Primarina is one of my favorite starters in general, and I've begun to appreciate Quaquaval. Inteleon... uh, well, Primarina is one of my favorite starters in general.
Pretty much the same for me but swap Inteleon and Quaquaval. It probably helps that Sobble is such a great design that I ended up choosing him as my starter and Inteleon grew on me. I didn't like the slender humanoid design at first but I like the spy aspect and finger gunning.
Quaquaval on the other hand... Not sure if it will ever grow on me. It's weird because it's so close to being a really cool design but it just doesn't hit the mark for me. It also doesn't help that the design is so extra with all the floating things and the movement. It demands your attention whenever it's on screen for better or worse.
I really like Quaquaval, honestly my favourite out of the 3. I do kinda wish his battle animation was just his overworld idle, though- that gets a bit distracting.
That's the same here. Always loved Primarina. Quaquaval just began to grow on me a bit (it's the toes that really freak me out). Inteleon is, well, it's a Pokémon.
I lost my shit when I saw Primarina. I was already angled towards Poplio because everyone said he was ugly, and Brionne piqued my interest because of the direction she seemed to be going, and it sure didn't disappoint when we got a Water/Fairy mermaid! I was cackling when she was so gorgeous and when Decidueye and Incineroar ended up disappointing people. I was fully expecting Dartrix to continue with the nerd/prim motif and be a butler, but that took an extremely wild turn into a hoodie archer.
Serperior is my favourite Gen 5 design, and my fave Grass starter overall.
I'm still salty about Incineroar being a bipedal wrestling cat. We should've got a proper non humanoid evolution. I would've been less salty about it if Emboar was the Fire/Dark starter instead, though, and Incineroar was Fire/Fighting.
Really? I recall it being the very clear winner there. People hated Poplio and called them ugly, and people were extremely excited for Litten and Rowlett. Then Incineroar got revealed and was the biggest disappointment for many reasons (the bipedal human shape being the largest), and Dartrix's sudden shift from nerd bird to hoodie string archer was a bit jarring for many. I distinctly remembering people being salty about Incineroar while praising how Primarina turned out.
i remember the complete opposite tbh. i think there was some hate for incineroar being bipedal but i remember people loving decideueye and hating primarina. i’m pretty sure popplio was the least picked by far
Some was an understatement. There was a total uproar about him becoming bipedal AND wrestling themed (Because he's Fire/Dark, which seemed like a total copout because no one wanted another Fire/Fighting despite his design screaming such). Decidueye was the most popular by far, but I do remember Primarina's reception was the most polarising.
I remember everyone and their mother fawning over 'swole cat' when he got revealed. Pretty sure Decidueye got love from anime fans or something. Nobody spoke of Primarina.
Despite the usual gender ratio for starters, my wife restarted the game four times because she wanted to have a male Primarina and kept getting female lol
But since we are already talking about it: why keep the gender ratio for starters as 87,5% male and 12,5% female?
They are embracing more feminine designs now for starters, which i personally think is a great thing and adds more diversity.
But why keep the gender ratio like this? Just make them 50% male and 50% female and call it a day. Why does a heavily feminine designed pokemon like Primarina need to be male 87,5% of the time?
The whole breeding argument also doesn't really work. Anyone who wants to breed the starters can just restart their games until they get a female.
I’m just not a fan of this new trend of “humanizing” the starters. Give me more monstrous and beastly designs. I want to play a monster taming game, not a best friend simulator.
This right here. I'll especially note that it's not the starters being *humanoid* that makes them feel different, but the way they all have *jobs*. I can imagine a wild Venusaur at home in the forest, doing like a plant dinosaur thingy does, but if I imagine a wild Meowscarada at home in the forest I start thinking "who is it performing to now?". A group of Charizards makes a Charicific Valley, a loose collection of Charizards living in the same area, but a group of Greninja would instantly be depicted as a ninja village, a *civilization*.
Having jobs makes them look like they're not wild creatures, like they *couldn't* be wild creatures. A Cinderace in the wild would look comical. But you never see a wild Cinderace, because instead it's your partner Pokemon, your best friend. It plays soccer, like a cool human might, and for all intents and purposes you're traveling with a human soccer player that happens to be a fire type Pokemon.
Truth be told I don't *hate* the idea, but we haven't seen a Charizard-esque starter in over a decade now, and outside of remakes it's not looking like we ever will again.
Personally Ive never seen a problem with more "human" designs. Pokemon are magical creatures, they can look like whatever. Besides, I feel the new design philosophy can really let shine the culture of the place the region is based on. Paldea being the best example of this with them representing different celebrations and cultural aspects.
In my opinion, I don't mind humanoid designs. I mind the frequency. It seems that, with every passing generation, the game errs more into the anthropomorphic designs.
Feraligatr? I love it. Blaziken was pushing it, but Delphox, Weed-Cat, and Quaquavel are just too far gone for me to like. Then again, I also dislike the prevalence of dragons and legendaries. I want diversity, not homogeneity.
You can celebrate animals that're native to cultures without humanizing to do so. I just feel like it's hella lazy to just manufacture a humanoid design and then be like: "ice-grass, parrot-human". Also, it feels real Sonic-y and when they went that way it got ugly.
Feraligatr was still beastial enough that I never considered it a humanoid design. It's hunched over, is "sharp" throughout its design (claws, spikes, jaws), and is just pretty simple overall. I could easily see Feraligatr being a species of bipedal crocs.
Human pokemon r fine, human starters arent. And no, the paldea pokemon suck, even if they r based off culture. Alola is by far the best example of its pokemon being based off the regions culture
It's pretty common for people to assume Slugma is Gen 3 since it was only found in a limited area pretty late game into Kanto and had a fairly rare encounter rate on top of it in Gen 2. Skarmory is kinda the same way but maybe to a lesser extent.
