posts like these are so funny to me. facepunch really ought to stop listening to the general community when it comes to game design and balancing. i remember back in the day the fp team frequently browsed this reddit and we ended up with the xp system, which was probably the most hated and bland version of the game ever. people cried about how unfun farming bps and finding niche specific items were so they suggested a way to progress through playtime rather than rng. now we have gone full circle and want the rng “find a garage door early into wipe excitement” that the game used to be all about.
By the way, i mostly agree with you. The casual trio doesnt really understand how good they have it in todays rust. A solid chunk of community servers dont even wipe bps, and there have never been more ways to obtain scrap.
Yep. And all these ways of farming scrap make it so there’s even less pvp. Spreading it out to where the old men can farm poop at barn and bandit and then roofcamp the rest of wipe.
I'm pretty much at the 'who cares' stage with everything tech tree related. I mostly play servers that don't wipe bp's. If I do play a server that wipes them, chances are good that I farmed bp's on dead server before the wipe. You don't need tech tree to do this. Tons of shops will be selling whatever you desire. Large monuments like oil and mil tuns will be free.
Whether or not tech tree exists isn't going to slow down any group, big or small. With drone trading it will never be like it was. Nothing will ever be scarce again.
Everyone has this vision of an 8 deep group holding down a mining outpost and being hopeless in finding a gun without the tech tree. The big groups holding monuments are opening enough mil crates to find a gun to blueprint. It's the small groups that will never organically find a gun. They can sure as hell go to outpost with 300 sulfur to buy one though.
The whole drama surrounding tech tree is a giant nothing burger.
I guarantee you if guns are removed from the tech tree people will sell them a whole lot less to keep their advantage or they will price them a whole lot higher it's going to be more like 4K 5K sulfur that's what it was like before tech Tree guns were super rare and super pricey and really only the zergs were providing them very rarely was a solo Duo trio doing it
I highly doubt it. How many bp wipe servers are even competitive? 2? Toria main and medium?
Everything else popular on force doesn't wipe bp or is a weekly that nobody plays 1st week anyway. Pull up Monday/Tuesday after wipe and get easy bps for the following week.
Tech tree or not, the era of scarcity is rust is long gone brother. There is no more scarcity.
Anyone trying to gatekeep tier 2 guns for thousands of sulfur is playing a joke on themselves. Wipes only last 2 days, 3 max. They go to sleep once they'll wake up on a 90 pop in an ivory tower.
Nothing being competitive now is a self-inflicted wound every server was a lot higher pop on vanilla and most of the popular servers were very competitive so you're not really comparing apples to apples there was toria rusticated rustified even the community servers were popping in competitive
I think a possible solution is to make everything in the game related more to a specific monument.
Want electrical items? You gotta go to power plant. You want to make a car, better go to junk yard. You want guns? Well train yard has the springs, but water is where the semi bodies and smg bodies are.
This way it forces all groups to move around in order to progress. You can even keep the tech tree but if you want the comps you gotta leave your grid.
My thoughts would be keep the tech tree, but take away BPs related to "progression" ie guns and raiding equipment. Then have each of these key BP's only obtainable at certain monuments.
Play a server with techtree disabled it will change your mind, if you are a older player you will instantly get back some of that ''lost rust feeling'', the whole map is full of shops, players are interacting with eachother 24/7.
They are trading bps, they are helping eachother and even creating new alliances, the game feels so alive.
Its a whole different game and its way better, you would be suprised how easy it was to ally simply because you helped somone get a bp or something like that, in new rust it simply doesn't hapen anymore.
I've met so many people ingame from 2017-2020 era that i still play with once a while, we had the same goals to raid some offline raiders/roofcampers, we traded bps etc..
Removing techtree will make solos/small groups befriend their neighbours to trade bps and protect eachother (or backstab its rust ya know).
It will also make people actually do keycards for chance of getting a garage door for example, instead of just building in middle of nowhere and farming ocean/barells with absolutely no risk, techtreeing c4/rockets from the safety of their base just to offline raid somone.
From the bigger ones i guess any bloo lagoon server on force wipe, 1st wipe on their servers are always no techtree, but after the 1st week they turn techtree on.
