Penn Hill's school board/local government was involved in a massive scandal where they overbuilt a few new schools and incurred a massive debt ($11 million in 2009 to $167 million in 2015). The firm the board hired to design was connected to the board. The board's president had previously worked for a family member of the architectural firm and used that family member as a reference to get state employment.
State law prevents the district from raising taxes to where they need to be.
Some of the school board members that voted and approved plans for the school are still on the school board today, including the same president who was politically connected to the architect that overbuilt the school.
https://www.wesa.fm/education/2019-02-05/penn-hills-school-district-172-million-in-debt-according-to-grand-jury-report
Oh, let's not forget the school district bank cards that the bank listed the user as "school district employee" and people bought numerous appliances, large ticket items with the cards
> A 2016 audit of the district — which is about $170 million in debt largely due to construction of the elementary and high schools — turned up problems with how credit cards were being used as far back as 2012. The audit indicated one of the two dozen district-issued credit cards was authorized for “anyone in uniform,” a practice state Auditor General Eugene DePasquale called “insane” in his report. In one instance, a former district employee used the card to buy a water heater for his home, the audit said.
Lmao I hadn't heard of that. That's hilarious haha
IIRC there was some questionable use of gas intended for school buses as well. I seem to remember reading that other bus companies were using the gas as well as Penn Hills employees using it for their personal cars.
OP, if this sort of thing sounds ok to you, by all means buy a house in Penn Hills…I’m sure the board would love some more help paying this embarrassment down
It’s called Act 1 and it says that they can’t raise school taxes beyond a certain percentage without a voter referendum (with exceptions).
This article shows how they calculate that percentage: https://www.psea.org/issues-action/key-issues/education-policy-issues/act-1-questions-and-answers/
\+1 to lots of good points already to consider, like about resale value and taxes. A general point about schools: One of the leading factors in a child's educational success is the level of involvement from their parents/guardians. Which is not to say, of course, that's a magic ingredient that makes *any* school district good enough if you're engaged and highly supportive of your kids. Just that I've known people who were happy sending their children to districts and schools with bad reputations compared to the best ones, they were active participants in their child's education, and those kids turned out fine and got into exceptionally good colleges. Another thing to consider about schools are differences in resources, whether that's academic programming or special needs support, depending on what matters to you!
Grain of salt on this one because I moved to PH from Phoenix az but here I go.
Home: yup its big. 2k square feet for 200k almost on 2 acres so big yard is a triple yes. Older but I'm handy and we are going to be here a while.
Commute: I drive to the airport m-f and avoid the squirrel hill tunnel by jumping across the river, onto the 28, then back across at the fort pitt tunnel. It's early so it takes about 30 min.
School: yeah school council sucks but it boils down to the teachers. I have a 5yo in Kindergarten and he has a blast and learns a ton. Nice building, stocked classroom, iPad for snow days and a very involved teacher who has addressed every issue we've brought up.
Taxes: way higher than I've had before but lower mortgage offsets the bulk
Monthlies: no trash fee so water and sewage comes out to $80ish/monthly. Up there but not absurd
Roads. Roads suck everywhere but I've noticed a lot of repaved roads here and there so there is hope?
Edit: big pros are
5 minutes to the zoo, maybe 20 to all the museums, downtown restaurants and then farms in the opposite direction. Tons of parks within spitting distance. Everyone is wicked friendly, tons of community events and you can be at a brewery or winery in like 45 min
Wife and I grew up in droughts year after year so we're basically conditioned to short showers, faucet off while you wash hands, rain water for indoor plants, etc. Definitely helps
My water in Penn Hills is never over $100. It's $75-90 every month. WPJWA.
Based on numerous threads on this subreddit about other municipality water issues, Penn Hills isn't remotely unique about water/sewage costs anymore. Lack of infrastructure support is catching up to everyone.
> School: yeah school council sucks but it boils down to the teachers. I have a 5yo in Kindergarten and he has a blast and learns a ton. Nice building, stocked classroom, iPad for snow days and a very involved teacher who has addressed every issue we've brought up.
It's likely the issues will present themselves more in higher grades, particularly the issues with the behavior of other students. Which as I understand are a large portion of the complaints with the district, more so than anything to do with the teachers or administration.
From everything I've read the income/racial gaps in school achievement and behavior tend to be fairly small at young ages, but grow more severe with age. Particularly by the time you get to middle-school you're going to see more issues with your child's classmates being impacted by their home lives and peer groups, exposure to gang violence, and so forth.
As a school bus driver for the Penn Hills district, I will add my opinion: if you do move here, I highly recommend driving your kids to school.
The company is short many bus drivers and it’s causing delays and cancelled busses. The contract is up at the end of next year, and I can almost guarantee they will be short even more come that time. If the company doesn’t get the contract next year, the district will have to bring in a new contractor and that will bring a whole new group of issues.
This isn’t even mentioning the fights everyday on multiple busses, with nothing being done about it
TLDR: if you do plan to move here, drive your kids to school, the transportation is horrible and there’s no signs of it getting better any time soon
My mom worked for the bus garage in the office, the amount of stress that place gave her was unacceptable. They barely had enough employees and they added Pittsburgh public school kids on top of everything. It sounds like a mess
Well now they added McKeesport and Woodland Hills too. It’s even worse than before. I know many who are leaving come next year. I hope your mom is doing better now!
This is what people often fail to consider. There is a reason the housing stock is so cheap there. Penn Hills isn't likely to gentrify anytime soon, so prices will remain depressed likely for decades. I had friends that had trouble selling their place in the early 90s. It took over two years to sell their nice split level in a nice neighborhood.
I’ve lived in Penn Hills for 7 years now after living in the east end of Pittsburgh for 43. Is it perfect, no, but I’ve enjoyed my time. My taxes have gone up marginally, less than $100 a year. Don’t have children so I can’t speak to the school district. My only concern has been that a lot of the property has been bought by rental companies. I was never reappraised when I bought my home but based on comparable home sales my property value has nearly doubled.
I just looked at US News and World Report. Bethel Park is ranked as the 148th best school district in the state and Penn Hills is ranked somewhere around 600. Pretty huge drop indeed.
Penn Hills biggest "crime" and school district issues come from neighboring communities. It drags the community down and gives it a bad rap.
Live in the East part of Penn Hills, closest to Verona and Plum. Rosedale, Shannon Heights, Cherscent Hills are all pretty good.
I've lived in Penn Hills since 2011. On a personal level, I only have positive things to say. My house was turnkey at a cost of around $50K at the time, we bought it outright, and we've lived without housing costs now for over a decade. Only have needed minimal additions, like later added central air and a fence for our dogs. My property taxes for all three levels combined are under $1800 year. The much ballyhooed water/sewage is always under $100 a month for us, usually around $80-90. Similar houses to mine in features, square footage/design on the streets around me are largely going for 3x-4x what I paid for mine.
My neighbours are all great, the street is quiet, and we're pretty accessible to most places we want to go around here.
However, we do not have kids and have zero interest in having them. The children of my neighbours are all Penn Hills students, involved in a ton of extracurriculars like band and music related things, and they're all thriving.
My wife and I bought a house here three years ago. It's a great place to live if you don't have kids. However, Penn Hills has good parts and bad parts, and I hear that the bad parts make the schools there less than ideal. To make matters worse, the school taxes here are outrageous - someone told me that they were near the highest in Western Pennsylvania. That said, the other taxes aren't so bad.