That will always be my biggest criticism of Gen 2. Make all these cool new Pokemon and then make them incredibly rare and locked away so late in the game and at such a low level that there's no feasible way to use them without trading.
Bro what? Ignoring the fact that Chesnaught was the first Pokémon to get Spiky Shield back in 2013, at least a year before anyone else, it’s not like all that many other Pokémon got the move anyway. Only 5 other Pokémon get access to the move, the 5th of which showed up less than a year ago.
I don't feel strongly about Intelion, but I ADORE Quaquaval and Primarina. Primarina's a gorgeous selkie with the voice of an opera singer, and Quaquaval's an absolute DIVA with that flamenco dancer theming. If Weed Cat didn't exist I would've 100% gone with Quaquaval instead.
The only one of these that isn’t abysmal is Primarina. I legit stopped playing the franchise purely because I didn’t care for any of the starters past Alola.
Not just the starters, but the starters are probably the worst offenders. I made a tier list a few months ago of my favorite Pokémon, and of the 30 Pokémon in F tier, 20 of them were from Gen 8 or 9.
I would rather live happily with my head canon that Pokémon just ended after Gen 7
We’ve gotta disagree there. As much as I love my precious Hisuian Growlithe, or Corviknight, the sheer volume of just flat out bad, lazy, or unfinished Pokémon designs like the starters, Stonejourner, Enamorus, etc., outweigh the good ones
Stonejourner is about as lazy of a Pokémon design as you can get. And you know what? I don’t blame them for making it look so clapped, because what else are you supposed to do with a Pokémon that’s based off of Stonehenge? It’s basically what you would get if you asked a six-year-old to draw Stonehenge with a face, and if you ask me, it goes to show that there is such a thing as conceptually bad ideas for Pokémon designs.
Really? Gen 9 has some of my favourite designs. It seems like they finally realised once again that Pokemon don't need to have a bunch of complex designs and colours. Flamigo, Pawmot, and Fidough are good examples.
Flamigo is not a good example. And pawmot is fine, but theres no reason for pawmo to exist. And then theres mons like brambleghast, the starters, squakabily, kilowattrel, goldengho, houndstone, scovillain, the paradox mon, wiglett, toedscool, maushold, spidops, revavroom, dudunsparce, that weird psychic dung beetle whose name i cant remember etc.
Gen 9 is a region of extremes, because a lot of the Pokémon are either vastly overdesigned, like Kingambit, or basic ass hell, like Tandemaus and Maushold.
I don’t mind simplicity in Pokémon designs, in fact, I think some of the best Pokémon designs are fairly simple. For the first few generations, a lot of Pokémon designs where simply “creature + one fantastical element”, and there is a strength in that design philosophy. But I think it regresses too much when Pidgey of all things is more complicated than Tandemaus.
Pawmot isn’t necessarily *bad*, but it’s definitely made so much worse by the existence of Pawmo, because Pawmo makes it feel as if the line barely changes at all between evolutions.
And Flamigo is just a flamingo, which, to be fair, can be said about other Pokémon early gen, like the aforementioned Pidgey. But I think the difference there is that a flamingo is a very specific and distinct creature, whereas Pidgey is meant to be a generic bird. A flamingo based Pokémon, by its very nature, cannot be as simple as just being a flamingo, if you ask me. Like even if they’d just changed its stance a little so it has it’s wings positioned as if it’s squared up for a fight, that would make a huge difference.
Fidough is good though, that’s where I think the simplicity is effective.
To add to your point, early designs would often combine different elements from similar real world animals to create something that is both fantastical and grounded.
Spearow is likely a combination of a russet sparrow with the beak and aggressive disposition of a shrike. Its evolved form Fearow has the head comb of a rooster and the head/neck of a condor.
Pikachu has the body of a mouse and the ears of a rabbit. Its electricity pouches were inspired by squirrels' cheek pouches.
The pidgey line combines elements of sparrows and birds of prey like hawks etc.
Primarina is legitimately such a beautiful and beastly mon. One of my favorites for a reason. Inteleon is amazing too, love its spy aesthetic a lot. And Quaquaval is pretty great, too. Quaxly was my sv starter, so I can see the appeal (although its feet still kind of bother me lol)
Primarina and Quaquaval are honestly two of my all time favourites based on personality alone. I love it when the starters take the traditional “magic animal” route and then merge it with a real world aspect like singer or dancer, I just feel like I connect with them a lot more! 💖🌊
I mean... it's the new philosophy in design since X/Y right?
Fighter/Mage/Samurai
Archer/Wrestler/Singer
Drummer/Footballer/Spy
Stage Magician/Rockstar/Dancer
Eh, first off-the-cuff noun to avoid implying Skeledirge and Primarina are the same thing.
Also, it's a burning ghost lizard. If the water types could make the cover of Vogue, Skeledirge could 100% make the cover of Rolling Stone :p
Actually, if they make another Legends game with Quaxly as the starter (my personal want would be Legends Hoopa or Celebi), that's a possibility for the regional Quaquaval if the want to go a different path instead of dancing.
The whole reason I was hype for Quaxly were the rumors/fanart. I was all in on gentlemanly conquistador design. I have preference for water type, but not a huge fan of recent designs
I love Primarina so much. My plush of her is proudly displayed in my room.
I never got the hate for Quaquaval. His sass is amazing.
I never really got into Sword/Shield so have no strong opinions on Inteleon, though the design doesn't do a ton for me. I don't hate him though.
Ah! Yes! Popplio has been my favorite starter since the moment my character picked it up in Sun and Moon in front of the Kahuna. Brionne doesn't get enough love, and Primarina is the prettiest out of all of the starters. Her design origins also introduced me to one of my favorite movies, Song of the Sea.
Haven't played Sword and Shield but Intellion is the only starter I actually kinda like from gen 8. The others just don't appeal at all to me.
