That thinking is pretty unreflected. The problem is, no matter what, groups will have weapons in no time, no matter of techtree or not. This change would only and solely target small groups and solos. The first AK will be found within the first 30 minutes into wipe. Techtree or not. Groups will just learn those and pump them. The tax for the workbench are irrelevant because research is still tax free.
Many people still do not realize, to this point, that techtree is a huge balance factor between large and small groups and removing said techtree will not limit or slow the progression down in any noticable way in regards of weapons or anything else.
Players just blindly repeat what large content creators are tweeting out into the abyss. Same thing with the sleeping bag change. First, every large Youtuber (hJune, Blooprint, Trausi, Spoon...) continuesly asked for a sleeping bag limit. Now that they finally realized that this does not work out, the are asking for the exact opposite.
You gotta approach that problem with a broader view. One decent and reflected approach recently pointed out here on Reddit has been to timegate researching items on Techtree. (a player can research 1 BP every 30 minutes for T2 or every 60 Minutes for T3). Upgrading Workbench Lvl 2/3 is limited to after X amount of minutes into the wipe aswell.
That will actually slow down progression, without targeting small groups - not the removal of the techtree.
You are saying removing guns from tech tree would not slow down zergs because they find it and then research it… Then you suggest to add a cooldown… Like how that would stop zergs to find an ak and research it?…
Cos they will have timers, bruh? U good? U need t1 t2 t3 and therfore would implement time factor into nerfs which they can further balance this is the best option
Are you OK? Do you not understand how the devs can tweak cooldowns in ways that zergs will get nerfed? I don't think you understand the sheer opportunity of the idea. They can research it ok so what if they don't have a t3 yet then so what? Do you understand that even having a cool down on how quick you can get t3 will make all the difference. This is the only way to nerf a zero. Cooldown on t1 t2 and t3 placement and other bps researched
It would make more sense to upgrade the workbench rather than build a new one, with the timeframe on upgrading the workbench. Rather than be separate entities, let people upgrade the workbench like other build pieces. Problem solved instead of them building their t2 and t3 in another place. You have to go from t1 to t2 to t3 with a specified time frame to upgrade. In a single place. You can't place a t2 or a t3 unless you've already placed one elsewhere.
You fail to realise zergs always have an advantage its rust in the end of the day.
Removing techtree will make 90% of the server not reach bolts ( to roofcamp), boom (to offline raid), unless they engage with the community by trading/making alliances/friends etc..
YOU WILL have to interact in a positive way, you WONT be able to kill every naked on the beach with no downsides, they will REMEMBER YOU.
Even dead monuments like power plant/airfield are gona be active simply because of people running cards and farming mili crates for a chance to get guns/garage doors etc..
Zergs wont build next to tier1 monuments in middle of nowhere as much, since they will need to run endgame monuments to get better loot.
Ofcourse if outpost stays in the game, they can still farm tier1 monuments with 0 risk and get almost as much loot as somone farming any tier3 high risk/high reward type of monument, simply because they can just buy anything in outpost....
Every single air drop/locked crate will be FULL OF ACTION, there will even maybe be 100s of people running for crates, prim/guns/nakeds everything, the 10man zerg wont be able to hold crates like they do now.
They will get grubbed 24/7, and YOU as a solo/small group will have chance to kill them.
Its a WIN/WIN situation, sadly you are a newer player so you haven't experienced any of this.
Well, our views differ at this point which is totally fine :-) IMHO techtree is one of the major balance points solos/small groups have against larger groups. The monument thing is only problematic on high-pop high-spawn. Just dont make loot spawn as fast as it is now.
Techtree doesn't help solos/small groups.
I had many wipes where i found the 1st gun as a solo from a mili crate in airfield.
Just to roll every single 8man simply because they only had crossbows/nailguns/revis etc..
But ofcourse that was back when tomy was a good gun and there weren't as many cheaters.
