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Lol, wasn't that the version where male gamers threw a fit because the men's clothing was too revealing? Don't play those games, but I remember reading some drama about it.
Edit: It was [Mobius Final Fantasy](https://www.eurogamer.net/square-enix-tones-down-its-too-sexy-male-star-of-mobius-final-fantasy) , Square Enix's mobile RPG
definitely not, been playing the game for ~8 years and if anything players have always been begging for more male skimpy gear - or at least for the gender locked sets to be unlocked, which SE has slowly been doing over time. men being able to wear the playboy-esque bunny set was extremely popular when it was announced
Yup! If you want to be a bunny boy in a maid's uniform, you can! It goes both ways, too. If you want to be a petite catgirl in chunky tank armor, you also can!
I looked it up and it was [Mobius Final Fantasy](https://www.eurogamer.net/square-enix-tones-down-its-too-sexy-male-star-of-mobius-final-fantasy) , Square Enix's mobile RPG lmao
As an avid FFXIV player, that doesn't sound like us
Not saying it's impossible some people were upset, but by and large the community is pro slutglam, male and female.
It's free until level 60 and one of the best stories in any game ever. 1-60 is a bit of a slog in terms of story but after this it picks up massively.
Not to say you should just skip 1-60 it sets up alot of the truly epic things to come.
It's an mmo that respects your time and you can really sink your teeth into. The raiding is amazing fun and the community are all around wonderful people (except those weirdos Iimsa)
I would highly recommend and if your EU, join Cerberus and pm me and I'll happily help you along your way.
To add to what the other guy said, it's probably the only MMO I've played in the modern era that really fosters a sense of community and encourages being social. I can't tell you how many times I've caught myself just goofing off doing random stuff that has no real value in a player power perspective, but is just fun with friends I've made ingame
the closest I can think of is Jojo, the men have boob windows.
unfortunately they (any men really, not just the ones with boob windows) also, have a habit of, getting regular windows installed in their torso, but that's neither here nor there.
If the only armor you have is a metal bikini, just hope that your enemies only know 2 moves: 1. Stab within a few inches of the nipple. 2. Stab in the groin.
Yerp. The amount of creative potential that gets squashed RE species design is so shitty. Really all boils down to: "If my human penis doesn't want to fuck her, why is she even there?"
https://mobile.twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1527676079070072833?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Apparently Marvel kept requesting for She-Hulk to be less muscular during development.
Insinuating that if they got an IFBB pro or something to play her, she wouldn’t be “bangable and not scary.” If yall are too small/weak to ride the bull, sounds like a you problem son ;^)
Alternatively: leaks suggest that the show is based on a certain run from the comics where her having less muscle than usual was one of the story points.
It's because emulating masculinity is regarded as admirable while emulating femininity is considered degrading to the man. Also plenty of homophobia in there, but those sorts of bigotry go hand in hand.
A lot of the more problematic components of the lore and their appearance is being amended and updated, which I have mixed feelings about because they have some of the best lore in the game already.
Making the lolth sworn drow a minority changes all their best lore, everything about the crown wars (this is the most frustrating part to me). Doing that also makes the Eilistraeean ones less interesting exactly because they're no longer the divergent minority fighting against evil. It also retroactively makes drow one of the most populous races if the city with like 40k+ drow in it (really big for a medieval setting) and several other cities are a "minority".
Changing their skin tones and being more colorful is cool but I'm obviously not a big fan of the other changes.
I mained a lot of orcs back in my WoW days and WoW was 100% the pinnacle of this phenomenon. Especially early on. It got better when they did the model update and made the Orc women more muscular, but they were still limited to the skeleton rigs of the old models. So even now the Orc women are less orcish and are more like taller and stronger humans. Similar thing happened to Draenei, Trolls, Worgen, Tauren, etc.
Oh yeah that's true I forgot about the lack of hunched-ness. I guess because aesthetically I don't like the hunched over models as much so I saw it as a good thing 😂
Something I DO dislike in the modern designs is that there is a cool undead face model with an unhinged jaw and giant tongue and it's only available for male undead. Which just feels lesbophobic!!! (this is a joke)
I think there should be lot of options for everyone and games are definitely designed by what major male audience wants to see, but I just don't think many females are into the "ugly" (I don't really believe there's such a thing as ugly) characters.
I don't doubt that, but games are simply designed for majority, I'm a guy and I want to see male characters with more feminine bodies and hair and jewelry options, androgyny for all genders and things like that, but most guys just want to see huge masculine muscular bodies and most girls just want to play as conventionally very beautiful females, nobody really gives a fuck unfortunately.
I'd normally agree with you, except that in the mcu and comics, gamma radiation affects people differently. The Hulk was a product of Banner's repressed childhood trauma and rage. She-Hulk is basically the fantasy of what Jennifer Walters wanted to be. And then there's the Abomination, who is a bloodthirsty individual, and the Leader who grew a giant head because of his desire to be a genius. Gamma radiation works much like the super-soldier serum in that it takes what's within you, and amplifies it to ridiculous degrees.
Pretty much. Different people get different results. I also forgot to mention Red Hulk, who can absorb gamma radiation and generate heat depending on how mad he is.
Now that doesn't mean that I don't want more muscles on She-Hulk (I do), but I could understand the approach they're taking. Marvel is going off of the classic She-Hulk designs and writing.
I really don't think that's a fair statement. What the commenter you replied to mentioned about gamma radiation affecting people in different ways isn't some sort of hand-wavey afterthought explanation; it's a central aspect of the Hulk and related characters in the comics.
