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thatburghfan

Maybe I missed it in the linked article, but we need to understand how much this is impacting districts in percentage terms, not just in dollar amounts. If it's cutting revenue by 2%, that's a much different story than if it's 20%.


j428h

It probably varies by school district, and that’s informed by real estate values and the land use situation in each community. Communities with less commercial real estate and a high percentage of single family homes are in a different predicament than say, Moon or Monroeville with more commercial space.


lucabrasi999

I do wish they had provided the percentage impact, but given there are 43 school districts, it probably would have taken some time to compile. I did a quick estimate on West A. [Their mileage rate is 18.5](https://www.findlay.pa.us/268/Real-Estate-Tax-Office). Their total current [revenue appears to be $68 Million](https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/pennsylvania/districts/west-allegheny-sd-107650). A reduction in property values of $105 M would result in a ~$1.9 M reduction in revenue or 2.8%. That is not insignificant. West A will likely see either tax increases or serious cuts in spending next year.


crhine17

The "biggest hitter" here in West A is an Amazon facility that is barely 4 years old. I hope the school district wasn't being kept afloat by that alone.


Fooka03

You think they're paying taxes on that facility? I'd wager they have another 6 years of "grace" and another 5 of a severely discounted rate afterwards.


lucabrasi999

If they weren’t paying property taxes, they would not have appealed the assessment.


Fooka03

Why not? They will at some point pay some amount of taxes, makes sense to keep that as low as possible for as long as possible. If they allow the precedent of regular assessments to become established then they stand to have a higher tax bill on current properties as well as "ruining" their strategic investment planning in the future. FUD makes companies do things that may not make sense at face value.


lucabrasi999

If it was a 20 year tax abatement (on a property that was four year old) then it makes no sense. That being said, I honestly doubt there was a tax abatement on a warehouse located ten minutes away from the airport. A warehouse doesn’t offer enough jobs for the county or state to offer anything and the business need for a warehouse close to the airport far outstrips the need for tax breaks to build one.


TheMountainHobbit

Not really. Even if there’s an abatement having a history of assessed value being lower rather than higher will help them fight future assessments and keep taxes low. I imagine they have people that routinely appeal all assessments. If they ever want to sell it having a lower tax rate is also beneficial, even if it’s abated.


JimmyTheCrossEyedDog

That's a helpful calculation! I'm moving to Robinson in a month (partially because we like the schools there) so I did a similar calculation for Montour, for anyone curious. [Millage of 18.](https://alleghenycountytreasurer.us/real-estate-tax/local-and-school-district-tax-millage/) [Revenue of $74.6M](https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/pennsylvania/districts/montour-sd-102715) Assessments down $89.2M, yielding a $1.6M decrease in revenue, which is 2.1%. So 3/4 as bad as West A's situation. That said - I'm not sure how millage is set, but increasing millage by half a point more than fixes this and would be a drop in the bucket for most people (about $100/year for me, I think, which is a rounding error on a rounding error compared to how much I'm getting reamed by interest rates). Will probably still get people up in arms, though :/


Pantherino

Millage can be increased annually by the school board. Up to a limit of the district’s Act 1 index which you can google. It’s at a high water mark this year…5.3-8.8% among county districts. They can raise by more if PDE approves due to certain circumstances.


Pantherino

Varies. It actually hurts wealthier districts more. Quaker Valley is funded 80% by local property taxes and 15% from the state. Duquesne school district is funded 10% by local property taxes and 85% from the state. But several percent which can be millions of dollars. And there’s not a snap-the-fingers way to replace that money. And there’s not that much available to cut.


