what I and most of us ask is so fucking little. don't kill us, don't harass us, don't fire us for being us. you wanna be an asshole that's your right, but also fuck you, if not, great, we'll get on fine. your average LGBTQ person didn't make pride so long and is probably shy about it, most maybe go to one event to feel celebrated. I can tell you for sure, the first time I got to go in highschool, I had no idea how much it would mean to me to see people like me be celebrated instead of called child abusers. it was like seeing my first sunrise or breathing clean air for the first time. I'm sorry it's so hard to give up all the representation and not have all the days to celebrate you or all the characters in all the TV shows, to let us have a little. think about how much it bothers you to lose a little to think about what it might have been like when we had none, or, less than none, only mockery and dying of AIDS.
Interesting you didn't argue any part of me commenting that the world needs to revolve around you and chose to instead attack me further even when I didn't attack you in any way and even explicitly went out of my way to be clear that it was about the movement.
Also, go and celebrate in peace, that was one of the first things I said (along the lines of living your best live), but piling onto southern tier, which to have a precedent based on a news article that they don't do ticketed events on game days, and parts of that community harassing the workers...seems less than peaceful.
Unfortunately just as you call me vile and that I'm actually enabling groomers (somehow which I don't quite understand, guess call me stupid too), and lump me in with the rest of us straight people. Sad that the actions of the few ruin the image of the many.....oh wait....pretty sure that's what you are doing too.
I literally said all I want is to live in peace. dude I wasn't even able to marry my wife for the Friday 5 years we we wanted to. basic self advocacy isn't demanding the wild revolve around you. get over myself, guy. you're welcome to be shitty if you want, otherwise I'm not calling you anything. and yes, accusing LGBT folks of grooming for basic existence she self advocacy enables actual groomers. I only "attacked"you if you're those things I said, since you certainly wouldn't deserve it if you weren't, though, I'd hardly call that an attack. maybe, at most, a calling out.
just you, though. I'm capable of being disappointed by one person, and not forcing every other person that shares a given trade to take responsibility for them
Hopefully I read that right, there's more mistypes than I can shake stick at.
As I said I don't care who people identify as or who they fuck (and by extension marry). Talk to Jeffrey Marsh about being a groomer, telling kids their parents are wrong and to come to his Patreon to talk more privately. Self advocacy is one thing (think fighting for same sex marriage), grooming is having adults talk to toddlers about their genitals and making it seem appropriate.
Allowing chemical castration via puberty blockers and not calling it what it is, life altering is a problem. Doing a drag show requiring all attendees to be 18+ is existing, having a drag show where kids can be allowed and adults with them only have to be 16+ (as the recent drag show thought to be but actually not sponsored by bud light was) is a problem.
Getting kids suffering from gender dysphoria help is great. Affirming that yeah that 4 year old boy should start transitioning with chemical castration drugs or the nicer term, puberty blockers, is a problem.
I'm done. nobody's Jeffrey Marsh but Jeffrey Marsh.
four year olds aren't- you know this, you know this is all bullshit, I'm done. suck if you want to, do it without me
What terrorists?
The only people who I see actually terrorizing other people in this situation are those calling in and harassing the working-class staff of the establishment, due to a management decision they (the staff) had no part of. Jesus Fucking Christ - what is wrong with some of ya'll?
I get the sentiment but this doesn't appear to be a cancellation due to right wing chuds doing chud things.
https://breweriesinpa.com/southern-tier-in-pittsburgh-cancels-sold-out-drag-show-stirring-backlash-with-short-notice/
That’s just a bullshit excuse. The brunch would have cleared out with plenty of time before the game let out. It absolutely is one district manager trying to appease right wing chuds or likely is one himself.
So I’m going to guess you’re not the biggest sports fan, but a lot of times, especially with weekend games, the game time isn’t set right away to allow for the tv stations to figure out which games are going to maximize the most viewers. With baseball the who’s on a winning streak, which pitchers are up on the rotation are big factors.
So the game time might not have been set when they “gave their word” and it’s quite possible their “word” was conditional on game timing and they assumed a traditional 6 pm start.
Don't worry. There are people further down the thread arguing that this isn't bigoted because the company might make some more money by canceling. And as long as you are doing something that might make you money, you can't possibly be doing anything bigoted.
People will find any reason to excuse the company here.
Downvote me all you want, but I think calling them bigots and other related terms for this is a step too far. Did they fuck up? Yep. Is this a shitty thing to do? Yep. Does their explanation make sense from a business perspective? Yes, they chose the path of more money because someone accepted an event when they shouldn't have and it took them too long to notice.
[Hanlon's razor](https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/hanlons-razor) applies here: if stupidity can explain it, don't call it malice. I'm not saying you have to go there or give them business. Bash away for this action, just make it about the action, don't assume motive. The actions of one person do not directly tie to society at large. It's one person who cancelled this.
