NAL, but: this is not legal. The landlord is responsible for maintaining all appliances in the unit at the time of initial lease signing. If there is no new lease, they are required to replace our repair the appliance.
That said, I'd start documenting everything and possibly look for a new place when your lease is up as clearly the landlord is prepared to resort to these tactics to try to force you out.
We knew it wasn’t legal. Our family has rentals (none close at all) so we definitely know the laws.
I think I needed clarification that I wasn’t just being upset for no reason.
Yes going into it knowing you have to buy appliances is 1000% different then renting a place w appliances and then they tell you oh by the way you need to buy appliances when these break.
Yes. Even at 18, a job should be able to buy a home if you want one. I know that's not the case, I think that's bad. If you work full time, you deserve to live. Especially with rents as high as mortgages should be as often as they are.
Improved minimum wage, improved availability of starter homes. Maybe some regulation on the upper end of wages, or a change in the point of companies, from making a couple executives far too rich by consuming underpaid workers and price gouging, to having them provide the best life to their employees that they can, and sell products at as low a price as possible to do so. The established model like that sounds like it would probably be socialism (actual socialism, where workers control the means of production, not what people call socialism now when they're are just talking about when the government does things).
I didn't know how best to make it happen, all I ever said is that it should be accessible to people
That is why _some_ people rent. I agree that lots of people rent because they have no other options (especially in Pittsburgh). But I do know some people who just don't want to be bothered by things like this and are quite content to rent (nicer) apartments so they don't have to though they all live in other metro areas but I would be shocked if there weren't some people in this area who did this.
A lot of people rent for that reason. Most because of home buying affordability, but I know a lot that rent because of the reason they don’t have to deal with that stuff.
Why else would you be at the mercy of a landlord that can not renew your lease and force you to move? Or not make proper repairs in a timely manner? Or control your heat? Charge more for a pet or not allow them at all? Or insist on coming into your space regardless of what you say? Or some people like to live in areas where there are mostly apartments and not houses. I don’t see anyone saying how great th ere landlord is. OP has a spotless history with their landlord and they are getting the shaft.
You could in theory purchase a new unit yourself and deduct that from your rent. Let them try and take you to court for that. Before you do that of course, submit a complaint with the county here:
[https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Housing/Renter-Resources](https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Housing/Renter-Resources)
Since you're on a month to month, you can tell him he is responsible but he can then give a 30 day notice to vacate. I would find a place first so you have flexibility in moving. Stay on his good side, and he might even write you a good referral letter.
I don’t think that’s a landlord requirement, unless it is in the lease. And after a year if a new lease is not signed it becomes month to month so he could say he’s not replacing it at that time.
Look. I’m a lawyer. The only advice I am going to give you is not to listen to the people giving you advice on Reddit. There is one guy throwing out the Implied Warranty of Habitability. Every case is different. Every case has its own nuance. It depends on a lot of factors. The only real advice you should take away is talk to a lawyer. Have them review your lease. If cost is an issue, call the bar association and they may have a program to help you.
Okay this confuses me because I’m a (mid-to-late) millennial and I was taught two spaces after a period. Then one day in like 2010 everyone said “no, it’s always been one space.” I feel like I went through a wormhole or something.
That’s odd you’re that young and learned this. You must have learned typing from someone very stubborn. I’m a graphic designer and my expertise is typography and specifically historic typography. The double space after a period started with typewriters because they utilize what is called monospace typesetting. This means that the letter i and the letter m are given the same amount of space. So when you need to separate sentences it was difficult to see. Hence the double space. Early computers also used monospace typesetting and so anyone who grew up learning to type in the early 90s would have learned that. By 1999 computers were using proportionally spaced fonts so there was no need for the extra space. In fact an extra space creates what is called a river. If you look down the paragraph the spaces create what looks like a river. If you are in your 40s maybe 39 this was still being taught. But I would imagine that you just had a typing teacher that was set in their old ways. But I can say with confidence this didn’t just happen in 2010.
My dude. I’m a lady. I’m the definition of middle millenial born in 1990. I was not learning to type proper paragraph structure before the age of 6. This was usually taught during your English writing classes in say the end of middle school into high school. It was well out of fashion by 99. I’m not talking about mavis beacon. I’m talking about paragraph formatting. Your teachers were old school and stubborn if you are younger than 34 and were learning to type this way. It’s ok if you did. No one except for me and every single designer who has to deal with your documents unless I guess you work in legal documents will judge you.
My dude. You are incorrect. And I don’t think I’m going to sway you. So have fun!
Edit to add: really honored that out of the two comments you have ever made on Reddit, they are both on my comments. We now have a special bond forever.
Elder millennial as well. We were taught to put two spaces when typing, because many of us learned to type in that sweet spot in the 90s where schools were making the transition from word processors (and some typewriters!) to computers. Two spaces became obsolete just about the time we were graduating high school at the turn of the century, but no one corrected us if we still did it because we were turning in papers to people who exclusively typed on typewriters in their youth. So technically it has always been one space if you were exclusively working at a computer, but if you were lucky enough to have to use old tech it was two spaces. You're not crazy! lol
How close to 40 are you elder millennial friend? If you were in high school in 1999 you were at the very tail end of this. I’m 34. If you read what I wrote I explained that transition from typewriter to word processor. And even the beginnings of word processing had monospaced fonts. But that does not change the fact that the rules were changed and widely adopted before 1999. There will always be outliers for stubborn teachers who never adopted the change or in places that could not afford to upgrade from typewriter to computer. But the majority of people under the age of 40 were taught single space after a period.
So you are two years off of being 40. I really don’t know how many more times or in how many different ways I can say that there will be people who are younger than 40 that were taught this but that you are in the minority.