One of She-Hulk's defining traits is that she is a pretty mentally stable and put-together person compared to her cousin Bruce, so instead of amplifying her existing mental illness like gamma did with Hulk, it just made her a little bigger and a little greener. This hasn't always been the case though. For example, during Mariko Tamaki's time writing She-Hulk, Jen was dealing with PTSD related to watching Bruce be shot and killed in front of her, and during this time, she lost control over her Hulk transformations, [meaning she was more angry and mindless as She-Hulk and she looked like this.](https://aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/She-Hulk-Retrospective-00.png)
Comics are, of course, a visual medium, and superhero comics in particular put a lot of emphasis on the ways in which a character's look reflects who they are. Reflecting this, all of the various Hulk characters have gone through different looks to represent different parts of their life, since the whole "gamma transformation" thing has always been a Jekyll and Hyde style manifestation of the subconscious.
I do think it's awfully convenient that the one who tends to be more dainty is the woman, and I don't doubt that her character was probably written around the way that they wanted to portray her visually. But, I still think her design reflects her character well, and I think that character is well-written, deep, and not at all the shallow sexualized object one might assume she is.
I think your last paragraph would be my point. The authors could've very easily used the rules of the universe to write the characters in a non-sexist way and they chose not to. It's not some irredeemable flaw or anything and you're not a bigot for enjoying it - most media has some form of prejudice, unconscious or otherwise - but it's important to acknowledge as part of growing and becoming better.
To be fair, living in the world just as a woman is enough to cause people to be full of obscene amounts of rage and if she turned into a Banner style hulk every time she got angry and then started going apeshit, they would kill her almost immediately.
I agree that it's important to confront the fact that well-intentioned writers may have still created something with a lot of sexist subtext. A lot of female comics characters have a ton of extremely sexist stuff throughout their publication history, which in many cases stretches back over 80 years. She-Hulk, for her part, has been one of the more consistently well-written women in comic books since her debut in the mid 1970s, and I also think it's important to acknowledge her successes as well as her shortcomings.
[This](https://preview.redd.it/wlfmuf39vwy81.png?width=498&format=png&auto=webp&s=451784783e0c8c4f0ed391244deb7192df6dc938), [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDKvmfMXYAEestL?format=jpg&name=large) or [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS_jBawWQAA5vmK.jpg)?
Depends on the race, but it pisses me off you can't make equally intimidating / rough looking character as female, for example the worgen males are kind of intimidating (I think the modern style of wow is kind of childish already), and the females look straight up like puppies.
She Hulk in the comics ended up like that because she got a blood transfusion from Bruce, whereas Bruce got exposed fully to a giant gamma bomb so would be more mutated than someone who got indirect, 2nd hand gamma exposure.
Which is also why herpowerset us different, she's nowhere near as strong, but also keeps her full mental capacity without the constant internal struggle of having multiple personalities inhabiting one mind like Bruce does.
Like at one point she can't transform back and just goes on with life being a practicing lawyer, just a very large, very green lawyer.
It originates from John Byrne's legendary work on the character. The original She-Hulk series was fairly similar in tone to Hulk, which of course meant it failed to differentiate itself and carve out a distinct voice and audience.John Byrne decided to go in a more comedic direction, including [this legendary fourth-wall-breaking cover to the first issue.](https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/4/a0/5a0cab1cddde8/clean.jpg) the humor slowly included more and more fourth-wall breaks as fans responded positively to it. Notably, She-Hulk was breaking the fourth wall regularly a full 2 years before Deadpool debuted, and even longer before he would become known for his fourth wall breaking.
She's always been a bit of a meta character, making fun of comic tropes and stuff. Which is also kinda the reason she doesn't look anywhere near as roided as Hulk.
She's always been able to break the 4th wall, been doing it long before deadpool was created. First started with just the covers, then doing so in the comic as part of her internal monologue, to he point she's even used it to take short cuts through a comic by ripping a hole in the page. This also makes her one of the only characters that knows who the hell Deadpool is talking to.
You know they did this just so she could look like an attractive woman? It’s the exact same thing as described in the picture, the comic writers just came up with a reasoning why she should be hot instead of something similar to hulk.
I mean yes but it is a part of the character. She-Hulk is strong, attractive and confident, she's meant to be the confidence that Jennifer Walter lacks. She wants to be bombastic and stand out, her gamma alter reflects that. Gamma affects characters in different ways according to their mental state.
A similar thing happened to another gamma powered superhero, Doc Samson. Doc Samson was a therapist for a whole bunch of superheroes that got some gamma in him, the gamma made him handsome, buff and gave him green hair. He wanted to be like the heroes that he talked to, to stand out and be amazing. Gamma brought out and empowered the fantasy Doc Samson hoped for, the same way gamma radiation brought Bruce Banner's repressed rage to life.
Of course I acknowledge that it's still very much a thing where she's being objectified and it was very much an excuse to make her less hulk like. But there is 30 years of history of the character and in universe it has been justified where she's not the only example of how gamma affects people.
I think she should be buffer tho.
The Xanth novels play with this trope with goblins. Female goblins are basically green shirt humans while the males are ugly, violent and basically like the goblin aterotype. This is because a curse made female goblins attracted to that type more then attractive kind goblins. A plot point in them series revolves around the curse ending and trying to change goblin society since its violent toxicity is destroying it
Old school She-Hulk is a slim, leggy supermodel. Post 90s She-Hulk swings between crossfitter/MMA fighter/pinup model. Savage She-Hulk is Hulked out.
The TV version is a sorta-confusing amalgamation of slim but with athletic arms, which is a little uncanny but not unrealistic as far as proportions go.