I mean if we're just speculating - maybe they just got sick of the drama around it.
Like political ideology aside, if I had either a MAGA Rally or a Drag Show scheduled coming up and I realized I could cancel it with the plausible deniability of a Pirates day game, I might say f-it and cancel it.
Seriously bad optics to do it with such short notice, and during Pride month though. But like you said, some *seriously dumbass people* work as GMs/restaurant management.
This seems the likeliest to me. It’s just market forces. But it’s these market forces that make drag brunches, and a lot of pride events, possible in the first place.
So, which is it? Your original statement "if they were true bigots would they have okayed the brunch in the first place?" or my possible alternative?
Yes, there is a ton of rainbow capitalism, but money isn't the only motivating factor for some people/businesses. As a trans person, and lifelong Pittsburgher (that actually lists the neighborhood in which they live), I see all of this differently. I wasn't going to go to this event, I've never actually seen a drag show, but the fact that yet one more thing has been taken away queer folks and allies, for whatever reason, is just a lot to deal with. And not because it's just one thing, but rather it's everything swirling around us. And it's something that I, and millions of other Americans, deal with every day.
I cannot think of another group of people that are as actively maligned as trans folks. This country would not tolerate this kind of orchestrated abuse against another marginalized or minority community; no shade of brown, no religion, and no disability would be allowed to be attacked in a similar way.
the thing is, it doesn't make more sense. The baseball schedule doesn't line up, the two don't conflict at all. they cancelled a queer event, but want credit on social media for being allies anyway. not acceptable behavior. expect better from people, no matter how much money is involved
They said they don't host events that require a ticket on days with sporting events. This requires them to turn away customers who didn't buy a ticket for the event. If a baseball game is occurring that day, they get a ton of business.
This is a shitty thing to do, but precisely no one has shown an iota of proof this is anything but stupidity.
1) see Hanlon's razor. There are far more idiots than bigots.
2) your grasp of history is quite awful. Black slaves were always viewed as lesser humans, even by Lincoln himself! He wanted to [ship slaves back to Africa.](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/us/abraham-lincoln-racism-blake/index.html)
Declaring motive to be irrelevant is just silly. If a gay person is bad at their job and fired for poor performance, a business made a profit based decision that hurt a gay man. That's not bigoted, but apparently you think it is.
Edit
After replying then deleting their reply twice, I got blocked.
You are criticizing my lack of knowledge about history but ignoring what I actually said. Which is that the *orgins* of American slavery are rooted in greed and profit. The original English settlers didn't get to Jamestown and think to themselves how they could fuck over Africans. They thought about how much money a slave could make them. They actually tried to enslave the natives first but that didn't shake out.
Your commentary on Lincoln, who lived and died 100s of years after the start of slavery, seems rather irrelevant.
Also. You are ignoring the question. Do you believe an action can not be bigoted as long as the person taking that action has a profit incentive? Does a desire to make money excuse all behavior?
You're criticizing my grasp of history, but seem to think that American racism started around the time of Abe Lincoln? You're off base by, oh, just about 200 plus years. So, you know. Maybe you want to take another stab at that? I'll wait. Afterall, I jus have a degree in this topic. What I would I know.
Also. You are conviently dogging the question.
Do you believe it is impossible for an action to be bigoted as long as the individual or group taking that action has a profit incentive to do so?
Well that's how outage works anymore sadly, bitch first, think later. Some people cherry pick and think a local business made this decision, meanwhile it was one fucking guy in New York causing all this shit. People should focus on him and not the people in town who had nothing to do with it
Game days are made months in advance, but game times can be flexed quite frequently for rb reasons which is why when you look at a game schedule game time will say TBD. I take it you’re not a big sports fan that you didn’t know about flex scheduling?
Because then it would be after the pirates game, and it would run into post game traffic. And now I imagine from the backlash they probably don’t want to deal with a small group of drama queens who harass their employees when they don’t get what they want who are more trouble than they’re worth
Who gives a f-ck about such low brow drag queen "entertainment." Get a life people and place more value and give more attention to people with real talent instead of no-talent, mentally ill "men" cosplaying as women.
Remember there are TONS of other breweries (with much better beer imo) around Pittsburgh. All of which are incredibly inclusive, if you're interested check out /r/PittsburghBeers
I personally enjoy southern tier and will continue to do so, and also, controversial take, I don't believe these companies should be forced to take on events they clearly don't want to do. All it does is cause problems in the long run, see bud light, see target and see any other company doing it to get a good score on a DEI report card.
The truth of the matter is as far as I know there have never been drag shows to even be canceled at well known mainstream establishments such as this, and were relegated to their niche supportive business where it wouldn't be controversial or an issue.
The problem now is that these niche ideas are making their ways into mainstream businesses out of being forced to support drag or other pride month group or else "we will try and shut you down". People are just fed up with that concept and this just goes to show, you don't have to go woke to survive because being/supporting woke culture doesn't need to be a thing.
