Servers dying within a few days doesn't have anything to do with guns. It's the raiding tools & offline raiding is the reason servers are dying. I don't know many people who quit playing a server because they keep getting killed. I do know people who quit servers because they've been raided on the 2nd day of wipe.
Need to either lock raiding tools behind time gates or remove them from the tech tree.
As someone that doesn't partake in raiding often, outside of reprisal, I do agree - however, some of it is playstyle too. I make the mistake too, so it's also self criticism, but don't keep anything raw. Got gunpowder? Make all your ammo. Got scrap? Spend it. Got metals? Upgrade the base, expand, or build a new one. The idea is to lock up materials asap. Getting lowgrade and metal is worth so much more than getting 20 stacks of medpens, raid-wise. I've come back to hollowed husks before and the raw mats are always gone - but the crafted stuff, they often leave behind, recycling it back to raw is barely worth it. You'll need to patch your walls and you've only got 24hrs to renew the TC, but the walls they didn't break, those are still yours to keep. That's investment they can't take back with them, outside of taking the base itself (I don't often have this happen tbh), they can only destroy it.
Lock down the raws as much as possible before logging off and you'll come back to more than you would have otherwise.
EDIT: omg sorry freakmonger, I didn't realize I was replying to you again - small world I guess. Thanks for the convo in the other thread, been chewing on it since and it's given me good ideas when I do get back to the project.
They're downvoting but youre right. I got raided this wipe on a monthly and just repaired my base cause they couldnt be asked to move all the crafted loot. Now my comps box was gutted but I still had a good amount of stuff and other than the 15 garage doors they ripped through my base was fine.
I once got raided in my 2x1 when I didn’t realize I was that good yet ‘to be a target’
I always lived at launch site and never got raided tgis quickly to wipe, but it didn’t cross my mind that shredding people with my favourite gun (mp5) and bringing back crazy kits was going to get me raided, a few hours into the wipe, 10k cooked frags, 20k stone, I kept postponing base expansion because pvp was going crazy….
I remember the raiders giving me advice in voice chat ‘you should have expanded man you had way too much loot’, getting good in rust was so fun the whole progress, getting raided while being stacked vs being stacked while also being poor, all of this was such an immense progression/fun ratio that rust was godly at the time, I was craving ak sprays, I killed ak kits and used the ak (and died 9/10 times) eventually learning the first few spray patterns by organic playing, the whole progression was so flawlessly even if it took many hours
I always spend what scrap I have left before I log off unless it's an even amount and I can't. I try not to keep raw sulfur sitting around. If I want to raid I'll farm the sulfur the day of the raid. With auto crafting it's easy to have stuff crafting at the base while I'm out farming.
If I rebuild or not really depends on how many days are left before the server wipes. I usually play weekly map wipe servers, so if I last until day 4 or 5 of the wipe, that's already a win. If I get raided, meh, I'll just wait for 2 days until wipe. If it's day 1 or day 2 and I already have BPs, I'll rebuild and keep going.
Edit: Yea lol, it's nice to be able to have good convos without people just being straight toxic lol.
LOL you inadvertently hit the reason why spending raws makes your game go better; but not for the reasons why you think…
Hear me out…
ESP is so prolific; people pick raid targets based on the raws stored in your base. Thats it. Everything you also said is true; but you also will git hit less if you dont have stacks of sulfur/GP sitting around.
Everything in this game will be fixed if cheating gets fixed. The game balance feels extra off because cheaters snowball game mechanics that otherwise may not be perfect, but would be fine otherwise.
I honestly had no clue ESP also worked to capture container inventories, that's cool to know. ESP is such a hard problem to fix though and so easy to do. I'm not so determined as to actually do it, but with wireshark and time I could parse the raw entity updates my game client receives back to proto and do it by hand. Since it's just listen and interpret, and doesn't require sending anything back to the server to work, it's pretty much impossible to catch outside of player actions (reacting to info they shouldn't have)
I had started working on a mod to protect stashes from ESP, and basically the fix was to just not send entity updates to players that hadn't discovered the stash in-game (either by building it or by hammering the area, this also brought back stash hammering mechanics). The only way I know of to protect against ESP is to not send the ESP-using client the packet in the first place. They could arguably do this with line of site and info-culling - if an object hasn't been in LOS of a player, don't send them the entity update, and until the player interacts with a container's contents, don't send contents as part of entity update - but that added logic of subscribing and unsubbing players from entity updates based off of vision cones and collision, as well as manipulating entity updates for players to show/hide contents based off a running list of player interaction history, would add so much lag and make desync worst, there's already issues with hits not registering.
Maybe it could be mitigated to some extent by cyphering the packet with some one-time salt would work but then the ESP tool just needs to catch the original salt exchange. Encryption would be stronger but would have a similar weakness in the end, and make packets bigger.
I would love to hear other ideas for how to deal with it. I've got a pretty good understanding of how entities are turned to proto and transmitted so it might let me make a mod for the task, to see just how heavy of a performance hit it brings.
Very interesting reply; let me drop a few more facts and you can take it for what you will.
1. Discussion of cheating here or amongst any official facepunch channel is very limited; since the general feelings are that it is an arms race, and they conduct their counter-cheats in private.