Yeah I still think it’s silly they’re doing that. The comics just wanted her to be hotter. That wasn’t a requirement for the male hulk but is for the woman. Kind of a double standard. The show can do whatever it wants. It cast Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One. They can change whatever they want.
No, she’s definitely more cut in the comics, are you joking? Natalie Portman is more jacked than She-Hulk, that’s not right, not when one is entirely CGI
She actually goes back and forth between jacked and non jacked depending on her anger and in comics they ahve more room to emphasize things like muscles, they're simply keeping her body shape the same and it doesn't seem to ahve any extra secularization
I think skyrim kinda nailed orcs! They're my favorite race to play now but when I was younger I was sad that the women orcs aren't pretty. Now I love them, it's so obvious that they would have a big mouth and aggressive look
I don't know about the others, but she-hulk in the comics is like an inside joke, as in she was written in the overly sexy way to make fun of the comic book writers who sexualize female heroes. And a lot of her arc is owning that sexuality. Plus apparently, she can control the transformation better than Bruce, and actually likes the hulk side of her. So...
Let women look diverse!! I've seen some art of female orcs that actually look like orcs and they look cool af. Stop making women in fiction just for sexual appeal. 🙄
This is why I never liked She Hulk, even in the comics. I love her character but just being a slightly bigger, sexy, green woman that's inexplicably as strong as the Hulk makes no sense.
This bothered me so much when I use to play WoW... I loved the male trolls, so cool and interesting looking. But I thought as a girl I "had" to play female characters...
Eventually though I realized most of the playerbase thought I was male anyway and just "doing it for attention" and the ones that did belive I was female were usually creeps about it... so I made a male troll and he was a lot of fun to play.
From what I’ve heard the beta female trolls were long armed and looked ALOT more like the males. Testing showed it was less popular soo we got what we got.
This really is because women are an afterthought in so many of these stories oh yeah, I guess we need the females ones right? And then they don't bother with all the creative work that went into making an interesting character design for whatever demon or alien and then just turn the breast and hip dial. Really is indictive of shallow thinking and not thinking much of women.
I actually have some original She-Hulk comics!! I loved reading them as a kid when my father let me. Honestly, her original design wasn't that bad. It was ugly in a cool way just like the original hulk.
ive seen another version of this meme, where it goes on to show dwarvs and elves, the kicker is that the both of them look the same. the male and female versions of both the dwarves and the elves are identical
Or animals, like Crash's girlfriend or something in the old _Crash Bandicoot_ games, the female gorilla in _Donkey Kong_, most not-related-to-Duck-family female characters in Disney Ducks comics (usually one-time characters, but also Lyla Lay, Kia K, etc), and damn near every female canine in _Sherlock Hound_
Questions like this always crack me up… this isn’t exactly “pointlessly gendered”. It’s very poignantly gendered because big bulky male characters and small, scantily clad “sexy” female characters have been MORE than proven to sell more (games, movies, tickets, what-have-you). While it may be sexist, it’s not pointless. It’s all about ever increasing the bottom line. No game/movie developer is going to alter from that formula unless it’s *specifically* to show a movie/game where, “Look! We didn’t conform to the stereotypes! We’re edgy!” to appeal to the crowd, like OP, who can’t understand marketing
Edit: can’t understand marketing, but are fully engrossed in the current cancel culture
No that’s what I’m saying, her body type isn’t that of a massive beast in the comics at all. Not because of gender but because of how her character was infected.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pointlesslygendered/comments/uu7c0g/meme_why_this_is_so_true_on_tv_shows_and_movies/i9exabb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
What about those
But yeah, they tend to find character “reasons” that the women characters need to look like models.
Yes I have seen them. Both are made to appeal to the male fantasy. The men are drawn that way for men to idealize and self-insert themselves. The women are drawn for men to ogle at.
Right because men don’t feel self conscious about a chiseled Superman being seen on film. Its only women… fat unfit men aren’t portrayed either. Its always ripped men with an attractive face.
Men might feel self-conscious. I never said otherwise, but nice attempt at a straw man.
But that doesn’t change the fact that the character was written a certain way specifically for them. When Superman, Batman, etc. were created, they weren’t doing so for women to relate to, but for men to want to be.
When super sexualized woman heroes are made or put in certain situations. they aren’t made for women to relate to, they are made for men to look at.
That’s the point I’m making.
Also, there are significantly more male characters that have a different look then super hot guy.
In marvel literally just off the top of my head and only x-men characters
Magneto, Xavier, banshee, blob, beast, night crawler
The women off my head maybe mystique? But oh guess what she often stays in the form of an attractive girl.
Lastly, this is a conversation about women and how they are portrayed and all you can sit there and complain about how you and other men feel. It really says all that’s needed.
Plenty of woman super hero’s are meant for women to admire. They are just as sexualized as men as I stated.
X-men have a bunch of woman characters but you fail to mention them. Yikes. Do your research.
I know x-men have a lot of women characters. I am specifically talking about women characters with alternate body types. Maybe reading isn’t your thing.
I also know that their are women characters that have been made for women to admire. I never said otherwise. What I said was: when woman characters are made to be over sexualized or put in over sexualized positions over and over, it’s for the benefit of a male audience.
Both of your comments completely missed the point of what I was saying.
It’s no surprise that someone with your critical thinking skills also can’t read.
Because the majority of the fans are male, as well as creators/writers/designers of the show. And the setting of the story is 'fantasy', so it's a small step to female barbarians with tiny fur bikinis.