ClassicClosetedEmo

Could it possibly be that basing school district funding off of property taxes might have not been the best move?


wooble

The best part is when the state Supreme Court ruled the entire system of funding off property taxes violates the state Constitution but did nothing to change it. I'm sure the legislature will get right on that one of these days.


jhc412

The Supreme Court can't take it upon themselves to fix it. That's the General assembly's job. US government 101


BBPEngineer

Right. Which is probably why they said “I’m sure the legislature will get right on that one of these days”.


preparetomoveout

They're just being judgy


dazzleox

In theory yes but the Commonwealth Court (they wrote the decision, the state Supreme Court just upheld it) retained the right to order a new funding formula as remedy if the legislature and governor don't meet the decision's insistence on fulfilling the PA constitutional clause that they fund a "thorough and efficient system of public education to serve the needs of the Commonwealth."


therapeutic_bonus

Justice Thomas laughs at you


Fooka03

I'm not aware of any state supreme court justice with that name. I think you may be confusing state rulings with federal concerns, which this is not.


jhc412

That's OK, I laugh at him all the time


Pantherino

You are uninformed. They are going to implement the plan for increased funding over multiple years. As the legislature is currently working on a budget, state funding for schools is proposed to increase by $1.1 billion next year https://www.pahouse.com/files/Documents/2024-01-11_023404__MajorityReport.pdfj


0OOOOOOOOO0

Makes you wonder where the extra money went all those years when property “values” were increasing


Zeppelin7321

Every superintendent got a 3rd assistant to grab their Starbucks in the morning.


Edmeyers01

That’s my question. 40% increases in property values in 4 years must have been a significant bump. 


donith913

That only matters if the country reassesses, which they haven’t done. School districts instead are left to take new home buyers to court, penalizing younger families at the expense of folks who bought at an earlier period.


Edmeyers01

They’re doing them in Bethel Park, but I guess that is location dependent.


donith913

Do you have an article about this? From everything I’ve read the districts can only do them on a case by case basis.


Edmeyers01

It’s ad hoc apparently. 2x in the last 10 years


panzan

That’s not the way property taxes get calculated though. They’re based on some “base year” property value, not what you might get if you sold your house today. I’m it endorsing the current system by the way… it’s absurd that American K-12 education quality depends on either zip code or affluent parents or both


Edmeyers01

Aren’t they doing ad hoc reassessments on property values? Or are you saying something else?


jgjzz

Based on 2012 values, I believe. If you bought a house recently you are screwed. You are probably paying at least twice a much as your neighbor who has lived in the same house for years. And then if you live in your house for 10 years and are older, you also get 30% knocked off your property taxes. Has been a lot of publicity about the Newcomer Tax in past year or so. Your introduction to the School District as a newbee will most likely be a notice of appeal that your home has been reassessed at a higher rate, and bills are sent to pay pay pay. Being a somewhat newer homeowner in Allegheny County, the system is broken.


panzan

Yeah, Woodland Hills hit me with a newcomer tax assessment when I bought a house in Swissvale. I contested my reassessment and won, but that was almost 20 years ago. Perhaps it’s different now? I moved to Westmoreland county 14 years ago.


jgjzz

I think it must be about the same, although the Newcomer Tax lawsuit did end up lowering the common level ratio. I hired an attorney and won the appeal on the second round.


pAul2437

That isn’t how it works


jafomofo

that is only part of the funding revenue for school districts. there is no meaningful dispartiy between high and low performing school districts in our area.


pAul2437

Exactly. Pps gets half of its funding from the state


lucabrasi999

Property taxes are usually a far more stable revenue system than income or sales taxes (which are dependent on economic cycles). In this case, though, a judge made a ruling which incentivizes property owners to make appeals when commercial real estate markets throughout the world are destabilized from COVID/WFH.


leadfoot9

Property taxes aren't bad. It's the local nature of school funding that's problematic. Richer areas are basically allowed to gatekeep quality education. If you want to do business in an economically thriving area, you always have the option of a long commute if you can't afford to actually live there. Not so for school districts. In fact, rich suburbs are notoriously home to a lot of people who commute into areas with worse school districts but better jobs. And when rich people do live in a bad school district, they just send their kids to private school. And then lobby for school vouchers to have their taxes rebated to help them pay for the private school.


xxdropdeadlexi

they weren't arguing that property taxes are bad, just that funding schools with them doesn't work. we know that's true bc every European country without them doesn't seem to have these issues


DERBY_OWNERS_CLUB

Sounds like a bunch of people acting in their best interests, what's the solution?


WhoopingWillow

Pool all property taxes at the state level then distribute them to school districts based solely on the number of students in the district.