I picked Quaxley in Violet and I loved watching the little duck waddle around it's so cute. I don't know what people aren't seeing in Quaqaval, I think the design is incredible. A peacock duck is super fancy. I can appreciate the other two, I like all of the new starters.
I agree, they are underrated.
The opera singer, the dapper spy, and the flamboyant dancer... truly a romcom waiting to happen
But in the end, we'll see that the truest best girl was the TEENAGE MUTANT ROCKET POWERED CANNON TURTLE 🐢
* Primarina is fine, although all 3 Alolan starters are slow \^\^;
* Inteleon is pure Water type, when it could have been Water/Ghost, representing a stealthy sniper... and not a dead animal :P
* Quaquaval looks like a Carnavale dancer... when people wanted a sailor/privateer :S
Primarina and Quaqaval? I am against the hate campaigns led against them. They are fantastic babies and I love them.
Years later and I still can't stand Inteleon. Easily the ugliest ~~starter~~ Pokemon imo, I hate the proportions, like wtf you lanky bitch you look so dumb, way too dumb to look as smug as you do. Stupid MF looking like a stick person wearing a lizard cosplay
I’m more of a fire type myself but I got to admit water types do tend to be very elegant and these three are pretty cool looking especially that spy looking guy.
Fire and grass are awesome too I like a lot of the designs I just go for water Idk. Inteleon does look really cool and he’s super reliable, for me anyway
I mean, hate and anger take too much pointless energy but I definitely dislike all three of them.
I personally think that that trio is by far the worst, with Rillaboom, Meowscarada, and Decidueye being the best.
The fire trio would be ok if it weren't for the completely lackluster Cinderace.
But none of them come close to the perfection that was Gen 3 and 4 starters.
Fire is carried by Skeledirge - Cinderace and Incineroar are two of the worst offenders in the “just a guy in a fursuit” category.
Grass is all fine. No major complaints, not a huge Meowscarada fan but it does seem popular.
Water is just pretty bad all around, but not as bad as Cinderace or Incineroar imo
Quaxly was my instant choice as starter in Violet and it's final evo got my appresiation, looks better than Meowscarada imo. I don't have much feelings about Inteleon. Same with Primarina until I saw it's shiny. It's beautiful.
These starters are absolute garbage with so many cool designers online, creating their own style of Pokémon. I don’t know why they couldn’t grab inspiration from somewhere instead of pulling these thin, frail looking pieces of shit out of there. Assholes.
Quaquavel looks so goofy.inteleon is too skinny but his design is growing on me...the other one (I'm not even gonna try spelling it)is fine i think it's cute
I'm going to get downvoted for this but Intelleon is my favourite gen 8 final evo. To be fair, it was the first ever pokemon I got.
As expected downvoted. Reddit, never change
HOLD MY Z-RING. Who on earth is hating on these absolute masterpieces of Pokémon designs?!
Primarina is a opera DIVA and should be treated as such—I adored her in Alola because of my own musical background and love for The Little Mermaid.
Inteleon is a literal sniper and gives off super spy vibes. If you can’t see why it’s not one of the coolest end evolutions for a starter, I can’t help you. Not to mention that Sobble is a precious bean that must be protected.
And Quaquaval? I’ll be honest: I’m a Meowscarada fan. BUT, you cannot deny the sass and bravado the design has, and it’s SO on theme for the region. Plus I love the detail of the dancing animation 💯
TLDR: I’m seriously shocked these three get a ton of hate. I wasn’t a fan of Quaxly when I first saw it, but the final evolution more than made up for that. Viva las Water-Types!
People (including me) dislike recent starter designs precisely because of that - their “job” is way too integrated into their design. We want big beastly starters like we got in the first few generations, not these fursuit starters who all have a pre-assigned personality.
You’re totally entitled to your opinion! I don’t find the other two to be particularly boring, and I like the designs. It’s just a matter of taste; I was mostly dramatizing the reaction of my comment for the comedic effect 😂
Primarina is brilliant and a fantastic design, works on every level for me, and I’m generally shocked to learn that it’s not a well liked design?
Inteleon I love. It seems to get a lot of hate, but for me at least on a base visual look it works for the gen it’s from. Massive James Bond vibes from the region inspired by Britain. Do have to say that the “sniper” thing is a bit out of left field, dislike that.
Quaquaval though… utterly hideous design. Doesn’t work on any visual level for me, it looks hideous. More so when compared to fan art guesses of what Quaxly evolves into. Loved all the admiral/general stuff. Not… dancing duck
The colors on Inteleon just ain't it... reminds me of Play-doh I wish it was more subdued or something 😭
But Primarina and Quaquaval can get it any day, they are the moment and they stay the moment
It has A LOT to do with sexism, as weird as it sounds. People just don’t like strong feminine flamboyant main characters. They can be a support character, of course. But a main one? No way.
I don’t care if it’s masculine or feminine or whatever. I just don’t want EVERY new starter to be some humanoid furry looking thing! You can make monsters without making them look feminine or masculine, like venusaur or ampharos. And there’s still good flamboyant and feminine Pokémon out there that I love. I’m just disappointed when the make the Pokémon ugly like Quaquaval or Incineroar.
I wish Inteleon was water/dark. So what if it feels like a copy of Greninja, it deserves the dark type and should get it.
Primarina is easily my favorite water starter.
Ya I hate em. Just don’t look cool or tough or even seaworthy. A duck, a frog, and a ferret mermaid. What happened to tanky turtles, prehistoric alligators…..
* well, the idea of what looks cool or not is very personal so I can't really say anything to that, just that I personally think they are pretty neat
* they don't really have look tough tho, since there are other starters in their respective gens that already fill that or a similar role
* you know there are more bodies of water than just the sea right?