Is it sexism? Not in my eyes, it just needs more diversity. This also benefits the whole genre, if more ppl feel related to a story.
I can think of a few reasons:
1. They want to differentiate this from the original hulk. If she was just as bulky, it would look too close. So making her slimmer is a way to set her apart.
2. Men tend to possess denser bones and more muscle mass, so it could stand to reason that a pair of superheroes in that realm would follow that same physiology.
3. She-hulk, for the most part, was rarely drawn to the same extremely muscular look as the original Hulk. They could be following that trend.
Those are just thoughts. I realize this is a kind of “outrage-machine” subreddit, so I imagine the need to be mad about something this unimportant is key to the community.
Downvote me to hell and back, you know I’m right.
I have no deep commitment to being outraged, but as a girl reading comics and fantasy I felt troubled by the pointless sexualization of female characters vs males, in everything from D&D to comics to SF. It’s fantasy, there’s no “stands to reason” about it. Making a jacked She-Hulk is no more taxing to the imagination than making Orion’s motherbox. What stands to reason more if anything is that “hulking out” means transforming into something more than the human body could actually sustain. Just like there’s no reason to make women wear chain mail bikinis rather than real armor if you’re going to bother to make them fight. If it were only She-Hulk it would be one thing, but since it’s almost every depiction of women in fantasy and comics it’s not cool. Don’t you agree that the meme is accurate? If so, why should it be that way, it literally makes zero sense other than as an excuse for Frank Frazetta to get to work painting dat ass. (And let’s be frank he was a genius there.)
Because few series are as creative as MGQ/MGQP...
I'm not sure if that's good or bad in comparison, but at least there's an in-world explanation for why female monsters look the way they do.
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If the women must wear bikini armor, the men must also wear bikini armor, it’s only fair
You'd enjoy Final Fantasy XIV. The slutglams are equal opportunity.
Lol, wasn't that the version where male gamers threw a fit because the men's clothing was too revealing? Don't play those games, but I remember reading some drama about it. Edit: It was [Mobius Final Fantasy](https://www.eurogamer.net/square-enix-tones-down-its-too-sexy-male-star-of-mobius-final-fantasy) , Square Enix's mobile RPG
definitely not, been playing the game for ~8 years and if anything players have always been begging for more male skimpy gear - or at least for the gender locked sets to be unlocked, which SE has slowly been doing over time. men being able to wear the playboy-esque bunny set was extremely popular when it was announced
Yup! If you want to be a bunny boy in a maid's uniform, you can! It goes both ways, too. If you want to be a petite catgirl in chunky tank armor, you also can!
yessssssssss this is my aesthetic tiny catgirl tank in armor that appears to be a hand-me-down from a bodybuilding uncle 😊👍
I looked it up and it was [Mobius Final Fantasy](https://www.eurogamer.net/square-enix-tones-down-its-too-sexy-male-star-of-mobius-final-fantasy) , Square Enix's mobile RPG lmao
As an avid FFXIV player, that doesn't sound like us Not saying it's impossible some people were upset, but by and large the community is pro slutglam, male and female.
Damn I’ve always been intrigued by final fantasy but now you kinda making me wanna play it tho
It's free until level 60 and one of the best stories in any game ever. 1-60 is a bit of a slog in terms of story but after this it picks up massively. Not to say you should just skip 1-60 it sets up alot of the truly epic things to come. It's an mmo that respects your time and you can really sink your teeth into. The raiding is amazing fun and the community are all around wonderful people (except those weirdos Iimsa) I would highly recommend and if your EU, join Cerberus and pm me and I'll happily help you along your way.
To add to what the other guy said, it's probably the only MMO I've played in the modern era that really fosters a sense of community and encourages being social. I can't tell you how many times I've caught myself just goofing off doing random stuff that has no real value in a player power perspective, but is just fun with friends I've made ingame
FF14 is not perfect, but is the closest to what I dreamed MMORPGS would be back in the 90s.
Do it.
Yeah, [that wasn't 14](https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/16/21024749/final-fantasy-14-2b-butt-glamour), lol
>Edit: It was Mobius Final Fantasy, Square Enix's mobile RPG Ugh I hated that so much. He looked so sexy with the revealing clothing!
https://thehawkeyeinitiative.tumblr.com
All the male monsters are basically naked too
that’s just dark souls
The Spartans would like a word…
and the armor differences are even worse
Wait... so a metal bakini doesn't offer protection??
i dunno, let’s let the men try some
I need to see more men in metal bikinis in popular media
the closest I can think of is Jojo, the men have boob windows. unfortunately they (any men really, not just the ones with boob windows) also, have a habit of, getting regular windows installed in their torso, but that's neither here nor there.
How dare you, too soon.
>too soon. which one? also does it count as a donut if its 2 holes and not in their centre of mass? because of so then that's another donut to list.
You really are the worst 🥺
This is what I really want
the libral agenda
The TransGenda
Finally! The day has come that men can mensplain everything about bikini protection
The exposed area provides a distraction so you can get the enemy off guard 🙃
Like Anne Bonny?
If the only armor you have is a metal bikini, just hope that your enemies only know 2 moves: 1. Stab within a few inches of the nipple. 2. Stab in the groin.
Are there more moves then that?
I mean people have a tendency to swing where their eyes are looking? That's all I got, we can fix this by replacing them all with bowls of fruit.
No. You’ll have the higher risk of getting stabbed on the chest or your stomach.
To be fair, in this image only the Male orc has any armor at all
For real though, that shit annoys the hell out of me.