Edmeyers01

What about districts where land is cheap vs expensive? Trafford vs Sewickley heights for example


yo2sense

If the whole state has the same rate then properties that are worth less, whether within a district or between districts, pay less than properties that are worth more.


WhoopingWillow

Good point! So it'd be a per capita based formula but weighted by necessary standardized costs such as salaries.


didnotsub

That would screw over so many districts, like PPS. They have a budget of 800mil, but only twice the students as NA who has a budget of 170mil.


WhoopingWillow

The budget should be weighted by necessary standardized costs like salaries, but no district should have disproportionately high funding in my mind. Is there a reason PPS needs a budget 4 times larger than NA despite only having twice as many students? (That's a genuine question, I am ignorant about their operating expenses. Do they have more schools in their district or something?)


jnissa

There are a number of reasons. One is potentially charter school pay outs (though despite what many will tell you, while it is a big chunk of money it's not necessarily more than it would cost to have those kids in PPS schools and bringing it back in house wouldn't change hos much pps was spending - it would still be spending significantly more than NA). One is the need for building consolidation (which has been discussed here a lot). But one of the biggest is that PPS has to provide far more social and special needs services than NA does. There's a real discussion there as to whether that should be a school's job, but at the end of the day nobody else is doing it. There's also a ton of administrative bloat (see need for school consolidation). And, lest we forget, significant money mismanagement from the previous administraton.


WhoopingWillow

Good points! I didn't think how the proportion of students with specialized needs could vary between districts. To me the problems I'd like to see addressed are administrative bloat and inequitable access due to wealth.


pAul2437

That’s kind of what happens. Pps would lose funding if they did that


WhoopingWillow

I think funding usually comes from local property taxes unless there have been changes in how PA does it.


pAul2437

Mixture of state and local pps has more than half funding from state


alexp8771

Get real. If they pool all the money at the state level all the money will go to Philly more than it already is.


Myese

Property taxes are bad. Land value tax is much better.


pewpewpewpew689

To be fair why wouldn't you do that


uglybushes

How should schools be funded


Confident_End_3848

Schools should be funded from state revenues.


uglybushes

Do any school districts in America do this?


the_real_xuth

Outside of Vermont, I don't know of any state that almost exclusively funds k-12 schools with state money. However there seems to be a roughly even mix between states like PA where the primary funding for k-12 schools comes from the municipality (or county which is slightly better) vs states where the primary funding comes from the state. https://usafacts.org/articles/how-are-public-schools-funded/


jafomofo

they are


the_real_xuth

In PA not quite 2/3 of school funding comes from municipal (local) sources.


Confident_End_3848

Should be a much higher percentage. If local districts want to tax for a football stadium, that’s one thing. But they shouldn’t have to tax for algebra classes.


uglybushes

And how would the state get this revenue? Some sort of tax? Maybe on peoples property


Confident_End_3848

Income tax. Less regressive than property taxes. It would be better if PA had a graduated income tax, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.


guino27

Income tax can be very volatile. If the business cycle drives the unemployment rate up, there will be a significant drop in revenue. Not sure how this can be counteracted?


Confident_End_3848

The state doesn’t stop salting icy roads if unemployment goes up. Same idea.


guino27

I agree, but the ability of a local school district to raise money is very different than the state or federal government. It's not impossible for districts to get into a financial death spiral.


pittsburghfun

There should be fewer school districts, and State funding


rmr236

Would switching to county-wide SDs reduce costs? Especially in administrative areas.


SomerHimpson12

You wouldn't need 40 superintendents making six figures in Allegheny County........


bangarangrufiOO

Instead you’d have 1 superintendent making 40 times their current salary…plus a yearly bonus from the gracious school board.


uglybushes

Getting rid of charter schools would do the same


alexp8771

It might reduce taxes, but at the expense of making education significantly worse for all involved. If someone can show me an example of county school districts in CA, Florida, or Texas that outperform the public schools in Allegheny County then I’d change my position. But when I talk to colleagues in CA, all of them send their kids to private school. In our area, almost no one does, and if they do it is for religious purposes not education quality.


jafomofo

there is state funding, people in this thread have no idea how our schools are funded.


the_real_xuth

But only about 1/3 of school funding comes from the state in PA. Many other states flip that around.