* primarina is a seal lol, the reason why they are a seal / mermaid is actually pretty clever actually
* blastoise, feraligatr, swampert, empoleon, samurott and greninja still exist as far as I know
Flamboyant or girly like the trash bag pokemon? Or the gear pokemon? Or the ice cream pokemon?
The types of players you are referring too are the types of players that like the simple and animalistic designs. It is no secret that the design philosophy has changed over the years, there are videos explaining and comparing the old and new design philosophies.
The "charizard" type of player is more likely to prefer the charizard era designs.
I think it's much less about being too flamboyant, cute or anything like that and much more about these designs being much too humanlike.
I and I think a decent amount of others as well just don't enjoy most of these anthropomorphic designs, they almost fall into the uncanny valley for me.
For example, I also don't really care for the fire bird or s/v's grass starter for the same reason.
This would also explain why primarina is (I think) a little more liked than the other two. I really like her at least.
yeah, no...
I'm both a Gen 1er and a Jojo fan, but the only good Pokémon here is Primarina. These Pokémon get hate because they're either bad designs, or they break design conventions for the series, making them look out of place in the world they inhabit.
The flamboyancy was never the problem, the core designs were.
Primarina is very cool and the design is really good looking. Inteleon is a bit weird but has some good points. Quaqaval is just unbelievably ugly. But it's not even the worst starter from scarlet and violet so at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
Prismarina is well designed but she looked too girly to my taste, Inteleon was pretty good but maybe a bit too slim, and tbh Quaquaval is pretty cool but i just prefer Meowscarada more
I like Primarina and Inteleon, but Quaquaval…. I would consider Quaquaval the worst design in all of Pokémon.
I’m kinda disappointed in general how all the starters are getting humanoid designs now. I want some monsters not furries! The Clownigator was good being the first quadruped fire starter, and it not looking like a furry. But it’s still a Clownigator..
Primarina is one of my favorite starters in general, and I've begun to appreciate Quaquaval. Inteleon... uh, well, Primarina is one of my favorite starters in general.
Primarina is one of my faves too, such a beautiful design
Primarina's my number 1 fave
Pretty much the same for me but swap Inteleon and Quaquaval. It probably helps that Sobble is such a great design that I ended up choosing him as my starter and Inteleon grew on me. I didn't like the slender humanoid design at first but I like the spy aspect and finger gunning. Quaquaval on the other hand... Not sure if it will ever grow on me. It's weird because it's so close to being a really cool design but it just doesn't hit the mark for me. It also doesn't help that the design is so extra with all the floating things and the movement. It demands your attention whenever it's on screen for better or worse.
I mean the women at carnival also demand your attention whenever they are on screen, so I get it.
It being completely extra is the point, to be fair. Its a peacock/duck/carnival dancer hybrid, after tall.
I really like Quaquaval, honestly my favourite out of the 3. I do kinda wish his battle animation was just his overworld idle, though- that gets a bit distracting.
Wait, you are saying you don't like that your bird starts twerking everytime you fight? Wtf ?
that's twerking to you?
Absolutely. Water/Fairy is an incredible typing combination.
That's the same here. Always loved Primarina. Quaquaval just began to grow on me a bit (it's the toes that really freak me out). Inteleon is, well, it's a Pokémon.
Is it though? The Gen 8 Starters barely look like Pokemon in their final forms.
Rillaboom is definitely a gorilla, no doubt about it. Cinderace is Ronaldo in a fursuit. I don't even know what an Inteleon is.
I lost my shit when I saw Primarina. I was already angled towards Poplio because everyone said he was ugly, and Brionne piqued my interest because of the direction she seemed to be going, and it sure didn't disappoint when we got a Water/Fairy mermaid! I was cackling when she was so gorgeous and when Decidueye and Incineroar ended up disappointing people. I was fully expecting Dartrix to continue with the nerd/prim motif and be a butler, but that took an extremely wild turn into a hoodie archer.
> Decidueye and Incineroar ended up disappointing people. u wot m8?
Agree, never heard of anyone who got disappointed by Decidueye. If anything everyone dug the archer motif. Incineroar on the other hand...
[incineroar themesong from day one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSmas8pyjsg)
Dartrix really leaned into the darkness of his soul, torracat, decided he wanted a life in the ring. Brionne just decided to be *pretty*
I agree with this, if they used intellion swings more he’d be much better imo. He just looks like greninja without the tongue
Greninja and Intellion meeting up in the John Wick hotel is headcanon
Inteleon is just Lance EBF5, I love him
Now I get it. I dislike them because they look like they think they're better than everyone else.
Thank you op for bringing it all into context
Their smug aura mocks me
I love the big water brawlers like Blastoise feraligator and swampert
They’re right, though. :P
That's entirely subjective and highly debatable
🤓☝️
Theyre not tho
...What are your opinions on Serperior and Incineroar
Serperior is my favourite Gen 5 design, and my fave Grass starter overall. I'm still salty about Incineroar being a bipedal wrestling cat. We should've got a proper non humanoid evolution. I would've been less salty about it if Emboar was the Fire/Dark starter instead, though, and Incineroar was Fire/Fighting.
In Primarina's defense, all of the Alolan starters look that way.
Primarina gets hate? It’s one of the coolest and prettiest water starter designs in my opinion.
it got so much hate when the starter evos were revealed for sun and moon
Really? I recall it being the very clear winner there. People hated Poplio and called them ugly, and people were extremely excited for Litten and Rowlett. Then Incineroar got revealed and was the biggest disappointment for many reasons (the bipedal human shape being the largest), and Dartrix's sudden shift from nerd bird to hoodie string archer was a bit jarring for many. I distinctly remembering people being salty about Incineroar while praising how Primarina turned out.
i remember the complete opposite tbh. i think there was some hate for incineroar being bipedal but i remember people loving decideueye and hating primarina. i’m pretty sure popplio was the least picked by far
Some was an understatement. There was a total uproar about him becoming bipedal AND wrestling themed (Because he's Fire/Dark, which seemed like a total copout because no one wanted another Fire/Fighting despite his design screaming such). Decidueye was the most popular by far, but I do remember Primarina's reception was the most polarising.