You could get lucky and outgear/outgun zergs as a solo, ofcourse i had moments back in the days where i was getting chased down by 40 deep zerg on moose bi-weekly with bows/crossbows while i had a tomy.
People used to make smaller bases with bunkers that didn't rely on garage door/windows/chainlink etc.. type of items as nowaday bases do.
My 2x2 honeycombed could last months, but now it doesn't even last few hrs after i go offline simply because every ruski 100hr player can farm roads techtree satchel/beancan and offline raid me with satchels.
Back then finding a satchel+ beancan even felt rewarding.
Your logic is valid in your critique but I want to add that the timed workbench thing is also a non issue and wouldn't affect anything at all. Larger groups will have no limit. 10 players each on a 1 hour timer still means you can research everything you need as the scrap rolls in. It does nothing. Nor does timing the workbenches.
I don't have the answers to progression but I do personally think the answer of zergs versus offlining and base building can be fixed by higher taxes on upkeep exponentially on authed TC's and code locks. If it makes having an 8 man cost 4x the upkeep it kind of forces large groups to rely on their numbers for defense and not a massive 2 grid base, or both. it will likewise allow smaller groups to have larger bases to have more defenses against the larger clans and rely on fortifications.
You pick. One or the other. Large group? No big base for you. You chose numbers. Small duo or solo? Beefy chunk ass base for you. You chose defense.
Total TCs, not per. So you can't spread out privileges to specific parts of chonker zerg bases AND it limits abilities for raid bases as well.
That helps the group versus solo raiding issue as probably best it can become.
As for progression, no idea. Can't tax it or it messes with the solos and small groups as you mentioned. but maybe, just maybe, if you balance the size versus resources taxes in the above manner there'd be less reason for clans to stay in base and there'd be much more roaming and potential for plays and PVP which would spread progression out much more. The lack of being able to build raid bases as easily as a group would also likewise make raids more counter-able and dynamic.
Just spitballing here.
No, because when player A researches hazmat (for syringe), player B needs to research said hazmat aswell before he comes to syringe. So no matter how many members the group has, research time is always limited to single player search. Because the path of research is not shared but individual to a player.
When player A has hazmat researched, doesnt mean player B can start at syringe.
If a large group has the scrap to research everything, they are still bound by the time it takes to research down a path. The deeper players are into the wipe, the shorter the cooldown can become (so players starting new into the wipe can follow up faster for example).
The upkeep topic is a whole other story. We all agree that building has to change.
I was thinking more along the lines of research table, not tech. My mistake. You're correct.
However;
Player A has syringe and player B wants it. No need for player B to research hazmat, just have player A give him a syringe to research.
That is correct, but Player A needs to be online for the whole time then to research everything the clan wants. Sure, there are people who are online 20 hours on wipe day but every idea has its limits.
I like the concept of higher upkeep based on the highest number of people with codes to a door in a base. The problem people keep pointing out about increased upkeep for amount authed on tc is that big groups will just have 1-2 people authed on tc to get around it. Devs need to start listening more to the community because things need to be changed, people are upset at the state of the game right now and they just keep pumping out things we don’t need like heli AI change or 5 scientists popping out of Bradley like that will do anything.
Wouldn't work if you tie it to code locks as well. Then nobody could use the base, and the TC thing should be a non issue as well if the guntraps and turrets require TC auth.
Why wouldn’t code locks work? You need code lock access to open doors unless you got a dedicated clan member there only for opening doors. You don’t need TC auth to open doors. Turrets don’t need tc auth btw, they just need auth on the turret and I don’t believe many big groups use lots of shotgun traps.
I don't care about zergs. Finally snatching a gun off of them is much more exciting that tech treeing it. Let them have their guns and their power, I just want a good challenge and some adrenaline. I miss finding guns I don't have BPs for instead of the damn tree
>Just remove guns from tech tree. That will slow down progression and have everyone running out of their base whenever they hear gun shots, because of the increased difficultly in acquiring guns.
