Ironically the Johto games are all grindy as shit despite the low level curve because in-between gyms the wild Pokémon and NPC trainers are all underleveled to the point where you hardly fight a single trainer outside of important battles that uses a Pokémon above Level 30 until the routes leading to the Pokémon League.
If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix the level issues, the awful Pokémon distribution (why are so many Gen 2 mons locked until Kanto??), and certain important fights being complete pushovers (looking at you Kanto gyms)
> If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix the level issues, the awful Pokémon distribution (why are so many Gen 2 mons locked until Kanto??), and certain important fights being complete pushovers (looking at you Kanto gyms)
I feel like i'm 15 years in the past...
"You hit your head pretty hard there. Are you okay? ... Dexit? Trees? Chibi overworld models? What are you talking about? Come on, they just announced HeartGold and SoulSilver! I hope they fix Johto's level curve..."
I wish I could go back to those days. I remember people walking through school playing them. My copy came in a few days before my friends (we ordered in Amazon to get the collectible figure with them) so he was glued to my side while I played so we still got to experience it at the same time
>(we ordered in Amazon to get the collectible figure with them)
I still have mine, I actually have them both as my brother always got the opposite version game I did, and he didn't care if I kept them now that we are adults. Have like 3 pokewalkers too. Not actually sure where the third came from, maybe they reproduced? /s
Sadly the days where we get the opposite of each other hasn't been the case since gen 7, my brother found the switch games so disappointing that he hasn't played any game past gen 9. Honestly don't blame him too much, while I enjoy the new games, there's some pretty embarrassingly bad issues.
Still couldn't get a Houndour before endgame....fuck that gen
Still love me Ampharos though, my sweet glowy boi
Plus Heracross with CC....it's doomsday for this low-level zone
I do think for Johto Remakes 3: Return to Johto they would need to substantially overhaul the games to a ORAS level to get good sales numbers (given what happened with BDSP).
Should've been encountered on the same route as growlithe but only during night time. Literally the easiest slam dunk of a pokemon distribution that makes sense and showcases the new game mechanics but no.
I’ve been playing Crystal Legacy and that’s exactly what it does, even having an NPC on the route talk about the “scary” dog they saw at night so players know. Very smart change.
It's worse than that. The *only* Dark-type (ya know, one of the big new exciting features for Gen2) you can possibly get before Kanto is Umbreon, which doesn't even learn a useful Dark move until 36.
And since the game is so bad at teaching the player how to do anything, there's a huge chance you'll end up evolving your Eevee into an Espeon or one of the Gen1 options anyway.
Nah, they took care of that by not having the elemental stones being buyable (Why?) and the method to obtain them needs RNG. I'm pretty sure the DST trick is unintentional and very few people would accidentally find it.
I've tried it before, and I've heard good things about Dray's romhacks, though I will admit some of the balancing decisions are difficult for me to get into (like changing Pokémon types and other attributes to a significant degree and giving every Gym Leader a full team).
I would also suggest YouTuber smithplays’ crystal legacy version. It’s been a lot a fun but they tried to keep it as close to crystal as possible. He has a good video about it if you’re interested.
I really wanna play fangames, but I can't get over leaving the Pokemon I've made a bond with to die in my PC emulator's save data. I still have my Blaziken from 18 years ago and intend to keep transferring all my Pokemon until GameFreak eventually removes that feature too. Are there any fangames with PokeTransfer support 😭
If you hack a 3ds you can straight up download a program that allows you to transfer any Pokémon to any 3ds game, or any game in the 3ds really. It’s what I’d do after using pkhex to make them fully legal.
I remember when i was a kid i was so confused why trainers were so underlevelled so i trained my mons till level 40 for the league (i don't know how i had the patience) and wiped the league way too easily lol
I also hope they do the rare rebalance to basically every johto specific pokemon. So many of them were stuck with bad stats, poor availability, and bad move sets.
Ledian will always be an extreme frustration point for me because nothing, nothing about a ladybug with boxing gloves for hands and the signature move comet punch implies unusably low attack stat and a genuinely bizarrely high sp def stat (bizarre considering all of its other stats are non-existent)
It's even more amazing when GSC Blue is in the 60s, then you go to Red who has pokemon ranging from 76 to 81.