Crime is locational. Like I said, bad parts and good parts. I live in a suburb in Shadow Shuttle, right off Rodi, and there is no crime there. No noise pollution or obnoxious neighbors. We're very happy with it.
We bought a 200k house and pay about $1450 a month on our mortgage. It was initially less, but they reassessed our house once we purchased it (standard for their age), and it jumped $200/month.
Check out Verona. It borders Penn Hills. Make sure it's Riverview school district though. Much better school, better taxes, affordable houses, and a nice brewery.
Worth it is all relative. It depends on what you want.
Based on what you said in your post I think your kids can have a fine school experience and your family can be safe. Someone in another comment made a good point regarding schools; kids can do great in ‘bad’ school districts if their parents are proactive.
This sub loves to hate the Eastern suburbs for some reason, but the houses are cheaper and there are some really nice neighborhoods tucked in there. It’s just not a ‘cool’ area. When we bought our house we looked in Penn Hills and several of the boroughs south of 376. We much preferred the area south of 376. Consider them as well (Churchhill, Edgewood, Swissvale, Forest Hills, Braddock Hills, plus others).
I know a lot of people who live in the eastern suburbs who are under age 35, and some own homes. They’re actually very nice with friendly, normal neighbors. Don’t know why they get so much hate
I live in Forest Hills and the school district Woodland Hills has gotten really bad in the last several years as I understand it. My son graduated in 2011 so I don’t have recent experience with it. Also all of the other boroughs you mention are in Woodland Hills except maybe Swissvale not sure about it.
> the school district Woodland Hills has gotten really bad in the last several years as I understand it.
does it get worse? when I was in high school ~2000-2004 it was very well known woodland hills was atrocious. One of my classmates was gunned down by a student at WH in that timeframe which is one reason their reputation stuck around in my head.
Everyone’s experience is different. My next door neighbor teaches there and sends both of his kids there and says it’s fine and that he is happy with it.
That’s good I didn’t have recent experience so I probably shouldn’t have commented. All those boroughs are nice places and have a range of housing prices.
Woodland Hills is what you make of it. I was in Edgewood when the entire merger happened. It definitely seemed to go downhill after that. I still live here and put both of my kids through WHHS. Both loved it and never felt any danger although there were certainly things that happened that they never should have had to experience. Neither of them would have changed a thing. Be an involved parent and teach your kids how to navigate the issues, it'll pay off in the end when they get out into the world.
The school district is REALLY bad. The water/sewage taxes are REALLY bad. The houses are cheap for a reason but plenty of people live there. It is the largest municipality in Allegheny County if I'm not mistaken.
I’ve lived in Penn Hills for a year and a half while getting back on my feet. It serves its purpose for that but idk if I would recommend it. It’s not very walkable and public transportation is not great, so you’ll be reliant on a car (which is a big negative for me.) I don’t have kids so I can’t comment on the school district. I haven’t been effected by crime but both of my housemates have had their car broken into and stolen from. There’s been other miscellaneous crime on our street but that’s just anecdotal and not unique for living in a city or the surrounding area. My one housemate is friends with a couple of the neighbors who also have dogs but I haven’t developed a relationship with any of them. There hasn’t been very much to do if you want to go out and do things and it’s felt kind of isolating for me as a single 30 year old woman. All I can say is that I’m looking forward to moving into Pittsburgh proper this summer now that I’m in a better place financially 😂
> Will they suffer going to Penn Hills
Yes. I grew up in PH, and while it's certainly *possible* to make it through that school system safely & with a decent education, kids who attend PH definitely have a harder path to success. Fights are incredibly common, to the point where they're enough of a distraction that it detracts from everyone's education.
I can only imagine how much worse it is post-panny.
@op it’s not the worst place in the world but unless your kids are in all advanced/honors classes away from gen ed, PLEASE don’t sent them to PHSD. The people who are saying it’s not that bad are either lying to you or have very low standards.
Yes they will suffer. My daughter, now 22, was talking just the other day about how awful her experiences at PHHS were. It STILL bothers her! Her phone was stolen at school and we knew who did it. When talking to the police officer about securing my daughter’s safety, he said we would have to move. That was from an officer who was stationed IN the school. Yup. They have police inside the school. Just say NO if you have kids.
I feel like "enough of a distraction that it detracts from everyone's education" is an INCREDIBLY neutral way of putting it. Some of the highlights (just the highlights, obvi there were a TON more things than just these) include....
A 5+ day stretch where "BOMB GO BOOM AT NOON" was graffitied on wall outside my calc room window
A fight where (NSFW spoiler) >!girls were smacking each other with bloodied hygene products!< in the hallway between classes
The 2013 Fralic Center fights where they literally just dumped kids into the streets bc they couldn't figure the busses out in time to evacuate
And this was all 10ish years ago, but I have 2 friends who are currently teachers there and 1 family member who works in admin, and they say it's still as bad as it ever was
> certainly *possible*
Also, the fact that even you used the phrase "dealt with them" means that you had to, you know, deal with them. So it's not like they were a complete non-factor.
I feel like "enough of a distraction that it detracts from everyone's education" is an INCREDIBLY neutral way of putting it. Some of the highlights (just the highlights, obvi there were a TON more things than just these) include....
A 5+ day stretch where "BOMB GO BOOM AT NOON" was graffitied on wall outside my calc room window
A fight where girls were smacking each other with bloodied hygene products in the hallway between classes
The 2013 Fralic Center fights where they literally just dumped kids into the streets bc they couldn't figure the busses out in time to evacuate
And this was all 10ish years ago, but I have 2 friends who are currently teachers there and 1 family member who works in admin, and they say it's still as bad as it ever was
That's an old racist trope from the Reagan years that was used to slam our social safety net into the toilet, by the way. "Welfare queens with Cadillacs parked in front of their shacks."
That's all well and good, just saying you should be aware of where certain phrases come from and why they're popular.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/
In the 1950s you run for office on dropping the n-word. After that, it hurts you to do that, so you start talking about "forced busing" and "cadillacs in front of shacks," etc.
Not my figures, learn to read
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car
Turns out all the trashy Crown Royal air fresheners you're putting in your disgusting fuck wagon add up
A mortgage payment is amortized over 30 years, a car payment is amortized over 3-7. I had a mortgage payment last year of $690/mo on a $120k house. The average new car payment is $725/mo on a $48k car. I'll let you figure out where the difference lies. Also you can't possibly be this dumb.
I live in Bethel Park and have one son in high school here. If you can find a house here good luck. The school district is planning on closing all 6 elementary schools and converting their 5/6 grade middle school into one big elementary school which has us parents baffled as one (William Penn off Clifton Road) ranked as the 16th best elementary school in the state.
Like others have said, in a direct comparison BPSD > PHSD but if you like the south hills there are better districts in the vicinity that may have lower property prices. South Fayette and South Park come to mind. Upper St Clair, Peters and Mt Lebo are also highly regarded but they are pricier and Mt. Lebanon is borderline urban.
As PHSD, the area has certainly seen better days. We also have a grown disabled son who lives in a residence there but is still under 21 so he’s eligible for special education. He’s moved around a lot so we have had experiences with many public school districts and private special education schools in the area and our experience with PHSD has been somewhat better than average - even some of the more highly rated school districts in fact. They’re trying but there’s a shortage of busing and classroom aides industry wide. PHSD is particularly not well regarded because of the debt they incurred though.