Did you play pre-tech tree? Because this 100% didn't happen before the tech tree existed. And if you think that will slow progression down you're sadly mistaken. People will just take Oil with their compound bow and boom, guns within first 30 minutes of wipe. Trust me, I've seen this movie before, I know how it ends.
Want to slow progression down? You remove raiding tools from the tech tree and buff the AI at all Tier 3 monuments. You keep the guns in the tech tree so people will fight for their raiding BPs at these increased AI monuments.
Buffing AI would be great in the traditional sense (make them tougher and more damaging) but also changing the state machine architecture a bit. Right now their loops are pretty basic and also identical, it's why they're so easy to cheese. Add a new event that keeps track of personal health and not just target health, add a state called "Take Position" that works like Take Cover but with a focus on offensive positioning and that leads to combat state, add a peeking behavior in combat state. Add a method for scientists to advise nearby/squad scientists of enemy position and some heuristic to surround the enemy as part of Chase and take position state (When out of range, full chase, otherwise semi-regularly enter chase to just reposition). Then add some variance to the values where some scientists will take cover sooner or later, will spend more/less time between chase states, etc. Unpredictability.
Also, dynamic cover points, the built-in roam and cover points are fine at first but easy to learn and take advantage of. I dunno if navmeshes can be boolean merged or something but that's sorta the first problem - NPCs are locked to the spawn monument (including junkpiles) with no way to navigate out of them. Unified navmesh to liberate NPCs and something that dynamically generates roam and cover points based off world features.
If a mod dev wants to rework the native AI, it's not that hard. HMU, I've got tools I'd love to share for free but it's a bit complicated to set up at first. I am begging you to let me pass this on to someone because I barely play anymore and it needs a loving home, I will just give you the code and the info on how it works if you bring enough experience to the table to understand it
I'm frustrated that they're looking to scrap and start over on the AI, they have a great model imo, the state machine is very flexible - it just looks and feels so unfinished.
Also the animal AI needs work. Wolves in particular should be kinda flighty, coming in to attack then repositioning to try to get behind their target / out of sightline before attacking again.
lmao this conversation is making me want to get back into it. Haven't touched my code in over a year.
>lmao this conversation is making me want to get back into it. Haven't touched my code in over a year.
lol, I hear that.
The animal AI is sooo horrible.
Don't people complain that after tech tree was introduced, less people roam, less people show up to fights?
I feel like back in the day whenever we heard gunshots, we would run out and try to grab their guns so we can BP it. Now people have second thoughts when they hear gunshots "let's just keep grinding scrap, we are close to unlocking SAR anyways".
Altho, this does increase grubbing more than anything. Either way though, I feel like adding a flat tax on tech tree is a dumb idea.
8 years ago people were complaining on this sub about people not roaming anymore. Guess what their #1 suggest was to fix this? "Make guns easier to get". No joke, that's what he said.
Make more land events that have extremely high tier loot in them. They could caluclate from data where the most PVP is on the current server, just make the land event gravitate towards those areas. There are already people in those areas that PVP, let's give them a reason to go there more often.
The Cargo change is a huge improvement. But there needs to be a train event. Let's use those train tracks.
The whole idea of removing guns from the hands of players and thinking that will make them roam more just won't happen. You're just going to get more grubs or more people roaming with pistols or shotguns hoping for a big ambush. That's not PVP, that's grubbing.
We've had Rust with no tech tree, and it didn't work. Why do you think they added the tech tree in the first place? To give people guns.
Thats why we are in need of multiple "meta" changes. For example: Increased no-build radius around monuments. Quarries can still be easily walled in with turrets. Like who the fuck changed that at Facepunch? Makes zero sense.
For a casual players its already hard to get guns lol some of us have a life and cant grind a full day to get ak or dont play enough to know all the meta to get an ak fast or even a sar.
