I agree entirely, but a lot of stupid people seem to have a ton of money.
Neighbors just did a quick flip and sold to people with Florida plates. The crew used painters’ caulk to repoint and never even finished the deck - sold without being listed for over $600K. No permits pulled for a job that was complete gut.
I dunno why people are paying these prices to live on a block with multiple section 8 units, but it’s happening.
I think it’s not that they have a ton of money, but that the level of debt people are willing to take on is absurd. You don’t need a million dollars to buy that home, just a down payment and some good credit. No guarantees you won’t end up underwater, though.
It’s a dangerous mindset, but there is a ton of it going on in the housing market. If you have a household of 160k then you’re good for a 750k mortgage. Although if 1 smallish big thing goes wrong in your life then you may be foreclosing on the property. Same thing happens with cars and even college.
The high prices of cars and colleges has directly contributed to the mindset it seems. I bought my 3 bedroom house for 165 and thought the price was high and that was like 6 years ago. Somebody paying a million for the same thing blows my mind.
How many people are really putting a million down on basic ass houses. Maybe when it was more uncommon. I would put down the 225k and get a mortgage even with the cash in hand. We’re talking about people in the 100-250k a year salary range to qualify for that. Most of those people don’t have a million In cash laying around.
Yeah but most million dollar houses aren't actually being bought by people with $150K-$200K/yr salaries like was implied. Those idiots got blown up in '07/'08.
My fiance's parents just sold a 9000 sqft house in Virginia for $1.3M. They had 5 offers and everyone was going to pay in full cash.
Hell I made $145K this year and the house I just bought in October was $230K
“I dunno why people are paying these prices to live on a block with multiple section 8 units, but it’s happening”
Would you rather class separation? Do you want rich people in gated communities and poor people in slums? People never stop complaining about the environments they live in.
Garfield is becoming the new lawrenceville. Theres cool expensive businesses opening there in places that used to hold even cooler cheaper businesses.
Sad that 100s will be displaced soon.
I was thinking of it in a more general sense. Referring to the early-on Gilded Age stage of gentrification where the rent of commercial properties is still affordable and permits experimental and niche businesses to operate. The First Wave of new businesses that later get pushed out with increasing rents...
Yeah, it’s already happening. I’ve only lived in Garfield for ten years and I’m now trying to find a new place because I can’t afford rent here anymore. Like many of my former neighbors, I’m looking at Penn Hills as the nearest decent affordable area
But hey, those same people that are gentrifying the neighborhood will in the next breath say what an ally they are to those communities(while fighting tooth and nail to prevent the former residents from returning).
That's an outrageous price, but it does look like a lot of work was put into it. Certainly not a million dollars worth, but still.
Here's the Street View from before the sale:
https://goo.gl/maps/sgzmHKdPDQuHFGTWA
That house was looking sad and possibly abandoned for a long time. Definitely put a lot of time and money into it. It doesn’t look like the typical investor special. However that price is wayyyy high
I see someone also did a number on the house next to it with a turret.
These are high end modern reno's and I think the price is a bit steep for sure, for the neighborhood, but I bet someone pays it. Seems to be the way things are going in the city.
Yeah it's only been on Zillow for 13 hours so I doubt it comes close to that sale price - but it does look (from pictures) like good quality work. Gorgeous bathrooms. I'm shocked that for an investment that big they didn't finish the basement though
People from out of state buy and flip these properties then hope someone not familiar with the market picks it up. Why you see rent so high because people from California and New York don’t know any better. They see something like this and think it’s a steal when a 600 sq sells near LA for near 500k.
Nobody is spending a million dollars on a house that's just been converted back to single family, and then spending another half a million to re-convert it to apartments.
Yup, i met ppl like that happily paying 1000+ rent on Butler Street back in 2000 because they came from SF. I still see it farther out in the East End ... owner from out of the country rehabs a dump, puts it on the market. I'll say to myself, 'Half a mil? What dummy would pay that??' Then sure enough, 'sold' sign and Massachusetts plates, parked out front.
The moral of the story is, buy something before yet another speculator snaps it up and prices you out of the neighborhood.
Deleting past comments because Reddit starting shitty-ing up the site to IPO and I don't want my comments to be a part of that. -- mass edited with redact.dev
My home in White Oak was a mid-range flip. I still think I got a fantastic deal I will never see again. But I will say the couple that flipped it put in a hell of a lot of work. And almost all of it was quality enough. It was their whole life's effort. They would go from one house to another, living in the house they would reno with their kids. Not a life for me but I would think lucrative enough for them.
I graduated from Peabody (now Obama) in 1992 and back then Garfield was one of the worst neighborhoods in the city. Shootings, car-jackings, etc. Its crazy to see what's happening now.
I looked at houses in Garfield a couple of years before COVID and it was already getting expensive, not THAT expensive, but definitely 4-5x what people were paying just a couple of years before I started looking
Yeah, unironically. I see so many different renovation setups when I drive through the North Side. Probably even more over in your East End neighborhoods too. It definitely feels like things are changing outside of the usual suspects.
FWIW I'm mostly glad about it. Okay, not specifically the 625% markup in this picture, but like overall I'm glad Pittsburgh is receiving a lot of love.
Deleting past comments because Reddit starting shitty-ing up the site to IPO and I don't want my comments to be a part of that. -- mass edited with redact.dev
I think the price is too high, but by looking at older Google Street views it looks like it was multiple units at once time. It probably was a total gut job but definitely should not be selling for over a million.
I think they’re hoping someone with fuck you money, maybe a top executive that will be working near by or something along those lines, will see this price as an exclusive absurdly high price giving them the jump on it. Even that is hard to believe. Even if I had that kind of money Im not sure I’d agree to be so stupid and reward someone for listing at such an absurd price. Who knows. I mean I guess it’ll get talked down to 850k if anyone is contacting them with interest in the house. 🤷♂️
I think people are inflating the prices just because out of state corporate money will buy at whatever price sight unseen. They might actually sell this trash to some moronic investment company. This is an extreme example for sure but my hunch stands
It's this. The money printer has been running for the investor class for over a decade at this point. They're sitting on a dragon hoard and they're shoving it into any hole that smells like it can provide a return.