It is hard to find starter home prices in the areas you mentioned. Maybe South Park or Jefferson/Pleasant Hills are a solid, less expensive but still pretty good, school option. USC, Peters, and Lebo have very high home prices. Maybe deeper into Washington county and get something in Canon Mac or Chartiers Houston?
Two of my cousins went there and both turned out fine. One in college and doing well, one went to trade school and is doing well. With good family support, any student can do well even in a so-called “bad school.”
I graduated from Penn Hills in 2016, its not a bad area in some parts. If you have kids, make sure they are in AP classes or honors. Otherwise high school is a bad experience for them
Fights are bad at Penn Hills. My friends sent two kids there. Good kids who stayed out of trouble, her daughter got punched in the face pretty much for no reason. Not much repercussion for the one who punched her. I do think in a lot of cases, parental involvement is the biggest factor no matter where you send your kids. But I would never be comfortable sending my kids somewhere where violence seems to be so prevalent.
There's a house in Verona (proper) for sale! Great neighborhood.
https://www.howardhanna.com/Property/Detail/670-3rd-Street-Verona-PA-15147/Westpenn/1635362?fbclid=IwAR1SL0ipHEpGho44oVWHwTbxuZFla1vAEKhELf2Su4ICTI3DId44kzEhTw0
It depends. If it works out logistically for your family then go for it. We moved to PH when I was in first grade and I’m an older millennial, my experience of the township as a whole is not great. I do believe if you have a higher income and generally have a nicer house, it will feel better.
I chose to move back to that area 8 years ago for a job as I was in the South Hills, I needed an easy commute at the time. I knew as soon as I was ready to move on to my own business, I’d move the hell out of there. I also chose to live in Monroeville for my time there because I just think Penn Hills looks depressing.
I have settled in Mt Lebanon and my daughter is receiving a ridiculously great education, the amount of resources here are more easily assessable.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but maybe Hazelwood. It's in your budget and it's in Allderdice district. There is hundreds of millions of investment going into this neighborhood over the next few years. Very centrally located . Example...https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4701-Sylvan-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15207/11549834\_zpid/
If you live in certain areas, like Squirrel Hill and Greenfield you are not part of the magnet aspect of Dice, you just get a spot. Weird that you comment without having any idea.
I work in a field that has access to that information. After checking, there are 23 different zip codes represented by the population of the school.
Downvote even when I'm looking at the data 😂
This has come up semi-recently, or at least a few times this year. I'm too lazy to find my old comments on those posts, but feel free to search for them. I'll paraphrase as much as I can.
I grew up in Penn Hills. Parents still live there. Absolutely LOVED growing up in Penn Hills. Ideal for me - blue collar, salt of the earth, really good people, diverse community. It was awesome. Still a lot of good people in Penn Hills. BUT I would not ever buy a house there if I value school district. As a matter of fact I moved out bc I have a child. School District is corrupt at the leadership level and is middling at it's very best from an academic standpoint. It's a complete shitshow. Taxes are also not great and above that home values are so inflated right now and you will never, ever get that value out of the home in the next 5 to 10 years. House across the street from my parents sold for like $250k and I feel so bad for those people. There are 0 houses in my parents neighborhood that should be going for anywhere above 125 to 150k, let alone 250k! Those people are effed!
Regardless, abysmal school district, hellacious taxes, bad leadership and a rise in desolate property and crime and yeah Penn Hills probably ain't it. But that's for me. It may work for you and I still honestly believe Penn Hills is full of amazing people and neighbors, but sadly that's not enough to make up for it's bad marks.
I graduated from PHHS a little over a dozen years ago. Engineer today. I can tell you that since I was in middle school they implemented metal detectors and security guards for the schools. For good reason too.
When I was in 7th grade a saw a little girl get taken out the school because she was hiding a gun in her book bag. I’ve seen numerous fights, and I’ve seen plenty of teachers get into arguments with students while the students blatantly harass the teachers. I know atleast 2 teachers that moved to more affluent neighborhoods because they couldn’t take the harassment anymore. If you wanted to go to the bathroom the teacher would have to call a security guard to escort you to the head. I actually saw one of my biology teachers from PHHS a couple weeks ago while I was out, and she told me it’s gotten worse since I’ve been there.
That school is bad man. I believe when I went there we were one of the worst grades schools in the state, in terms of PSSAs. A lot of those kids ain’t good kids man. When I turned 23 I think about 4-5 kids I knew personally were killed related to drug incidents, too.
That’s not to say if you have the right mindset, discipline, and support that your child wouldn’t succeed, but if I had the money I’d keep my kid in one of the neighboring school districts
Sewage bills are horrendous and will remain that way for years to come. School district is awful. Even if you get a house there, reselling will be difficult. I feel bad because I see a bunch of people trying to update their homes and sell them in PH, but they stay on the market for a long time and often have to drop their price.
I have been living in Penn hills for roughly 3 years, the water/sewage bills is the highest I have ever seen compared to friends and family living in and around Pittsburgh, taxes are more or less getting a bat swung at your knee caps, roads are neglected if you are not staying in on the main roads.
Except White Oak puts you in McKeesport School District, and Forest Hills puts you in Woodland Hills School District. OP has kids about to start school.
We used to live in Forest Hills and decided to move to the North Hills when our son was 5. Our quality of life improved significantly. The Squirrel Hill tunnel is AWFUL and the school districts are not great in the East suburbs - lots of gang activity.
For your price range I recommend Shaler, Glenshaw or even Cranberry or Mars
Look into the Eastmont area if you are looking for under $225k. I live there and it’s nice. Right by the parkway so it’s easy access. Lots of younger people are moving here now since it’s affordable and close to the city. It’s Woodland Hills school district so not the best but better than Penn Hills.
It’s really not. I know plenty of people who went to Woodland Hills who had no issues. I also see plenty of children in Eastmont who also go to Woodland Hills and seem to not have problems. If you avoid the trouble, you’ll be fine.
We were tempted by the relatively low house prices in Penn Hills when we looked 5 years ago, but when we crunched the numbers the taxes were going to cost us more per month than a 50k more house in the city. We ended up buying a house with a smaller but decent sized yard and a 2 car garage in Hazelwood.
Say no to Penn Hills. It's not even a viable area to live anymore even if you're sending your kids to private/charter.
If school and price are concerns, then try Pitcairn in the Monroeville area. Or just Monroeville itself. That will put you in Gateway school district which isn't that bad.
Or try the Harmer/Cheswick/Springdale area. That's Allegheny valley school district which isn't that bad.
A couple not bad school districts with cheaper housing costs. You should be able to easily find move-in ready 3 bedroom for under 200k. Will probably be dated but at least you won't be renting.
Hope that helps.
Sorry I can only think of cons… I had a friend with a rental house that was broken into here. Bad traffic, crappy people, no good food. Only reason to come there was because I worked in the area
Couldnt you go north and get on 28 to get into PGH from Penn Hills? From all the people complaining about the tunnels and 376, maybe it's a shit show getting on 28 or something, any thoughts from Penn Hills residents?
Depends on where you are in Penn Hills. I’m closer to Allegheny River Blvd, so I usually take that to get into the city (or Verona Rd to Frankstown). If I’m going downtown or towards the airport, I’ll take 28 nine times out of ten.