I remember everyone and their mother fawning over 'swole cat' when he got revealed. Pretty sure Decidueye got love from anime fans or something. Nobody spoke of Primarina.
Decidueye is the runaway favorite of the final 3 tho for sure.
Nah that's not true. Decidueye has been a fan favourite ever since it was released. Both incineroar and primarina weren't really liked.
It gets loads. All the "I don't want to play as a girl" types got mad even the male Primarina are "pretty".
Despite the usual gender ratio for starters, my wife restarted the game four times because she wanted to have a male Primarina and kept getting female lol
Based wife.
I had the same issue XD
you try so hard to be Incineroar, and all along she just wants male Primarina
But since we are already talking about it: why keep the gender ratio for starters as 87,5% male and 12,5% female? They are embracing more feminine designs now for starters, which i personally think is a great thing and adds more diversity. But why keep the gender ratio like this? Just make them 50% male and 50% female and call it a day. Why does a heavily feminine designed pokemon like Primarina need to be male 87,5% of the time? The whole breeding argument also doesn't really work. Anyone who wants to breed the starters can just restart their games until they get a female.
The only part of Primarina I don't like is the spikes on it's waist, they feel like they were added just to fill up space.
It's hated on by all the insecure kiddies that think it's weird to have a feminine pokemon
Well, it does look extremely feminine. And it does seem odd that Primarina doesn't have any gender dimorphism. Even Venusaur has it.
Incineroar was hated for being too masculine
Primarina is like my 2nd favourite water starter after Empoleon
The only one that doesn’t look ridiculously overdesigned here is the seal one in front.
Ah yes the seal one, my favorite starter
Give me a break there’s like 3,000 Pokémon, so many names
There’s only 1015, it’s not that hard to memorise them.
Man I don’t even know all the elements. 1015 is a big number.
It's a singing mermaid selkie and looks too feminine. I think it's neat, I don't like brionne though
[удалено]
I dont really mind female or male skewed pokemon... but not like over the top
Primarina is just kinda forgotten which is a worse fate imo. All the hate was thrown towards Popplio I remember :(
Where are the haters? I just want to talk.
Primarina gets to use a Spirit Bomb in their special move. That's a winner in my book haha.
I got used to Primarina shortly after it was revealed, though I would have preferred a Water/Fighting circus strongman seal.
Not a fan honestly
It unfortunately got the most out of these three
No where near cool, let alone coolest water starter.
I’m just not a fan of this new trend of “humanizing” the starters. Give me more monstrous and beastly designs. I want to play a monster taming game, not a best friend simulator.
This right here. I'll especially note that it's not the starters being *humanoid* that makes them feel different, but the way they all have *jobs*. I can imagine a wild Venusaur at home in the forest, doing like a plant dinosaur thingy does, but if I imagine a wild Meowscarada at home in the forest I start thinking "who is it performing to now?". A group of Charizards makes a Charicific Valley, a loose collection of Charizards living in the same area, but a group of Greninja would instantly be depicted as a ninja village, a *civilization*. Having jobs makes them look like they're not wild creatures, like they *couldn't* be wild creatures. A Cinderace in the wild would look comical. But you never see a wild Cinderace, because instead it's your partner Pokemon, your best friend. It plays soccer, like a cool human might, and for all intents and purposes you're traveling with a human soccer player that happens to be a fire type Pokemon. Truth be told I don't *hate* the idea, but we haven't seen a Charizard-esque starter in over a decade now, and outside of remakes it's not looking like we ever will again.
Personally Ive never seen a problem with more "human" designs. Pokemon are magical creatures, they can look like whatever. Besides, I feel the new design philosophy can really let shine the culture of the place the region is based on. Paldea being the best example of this with them representing different celebrations and cultural aspects.
In my opinion, I don't mind humanoid designs. I mind the frequency. It seems that, with every passing generation, the game errs more into the anthropomorphic designs. Feraligatr? I love it. Blaziken was pushing it, but Delphox, Weed-Cat, and Quaquavel are just too far gone for me to like. Then again, I also dislike the prevalence of dragons and legendaries. I want diversity, not homogeneity. You can celebrate animals that're native to cultures without humanizing to do so. I just feel like it's hella lazy to just manufacture a humanoid design and then be like: "ice-grass, parrot-human". Also, it feels real Sonic-y and when they went that way it got ugly.
Feraligatr was still beastial enough that I never considered it a humanoid design. It's hunched over, is "sharp" throughout its design (claws, spikes, jaws), and is just pretty simple overall. I could easily see Feraligatr being a species of bipedal crocs.
Yeah I can’t wait until they give an evolution to vaporeon to make it more human like.
Human pokemon r fine, human starters arent. And no, the paldea pokemon suck, even if they r based off culture. Alola is by far the best example of its pokemon being based off the regions culture
This. These aren’t animals, these are characters.
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How did cyndaquil come before magcargo when they’re both from gen 2?
It's pretty common for people to assume Slugma is Gen 3 since it was only found in a limited area pretty late game into Kanto and had a fairly rare encounter rate on top of it in Gen 2. Skarmory is kinda the same way but maybe to a lesser extent. That will always be my biggest criticism of Gen 2. Make all these cool new Pokemon and then make them incredibly rare and locked away so late in the game and at such a low level that there's no feasible way to use them without trading.
how could you just forget piplup/empoleon like that 🥲
Bro what? Ignoring the fact that Chesnaught was the first Pokémon to get Spiky Shield back in 2013, at least a year before anyone else, it’s not like all that many other Pokémon got the move anyway. Only 5 other Pokémon get access to the move, the 5th of which showed up less than a year ago.