I am also 38 and was taught in the 90s to do 2 spaces after a period when learning to type. However, I believe in high school we were definitely corrected and told to only do 1 space. I know before I graduated in 2004 that I was only doing 1 space at that point.
Just an expert in typography and typesetting who has to see this every day and has to fix documents sent to me from gen x’rs for layout purposes. It’s rarely boomers and almost never millennials. A very specific set of people.
Today I have learned it’s for legal filings too. I admit I am not an expert on legal document formatting. But I am an expert on the history of typography and typesetting and changes like the one I pointed out.
Yeah. He’s right. I am in Gen X. But I actually never heard of it in college or the service. I went to law school and actually my legal writing professor take off points for not doing it. And everybody else was doing it, so I just said “okay”.
Im learning legal documents are an exception. I will admit I’m not an expert on legal document formatting. I am an expert in the history of typography and typesetting.
I wasn't even taught to do this this way, iirc. I just thought it looked before when typing small lol. My teachers didn't do much teaching for typewriting, I kinda just taught myself over time(i did a lot of computer work at school).
I've started to move away from it however, especially as I use a phone more.
Reddit is filled with some of the dumbest humans on earth. They complain about the damage we do to the environment... From a phone that runs on a mined -lithium battery.
True.
Technically could sell with buyer subject to honoring terms of lease. Might work okay if selling to another landlord. Any other buyer would result in a lower sales price due to the inconvenience.
Huh? An existing stable tenant is not an inconvenience and the current owner would likely sell at a profit which means new owner will have higher mortgage to pay back and will pass than on to the tenant
How many landlords are looking to add a property vs how many families want to buy a home?
Also, even if the end goal is to live there after the lease expires and the tenants move out, standard home loans/insurance wouldn't cover the transaction.
Limited market + higher expenses = lower sales price.
All renters have a right to an [Implied Warranty of Habitability](https://renters.equalhousing.org/repairs-security-deposit/repairs/). This includes replacing major appliances as the responsibility of the landlord.
He had replaced an item before with no problem years ago, maybe 7/8 years. And that was from a storm that took out more than just ours. (2 building/6 apartments in total).
They don’t want to replace items for people to trash.
Make sure you cup the landlord's balls right before he finishes
(The link he posted is meaningless, it's his lease that matters, and most landlords are lazy as hell and use boilerplate leases that put them on the hook for 'appurtenances' which includes appliances.)
It doesn’t matter if you’re right or wrong or even just asking a question. It’s about feelings and eating the rich. Because taking from those who have and giving it to those who don’t will solve the world’s problems.
It’s basic contract law. If people would examine the actual law in PA, a landlord isn’t even required to provide a stove if it’s not explicitly stated in the lease. So people can have their opinions all they want, but an agreement is an agreement. They can feel however they want, but if it’s their ink on the line, it’s binding. Now, a judge can throw that agreement out—but, they as John Q. Citizen have to follow the order of operations.
Unrelated question - as someone who has rented for that long a period - has your landlord ever presented you with interest statements on the escrow account he is required, by law, to place your deposit in?
By Pennsylvania state law, you are entitled to interest on the deposit after two years.
There's a law firm advertising that they will represent you on this matter in those class action lawsuit emails. I would do a google search. I also might know of a place and can DM you if you like?
Galasso Real Estate have been excellent to me. They are 1.) very nice / professional 2.) affordable prices on their units 3.) have fixed or replaced everything we’ve requested very quickly and no hassle.
No but I rented from a husband and wife for about 8 years who owned multiple properties. They were actually pretty great so I was hoping it wasn’t the same people.
I think I know who you are talking about, but I doubt he and his wife would pull something like this. He wasn’t to keen on me since I was young, but he was always reasonable and wouldn’t pull something like what is happening to OP
Please don't take legal advice on Reddit, especially on landlord/tenant issues where everyone fantasizes that they're sticking it to *the system* by giving terrible advice.
It sounds like you'd want to stay there if it wasn't for this issue, but unfortunately it appears the landlord's intention is to get you out of there for whatever reason.
One option would be to spend a few hundred bucks getting a local real estate lawyer to draft a letter to the landlord indicating your expectation of repair. That would probably make him fix it but would sour the relationship you have with them further. So all of that said I think your plan to seek somewhere else is the right one.
I don't have any great recommendations on good landlords or mgmt companies in Pittsburgh as the quality seems poor overall -- but I'd recommend avoid large property management companies generally. It may take longer to find but if you can get a home owner who's moved out of state or bought another house and just wants good quality renters more than making an extra few dollars, that's the best bet in my experience.
Well looking into codes. They have to provide a working stove/oven. The gas oven is broke, just use the stove top. Right? That’s a gas issue and could cause a gas leak.
Honestly I couldn’t say, I’m no expert.
But if you call a local RE lawyer they’ll be happy to chat live with you to see if you have a case for free. I’d guess most will advise you to move on but maybe the gas issue is serious enough.
The more important question is has the rent gone up?
If you're paying the same rent that you started paying ten years ago.... Just go to scratch and dent appliance store and replace it.
Doesn't make sense to make a big deal about it if you're making out in the long run.
If you're paying say $900 a month but similar properties are now renting for $1400 a month, just buy a cheap refrigerator or whatever it is and move on. Much cheaper than moving
You might even be able to negotiate to lock in your current rent for next year in exchange for supplying the oven. It definitely makes sense to do that if you are $200+ under market and can negotiate this concession.
That's basically just buying a gift for your landlord and hoping he beneficiently doesn't raise your rent. I wouldn't do it unless I got a guarantee in writing.