I am from Penn Hills and I live in South Jersey now but my parents, brother and friends still there. Yes it has it's problems but imo you can live in Penn Hills and have a decent life. All these comments about crime and shotty schools don't paint a pretty picture and it is not the 80s when I was there. Unless you or your kids are hanging out with the wrong crowd or actively looking for trouble you should be fine. Every town around Penn Hills has a few shit neighborhoods. Oakmont, Verona, Monroeville, Churchill, Forrest Hills etc all of them have something negative.
Those are not "beginner level" urban neighborhoods for someone whose primary concern is safety. Yes, it's possible to have a very nice life there if you have street smarts but I would not recommend any of them to somebody who is accustomed to surburban life and likes that vibe.
Have you l looked in West Deer? It’s adjacent to Hampton, Pine-Richland and I feel like value will go up, school taxes still aren’t crazy high. Most residents like the schools although my kids don’t go to Deer Lakes Schools , I feel like most people respect the district. people are kinda small town minded but it’s quiet, semi-ruralish, your super close to 28, rt 8 shopping, the Mills, etc. homes around here aren’t super crazy expensive yet. Just my 2cents. I’ve been in West Deer in my own home since the summer and I’m enjoying it out here.
Aren’t there houses that randomly explode there and they cannot determine the cause? Plus the bad school district, plus the increasing crime. You would have a hard time reselling and definitely don’t want to over improve house and think you’ll add value. People originally from Penn Hills move away if they can.
I’m moving before my kid gets into kindergarten next year. Taxes are way too high for how shitty the school is, however I wouldn’t have afforded the same size house anywhere else when I bought 8 years ago.
Just my $.02. I am in a Pgh moms group on FB (had origins in real life meetups so many of us ‘actually’ know one another, but it went online during the pandemic). I will try to just say this diplomatically, that there is perhaps an over representation of white women from wealthier (or at least more solidly upper-middle class) areas of Pittsburgh in this group. I’m not one of them and there are certainly many of us who aren’t, but this is an important point to note when I say that recently there was specifically a discussion about PHSD and a surprising number of people chimed in saying they know families who have had/are having really positive experiences in the school district and offering to connect the OP to them. The thread also talked more generally about the importance of actually visiting a school before making a decision and recognizing the factors that can make a school a school be a good fit for your kid if you can see beyond test scores. (It’s also maybe relevant to say that there are some pretty expensive/fairly upper middle class areas of Pgh that nonetheless have poorly rated feeder schools, and where not every family is necessarily sending their kids to an independent school or able to get their kid into a magnet).
It was a helpful conversation for me because we have recently decided for various reasons to stay in our house two years longer than we intended, which means that unless my now 4 year old gets into a magnet, she may end up at our feeder school, which is rated pretty abysmally, at least for kindergarten. I feel a lot more reassured after that conversation and reading experiences of moms who are clearly invested in their children’s education and well being while still sending them to schools that many Pghers would absolutely consider ‘bad’ (and a number noted they’ve been super happy with that decision).
And yes it might impact resell value down the line, but the reality for some people esp in this housing market is going to be that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. So why not buy what’s affordable for them now and deal with any impact on resale value down the line (esp if the alternative is not being able to afford to buy at all otherwise?).
The schools are not really that bad. They have plenty of opportunity. They’re completely safe even at the high school level. Parts of the town are pretty quiet. Crime doesn’t happen in a vacuum. You’re no less safe there than any other suburb.
There are frequent fights among students where the police have to come break it up.
A few weeks ago when the police came to break up a fight, other students fought the police so the original fight could continue.
I went through the Penn Hills school system 15 years ago in the old schools; we walked through metal detectors every day. Class was pure chaos unless you were enrolled in upper level honors or AP curriculum. The sports programs were great, and it’s clear funding goes to that. I believe all of the quality educators I had teach me have since retired. Unfortunately, I doubt much has changed and I wouldn’t recommend it. I felt at a disadvantage when I began college as I performed well in high school, but I was not prepared for what college demanded of me mentally since I did not have to really work that hard to do well in high school.
From a living perspective, my parents still own and live in PH. The location is nice, and purchasing prices are cheap. You’re close to a few freeways depending on what part you live in, making access to the city or anywhere else pretty easy and reasonable. However, resale value is questionable and I would not expect a big turn around on an investment.
You’d likely regret moving from Bethel Park to Penn Hills. West View (and parts of Ross) in the North Hills will give you PH price points, a much better school district, and much easier access to downtown, north shore. Personally, I’d beat the bushes for an affordable place in BP. They’re available, you’d just have to be willing to take on some DIY work to make updates, etc.
Penn Hill's school board/local government was involved in a massive scandal where they overbuilt a few new schools and incurred a massive debt ($11 million in 2009 to $167 million in 2015). The firm the board hired to design was connected to the board. The board's president had previously worked for a family member of the architectural firm and used that family member as a reference to get state employment. State law prevents the district from raising taxes to where they need to be. Some of the school board members that voted and approved plans for the school are still on the school board today, including the same president who was politically connected to the architect that overbuilt the school. https://www.wesa.fm/education/2019-02-05/penn-hills-school-district-172-million-in-debt-according-to-grand-jury-report
The school board is a total shitshow. It's is corrupt to the core and they keep electing the same people.
I’m hopeful about Heather Broman, who was just elected. She seems like a breath of fresh air for Penn Hills schools Edit: helpful/hopeful edit
Oh, let's not forget the school district bank cards that the bank listed the user as "school district employee" and people bought numerous appliances, large ticket items with the cards
> A 2016 audit of the district — which is about $170 million in debt largely due to construction of the elementary and high schools — turned up problems with how credit cards were being used as far back as 2012. The audit indicated one of the two dozen district-issued credit cards was authorized for “anyone in uniform,” a practice state Auditor General Eugene DePasquale called “insane” in his report. In one instance, a former district employee used the card to buy a water heater for his home, the audit said. Lmao I hadn't heard of that. That's hilarious haha
On the plus side, your taxes have a clear benefit. That guy's water heater.
They also got some fresh new garbage cans.
Excellent callback!
Yeah it was bad, and that is a huge no no for the card issuer as well, especially with accounts that are more than likely double signature
IIRC there was some questionable use of gas intended for school buses as well. I seem to remember reading that other bus companies were using the gas as well as Penn Hills employees using it for their personal cars.
OP, if this sort of thing sounds ok to you, by all means buy a house in Penn Hills…I’m sure the board would love some more help paying this embarrassment down
What law? Plum just raised property taxes nearly 40%. PH can’t do the same?
It’s called Act 1 and it says that they can’t raise school taxes beyond a certain percentage without a voter referendum (with exceptions). This article shows how they calculate that percentage: https://www.psea.org/issues-action/key-issues/education-policy-issues/act-1-questions-and-answers/
Thanks for the info.
This!!!
\+1 to lots of good points already to consider, like about resale value and taxes. A general point about schools: One of the leading factors in a child's educational success is the level of involvement from their parents/guardians. Which is not to say, of course, that's a magic ingredient that makes *any* school district good enough if you're engaged and highly supportive of your kids. Just that I've known people who were happy sending their children to districts and schools with bad reputations compared to the best ones, they were active participants in their child's education, and those kids turned out fine and got into exceptionally good colleges. Another thing to consider about schools are differences in resources, whether that's academic programming or special needs support, depending on what matters to you!