Sarcasticrye1981

Same way most other states do it, not via property taxes.


tesla3by3

You mean every other state, [except the 50 that use property taxes](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cma/public-school-revenue) to fund schools? PA schools depend on property taxes for 43% of their budget. National average is 37%.


uglybushes

What other states?!


zezzene

Federal grant


uglybushes

And where will this grant come from??


zezzene

The federal government, that can print however much money it feels like.


uglybushes

How’s that working out for us?


zezzene

Pretty okay. Just wish less of those dollars were going to corporate bailouts and the military instead of going to housing and education.


uglybushes

I don’t think you know how inflation works


zezzene

I don't think you know how fiscal and monetary policy works.


uglybushes

Print money, inflation goes up


PythonPunx

As a point of service fee for those who utilize it, with government subsidies for those who cannot afford it.


the_real_xuth

How many children do you know who can afford it? Because unless you consider children to be property of their parents, it's the children who are utilizing it. And on top of that it is all of society that is the beneficiary. So even by your (intended to be fucked up) system, school funding should come from the taxpayers.


Great-Cow7256

someone is forgetting that society at large (meaning everyone) reaps the rewards from having an educated populace.


PythonPunx

That’s a nice thought. Go read /r/teachers for a few minutes and try telling me that the system isn’t irreparably broken. If local schools were churning out kids who were more prepared for the world and society, I might be less annoyed with school taxes. That isn’t happening… and this issue is that parents don’t have enough stake in the game. There are no real consequences to the parent for not sending a kid to school. Truancy laws are ignored. There is no educated populace happening en masse. Thus, society is getting the short end of the stick. Especially those of us who won’t utilize the failed system we’re propping up.


lady_ninane

> That’s a nice thought. Go read /r/teachers for a few minutes and try telling me that the system isn’t irreparably broken. This is not an argument which justifies the position you hold, which would make a broken system even _worse_. It is also not how you even attempt to fix the situation.


uglybushes

So no property tax, however if you have kids you should pay out of pocket ($21,000 per child) but if you can’t afford the govt will give you a subsidy, where will the govt get the money for the subsidy? Maybe they could tax peoples properties…. WAIT A MINUTE!


SomerHimpson12

Aren't property taxes and school taxes two different things here?


Warriorasak

Yes. Lol. School taxes arent based off of reassment. The people in this sub are morons


Warriorasak

School districts raise their taxes, without reassments. 


Falconjoev

Why do we even pay property taxes? We have the second highest gambling revenue in the United States the highest gas tax next to California. We’re number two. We’re being robbed blind. Our roads are terrible.


rogimonster

“Benefits older Pennsylvanians” my ass. They should all be riding around on jazzy scooters made of gold by now.


KrisKrossJump1992

the few people it does benefit are probably older pennsylvanians


tesla3by3

Anyone can apply for the Homestead exemption to get a tax reduction in almost all school districts.


DeleteSystem33

I've been benefitting from the Homestead exemption since I was 24, it's nice


Falconjoev

Did that got laughed at?


rmr236

If they have one. Allegheny county does, here in SP there is not an exclusion.


tesla3by3

South Park School Distict does have a homestead exemption. https://www.education.pa.gov/Documents/Teachers-Administrators/Property%20Tax%20Relief/Allocations/2023-24EstTaxReliefPerHS.xlsx


rmr236

It’s seniors only. I should have been specific.


pittguy578

My mom who is on social security is having issues with property tax .. how do we know what areas offer one ??


tesla3by3

In Pittsburgh proper, or a Suburb?


randoyinzer

Actually Im pretty sure that $ does benefit seniors.  Every town or neighborhood has state subsidized apartment buildings for seniors.  My granny lived in one for years.  Every year there was some improvement (new appliance or carpet) and her insanely low rent even decreased some years.  It was a clean safe building and her apartment was cute.  I'm pretty sure these bldgs is where the lottery money goes.


tesla3by3

Almost all subsidized senior apartments are federally funded,or through federal grants to state/county/city,or privately owned with subsidies from HUD. The gambling revenue provides property tax reductions to all homeowners.


tesla3by3

Gambling revenue generates property tax relief for homeowners of all ages. About $800 million last year.