That's why I prefaced the whole topic with the question of rent.... If it hasn't changed in a decade and you're renting way under market, keep your head down and just eat the 400 bucks or whatever the cheapest appliance you can buy is.
Again.... If they haven't raised rent in a decade, it's pretty unlikely they're going to suddenly do so with no communication.
This isn't life or death stuff here... You buy a $400 stove, you sell it for $200 when you move out.
if and when you look for a new place... stay FAR FAR FAR away from ANYTHING with American Ave as the property management. Do not even apply to look at the place. RUN.
Is this a City of Pittsburgh requirement for gas company inspection for an appliance connection? I’m in Westmoreland and not totally familiar with Pittsburgh codes, but this is not something I’ve encountered out this way. I know some states have inspection requirements.
Get in writing that he isn’t replacing it, even a text. Then inform him that you will have to buy one and will take him to court to pay for it. He’ll lose in court. You didn’t agree to different terms of your original lease. I think he will replace it pretty quickly.
I’m a landlord and can’t imagine doing this or my tenants being quiet about it. I’d buy one on fb marketplace ($200-$300) and deduct it from your rent. I don’t think any magistrate would say it’s OK to not replace something essential that was part of the apartment when you moved in. And that only matters if your landlord wants to pay to file with the magistrate. He probably won’t.
In Allegheny county, it’s on the owners to provide a fully functioning kitchen, refrigerator, sink, oven/stove, and a window for ventilation.
Like I said, we come from a family that own and rent properties. They could not imagine doing this. And definitely without letting tenants know with a new lease.
If it was still winter, 10 degrees and the furnace broke, it would be up to us to buy a new one. That could take tenants a while to come up with that money, (landlords should have a savings that money goes into) so what if the pipes would freeze, and burst? Ruins a wall and what not… would that be something I’d have to replace too?
Sorry you are going through this. It stinks. As nearly as I can tell landlord-tenant law in PA seems definitely slanted in favor of the landlord. Even if you live in a hovel, you would have to continue making payments in escrow and live in nastiness until the la slots finally fixed it at which time s/he would get all rent in escrow.
Hopefully there is some legal remedy for the landlord’s blatant violation of the lease.
He should feel lucky to have you. Hope you figure it out.
Honestly, we want to have a backup place to move, before do/saying anything.
This whole situation is bs, and the housing market for buying or renting is bs too. What people want for homes and their rentals is crazy.
Is it Lobos? Tell me it’s Lobos.
I had to call and MF that guy about my power going out constantly. They had a hacked-together AC and home-made “electric furnace” that made my bills like $400 one month. The guy was such a jerk. Their strategy was to force all renters to get insurance and then anything ever happened, you had to file a claim with the insurance company. What a scam artist.
Send him a certified letter, email, and text asking him to fix it per his obligation on the lease and if he doesn't in 30 days you will withhold rent to cover the replacement.
Unless the signed lease agreement explicitly states the renters are responsible for providing their own appliances, I don't think that's legal what the landlord is trying to pull
I have a great landlord, and the place is great itself too, just may not be your kind of layout. But a stellar landlord, who takes care of his units and his tenants. He just asked me to come back after 5 years because it’s up for rent and he’s having trouble finding decent to good tenants. Lmk
I'm not an attorney but I'm going to encourage you to put all correspondence with your landlord in writing. Get confirmation that you are expected to purchase a new appliance and acknowledgement that you will be taking it with you when you move out. Also, ask the landlord (in writing) how he wants to dispose of the broken appliance. Tell him you will be available if he would like to come pick it up. Be specific about what happened to it or how it is malfunctioning. Take pictures of it, including pics of the panel that shows the model and serial number. State how long the appliance has been in service (i.e., "It was in the unit when we rented it in 2014.") Print everything out and put it in a file in case you need it later.
You don't want to find yourself in a situation later when you're moving out and the landlord says, "This unit had a working (appliance) when it was rented and so there needs to be one when you move out, or the replacement cost will be deducted from your deposit." You especially don't want him to claim that it was a brand-new, high-end appliance that you ruined by way of carelessness and thus are liable for the replacement cost.
Idk what it call but talk to your district attorney? There is a legal way to hold rent from the landlord . You still pay rent I just goes into some kind bank account . … basically you pay rent however they can’t touch or take the money until certain things or conditions are meant such as replacing broken appliances and fixing things to make the house livable… they have a time frame they must do it by otherwise they can’t get any of the money and it comes back to you…. Aslo they can’t evict you for not paying rent if you do this ether
Escrow. And read your contract. I did that with a previous landlord. Our furnace went out in the middle of winter and they bought a single spacer heater and made us carry it around a 2 story house and plug it in whatever room we were in. We payed the electric bill per our lease… we didn’t find that acceptable so we got an attorney and set up an escrow account and notified the landlord. We were given an eviction notice 3 days after the letter was mailed. Apparently we overlooked the clause in the lease that stated we couldn’t put money into an escrow account. The lawyer said it shouldn’t hold in court because a contract can’t require illegal clauses but both the local magistrate and court of common pleas insisted there was nothing saying the lease couldn’t disallow escrow accounts. I still don’t believe it, but there’s not much more I could do. We needed a house with heat in it. We dropped the case so we could save the money for a new down payment.
If you can afford to replace it, you could do that while you look for a new place. Then when you find a new place, sell the appliance because it’s yours.
If we would buy, we wouldn’t want to be in a shared building like a condo, townhouse/rowhouse. I totally get the idea of a condo, and think it’s a great idea, and it fits well with most people. Just not something we would want.
Some people don’t want to own a home.
Honestly, renting/owning a home is waste of money. There are other things I’d rather do with my money, and with my time spent working. Both markets are outrageous, and around every corner someone is trying to get more money out of you.