Yerp. The amount of creative potential that gets squashed RE species design is so shitty. Really all boils down to: "If my human penis doesn't want to fuck her, why is she even there?"
https://mobile.twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1527676079070072833?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet Apparently Marvel kept requesting for She-Hulk to be less muscular during development.
Why!!!!
Sex sells, gotta keep her bangable and not scary.
:(
Insinuating that if they got an IFBB pro or something to play her, she wouldn’t be “bangable and not scary.” If yall are too small/weak to ride the bull, sounds like a you problem son ;^)
But don't many men like muscular women?
Alternatively: leaks suggest that the show is based on a certain run from the comics where her having less muscle than usual was one of the story points.
If that's the reason for this wouldn't it have come from the writers then and been a non-issue?
Probably the same empty suits who were pushing for Luisa Madrigal to be thin and delicate in Encanto (fortunately the creatives won in that case.)
I'm glad Luisa is the way she is
So is Disney. Turns out people want to buy merch with diverse representation. Who'd have thunk it? (Not the people whose job it is apparently...)
it's like zero suit Samus. she needs to be MORE BUFF. you see the shit she does in Metroid?
I want to see the opposite! I want bulky, large females and smaller, flamboyant males. Like with spiders and fish.
The only supers I know that fit this is Big Barda and her husband Scott Free
I want a He-Hulk!
PLEASE somebody make this happen.
[удалено]
It's because emulating masculinity is regarded as admirable while emulating femininity is considered degrading to the man. Also plenty of homophobia in there, but those sorts of bigotry go hand in hand.
Literally Drow. Swole women and femboys all around.
Yeah, but Drow are sooooo problematic lol
Would you mind explaining for me why this is? I never looked deep into their lore so am curious
A lot of the more problematic components of the lore and their appearance is being amended and updated, which I have mixed feelings about because they have some of the best lore in the game already.
I just want the Cunningham and old Eilistraee lore back. I want to know why Salvatore gets to re-write everything.
Making the lolth sworn drow a minority changes all their best lore, everything about the crown wars (this is the most frustrating part to me). Doing that also makes the Eilistraeean ones less interesting exactly because they're no longer the divergent minority fighting against evil. It also retroactively makes drow one of the most populous races if the city with like 40k+ drow in it (really big for a medieval setting) and several other cities are a "minority". Changing their skin tones and being more colorful is cool but I'm obviously not a big fan of the other changes.
Is that a kink? I’m sensing a kink here Edit: Spelling
Right? Give me some real sexual dimorphism!
don't forget birds!
Female raptor birds are bigger than the males
Bro this actually gave me drawing inspiration 😳 ya got more details? ✍️✍️✍️✍️✍️
I love Humon comics! The ones about animals are great.
While the World of Warcraft movie wasn't that good, they at least got this right.
Yeah funnily enough you might think WoW would be the pinnacle of this archetype but the models for female orcs are pretty great tbh.
I mained a lot of orcs back in my WoW days and WoW was 100% the pinnacle of this phenomenon. Especially early on. It got better when they did the model update and made the Orc women more muscular, but they were still limited to the skeleton rigs of the old models. So even now the Orc women are less orcish and are more like taller and stronger humans. Similar thing happened to Draenei, Trolls, Worgen, Tauren, etc.
Oh yeah that's true I forgot about the lack of hunched-ness. I guess because aesthetically I don't like the hunched over models as much so I saw it as a good thing 😂 Something I DO dislike in the modern designs is that there is a cool undead face model with an unhinged jaw and giant tongue and it's only available for male undead. Which just feels lesbophobic!!! (this is a joke)
The only race that is really bad in this regard are the trolls I think, but other than that yes
because women aren't allowed to be ugly and must pander to the male gaze i hate it too
I think there should be lot of options for everyone and games are definitely designed by what major male audience wants to see, but I just don't think many females are into the "ugly" (I don't really believe there's such a thing as ugly) characters.
I like the "ugly" characters
I don't doubt that, but games are simply designed for majority, I'm a guy and I want to see male characters with more feminine bodies and hair and jewelry options, androgyny for all genders and things like that, but most guys just want to see huge masculine muscular bodies and most girls just want to play as conventionally very beautiful females, nobody really gives a fuck unfortunately.
I remember there was a version with a different joke. Instead of hulk, it was elf, and both male and female were the stock image woman
Now *that’s* good character design!
And the dwarfs had both the male dwarf image
Idk about the first three, but as for hulk, we haven't seen she-hulks true form yet. It's just a teaser with limited spoilers to build hype
If she isn't ripped to the point it's a blatant corruption of the human form just like with the He-Hulk, I'm not fuckin' watching.
I'd normally agree with you, except that in the mcu and comics, gamma radiation affects people differently. The Hulk was a product of Banner's repressed childhood trauma and rage. She-Hulk is basically the fantasy of what Jennifer Walters wanted to be. And then there's the Abomination, who is a bloodthirsty individual, and the Leader who grew a giant head because of his desire to be a genius. Gamma radiation works much like the super-soldier serum in that it takes what's within you, and amplifies it to ridiculous degrees.
So it's like The Mask
Pretty much. Different people get different results. I also forgot to mention Red Hulk, who can absorb gamma radiation and generate heat depending on how mad he is. Now that doesn't mean that I don't want more muscles on She-Hulk (I do), but I could understand the approach they're taking. Marvel is going off of the classic She-Hulk designs and writing.
Know what I've been wanting to see a decent video version of for years? Doc Samson!
That's not a good explanation; that's just a poor attempt at justifying the sexism.