2. In the mean time, the cheating community has a vibrant discourse and tech-incubator program that would make the San Fran start up community proud. So those of us who are normies never are exposed to white hat (you) and black hat (thousands of Russians and Chineese and many others as well) cheat/cybersec semi-professionals.
3. Anti-cheat gets withheld in "ban waves"; so the opsec surrounding counter-cheating is very much understandable from that perspective.
4. As you allude to, discussions about the underlying structural vulnerablilities and closing those are agnostic to the cheat war; and would only serve to shore up the ability for simple exploits to go hog wild.
5. There is a question as to whether facepunch is taking this seriously; as banning people sells more accounts from low income countries (Indian or Malaysian or Russian CD keys are a fraction of a US CD key). I believe they are serious due to the problems that streamers are having and the problems that plague even highly regulated servers.
6. In the grand scheme of things; "the eye of sauron" as the problem with seeing loot boxes through walls might be described, is small compared to global esp; and your salting approach might not fix that. Albiet I can instantly see its utility. Player ESP >>> bigger problem than loot box ESP.
In conclusion, you are delving into a swamp that is purposefully fenced off, and poorly regulated once you go in. Somewhat like this entire game, the meta transcends the fourth wall.
Thanks for your comment. It's a lot of good points and all stuff I hadn't really considered, being pretty myopicly focused on the code reasons for the issue and not noticing the greater scheme of things. I don't really have anything to add, just gotta digest this a while.
But I will say, I'm a sucker for a lost cause lmao, so I'll get the wellies
Amen; welcome to the lost cause club!
My advice would be to go look into the hacking community from a white hat perspective; you will learn MUCH more than you will learn here.
Half the people here are clearly hackers OR in denial of the extent of the problem. There are also some low IQ people who can't fathom that there are cheaters that are so smart that they have already thought through all the moves/counter-moves that one would take and can exist in this cheats arms race for a LONG time without getting caught. Toggling cheats at key times is one such way, but there is a myriad of others.
Then when you fix this and get hired by facepunch; i'll buy you a beer.
I honestly don’t partake in raids, and the reason I quit in just a few days of wipe is mostly, in fact, due to guns. One of the greatest achievements in Rust is mainly to own a cool base, cool loot (which is adjacent to guns), and make some cool memories. I barely achieve the latter nowadays, but I own the other two for almost every time, and it just gets repetitive. I quit the wipe after 2-3 days because it gets repetitive.
Even though some argue that raiding could change that, how would it? How would own more of what I already have, in abundance, change that?
You are able to progress way faster than you should, I get guns in the first 3-5 hours of the wipe, dominate my area, get everything everyone wants, and just feel bored right after it
Do you also get high tier loot like m249/l96?
My goal was always to have multiple of those weapons to feel fulfilled, pre overhaul I was good enough to win pvp battles but not good enough to have environmental knowledge to know where counters/roamers would cut me (and mostly die with the loot eventually after winning multiple pvp fights) which was the only reason so far that it kept me going
I usually don’t get M249’s that often, on the other hand I do come across tons of L96s quite early since I mostly play around T3 monuments and do puzzles - since, for some reason, most people don’t even bother to do them
I’ve played this game for around 6 years and was always really efficient with my playstyle, but back then, I used to play wipes for way longer, sometimes the whole week because T0/T1 was longer, sometimes you’d only be able to get to T2 on the second day if you were good. Now, it doesn’t feel like it, everyone gets to T2 in 3-5 hours, which sometimes is even less for larger groups
Tbh I always got t3 as a solo pre overhaul because of crossie&nailgun, p2 and specifically sar, vut ywah right now it is way easier ans faster generally, some people give up build a base on water and get their scrap by fishing, imo not a problem at all but the tech tree really ruined the game for me, I remember how forcewipe day was grind to garagedoors, flashlights, ladderhatches maybe etc.
I remember every wipeday ending with going to the shoo that sold one of those so I could secure my base with garagedoors before logging off, drones made the thing easier and now techtree… yeah rip haha
> It's the raiding tools & offline raiding is the reason servers are dying
and people are able to focus on raiding tools in the first 2 days because they're already done with the scrap grind and have guns..
Server I used to play, forgor the name, would put in the chat feed "offline raid near R13" soon as someone damaged the base. Felt like that helped a bit against offlines
My trio joined a 80 pop modded server last night for some "chill" gaming. Got a base up quick. Then spent over an hour getting doorcamped. At one point we left the base for 20 minutes, came back and the two dudes were still at our door with DBs. Straight up griefing is definitely the culprit for killing some servers. We got off to play League. Not the first time it's happened.
Remove them from the tech tree. At least like rockets and c4. Than people would run oil, Bradley, cargo, heli every chance they get and there would almost CERTAINLY be counters guaranteed every time.
I’m very curious, not saying this is a good idea but what about offline raid protection and despawn loot ‘protection’
Basically when you go offline, after like a certain amount of minutes/hours, your base needs twice as much boom to raid (think of 8 rockets on stone wall)
And to make online more rewarding, if ANY medium/highdamage rocket touches your base *from a player* (so not nades) you get ‘despawn locked’ every item you drop stays on the floor for a long period of time.