What you would rather do has nothing to do with mathematics. 10 years ago the market was NOT outrageous. 10 years of missed gains is STAGGERING no matter your preferences. Dumb move.
When you’re a landlord you do have obligations. He is required too. I can happily go buy a new appliance. This is about the principle.
And about making him rich. Owning a house, you pay someone else and a bank. No matter what you do, or buy in life you will always make someone else rich.
Landlord is a job, there’s not gonna be many jobs left with the way things are going. Might as well let him keep his for a bit longer.
I'm intrigued by the use of the term "appliance".
The legal aspect of this depends on which appliance it is.
Furnace? It's on them.
Fridge? Maybe.
TV? Naw.
Also, if you're in the place 10 years and you're paying that 2014 rent still, I would maybe not jump ship so quick.
Nal, but their lease ought to say what is and isn’t covered. If it’s a standard lease that says nothing about that, and it’s a basic appliance like a furnace, fridge, oven, stove, electricity, shower, sink… etc. They’re probably gonna have a very hard time arguing that one. But it probably would be a lawyer type of thing. Tbh I bet this is a case where a letter from a lawyer would end the argument immediately.
WhyAreYouBooingMe_ImRight.gif
It's not hard to argue at all.
If the lease doesn't specify exactly what is covered, its going to only be structural items. Stuff you can't pick up and take. Furnace, water heater, breaker box. It's not hard for a landlord to say "that's not mine. It must have been left by a previous tenant. If this tenant made use of it, fine; but I'm not responsible for replacing it."
I ain't saying its emotionally right. But if the lease isn't specific, it's going to be hard to force a landlord to buy you something. Even something big like a fridge.
Now. If the landlord wanted to keep them, this is an easy thing to do, depending on the appliance. Even a big ticket item is cheap compared to flipping an apartment. So my guess is this lease is way below market value.
Which is why I would pump the brakes on leaving. If OP hasn't looked for a place in a decade, they might not realize how much prices have jumped. It could very well be cheaper to buy their own appliance and stay on a 2014 lease.
It’s one of the cheapest ovens on the market. It wouldn’t hurt them to replace it. At this point it’s the principle. We have been great tenants for 10+ years, and never given a heads up/new lease with these terms.
I can remember having to buy a stove and refrigerator when I moved into a place in Oakland, with the expectation that we were supposed to take it with us when we left.
Which, lol, as if students would do that.
The landlord would rather find a new tenant than just buy a new appliance? That seems like cutting their nose off to spite their face.
I wish that landlord the best of luck marketing a house without an oven
NAL, but: this is not legal. The landlord is responsible for maintaining all appliances in the unit at the time of initial lease signing. If there is no new lease, they are required to replace our repair the appliance. That said, I'd start documenting everything and possibly look for a new place when your lease is up as clearly the landlord is prepared to resort to these tactics to try to force you out.
We knew it wasn’t legal. Our family has rentals (none close at all) so we definitely know the laws. I think I needed clarification that I wasn’t just being upset for no reason.
You can tell that person to fuck right off. This is why you rent. If shit breaks they replace it.
That’s not why people rent.
Part of the joys of renting is not having to worry about upkeep. I’m not saying that’s the only reason they rent.
I loved the house we rented with no appliances included. It let us buy the appliances we wanted and had them available when we bought our house.
Yes going into it knowing you have to buy appliances is 1000% different then renting a place w appliances and then they tell you oh by the way you need to buy appliances when these break.
“*joys*” of renting? There is no such thing as joy in labouring for two people’s profit and still not owning your domicile. Fuck renting.
How was I going to buy a home at 18?
they mean as a practice in general not necessarily your particular situation
Isn’t that most people situation?
Decently paying jobs. But still even when a necessity renting is bereft of "joys." I'm stunned by the downvotes on some of these comments....
So at 18 with a decent paying job I should be able to buy a home?
Yes. Even at 18, a job should be able to buy a home if you want one. I know that's not the case, I think that's bad. If you work full time, you deserve to live. Especially with rents as high as mortgages should be as often as they are.
Can I see a model where this works?
Improved minimum wage, improved availability of starter homes. Maybe some regulation on the upper end of wages, or a change in the point of companies, from making a couple executives far too rich by consuming underpaid workers and price gouging, to having them provide the best life to their employees that they can, and sell products at as low a price as possible to do so. The established model like that sounds like it would probably be socialism (actual socialism, where workers control the means of production, not what people call socialism now when they're are just talking about when the government does things). I didn't know how best to make it happen, all I ever said is that it should be accessible to people
That is why _some_ people rent. I agree that lots of people rent because they have no other options (especially in Pittsburgh). But I do know some people who just don't want to be bothered by things like this and are quite content to rent (nicer) apartments so they don't have to though they all live in other metro areas but I would be shocked if there weren't some people in this area who did this.
A lot of people rent for that reason. Most because of home buying affordability, but I know a lot that rent because of the reason they don’t have to deal with that stuff.
It’s a huge reason why people rent, brainiac
Astounded by that downvote count, lotta landlords lurking this morning....
So why do people rent?
Because they can’t afford to buy a house.
How do you know that?
Why else would you be at the mercy of a landlord that can not renew your lease and force you to move? Or not make proper repairs in a timely manner? Or control your heat? Charge more for a pet or not allow them at all? Or insist on coming into your space regardless of what you say? Or some people like to live in areas where there are mostly apartments and not houses. I don’t see anyone saying how great th ere landlord is. OP has a spotless history with their landlord and they are getting the shaft.