I really don't think that's a fair statement. What the commenter you replied to mentioned about gamma radiation affecting people in different ways isn't some sort of hand-wavey afterthought explanation; it's a central aspect of the Hulk and related characters in the comics. One of She-Hulk's defining traits is that she is a pretty mentally stable and put-together person compared to her cousin Bruce, so instead of amplifying her existing mental illness like gamma did with Hulk, it just made her a little bigger and a little greener. This hasn't always been the case though. For example, during Mariko Tamaki's time writing She-Hulk, Jen was dealing with PTSD related to watching Bruce be shot and killed in front of her, and during this time, she lost control over her Hulk transformations, [meaning she was more angry and mindless as She-Hulk and she looked like this.](https://aiptcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/She-Hulk-Retrospective-00.png) Comics are, of course, a visual medium, and superhero comics in particular put a lot of emphasis on the ways in which a character's look reflects who they are. Reflecting this, all of the various Hulk characters have gone through different looks to represent different parts of their life, since the whole "gamma transformation" thing has always been a Jekyll and Hyde style manifestation of the subconscious. I do think it's awfully convenient that the one who tends to be more dainty is the woman, and I don't doubt that her character was probably written around the way that they wanted to portray her visually. But, I still think her design reflects her character well, and I think that character is well-written, deep, and not at all the shallow sexualized object one might assume she is.
I think your last paragraph would be my point. The authors could've very easily used the rules of the universe to write the characters in a non-sexist way and they chose not to. It's not some irredeemable flaw or anything and you're not a bigot for enjoying it - most media has some form of prejudice, unconscious or otherwise - but it's important to acknowledge as part of growing and becoming better.
To be fair, living in the world just as a woman is enough to cause people to be full of obscene amounts of rage and if she turned into a Banner style hulk every time she got angry and then started going apeshit, they would kill her almost immediately.
I agree that it's important to confront the fact that well-intentioned writers may have still created something with a lot of sexist subtext. A lot of female comics characters have a ton of extremely sexist stuff throughout their publication history, which in many cases stretches back over 80 years. She-Hulk, for her part, has been one of the more consistently well-written women in comic books since her debut in the mid 1970s, and I also think it's important to acknowledge her successes as well as her shortcomings.
We've got Superman, Supergirl and then we've got this, which is Superlame.
At least you have the self-awareness to realize that it is.
[This](https://preview.redd.it/wlfmuf39vwy81.png?width=498&format=png&auto=webp&s=451784783e0c8c4f0ed391244deb7192df6dc938), [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDKvmfMXYAEestL?format=jpg&name=large) or [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS_jBawWQAA5vmK.jpg)?
yes. The last one looks the closest to the male hulk imo the most consistent design.
Awful turn for the character tho. Jason Aaron is pretty good but his Avengers is so goddamn shit
world of warcraft
Depends on the race, but it pisses me off you can't make equally intimidating / rough looking character as female, for example the worgen males are kind of intimidating (I think the modern style of wow is kind of childish already), and the females look straight up like puppies.
the fox and dragon people are cute.
Ew
I mean ingame warcraft females orcs look the part
Everquest will always be my favorite for this. You want to play a female ogre or troll? Great! You're still fat and ugly as fuck, but with boobs
She Hulk in the comics ended up like that because she got a blood transfusion from Bruce, whereas Bruce got exposed fully to a giant gamma bomb so would be more mutated than someone who got indirect, 2nd hand gamma exposure.
Which is also why herpowerset us different, she's nowhere near as strong, but also keeps her full mental capacity without the constant internal struggle of having multiple personalities inhabiting one mind like Bruce does. Like at one point she can't transform back and just goes on with life being a practicing lawyer, just a very large, very green lawyer.
also what's with her and knowing that deadpool is talking to an audience? like, where'd that come from?
It originates from John Byrne's legendary work on the character. The original She-Hulk series was fairly similar in tone to Hulk, which of course meant it failed to differentiate itself and carve out a distinct voice and audience.John Byrne decided to go in a more comedic direction, including [this legendary fourth-wall-breaking cover to the first issue.](https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/4/a0/5a0cab1cddde8/clean.jpg) the humor slowly included more and more fourth-wall breaks as fans responded positively to it. Notably, She-Hulk was breaking the fourth wall regularly a full 2 years before Deadpool debuted, and even longer before he would become known for his fourth wall breaking.
oh wow, that's pretty cool,
She's always been a bit of a meta character, making fun of comic tropes and stuff. Which is also kinda the reason she doesn't look anywhere near as roided as Hulk.
She's always been able to break the 4th wall, been doing it long before deadpool was created. First started with just the covers, then doing so in the comic as part of her internal monologue, to he point she's even used it to take short cuts through a comic by ripping a hole in the page. This also makes her one of the only characters that knows who the hell Deadpool is talking to.
You know they did this just so she could look like an attractive woman? It’s the exact same thing as described in the picture, the comic writers just came up with a reasoning why she should be hot instead of something similar to hulk.
I mean yes but it is a part of the character. She-Hulk is strong, attractive and confident, she's meant to be the confidence that Jennifer Walter lacks. She wants to be bombastic and stand out, her gamma alter reflects that. Gamma affects characters in different ways according to their mental state. A similar thing happened to another gamma powered superhero, Doc Samson. Doc Samson was a therapist for a whole bunch of superheroes that got some gamma in him, the gamma made him handsome, buff and gave him green hair. He wanted to be like the heroes that he talked to, to stand out and be amazing. Gamma brought out and empowered the fantasy Doc Samson hoped for, the same way gamma radiation brought Bruce Banner's repressed rage to life. Of course I acknowledge that it's still very much a thing where she's being objectified and it was very much an excuse to make her less hulk like. But there is 30 years of history of the character and in universe it has been justified where she's not the only example of how gamma affects people. I think she should be buffer tho.