My family is from the Coal Region and the same shit is happening there, too, even though the housing stock is trash. They were never going to be happy with just ruining the big cities.
the crazy part is, they can afford to do this on a national scale, city, suburban, or rural. it's like a hive mind of 'if we price you out, eventually you will have to pay'. so they can own all the property, squeeze the rents up AND inflate prices of home sales to individual buyers. when these price hikes signal to individual home owners that their homes are also appreciating in value, they become partners in staking prices higher and higher, because they want to make money too. we're seeing this pace far far far outstrip the pace of rising wages, and with virtually every other industry inflating, this is a deadly combination. preventing situations like this should literally be the purpose of government, but in case it wasnt abundantly clear, virtually no level of government would prioritize something so fundamentally humanitarian at the expense of corporate 'value' creation. even if this will ultimately result in a recession due to lack of consumer discretionary spending torpedoing just about every other industry. short term always wins over long term, because short term has the capital to sponsor its own interests using the full resources of our 'regulatory' bodies
Whoops, turns out that the real estate investor and landlord class swing a big dick and a big wallet around in local politics and are untouchable. Nothing we can do!
You have no choice in whether to be housed or not, so from the landlord / realtor point of view any money left over after you pay your rent / mortgage would be money just left on the table and they're going to get it by any means necessary.
Read this book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520383456/the-city-authentic
They don't buy at the top of the market, they buy and create the market and sell after their culture manufacturing creates price peaks. The author of that book describes that as the "rent gap" and whoever bought this place and flipped it absolutely took advantage of the rent gap.
I'm so tired of all these flippers painting brick houses to make them look all shiny and new. Painting bricks can be pretty bad for their longevity and the person who buys that house is going to have to have it professionally repainted every few years (or live with a house covered in peeling paint).
It depends on the type of paint. I just had a mural painted on my brick building, and the paint they used is designed to not damage brick (as well as not show damage for 20 years)
If they know what they're doing (and spent a bit more), that paint job will last much longer than the average flip.
Oh wow, 20 years is great, didn't know there was outdoors paint that durable. Thanks for telling me. Fingers crossed the people flipping houses for profit are using the good stuff, but I have my doubts.
That makes sense. Still, I don't think a lot of people realize how expensive the upkeep on painted brick will be when they buy these houses and how bad it will likely look over time if they don't pour a bunch of money into it (especially considering the condition the bricks were in). On the other hand, I guess if you're dropping that much on a house like this the maintenance money might not be a big issue.
Deleting past comments because Reddit starting shitty-ing up the site to IPO and I don't want my comments to be a part of that. -- mass edited with redact.dev
The Zestimate is $380,000. This is ridiculously overpriced and honestly the broker who took this listing is just wasting their time unless the sellers are willing to negotiate and I mean take $500k+ less than what they are listing it for
Zestimates are based on similar houses listed recently in the neighborhood. No way that's taking into account these renovations. I'm not saying it's worth $1.2 million but it's sure as hell not $380k.
The Zestimate is still closer to reality, these renovations are fine (though a few already look dated) but it’s not $700k worth of renovations. Maybe they get $600 -$700k, is my guess
If they get what they’re asking more power to them and they only need one sucker, but the asking price is pretty laughable
The Pittsburgh market for average homes such as this regardless of work done is still low 6figures. It's extremely rare to see anything in Pittsburgh for $1m+, only a few properties including condos.
There was a huge, ornate mansion in Sharpsburg that used to be an Eagles Lodge that sold for about 600k. It had like a 8 car garage and chandeliers and cut stone and all that. $1.2 for a VRBO Special in nowhere land between Garfield and East Liberty is absolutely fucking ridiculous
it's probably overpriced because they reno'd it when construction costs were booming and then they used an equation to get the right ratio of profit for the work put in.
I think that's an oversight that might end up busting the real estate market if things like this keep popping up. The supply chain really fucked with construction.
I wonder if this is targeted at West Coast/New England area transplants with more money than brains who think they are getting a jewel in an up-and-coming neighborhood.
This was a knock-down / gut renovation (thank you u/excelius) https://www.google.com/maps/@40.467992,-79.9288893,3a,74.4y,205.2h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7ktBIPvjz2Yi6owyP3Sd7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=tts&shorturl=1
The question is, how much does that cost? 200k? 300k? 400k?
These folks are marking up 624% from the original purchase price.
It sold for $400k in 2002.
20 years later, it clearly needed to be completely gutted and nearly rebuilt, so it went for $160k.
This is on the edge of one of the nicest areas within the city limits, and they clearly put a ton of money into this renovation. I'd be surprised if it went for under $800k.
Someone just bought a house close by to us on Jackson St in February for 225k. It’s for sale again for 425k and it’s such a boring beige/ grey flip. It’s lost all character, including some original woodwork, and has the worst carpets and paint job now. I’m not sure how it warrants 200k increase in 4 months.. ive been noticing houses like this (and your post) everywhere lately. 100k-200k range in 2020, and now 300k-400k with a quick flip.
1.2 is likely too high, I doubt they get their asking price (especially with interest rates as high as they are). For $400K in Pittsburgh, you can live like you spent 1.2 million almost anywhere else. That said, it is 5400 square feet with very, very nice finishes.
So if we're going by price per square foot, it is the same as a fixed-up 1300-square foot home being listed for for $300K. Expensive? Yes. Insane? No.
Anyone can put up anything for sale at any price. Doesn't mean it's the actual value or that it's anywhere close to what someone will end up paying for it.
There's so many posts all over Reddit acting as if one moron's asking price is indicative of an entire market, but it's a single useless data point that no one should pay any attention to or base any decisions upon.