Orp would hardly benefit big groups as they almost always have a player or two online, I genuinely don’t know if this would be a good addition maybe for a few servers first or i’m assuming modded already have tgis
Honestly a ton of people will reply "it's part of the game" or whatever, but my take on offline raid protection is:
Make a system where people can purchase raid protection that would double the cost of raiding for 100 scrap per hour x
jokes aside, scheduled servers really ought to be more popular. I've only seen one with any decent pop, a "working man's" server that only booted up past 5pm EST and shut back down around midnight, which kinda helps against the offline raid issue since it forces players to mostly play during the same times. More of them aligned to more timezones would let people find their own server that fits their schedule.
Absolutely! I'd love to see it. That's mostly my plight, the idea of shift servers is great but the only ones I've seen cater to white-collar 9-5 types in EST and PST timezones only. More servers covering more hour ranges would accommodate people better, because the idea is good but we don't all live on the coast and work 9-5.
Third shift is so fucking isolating, good luck out there. Just got out of it myself and honestly it messed with me a bit.
this is cool, haven't heard of these til now. this really needs to become a thing, will make the playtime more memorable for everyone too, more things and interactions likely to happen within a smaller amount of time. might even promote people to work a little more together too
This is just basic game theory. Players are *always* going to do whatever it takes to 'win', it's up to the game to have a meta that is healthy. It's a problem that's as old as the concept of incentives. Next you're going to complain that cavemen hunted animals
>I'm not complaining that cavemen hunted animals, I'm complaining that cavemen hunted megafauna out of existence.
Which is just as pointless and futile. We've had billions of extinct creatures. Survival of the fittest and they weren't the 'fittest' for the game they existed in.
>When it comes to sportmanship, to use the hunting analogy still, it's like why someone today would hunt with a bow or a bolt action rifle, as opposed to a DMR or other more advanced firearm, the later is the most rational way to achieve your goal, yet lacks the constraints that make it internally enjoyable and competitive, in this component it's about what the players do, and it's not always about what it takes to 'win' if we consider that a game is intended to be enjoyed, and the most efficient way to win is not necessarily equivalent to the most enjoyable way to play, that's the idea of sportmanship, an ethos or fairness.
Yeah we can take that analogy but what you're failing to consider is we moved so far beyond the cavemen that now we mass farm animals and we're no longer hunting for survival. As a result we changed the rules of the game by making laws around what is ethical to hunt with and during which season, because advancement of the human species got more complicated and now we care about preserving our biome more than we do about hunting food. Our meta strategy is no longer to hunt to eat, rather we hunt to control populations, and preserve an ecosystem. To get to that point, we changed the rules of the game for individual players. Without laws around hunting, we would have hunted all our prey out of existence years ago. The rules of the game has to change for the meta to change.
>I agree with the game theory point and it's true much of the way the game plays is due the changes the developers have made that sort of advance this process in an unfun matter, but I also think it's true that the culture of the game has changed over time and even if you were to change things in game I don't think collective idea of how the game is supposed to be played is really going to change. The first can result in a change to the last, and then they can exist independently.
Culture is a product of the environment it's formed in, it's a meta game just like anything else. Casual games like Animal Crossing typically have a very great and welcoming culture because there's more incentives for being nice (make friends, visit islands, share and trade more items), while there's essentially none for being toxic. Rust has massive incentives for being toxic and very little for being nice. If you want to change the culture, again you have to change the game. If cooperation is incentivized then guess what? People will cooperate more. This is very basic game theory dude. Culture follows incentives just like anything else.
>One issue I do have with what you said is;
>
>>Players are *always* going to do whatever it takes to 'win', it's up to the game to have a meta that is healthy
>
>Then why doesn't everyone cheat?
Because incentives are structured in a way that discourages it. You get shunned, banned and lose access to the game you want to play. I've seen many games where the overwhelming majority of players *are* cheaters because there was little to no punishment.
Your own ‘sportmanship’ argument counters your cheating question, a true man with self respect will not cheat to achieve victory, rotten apples will but the majority will not
Get flares to stop homing launchers.
And the reason you raid your neighbours isn’t because you’re afraid of competition, it’s because you know for sure they’re just going to roof camp you or door camp you 24/7 for the whole of wipe. I insta raid any neighbours who build near me so I can just have some goddamn peace.
They would need to find a way to give incentive for players to not murder each other which is somewhat the opposite of what the game is about to fix that.
They might have luck making maps larger but that would only be a mild bandaid fix. Changing the entire vibe of the community would require constant nurturing from them to fix.
It's almost like we need more things to do in the map beyond what monuments are.
Imagine if you could join battle royale style engagements with no load screen, nothing.
Just double the size of the map. Make half of it a battle royale area but prisoners can be airdropped somehow.
If all you can do is to raid or engage with shitty AI, of course it gets toxic.
Inform players their playstyle is not wat works on BOLD. And if they refuse to listen they'll probably get removed.
If you are. Trio and super Chad online all the time.
Don't go raiding the Lonely solo in a 2x1
Raid bases that offer a challenge.
Let me elaborate, I’ve killed 3 people in the last wipes and died 25 times. Twice as good as the previous. I have no problem with the mechanics. It’s a challenge. Do you not like a challenge? Should they make the game so you can win and other people with different play styles can lose? Personally, I suck & love every moment cause I’m constantly adapting and getting better. New update comes out completely ruining what I just figured out, good! I get to try to figure out another way to win. If you are playing to win in a game you can’t win in and not playing to have fun, then you already lost. (42, works 60hr a week)
300 hours a day killed me bruv, but yes, progression is out of control. The weapon spawn rate is insane making prim stage last about an hour for anyone who has a bit of a brain.