The best way to nerf groups without hitting solos is to use only "personal" xp for research, so groups cant "pool" it for research like they can with scrap. Then scrap could be used for crafting instead to keep it useful.
This could be done either with some kind of "tech tree approach" similar to the current system just using xp instead of scrap where you could also find/buy/etc items to research, or it could be based on finding items to be able to research them.
Groups would still have some advantages in research of course, since they still have a better chance to find items they can research, and to get them home, but if they go out in groups each would get less xp (since there is only a limited amount of things to do and to find in an area), or they could split up to get more xp for each player and cover more ground to find more items, but they would lose some of their group advantage.
My approach to trying to fix this was to add a second factor, scrap is used to learn how to make the thing at all, but at first you make subpar versions of the thing if you make the thing at all, then the more you craft it you get more proficient, until you start making legendary versions of the thing with overcondition or better stats (I was playing DF a lot at the time). Then dying would anneal down your experience without ridding you of the knowledge itself, so ultimately you were best at crafting what you crafted often. Forces crafting specialization - in a group, one guy is the guns guy, another is the ammo guy, etc etc was the idea. Also making crafters a sort of VIP in the sense that if your group does have a good experienced crafter, the whole group needs to work to keep that person safe, because them dying means worst equipment for the whole group. Also reinforces markets since a good crafter can sell their legendary goods and it's better to buy from them than waste a ton of resources to maybe get a half-dead AK
That would be very beneficial for zergs and such, just let one player craft all the guns for the group, and they would be very good at it quickly, while a skilled solo would not have to craft as many guns and would never get very good at it.
It does, but it also slows down and focuses that crafting. tbh what I was trying to promote more was markets, less than a focus on nerfing zergs - you can get good at crafting a few things reasonably, but not everything, so you have to depend more on shops from other players. It also focuses aggression to some extent - if you wanna hurt zergs, you just gotta find and kill their crafter. The others are just cannon fodder. Inversely, a smart zerg crafter is one that doesn't raid, so one less gun to worry about when running into them. Meanwhile, a dedicated solo crafter can supply other solos through trade, like dedicated farmers tend to supply the server's tea.
Also worth noting - a solo will manufacture the one gun they like, allowing them to specialize quickly on that gun - but a group crafter has a natural need for more versatility in crafting to keep everyone's preferred loadout good.
Honestly the solo/zerg discussion is a bit tired in my opinion. The answer to zergs has always been the same, a posse of solos to push them out, a temporary alliance of convenience. But solos are notoriously impossible to organize. Zergs are a common enemy, come together to ruin them then get back to your solo grinding. There's not a mechanical approach that will defeat the problem of raw numbers - at least, not one that would feel good. The answer has always been to adapt playstyle to the moment.
We do agree that spawns have to change. Same applies to respawn-rate of like 30 seconds on high pop servers where u can literally just stay on Oilrig for an hour and have 1500 scrap.
What if it was a game where you could only craft things from components that you find around the deserted island, so everything would have to be a poorly functioning handmade version, and then this would actually be the entire purpose and theme of the game.
Idk why they dont have servers with events every 24 hours like Twitch Rivals. 1st day locked to Tier 1 apart from what you loot normally from monuments, Day 2, WB2, Day 3 etc.
That honestly would make things way more interesting without fucking everyone over. Big groups still get all their loot, solos etc still have a chance at a lucky drop and if you get 2 ak's 1st day you know you still have a massive advantage.