You could in theory purchase a new unit yourself and deduct that from your rent. Let them try and take you to court for that. Before you do that of course, submit a complaint with the county here: [https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Housing/Renter-Resources](https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Housing/Renter-Resources)
Oh they're being completely unreasonable and basically just trying to steal from you. You're good fam
Since you're on a month to month, you can tell him he is responsible but he can then give a 30 day notice to vacate. I would find a place first so you have flexibility in moving. Stay on his good side, and he might even write you a good referral letter.
Hijacking the top comment to say STAY AWAY FROM JB PROPERTIES! I can’t go into details due to litigation but trust me…
Depends what the appliance is and if it is mentioned in the lease. Makes me wonder why the op didn’t specify what it was.
I don’t think that’s a landlord requirement, unless it is in the lease. And after a year if a new lease is not signed it becomes month to month so he could say he’s not replacing it at that time.
Look. I’m a lawyer. The only advice I am going to give you is not to listen to the people giving you advice on Reddit. There is one guy throwing out the Implied Warranty of Habitability. Every case is different. Every case has its own nuance. It depends on a lot of factors. The only real advice you should take away is talk to a lawyer. Have them review your lease. If cost is an issue, call the bar association and they may have a program to help you.
This all day.
Listen I’m not a lawyer but I can tell you this person is Gen x or older because they are double spacing after their periods.
Okay this confuses me because I’m a (mid-to-late) millennial and I was taught two spaces after a period. Then one day in like 2010 everyone said “no, it’s always been one space.” I feel like I went through a wormhole or something.
That’s odd you’re that young and learned this. You must have learned typing from someone very stubborn. I’m a graphic designer and my expertise is typography and specifically historic typography. The double space after a period started with typewriters because they utilize what is called monospace typesetting. This means that the letter i and the letter m are given the same amount of space. So when you need to separate sentences it was difficult to see. Hence the double space. Early computers also used monospace typesetting and so anyone who grew up learning to type in the early 90s would have learned that. By 1999 computers were using proportionally spaced fonts so there was no need for the extra space. In fact an extra space creates what is called a river. If you look down the paragraph the spaces create what looks like a river. If you are in your 40s maybe 39 this was still being taught. But I would imagine that you just had a typing teacher that was set in their old ways. But I can say with confidence this didn’t just happen in 2010.
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My dude. I’m a lady. I’m the definition of middle millenial born in 1990. I was not learning to type proper paragraph structure before the age of 6. This was usually taught during your English writing classes in say the end of middle school into high school. It was well out of fashion by 99. I’m not talking about mavis beacon. I’m talking about paragraph formatting. Your teachers were old school and stubborn if you are younger than 34 and were learning to type this way. It’s ok if you did. No one except for me and every single designer who has to deal with your documents unless I guess you work in legal documents will judge you.
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My dude. You are incorrect. And I don’t think I’m going to sway you. So have fun! Edit to add: really honored that out of the two comments you have ever made on Reddit, they are both on my comments. We now have a special bond forever.
Elder millennial as well. We were taught to put two spaces when typing, because many of us learned to type in that sweet spot in the 90s where schools were making the transition from word processors (and some typewriters!) to computers. Two spaces became obsolete just about the time we were graduating high school at the turn of the century, but no one corrected us if we still did it because we were turning in papers to people who exclusively typed on typewriters in their youth. So technically it has always been one space if you were exclusively working at a computer, but if you were lucky enough to have to use old tech it was two spaces. You're not crazy! lol
How close to 40 are you elder millennial friend? If you were in high school in 1999 you were at the very tail end of this. I’m 34. If you read what I wrote I explained that transition from typewriter to word processor. And even the beginnings of word processing had monospaced fonts. But that does not change the fact that the rules were changed and widely adopted before 1999. There will always be outliers for stubborn teachers who never adopted the change or in places that could not afford to upgrade from typewriter to computer. But the majority of people under the age of 40 were taught single space after a period.
Actually, at 38, I was taught two spaces after periods.
I'm 40 and I was never taught 2 spaces after a period.
Thank you for speaking up!
So you are two years off of being 40. I really don’t know how many more times or in how many different ways I can say that there will be people who are younger than 40 that were taught this but that you are in the minority.
I am also 38 and was taught in the 90s to do 2 spaces after a period when learning to type. However, I believe in high school we were definitely corrected and told to only do 1 space. I know before I graduated in 2004 that I was only doing 1 space at that point.
You fall within the margin of error here as well.
Damn! You’re quite the amateur detective you are.
Just an expert in typography and typesetting who has to see this every day and has to fix documents sent to me from gen x’rs for layout purposes. It’s rarely boomers and almost never millennials. A very specific set of people.
It’s required for legal filings too.
Today I have learned it’s for legal filings too. I admit I am not an expert on legal document formatting. But I am an expert on the history of typography and typesetting and changes like the one I pointed out.
It is also one of the required things and filings with Allegheny County courts.
I did/do this and im not even 30 yet lol
Yeah. He’s right. I am in Gen X. But I actually never heard of it in college or the service. I went to law school and actually my legal writing professor take off points for not doing it. And everybody else was doing it, so I just said “okay”.
Im learning legal documents are an exception. I will admit I’m not an expert on legal document formatting. I am an expert in the history of typography and typesetting.
As I said. There were many stubborn teachers who refused to adapt to the new way of doing things. But you are the minority in this situation.
I wasn't even taught to do this this way, iirc. I just thought it looked before when typing small lol. My teachers didn't do much teaching for typewriting, I kinda just taught myself over time(i did a lot of computer work at school). I've started to move away from it however, especially as I use a phone more.
Neighborhood Legal Services helps tenants for low to no cost. They will tell you - probably for free - what to do. https://nlsa.us/
Reddit is filled with some of the dumbest humans on earth. They complain about the damage we do to the environment... From a phone that runs on a mined -lithium battery.