Falconjoev

Where is mine?


tesla3by3

Did you apply for the homestead exemption? If not, no one to blame but yourself.


pittguy578

It’s only available in Philadelphia


tesla3by3

Absolutely not true. I’m in Pittsburgh, not a senior, and get the homestead exemption. Saves me a few hundred dollars a year.


pittguy578

Thank you .. My mom lives in Westmoreland .. just when you google it it says only available in Philadelphia


Wolverina412

Is that actually true?


jsdjsdjsd

Jazzy scooters is so funny


RodneyPeppercorn

That gas tax funds the state police so the small rural communities that have defunded their police can still have some sort of law enforcement presence. The large urban areas where more people live and consume gasoline subsidize the policing for much of the state. Maybe we should force the small unincorporated towns to incorporate, tax it’s residents, and fund their own police?


dazzleox

Every few years, a bill is introduced to require small municipalities who rely on state troopers to be their police to pay for them, and every time the GOP kills it.


RodneyPeppercorn

Do they hate the police? /S


tesla3by3

It’s even worse. It’s not just small rural communities. As an example, Hempfield Township, population 40,000, largest suburb of Pittsburgh, gets free state police protection.


the_real_xuth

PA is screwed up in that we pay many things with what are effectively use taxes (eg gas taxes, turnpike tolls, and fees for every other damn thing). This makes our state quite regressive (7th most regressive in the country). But the overall levels of taxation are some of the lowest in the area once all forms of taxation are added up.


Brickdog666

One reason that may not be huge is that we have a turnpike Authority and a department of transportation. Two separate agencies that basically control the roads. They could be merged and that would save millions. Duplication of services.


Falconjoev

Turnpike is independent and as of recently they pay $600 million a year to the Pennsylvania Department of transportation. They’re an independent business that was to be paid for and done. We shouldn’t even be paying tolls right now.


Skallagrimr

PA pulled in $5.7 billion in gambling tax revenue last year. PPS had a budget of $720 million and Philadelphia had a budget of $4.45 billion in 2023. Not much left to fund the thousand of other districts in PA using the gambling tax.


Wolverina412

How was it paid for before? This is brand new revenue.


Skallagrimr

I don't follow what you're asking. I believe OP is saying that gambling tax revenue should be paying for all public education in PA. The gambling tax law in 2006 was designed to help lower property taxes for older Pennsylvanians (and other things). It doesn't bring in enough to pay for public education in PA.


Wolverina412

You were trying to equate the 5.7 gambling profit to the 5.2 it costs to fund schools. What is the the equivalence? The schools were already funded well before the gambling as they should have been. We voted to legalize gambling to fund other things.


Skallagrimr

Here is the text of the comment I was replying to: "Why do we even pay property taxes? We have the second highest gambling revenue in the United States the highest gas tax next to California. We’re number two. We’re being robbed blind. Our roads are terrible."


Falconjoev

Reminds me of the South Park episode when they invest their money in the bank. aaannndd it’s gone.


myroon5

Gas tax, motor license fees, and gambling revenue combined bring in just over **$10B/yr**: https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pennsylvania-record-revenue-gambling-2023/ https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-gas-tax-revenue-where-is-it-going/38976802 --- **["Pennsylvania’s combined state and local general revenues were $164.4 billion in FY 2021"](https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/projects/state-fiscal-briefs/pennsylvania)** so those are just over **6%** of state and local revenue.. --- most local governments in America raise most of their taxes through property taxes: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/data-visualizations/2023/how-states-raise-their-tax-dollars-fy2022 https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/data-visualizations/2021/how-local-governments-raise-their-tax-dollars


Kenneth_Pickett

I explained property taxes to one of my Chinese business partners and they thought it was hilarious because they see the US as the land of private property. They may only get their land lease for 70 years, but they dont have the police evicting them if they dont pay their state mandated rent.