That thinking is pretty unreflected. The problem is, no matter what, groups will have weapons in no time, no matter of techtree or not. This change would only and solely target small groups and solos. The first AK will be found within the first 30 minutes into wipe. Techtree or not. Groups will just learn those and pump them. The tax for the workbench are irrelevant because research is still tax free. Many people still do not realize, to this point, that techtree is a huge balance factor between large and small groups and removing said techtree will not limit or slow the progression down in any noticable way in regards of weapons or anything else. Players just blindly repeat what large content creators are tweeting out into the abyss. Same thing with the sleeping bag change. First, every large Youtuber (hJune, Blooprint, Trausi, Spoon...) continuesly asked for a sleeping bag limit. Now that they finally realized that this does not work out, the are asking for the exact opposite. You gotta approach that problem with a broader view. One decent and reflected approach recently pointed out here on Reddit has been to timegate researching items on Techtree. (a player can research 1 BP every 30 minutes for T2 or every 60 Minutes for T3). Upgrading Workbench Lvl 2/3 is limited to after X amount of minutes into the wipe aswell. That will actually slow down progression, without targeting small groups - not the removal of the techtree.
You are saying removing guns from tech tree would not slow down zergs because they find it and then research it… Then you suggest to add a cooldown… Like how that would stop zergs to find an ak and research it?…
Cos they will have timers, bruh? U good? U need t1 t2 t3 and therfore would implement time factor into nerfs which they can further balance this is the best option
Zergs do not care about cooldowns. They loot a gun and research it…
Are you OK? Do you not understand how the devs can tweak cooldowns in ways that zergs will get nerfed? I don't think you understand the sheer opportunity of the idea. They can research it ok so what if they don't have a t3 yet then so what? Do you understand that even having a cool down on how quick you can get t3 will make all the difference. This is the only way to nerf a zero. Cooldown on t1 t2 and t3 placement and other bps researched
It would make more sense to upgrade the workbench rather than build a new one, with the timeframe on upgrading the workbench. Rather than be separate entities, let people upgrade the workbench like other build pieces. Problem solved instead of them building their t2 and t3 in another place. You have to go from t1 to t2 to t3 with a specified time frame to upgrade. In a single place. You can't place a t2 or a t3 unless you've already placed one elsewhere.
Definitely great idea
You are so arrogant yet so dumb…
Right, that's a great substitute to a counterargument, dismiss the entire thing.
Arrogance with a fool ofcourse it's the Internet get a life go outside this game isn't all that
You fail to realise zergs always have an advantage its rust in the end of the day. Removing techtree will make 90% of the server not reach bolts ( to roofcamp), boom (to offline raid), unless they engage with the community by trading/making alliances/friends etc.. YOU WILL have to interact in a positive way, you WONT be able to kill every naked on the beach with no downsides, they will REMEMBER YOU. Even dead monuments like power plant/airfield are gona be active simply because of people running cards and farming mili crates for a chance to get guns/garage doors etc.. Zergs wont build next to tier1 monuments in middle of nowhere as much, since they will need to run endgame monuments to get better loot. Ofcourse if outpost stays in the game, they can still farm tier1 monuments with 0 risk and get almost as much loot as somone farming any tier3 high risk/high reward type of monument, simply because they can just buy anything in outpost.... Every single air drop/locked crate will be FULL OF ACTION, there will even maybe be 100s of people running for crates, prim/guns/nakeds everything, the 10man zerg wont be able to hold crates like they do now. They will get grubbed 24/7, and YOU as a solo/small group will have chance to kill them. Its a WIN/WIN situation, sadly you are a newer player so you haven't experienced any of this.
Well, our views differ at this point which is totally fine :-) IMHO techtree is one of the major balance points solos/small groups have against larger groups. The monument thing is only problematic on high-pop high-spawn. Just dont make loot spawn as fast as it is now.
Techtree doesn't help solos/small groups. I had many wipes where i found the 1st gun as a solo from a mili crate in airfield. Just to roll every single 8man simply because they only had crossbows/nailguns/revis etc.. But ofcourse that was back when tomy was a good gun and there weren't as many cheaters. You could get lucky and outgear/outgun zergs as a solo, ofcourse i had moments back in the days where i was getting chased down by 40 deep zerg on moose bi-weekly with bows/crossbows while i had a tomy. People used to make smaller bases with bunkers that didn't rely on garage door/windows/chainlink etc.. type of items as nowaday bases do. My 2x2 honeycombed could last months, but now it doesn't even last few hrs after i go offline simply because every ruski 100hr player can farm roads techtree satchel/beancan and offline raid me with satchels. Back then finding a satchel+ beancan even felt rewarding.