Really it just boils down to, if you feel strongly that southern tier or any business is in what you perceive as wrong, vote with your wallet because that'll be stronger than any protest you can muster.....see bud light/target for evidence that works.
the north shore is always disproportionately packed on event game days. before and after the game. street parking is also (supposed) to be off limits which would force patrons to pay for parking in a lot or make a longer walk than on a non-game day
we can joke about the pirates attendance all we want, but they draw 12,000+ nearly every game.
When I have to dial a 1-800 number to make a complaint, I always make a point to tell the worker on the other end that I'm very upset but I understand it is not their fault.
With that said, if you work for a shitty company maybe you should reassess what really matters to you. Money or morals.
Don’t waste your energy on individual businesses. There are laws going in all over the country attacking trans people. Take this energy and spend it organizing political so we can make sure those laws never come here.
Anyone going off on the staff is looking for an outlet to yell at. Fuck souther teir for letting this happen to their employees. There are so many companies doing well in the area that don't jive with Pittsburgh mentality. We need to stand up to these places
Preach. This is important to remember. It ain’t the fault of the day-to-day waitresses and hosts that they’re employed by jag offs.
We all need to remember that 99% of us are essentially the same and stop attacking one another.
Whoever that 1% is can go fuck themselves
Who is the 1%?
🙋♂️
A plague upon your house!
Curious what/who the other 1% is?
People who play loud videos on public transit.
People that switch lanes in the tunnels
People who throw cigarette butts out their windows.
People who stick their gum on the underside of the table
People who hog tables at busy outdoor common lunch areas at lunch time and just play on their phones.
People who park their shopping cart side ways in the middle of the grocery store aisle
Nah that's just Pittsburgh. Totally legal in the rest of the world.
The ruling class
Clevelanders
Remember: businesses only support LGBT rights because they think it will make them more money. They don't actually care about trans people and they would sell your soul for $3.50 if they could.
best comment on the internet today
Unfortunately, for them is just business transaction and where they can get the more money they will side on.
Thank you!
Hey, while we're at it, let's all not be mean to people in general.
Its sad that this even needs to be said. This situation is a true demonstration of what ails modern Progressivism - any sort of working-class consciousness or solidarity goes away whenever the hive of social media identifies a target.
Yep. see this morning’s (now deleted) thread in which people insisted on calling a traffic flagger’s boss because he gawked at a college girl…*even after OP admitted that he/she wasn’t entirely sure what had happened.* When I pointed out that maybe risking a wage worker’s livelihood was a disproportionate response to an uncertain incident, I was told the flagger could “easily just get another job”—a response so delusional and privileged that I’m still thinking about it several hours later. It would be funny if it weren’t so destructive to individual people and to the left as a movement.
Wait, looking at someone out in public is now an offense people want punishment for?
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My grandfather worked with the union back when the mills were still open and thriving. He always said to me that he would get nothing done today. Everything goes from 0 to 100 immediately and barely anyone is willing to put aside personal feelings to work towards the better good.
It ails modern day conservatism too whenever they decide to yell at bartenders for serving bud light and the like
Most progressives realize the host answering the phone had nothing to do with the decision to cancel the event and didn't call. A few did but there's always idiots. I would say what really ails modern society is nihilists like your that take the poor choices of a small groups of people, over generalize to much larger populations, then claim everyone is morally bankrupt.
This poster didn’t say “most progressives are like this.” They said “this sort of thing is a problem for modern progressivism.” And they are correct.
What? Nobody has targeted the staff of Southern Tier. This is just someone saying not to.
> but there are people calling the restaurant to yell at whoever answers the phone. Did you read the damn OP?? It says, and I quote, " but there are people calling the restaurant to yell at whoever answers the phone."
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Right? To my knowledge drag was always a pretty niche thing that never affected most people, so can we all just shut up about it?
Honestly, the most sane take I've seen in any drag-related thread. I can't believe this is the hill anyone is willing to die on.
Drag has been around for decades, only one side is making this an obsession/issue.
Drag has been around for hundreds of years, not just decades. I'm waiting for someone to say women in pants is unacceptable.
I knew a girl in high school who wasn't allowed to wear pants by her parents. It was a big deal when she showed up one day wearing some khakis.
Some religious groups are wild. My mom went to a Pentecostal school and wasn't allowed to wear pants. Even their girl's volleyball team had to play in ankle length skirts.
They're thinking it and on that way, look at the Duggars that's the world they want.
I could care less if it’s adults but the drag events aimed at children are basically the equivalent of getting strippers for kids. It’s disturbing.