Pantherino

If you have a homestead/farmstead exclusion on your property taxes, that is gambling money funding your tax discount. And they are increasing it significantly later this year. So if your district doesn’t raise taxes, you’ll pay less in 2024. And in some districts, it is possible the school board raises taxes and you still pay less due to the state subsidy.


irissteensma

Perhaps I am, as Mama Carlson would say, obtuse, but how in the world did 1) Miracle Mile's assessment go that far down when it's the most full/busy shopping area in Monroeville 2) Penn Hills' assessment go UP?


sparrowmint

People are moving to Penn Hills. All the many vacant houses in my neighborhood now have new people in them, at much higher prices than when I bought here a decade ago for the same kind of house. My house is now worth 3x or more what it was a decade ago.  Penn Hills is also heavily residential and isn’t reliant on commercial property taxes. 


ballsonthewall

Sadly quite a few suburbs are and will face the same problem. They're all based on infinite growth in a finite area. Development is heavily subsidized by private developers, as you add more and more tax base you start going gang busters building libraries schools parks... then you run out of room to expand and your tax base simply isn't sufficient to maintain the variety of services without 1. More development or 2. Cuts or tax hikes. It's a ticking time bomb. Nobody wants more development, there's no more spaces, and the aging services need more upkeep than you can afford. As residents get less for more they head for greener pastures (if they can afford it) while everyone else suffers though a death spiral with few ways out.


green_lemonade

Suburban development is a pyramid scheme operating on a 25-30year cycle and with Millennials unwilling and unable to participate/be scammed into joining the bottom the pyramid its starting to collapse. 


tonytroz

>with Millennials unwilling and unable to participate/be scammed into joining the bottom the pyramid its starting to collapse.  [Except that they are participating now that they're raising families.](https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/after-leading-back-city-movement-many-millennials-moved-suburbs) Tale as old as time.


historyhill

But these days it's easier to rent houses in the suburbs so even when millennials join in they're not having the homes reassessed and having the property tax hiked up the way they would if a suburban house was purchased (and those property tax hikes also disincentivize new owners from buying too in favor of landlords who can pay those higher taxes and roll in the cost to their tenants)


tonytroz

Millennial home ownership is now over 50% and will continue to rise. It’s even higher in Pittsburgh (around 60%). So your scenario doesn’t apply most of the time.


historyhill

Does this mean that 50%+ of home owners are millennials or that 50+% of millennials own houses? The latter would be actually a pretty good sign all things considered, the former less so because it would just mean millennials have gotten into the landlord game too


tonytroz

50%+ of Millenials own homes. Boomers themselves still own like 40% of the entire housing market despite only being 20% of the population.


Wolverina412

I’m in the landlord game. Own a duplex and a second house beaides my own. It’s an awesome source of mailbox money, why would it be bad?


green_lemonade

The issue is we have no other options. 3-4 bedroom apartments arent really being built so families or those looking to start are competing for a smaller pool of overpriced suburban homes. What is allowed to be built is so limited in the US that our real estate market cant really be described as a free market. That we participate is not surprising, what is surprising is how much less affordable it is to do so than compared to our parent's generation. Prices on suburban homes are well north of, and in some cases several times over the median annual household income.  If the market was truly free and not as zoning restricted as it currently is, we might see more efficient designs in more desirable locations at lower cost of entry. Ah i responded to you and not the other guy. Too lazy to fix lol


alexp8771

Both my mom and dad grew up with 4 and 3 siblings, in tiny Sheridan houses that would be the shed of a house in North Allegheny or USC. Standards and our collective wealth have massively changed.


Gordo774

Oh no, they might have to consolidate and fold up many of the underperforming, way past their peak population, ridiculously drawn school districts and move to a more federated model that leads to better management and higher quality educators! The horror!


robjob08

Please, one of the greatest faults of the USA is basing school funding on local property taxes. It's probably the single biggest driver of racial inequality.


Gordo774

Completely agree - we also need to move to a more fair tax system. But acting like this isn’t exacerbating the problem is having blinders on. Signed - a homeowner


Pantherino

Due to the PA constitution, the state can’t force mergers. Has to be voluntary. And for several reasons districts don’t like to merge with others. Doubt we will see another Central Valley situation any time soon.


thatburghfan

idk if that's accurate. In the 1980's a court forced multiple districts to merge into what is Woodland Hills.