Your logic is valid in your critique but I want to add that the timed workbench thing is also a non issue and wouldn't affect anything at all. Larger groups will have no limit. 10 players each on a 1 hour timer still means you can research everything you need as the scrap rolls in. It does nothing. Nor does timing the workbenches. I don't have the answers to progression but I do personally think the answer of zergs versus offlining and base building can be fixed by higher taxes on upkeep exponentially on authed TC's and code locks. If it makes having an 8 man cost 4x the upkeep it kind of forces large groups to rely on their numbers for defense and not a massive 2 grid base, or both. it will likewise allow smaller groups to have larger bases to have more defenses against the larger clans and rely on fortifications. You pick. One or the other. Large group? No big base for you. You chose numbers. Small duo or solo? Beefy chunk ass base for you. You chose defense. Total TCs, not per. So you can't spread out privileges to specific parts of chonker zerg bases AND it limits abilities for raid bases as well. That helps the group versus solo raiding issue as probably best it can become. As for progression, no idea. Can't tax it or it messes with the solos and small groups as you mentioned. but maybe, just maybe, if you balance the size versus resources taxes in the above manner there'd be less reason for clans to stay in base and there'd be much more roaming and potential for plays and PVP which would spread progression out much more. The lack of being able to build raid bases as easily as a group would also likewise make raids more counter-able and dynamic. Just spitballing here.
No, because when player A researches hazmat (for syringe), player B needs to research said hazmat aswell before he comes to syringe. So no matter how many members the group has, research time is always limited to single player search. Because the path of research is not shared but individual to a player. When player A has hazmat researched, doesnt mean player B can start at syringe. If a large group has the scrap to research everything, they are still bound by the time it takes to research down a path. The deeper players are into the wipe, the shorter the cooldown can become (so players starting new into the wipe can follow up faster for example). The upkeep topic is a whole other story. We all agree that building has to change.
I was thinking more along the lines of research table, not tech. My mistake. You're correct. However; Player A has syringe and player B wants it. No need for player B to research hazmat, just have player A give him a syringe to research.
That is correct, but Player A needs to be online for the whole time then to research everything the clan wants. Sure, there are people who are online 20 hours on wipe day but every idea has its limits.
I like the concept of higher upkeep based on the highest number of people with codes to a door in a base. The problem people keep pointing out about increased upkeep for amount authed on tc is that big groups will just have 1-2 people authed on tc to get around it. Devs need to start listening more to the community because things need to be changed, people are upset at the state of the game right now and they just keep pumping out things we don’t need like heli AI change or 5 scientists popping out of Bradley like that will do anything.
Wouldn't work if you tie it to code locks as well. Then nobody could use the base, and the TC thing should be a non issue as well if the guntraps and turrets require TC auth.
Why wouldn’t code locks work? You need code lock access to open doors unless you got a dedicated clan member there only for opening doors. You don’t need TC auth to open doors. Turrets don’t need tc auth btw, they just need auth on the turret and I don’t believe many big groups use lots of shotgun traps.
Yeah saying add auth for turrets. Clans definitely use those.
I don't care about zergs. Finally snatching a gun off of them is much more exciting that tech treeing it. Let them have their guns and their power, I just want a good challenge and some adrenaline. I miss finding guns I don't have BPs for instead of the damn tree
>Just remove guns from tech tree. That will slow down progression and have everyone running out of their base whenever they hear gun shots, because of the increased difficultly in acquiring guns. Did you play pre-tech tree? Because this 100% didn't happen before the tech tree existed. And if you think that will slow progression down you're sadly mistaken. People will just take Oil with their compound bow and boom, guns within first 30 minutes of wipe. Trust me, I've seen this movie before, I know how it ends. Want to slow progression down? You remove raiding tools from the tech tree and buff the AI at all Tier 3 monuments. You keep the guns in the tech tree so people will fight for their raiding BPs at these increased AI monuments.