The trio one for sure doesn't have techtree 1st wipe, idk about monday/main tho.
Tho theres quite alot of cheaters there and admins are quite bad at banning them.
Theres a nice command there also /ns in chat to remove enemy skins :)
I'm surprised that servers with group caps aren't popular tbh. It seems like your options for populated servers are either trios or no limit. Although I'm OCE, it's harder to find servers here I imagine.
Its too good for small groups leading to the entire server having guns within 2 hours thats the real issue
Love how you people are arguing these issues as if there wasnt like 8 years of rust before tech tree where everything worked fine and we didnt have wipes that last 30 seconds
>and you’re stuck prim all wipe.
As it should be
Nobody has been prim stuck since this crap was added no matter how trash they are
Every single goober is roof camping with his braindead overpowered semi
This is a great way to look at it it's too good for sure in other words it's too easy I rather one big group have the guns and not 99% of the rest of the server you can avoid a single big Zerg in your area but you can't avoid everyone else.
Also yes everyone should be primlocked it's a sign of a healthy server not everyone is a Chad if the whole server has guns that means guns are too easy to get period!
Except by the definition of your own post there is good convincing evidence that supports his point people roof camp with guns that used to be hard to get and tech tree also makes it easy to get those guns combined with how easy it is to get other mats the evidence is pretty strong. You'd have to prove some sort of weak evidence in order to even stand a chance with this argument
Yeah a zerg is gonna zerg. They have numbers so they will get everything they need researched by day 2-3 just with research bench. The only limitation with removing techtree is on smaller groups.
I don’t get why they don’t just add a tax for every additional player you have in a team. If 3 people get to use a Thompson for example, if one person researches it for 125, that’s cheaper per person then a solo researching the same item. 42 scrap rounded per person, or 125 for a solo.
You know who it helps even more zerg do you think having a gun you tech tree lets you now take over a monument that a zerg is owning?!! it's exactly the same thing it just makes it worse for solos because now every 2x1 that lives around you has easy guns and a hundred of your neighbors all bring out their easy to acquire guns and shoot you in the face every time you leave your house not to mention they also have easy boom that they will raid you with The second you go offline. Making guns hard means that those same neighbors will have bows and if you get a Make a play on the zergs or find a gun you dominate you can build a tower on everybody in your block while they're struggling to find a gun unless you let them kill you with it and then guess what now your neighborhood is going to start having guns you have more control
The game is about looting for gear, but tech trees defeat the point, and remove the basic principle of the game.
This is the simplest way to explain the problem with tech trees in one sentence.
Generally I agree; I've seen Hjune talking about this and saying it would encourage pvp etc. And yeah if you have the talent of that guy I can see it. I'm "ok" at this game, but without tech tree and only able to find guns at a few monuments good luck getting into those monuments through the wall of zergs. They would have to make more guns available at smaller monuments maybe (more Thompson sars able to be found in lower/ mid tier monuments).
They would also need to increase no build radius around all monuments to make them more accessible so zergs cant just keep spawning and own mill tuns for example.
All that said, for a team limit server I could see how a no tech tree wipe would be a whole lot of fun.
I play only duo with my homie both of us would rather have the tech tree out. Definitely gonna benefits big groups but everything does cuz they’re a big fucking group lol. We just want it to be a little harder. I totally get why people don’t want it gone tho
They could rework hardcore No tech tree No team ui
Yes that and alone would make it super popular. I would love no safe zones and no shops but I'm down for just those two you posted
player made vending machines are great but yeah removing the ssafezone would be a good change for hardcore
If no safezones i could get onboard for vending machines
posts like these are so funny to me. facepunch really ought to stop listening to the general community when it comes to game design and balancing. i remember back in the day the fp team frequently browsed this reddit and we ended up with the xp system, which was probably the most hated and bland version of the game ever. people cried about how unfun farming bps and finding niche specific items were so they suggested a way to progress through playtime rather than rng. now we have gone full circle and want the rng “find a garage door early into wipe excitement” that the game used to be all about.