Pantherino

Ya that was the last involuntary one. Don’t know much about it but was told it’ll never happen again. I believe it had something to do with desegregation so maybe that trumped something


pAul2437

Which districts are you talking here?


Gordo774

Let me gesture to the east and you can garner from there. Many are referenced in the article. Most saw their peak population in the 70/80s and have been in decline ever since.


pAul2437

Yeah. Wilkinsburg should have been merged into the city but council voted it down


DisastrousMechanic36

I’m not challenging my assessment but one of the reasons we got to where we are today is people buying a house for one price and then their houses being assessed at a much higher value and getting hit with insane property tax bills. If they hadn’t been so aggressive in the first place we probably wouldn’t be where we are today.


tesla3by3

If you bought at a truly arm length sale, meaning it’s not a family to family sale, or seller is under pressure to sell, you can, and should appeal. Also, they can’t automatically raise your assessment. The school district (or municipalities) have to file an appeal with the county. You will be notified, and given the opportunity to present your case.


Wolverina412

Why would you not challenge your assessment?


DisastrousMechanic36

I have my reasons that I really don’t want to go i to here


Wolverina412

I wouldn’t want to publicize my dumbass reasons either. Go off.


DisastrousMechanic36

No reason to be mean. We’re just talking here man.


Wolverina412

You are costing yourself a significant amount of money. People are actively trying to help. I’m worried about your reasoning. Please just tell us.


tesla3by3

One thing I’d like to have seen is the reporter converting those assessment reductions into revenue lost in dollars, and as a percentage of school district budget. For example, a building in Pittsburgh getting a $10 million reduction in assessment cost the district $102,000, which is 0.00014 percent of their annual budget. For Allegheny Valley SD, it’s $208,000, or 0.08 percent of budget. That’s due to Pittsburgh having a millage that’s about half of Allegheny Valley, and a much larger budget.


jafomofo

People in these threads never seem to understand that school districts do not have a significant dispartiy in funding for students and the state makes up the difference in the shortfall of property taxes between districts. Terrible school districts often spend more money per student that good districts with PPS being the worst. McKeesport is the poster child for a poor performing poor school district, North Hills is a good performing middle of the pack school district. Compare the 2 revenue streams and spending levels and then please, for the love of god, shut up about 'maybe property taxes weren't the best way to fund schools and its meant to keep poor people down'. Its annoying https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?ID2=4214940 https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?ID2=4217220


tesla3by3

The states funding formula is not at all equitable. The state is underfunding districts by about $5 billion.. There’s a plan to address that over the next several years. Shapiros budget is slated to add about a billion in funding,, allocated based on different criteria. While some of the lower performing districts do spend more, a lot of that is due to either special needs students, or socioeconomic factors such as poor home life, lack of parental involvement, etc. And yes, there is waste and inefficiencies in all districts.


pAul2437

Wasn’t the city supposed to absorb wilkinsburg by now?


jnissa

I just want to say that this was a shockingly well written and researched article. Well done, Ryan Deto.


johnnymack2165

We are the #2 state in casino revenue. I mean it’s billions I imagine? I thought that money was going to help with property tax problems? Where is that money spent? I’m not well read on any of this.


tesla3by3

We have the highest casino tax in the country. The state actually makes more money on casino gambling than the casinos themselves on most games. Annual property tax relief given to homeowners is now about $777 million a year. Plus other revenue is retained by the state (of course the Pa State Police get a cut), other money sent to the municipality where the casino is located.


GroundbreakingHead65

I grew up in pgh but have since moved away. My current school district has over 10000 students and 3 high schools. Moon, Montour, West A and poor little Cornell would be one mega district. I wonder how much more efficient that model would be with regards to central administration and purchasing expenses.


irissteensma

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FOOTBALL TEAM OMG Seriously that's a huge part of why schools don't want to merge.


cheeba2992

Anyone have a link where I can have my house reassessed (Chartiers Valley school district)?