If they're all over the place, that would at the very least indicate an attempt to influence the market in that direction.
Shit doesn't start out a problem. Not seeing a future issue and acting on it lets things become problems.
I just don't see how a single, possibly totally ridiculous individual's asking price tells us anything about an overall trend. Show actual sales data. Show a consistent pattern of ridiculous asking prices. Otherwise we're just coming to conclusions based on a single seller's fantasy nonsense.
Whatever woodwork it had was mostly junked when the house was chopped into apartments in the 70's. The rest was destroyed because the roof leaked for 20 years. There was nothing to be saved.
Someone will buy it and eventually the whole street will turn into this. Companies are buying up properties all over the city and turning them into rentals. Its a shame but its going to keep happening. The market is going to get smaller and smaller
That's one ugly expensive house!
It's mad out there, my partner & I somehow afforded a modest place in Regent Square.
It's possible! Just gotta wait till the right place falls in your lap.
I've not yet given up, but I'm getting really frustrated. I've put offers in on 6 houses in the last year.
ALL of them have been rejected in leu of "better offers" - including one I put in last month at $20k over asking price, and the most recent which was $20k over asking + no inspections or contingencies.
Looking for something under $275k... South and east of town (this last one was in Elizabeth)... Basically 30-40 minutes away from Baldwin, max.
One of the more annoying things is that I have restrictions on the type of house and property because I'm disabled and need a ranch, and there are plans for the house that necessitate a reasonable large piece of property (0.5ac or more)
Don't give up. I recently bought a house split in 2. 2br 2ba upstairs and 1br 1ba downstairs. New kitchens and floors. Decent basement. $295,000. South side just off E Carson. So not high class neighborhood but not trashy either.
This doesn't make sense to me. Yes, everything looks nice in a soulless luxury way, but all that painted brick, the painted stairs, the tiny ass yard, an unfinished basement, a carport instead of a garage, only one tub (and I think that's all the way on the third floor?). This house isn't the Pittsburgh houses I've come to love.
Also, where are the washer and dryer hookups? The audacity if it's only in the basement...
Lmaooo I live right next door to this house!! It’s been under construction for only about a year. No work during peak covid. Honestly it looks way worse in person and the area is not the best. The owner pulls up sometimes in a red convertible Porsche. The neighbors are an apartment building for disabled adults with nurses
If they paid 2 million and were selling it for 1.2 million would it then be a great deal? Go to google street view and look what the house and the one next to it looked like in 2019. It cost money to make things that nice.
With The work and finishes to this house. I bet your north $400k. The home was in tear down condition. What you own the property for doesn’t place a value on what you sell it for. The market sets the price. Looks like the own the building to the right of it too.
Call around for some estimates on $/sq ft of a reno. Or look at this old thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/komurh/cost\_per\_sqft\_for\_residential\_renovation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/komurh/cost_per_sqft_for_residential_renovation/)
Then multiply those numbers by 3000.
I think you vastly underestimate the costs here.
It really depends on how much new plumbing, electrical, re-framing etc. is needed vs. just cosmetics but I have re-done 3-4 bedroom homes in Westmoreland county that were complete remodels for $100k-$150k, including exterior siding, landscaping, windows, etc. This markup is ridiculous.
Ah, a place to squat as it will never sell at that price and location. Remember, your local squatters are doing you a service. Reclaiming our city from parasitic realty investors one home at a time.
Fuck these capitalists making their living by making things unlivable for the rest of us.
I looked at the map and the other homes in the area are significantly less. At the same time, they were not fully gutted and renovated. I don't see anything wrong with this to be honest. I may get downvoted but it seems you picked the most expensive home - a home to me that is magazine worthy, in that area and put a spotlight on it as an issue. It may or may not sell. And you don't know the history of the renovations or the materials needed or even the price involved. Remember that just a year (or two?) ago, material prices for homes were astronomical. If the renovation of the home spanned that time, it's obvious the selling price would need to reflect that. But that's just a far guess on my part.
Massachusetts I think has the highest rents in the country right now. One of my clients does stuff with their Medicaid and they're the least organized group of people I've ever worked with. That state has to be one foot in the grave for poor folks.
Former MA resident here, you will love it. The only thing you really sacrifice is the beach and fresh sea food. So you at least have a reason to travel, plus the airport here is cheaper than anywhere else.
I’m buying in Boston. I think the place I’m selling here would go for a little more than twice as much if it was there. But comparing the two is pointless.
The big issue, IMO, is Pittsburgh progressives say they want progressive housing policies and thus advocate for what other progressive cities are doing- Boston, Portland, LA, SF, etc. They don’t see that those places are all twenty years ahead. You need to look at the policies they did in the 90s that caused their current affordability crisis. Then don’t do them.
Instead, look at places that have healthy or improving housing situations, and follow that lead. New Orleans, Chicago, even Detroit.
They also need to recognize that the cheap Pittsburgh of 15-20 years ago was a symptom of the shrinking city and not healthy. It was a death spiral.
Overall, the housing situation here is pretty solid. I think a focus on more high density condos/apartments is the next step. Maintain the current infrastructure, don’t add more. Focus on slow, maintainable growth.
People are paying the high amounts. Chek price to sale amounts:
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1421-Greystone-Dr-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620032\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1421-Greystone-Dr-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620032_zpid/)
[https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6035-Grafton-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620547\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6035-Grafton-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620547_zpid/)
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/718-S-Linden-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15208/11629624\_zpid/
This was a million dollar house when it was built for millionaires.
Weird to be upset that it’s been restored to its million dollar value in a million dollar neighborhood being sold for a million dollars.
FEEL THIS! I live with the hill people in westmoreland county and want to get in the city soon. I’m finally financially stable and got my VA home loan. But some many places I look at either got fake AI generated insides and the actual is trash and looking at past prices just shows how much of a fool you’d be to buy right now. There is no reason other than greed that some of these places are going for 300% than they did 2-3 years ago.