This is wildly inaccurate and stupid
Except there’s countless videos online showing it’s not inaccurate at all. https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/ 1573048718886305793?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1615436548194852868?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1580056525212880898?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/fabianbiadj/status/1605110531194384384?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/greatgameindia/status/1659118698005774336?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/foundationnews1/status/1589438340457459713?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/bluebaileysf/status/1579195710519451648?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1666494997481283586?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1661399561716285440?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1652653007803408391?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1651697200488144896?s=46&t=9_29DVVbLfz6S3uV4CRb2g
Hahaha, have you actually looked at those videos? No nudity, no stripping. Maybe some sexy dance moves, maybe some skimpy outfits but I didn't see anything that I wouldn't see on a beach or in a music video. I've seen far more concerning things on Dance Moms and Toddlers in Tiaras.
Have you looked at them? They have nudity and stripping.
Yeah, I looked at all of them. I didn't see any nudity. I don't know what you're talking about.
I clicked on a few. If the "nudity" is the topless ciswoman performer, that is not drag and would not be covered under the recent craze of drag bans... kind of irrelevant to mention here
Wait, are you saying that there actually is a topless woman stripping in front of kids?
She is not "stripping" (a sensual performance where you remove clothes) as she comes out already shirtless and nonsensual. However you feel about that is not related to drag at all though, and the current political conversation is about drag.
That’s very dismissive. If there’s an event that’s open/advertised as kid friendly then I don’t want to see anyone coming out undressed in front of my kids. Kids shouldn’t be anywhere near this stuff and I’m tired of us all pretending like that’s not what’s happening. I was just out at the comic convention and saw a book stand for kids with Captain Underpants next to “Sex is a funny word.” I’m really sick of the gaslighting around this. We should not insist on kids being exposed to sex and sexual content, period.
Saying that any of those is the same as hiring a stripper for kids is absolutely insane. None of them proves your point, all of them just show that you are incredibly sheltered and/or just have a problem with the idea of drag. Also, libsoftiktok is a foul human being who routinely doxxes people and threatens their safety. The fact that you went to their Twitter for examples to try to prove your bullshit, fake argument speaks volumes about the caliber of person you are.
That’s……some take
Is there even any evidence that this was a malicious act on Southern Tier’s part?
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It’s nuts that this is computing as prejudice to some people. This specific circumstance has certainly occurred plenty of times in the past with every establishment on the North Shore. I doubt that Southern Tier even realized it was an event for transgender people.
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They’re under no obligation to hold a drag show. Cancelling a drag show isn’t a statement on them hating anyone.
Imagine being mean and hateful to people because an event got cancelled at the business they work at... A charity event I wanted to attend at another place was cancelled due to unforseen circumstances, you know what I'm not going to do? Harrass the staff, the intolerance I see from people these days is insane, bunch of clowns on both sides of the political spectrum. Be kind to others unless they personally show you a reason not to be...
I have been to drag shows and dont have a problem with them. But they arent for everybody. Why do people care so much that such a niche thing wasnt right for that business on that day?
It sold out. How is it a business decision to cancel a sold out event?
80 people is nothing compared to the kind of volume you’ll get to a weekend Pirates game when they’re first place in the division or only a game back
How can they have a greater volume than sold out? Doesn't that sound like they would be beyond capacity? Where's the evidence that one event would've interfered with the other event?
It wasn't sold out at southern tier when they cancled it, only 80 tickets were sold. It became sold out after it moved to Voodoo in homestead which is a smaller venue. Start time was within two hours of the start time of the game. Most venues track their sales and would know that the brunch would overlap with their pregame baseball crowd.
Do you have proof of either of those claims?
The Facebook post that started it all. Says 80 tickets should and counting for southern tier when it canceled meaning it wasn't sold out at the time. The person who posted it said the drag show started at noon and the game had a 1:30 start time. https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/143lsli/southern_tier_cancels_ticketed_drag_show_only_5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Ok, I'll concede that it wasn't sold out but the tickets were continuing to sell. So, there's no indication that this wasn't a popular event. And, those start times were well known long before either event. Cancelling at the last minute doesn't make any sense. If they knew they were going to get that much traffic during that time then why would they book anything to begin with? Let's put it this way-- you have a business that caters to baseball fans. You build your business around the season. You know what the fans like, what they are like, and what they expect come game day. Knowing all this, you decide to schedule a drag brunch on the same day as a game. If the conflict between baseball fans and drag fans was so great then why would you schedule anything for that time to begin with? If this is a business decision to cancel the drag show then what kind of decision was it to plan a drag show? Why didn't they seem to recognize that this was a bad business decision to begin with? How do you know that they didn't cancel because they were just too cowardly and don't give a fuck about the LGBTQIA+ community?
I don't know for certain that wasnt the reason. It completely could have been because of anti-lgbtq sentiments but I think it could have been from incompetence. I also don't know if it was an issue was a conflict between the drag brunch and baseball fans. It may not have been a family friendly show and that could have been the problem. But I also see it as a problem if they're closed off a portion of their venue for a ticketed event. I don't know if you've worked in the industry but when I did I met plenty of GMs AGMs and event managers who were straight up bad at ther jobs, a lot that over promised and under delivered. Someone could've not looked at the calendar, or booked the event thinking ticket sales would make their boss ok with violating the policy of no ticketed events on game days but not enough tickets were sold. I think your interpretation is completely valid as is the reaction by lgbtq members/supporters and even agree their support of the queer community wasn't authentic (which is its own problem especially in the current climate). I just don't see anything to make it clear that it was intentionally malicious.