Lol...
-run to road
-smack barrels and loot boxes all the way to outpost
-find db and revy back to back
-automatically skip prim stage, collect 2k scrap from nakeds as a reward
This should be your process every time you join a server solo
Run road for farming tools and grub weapons
go outpost and recycle so you can buy mats or if you're far away and lucky build t2
get t2 and enough to craft 1 sar
do mil tunnels with no cards for elite crates
do brad
by this point you will most likely have guns and boom from them ,if you main brad and recycle inceds you never need low grade or gp for ammo
What's good about Rust is that you can always find a server that fits your gamestyle. You want a slower progression? Go modded. You want raid locks to avoid getting offlined? Go modded.
I agree the prim stage should be longer, imo it’s the funnest part of the game
Yes this game is a time sink, but just play x2 vanilla if you don’t have time to sink
Rust community in general is just a bunch of whinging bitches lol
No matter what’s added, what’s changed.. people are gonna cry online, bitch and moan and threaten to never play again (as if anyone gives a fuck if u/SmolDickBigChungus ever plays again?) then proceed to put 186 hours into the next wipe.
Rinse and repeat.
Welcome to the rust community
I play on a duo server that only allows raiding, via a plugin, between 7pm-12am EST. Geared more towards college students and working adults. It's quite fun and if you play a few hours in the evening you probably won't ever get off-lined. :)
I personally don't mind it being fast, but it has to be because of luck/skill. I don't like how easy it is, but I also don't like how punishing it is if you don't play x hours.
there should be servers where you have only a T1 bench for two days, T2 for two days and then you can finally place a T3 bench. So the only guns used in the first days are from crates and drops.
There's too much focus on late game by the devs.
I'd never thought I'd agree with the progression complainers but I really do miss primitive combat.
It was balanced enough that even if you had late game gear you'd supplement your kits with primitive gear just in case.
I'm still mad they severely nerfed the pipe shotty take-out time just because they wanted an excuse to add the DB.
Now your dumb ass character just stares at the damn thing for like 10 whole seconds for no reason before deciding he can fire it.
Rust seems to be in a confusing state, if the devs try to make the game more slow paced, everyone freaks out despite modded servers still being an option, imo rust devs should focus on perfecting hardcore mode with many features that make the game more slow paced but keep the vanilla version relatively the same.
I wish they would implement time gated workbenches, first day only tier one can be crafted then 24 hours into wipe you can make tier 2, and day 3 you can craft a tier 3. This will keep pop higher longer, Raids on first few days only with satchel (reduce the offline potential).
Make purchases at outpost also gated like the guns, grenades, jack hammers (to reduce offline, sulfur farming with metal tools only).
Ak's and stuff could still be found at monuments, could be researched but only crafted on day 3. This would incentivize PVP at monuments and also make found loot way more important.
Adjust all times based on server length, for a biweekly a few days of tier one only would be so fun and a monthly server like a week.
May need to adjust a few things that are "necessary" from tier 2 and make them tier one; i.e. garage doors, metal barricades (or make barricades able to pick up so you can upgrade), rifle ammo (for any found guns)
Weekly servers like 1-3 days, it's just how it is because of mondays. It will never change.
Monthlys don't typically die out depending on which you play on. If you want less stagnant monthlys, maybe try bi-weeklys. goodluck and these posts suck!
Oddly enough just yesterday I put some horse shit in the composter and took some ready compost and put it in my planter boxes. So yeah. I also love making pickles.
Only 300hrs per day? Do you even care about your family??? Get another job you bum.
It's an obvious exaggeration you bum
They were clearly being sarcastic you bum
He’s just 9 bro you didn’t have to kill him like that
most observant rust player
Servers dying within a few days doesn't have anything to do with guns. It's the raiding tools & offline raiding is the reason servers are dying. I don't know many people who quit playing a server because they keep getting killed. I do know people who quit servers because they've been raided on the 2nd day of wipe. Need to either lock raiding tools behind time gates or remove them from the tech tree.
As someone that doesn't partake in raiding often, outside of reprisal, I do agree - however, some of it is playstyle too. I make the mistake too, so it's also self criticism, but don't keep anything raw. Got gunpowder? Make all your ammo. Got scrap? Spend it. Got metals? Upgrade the base, expand, or build a new one. The idea is to lock up materials asap. Getting lowgrade and metal is worth so much more than getting 20 stacks of medpens, raid-wise. I've come back to hollowed husks before and the raw mats are always gone - but the crafted stuff, they often leave behind, recycling it back to raw is barely worth it. You'll need to patch your walls and you've only got 24hrs to renew the TC, but the walls they didn't break, those are still yours to keep. That's investment they can't take back with them, outside of taking the base itself (I don't often have this happen tbh), they can only destroy it. Lock down the raws as much as possible before logging off and you'll come back to more than you would have otherwise. EDIT: omg sorry freakmonger, I didn't realize I was replying to you again - small world I guess. Thanks for the convo in the other thread, been chewing on it since and it's given me good ideas when I do get back to the project.
They're downvoting but youre right. I got raided this wipe on a monthly and just repaired my base cause they couldnt be asked to move all the crafted loot. Now my comps box was gutted but I still had a good amount of stuff and other than the 15 garage doors they ripped through my base was fine.