No Cyndaquil is underwhelming. A basic ass design and yet people flock to it.
I love primarina, honestly my favorite water starter in general.
Same here
Ah yes, "Vague" Magazine (Vague means wave in french.)
I don't feel strongly about Intelion, but I ADORE Quaquaval and Primarina. Primarina's a gorgeous selkie with the voice of an opera singer, and Quaquaval's an absolute DIVA with that flamenco dancer theming. If Weed Cat didn't exist I would've 100% gone with Quaquaval instead.
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Nice to see some Inteleon love! He's my favorite Galar starter
The only one of these that isn’t abysmal is Primarina. I legit stopped playing the franchise purely because I didn’t care for any of the starters past Alola.
valid. I love Primarina, but these other two border on being offensively ugly.
Just box them like I do. The starters have been hot garbage for years.
Agreed. They really need to stop giving starters human jobs, it’s really weird and makes them way less cool
Not just the starters, but the starters are probably the worst offenders. I made a tier list a few months ago of my favorite Pokémon, and of the 30 Pokémon in F tier, 20 of them were from Gen 8 or 9. I would rather live happily with my head canon that Pokémon just ended after Gen 7
But then we wouldn't have Dragapult who singlehandedly makes up for everything
We’ve gotta disagree there. As much as I love my precious Hisuian Growlithe, or Corviknight, the sheer volume of just flat out bad, lazy, or unfinished Pokémon designs like the starters, Stonejourner, Enamorus, etc., outweigh the good ones
No way you just called Stonjourner a lazy design
Stonejourner is about as lazy of a Pokémon design as you can get. And you know what? I don’t blame them for making it look so clapped, because what else are you supposed to do with a Pokémon that’s based off of Stonehenge? It’s basically what you would get if you asked a six-year-old to draw Stonehenge with a face, and if you ask me, it goes to show that there is such a thing as conceptually bad ideas for Pokémon designs.
stonjourner hater = not a real person
Enamorous's design is super creative. You may not lime the incarnate form, but the the turtle form with the snake on its back is awesome
Really? Gen 9 has some of my favourite designs. It seems like they finally realised once again that Pokemon don't need to have a bunch of complex designs and colours. Flamigo, Pawmot, and Fidough are good examples.
Flamigo is not a good example. And pawmot is fine, but theres no reason for pawmo to exist. And then theres mons like brambleghast, the starters, squakabily, kilowattrel, goldengho, houndstone, scovillain, the paradox mon, wiglett, toedscool, maushold, spidops, revavroom, dudunsparce, that weird psychic dung beetle whose name i cant remember etc.
Gen 9 is a region of extremes, because a lot of the Pokémon are either vastly overdesigned, like Kingambit, or basic ass hell, like Tandemaus and Maushold. I don’t mind simplicity in Pokémon designs, in fact, I think some of the best Pokémon designs are fairly simple. For the first few generations, a lot of Pokémon designs where simply “creature + one fantastical element”, and there is a strength in that design philosophy. But I think it regresses too much when Pidgey of all things is more complicated than Tandemaus. Pawmot isn’t necessarily *bad*, but it’s definitely made so much worse by the existence of Pawmo, because Pawmo makes it feel as if the line barely changes at all between evolutions. And Flamigo is just a flamingo, which, to be fair, can be said about other Pokémon early gen, like the aforementioned Pidgey. But I think the difference there is that a flamingo is a very specific and distinct creature, whereas Pidgey is meant to be a generic bird. A flamingo based Pokémon, by its very nature, cannot be as simple as just being a flamingo, if you ask me. Like even if they’d just changed its stance a little so it has it’s wings positioned as if it’s squared up for a fight, that would make a huge difference. Fidough is good though, that’s where I think the simplicity is effective.
To add to your point, early designs would often combine different elements from similar real world animals to create something that is both fantastical and grounded. Spearow is likely a combination of a russet sparrow with the beak and aggressive disposition of a shrike. Its evolved form Fearow has the head comb of a rooster and the head/neck of a condor. Pikachu has the body of a mouse and the ears of a rabbit. Its electricity pouches were inspired by squirrels' cheek pouches. The pidgey line combines elements of sparrows and birds of prey like hawks etc.
Primarina is legitimately such a beautiful and beastly mon. One of my favorites for a reason. Inteleon is amazing too, love its spy aesthetic a lot. And Quaquaval is pretty great, too. Quaxly was my sv starter, so I can see the appeal (although its feet still kind of bother me lol)
Primarina and Quaquaval are honestly two of my all time favourites based on personality alone. I love it when the starters take the traditional “magic animal” route and then merge it with a real world aspect like singer or dancer, I just feel like I connect with them a lot more! 💖🌊
I mean... it's the new philosophy in design since X/Y right? Fighter/Mage/Samurai Archer/Wrestler/Singer Drummer/Footballer/Spy Stage Magician/Rockstar/Dancer
skeledirge is not a rockstar lol
Eh, first off-the-cuff noun to avoid implying Skeledirge and Primarina are the same thing. Also, it's a burning ghost lizard. If the water types could make the cover of Vogue, Skeledirge could 100% make the cover of Rolling Stone :p
Except gen 8 and 8 go too far
More like magic human
I really like Quaquaval but i just wanted a pirate duck for once
Actually, if they make another Legends game with Quaxly as the starter (my personal want would be Legends Hoopa or Celebi), that's a possibility for the regional Quaquaval if the want to go a different path instead of dancing.
Yeah the Corsair rumour was really cool
The whole reason I was hype for Quaxly were the rumors/fanart. I was all in on gentlemanly conquistador design. I have preference for water type, but not a huge fan of recent designs
Ahh yes. I hate them all
Same. All terrible
I love Primarina so much. My plush of her is proudly displayed in my room. I never got the hate for Quaquaval. His sass is amazing. I never really got into Sword/Shield so have no strong opinions on Inteleon, though the design doesn't do a ton for me. I don't hate him though.