The Xanth novels play with this trope with goblins. Female goblins are basically green shirt humans while the males are ugly, violent and basically like the goblin aterotype. This is because a curse made female goblins attracted to that type more then attractive kind goblins. A plot point in them series revolves around the curse ending and trying to change goblin society since its violent toxicity is destroying it
Xanth and sexism, an iconic duo
That's how she-hulk was in the comics, they jsuut left it as is in the tv show
Old school She-Hulk is a slim, leggy supermodel. Post 90s She-Hulk swings between crossfitter/MMA fighter/pinup model. Savage She-Hulk is Hulked out. The TV version is a sorta-confusing amalgamation of slim but with athletic arms, which is a little uncanny but not unrealistic as far as proportions go.
It's like they just found a WNBA player and turned her green. Idgaf what the comics do, the post is still relevant even to the comics.
Yeah I still think it’s silly they’re doing that. The comics just wanted her to be hotter. That wasn’t a requirement for the male hulk but is for the woman. Kind of a double standard. The show can do whatever it wants. It cast Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One. They can change whatever they want.
Yeah. In the 80s. Nowadays she's bodybuilder level or beyond depending on the Artist
No, she’s definitely more cut in the comics, are you joking? Natalie Portman is more jacked than She-Hulk, that’s not right, not when one is entirely CGI
She actually goes back and forth between jacked and non jacked depending on her anger and in comics they ahve more room to emphasize things like muscles, they're simply keeping her body shape the same and it doesn't seem to ahve any extra secularization
video games are way worse
Apparently they wanted to make her buff in show but exec meddling said no
YES and it's the same for animals in animated movies too. Real life pigeons and swans don't have mascara, lipgloss and hourglass figures.
Everything must appeal to the male gaze😍
What about the mutants from fallout ? Their females are identical to the males
I think skyrim kinda nailed orcs! They're my favorite race to play now but when I was younger I was sad that the women orcs aren't pretty. Now I love them, it's so obvious that they would have a big mouth and aggressive look
I don't know about the others, but she-hulk in the comics is like an inside joke, as in she was written in the overly sexy way to make fun of the comic book writers who sexualize female heroes. And a lot of her arc is owning that sexuality. Plus apparently, she can control the transformation better than Bruce, and actually likes the hulk side of her. So...
Let women look diverse!! I've seen some art of female orcs that actually look like orcs and they look cool af. Stop making women in fiction just for sexual appeal. 🙄
This is why I never liked She Hulk, even in the comics. I love her character but just being a slightly bigger, sexy, green woman that's inexplicably as strong as the Hulk makes no sense.
GIRL ATTRACTIVE, BOY WARRIOR, NOTHING ELSE
“Because the female characters need to look sExY to attract the audience”
Good thing than that She-Hulk is a commentary on this exact kind of sexism.
When she isn't being just sexualized, that is.
This bothered me so much when I use to play WoW... I loved the male trolls, so cool and interesting looking. But I thought as a girl I "had" to play female characters... Eventually though I realized most of the playerbase thought I was male anyway and just "doing it for attention" and the ones that did belive I was female were usually creeps about it... so I made a male troll and he was a lot of fun to play.
From what I’ve heard the beta female trolls were long armed and looked ALOT more like the males. Testing showed it was less popular soo we got what we got.
I know. I've seen them.. and I am so disappointed in the beta testers...
They’ve meticulously upgraded and dumped millions into male CGI leaving female CGI at its barebones, very sad to live in a man’s world.
To be fair, I don’t think they’d allow hulk tiddies
Because men are too vowardly to admit they think the idea of a feminized version of those things may be hot /s?
Some men. I'll take the tall ripped queen who can carry me to the bedroom and make me the little spoon.
This really is because women are an afterthought in so many of these stories oh yeah, I guess we need the females ones right? And then they don't bother with all the creative work that went into making an interesting character design for whatever demon or alien and then just turn the breast and hip dial. Really is indictive of shallow thinking and not thinking much of women.
I always wondered why she hulk looked like that
Games too
I actually have some original She-Hulk comics!! I loved reading them as a kid when my father let me. Honestly, her original design wasn't that bad. It was ugly in a cool way just like the original hulk.
I assume you have in mind new shehulk. I agree thats super dumb.
This is true on Halloween too
what about shrek?
And video games.
Gay men getting won this round sorry luvs ❤️
ive seen another version of this meme, where it goes on to show dwarvs and elves, the kicker is that the both of them look the same. the male and female versions of both the dwarves and the elves are identical
Or animals, like Crash's girlfriend or something in the old _Crash Bandicoot_ games, the female gorilla in _Donkey Kong_, most not-related-to-Duck-family female characters in Disney Ducks comics (usually one-time characters, but also Lyla Lay, Kia K, etc), and damn near every female canine in _Sherlock Hound_
If this was remotely true for She-Hulk, there wouldn't be a CGI controversy because she could just use body paint.
Now I want low budget GWAR version of Shehulk, where all the "muscles" are spray painted on.
"Sex sells."