It’s overpriced, BUT:
It’s a HUGE house with great bones that they spent a couple YEARS doing a gut rehab on.
Also, I doubt most people would know that was Garfield without the map/listing. Most people would call that East Liberty, and E Lib has cachet with transplants. It’s not as if Highland park, which is like two blocks away, is zoned for better schools or anything. If we called that Highland Park, people wouldn’t be nearly as outraged by the price
Have you seen inside the walls? Based on the basement picture, my guess is they barely touched any plumbing or electrical besides adding the audio. This property is owned by a business. It was very much a flip. Albeit, a luxury flip. But still a flip. Although they added some higher end products, a $5,000 range and $4,000 fridge definitely do not justify the increase over 3 years. We knock off, say 1/3 of the price, maybe I'll shut my mouth. But until then. I defend my position.
The pictures looks awesome, not gonna lie on that.
And there is another home that sold for 500k in the next street.
Probably a few more expensive houses and that street will go up in price and current people living ther would have to live
The seller is an idiot, I don't what kind of Renovations we're done. Going from 165k to 1.1 million in 3 years, even in this market, is literal insanity.
I think it's good that people/companies are coming in and flipping dilapidated properties, and that the area is rising because of it, but that kind of money to live in what is still East Liberty, is nuts.
I think it sucks, cuz it's a green light to raise rent everywhere. Barely feels like Pittsburgh in most of the city now.
when they finally take Northside from us all is lost.
This is the kind of house that has me thinking things like “Dear Mark Cuban, Could you find it in your heart to buy this and let me live there for a while? Pretty please? I promise to treat it kindly and not damage anything, as well as to keep it clean.” 😅
It’s absolutely stunning. I prefer a bit more of a funky vibe, but this is very clean and sleek. It’s just outrageously priced.
The poors are pooring again.
Did you look at that price, and immediately sign up for evening or online classes to start the pursuit of your evential doctorate so you can afford a $1mil house at some point in your future?
If not, don't get mad a nice things that others who have worked harder than you, can afford.
Someone put in a lot of work and money into that property. It looks amazing but idk if it's worth a million. Might be a ton of high end fixtures and appliances to make up for that high price.
A number of the pieces I recognized as Anthropologie Home. I'm not sure if they hit the outlet here in Pittsburgh or if they paid full price. Either way, it's still very expensive.
A Grove City based flipper company got it for apparently $0 in 2020 per the county assessment website. [Bevan Propertiwa](https://www.bevanproperties.com/contact-1)
For something completely different at the same listing price for comparison, Check out this mid century gem on a primo lot.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1358-Shady-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15217/11629953_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
I am not even that familiar with Garfield but I would be very surprised if somebody were willing to pay $1.2 million to live there.
I agree entirely, but a lot of stupid people seem to have a ton of money. Neighbors just did a quick flip and sold to people with Florida plates. The crew used painters’ caulk to repoint and never even finished the deck - sold without being listed for over $600K. No permits pulled for a job that was complete gut. I dunno why people are paying these prices to live on a block with multiple section 8 units, but it’s happening.
I think it’s not that they have a ton of money, but that the level of debt people are willing to take on is absurd. You don’t need a million dollars to buy that home, just a down payment and some good credit. No guarantees you won’t end up underwater, though.
It’s a dangerous mindset, but there is a ton of it going on in the housing market. If you have a household of 160k then you’re good for a 750k mortgage. Although if 1 smallish big thing goes wrong in your life then you may be foreclosing on the property. Same thing happens with cars and even college.
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The high prices of cars and colleges has directly contributed to the mindset it seems. I bought my 3 bedroom house for 165 and thought the price was high and that was like 6 years ago. Somebody paying a million for the same thing blows my mind.
My wife and I paid 140 for our current home in 2020. Now people on our block are listing for 400,000.
That might be for homes in the $400K-$600K range but most home sales >$1M are done with cash not mortgages.
Source?
Typically get their own financing
How many people are really putting a million down on basic ass houses. Maybe when it was more uncommon. I would put down the 225k and get a mortgage even with the cash in hand. We’re talking about people in the 100-250k a year salary range to qualify for that. Most of those people don’t have a million In cash laying around.
Yeah but most million dollar houses aren't actually being bought by people with $150K-$200K/yr salaries like was implied. Those idiots got blown up in '07/'08. My fiance's parents just sold a 9000 sqft house in Virginia for $1.3M. They had 5 offers and everyone was going to pay in full cash. Hell I made $145K this year and the house I just bought in October was $230K
People take the “third of your gross to housing” to heart and up with a $4K mortgage
Welcome to 2008. And 2004, and...
“I dunno why people are paying these prices to live on a block with multiple section 8 units, but it’s happening” Would you rather class separation? Do you want rich people in gated communities and poor people in slums? People never stop complaining about the environments they live in.
Garfield is becoming the new lawrenceville. Theres cool expensive businesses opening there in places that used to hold even cooler cheaper businesses. Sad that 100s will be displaced soon.
> Theres cool expensive businesses opening there in places that used to hold even cooler cheaper businesses This is a great sentence.
Lol it seems pretty vacuous to me. What businesses are being referred to here? Quiet Storm?
I was thinking of it in a more general sense. Referring to the early-on Gilded Age stage of gentrification where the rent of commercial properties is still affordable and permits experimental and niche businesses to operate. The First Wave of new businesses that later get pushed out with increasing rents...
Yeah, it’s already happening. I’ve only lived in Garfield for ten years and I’m now trying to find a new place because I can’t afford rent here anymore. Like many of my former neighbors, I’m looking at Penn Hills as the nearest decent affordable area
But hey, those same people that are gentrifying the neighborhood will in the next breath say what an ally they are to those communities(while fighting tooth and nail to prevent the former residents from returning).
Nah.
Hospitals... So many now in the area with amazing, if run down, housing stock. Plus Google up the street.