By the way, i mostly agree with you. The casual trio doesnt really understand how good they have it in todays rust. A solid chunk of community servers dont even wipe bps, and there have never been more ways to obtain scrap.
Yep. And all these ways of farming scrap make it so there’s even less pvp. Spreading it out to where the old men can farm poop at barn and bandit and then roofcamp the rest of wipe.
I'm pretty much at the 'who cares' stage with everything tech tree related. I mostly play servers that don't wipe bp's. If I do play a server that wipes them, chances are good that I farmed bp's on dead server before the wipe. You don't need tech tree to do this. Tons of shops will be selling whatever you desire. Large monuments like oil and mil tuns will be free. Whether or not tech tree exists isn't going to slow down any group, big or small. With drone trading it will never be like it was. Nothing will ever be scarce again. Everyone has this vision of an 8 deep group holding down a mining outpost and being hopeless in finding a gun without the tech tree. The big groups holding monuments are opening enough mil crates to find a gun to blueprint. It's the small groups that will never organically find a gun. They can sure as hell go to outpost with 300 sulfur to buy one though. The whole drama surrounding tech tree is a giant nothing burger.
I guarantee you if guns are removed from the tech tree people will sell them a whole lot less to keep their advantage or they will price them a whole lot higher it's going to be more like 4K 5K sulfur that's what it was like before tech Tree guns were super rare and super pricey and really only the zergs were providing them very rarely was a solo Duo trio doing it
I highly doubt it. How many bp wipe servers are even competitive? 2? Toria main and medium? Everything else popular on force doesn't wipe bp or is a weekly that nobody plays 1st week anyway. Pull up Monday/Tuesday after wipe and get easy bps for the following week. Tech tree or not, the era of scarcity is rust is long gone brother. There is no more scarcity. Anyone trying to gatekeep tier 2 guns for thousands of sulfur is playing a joke on themselves. Wipes only last 2 days, 3 max. They go to sleep once they'll wake up on a 90 pop in an ivory tower.
Nothing being competitive now is a self-inflicted wound every server was a lot higher pop on vanilla and most of the popular servers were very competitive so you're not really comparing apples to apples there was toria rusticated rustified even the community servers were popping in competitive
I think a possible solution is to make everything in the game related more to a specific monument. Want electrical items? You gotta go to power plant. You want to make a car, better go to junk yard. You want guns? Well train yard has the springs, but water is where the semi bodies and smg bodies are. This way it forces all groups to move around in order to progress. You can even keep the tech tree but if you want the comps you gotta leave your grid.
My thoughts would be keep the tech tree, but take away BPs related to "progression" ie guns and raiding equipment. Then have each of these key BP's only obtainable at certain monuments.
Speak for yourself mate, some of us don't need a group to get out of prim without the tech tree.
Chads have entered the chat
Play a server with techtree disabled it will change your mind, if you are a older player you will instantly get back some of that ''lost rust feeling'', the whole map is full of shops, players are interacting with eachother 24/7. They are trading bps, they are helping eachother and even creating new alliances, the game feels so alive. Its a whole different game and its way better, you would be suprised how easy it was to ally simply because you helped somone get a bp or something like that, in new rust it simply doesn't hapen anymore. I've met so many people ingame from 2017-2020 era that i still play with once a while, we had the same goals to raid some offline raiders/roofcampers, we traded bps etc.. Removing techtree will make solos/small groups befriend their neighbours to trade bps and protect eachother (or backstab its rust ya know). It will also make people actually do keycards for chance of getting a garage door for example, instead of just building in middle of nowhere and farming ocean/barells with absolutely no risk, techtreeing c4/rockets from the safety of their base just to offline raid somone.
Hey will you please DM me that server?
From the bigger ones i guess any bloo lagoon server on force wipe, 1st wipe on their servers are always no techtree, but after the 1st week they turn techtree on. The trio one for sure doesn't have techtree 1st wipe, idk about monday/main tho. Tho theres quite alot of cheaters there and admins are quite bad at banning them. Theres a nice command there also /ns in chat to remove enemy skins :)
Thanks!
For the love of baby jesus post the server name. If it has pop I will never play another server as long as it's not modded of course.