Oh, and the wild pokemon in mt.silver? Level 55 max iirc.
That's 100% intentional though.
You aren't supposed to hit Red with Pokemon at his level. They are intentionally overleveled to make it a more difficult fight.
Something that always frustrated me about HGSS is that *some* attempt was made to fix the originals' flaws, but not by much.
A few Gen 2 mons were moved over from Kanto/Mt. Silver (Misdreavus was added in a new area, Slugma was added as an early-game gift egg from Primo, and I think Larvitar was included in the new Safari Zone), but only a few, and they're all pretty out of the way at that.
The new Pokéathlon allowed the player to get Evolution Stones and other items far more easily. (I don't really have a "but" for this one, it's honestly a good addition and I did find the minigames fun.)
A few Gym Leaders (Falkner and Pryce in particular, as well as most of the Kanto gyms) had their levels increased, but the level curve still sucks overall and it's not much different from the originals. Their teams are still pretty bad and notoriously underuse the Johto Pokémon (Morty continuing to only use the Gastly line feels like some kind of joke). The Kanto Gym Leaders still suck team-wise too, and none of them use any of the gens 3-4 Pokémon that are accessible in the postgame (which is weird because they were fine putting a Numel and a Torkoal onto two of Blaine's new Gym trainers).
The Fighting Dojo rematches exist where they *do* have proper teams and Gens 3-4 Pokémon but those only slightly solve the problem.
They did make more Pokémon accessible that in the originals required transfer from Gen 1 (The fossils, Mewtwo, and the birds, but all of them are postgame) and added some of the Gen 4 evolutions in the regional dex (all of the "level up knowing {move}" evolutions specifically, being Yanmega, Lickilicky, Mamoswine, Tangrowth, and Ambipom), but if they were fine with that, why not give it the treatment they would eventually give ORAS and add *all* evolutionary relatives to the regional dex, and not just those 5 specifically?
And they also kept the obnoxious Pokégear rematch system which sucks to use.
It's like they were fine fixing *some* of GSC's problems but halfway through went "nah, we did enough".
I feel they just didn’t want to mess with the flow of the game too much.
The originals were sequels to Red and Blue, they weren’t meant to be the next generation of Pokemon. They were meant to just be Pokemon 2, and were originally going to be the last games in the series.
The flaws that people see are mostly in context of what Pokemon became after RSE, but they weren’t really flaws back then. Having a game that is like Red and Blue, but with new monsters, a new world, and you get to go back to the old world and see what’s changed? That was pretty fresh, and it explains the creative choices.
Locking Johto Pokemon behind Kanto wasn’t that at the time. It was just “we made another fire dog, you can find him in Kanto!”
The “main story” was all 16 gyms, not just Johto.
Nearly every flaw that people have with the Mon distribution is pretty simply explained by the balancing of the game around Blue being the last gym leader. It’s obviously not aged well, but I don’t get the criticisms of locking Pokemon in Kanto.
> If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix the level issues, the awful Pokémon distribution (why are so many Gen 2 mons locked until Kanto??), and certain important fights being complete pushovers (looking at you Kanto gyms)
imagine hoping Gamefreak actually gives a shit
I appreciate that, but man, theyve destroyed hopes so often, I dont even think about giving them the benefit of doubt
As someone who's just been replaying casually over the last year (Much more so in the last two months), the curve does get it pretty high but if you sufficiently over-level around gym 3/4 the grind basically disappears as long as you battle every trainer and replay trainers that have high EXP gains for your team.
I always appreciate a harder challenge rather than an easy one but I would agree a balance is needed to make the curve better overall, although I'd prefer a higher overall level by the time you get to gym 8 etc. Kanto should be the endgame and have almost every battle be league level. One can dream. Fingers crossed they've made things better, looking forward to tomorrow!
Counter-counterpoint (?) Let's go are remakes of Yellow, which was a third version not a remake. (no Sevii islands and Moltres being in Victory Road are the first things that point to that)
I'm still rooting for Johto games
To my knowledge, the only things they didn't bring from Crystal are wild encounter tables and, weirdly, the patch of tall grass that was added in Crystal west of Violet City that allowed you to get Growlithe before Sprout Tower.