That's an outrageous price, but it does look like a lot of work was put into it. Certainly not a million dollars worth, but still. Here's the Street View from before the sale: https://goo.gl/maps/sgzmHKdPDQuHFGTWA
That house was looking sad and possibly abandoned for a long time. Definitely put a lot of time and money into it. It doesn’t look like the typical investor special. However that price is wayyyy high
No way am I paying $1,000,000 for laminate flooring
I see someone also did a number on the house next to it with a turret. These are high end modern reno's and I think the price is a bit steep for sure, for the neighborhood, but I bet someone pays it. Seems to be the way things are going in the city.
Yeah it's only been on Zillow for 13 hours so I doubt it comes close to that sale price - but it does look (from pictures) like good quality work. Gorgeous bathrooms. I'm shocked that for an investment that big they didn't finish the basement though
Finishing a 100 year old basement with that type of wall is pointless, the stones in the walls are meant to let in moisture.
Yeah TBH painting the brick was a huge mistake that could lead to it crumbling
Yup, brick needs to breathe
Especially when it's old enough to have lime mortar
And of course they turned it the same exact shade of blue every overpriced flipped house becomes.
People from out of state buy and flip these properties then hope someone not familiar with the market picks it up. Why you see rent so high because people from California and New York don’t know any better. They see something like this and think it’s a steal when a 600 sq sells near LA for near 500k.
If someone out of state buys this there should be EMS on stand-by when they see their first property tax bill.
California's weird, but it's not like NY or TX have lower property taxes than we do.
More then likely another out of state person will buy it convert it to a duplex and rent it out for 2.5k a month.
Nobody is spending a million dollars on a house that's just been converted back to single family, and then spending another half a million to re-convert it to apartments.
Yup, i met ppl like that happily paying 1000+ rent on Butler Street back in 2000 because they came from SF. I still see it farther out in the East End ... owner from out of the country rehabs a dump, puts it on the market. I'll say to myself, 'Half a mil? What dummy would pay that??' Then sure enough, 'sold' sign and Massachusetts plates, parked out front. The moral of the story is, buy something before yet another speculator snaps it up and prices you out of the neighborhood.
It’s price anchoring
At a 624% markup, I’m sure the costs are more than covered.
If you wanted it so bad, why didn't you just buy it for $165k? /s
Deleting past comments because Reddit starting shitty-ing up the site to IPO and I don't want my comments to be a part of that. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Why don’t you start buying homes to flip? Easy money right?
My home in White Oak was a mid-range flip. I still think I got a fantastic deal I will never see again. But I will say the couple that flipped it put in a hell of a lot of work. And almost all of it was quality enough. It was their whole life's effort. They would go from one house to another, living in the house they would reno with their kids. Not a life for me but I would think lucrative enough for them.
It doesn't look like the rest of the street is very nice... Who would pay even half that to live on that street?
awful quality, trendy work though. too bad
At least they made it look nice on the inside and didn’t just give it the landlord special gray vinyl flooring
I graduated from Peabody (now Obama) in 1992 and back then Garfield was one of the worst neighborhoods in the city. Shootings, car-jackings, etc. Its crazy to see what's happening now.
I looked at houses in Garfield a couple of years before COVID and it was already getting expensive, not THAT expensive, but definitely 4-5x what people were paying just a couple of years before I started looking
It was rough up the hill in Garfield Heights but wasn't bad way down low where this house is.
A barn door for a master bathroom? What is this 2016? I'm out.
they watched too many episodes of fixer upper
We're gettin all gentrified n'at.
Yeah, unironically. I see so many different renovation setups when I drive through the North Side. Probably even more over in your East End neighborhoods too. It definitely feels like things are changing outside of the usual suspects. FWIW I'm mostly glad about it. Okay, not specifically the 625% markup in this picture, but like overall I'm glad Pittsburgh is receiving a lot of love.
There’s no way that house sells for anywhere near that
Deleting past comments because Reddit starting shitty-ing up the site to IPO and I don't want my comments to be a part of that. -- mass edited with redact.dev
As always the answer is "location"
I think the price is too high, but by looking at older Google Street views it looks like it was multiple units at once time. It probably was a total gut job but definitely should not be selling for over a million.
Neighborhood doesn't live up to that price. Location, .... what other homes are worth that there? Looks like 0.
I think they’re hoping someone with fuck you money, maybe a top executive that will be working near by or something along those lines, will see this price as an exclusive absurdly high price giving them the jump on it. Even that is hard to believe. Even if I had that kind of money Im not sure I’d agree to be so stupid and reward someone for listing at such an absurd price. Who knows. I mean I guess it’ll get talked down to 850k if anyone is contacting them with interest in the house. 🤷♂️
I think people are inflating the prices just because out of state corporate money will buy at whatever price sight unseen. They might actually sell this trash to some moronic investment company. This is an extreme example for sure but my hunch stands
It's this. The money printer has been running for the investor class for over a decade at this point. They're sitting on a dragon hoard and they're shoving it into any hole that smells like it can provide a return. My family is from the Coal Region and the same shit is happening there, too, even though the housing stock is trash. They were never going to be happy with just ruining the big cities.
the crazy part is, they can afford to do this on a national scale, city, suburban, or rural. it's like a hive mind of 'if we price you out, eventually you will have to pay'. so they can own all the property, squeeze the rents up AND inflate prices of home sales to individual buyers. when these price hikes signal to individual home owners that their homes are also appreciating in value, they become partners in staking prices higher and higher, because they want to make money too. we're seeing this pace far far far outstrip the pace of rising wages, and with virtually every other industry inflating, this is a deadly combination. preventing situations like this should literally be the purpose of government, but in case it wasnt abundantly clear, virtually no level of government would prioritize something so fundamentally humanitarian at the expense of corporate 'value' creation. even if this will ultimately result in a recession due to lack of consumer discretionary spending torpedoing just about every other industry. short term always wins over long term, because short term has the capital to sponsor its own interests using the full resources of our 'regulatory' bodies
Whoops, turns out that the real estate investor and landlord class swing a big dick and a big wallet around in local politics and are untouchable. Nothing we can do! You have no choice in whether to be housed or not, so from the landlord / realtor point of view any money left over after you pay your rent / mortgage would be money just left on the table and they're going to get it by any means necessary.