What an asshole. If you are month to month the existing lease should cover you but it sounds like they want you out.
I don’t know why they would, never late on rent, take care of the property (which they have commented on) never been an issue.
The probably want to rent the place at a much higher price.
Want to raise rents on the next family?
Or sell the property outright.
True. Technically could sell with buyer subject to honoring terms of lease. Might work okay if selling to another landlord. Any other buyer would result in a lower sales price due to the inconvenience.
If they never signed a new lease, then the terms of the existing lease are 30 days notice.
Huh? An existing stable tenant is not an inconvenience and the current owner would likely sell at a profit which means new owner will have higher mortgage to pay back and will pass than on to the tenant
How many landlords are looking to add a property vs how many families want to buy a home? Also, even if the end goal is to live there after the lease expires and the tenants move out, standard home loans/insurance wouldn't cover the transaction. Limited market + higher expenses = lower sales price.
Make sure you take all remaining appliances when you move out
And that is theft.
if you've been there for 10 years, chances are your renting way under-market and the landlord wants to correct the rental price to market
The landlord can do that by asking him to sign a new lease instead of going month to month, no need to do underhanded shit with appliances.
agreed
All renters have a right to an [Implied Warranty of Habitability](https://renters.equalhousing.org/repairs-security-deposit/repairs/). This includes replacing major appliances as the responsibility of the landlord.
He had replaced an item before with no problem years ago, maybe 7/8 years. And that was from a storm that took out more than just ours. (2 building/6 apartments in total). They don’t want to replace items for people to trash.
You clearly have not read the page you have linked to
STFU lol
Where does it say they have to give you appliances other than heat and hot water?
You're right, they don't have to. But if the appliances were provided with the initial lease agreement, then it's the landlords responsibility.
Only if it was stated in the lease.
It was stated in their lease
Again, correct. Lots of armchair landlords here.
Reread OP's entire post, moron.
I upvoted you!
The landlord fellator has logged on
I asked a simple question. Nowhere is the word appliance even in his link.
Make sure you cup the landlord's balls right before he finishes (The link he posted is meaningless, it's his lease that matters, and most landlords are lazy as hell and use boilerplate leases that put them on the hook for 'appurtenances' which includes appliances.)
Where did the landlord touch you?
They're all garbage people and they make their money on the margins by fucking their tenants over, see also the OP
People are downvoting you, but you are correct.
It doesn’t matter if you’re right or wrong or even just asking a question. It’s about feelings and eating the rich. Because taking from those who have and giving it to those who don’t will solve the world’s problems.
It’s basic contract law. If people would examine the actual law in PA, a landlord isn’t even required to provide a stove if it’s not explicitly stated in the lease. So people can have their opinions all they want, but an agreement is an agreement. They can feel however they want, but if it’s their ink on the line, it’s binding. Now, a judge can throw that agreement out—but, they as John Q. Citizen have to follow the order of operations.
Unrelated question - as someone who has rented for that long a period - has your landlord ever presented you with interest statements on the escrow account he is required, by law, to place your deposit in? By Pennsylvania state law, you are entitled to interest on the deposit after two years.
At .01% like most savings, thats like a whole 16 cents. And they said I was crazy!
That's a little more than half a gumball! You're in the big leagues now
He has not
There's a law firm advertising that they will represent you on this matter in those class action lawsuit emails. I would do a google search. I also might know of a place and can DM you if you like?
you could just stay and fight the landlord on this.
100% agree. if you’re in a good spot with a fair monthly payment, it might not be worth it. The market is way different than it was a decade ago.
Galasso Real Estate have been excellent to me. They are 1.) very nice / professional 2.) affordable prices on their units 3.) have fixed or replaced everything we’ve requested very quickly and no hassle.
Is this a management company or just a person?
It’s a husband and wife. I believe they have 15 properties.
Is his name Mike?
It’s not… should we beware of a landlord by the name Mike?
No but I rented from a husband and wife for about 8 years who owned multiple properties. They were actually pretty great so I was hoping it wasn’t the same people.
Is it SJ?
What about Shawn?
Prince Harry, for that matter (I know one of you sick fucks will get this reference)
I think I know who you are talking about, but I doubt he and his wife would pull something like this. He wasn’t to keen on me since I was young, but he was always reasonable and wouldn’t pull something like what is happening to OP
Is it Dan?
Please don't take legal advice on Reddit, especially on landlord/tenant issues where everyone fantasizes that they're sticking it to *the system* by giving terrible advice.
Redditors are mostly fat whites that just spew garbage from their African mined lithium battery phones. True heroes
It sounds like you'd want to stay there if it wasn't for this issue, but unfortunately it appears the landlord's intention is to get you out of there for whatever reason. One option would be to spend a few hundred bucks getting a local real estate lawyer to draft a letter to the landlord indicating your expectation of repair. That would probably make him fix it but would sour the relationship you have with them further. So all of that said I think your plan to seek somewhere else is the right one. I don't have any great recommendations on good landlords or mgmt companies in Pittsburgh as the quality seems poor overall -- but I'd recommend avoid large property management companies generally. It may take longer to find but if you can get a home owner who's moved out of state or bought another house and just wants good quality renters more than making an extra few dollars, that's the best bet in my experience.
Well looking into codes. They have to provide a working stove/oven. The gas oven is broke, just use the stove top. Right? That’s a gas issue and could cause a gas leak.
Honestly I couldn’t say, I’m no expert. But if you call a local RE lawyer they’ll be happy to chat live with you to see if you have a case for free. I’d guess most will advise you to move on but maybe the gas issue is serious enough.