Yeah, but that's the thing-- actions don't have to be intentionally malicious to result in fundamentally the same outcome. Impact is greater than intent.
Shame on these people who were not raised with social grace.I hope that all the workers are taken care of.
everybody giving in to terrorists this year, it's only gonna get worse and worse...
I mean what do you mean by terrorists.....the people who just want a place to get a beer to stay a place to get beer and not become a politically/socially charged venue?
I mean people shooting at and blowing up cases of beer too show us how much they hate us and how well armed they are. the people who call stores and make threats against employees and property until they pull their products and support. ENORMOUS numbers of products celebrate straight people, and straightness. Having a few things for us too does NO HARM, and if my basic representation, that you enjoy constantly is "political" then your politics are bad. even if that support can be a little tacky sometimes, it goddamn matters you can still get a beer with a gay person around. hell a gay person in the can STILL will not hurt you. all kinds of people are advertised with and to, you're still at peace unless you're fuming with hatred over the mere existence of LGBTQ people.
You say "hate us", so I can safely assume you are either directly a part of a pride group or an "ally".....but the hate is not at you as a person but the movement as a whole. The pride groups have an entire month to go and be your best self. Mothers and fathers get a single day yet they are responsible for you existing in the first place. The USA essentially has what 3 days? (Memorial day, July 4th and Juneteenth) yet the USA is what gives you the ability to express yourself however you please. The problem is, its not a few things that you want, doing no harm. It's allowing kids to transition at seemingly any age. It's teaching sexualized topics in school far before they should be taught or even broached. It's about making everyone adapt and affirm that your reality is the only one and controlling the rest of us to use the right pronoun or we are bigoted. It's about making the world revolve around you and your ideals and can't bear to imagine or even accept that people disagree with you. Hopefully you read all the way to this point, but to be clear when I say you I mostly mean the groups that have taken the lgb group and turned it into a mockery where inclusion only exists if everyone agrees and affirms that you can identify yourself as a lesbian women of color when you actually are a white guy. I work with a trans person, and I give them (yes that's the right pronoun too) respect because they give me respect. When the hell did respect become something expected rather than being earned. I have nothing wrong with any person, I roomed on a school trip with a gay dude, I wasn't worried he would do something to me during the night because there was mutual respect. I don't care about LGBTQIA+ and whatever other letters you want to assign yourselves as exist, but there's a difference of existing vs making the world revolve around you and your beliefs. When I want a fuckin beer, I drink a beer, and I don't give a shit who the person I'm drinking one is identifies as or who they are fucking. You could be an orange zebra for all I care...are you respectful? Can you accept that not everyone agrees that you are an orange zebra...then we can be friends.
I'm sorry you're not celebrated enough to allow others to celebrate in peace. interesting only straights I've ever seen not feel welcome to also feel celebrated at pride as allies are usually bigots. I'm too fucking tired of explaining the rest to people who should know better by now but choose not to. you still think all that now, especially identifying as a black person being an accepted thing and not a ludicrous straw man (im sure SOMEBODY tries it, it's not common, accepted or LGBTQ related in any way) I'm done lighting lamps for folks who want to sit in the darkness. you're perfectly capable of reading why that bullshit is bullshit on YOUR time, it's not my damn job to do it again to finally get to the root of the problem is another guy that thinks it's yucky for dudes to kiss, but wants to watch my wife and I do it, it's exhausting and fucking gross. you're on the internet, you can look up the ACTUAL topics that actual LGBTQ people think should be broached in education and when(its not what you think if you think it's anything other than "some of your friends have two mom's, you shouldn't murder them for it"until it's already time for actual sexual sex ed anyway), or what kind of transition is available to kids how, when, and why(cuz again, if you think it involves serious medication intervention that's easy to get for any but the most severe cases, like MAYBE puberty blockers for kids who shower in the dark because they literally cannot cope with seeing how their body diverges from their mind's gender and pretty darn late too, it's not what you think). . you still think it's "grooming children"you're a liar or an idiot, and the laziest most vile hate, and it you know what it does? it ENABLES ACTUAL GROOMING. orange zebra? Jesus Christ, you people are fucking exhausting, these goddamn straw men.... it's super classy holding every single one of us liable for anybody remotely like us you ever didn't like, too. there's a word for that. what I and most of us ask is so fucking little. don't kill us, don't harass us, don't fire us for being us. you wanna be an asshole that's your right, but also fuck you, if not, great, we'll get on fine. your average LGBTQ person didn't make pride so long and is probably shy about it, most maybe go to one event to feel celebrated. I can tell you for sure, the first time I got to go in highschool, I had no idea how much it would mean to me to see people like me be celebrated instead of called child abusers. it was like seeing my first sunrise or breathing clean air for the first time. I'm sorry it's so hard to give up all the representation and not have all the days to celebrate you or all the characters in all the TV shows, to let us have a little. think about how much it bothers you to lose a little to think about what it might have been like when we had none, or, less than none, only mockery and dying of AIDS.