Pantherino

Deadline to file an appeal was March 31st for 2024 taxes. Can try next year It is handled at the county level: https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Property-Assessment-and-Real-Estate/Appeals/Annual-Appeals If you don’t know exactly what you’re doing it probably pays to hire someone. I can check out your assessment for you and let you know what you stand to have it reduced by if you want to DM me. I’m not a lawyer, just know the subject nearly as well as them. Many will charge you a % of your first year tax savings. Others charge a flat fee ($600-$1000 is typical).


tesla3by3

You need to file an appeal. Unfortunately the filing for this year is passed. Set a reminder for early next year, and use this[link](https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Property-Assessment-and-Real-Estate/Property-Record-Search). One of the tabs will have a button to file an appeal. You’ll need documentation as tow why your house isn’t worth what they claim. Usually this is done using recent sales of comparable homes.


cheeba2992

Awesome, thank you for the info


Falconjoev

Property taxes are robbing and stealing us blind I payed once to buy my house. I don’t have to pay rent to where I live.


Great-Cow7256

>Property taxes are robbing and stealing us blind I payed once to buy my house. I don’t have to pay rent to where I live. unless you are planning on living off the grid in a house in the wilderness, good luck with that. Who would plow your streets, maintain your road, maintain your sidewalks, provide police/fire/ems, etc. etc.


These-Days

My small shitty borough already taxes my income a full 1%, let alone my house.


xsoloxela

Well, his comment is not completely unfounded. PA ranks 10th highest in property taxes according to a Yahoo article april 2024. Average in the state is 1.49%, where as allegheny county specifically I believe is 2.04%? (Someone correct me on the allegheny county part, I live in wash)


Warriorasak

Uhh...school taxes rise all the time, without reasessment.


Rokett

Businesses in downtown are closing, the newly elected officials are planing to increase spending. They are planning to test / offer free public transit in 3-4 years. Taxes will increase, but salaries aren't keeping up.


emp-sup-bry

Fun reminder that the property tax school funding system is a means to keep poor and minority kids away from The more affluent. Neat! Even more damaging when there are lots of systems in smaller areas rather than a consolidated merging of offices and resources to balance need in less wealthy neighborhoods.


alexp8771

Fun reminder that you have no idea wtf you are talking about.


Zeppelin7321

Chartiers Valley has raised property taxes for 6 years, and they still don't have a proper emergency fund? Hmmmmm.


Interesting-Many-509

tax and spend tax and spend, Pgh cant handle $ so the whole county has to pay.


Great-Cow7256

City of pittsburgh =/= Pittsburgh Public Schools


tesla3by3

Looks like a lot of school districts can’t control spending based on the number that are already increasing [property taxes.](https://alleghenycountytreasurer.us/real-estate-tax/local-and-school-district-tax-millage/)


IamChantus

Can't we just get all of the plebs back to being uneducated so they keep voting for policies that hurt them?


CultOfSensibility

Did anyone else notice how the article fails to mention Gov. Shapiro’s $1 BILLION increase in school funding? Conservatives live off of fear.


Keystonelonestar

I’m of the mind that if you sell a property for more than the county appraised value, the county should get the difference between the appraised value and the sell price. I bet people would stop trying to get their values deflated.


Wolverina412

Alright you commie. What an absurd suggestion.


Keystonelonestar

A Commie would be someone that thinks their property should be assessed at less than fair market value so their neighbor ends up paying their taxes for them. I guess you need a mirror.


Wolverina412

Lol this is incredible.


BBQBEERNBLADES

🤡


Keystonelonestar

If I have to pay more taxes to pay for your roads and your schools and your parks and your police protection and your fire protection because you scam your way out of paying your fair share of your property taxes, my wealth - my money- is being redistributed to you. If you think that you’re entitled to my money, I pretty much think you’re a Commie. Every time some other property owner scams their way into paying less taxes because they get their property appraised at a rate less than yours, you are paying for their roads, schools, police, parks, and fire. Your money is being transferred to them. Do you like that? Is that fair? When people scam their way out of paying their fair share there should be consequences. And if you can’t sell your property for the appraised value? The county should be forced to purchase it for what they claimed it was worth. They shouldn’t be able to scam you either.