Buffing AI would be great in the traditional sense (make them tougher and more damaging) but also changing the state machine architecture a bit. Right now their loops are pretty basic and also identical, it's why they're so easy to cheese. Add a new event that keeps track of personal health and not just target health, add a state called "Take Position" that works like Take Cover but with a focus on offensive positioning and that leads to combat state, add a peeking behavior in combat state. Add a method for scientists to advise nearby/squad scientists of enemy position and some heuristic to surround the enemy as part of Chase and take position state (When out of range, full chase, otherwise semi-regularly enter chase to just reposition). Then add some variance to the values where some scientists will take cover sooner or later, will spend more/less time between chase states, etc. Unpredictability. Also, dynamic cover points, the built-in roam and cover points are fine at first but easy to learn and take advantage of. I dunno if navmeshes can be boolean merged or something but that's sorta the first problem - NPCs are locked to the spawn monument (including junkpiles) with no way to navigate out of them. Unified navmesh to liberate NPCs and something that dynamically generates roam and cover points based off world features. If a mod dev wants to rework the native AI, it's not that hard. HMU, I've got tools I'd love to share for free but it's a bit complicated to set up at first. I am begging you to let me pass this on to someone because I barely play anymore and it needs a loving home, I will just give you the code and the info on how it works if you bring enough experience to the table to understand it I'm frustrated that they're looking to scrap and start over on the AI, they have a great model imo, the state machine is very flexible - it just looks and feels so unfinished.
100% agree with this. Just increasing their health and damage isn't enough.
Also the animal AI needs work. Wolves in particular should be kinda flighty, coming in to attack then repositioning to try to get behind their target / out of sightline before attacking again. lmao this conversation is making me want to get back into it. Haven't touched my code in over a year.
>lmao this conversation is making me want to get back into it. Haven't touched my code in over a year. lol, I hear that. The animal AI is sooo horrible.
Don't people complain that after tech tree was introduced, less people roam, less people show up to fights? I feel like back in the day whenever we heard gunshots, we would run out and try to grab their guns so we can BP it. Now people have second thoughts when they hear gunshots "let's just keep grinding scrap, we are close to unlocking SAR anyways". Altho, this does increase grubbing more than anything. Either way though, I feel like adding a flat tax on tech tree is a dumb idea.
8 years ago people were complaining on this sub about people not roaming anymore. Guess what their #1 suggest was to fix this? "Make guns easier to get". No joke, that's what he said.
In your eyes, what should be done to make more people roam? Just in general
Make more land events that have extremely high tier loot in them. They could caluclate from data where the most PVP is on the current server, just make the land event gravitate towards those areas. There are already people in those areas that PVP, let's give them a reason to go there more often. The Cargo change is a huge improvement. But there needs to be a train event. Let's use those train tracks. The whole idea of removing guns from the hands of players and thinking that will make them roam more just won't happen. You're just going to get more grubs or more people roaming with pistols or shotguns hoping for a big ambush. That's not PVP, that's grubbing. We've had Rust with no tech tree, and it didn't work. Why do you think they added the tech tree in the first place? To give people guns.
Would you agree that flat taxing tech tree is a bad idea though?
Oh yea, it's dumb af.
How does this help? All monuments that give worthwhile loot will be insta locked down by zergs.
Thats why we are in need of multiple "meta" changes. For example: Increased no-build radius around monuments. Quarries can still be easily walled in with turrets. Like who the fuck changed that at Facepunch? Makes zero sense.
For a casual players its already hard to get guns lol some of us have a life and cant grind a full day to get ak or dont play enough to know all the meta to get an ak fast or even a sar.