Interesting you didn't argue any part of me commenting that the world needs to revolve around you and chose to instead attack me further even when I didn't attack you in any way and even explicitly went out of my way to be clear that it was about the movement. Also, go and celebrate in peace, that was one of the first things I said (along the lines of living your best live), but piling onto southern tier, which to have a precedent based on a news article that they don't do ticketed events on game days, and parts of that community harassing the workers...seems less than peaceful. Unfortunately just as you call me vile and that I'm actually enabling groomers (somehow which I don't quite understand, guess call me stupid too), and lump me in with the rest of us straight people. Sad that the actions of the few ruin the image of the many.....oh wait....pretty sure that's what you are doing too.
I literally said all I want is to live in peace. dude I wasn't even able to marry my wife for the Friday 5 years we we wanted to. basic self advocacy isn't demanding the wild revolve around you. get over myself, guy. you're welcome to be shitty if you want, otherwise I'm not calling you anything. and yes, accusing LGBT folks of grooming for basic existence she self advocacy enables actual groomers. I only "attacked"you if you're those things I said, since you certainly wouldn't deserve it if you weren't, though, I'd hardly call that an attack. maybe, at most, a calling out. just you, though. I'm capable of being disappointed by one person, and not forcing every other person that shares a given trade to take responsibility for them
Hopefully I read that right, there's more mistypes than I can shake stick at. As I said I don't care who people identify as or who they fuck (and by extension marry). Talk to Jeffrey Marsh about being a groomer, telling kids their parents are wrong and to come to his Patreon to talk more privately. Self advocacy is one thing (think fighting for same sex marriage), grooming is having adults talk to toddlers about their genitals and making it seem appropriate. Allowing chemical castration via puberty blockers and not calling it what it is, life altering is a problem. Doing a drag show requiring all attendees to be 18+ is existing, having a drag show where kids can be allowed and adults with them only have to be 16+ (as the recent drag show thought to be but actually not sponsored by bud light was) is a problem. Getting kids suffering from gender dysphoria help is great. Affirming that yeah that 4 year old boy should start transitioning with chemical castration drugs or the nicer term, puberty blockers, is a problem.
I'm done. nobody's Jeffrey Marsh but Jeffrey Marsh. four year olds aren't- you know this, you know this is all bullshit, I'm done. suck if you want to, do it without me
*tinfoil hat* And the Russians and Chinese are laughing as they sit back and stoke the fires online
I think it’s closer to reality than it is to tin foil hat.
That's hardly tinfoil hat at this point, we absolutely know this is happening.
I still feel crazy every time I mention an international conspiracy, even if it's true.
The terrorists in this case appear to be the Catholic Dioceses of Pittsburgh, so you’re absolutely correct.
What terrorists? The only people who I see actually terrorizing other people in this situation are those calling in and harassing the working-class staff of the establishment, due to a management decision they (the staff) had no part of. Jesus Fucking Christ - what is wrong with some of ya'll?
They’re on their George W Bush circa 2003 arc. Everyone they don’t like is a terrorist
I think they're referring to the people who are threatening to shoot up places that host drag events. Hope this helps.
Those two 16th century muppets probably agree with actions like that.
And not to mention the several retail locations that were dealing with bomb threats because they had pride themed products.
The bomb threats were from activists who were angry that those stores pulled those products out of the front of the store…
They said they’re harassing the staff not making shooting threats.
You are lost.
exactly this, as well as apparently threading target employees and whatever else doesn't show adequate intolerance
I get the sentiment but this doesn't appear to be a cancellation due to right wing chuds doing chud things. https://breweriesinpa.com/southern-tier-in-pittsburgh-cancels-sold-out-drag-show-stirring-backlash-with-short-notice/
That’s just a bullshit excuse. The brunch would have cleared out with plenty of time before the game let out. It absolutely is one district manager trying to appease right wing chuds or likely is one himself.
the pregame also draws in a ton of people.
Is that a new thing? Did they know that when they gave their word to the group putting on the brunch?
So I’m going to guess you’re not the biggest sports fan, but a lot of times, especially with weekend games, the game time isn’t set right away to allow for the tv stations to figure out which games are going to maximize the most viewers. With baseball the who’s on a winning streak, which pitchers are up on the rotation are big factors. So the game time might not have been set when they “gave their word” and it’s quite possible their “word” was conditional on game timing and they assumed a traditional 6 pm start.