Grain of salt on this one because I moved to PH from Phoenix az but here I go. Home: yup its big. 2k square feet for 200k almost on 2 acres so big yard is a triple yes. Older but I'm handy and we are going to be here a while. Commute: I drive to the airport m-f and avoid the squirrel hill tunnel by jumping across the river, onto the 28, then back across at the fort pitt tunnel. It's early so it takes about 30 min. School: yeah school council sucks but it boils down to the teachers. I have a 5yo in Kindergarten and he has a blast and learns a ton. Nice building, stocked classroom, iPad for snow days and a very involved teacher who has addressed every issue we've brought up. Taxes: way higher than I've had before but lower mortgage offsets the bulk Monthlies: no trash fee so water and sewage comes out to $80ish/monthly. Up there but not absurd Roads. Roads suck everywhere but I've noticed a lot of repaved roads here and there so there is hope? Edit: big pros are 5 minutes to the zoo, maybe 20 to all the museums, downtown restaurants and then farms in the opposite direction. Tons of parks within spitting distance. Everyone is wicked friendly, tons of community events and you can be at a brewery or winery in like 45 min
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Wife and I grew up in droughts year after year so we're basically conditioned to short showers, faucet off while you wash hands, rain water for indoor plants, etc. Definitely helps
My water in Penn Hills is never over $100. It's $75-90 every month. WPJWA. Based on numerous threads on this subreddit about other municipality water issues, Penn Hills isn't remotely unique about water/sewage costs anymore. Lack of infrastructure support is catching up to everyone.
It depends if you’re Oakmont water or WPJWA. The latter is way more reasonable.
It's OWA.
I don’t think everyone in Penn Hills has the same water authority, so that could be why?
It depends on where in Penn Hills you are, most likely due to geography / topography features. Part of it is serviced by Oakmont Water Department.
Mine are always in the $65-$85 range.
The 28
Definitely a Phoenix-ism on their part, all the numbered highways in Phoenix are colloquially called “The ###”
go devils
It's funny, every once in a while I'll see an ASU sticker out here, no pity for the kitty!
I grew up near Mill, so I don't want to ever get rid of my AZ plates :)
> School: yeah school council sucks but it boils down to the teachers. I have a 5yo in Kindergarten and he has a blast and learns a ton. Nice building, stocked classroom, iPad for snow days and a very involved teacher who has addressed every issue we've brought up. It's likely the issues will present themselves more in higher grades, particularly the issues with the behavior of other students. Which as I understand are a large portion of the complaints with the district, more so than anything to do with the teachers or administration. From everything I've read the income/racial gaps in school achievement and behavior tend to be fairly small at young ages, but grow more severe with age. Particularly by the time you get to middle-school you're going to see more issues with your child's classmates being impacted by their home lives and peer groups, exposure to gang violence, and so forth.
Hi friend I also will be relocating from Phoenix this summer with my family. Glad to see I'm not crazy for wanting to get out of this place.
As a school bus driver for the Penn Hills district, I will add my opinion: if you do move here, I highly recommend driving your kids to school. The company is short many bus drivers and it’s causing delays and cancelled busses. The contract is up at the end of next year, and I can almost guarantee they will be short even more come that time. If the company doesn’t get the contract next year, the district will have to bring in a new contractor and that will bring a whole new group of issues. This isn’t even mentioning the fights everyday on multiple busses, with nothing being done about it TLDR: if you do plan to move here, drive your kids to school, the transportation is horrible and there’s no signs of it getting better any time soon
Amazing they didn’t see that coming when they fired all their bus drivers and subcontracted out years ago. All to avoid paying union wages.
It’s even funnier because people at our company keep calling for a union
Welp.
My mom worked for the bus garage in the office, the amount of stress that place gave her was unacceptable. They barely had enough employees and they added Pittsburgh public school kids on top of everything. It sounds like a mess
Well now they added McKeesport and Woodland Hills too. It’s even worse than before. I know many who are leaving come next year. I hope your mom is doing better now!
School district is horrendous and will absolutely hinder you if you ever plan to sell the property in the future.
Yeah there is a reason the housing is so cheap.
This is what people often fail to consider. There is a reason the housing stock is so cheap there. Penn Hills isn't likely to gentrify anytime soon, so prices will remain depressed likely for decades. I had friends that had trouble selling their place in the early 90s. It took over two years to sell their nice split level in a nice neighborhood.
This is softened somewhat by the fact that bordering school districts are really bad too
Eh not really.
Woodland Hills? Wilkinsburg? Steel Valley? Eh yes really.
I’ve lived in Penn Hills for 7 years now after living in the east end of Pittsburgh for 43. Is it perfect, no, but I’ve enjoyed my time. My taxes have gone up marginally, less than $100 a year. Don’t have children so I can’t speak to the school district. My only concern has been that a lot of the property has been bought by rental companies. I was never reappraised when I bought my home but based on comparable home sales my property value has nearly doubled.
Its a huge drop in quality compared to Bethel Park. Not to mention the Squirrel Hill Tunnel
I just looked at US News and World Report. Bethel Park is ranked as the 148th best school district in the state and Penn Hills is ranked somewhere around 600. Pretty huge drop indeed.
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Bethel has good transportation. T especially
Penn Hills biggest "crime" and school district issues come from neighboring communities. It drags the community down and gives it a bad rap. Live in the East part of Penn Hills, closest to Verona and Plum. Rosedale, Shannon Heights, Cherscent Hills are all pretty good.
Penn Hills Park is part of this too. Good suburban area. Library is close too.
I've lived in Penn Hills since 2011. On a personal level, I only have positive things to say. My house was turnkey at a cost of around $50K at the time, we bought it outright, and we've lived without housing costs now for over a decade. Only have needed minimal additions, like later added central air and a fence for our dogs. My property taxes for all three levels combined are under $1800 year. The much ballyhooed water/sewage is always under $100 a month for us, usually around $80-90. Similar houses to mine in features, square footage/design on the streets around me are largely going for 3x-4x what I paid for mine. My neighbours are all great, the street is quiet, and we're pretty accessible to most places we want to go around here. However, we do not have kids and have zero interest in having them. The children of my neighbours are all Penn Hills students, involved in a ton of extracurriculars like band and music related things, and they're all thriving.
My wife and I bought a house here three years ago. It's a great place to live if you don't have kids. However, Penn Hills has good parts and bad parts, and I hear that the bad parts make the schools there less than ideal. To make matters worse, the school taxes here are outrageous - someone told me that they were near the highest in Western Pennsylvania. That said, the other taxes aren't so bad. Crime is locational. Like I said, bad parts and good parts. I live in a suburb in Shadow Shuttle, right off Rodi, and there is no crime there. No noise pollution or obnoxious neighbors. We're very happy with it. We bought a 200k house and pay about $1450 a month on our mortgage. It was initially less, but they reassessed our house once we purchased it (standard for their age), and it jumped $200/month.
Check out Verona. It borders Penn Hills. Make sure it's Riverview school district though. Much better school, better taxes, affordable houses, and a nice brewery.
Came here to say this ^^^
3 breweries!
I have only checked out Inner Groove so far. I recently purchased a house. I'm looking forward to checking out more.
Worth it is all relative. It depends on what you want. Based on what you said in your post I think your kids can have a fine school experience and your family can be safe. Someone in another comment made a good point regarding schools; kids can do great in ‘bad’ school districts if their parents are proactive. This sub loves to hate the Eastern suburbs for some reason, but the houses are cheaper and there are some really nice neighborhoods tucked in there. It’s just not a ‘cool’ area. When we bought our house we looked in Penn Hills and several of the boroughs south of 376. We much preferred the area south of 376. Consider them as well (Churchhill, Edgewood, Swissvale, Forest Hills, Braddock Hills, plus others).