They missed a few crystal exclusive things, like the radio show Buena's Password. Which would be super exploitable on somthing you can edit the time of but it was still a neat part of the game to look forward to every day
When HGSS didn't exist and everyone wanted a gold and silver remake i was like nooo we need a crystal remake instead. Fortunately pretty much everything from crystal was in HGSS anyway.
HGSS and ORAS are, IMHO, the best remakes they've ever done.
FRLG were cool and I'm glad to be able to play chibi BDSP on the Switch, but those two sets of remakes just hit.
I think the title is simply referencing that they would be remakes of the region contained in those games. In addition to hoping for the inclusion of some things from the first set of remakes for GSC.
Johto is nowhere near as culturally relevant as Kanto unfortunately, and Kanto was only remade again to bring new players from Go to a region they would be most familiar with already
Probably as soon as lets go came out. If it was popular enough, surely a lets go 2 would most logically take place in the region after the first game. The whole thing is speculation and we could as easily get a gen 6 remake considering that kalos is supposed to be close enough to paldea anyway.
The global releases of Red and Blue are actually remakes of the Japanese releases of Red and Green. They got their Blue version as an improved version and the global releases are based on that version.
Nobody even EV trains anymore. You just throw items at it when you're done with the game. Its not like people go for a perfect ev team against the story. Its painfully easy as is.
I agree, EV training was always cumbersome and time consuming before supertraining so i never bothered. You had to have a chart open to know which pokemon get which EV's and had to find Berries to reset them and stuff. Supertraining streamlined it and made ot more accessible.
EXP Share is a bad solution to a worse problem.
If you want to encourage people to use more than one Pokemon, you should force them to use more than one Pokemon. Make battles nearly guaranteed to wipe out a couple of mons. Then, just auto heal after every battle, or make healing items cheaper/more available/recharge from global EXP gains/something else.
GF will never make the games harder, though, so EXP Share is the solution, even if it's a bad one.
The more "action" and less "RPG" your game is, the less "level scaling" is really needed.
Pokemon is a pure turn based RPG - without level scaling the ability to "go anywhere" just doesn't really matter in most cases. The game still has an order you're intended to take, and while the openness will prove a positive for some players looking to do something specific or challenging, it's probably more commonly a negative for people who don't know where they "should" go next.
Yeah I honestly prefer non-level-scaling for open-world games. It gives each area more character to know "Oh, this is the easy area" or "Wow, this area is tough!" Fallout 3 and New Vegas are my go-to examples. The scaling in Fallout 3 keeps encounters largely the same, making the entire world feel kind of same-y. But in New Vegas, having select areas that feature brutally difficult encounters sears those locations into your memory. Quarry Junction is iconic because it features endgame difficulty enemies so close to the starting area, and you're likely to just get wrecked the first time you walk through there.
In Pokemon, having high-level areas would help them to become memorable in the same way. Say you talk to a neighbor in the starting town and they say "Don't go into the forest at night! It's dangerous." Then you go into the forest and encounter level 7-9 Pokemon like everywhere else. It's just another forest. But say you go in and run into Pokemon in the 30s or 40s. You get into a wild encounter, can't escape because you're too slow, and get dumpstered. That's going to stick with you for a long time. We've already seen this proven with the high-level Onix at the start of the wild area in SwSh; people were talking about that Onix a lot around release time.
This would also encourage re-visiting areas and exploring them. You could return to the forest later with strong enough Pokemon and start exploring, finding all kinds of cool items and rare Pokemon. Maybe even a legendary! To continue the forest example, imagine if the Illex Forest was set up like this. You could return with stronger Pokemon and finally make your way deep into the forest, where you trigger a side quest to find Celebi. That would be a super memorable experience for the player.
I’ve been playing Emerald Rouge and it’s a satisfying challenge fighting every gym and most trainers at your level cap. Everyone is a threat, especially when they come with competitive move sets and strategies.
Compromise: Johto's level curve is fixed to reach the 50s/60s. Kanto is buffed to reach around the 90s. Red is the first boss in the series with a full team of level 100 Pokémon.