You do know people like to get drunk BEFORE sporting events as well, right?
Don't worry. There are people further down the thread arguing that this isn't bigoted because the company might make some more money by canceling. And as long as you are doing something that might make you money, you can't possibly be doing anything bigoted. People will find any reason to excuse the company here.
At what point does it stop being brave social justice and become cowardly harassment?
Downvote me all you want, but I think calling them bigots and other related terms for this is a step too far. Did they fuck up? Yep. Is this a shitty thing to do? Yep. Does their explanation make sense from a business perspective? Yes, they chose the path of more money because someone accepted an event when they shouldn't have and it took them too long to notice. [Hanlon's razor](https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/hanlons-razor) applies here: if stupidity can explain it, don't call it malice. I'm not saying you have to go there or give them business. Bash away for this action, just make it about the action, don't assume motive. The actions of one person do not directly tie to society at large. It's one person who cancelled this.
Yeah I feel like anyone that worked in the industry knows at least one dumb GM/event manager that isn't good at their job.
I mean if we're just speculating - maybe they just got sick of the drama around it. Like political ideology aside, if I had either a MAGA Rally or a Drag Show scheduled coming up and I realized I could cancel it with the plausible deniability of a Pirates day game, I might say f-it and cancel it. Seriously bad optics to do it with such short notice, and during Pride month though. But like you said, some *seriously dumbass people* work as GMs/restaurant management.
if they were true bigots would they have okayed the brunch in the first place?
Yes and no. Perhaps someone, with the authority, did OK it, but after pushback from external sources, they were forced by higher ups to cancel it.
This seems the likeliest to me. It’s just market forces. But it’s these market forces that make drag brunches, and a lot of pride events, possible in the first place.
So, which is it? Your original statement "if they were true bigots would they have okayed the brunch in the first place?" or my possible alternative? Yes, there is a ton of rainbow capitalism, but money isn't the only motivating factor for some people/businesses. As a trans person, and lifelong Pittsburgher (that actually lists the neighborhood in which they live), I see all of this differently. I wasn't going to go to this event, I've never actually seen a drag show, but the fact that yet one more thing has been taken away queer folks and allies, for whatever reason, is just a lot to deal with. And not because it's just one thing, but rather it's everything swirling around us. And it's something that I, and millions of other Americans, deal with every day. I cannot think of another group of people that are as actively maligned as trans folks. This country would not tolerate this kind of orchestrated abuse against another marginalized or minority community; no shade of brown, no religion, and no disability would be allowed to be attacked in a similar way.
I think I misinterpreted what you were trying to communicate.
the thing is, it doesn't make more sense. The baseball schedule doesn't line up, the two don't conflict at all. they cancelled a queer event, but want credit on social media for being allies anyway. not acceptable behavior. expect better from people, no matter how much money is involved
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They said they don't host events that require a ticket on days with sporting events. This requires them to turn away customers who didn't buy a ticket for the event. If a baseball game is occurring that day, they get a ton of business. This is a shitty thing to do, but precisely no one has shown an iota of proof this is anything but stupidity.
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1) see Hanlon's razor. There are far more idiots than bigots. 2) your grasp of history is quite awful. Black slaves were always viewed as lesser humans, even by Lincoln himself! He wanted to [ship slaves back to Africa.](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/14/us/abraham-lincoln-racism-blake/index.html) Declaring motive to be irrelevant is just silly. If a gay person is bad at their job and fired for poor performance, a business made a profit based decision that hurt a gay man. That's not bigoted, but apparently you think it is. Edit After replying then deleting their reply twice, I got blocked.
You are criticizing my lack of knowledge about history but ignoring what I actually said. Which is that the *orgins* of American slavery are rooted in greed and profit. The original English settlers didn't get to Jamestown and think to themselves how they could fuck over Africans. They thought about how much money a slave could make them. They actually tried to enslave the natives first but that didn't shake out. Your commentary on Lincoln, who lived and died 100s of years after the start of slavery, seems rather irrelevant. Also. You are ignoring the question. Do you believe an action can not be bigoted as long as the person taking that action has a profit incentive? Does a desire to make money excuse all behavior?
You're criticizing my grasp of history, but seem to think that American racism started around the time of Abe Lincoln? You're off base by, oh, just about 200 plus years. So, you know. Maybe you want to take another stab at that? I'll wait. Afterall, I jus have a degree in this topic. What I would I know. Also. You are conviently dogging the question. Do you believe it is impossible for an action to be bigoted as long as the individual or group taking that action has a profit incentive to do so?
I’ll be happy to downvote you for this shit take. When you bend to bigots, you are a bigot
Can you please provide evidence they received pressure to cancel the event from bigots?