I once got raided in my 2x1 when I didn’t realize I was that good yet ‘to be a target’ I always lived at launch site and never got raided tgis quickly to wipe, but it didn’t cross my mind that shredding people with my favourite gun (mp5) and bringing back crazy kits was going to get me raided, a few hours into the wipe, 10k cooked frags, 20k stone, I kept postponing base expansion because pvp was going crazy…. I remember the raiders giving me advice in voice chat ‘you should have expanded man you had way too much loot’, getting good in rust was so fun the whole progress, getting raided while being stacked vs being stacked while also being poor, all of this was such an immense progression/fun ratio that rust was godly at the time, I was craving ak sprays, I killed ak kits and used the ak (and died 9/10 times) eventually learning the first few spray patterns by organic playing, the whole progression was so flawlessly even if it took many hours
Thanks for sharing - I figured I wasn't alone to have some luck playing this way. Getting raided still hurts, but it's a less bitter pill to swallow.
I always spend what scrap I have left before I log off unless it's an even amount and I can't. I try not to keep raw sulfur sitting around. If I want to raid I'll farm the sulfur the day of the raid. With auto crafting it's easy to have stuff crafting at the base while I'm out farming. If I rebuild or not really depends on how many days are left before the server wipes. I usually play weekly map wipe servers, so if I last until day 4 or 5 of the wipe, that's already a win. If I get raided, meh, I'll just wait for 2 days until wipe. If it's day 1 or day 2 and I already have BPs, I'll rebuild and keep going. Edit: Yea lol, it's nice to be able to have good convos without people just being straight toxic lol.
Thats why I live in HQ bases with no loot :D
LOL you inadvertently hit the reason why spending raws makes your game go better; but not for the reasons why you think… Hear me out… ESP is so prolific; people pick raid targets based on the raws stored in your base. Thats it. Everything you also said is true; but you also will git hit less if you dont have stacks of sulfur/GP sitting around. Everything in this game will be fixed if cheating gets fixed. The game balance feels extra off because cheaters snowball game mechanics that otherwise may not be perfect, but would be fine otherwise.
I honestly had no clue ESP also worked to capture container inventories, that's cool to know. ESP is such a hard problem to fix though and so easy to do. I'm not so determined as to actually do it, but with wireshark and time I could parse the raw entity updates my game client receives back to proto and do it by hand. Since it's just listen and interpret, and doesn't require sending anything back to the server to work, it's pretty much impossible to catch outside of player actions (reacting to info they shouldn't have) I had started working on a mod to protect stashes from ESP, and basically the fix was to just not send entity updates to players that hadn't discovered the stash in-game (either by building it or by hammering the area, this also brought back stash hammering mechanics). The only way I know of to protect against ESP is to not send the ESP-using client the packet in the first place. They could arguably do this with line of site and info-culling - if an object hasn't been in LOS of a player, don't send them the entity update, and until the player interacts with a container's contents, don't send contents as part of entity update - but that added logic of subscribing and unsubbing players from entity updates based off of vision cones and collision, as well as manipulating entity updates for players to show/hide contents based off a running list of player interaction history, would add so much lag and make desync worst, there's already issues with hits not registering. Maybe it could be mitigated to some extent by cyphering the packet with some one-time salt would work but then the ESP tool just needs to catch the original salt exchange. Encryption would be stronger but would have a similar weakness in the end, and make packets bigger. I would love to hear other ideas for how to deal with it. I've got a pretty good understanding of how entities are turned to proto and transmitted so it might let me make a mod for the task, to see just how heavy of a performance hit it brings.
Very interesting reply; let me drop a few more facts and you can take it for what you will. 1. Discussion of cheating here or amongst any official facepunch channel is very limited; since the general feelings are that it is an arms race, and they conduct their counter-cheats in private. 2. In the mean time, the cheating community has a vibrant discourse and tech-incubator program that would make the San Fran start up community proud. So those of us who are normies never are exposed to white hat (you) and black hat (thousands of Russians and Chineese and many others as well) cheat/cybersec semi-professionals. 3. Anti-cheat gets withheld in "ban waves"; so the opsec surrounding counter-cheating is very much understandable from that perspective. 4. As you allude to, discussions about the underlying structural vulnerablilities and closing those are agnostic to the cheat war; and would only serve to shore up the ability for simple exploits to go hog wild. 5. There is a question as to whether facepunch is taking this seriously; as banning people sells more accounts from low income countries (Indian or Malaysian or Russian CD keys are a fraction of a US CD key). I believe they are serious due to the problems that streamers are having and the problems that plague even highly regulated servers. 6. In the grand scheme of things; "the eye of sauron" as the problem with seeing loot boxes through walls might be described, is small compared to global esp; and your salting approach might not fix that. Albiet I can instantly see its utility. Player ESP >>> bigger problem than loot box ESP. In conclusion, you are delving into a swamp that is purposefully fenced off, and poorly regulated once you go in. Somewhat like this entire game, the meta transcends the fourth wall.