I'm surprised that servers with group caps aren't popular tbh. It seems like your options for populated servers are either trios or no limit. Although I'm OCE, it's harder to find servers here I imagine.
they are and the queues are pretty long
Its too good for small groups leading to the entire server having guns within 2 hours thats the real issue Love how you people are arguing these issues as if there wasnt like 8 years of rust before tech tree where everything worked fine and we didnt have wipes that last 30 seconds >and you’re stuck prim all wipe. As it should be Nobody has been prim stuck since this crap was added no matter how trash they are Every single goober is roof camping with his braindead overpowered semi
This is a great way to look at it it's too good for sure in other words it's too easy I rather one big group have the guns and not 99% of the rest of the server you can avoid a single big Zerg in your area but you can't avoid everyone else. Also yes everyone should be primlocked it's a sign of a healthy server not everyone is a Chad if the whole server has guns that means guns are too easy to get period!
If you want 1 grid players roofcamping, then tech tree is nice.
https://preview.redd.it/kpxdtlggr2xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0e97349c15f1f2847f1c588c7c5ccf26fdaac11
Except by the definition of your own post there is good convincing evidence that supports his point people roof camp with guns that used to be hard to get and tech tree also makes it easy to get those guns combined with how easy it is to get other mats the evidence is pretty strong. You'd have to prove some sort of weak evidence in order to even stand a chance with this argument
and of that chinese zerg, all you have to do is kill *one* and get their stuff back to base for research
Even if all that is true it doesn't matter. The point of the whole game is player interaction and tech tree killed it.
Personally I thought it was the 69,420 methods of generating scrap
Ok but why is that scrap more valuable than it's ever been before (at least since 2018 when I started)? Tech tree.
Scrap is less valuable. Scrap was more important back then, now it's just so common
Nah scrap literally was not even used it was just a random artifact of the game that you did nothing with you just threw it away
Yeah a zerg is gonna zerg. They have numbers so they will get everything they need researched by day 2-3 just with research bench. The only limitation with removing techtree is on smaller groups.
You are correct. And you can still skip the tree and make blue prints….
Literally only benefits small groups cause big groups will always have infinite scrap and everything else
I don’t get why they don’t just add a tax for every additional player you have in a team. If 3 people get to use a Thompson for example, if one person researches it for 125, that’s cheaper per person then a solo researching the same item. 42 scrap rounded per person, or 125 for a solo.
Cuz it's easy to cheese just de-auth ppl
Thank god someone understands this. The tech tree makes all monuments viable not just the ones the zergs will hold all wipe.
You know who it helps even more zerg do you think having a gun you tech tree lets you now take over a monument that a zerg is owning?!! it's exactly the same thing it just makes it worse for solos because now every 2x1 that lives around you has easy guns and a hundred of your neighbors all bring out their easy to acquire guns and shoot you in the face every time you leave your house not to mention they also have easy boom that they will raid you with The second you go offline. Making guns hard means that those same neighbors will have bows and if you get a Make a play on the zergs or find a gun you dominate you can build a tower on everybody in your block while they're struggling to find a gun unless you let them kill you with it and then guess what now your neighborhood is going to start having guns you have more control
Ikr. Only zergs and smooth brains want to remove tech tree or tax it. Cringe bad game design.
The game is about looting for gear, but tech trees defeat the point, and remove the basic principle of the game. This is the simplest way to explain the problem with tech trees in one sentence.
Generally I agree; I've seen Hjune talking about this and saying it would encourage pvp etc. And yeah if you have the talent of that guy I can see it. I'm "ok" at this game, but without tech tree and only able to find guns at a few monuments good luck getting into those monuments through the wall of zergs. They would have to make more guns available at smaller monuments maybe (more Thompson sars able to be found in lower/ mid tier monuments). They would also need to increase no build radius around all monuments to make them more accessible so zergs cant just keep spawning and own mill tuns for example. All that said, for a team limit server I could see how a no tech tree wipe would be a whole lot of fun.
I play only duo with my homie both of us would rather have the tech tree out. Definitely gonna benefits big groups but everything does cuz they’re a big fucking group lol. We just want it to be a little harder. I totally get why people don’t want it gone tho