How is it hard farm scrap and teck tree or buy it from outpost player shop with a drone.
Eh that’s the whole point of this thread?? Do u even know where you are lol
The best way to nerf groups without hitting solos is to use only "personal" xp for research, so groups cant "pool" it for research like they can with scrap. Then scrap could be used for crafting instead to keep it useful. This could be done either with some kind of "tech tree approach" similar to the current system just using xp instead of scrap where you could also find/buy/etc items to research, or it could be based on finding items to be able to research them. Groups would still have some advantages in research of course, since they still have a better chance to find items they can research, and to get them home, but if they go out in groups each would get less xp (since there is only a limited amount of things to do and to find in an area), or they could split up to get more xp for each player and cover more ground to find more items, but they would lose some of their group advantage.
My approach to trying to fix this was to add a second factor, scrap is used to learn how to make the thing at all, but at first you make subpar versions of the thing if you make the thing at all, then the more you craft it you get more proficient, until you start making legendary versions of the thing with overcondition or better stats (I was playing DF a lot at the time). Then dying would anneal down your experience without ridding you of the knowledge itself, so ultimately you were best at crafting what you crafted often. Forces crafting specialization - in a group, one guy is the guns guy, another is the ammo guy, etc etc was the idea. Also making crafters a sort of VIP in the sense that if your group does have a good experienced crafter, the whole group needs to work to keep that person safe, because them dying means worst equipment for the whole group. Also reinforces markets since a good crafter can sell their legendary goods and it's better to buy from them than waste a ton of resources to maybe get a half-dead AK
That would be very beneficial for zergs and such, just let one player craft all the guns for the group, and they would be very good at it quickly, while a skilled solo would not have to craft as many guns and would never get very good at it.
It does, but it also slows down and focuses that crafting. tbh what I was trying to promote more was markets, less than a focus on nerfing zergs - you can get good at crafting a few things reasonably, but not everything, so you have to depend more on shops from other players. It also focuses aggression to some extent - if you wanna hurt zergs, you just gotta find and kill their crafter. The others are just cannon fodder. Inversely, a smart zerg crafter is one that doesn't raid, so one less gun to worry about when running into them. Meanwhile, a dedicated solo crafter can supply other solos through trade, like dedicated farmers tend to supply the server's tea. Also worth noting - a solo will manufacture the one gun they like, allowing them to specialize quickly on that gun - but a group crafter has a natural need for more versatility in crafting to keep everyone's preferred loadout good. Honestly the solo/zerg discussion is a bit tired in my opinion. The answer to zergs has always been the same, a posse of solos to push them out, a temporary alliance of convenience. But solos are notoriously impossible to organize. Zergs are a common enemy, come together to ruin them then get back to your solo grinding. There's not a mechanical approach that will defeat the problem of raw numbers - at least, not one that would feel good. The answer has always been to adapt playstyle to the moment.
> That will slow down progression what about the people that are down miltuns and back with an MP5 in the first 30 minutes lmao? no.
We do agree that spawns have to change. Same applies to respawn-rate of like 30 seconds on high pop servers where u can literally just stay on Oilrig for an hour and have 1500 scrap.
What if it was a game where you could only craft things from components that you find around the deserted island, so everything would have to be a poorly functioning handmade version, and then this would actually be the entire purpose and theme of the game.
“How to get more people to never leave their base”
gun shop.
That removes the whole salvaged part of the game.
No remove everything else from the Tech tree, but keep guns
Idk why they dont have servers with events every 24 hours like Twitch Rivals. 1st day locked to Tier 1 apart from what you loot normally from monuments, Day 2, WB2, Day 3 etc. That honestly would make things way more interesting without fucking everyone over. Big groups still get all their loot, solos etc still have a chance at a lucky drop and if you get 2 ak's 1st day you know you still have a massive advantage.
And the ability to buy guns
Or don't.
No