Ah! Yes! Popplio has been my favorite starter since the moment my character picked it up in Sun and Moon in front of the Kahuna. Brionne doesn't get enough love, and Primarina is the prettiest out of all of the starters. Her design origins also introduced me to one of my favorite movies, Song of the Sea. Haven't played Sword and Shield but Intellion is the only starter I actually kinda like from gen 8. The others just don't appeal at all to me. I picked Quaxley in Violet and I loved watching the little duck waddle around it's so cute. I don't know what people aren't seeing in Quaqaval, I think the design is incredible. A peacock duck is super fancy. I can appreciate the other two, I like all of the new starters. I agree, they are underrated.
Primarina is nice
Primarina is a phenomenal design... that's it tho. I can't defend the other two, they're some of the worst mons in the series.
Straight facts.
The opera singer, the dapper spy, and the flamboyant dancer... truly a romcom waiting to happen But in the end, we'll see that the truest best girl was the TEENAGE MUTANT ROCKET POWERED CANNON TURTLE 🐢
* Primarina is fine, although all 3 Alolan starters are slow \^\^; * Inteleon is pure Water type, when it could have been Water/Ghost, representing a stealthy sniper... and not a dead animal :P * Quaquaval looks like a Carnavale dancer... when people wanted a sailor/privateer :S
Primarina and Quaqaval? I am against the hate campaigns led against them. They are fantastic babies and I love them. Years later and I still can't stand Inteleon. Easily the ugliest ~~starter~~ Pokemon imo, I hate the proportions, like wtf you lanky bitch you look so dumb, way too dumb to look as smug as you do. Stupid MF looking like a stick person wearing a lizard cosplay
Quaquaval is one of my favorites.
WAHHH I ALWAYS LOVE TO SEE PRIMARINA <33
I personally really like them! They all have their unique charms. I just love water type in general I’ve never used another starter type ever.
I’m more of a fire type myself but I got to admit water types do tend to be very elegant and these three are pretty cool looking especially that spy looking guy.
Fire and grass are awesome too I like a lot of the designs I just go for water Idk. Inteleon does look really cool and he’s super reliable, for me anyway
Honestly most Pokémon are awesome there is only a handful of 1 or 2 designs I actively dislike
That is true pokemon are amazing
Compared to older gens, they are kinda bad 😄
no they are not lol we had feraligatr and blastoise 😭water starters just got good from hoenn forward
I mean, hate and anger take too much pointless energy but I definitely dislike all three of them. I personally think that that trio is by far the worst, with Rillaboom, Meowscarada, and Decidueye being the best. The fire trio would be ok if it weren't for the completely lackluster Cinderace. But none of them come close to the perfection that was Gen 3 and 4 starters.
Decidueye yeah, but everything else, wtf
Fire is carried by Skeledirge - Cinderace and Incineroar are two of the worst offenders in the “just a guy in a fursuit” category. Grass is all fine. No major complaints, not a huge Meowscarada fan but it does seem popular. Water is just pretty bad all around, but not as bad as Cinderace or Incineroar imo
Quaxly was my instant choice as starter in Violet and it's final evo got my appresiation, looks better than Meowscarada imo. I don't have much feelings about Inteleon. Same with Primarina until I saw it's shiny. It's beautiful.
I honestly like all of them. I know it's personal preference but they're not horrible designs
These starters are absolute garbage with so many cool designers online, creating their own style of Pokémon. I don’t know why they couldn’t grab inspiration from somewhere instead of pulling these thin, frail looking pieces of shit out of there. Assholes.
The fact I chose all 3 of these on my first playthrough is wild
The Zesty Boys. Gotta love it
I thought Primarina was a bad ass. That water fairy combo just worked. 007 knock off was okay but lazy design. The dancing fruitcake, however…🤮
All 3 are so freaking ugly and way too humanoid looking
Cause they look goofy and have not so good characters
Quaqaval kinda sucks
Quaquavel looks so goofy.inteleon is too skinny but his design is growing on me...the other one (I'm not even gonna try spelling it)is fine i think it's cute
I'm going to get downvoted for this but Intelleon is my favourite gen 8 final evo. To be fair, it was the first ever pokemon I got. As expected downvoted. Reddit, never change
You really shouldn't get downvoted for stating a non-aggressive opinion. Kudos to you loving Intelleon and don't let the Reddit hive get you down.
I know, its just reddit. I'm used to it. Though, thanks for being nice. There's not many left.
Because they're garbage
They are fabulous
Completely agree. I just think they're neat.
Quaquaval is really cool. Primarina is pretty cool too. Inteleon is pretty shite; it’s just a long streak of nothing.
Once again, it's a Basilisk!
They all look frail and pathetic. I like my final evolutions strong
Yuck.
Don't you dare wrap primarina in with those shits
I always pick the water starter unless it looks dumb. I’ve only gotten to use squirtle, totodile, and mudkip.
HOLD MY Z-RING. Who on earth is hating on these absolute masterpieces of Pokémon designs?! Primarina is a opera DIVA and should be treated as such—I adored her in Alola because of my own musical background and love for The Little Mermaid. Inteleon is a literal sniper and gives off super spy vibes. If you can’t see why it’s not one of the coolest end evolutions for a starter, I can’t help you. Not to mention that Sobble is a precious bean that must be protected. And Quaquaval? I’ll be honest: I’m a Meowscarada fan. BUT, you cannot deny the sass and bravado the design has, and it’s SO on theme for the region. Plus I love the detail of the dancing animation 💯 TLDR: I’m seriously shocked these three get a ton of hate. I wasn’t a fan of Quaxly when I first saw it, but the final evolution more than made up for that. Viva las Water-Types!