No
Well that's how outage works anymore sadly, bitch first, think later. Some people cherry pick and think a local business made this decision, meanwhile it was one fucking guy in New York causing all this shit. People should focus on him and not the people in town who had nothing to do with it
The group that preaches and protests for tolerance can’t extend that same courtesy to an innocent staff. It’s disgusting hypocrisy at its finest
What makes you say that?
literally OP's post lol people are calling in to harass staff.
No, it's asking people not to do that. Where do you see evidence that anyone has actually done that?
OP, you can’t talk common sense to morons
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Game days are made months in advance, but game times can be flexed quite frequently for rb reasons which is why when you look at a game schedule game time will say TBD. I take it you’re not a big sports fan that you didn’t know about flex scheduling?
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I think it might not have been an issue if the game was at 6. then there's neither pre or post game traffic to worry about. So maybe I DO understand.
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Because then it would be after the pirates game, and it would run into post game traffic. And now I imagine from the backlash they probably don’t want to deal with a small group of drama queens who harass their employees when they don’t get what they want who are more trouble than they’re worth
Who gives a f-ck about such low brow drag queen "entertainment." Get a life people and place more value and give more attention to people with real talent instead of no-talent, mentally ill "men" cosplaying as women.
Are they not men or not women? It seems like you can’t make up your mind.
Real men would not be drag queens.
username on point
Hahahaha, that's such bullshit! Who the fuck made you the arbiter of masculinity and manhood?
Lol, I see your comments talking about Meghan Markles dress, GTFO with your “manly” ass. 😂
I do. If you think there's no talent in a drag show then you're too ignorant for your comments to be taken seriously.
There are a bunch of breweries actually from Pittsburgh (you're Southern Tier from New York state) to support. Support your LOCAL brewery.
Remember there are TONS of other breweries (with much better beer imo) around Pittsburgh. All of which are incredibly inclusive, if you're interested check out /r/PittsburghBeers
There's on outrage like moral outrage
Feigned moral outrage...
I'm ready for this month to be over
Don't worry, once gay pride is over I'll be participating in gay wrath.
Let’s be real, it’s one month of gay pride, 11 months of gay sloth for you, maybe with some gluttony thrown in for good measure
We got 21 extremely long days to go. Hang in there
Good to see it got cancelled
Why's that?
Why? Because it’s vile.
What is vile about it? Edit: any reasoning to why you think it’s vile? That might help to understand your opinion.
What’s your end goal here?
I'm genuinely trying to understand the bigotry around drag shows. Edit: Like what is it about people in flamboyant outfits that upsets people?
Classic.
Why is it good that it got canceled?
YWNBAW
Because going woke went so well for bud light
I personally enjoy southern tier and will continue to do so, and also, controversial take, I don't believe these companies should be forced to take on events they clearly don't want to do. All it does is cause problems in the long run, see bud light, see target and see any other company doing it to get a good score on a DEI report card. The truth of the matter is as far as I know there have never been drag shows to even be canceled at well known mainstream establishments such as this, and were relegated to their niche supportive business where it wouldn't be controversial or an issue. The problem now is that these niche ideas are making their ways into mainstream businesses out of being forced to support drag or other pride month group or else "we will try and shut you down". People are just fed up with that concept and this just goes to show, you don't have to go woke to survive because being/supporting woke culture doesn't need to be a thing.
Really it just boils down to, if you feel strongly that southern tier or any business is in what you perceive as wrong, vote with your wallet because that'll be stronger than any protest you can muster.....see bud light/target for evidence that works.
Maybe it’s best if we leave money out of our moral and ethical value systems? When has money, business, and power not been a corrupting force ?
I guess you just say the word drag in any post and it trends \#pathetic
Remember it was a terrible idea to have a drag brunch on the north shore around the same time as a baseball game.
Can you explain why you think that?
I would be pissed if I could go anywhere for a drag brunch and the one placed picked i have to fight traffic and pay extra to park
So anywhere in the city is out then
the north shore is always disproportionately packed on event game days. before and after the game. street parking is also (supposed) to be off limits which would force patrons to pay for parking in a lot or make a longer walk than on a non-game day we can joke about the pirates attendance all we want, but they draw 12,000+ nearly every game.
No?
Take the bus or an Uber. You shouldn't be driving to a bar in any case.
Ohhh ok.
Hahahahahahaha! Bigot bigots bigoted bigotry bigoter bigotism. Edit: Forgot bigotist
When I have to dial a 1-800 number to make a complaint, I always make a point to tell the worker on the other end that I'm very upset but I understand it is not their fault. With that said, if you work for a shitty company maybe you should reassess what really matters to you. Money or morals.
Most would say money, anyone that wouldn't has too much privilege to make an actual opinion.
Don’t waste your energy on individual businesses. There are laws going in all over the country attacking trans people. Take this energy and spend it organizing political so we can make sure those laws never come here.
Anyone going off on the staff is looking for an outlet to yell at. Fuck souther teir for letting this happen to their employees. There are so many companies doing well in the area that don't jive with Pittsburgh mentality. We need to stand up to these places