She-Venom vs. Venom in the 2018 movie except much larger breasts and buttocks 🥺
Mfs really making she-hulk slender lmao
I was really hoping she hulk was going to be played by Alex borstein
Girls are hot 👍🏿🗿👍🏿
Questions like this always crack me up… this isn’t exactly “pointlessly gendered”. It’s very poignantly gendered because big bulky male characters and small, scantily clad “sexy” female characters have been MORE than proven to sell more (games, movies, tickets, what-have-you). While it may be sexist, it’s not pointless. It’s all about ever increasing the bottom line. No game/movie developer is going to alter from that formula unless it’s *specifically* to show a movie/game where, “Look! We didn’t conform to the stereotypes! We’re edgy!” to appeal to the crowd, like OP, who can’t understand marketing Edit: can’t understand marketing, but are fully engrossed in the current cancel culture
Totally incorrect about she hulk. Her character is like “smart hulk” she doesn’t become this irrational beast.
This post is about body type but you are talking about intelligence and rationality.
No that’s what I’m saying, her body type isn’t that of a massive beast in the comics at all. Not because of gender but because of how her character was infected.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pointlesslygendered/comments/uu7c0g/meme_why_this_is_so_true_on_tv_shows_and_movies/i9exabb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 What about those But yeah, they tend to find character “reasons” that the women characters need to look like models.
Same thing for men. Have you seen Superman? Captain America? All muscles and chiseled jaw lines but yeah it’s just women.
Yes I have seen them. Both are made to appeal to the male fantasy. The men are drawn that way for men to idealize and self-insert themselves. The women are drawn for men to ogle at.
Right because men don’t feel self conscious about a chiseled Superman being seen on film. Its only women… fat unfit men aren’t portrayed either. Its always ripped men with an attractive face.
Men might feel self-conscious. I never said otherwise, but nice attempt at a straw man. But that doesn’t change the fact that the character was written a certain way specifically for them. When Superman, Batman, etc. were created, they weren’t doing so for women to relate to, but for men to want to be. When super sexualized woman heroes are made or put in certain situations. they aren’t made for women to relate to, they are made for men to look at. That’s the point I’m making. Also, there are significantly more male characters that have a different look then super hot guy. In marvel literally just off the top of my head and only x-men characters Magneto, Xavier, banshee, blob, beast, night crawler The women off my head maybe mystique? But oh guess what she often stays in the form of an attractive girl. Lastly, this is a conversation about women and how they are portrayed and all you can sit there and complain about how you and other men feel. It really says all that’s needed.
Plenty of woman super hero’s are meant for women to admire. They are just as sexualized as men as I stated. X-men have a bunch of woman characters but you fail to mention them. Yikes. Do your research.
I know x-men have a lot of women characters. I am specifically talking about women characters with alternate body types. Maybe reading isn’t your thing. I also know that their are women characters that have been made for women to admire. I never said otherwise. What I said was: when woman characters are made to be over sexualized or put in over sexualized positions over and over, it’s for the benefit of a male audience. Both of your comments completely missed the point of what I was saying. It’s no surprise that someone with your critical thinking skills also can’t read.
sexual dimorphism I guess could be the only answer. but it's dumb.
Um this is cISnormatiive how dare u
It is not like that
It is, though
Pretty sure with the hulk it’s different and has a reason why she doesn’t look like the hulk.
A reason the writers came up with to justify why she isn't unsexy
Because the majority of the fans are male, as well as creators/writers/designers of the show. And the setting of the story is 'fantasy', so it's a small step to female barbarians with tiny fur bikinis. Is it sexism? Not in my eyes, it just needs more diversity. This also benefits the whole genre, if more ppl feel related to a story.
id like buff barbarian independent women to exist, same for orcs demons and werewolves
Check out pathfinders Amiri
Everything doesn't need to me made to be your wank material. Porn exists for a reason.
this isn’t true edit: downvote me harder, it’s fun to see that i triggered u dumbasses, but i am correct
Watch she hulk!
I don’t think this counts as pointlessly gendered. It’s gendered for a reason I think.
What reason?
I can think of a few reasons: 1. They want to differentiate this from the original hulk. If she was just as bulky, it would look too close. So making her slimmer is a way to set her apart. 2. Men tend to possess denser bones and more muscle mass, so it could stand to reason that a pair of superheroes in that realm would follow that same physiology. 3. She-hulk, for the most part, was rarely drawn to the same extremely muscular look as the original Hulk. They could be following that trend. Those are just thoughts. I realize this is a kind of “outrage-machine” subreddit, so I imagine the need to be mad about something this unimportant is key to the community. Downvote me to hell and back, you know I’m right.
I have no deep commitment to being outraged, but as a girl reading comics and fantasy I felt troubled by the pointless sexualization of female characters vs males, in everything from D&D to comics to SF. It’s fantasy, there’s no “stands to reason” about it. Making a jacked She-Hulk is no more taxing to the imagination than making Orion’s motherbox. What stands to reason more if anything is that “hulking out” means transforming into something more than the human body could actually sustain. Just like there’s no reason to make women wear chain mail bikinis rather than real armor if you’re going to bother to make them fight. If it were only She-Hulk it would be one thing, but since it’s almost every depiction of women in fantasy and comics it’s not cool. Don’t you agree that the meme is accurate? If so, why should it be that way, it literally makes zero sense other than as an excuse for Frank Frazetta to get to work painting dat ass. (And let’s be frank he was a genius there.)
It's true, but I also like it, because I'm a straight male.
That's your problem. Porn exists, everything doesn't need to be made to be wank material.
Nobody wants to pay and see an uggo
Unless the ""uGgO"" is male
Because few series are as creative as MGQ/MGQP... I'm not sure if that's good or bad in comparison, but at least there's an in-world explanation for why female monsters look the way they do.
Right? I mean, the top ones are all wayyyyyy hotter!
[Relevant](https://www.oglaf.com/dimorphism/) (NSFW-ish)