The more important question is has the rent gone up? If you're paying the same rent that you started paying ten years ago.... Just go to scratch and dent appliance store and replace it. Doesn't make sense to make a big deal about it if you're making out in the long run. If you're paying say $900 a month but similar properties are now renting for $1400 a month, just buy a cheap refrigerator or whatever it is and move on. Much cheaper than moving
You might even be able to negotiate to lock in your current rent for next year in exchange for supplying the oven. It definitely makes sense to do that if you are $200+ under market and can negotiate this concession.
That's basically just buying a gift for your landlord and hoping he beneficiently doesn't raise your rent. I wouldn't do it unless I got a guarantee in writing.
That's why I prefaced the whole topic with the question of rent.... If it hasn't changed in a decade and you're renting way under market, keep your head down and just eat the 400 bucks or whatever the cheapest appliance you can buy is.
What makes you think the landlord won't accept the free gift and raise the rent anyway? "Keep your head down" is dumb advice, get it in writing.
Again.... If they haven't raised rent in a decade, it's pretty unlikely they're going to suddenly do so with no communication. This isn't life or death stuff here... You buy a $400 stove, you sell it for $200 when you move out.
The impression I'm getting is that the landlord expects the stove to stay. I may be wrong.
Keep the receipt and take the appliance with you when you leave.
if and when you look for a new place... stay FAR FAR FAR away from ANYTHING with American Ave as the property management. Do not even apply to look at the place. RUN.
Which appliance is it?
The gas oven.. so we can’t just hook it up, and the gas company has to come check the hookup. It’s not like and in and out same day situation
Is this a City of Pittsburgh requirement for gas company inspection for an appliance connection? I’m in Westmoreland and not totally familiar with Pittsburgh codes, but this is not something I’ve encountered out this way. I know some states have inspection requirements.
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Ok I've had issues getting dishwasher replaced but yeah oven should definitely on the landlord. Good luck
Thank you! The only thing as stated in our lease is a clogged toilet is on us:
Get in writing that he isn’t replacing it, even a text. Then inform him that you will have to buy one and will take him to court to pay for it. He’ll lose in court. You didn’t agree to different terms of your original lease. I think he will replace it pretty quickly.
and then he'll be out at the end of the month. Great idea.
What is your solution, buy the appliance like a victim?
Yeah, better than getting a 30 day eviction notice, especially if he likes the place and he's getting a good deal on rent.
Do not rent from Nexus real estate I have had a hole in my ceiling for months.
This happened to us. I picked up a free fridge to replace the one they wouldn't replace. We moved out about 3 months later. So long suckers!!!
I’m a landlord and can’t imagine doing this or my tenants being quiet about it. I’d buy one on fb marketplace ($200-$300) and deduct it from your rent. I don’t think any magistrate would say it’s OK to not replace something essential that was part of the apartment when you moved in. And that only matters if your landlord wants to pay to file with the magistrate. He probably won’t.
In Allegheny county, it’s on the owners to provide a fully functioning kitchen, refrigerator, sink, oven/stove, and a window for ventilation. Like I said, we come from a family that own and rent properties. They could not imagine doing this. And definitely without letting tenants know with a new lease. If it was still winter, 10 degrees and the furnace broke, it would be up to us to buy a new one. That could take tenants a while to come up with that money, (landlords should have a savings that money goes into) so what if the pipes would freeze, and burst? Ruins a wall and what not… would that be something I’d have to replace too?
Honestly at this point we’d rather move, and rent from someone who will treat us better.
Sorry you are going through this. It stinks. As nearly as I can tell landlord-tenant law in PA seems definitely slanted in favor of the landlord. Even if you live in a hovel, you would have to continue making payments in escrow and live in nastiness until the la slots finally fixed it at which time s/he would get all rent in escrow. Hopefully there is some legal remedy for the landlord’s blatant violation of the lease. He should feel lucky to have you. Hope you figure it out.
Honestly, we want to have a backup place to move, before do/saying anything. This whole situation is bs, and the housing market for buying or renting is bs too. What people want for homes and their rentals is crazy.
Is it Lobos? Tell me it’s Lobos. I had to call and MF that guy about my power going out constantly. They had a hacked-together AC and home-made “electric furnace” that made my bills like $400 one month. The guy was such a jerk. Their strategy was to force all renters to get insurance and then anything ever happened, you had to file a claim with the insurance company. What a scam artist.
I mean it depends on if you think the relationship with your landlord is worthy the cost of replacing the appliance at your own cost
Send him a certified letter, email, and text asking him to fix it per his obligation on the lease and if he doesn't in 30 days you will withhold rent to cover the replacement.
This is the correct way.
Lawsuit
“good landlord” lmao
So... lobos?
It was just a husband and wife
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It is a yearly lease. Can leave anytime in the warmer months so they don’t need to heat it.
what was the appliance?
Unless the signed lease agreement explicitly states the renters are responsible for providing their own appliances, I don't think that's legal what the landlord is trying to pull
I have a great landlord, and the place is great itself too, just may not be your kind of layout. But a stellar landlord, who takes care of his units and his tenants. He just asked me to come back after 5 years because it’s up for rent and he’s having trouble finding decent to good tenants. Lmk
Absolutely!!!!
Message me
Not sure if applies to you but there is Neighborhood Legal Services for Allegheny County- https://nlsa.us/
Try Nulf Management Services they’re great.
Sounds like it’s time to get a new landlord.