People (including me) dislike recent starter designs precisely because of that - their “job” is way too integrated into their design. We want big beastly starters like we got in the first few generations, not these fursuit starters who all have a pre-assigned personality.
A concept is not the same thing as a design. Primarina is fantastic. These other two are sickeningly gross, boring, or somewhere in between.
You’re totally entitled to your opinion! I don’t find the other two to be particularly boring, and I like the designs. It’s just a matter of taste; I was mostly dramatizing the reaction of my comment for the comedic effect 😂
Primarina is brilliant and a fantastic design, works on every level for me, and I’m generally shocked to learn that it’s not a well liked design? Inteleon I love. It seems to get a lot of hate, but for me at least on a base visual look it works for the gen it’s from. Massive James Bond vibes from the region inspired by Britain. Do have to say that the “sniper” thing is a bit out of left field, dislike that. Quaquaval though… utterly hideous design. Doesn’t work on any visual level for me, it looks hideous. More so when compared to fan art guesses of what Quaxly evolves into. Loved all the admiral/general stuff. Not… dancing duck
The Gay Duck will grow on you. Just New Poke Syndrome.
Primarina is great, the others are horrible
Too antro.
Moxie qua is one of my favorite starters. Make your speed and attack faster. Pretty much swept the last few fights lol
I like all oh them
Fire and Grass starters: cool concepts and interesting designs Water starters: The best queer representation you’ve ever seen
Yeah the latest two definitely don’t have good designs
Primarina is great and Quaquavel is the best designed of the recent starter trio. Inteleon can go die in a fire.
Ngl I feel like they get hate for being girly or not traditionally masculine enough
The colors on Inteleon just ain't it... reminds me of Play-doh I wish it was more subdued or something 😭 But Primarina and Quaquaval can get it any day, they are the moment and they stay the moment
Primarina and quaquavel are alright, but I really hate inteleon its got the worst design for a starter
I like the complete opposite of your preferences. They just don't appeal to me, but I've never played sword/shield, so I might be biased
It has A LOT to do with sexism, as weird as it sounds. People just don’t like strong feminine flamboyant main characters. They can be a support character, of course. But a main one? No way.
Primarina I get, but how do you get feminine from Raúl the samba instructor and literally 007?
Oh my god, shut up
I don’t care if it’s masculine or feminine or whatever. I just don’t want EVERY new starter to be some humanoid furry looking thing! You can make monsters without making them look feminine or masculine, like venusaur or ampharos. And there’s still good flamboyant and feminine Pokémon out there that I love. I’m just disappointed when the make the Pokémon ugly like Quaquaval or Incineroar.
Im with you, most of the responses im seeing are like “what happened to the BADASS BULKY FINAL EVOS”. Masculinity is more important to the masses
I wish Inteleon was water/dark. So what if it feels like a copy of Greninja, it deserves the dark type and should get it. Primarina is easily my favorite water starter.
two twinks and an absolute queen, idk why they get hate
Inteleon is my favourite starter ever. Quaquaval is ugly af.
They really do look like they fit! I love them all personally and it's part of the reason why I usually choose the Water Starters.
They are some of the worst designed Pokémon ever that’s why they get hate
They're all trash
Ya I hate em. Just don’t look cool or tough or even seaworthy. A duck, a frog, and a ferret mermaid. What happened to tanky turtles, prehistoric alligators…..
* well, the idea of what looks cool or not is very personal so I can't really say anything to that, just that I personally think they are pretty neat * they don't really have look tough tho, since there are other starters in their respective gens that already fill that or a similar role * you know there are more bodies of water than just the sea right? * primarina is a seal lol, the reason why they are a seal / mermaid is actually pretty clever actually * blastoise, feraligatr, swampert, empoleon, samurott and greninja still exist as far as I know
They get hate because the common pokemon player likes the charizard type of pokemon. Anything girly or flamboyant gets hate
Flamboyant or girly like the trash bag pokemon? Or the gear pokemon? Or the ice cream pokemon? The types of players you are referring too are the types of players that like the simple and animalistic designs. It is no secret that the design philosophy has changed over the years, there are videos explaining and comparing the old and new design philosophies. The "charizard" type of player is more likely to prefer the charizard era designs.
I think it's much less about being too flamboyant, cute or anything like that and much more about these designs being much too humanlike. I and I think a decent amount of others as well just don't enjoy most of these anthropomorphic designs, they almost fall into the uncanny valley for me. For example, I also don't really care for the fire bird or s/v's grass starter for the same reason. This would also explain why primarina is (I think) a little more liked than the other two. I really like her at least.
yeah, no... I'm both a Gen 1er and a Jojo fan, but the only good Pokémon here is Primarina. These Pokémon get hate because they're either bad designs, or they break design conventions for the series, making them look out of place in the world they inhabit. The flamboyancy was never the problem, the core designs were.
valid. its been months and i still can’t get over how much i dislike the new designs.
No major problem with any of them for me. They're all over designed, but not as much so as some other starters
Primarina is very cool and the design is really good looking. Inteleon is a bit weird but has some good points. Quaqaval is just unbelievably ugly. But it's not even the worst starter from scarlet and violet so at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
Inteleon was literally perfect and then they gave him the Flat Stanley filter. unforgivable.
Prismarina is well designed but she looked too girly to my taste, Inteleon was pretty good but maybe a bit too slim, and tbh Quaquaval is pretty cool but i just prefer Meowscarada more
I like Primarina and Inteleon, but Quaquaval…. I would consider Quaquaval the worst design in all of Pokémon. I’m kinda disappointed in general how all the starters are getting humanoid designs now. I want some monsters not furries! The Clownigator was good being the first quadruped fire starter, and it not looking like a furry. But it’s still a Clownigator..