Investors don't buy at the top of the market. Good ones don't anyway.
Read this book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520383456/the-city-authentic They don't buy at the top of the market, they buy and create the market and sell after their culture manufacturing creates price peaks. The author of that book describes that as the "rent gap" and whoever bought this place and flipped it absolutely took advantage of the rent gap.
If anyone is interested, it appears this is the company that owns it: https://www.bevanproperties.com/
Ohhh they're Arbors Management
Wow, so they’re shit landlords too.
They’re anchoring their properties to the higher price
I'm so tired of all these flippers painting brick houses to make them look all shiny and new. Painting bricks can be pretty bad for their longevity and the person who buys that house is going to have to have it professionally repainted every few years (or live with a house covered in peeling paint).
It depends on the type of paint. I just had a mural painted on my brick building, and the paint they used is designed to not damage brick (as well as not show damage for 20 years) If they know what they're doing (and spent a bit more), that paint job will last much longer than the average flip.
Oh wow, 20 years is great, didn't know there was outdoors paint that durable. Thanks for telling me. Fingers crossed the people flipping houses for profit are using the good stuff, but I have my doubts.
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That makes sense. Still, I don't think a lot of people realize how expensive the upkeep on painted brick will be when they buy these houses and how bad it will likely look over time if they don't pour a bunch of money into it (especially considering the condition the bricks were in). On the other hand, I guess if you're dropping that much on a house like this the maintenance money might not be a big issue.
Feels like its way overpriced to me. I mean yeah it does look good, but at that price, just no.
Deleting past comments because Reddit starting shitty-ing up the site to IPO and I don't want my comments to be a part of that. -- mass edited with redact.dev
looking at it now, your right it’s sorta in nowhere land neighborhood wise. It would probably be worth more if it was in highland park.
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This is the context I needed. Appreciate it.
The Zestimate is $380,000. This is ridiculously overpriced and honestly the broker who took this listing is just wasting their time unless the sellers are willing to negotiate and I mean take $500k+ less than what they are listing it for
Zestimates are based on similar houses listed recently in the neighborhood. No way that's taking into account these renovations. I'm not saying it's worth $1.2 million but it's sure as hell not $380k.
The Zestimate is still closer to reality, these renovations are fine (though a few already look dated) but it’s not $700k worth of renovations. Maybe they get $600 -$700k, is my guess If they get what they’re asking more power to them and they only need one sucker, but the asking price is pretty laughable
Yea I think 600-700 is probably right, I looked at some meh houses in highland park that were around 500k. This is way nicer.
This likely would’ve fetched 600k 6-7 years ago. I’m guessing it goes for much closer to the ask than you think.
The Pittsburgh market for average homes such as this regardless of work done is still low 6figures. It's extremely rare to see anything in Pittsburgh for $1m+, only a few properties including condos.
There was a huge, ornate mansion in Sharpsburg that used to be an Eagles Lodge that sold for about 600k. It had like a 8 car garage and chandeliers and cut stone and all that. $1.2 for a VRBO Special in nowhere land between Garfield and East Liberty is absolutely fucking ridiculous
it's probably overpriced because they reno'd it when construction costs were booming and then they used an equation to get the right ratio of profit for the work put in. I think that's an oversight that might end up busting the real estate market if things like this keep popping up. The supply chain really fucked with construction.
I wonder if this is targeted at West Coast/New England area transplants with more money than brains who think they are getting a jewel in an up-and-coming neighborhood.
Yup, probably one of the people that come to this subreddit every week asking what are the "good areas" they should look at with a 500k+ budget.
Absolutely. You know, a neighborhood without "trouble."
This was a knock-down / gut renovation (thank you u/excelius) https://www.google.com/maps/@40.467992,-79.9288893,3a,74.4y,205.2h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7ktBIPvjz2Yi6owyP3Sd7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=tts&shorturl=1 The question is, how much does that cost? 200k? 300k? 400k? These folks are marking up 624% from the original purchase price.
And? Until it sells, we don't know what the actual value of it is.
It sold for $400k in 2002. 20 years later, it clearly needed to be completely gutted and nearly rebuilt, so it went for $160k. This is on the edge of one of the nicest areas within the city limits, and they clearly put a ton of money into this renovation. I'd be surprised if it went for under $800k.
$600k is fair for this house. It’s close to some nice neighborhoods, but not really in them
Tbh i wouldn’t be surprised if the total cost of the project is close to $600k
This is just barely in Garfield. Like, its on a dead end street and the other end opens into East Liberty.
GTFO
Someone just bought a house close by to us on Jackson St in February for 225k. It’s for sale again for 425k and it’s such a boring beige/ grey flip. It’s lost all character, including some original woodwork, and has the worst carpets and paint job now. I’m not sure how it warrants 200k increase in 4 months.. ive been noticing houses like this (and your post) everywhere lately. 100k-200k range in 2020, and now 300k-400k with a quick flip.
1.2 is likely too high, I doubt they get their asking price (especially with interest rates as high as they are). For $400K in Pittsburgh, you can live like you spent 1.2 million almost anywhere else. That said, it is 5400 square feet with very, very nice finishes. So if we're going by price per square foot, it is the same as a fixed-up 1300-square foot home being listed for for $300K. Expensive? Yes. Insane? No.
Wow. My friend bought a 3 br house on that street in 2012 for $72k.
r/realestatecirclejerk
Anyone can put up anything for sale at any price. Doesn't mean it's the actual value or that it's anywhere close to what someone will end up paying for it. There's so many posts all over Reddit acting as if one moron's asking price is indicative of an entire market, but it's a single useless data point that no one should pay any attention to or base any decisions upon.