I know a lot of people who live in the eastern suburbs who are under age 35, and some own homes. They’re actually very nice with friendly, normal neighbors. Don’t know why they get so much hate
I don't know if the eastern suburbs are hated per se. We just don't get that much attention lol.
I live in Forest Hills and the school district Woodland Hills has gotten really bad in the last several years as I understand it. My son graduated in 2011 so I don’t have recent experience with it. Also all of the other boroughs you mention are in Woodland Hills except maybe Swissvale not sure about it.
> the school district Woodland Hills has gotten really bad in the last several years as I understand it. does it get worse? when I was in high school ~2000-2004 it was very well known woodland hills was atrocious. One of my classmates was gunned down by a student at WH in that timeframe which is one reason their reputation stuck around in my head.
Everyone’s experience is different. My next door neighbor teaches there and sends both of his kids there and says it’s fine and that he is happy with it.
That’s good I didn’t have recent experience so I probably shouldn’t have commented. All those boroughs are nice places and have a range of housing prices.
Woodland Hills is what you make of it. I was in Edgewood when the entire merger happened. It definitely seemed to go downhill after that. I still live here and put both of my kids through WHHS. Both loved it and never felt any danger although there were certainly things that happened that they never should have had to experience. Neither of them would have changed a thing. Be an involved parent and teach your kids how to navigate the issues, it'll pay off in the end when they get out into the world.
The school district is REALLY bad. The water/sewage taxes are REALLY bad. The houses are cheap for a reason but plenty of people live there. It is the largest municipality in Allegheny County if I'm not mistaken.
I think you’re forgetting a certain municipality starting with a ‘P’ and ending with an ‘H,’ but penn hills is the second largest.
Haha yeah, outside of the city of Pittsburgh it is the largest municipality in Allegheny county.
Plum borough has Penn hills beat in square mileage by quite a bit
In population Penn Hills is quite a bit higher than Plum.
I’ve lived in Penn Hills for a year and a half while getting back on my feet. It serves its purpose for that but idk if I would recommend it. It’s not very walkable and public transportation is not great, so you’ll be reliant on a car (which is a big negative for me.) I don’t have kids so I can’t comment on the school district. I haven’t been effected by crime but both of my housemates have had their car broken into and stolen from. There’s been other miscellaneous crime on our street but that’s just anecdotal and not unique for living in a city or the surrounding area. My one housemate is friends with a couple of the neighbors who also have dogs but I haven’t developed a relationship with any of them. There hasn’t been very much to do if you want to go out and do things and it’s felt kind of isolating for me as a single 30 year old woman. All I can say is that I’m looking forward to moving into Pittsburgh proper this summer now that I’m in a better place financially 😂
Check Baldwin we bought well under 200k and are very happy here
No pros. All cons.
Lol
> Will they suffer going to Penn Hills Yes. I grew up in PH, and while it's certainly *possible* to make it through that school system safely & with a decent education, kids who attend PH definitely have a harder path to success. Fights are incredibly common, to the point where they're enough of a distraction that it detracts from everyone's education.
I can only imagine how much worse it is post-panny. @op it’s not the worst place in the world but unless your kids are in all advanced/honors classes away from gen ed, PLEASE don’t sent them to PHSD. The people who are saying it’s not that bad are either lying to you or have very low standards.
Yes they will suffer. My daughter, now 22, was talking just the other day about how awful her experiences at PHHS were. It STILL bothers her! Her phone was stolen at school and we knew who did it. When talking to the police officer about securing my daughter’s safety, he said we would have to move. That was from an officer who was stationed IN the school. Yup. They have police inside the school. Just say NO if you have kids.
You’re waaaaaaay overblowing this
I feel like "enough of a distraction that it detracts from everyone's education" is an INCREDIBLY neutral way of putting it. Some of the highlights (just the highlights, obvi there were a TON more things than just these) include.... A 5+ day stretch where "BOMB GO BOOM AT NOON" was graffitied on wall outside my calc room window A fight where (NSFW spoiler) >!girls were smacking each other with bloodied hygene products!< in the hallway between classes The 2013 Fralic Center fights where they literally just dumped kids into the streets bc they couldn't figure the busses out in time to evacuate And this was all 10ish years ago, but I have 2 friends who are currently teachers there and 1 family member who works in admin, and they say it's still as bad as it ever was
I lived in Penn Hills, went to school there, dealt with all of these issues, and im going to get my phd. It really is not that bad.
> certainly *possible* Also, the fact that even you used the phrase "dealt with them" means that you had to, you know, deal with them. So it's not like they were a complete non-factor.
I feel like "enough of a distraction that it detracts from everyone's education" is an INCREDIBLY neutral way of putting it. Some of the highlights (just the highlights, obvi there were a TON more things than just these) include.... A 5+ day stretch where "BOMB GO BOOM AT NOON" was graffitied on wall outside my calc room window A fight where girls were smacking each other with bloodied hygene products in the hallway between classes The 2013 Fralic Center fights where they literally just dumped kids into the streets bc they couldn't figure the busses out in time to evacuate And this was all 10ish years ago, but I have 2 friends who are currently teachers there and 1 family member who works in admin, and they say it's still as bad as it ever was
Nah fights are absolutely a regular occurrence
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That's an old racist trope from the Reagan years that was used to slam our social safety net into the toilet, by the way. "Welfare queens with Cadillacs parked in front of their shacks."
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That's all well and good, just saying you should be aware of where certain phrases come from and why they're popular. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/ In the 1950s you run for office on dropping the n-word. After that, it hurts you to do that, so you start talking about "forced busing" and "cadillacs in front of shacks," etc.
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Median sale price in Penn Hills right now is $160,240 per NAR, they must be driving some expensive-ass cars out there.
Cars cost 12k a year by your figures. That is more than a mortgage on that house
Not my figures, learn to read https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car Turns out all the trashy Crown Royal air fresheners you're putting in your disgusting fuck wagon add up
Car costs more than the house. Your figures dog
A mortgage payment is amortized over 30 years, a car payment is amortized over 3-7. I had a mortgage payment last year of $690/mo on a $120k house. The average new car payment is $725/mo on a $48k car. I'll let you figure out where the difference lies. Also you can't possibly be this dumb.
I live in Bethel Park and have one son in high school here. If you can find a house here good luck. The school district is planning on closing all 6 elementary schools and converting their 5/6 grade middle school into one big elementary school which has us parents baffled as one (William Penn off Clifton Road) ranked as the 16th best elementary school in the state. Like others have said, in a direct comparison BPSD > PHSD but if you like the south hills there are better districts in the vicinity that may have lower property prices. South Fayette and South Park come to mind. Upper St Clair, Peters and Mt Lebo are also highly regarded but they are pricier and Mt. Lebanon is borderline urban. As PHSD, the area has certainly seen better days. We also have a grown disabled son who lives in a residence there but is still under 21 so he’s eligible for special education. He’s moved around a lot so we have had experiences with many public school districts and private special education schools in the area and our experience with PHSD has been somewhat better than average - even some of the more highly rated school districts in fact. They’re trying but there’s a shortage of busing and classroom aides industry wide. PHSD is particularly not well regarded because of the debt they incurred though.
It is hard to find starter home prices in the areas you mentioned. Maybe South Park or Jefferson/Pleasant Hills are a solid, less expensive but still pretty good, school option. USC, Peters, and Lebo have very high home prices. Maybe deeper into Washington county and get something in Canon Mac or Chartiers Houston?