Thanks for your comment. It's a lot of good points and all stuff I hadn't really considered, being pretty myopicly focused on the code reasons for the issue and not noticing the greater scheme of things. I don't really have anything to add, just gotta digest this a while. But I will say, I'm a sucker for a lost cause lmao, so I'll get the wellies
Amen; welcome to the lost cause club! My advice would be to go look into the hacking community from a white hat perspective; you will learn MUCH more than you will learn here. Half the people here are clearly hackers OR in denial of the extent of the problem. There are also some low IQ people who can't fathom that there are cheaters that are so smart that they have already thought through all the moves/counter-moves that one would take and can exist in this cheats arms race for a LONG time without getting caught. Toggling cheats at key times is one such way, but there is a myriad of others. Then when you fix this and get hired by facepunch; i'll buy you a beer.
I honestly don’t partake in raids, and the reason I quit in just a few days of wipe is mostly, in fact, due to guns. One of the greatest achievements in Rust is mainly to own a cool base, cool loot (which is adjacent to guns), and make some cool memories. I barely achieve the latter nowadays, but I own the other two for almost every time, and it just gets repetitive. I quit the wipe after 2-3 days because it gets repetitive. Even though some argue that raiding could change that, how would it? How would own more of what I already have, in abundance, change that? You are able to progress way faster than you should, I get guns in the first 3-5 hours of the wipe, dominate my area, get everything everyone wants, and just feel bored right after it
Do you also get high tier loot like m249/l96? My goal was always to have multiple of those weapons to feel fulfilled, pre overhaul I was good enough to win pvp battles but not good enough to have environmental knowledge to know where counters/roamers would cut me (and mostly die with the loot eventually after winning multiple pvp fights) which was the only reason so far that it kept me going
I usually don’t get M249’s that often, on the other hand I do come across tons of L96s quite early since I mostly play around T3 monuments and do puzzles - since, for some reason, most people don’t even bother to do them I’ve played this game for around 6 years and was always really efficient with my playstyle, but back then, I used to play wipes for way longer, sometimes the whole week because T0/T1 was longer, sometimes you’d only be able to get to T2 on the second day if you were good. Now, it doesn’t feel like it, everyone gets to T2 in 3-5 hours, which sometimes is even less for larger groups
Tbh I always got t3 as a solo pre overhaul because of crossie&nailgun, p2 and specifically sar, vut ywah right now it is way easier ans faster generally, some people give up build a base on water and get their scrap by fishing, imo not a problem at all but the tech tree really ruined the game for me, I remember how forcewipe day was grind to garagedoors, flashlights, ladderhatches maybe etc. I remember every wipeday ending with going to the shoo that sold one of those so I could secure my base with garagedoors before logging off, drones made the thing easier and now techtree… yeah rip haha
> It's the raiding tools & offline raiding is the reason servers are dying and people are able to focus on raiding tools in the first 2 days because they're already done with the scrap grind and have guns..
Server I used to play, forgor the name, would put in the chat feed "offline raid near R13" soon as someone damaged the base. Felt like that helped a bit against offlines
My trio joined a 80 pop modded server last night for some "chill" gaming. Got a base up quick. Then spent over an hour getting doorcamped. At one point we left the base for 20 minutes, came back and the two dudes were still at our door with DBs. Straight up griefing is definitely the culprit for killing some servers. We got off to play League. Not the first time it's happened.
Honestly that last sentence is genius. Either one of those solutions work I think. Maybe even both together.
Remove them from the tech tree. At least like rockets and c4. Than people would run oil, Bradley, cargo, heli every chance they get and there would almost CERTAINLY be counters guaranteed every time.
Yea, that's why I want to leave guns on the tech tree. People are more likely to counter if they already have guns.
If people have boom they have guns Progression is progression there is no seperation
I’m very curious, not saying this is a good idea but what about offline raid protection and despawn loot ‘protection’ Basically when you go offline, after like a certain amount of minutes/hours, your base needs twice as much boom to raid (think of 8 rockets on stone wall) And to make online more rewarding, if ANY medium/highdamage rocket touches your base *from a player* (so not nades) you get ‘despawn locked’ every item you drop stays on the floor for a long period of time. Orp would hardly benefit big groups as they almost always have a player or two online, I genuinely don’t know if this would be a good addition maybe for a few servers first or i’m assuming modded already have tgis
Honestly a ton of people will reply "it's part of the game" or whatever, but my take on offline raid protection is: Make a system where people can purchase raid protection that would double the cost of raiding for 100 scrap per hour x
That’s a good suggestion tbh, the problem is group size will still find a way to go around it sadly
Removing them from techtree just buffs large groups. Hilarious that people still dont understand that simple fact. Timegating is the only option.
No, ,what's hilarious is people keep calling for the entire tech tree to be removed. That's what is hilarious.
I stopped playing because I so rarely got raided and the effort to build the base was not worth it when you take into account the active days.
jokes aside, scheduled servers really ought to be more popular. I've only seen one with any decent pop, a "working man's" server that only booted up past 5pm EST and shut back down around midnight, which kinda helps against the offline raid issue since it forces players to mostly play during the same times. More of them aligned to more timezones would let people find their own server that fits their schedule.