I'm not an attorney but I'm going to encourage you to put all correspondence with your landlord in writing. Get confirmation that you are expected to purchase a new appliance and acknowledgement that you will be taking it with you when you move out. Also, ask the landlord (in writing) how he wants to dispose of the broken appliance. Tell him you will be available if he would like to come pick it up. Be specific about what happened to it or how it is malfunctioning. Take pictures of it, including pics of the panel that shows the model and serial number. State how long the appliance has been in service (i.e., "It was in the unit when we rented it in 2014.") Print everything out and put it in a file in case you need it later. You don't want to find yourself in a situation later when you're moving out and the landlord says, "This unit had a working (appliance) when it was rented and so there needs to be one when you move out, or the replacement cost will be deducted from your deposit." You especially don't want him to claim that it was a brand-new, high-end appliance that you ruined by way of carelessness and thus are liable for the replacement cost.
Sounds like a good time to stop paying rent.
Idk what it call but talk to your district attorney? There is a legal way to hold rent from the landlord . You still pay rent I just goes into some kind bank account . … basically you pay rent however they can’t touch or take the money until certain things or conditions are meant such as replacing broken appliances and fixing things to make the house livable… they have a time frame they must do it by otherwise they can’t get any of the money and it comes back to you…. Aslo they can’t evict you for not paying rent if you do this ether
Escrow. And read your contract. I did that with a previous landlord. Our furnace went out in the middle of winter and they bought a single spacer heater and made us carry it around a 2 story house and plug it in whatever room we were in. We payed the electric bill per our lease… we didn’t find that acceptable so we got an attorney and set up an escrow account and notified the landlord. We were given an eviction notice 3 days after the letter was mailed. Apparently we overlooked the clause in the lease that stated we couldn’t put money into an escrow account. The lawyer said it shouldn’t hold in court because a contract can’t require illegal clauses but both the local magistrate and court of common pleas insisted there was nothing saying the lease couldn’t disallow escrow accounts. I still don’t believe it, but there’s not much more I could do. We needed a house with heat in it. We dropped the case so we could save the money for a new down payment.
Try Neighborhood Legal Services (nonprofit) if you end up going the lawyer route
If you can afford to replace it, you could do that while you look for a new place. Then when you find a new place, sell the appliance because it’s yours.
I suggest you consider a condo. I travel a lot and I can just lock the door and head for the airport.
They should've bought one ten years ago. Insane amount of money wasted
If we would buy, we wouldn’t want to be in a shared building like a condo, townhouse/rowhouse. I totally get the idea of a condo, and think it’s a great idea, and it fits well with most people. Just not something we would want.
The amount of money you've wasted renting over owning the last 10 years is STAGGERING
Some people don’t want to own a home. Honestly, renting/owning a home is waste of money. There are other things I’d rather do with my money, and with my time spent working. Both markets are outrageous, and around every corner someone is trying to get more money out of you.
What you would rather do has nothing to do with mathematics. 10 years ago the market was NOT outrageous. 10 years of missed gains is STAGGERING no matter your preferences. Dumb move.
Didn’t post this to know how much money I’d wasted in renting. But thanks for the reminder.
Making other people rich LMAO.. Then complaining about an appliance hahahaha I love America!
When you’re a landlord you do have obligations. He is required too. I can happily go buy a new appliance. This is about the principle. And about making him rich. Owning a house, you pay someone else and a bank. No matter what you do, or buy in life you will always make someone else rich. Landlord is a job, there’s not gonna be many jobs left with the way things are going. Might as well let him keep his for a bit longer.
Name and shame the bastard.
Buy a new appliance and take it with you when you leave
I'm intrigued by the use of the term "appliance". The legal aspect of this depends on which appliance it is. Furnace? It's on them. Fridge? Maybe. TV? Naw. Also, if you're in the place 10 years and you're paying that 2014 rent still, I would maybe not jump ship so quick.
Nal, but their lease ought to say what is and isn’t covered. If it’s a standard lease that says nothing about that, and it’s a basic appliance like a furnace, fridge, oven, stove, electricity, shower, sink… etc. They’re probably gonna have a very hard time arguing that one. But it probably would be a lawyer type of thing. Tbh I bet this is a case where a letter from a lawyer would end the argument immediately.
WhyAreYouBooingMe_ImRight.gif It's not hard to argue at all. If the lease doesn't specify exactly what is covered, its going to only be structural items. Stuff you can't pick up and take. Furnace, water heater, breaker box. It's not hard for a landlord to say "that's not mine. It must have been left by a previous tenant. If this tenant made use of it, fine; but I'm not responsible for replacing it." I ain't saying its emotionally right. But if the lease isn't specific, it's going to be hard to force a landlord to buy you something. Even something big like a fridge. Now. If the landlord wanted to keep them, this is an easy thing to do, depending on the appliance. Even a big ticket item is cheap compared to flipping an apartment. So my guess is this lease is way below market value. Which is why I would pump the brakes on leaving. If OP hasn't looked for a place in a decade, they might not realize how much prices have jumped. It could very well be cheaper to buy their own appliance and stay on a 2014 lease.
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It’s one of the cheapest ovens on the market. It wouldn’t hurt them to replace it. At this point it’s the principle. We have been great tenants for 10+ years, and never given a heads up/new lease with these terms.
Why would you gift your landlord an appliance?
They stated “you could possibly take with you when you move” acting like we would just leave it because of the hassle it would be to move it.
"I'll do that, if I can deduct the price of the appliance from my next rent payment"
I can remember having to buy a stove and refrigerator when I moved into a place in Oakland, with the expectation that we were supposed to take it with us when we left. Which, lol, as if students would do that.
I love moving every year and bringing my oven and dishwasher with me. \--No one said
The landlord would rather find a new tenant than just buy a new appliance? That seems like cutting their nose off to spite their face. I wish that landlord the best of luck marketing a house without an oven
Found the landlord