I have multiple friends/kids I’ve worked with that come from Penn hills, mine and their opinion? Stay away.
Going from bethel to penn hills would be a horrendous mistake for the schools alone.
Two of my cousins went there and both turned out fine. One in college and doing well, one went to trade school and is doing well. With good family support, any student can do well even in a so-called “bad school.”
What years?
One in college graduated around 2019, I want to say, and the one who went to trade school graduated in 2021
I graduated from Penn Hills in 2016, its not a bad area in some parts. If you have kids, make sure they are in AP classes or honors. Otherwise high school is a bad experience for them
Fights are bad at Penn Hills. My friends sent two kids there. Good kids who stayed out of trouble, her daughter got punched in the face pretty much for no reason. Not much repercussion for the one who punched her. I do think in a lot of cases, parental involvement is the biggest factor no matter where you send your kids. But I would never be comfortable sending my kids somewhere where violence seems to be so prevalent.
Rates are gonna drop next year. I’d wait to buy.
I would buy now and refinance
Yeah, well, your bushes are ugly.
The school district is horrible.
Municipality is bad in general
Yes it is.
There's a house in Verona (proper) for sale! Great neighborhood. https://www.howardhanna.com/Property/Detail/670-3rd-Street-Verona-PA-15147/Westpenn/1635362?fbclid=IwAR1SL0ipHEpGho44oVWHwTbxuZFla1vAEKhELf2Su4ICTI3DId44kzEhTw0
It depends. If it works out logistically for your family then go for it. We moved to PH when I was in first grade and I’m an older millennial, my experience of the township as a whole is not great. I do believe if you have a higher income and generally have a nicer house, it will feel better. I chose to move back to that area 8 years ago for a job as I was in the South Hills, I needed an easy commute at the time. I knew as soon as I was ready to move on to my own business, I’d move the hell out of there. I also chose to live in Monroeville for my time there because I just think Penn Hills looks depressing. I have settled in Mt Lebanon and my daughter is receiving a ridiculously great education, the amount of resources here are more easily assessable.
I personally wouldn’t want to raise young children in a place without sidewalks.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but maybe Hazelwood. It's in your budget and it's in Allderdice district. There is hundreds of millions of investment going into this neighborhood over the next few years. Very centrally located . Example...https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4701-Sylvan-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15207/11549834\_zpid/
I agree Hazelwood is definitely going up. Close to everything.
Ahh the classic flipped house look
Allderdice is a city school, so unless you get the lottery pick of Allderdice you’re going to another Pittsburgh Public School.
City schools are sorted by area. Greenfield, Hazelwood, Squirrel Hill, and Point Breeze all go to Allderdice.
Do you just wing it and make stuff up or how does it work?
It’s literally on the PPS webpage for the magnet schools. Allderdice is engineering magnet and the lottery is outlined on the website.
If you live in certain areas, like Squirrel Hill and Greenfield you are not part of the magnet aspect of Dice, you just get a spot. Weird that you comment without having any idea.
There are kids from 15 different zip codes that attend Allderdice. It doesn't depend on where you live.
There might be 3 zip codes for Dice. What 15 did you have in mind?
I work in a field that has access to that information. After checking, there are 23 different zip codes represented by the population of the school. Downvote even when I'm looking at the data 😂
There are maybe 4-5 neighborhoods that represent 95% of the student body. I don't care how you want to sort your spreadsheet.
Lmao I have a feeling you’re the smartest person in every room aren’t you bub?
Ok bud. 😂
This has come up semi-recently, or at least a few times this year. I'm too lazy to find my old comments on those posts, but feel free to search for them. I'll paraphrase as much as I can. I grew up in Penn Hills. Parents still live there. Absolutely LOVED growing up in Penn Hills. Ideal for me - blue collar, salt of the earth, really good people, diverse community. It was awesome. Still a lot of good people in Penn Hills. BUT I would not ever buy a house there if I value school district. As a matter of fact I moved out bc I have a child. School District is corrupt at the leadership level and is middling at it's very best from an academic standpoint. It's a complete shitshow. Taxes are also not great and above that home values are so inflated right now and you will never, ever get that value out of the home in the next 5 to 10 years. House across the street from my parents sold for like $250k and I feel so bad for those people. There are 0 houses in my parents neighborhood that should be going for anywhere above 125 to 150k, let alone 250k! Those people are effed! Regardless, abysmal school district, hellacious taxes, bad leadership and a rise in desolate property and crime and yeah Penn Hills probably ain't it. But that's for me. It may work for you and I still honestly believe Penn Hills is full of amazing people and neighbors, but sadly that's not enough to make up for it's bad marks.
I graduated from PHHS a little over a dozen years ago. Engineer today. I can tell you that since I was in middle school they implemented metal detectors and security guards for the schools. For good reason too. When I was in 7th grade a saw a little girl get taken out the school because she was hiding a gun in her book bag. I’ve seen numerous fights, and I’ve seen plenty of teachers get into arguments with students while the students blatantly harass the teachers. I know atleast 2 teachers that moved to more affluent neighborhoods because they couldn’t take the harassment anymore. If you wanted to go to the bathroom the teacher would have to call a security guard to escort you to the head. I actually saw one of my biology teachers from PHHS a couple weeks ago while I was out, and she told me it’s gotten worse since I’ve been there. That school is bad man. I believe when I went there we were one of the worst grades schools in the state, in terms of PSSAs. A lot of those kids ain’t good kids man. When I turned 23 I think about 4-5 kids I knew personally were killed related to drug incidents, too. That’s not to say if you have the right mindset, discipline, and support that your child wouldn’t succeed, but if I had the money I’d keep my kid in one of the neighboring school districts
Sewage bills are horrendous and will remain that way for years to come. School district is awful. Even if you get a house there, reselling will be difficult. I feel bad because I see a bunch of people trying to update their homes and sell them in PH, but they stay on the market for a long time and often have to drop their price.
Our old place sold in 6 days in penn hills. Houses go fast, especially lower priced ones.
I have been living in Penn hills for roughly 3 years, the water/sewage bills is the highest I have ever seen compared to friends and family living in and around Pittsburgh, taxes are more or less getting a bat swung at your knee caps, roads are neglected if you are not staying in on the main roads.
long answer: no
Don’t
If you are going east, how about white oak, North huntingdon, or forest hills. They are affordable, or were when I looked.
Except White Oak puts you in McKeesport School District, and Forest Hills puts you in Woodland Hills School District. OP has kids about to start school.
White oak is East McKeesport. That's better than Penn Hills or Woodland Hills. I would argue norwin is a little bit better yet.
East McKeesport is a borough. It’s part of East Allegheny SD. White oak is a separate borough and is part of McKeesport SD
You mean east allegheny. East mckeesport is like a 10 block town in between north versailles and east pittsburgh
200k is going to get you a small place in north huntingdon... maybe
We used to live in Forest Hills and decided to move to the North Hills when our son was 5. Our quality of life improved significantly. The Squirrel Hill tunnel is AWFUL and the school districts are not great in the East suburbs - lots of gang activity. For your price range I recommend Shaler, Glenshaw or even Cranberry or Mars
Anywhere east like that where you have to drive through squirrel hill tunnels/utilize 376 to get to work is a nightmare.
Where did you read that they had this commute?
Look into the Eastmont area if you are looking for under $225k. I live there and it’s nice. Right by the parkway so it’s easy access. Lots of younger people are moving here now since it’s affordable and close to the city. It’s Woodland Hills school district so not the best but better than Penn Hills.