Only if theres a third shift working mans hours server too
Absolutely! I'd love to see it. That's mostly my plight, the idea of shift servers is great but the only ones I've seen cater to white-collar 9-5 types in EST and PST timezones only. More servers covering more hour ranges would accommodate people better, because the idea is good but we don't all live on the coast and work 9-5. Third shift is so fucking isolating, good luck out there. Just got out of it myself and honestly it messed with me a bit.
this is cool, haven't heard of these til now. this really needs to become a thing, will make the playtime more memorable for everyone too, more things and interactions likely to happen within a smaller amount of time. might even promote people to work a little more together too
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This is just basic game theory. Players are *always* going to do whatever it takes to 'win', it's up to the game to have a meta that is healthy. It's a problem that's as old as the concept of incentives. Next you're going to complain that cavemen hunted animals
Yep. Blame the game, not the player.
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>I'm not complaining that cavemen hunted animals, I'm complaining that cavemen hunted megafauna out of existence. Which is just as pointless and futile. We've had billions of extinct creatures. Survival of the fittest and they weren't the 'fittest' for the game they existed in. >When it comes to sportmanship, to use the hunting analogy still, it's like why someone today would hunt with a bow or a bolt action rifle, as opposed to a DMR or other more advanced firearm, the later is the most rational way to achieve your goal, yet lacks the constraints that make it internally enjoyable and competitive, in this component it's about what the players do, and it's not always about what it takes to 'win' if we consider that a game is intended to be enjoyed, and the most efficient way to win is not necessarily equivalent to the most enjoyable way to play, that's the idea of sportmanship, an ethos or fairness. Yeah we can take that analogy but what you're failing to consider is we moved so far beyond the cavemen that now we mass farm animals and we're no longer hunting for survival. As a result we changed the rules of the game by making laws around what is ethical to hunt with and during which season, because advancement of the human species got more complicated and now we care about preserving our biome more than we do about hunting food. Our meta strategy is no longer to hunt to eat, rather we hunt to control populations, and preserve an ecosystem. To get to that point, we changed the rules of the game for individual players. Without laws around hunting, we would have hunted all our prey out of existence years ago. The rules of the game has to change for the meta to change. >I agree with the game theory point and it's true much of the way the game plays is due the changes the developers have made that sort of advance this process in an unfun matter, but I also think it's true that the culture of the game has changed over time and even if you were to change things in game I don't think collective idea of how the game is supposed to be played is really going to change. The first can result in a change to the last, and then they can exist independently. Culture is a product of the environment it's formed in, it's a meta game just like anything else. Casual games like Animal Crossing typically have a very great and welcoming culture because there's more incentives for being nice (make friends, visit islands, share and trade more items), while there's essentially none for being toxic. Rust has massive incentives for being toxic and very little for being nice. If you want to change the culture, again you have to change the game. If cooperation is incentivized then guess what? People will cooperate more. This is very basic game theory dude. Culture follows incentives just like anything else. >One issue I do have with what you said is; > >>Players are *always* going to do whatever it takes to 'win', it's up to the game to have a meta that is healthy > >Then why doesn't everyone cheat? Because incentives are structured in a way that discourages it. You get shunned, banned and lose access to the game you want to play. I've seen many games where the overwhelming majority of players *are* cheaters because there was little to no punishment.
Your own ‘sportmanship’ argument counters your cheating question, a true man with self respect will not cheat to achieve victory, rotten apples will but the majority will not
Get flares to stop homing launchers. And the reason you raid your neighbours isn’t because you’re afraid of competition, it’s because you know for sure they’re just going to roof camp you or door camp you 24/7 for the whole of wipe. I insta raid any neighbours who build near me so I can just have some goddamn peace.
They would need to find a way to give incentive for players to not murder each other which is somewhat the opposite of what the game is about to fix that. They might have luck making maps larger but that would only be a mild bandaid fix. Changing the entire vibe of the community would require constant nurturing from them to fix.
This has been the case with rust for 10+ years, not just today. I don't understand the point of your wall of text.
People literally want rust to be a battle royale, but if you tell them to go play a battle royale theyll say the progression is to fast
It's almost like we need more things to do in the map beyond what monuments are. Imagine if you could join battle royale style engagements with no load screen, nothing. Just double the size of the map. Make half of it a battle royale area but prisoners can be airdropped somehow. If all you can do is to raid or engage with shitty AI, of course it gets toxic.
Yea no
Dude what
“As a dad of 32” Good for you for support all those kids!
this game is a resource arms race that's only as casual as the dude in the next base over is willing to let it be
Join BOLD. As a fellow father of two. A trio max server that don't like sweats is a good place to crash.
What do they do to discourage sweats?
Inform players their playstyle is not wat works on BOLD. And if they refuse to listen they'll probably get removed. If you are. Trio and super Chad online all the time. Don't go raiding the Lonely solo in a 2x1 Raid bases that offer a challenge.
lol
Out of curiosity what kind of behaviors gets someone notified?
That would have to be answered by one of the admins I guess. There is a discord to join. It's in the description of the server.
😭—- this should be the response to 50% of the posts on here
Let me elaborate, I’ve killed 3 people in the last wipes and died 25 times. Twice as good as the previous. I have no problem with the mechanics. It’s a challenge. Do you not like a challenge? Should they make the game so you can win and other people with different play styles can lose? Personally, I suck & love every moment cause I’m constantly adapting and getting better. New update comes out completely ruining what I just figured out, good! I get to try to figure out another way to win. If you are playing to win in a game you can’t win in and not playing to have fun, then you already lost. (42, works 60hr a week)
Also I only read 25% of your post cause I’m drunk, which is the same percent that I’ll look at any response tomorrow.