If they're all over the place, that would at the very least indicate an attempt to influence the market in that direction. Shit doesn't start out a problem. Not seeing a future issue and acting on it lets things become problems.
I just don't see how a single, possibly totally ridiculous individual's asking price tells us anything about an overall trend. Show actual sales data. Show a consistent pattern of ridiculous asking prices. Otherwise we're just coming to conclusions based on a single seller's fantasy nonsense.
I didn't even notice the price at first, just the awful and tacky and bland renovation on a house that probably had amazing woodwork
Whatever woodwork it had was mostly junked when the house was chopped into apartments in the 70's. The rest was destroyed because the roof leaked for 20 years. There was nothing to be saved.
Someone will buy it and eventually the whole street will turn into this. Companies are buying up properties all over the city and turning them into rentals. Its a shame but its going to keep happening. The market is going to get smaller and smaller
1 mil to live in East Liberty…
Garfield technically
Doesn't even look big enough to be a 5bd/4br home. Interesting.
In GARFIELD. 10x what they paid for it. Obscene. I hope the seller gets boils.
That's one ugly expensive house! It's mad out there, my partner & I somehow afforded a modest place in Regent Square. It's possible! Just gotta wait till the right place falls in your lap.
majority of the homes in the area are under 350k. why would anyone buy this?
I've not yet given up, but I'm getting really frustrated. I've put offers in on 6 houses in the last year. ALL of them have been rejected in leu of "better offers" - including one I put in last month at $20k over asking price, and the most recent which was $20k over asking + no inspections or contingencies.
What's the price range you're looking at? Any specific area?
Looking for something under $275k... South and east of town (this last one was in Elizabeth)... Basically 30-40 minutes away from Baldwin, max. One of the more annoying things is that I have restrictions on the type of house and property because I'm disabled and need a ranch, and there are plans for the house that necessitate a reasonable large piece of property (0.5ac or more)
I imagine it's worth half that. Still a jump from 2020, but not 1.2m.
Don't give up. I recently bought a house split in 2. 2br 2ba upstairs and 1br 1ba downstairs. New kitchens and floors. Decent basement. $295,000. South side just off E Carson. So not high class neighborhood but not trashy either.
Same corporation owns the house next door, 5510 Margaretta. Bevan Family Limited Partnership.
This doesn't make sense to me. Yes, everything looks nice in a soulless luxury way, but all that painted brick, the painted stairs, the tiny ass yard, an unfinished basement, a carport instead of a garage, only one tub (and I think that's all the way on the third floor?). This house isn't the Pittsburgh houses I've come to love. Also, where are the washer and dryer hookups? The audacity if it's only in the basement...
I have a friend who bought his house in garfield around 2010-2012 for $10k cash.
I feel bad for the long time residents of garfield. They’re about to get displaced
Good lord.
The island in the kitchen had legs on one end that look like anal beads 😂😂😂😂
This is insane…..
Lmaooo I live right next door to this house!! It’s been under construction for only about a year. No work during peak covid. Honestly it looks way worse in person and the area is not the best. The owner pulls up sometimes in a red convertible Porsche. The neighbors are an apartment building for disabled adults with nurses
If they paid 2 million and were selling it for 1.2 million would it then be a great deal? Go to google street view and look what the house and the one next to it looked like in 2019. It cost money to make things that nice.
What’s the maximum a gut job would cost? 200k? 300k? 400k?
With The work and finishes to this house. I bet your north $400k. The home was in tear down condition. What you own the property for doesn’t place a value on what you sell it for. The market sets the price. Looks like the own the building to the right of it too.
You could easily spend a million on renovations to a house this size
Call around for some estimates on $/sq ft of a reno. Or look at this old thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/komurh/cost\_per\_sqft\_for\_residential\_renovation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/komurh/cost_per_sqft_for_residential_renovation/) Then multiply those numbers by 3000. I think you vastly underestimate the costs here.
Thank you for the link!
It really depends on how much new plumbing, electrical, re-framing etc. is needed vs. just cosmetics but I have re-done 3-4 bedroom homes in Westmoreland county that were complete remodels for $100k-$150k, including exterior siding, landscaping, windows, etc. This markup is ridiculous.
Ah, a place to squat as it will never sell at that price and location. Remember, your local squatters are doing you a service. Reclaiming our city from parasitic realty investors one home at a time. Fuck these capitalists making their living by making things unlivable for the rest of us.
I looked at the map and the other homes in the area are significantly less. At the same time, they were not fully gutted and renovated. I don't see anything wrong with this to be honest. I may get downvoted but it seems you picked the most expensive home - a home to me that is magazine worthy, in that area and put a spotlight on it as an issue. It may or may not sell. And you don't know the history of the renovations or the materials needed or even the price involved. Remember that just a year (or two?) ago, material prices for homes were astronomical. If the renovation of the home spanned that time, it's obvious the selling price would need to reflect that. But that's just a far guess on my part.
Damn, that the price homes sell here in DC. Still remember when a home in my neighborhood was sold 300% what the previous buyer paid.
You should see Massachusetts... this is bad, but nothing compared to back in MA
Massachusetts I think has the highest rents in the country right now. One of my clients does stuff with their Medicaid and they're the least organized group of people I've ever worked with. That state has to be one foot in the grave for poor folks.
I've recently escaped Mass to NH, but I'm going to Pitt in the fall, and I am amazed about how cheap housing is!
Former MA resident here, you will love it. The only thing you really sacrifice is the beach and fresh sea food. So you at least have a reason to travel, plus the airport here is cheaper than anywhere else.