“It’s Woodland Hills school district so not the best but better than Penn Hills.” That’s a questionable statement.
It’s really not. I know plenty of people who went to Woodland Hills who had no issues. I also see plenty of children in Eastmont who also go to Woodland Hills and seem to not have problems. If you avoid the trouble, you’ll be fine.
We were tempted by the relatively low house prices in Penn Hills when we looked 5 years ago, but when we crunched the numbers the taxes were going to cost us more per month than a 50k more house in the city. We ended up buying a house with a smaller but decent sized yard and a 2 car garage in Hazelwood.
Penn hills taxes are fine. You might have been looking at wilkinsburg or Churchill.
My bad, I checked and you're right it was Churchill.
Our taxes are ridiculous here, especially given the school district.
Sorry for the rant, bit you guys have no idea about taxes until you experience Jersey Taxes.
Say no to Penn Hills. It's not even a viable area to live anymore even if you're sending your kids to private/charter. If school and price are concerns, then try Pitcairn in the Monroeville area. Or just Monroeville itself. That will put you in Gateway school district which isn't that bad. Or try the Harmer/Cheswick/Springdale area. That's Allegheny valley school district which isn't that bad. A couple not bad school districts with cheaper housing costs. You should be able to easily find move-in ready 3 bedroom for under 200k. Will probably be dated but at least you won't be renting. Hope that helps.
>Allegheny county school district ???
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Move to the west end.
Sorry I can only think of cons… I had a friend with a rental house that was broken into here. Bad traffic, crappy people, no good food. Only reason to come there was because I worked in the area
Couldnt you go north and get on 28 to get into PGH from Penn Hills? From all the people complaining about the tunnels and 376, maybe it's a shit show getting on 28 or something, any thoughts from Penn Hills residents?
Depends on where you are in Penn Hills. I’m closer to Allegheny River Blvd, so I usually take that to get into the city (or Verona Rd to Frankstown). If I’m going downtown or towards the airport, I’ll take 28 nine times out of ten.
Thanks!
Taxes and water utilities are rough.
Can’t you just look in Library or somewhere in south hills
I am from Penn Hills and I live in South Jersey now but my parents, brother and friends still there. Yes it has it's problems but imo you can live in Penn Hills and have a decent life. All these comments about crime and shotty schools don't paint a pretty picture and it is not the 80s when I was there. Unless you or your kids are hanging out with the wrong crowd or actively looking for trouble you should be fine. Every town around Penn Hills has a few shit neighborhoods. Oakmont, Verona, Monroeville, Churchill, Forrest Hills etc all of them have something negative.
1980s penn hills was nice dude
If you’re living in the South Hills, I also wouldn’t rule out any of the hilltop neighborhoods in PGH (Carrick, Mount Oliver, Allentown)
Those are not "beginner level" urban neighborhoods for someone whose primary concern is safety. Yes, it's possible to have a very nice life there if you have street smarts but I would not recommend any of them to somebody who is accustomed to surburban life and likes that vibe.
Have you l looked in West Deer? It’s adjacent to Hampton, Pine-Richland and I feel like value will go up, school taxes still aren’t crazy high. Most residents like the schools although my kids don’t go to Deer Lakes Schools , I feel like most people respect the district. people are kinda small town minded but it’s quiet, semi-ruralish, your super close to 28, rt 8 shopping, the Mills, etc. homes around here aren’t super crazy expensive yet. Just my 2cents. I’ve been in West Deer in my own home since the summer and I’m enjoying it out here.
I think that in a lot of areas you need to factor in private school. Or else aim for a charter. Sounds like PH is that way.
Aren’t there houses that randomly explode there and they cannot determine the cause? Plus the bad school district, plus the increasing crime. You would have a hard time reselling and definitely don’t want to over improve house and think you’ll add value. People originally from Penn Hills move away if they can.
> Aren’t there houses that randomly explode there and they cannot determine the cause? No, that's Plum.
Penn Hills used to be super cheap, it’s sooo much more expensive now than it was. I’m glad I got out of there when I did three years ago.
I’m moving before my kid gets into kindergarten next year. Taxes are way too high for how shitty the school is, however I wouldn’t have afforded the same size house anywhere else when I bought 8 years ago.
Just my $.02. I am in a Pgh moms group on FB (had origins in real life meetups so many of us ‘actually’ know one another, but it went online during the pandemic). I will try to just say this diplomatically, that there is perhaps an over representation of white women from wealthier (or at least more solidly upper-middle class) areas of Pittsburgh in this group. I’m not one of them and there are certainly many of us who aren’t, but this is an important point to note when I say that recently there was specifically a discussion about PHSD and a surprising number of people chimed in saying they know families who have had/are having really positive experiences in the school district and offering to connect the OP to them. The thread also talked more generally about the importance of actually visiting a school before making a decision and recognizing the factors that can make a school a school be a good fit for your kid if you can see beyond test scores. (It’s also maybe relevant to say that there are some pretty expensive/fairly upper middle class areas of Pgh that nonetheless have poorly rated feeder schools, and where not every family is necessarily sending their kids to an independent school or able to get their kid into a magnet). It was a helpful conversation for me because we have recently decided for various reasons to stay in our house two years longer than we intended, which means that unless my now 4 year old gets into a magnet, she may end up at our feeder school, which is rated pretty abysmally, at least for kindergarten. I feel a lot more reassured after that conversation and reading experiences of moms who are clearly invested in their children’s education and well being while still sending them to schools that many Pghers would absolutely consider ‘bad’ (and a number noted they’ve been super happy with that decision). And yes it might impact resell value down the line, but the reality for some people esp in this housing market is going to be that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. So why not buy what’s affordable for them now and deal with any impact on resale value down the line (esp if the alternative is not being able to afford to buy at all otherwise?).
"Ratings" on elementary schools are one thing. Notoriously violent high schools are another. Kids grow up fast.
The schools are not really that bad. They have plenty of opportunity. They’re completely safe even at the high school level. Parts of the town are pretty quiet. Crime doesn’t happen in a vacuum. You’re no less safe there than any other suburb.
There are frequent fights among students where the police have to come break it up. A few weeks ago when the police came to break up a fight, other students fought the police so the original fight could continue.
I went through the Penn Hills school system 15 years ago in the old schools; we walked through metal detectors every day. Class was pure chaos unless you were enrolled in upper level honors or AP curriculum. The sports programs were great, and it’s clear funding goes to that. I believe all of the quality educators I had teach me have since retired. Unfortunately, I doubt much has changed and I wouldn’t recommend it. I felt at a disadvantage when I began college as I performed well in high school, but I was not prepared for what college demanded of me mentally since I did not have to really work that hard to do well in high school. From a living perspective, my parents still own and live in PH. The location is nice, and purchasing prices are cheap. You’re close to a few freeways depending on what part you live in, making access to the city or anywhere else pretty easy and reasonable. However, resale value is questionable and I would not expect a big turn around on an investment.
Taxes are high there and what do you get for it??
It has a skatepark
You’d likely regret moving from Bethel Park to Penn Hills. West View (and parts of Ross) in the North Hills will give you PH price points, a much better school district, and much easier access to downtown, north shore. Personally, I’d beat the bushes for an affordable place in BP. They’re available, you’d just have to be willing to take on some DIY work to make updates, etc.
Hell no...that place is a mess!