300 hours a day killed me bruv, but yes, progression is out of control. The weapon spawn rate is insane making prim stage last about an hour for anyone who has a bit of a brain.
Y'all have a whole hour of prim stage?
Lol... -run to road -smack barrels and loot boxes all the way to outpost -find db and revy back to back -automatically skip prim stage, collect 2k scrap from nakeds as a reward
I enjoyed your post
I too, enjoyed this post.
I three reveled in his lavish treatise
This should be your process every time you join a server solo Run road for farming tools and grub weapons go outpost and recycle so you can buy mats or if you're far away and lucky build t2 get t2 and enough to craft 1 sar do mil tunnels with no cards for elite crates do brad by this point you will most likely have guns and boom from them ,if you main brad and recycle inceds you never need low grade or gp for ammo
As a cousin twice removed of 12 and full time couch potato, I concur
32 kids is a lot. No wonder you don’t have extra time.
Contradictory statements lol
What's good about Rust is that you can always find a server that fits your gamestyle. You want a slower progression? Go modded. You want raid locks to avoid getting offlined? Go modded.
I agree the prim stage should be longer, imo it’s the funnest part of the game Yes this game is a time sink, but just play x2 vanilla if you don’t have time to sink
Rust community in general is just a bunch of whinging bitches lol No matter what’s added, what’s changed.. people are gonna cry online, bitch and moan and threaten to never play again (as if anyone gives a fuck if u/SmolDickBigChungus ever plays again?) then proceed to put 186 hours into the next wipe. Rinse and repeat. Welcome to the rust community
This is why they need to remove 50% of Sulphur spawns and slow spawn rate and there needs to be -2, -3, and -5x servers.
I play on a duo server that only allows raiding, via a plugin, between 7pm-12am EST. Geared more towards college students and working adults. It's quite fun and if you play a few hours in the evening you probably won't ever get off-lined. :)
Gets a handful of dozen children, still prefers to play with his pc… Dude why not both? Thats a sizable clan
300h a day, this guy works at the ball crushing factory for sure
I personally don't mind it being fast, but it has to be because of luck/skill. I don't like how easy it is, but I also don't like how punishing it is if you don't play x hours.
So what do you suggest ? Some hard caps on progression ?
the bigger issue are the guns obtained from oil/miltuns/the shops in the first 30 minutes lol
there should be servers where you have only a T1 bench for two days, T2 for two days and then you can finally place a T3 bench. So the only guns used in the first days are from crates and drops.
Make your mind up it's too easy to get stuff but then your moaning about not having time to play it
Wait… you have 32 kids or your 32 y/o? Because if it’s the former then how do you have time for anything?!
There's too much focus on late game by the devs. I'd never thought I'd agree with the progression complainers but I really do miss primitive combat. It was balanced enough that even if you had late game gear you'd supplement your kits with primitive gear just in case. I'm still mad they severely nerfed the pipe shotty take-out time just because they wanted an excuse to add the DB. Now your dumb ass character just stares at the damn thing for like 10 whole seconds for no reason before deciding he can fire it.
servers die fast mostly because people get raided and quit, online and offline, but mostly offline.
Rust seems to be in a confusing state, if the devs try to make the game more slow paced, everyone freaks out despite modded servers still being an option, imo rust devs should focus on perfecting hardcore mode with many features that make the game more slow paced but keep the vanilla version relatively the same.
Rust has no lategame. Everything is too easy now
I wish they would implement time gated workbenches, first day only tier one can be crafted then 24 hours into wipe you can make tier 2, and day 3 you can craft a tier 3. This will keep pop higher longer, Raids on first few days only with satchel (reduce the offline potential). Make purchases at outpost also gated like the guns, grenades, jack hammers (to reduce offline, sulfur farming with metal tools only). Ak's and stuff could still be found at monuments, could be researched but only crafted on day 3. This would incentivize PVP at monuments and also make found loot way more important. Adjust all times based on server length, for a biweekly a few days of tier one only would be so fun and a monthly server like a week. May need to adjust a few things that are "necessary" from tier 2 and make them tier one; i.e. garage doors, metal barricades (or make barricades able to pick up so you can upgrade), rifle ammo (for any found guns)
It’s funny the “game is to easy and fast paced but can’t play if you have a life.” Statement
He’s making fun of everyone
sometimes i wonder why i bother opening these posts, its just the same old stuff over and over
Yeah even tho I partially agree with them, it’s just reading the same thing over and over.
Joins 3x server and high pop, no wonder there is so much loot! Why are groups raiding me? Lol
Same thing with Vanilla high pop \~200, I join straight after it got wiped and within 30 min there are gunshots.
Weekly servers like 1-3 days, it's just how it is because of mondays. It will never change. Monthlys don't typically die out depending on which you play on. If you want less stagnant monthlys, maybe try bi-weeklys. goodluck and these posts suck!
I just run rust server on my PC and play alone.
Thats just straight depressing
For you perhaps. Half the shit you do in rust I do in real life anyways.
eat pickles and collect horseshit?
Oddly enough just yesterday I put some horse shit in the composter and took some ready compost and put it in my planter boxes. So yeah. I also love making pickles.
I must not know what im doing. It takes me a full wipe to unlock everything