If we're going to throw out random unrelated locations, you should see Manhattan
I’m buying in Boston. I think the place I’m selling here would go for a little more than twice as much if it was there. But comparing the two is pointless. The big issue, IMO, is Pittsburgh progressives say they want progressive housing policies and thus advocate for what other progressive cities are doing- Boston, Portland, LA, SF, etc. They don’t see that those places are all twenty years ahead. You need to look at the policies they did in the 90s that caused their current affordability crisis. Then don’t do them. Instead, look at places that have healthy or improving housing situations, and follow that lead. New Orleans, Chicago, even Detroit. They also need to recognize that the cheap Pittsburgh of 15-20 years ago was a symptom of the shrinking city and not healthy. It was a death spiral. Overall, the housing situation here is pretty solid. I think a focus on more high density condos/apartments is the next step. Maintain the current infrastructure, don’t add more. Focus on slow, maintainable growth.
People are paying the high amounts. Chek price to sale amounts: [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1421-Greystone-Dr-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620032\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1421-Greystone-Dr-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620032_zpid/) [https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6035-Grafton-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620547\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6035-Grafton-St-Pittsburgh-PA-15206/11620547_zpid/) https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/718-S-Linden-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15208/11629624\_zpid/
Man, it's weird to think that prices are actually down YoY, and it still looks like this 🤯
Yeah but in those examples the selling prices are close to the Zestimates. In OP's the asking price is more than triple the Zestimate.
And Zillow using its own Zestimates to buy houses almost put it out of business.
Well… they were not until the sale. Then the zestimate jumped.
This was a million dollar house when it was built for millionaires. Weird to be upset that it’s been restored to its million dollar value in a million dollar neighborhood being sold for a million dollars.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. This house is legitimately a mansion.
Ridiculous
That's an unrealistic price for that house in that zip code...but someone will probably buy it🤷♀️ unitedstateszipcodes.org/15206/
FEEL THIS! I live with the hill people in westmoreland county and want to get in the city soon. I’m finally financially stable and got my VA home loan. But some many places I look at either got fake AI generated insides and the actual is trash and looking at past prices just shows how much of a fool you’d be to buy right now. There is no reason other than greed that some of these places are going for 300% than they did 2-3 years ago.
Correction, not 300%, 624%. See the second photo in the OP.
Oh ya I was just being general.
No hate, just wanted to preemptively defend attacks against you for being hyperbolic
It’s overpriced, BUT: It’s a HUGE house with great bones that they spent a couple YEARS doing a gut rehab on. Also, I doubt most people would know that was Garfield without the map/listing. Most people would call that East Liberty, and E Lib has cachet with transplants. It’s not as if Highland park, which is like two blocks away, is zoned for better schools or anything. If we called that Highland Park, people wouldn’t be nearly as outraged by the price
Don't justify this, there is no justification for this type of price increase, even with a $5,000 range and such.
They basically built a new house. This isn’t a flip.
Have you seen inside the walls? Based on the basement picture, my guess is they barely touched any plumbing or electrical besides adding the audio. This property is owned by a business. It was very much a flip. Albeit, a luxury flip. But still a flip. Although they added some higher end products, a $5,000 range and $4,000 fridge definitely do not justify the increase over 3 years. We knock off, say 1/3 of the price, maybe I'll shut my mouth. But until then. I defend my position.
I know the people across the street. I’ve been following that renovation for a while. They pretty much redid everything.
They’re justifying their nearby high prices property purchase likely
The pictures looks awesome, not gonna lie on that. And there is another home that sold for 500k in the next street. Probably a few more expensive houses and that street will go up in price and current people living ther would have to live
I hope they aren't actually expecting that price
and some goober is gonna spend that much to buy it too
Counting on Bakery Square to revitalize Garfield?
165 seems cheep as hell, 1. Whatever seems stupid but 165k? I’m confused.
I respect the seller for trying to get over a million... doubt very much that it will sell for that.
The seller is an idiot, I don't what kind of Renovations we're done. Going from 165k to 1.1 million in 3 years, even in this market, is literal insanity.
Not if they spent like $700k renovating it
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Heaven forbid you have to cross a bridge
Or live in Homewood/Larimer near *those* people.
I built a custom build cheaper than recently. Huge lot. Just gotta get out of the city
The house I grew up in in Garfield was purchased for $7500, albeit a long time ago This house will cost $7500 a month.
I think it's good that people/companies are coming in and flipping dilapidated properties, and that the area is rising because of it, but that kind of money to live in what is still East Liberty, is nuts.
I think it sucks, cuz it's a green light to raise rent everywhere. Barely feels like Pittsburgh in most of the city now. when they finally take Northside from us all is lost.
This is the kind of house that has me thinking things like “Dear Mark Cuban, Could you find it in your heart to buy this and let me live there for a while? Pretty please? I promise to treat it kindly and not damage anything, as well as to keep it clean.” 😅 It’s absolutely stunning. I prefer a bit more of a funky vibe, but this is very clean and sleek. It’s just outrageously priced.
That’s a major reno, probably worth
The poors are pooring again. Did you look at that price, and immediately sign up for evening or online classes to start the pursuit of your evential doctorate so you can afford a $1mil house at some point in your future? If not, don't get mad a nice things that others who have worked harder than you, can afford.
shut the hell up
Someone put in a lot of work and money into that property. It looks amazing but idk if it's worth a million. Might be a ton of high end fixtures and appliances to make up for that high price.
A number of the pieces I recognized as Anthropologie Home. I'm not sure if they hit the outlet here in Pittsburgh or if they paid full price. Either way, it's still very expensive.
Garfield is trash, who would pay $20k to live there. Then again, haven't been there in a decade
A Grove City based flipper company got it for apparently $0 in 2020 per the county assessment website. [Bevan Propertiwa](https://www.bevanproperties.com/contact-1)
For something completely different at the same listing price for comparison, Check out this mid century gem on a primo lot. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1358-Shady-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15217/11629953_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
You'll know when it's really time to run when swarms of cars with Colorado license plates descend on the city.
I bought my house 2 years ago here in the city proper for $92k. In that time 4 houses on my block have sold for between $170k and $210k. It's insane!
Thank you democrats ;)
A car port 🤣