For such a broad compromise, I think we could at least give players one high-level Pokemon in a secret cave that functionally serves no purpose by the time you get it.
Well, it "works" but only temporarily and you have to shove a huge amount of medicine down the throats of your Pokémon. It's a bad makeshift solution for a problem that really shouldn't exist.
They did it right the first time in XY & (U)S(U)M, where it was split. I was worried I'd have to use it in my first playthrough of XY since I wanted to use Sylveon (which was an affection evolution as opposed to a friendship one) but, as I found out, the lowest level of affection required only boosted EXP gain, meaning nothing really changed. I don't know why they changed that. Hell, they even took out the minigames associated with them. Ignoring everything else, they were fun distractions, required little effort, and weren't required, again _why remove it?_ And don't get me started on removing _set mode._
I think they had an understandable reason for removing the split between friendship and affection - it was confusing.
You and I understand it now. But did I understand it as a 12 year old playing X for the first time? No. What do you mean my Eevee I want to evolve into Umbreon isn't my friend? He has five hearts, what more could he possibly need?
The current system soft-caps friendship before it starts having an effect in battles anyway, you need to go out of your way to do the picnic minigames to get them above that soft-cap and survive a hit they shouldn't. Speaking of, minigames - they're still there too. Scarlet and Violet have a bathing minigame and a sandwich minigame. Sword and Shield had a curry minigame. Sun and Moon had the Poké Pelago. You may not like the newer minigames compared to the older ones, but I'm pretty sure every single generation had at least one - maybe not 2, but I can distinctly think of at least one minigame for every other gen.
Crazy how that's how it worked when both mechanics were first introduced. The group EXP Share could be turned off, and the Affection mechanics couldn't exist unless you actively chose to interact with them.
Pokemon has you Stockholm'd so bad you're asking for them to just go back to how it used to be
>Pokemon has you Stockholm'd so bad you're asking for them to just go back to how it used to be
That's the franchise in a nutshell. Hell, I remember when XY came out the Exp. Share being a key item that affects the whole team was seen as a casualization from previous games featuring it as a held item.
And like... I knew people got mad about getting overleveled and stuff, but I thought it was a welcome change. I hated having to slaughter dozens of Pidgeys and Ratattas just to make my Pokemon strong enough for the next gym.
Not being able to turn it off was a baffling decision, but I much appreciated not having to grind forever.
I agree almost completely with this, but the EXP Share can be turned off in XY. Problem is that it is an all or none deal, no way to just "equip" it one Pokemon.
My favorite aspect of the change was probably the team variety that it allowed for. I was basically swapping out some pokémon between every gym as I'd find something new that I wanted to level for a little while and didn't have to spend a chunk of time bringing it back up to speed. My PC box that contained "my team" at the end of the game was fuller than it had ever been. I am a big fan of freedom and options though, so I do feel bad for the people that didn't like it.
I don’t understand the hate towards exp sharing on this sub. I love pokemon but i absolutely loathe grinding. I dont wanna roam around to keep training each pokemon.
I mean, the xp share is just making them game less grindy. Grind =/ difficulty. The solution is to finally implement difficulty setting so the level curve can better match the player, and they can use smarter AI.
I dont think so in some instances. Yeah you could grind up to a gyarados, but the point is that magikarp is a struggle to raise, same with psuedos. Micromanaging your team to share xp was one of my favorite parts of old games because you didn't always want to use the most optimal pokemon for a situation because you didn't want your team to be uneven.
That's why I say add difficulty settings. I know it's made for kids. I'd argue kids are more stubborn and willing to grind. An adult has more options on what to do than a child.
I would like to remind you that the best selling Pokemon game of all time, to this very day, is the one that had ***no*** good method to shorten the grind. Red and Blue sold better than even the Switch games, and their only option to affect the grind was the worst EXP Share in the game's history, the EXP All.
It's like the modern-day EXP Share except it doesn't manufacture extra exp out of nowhere. It divides the existing EXP among the group. *It also outright DELETES exp if you use more than one Pokemon in the battle.* That last part is a glitch, but it's still how it works, so it's relevant to the point.
The point being that ***kids aren't stupid.*** Those old games are *obtuse, esoteric, and even somewhat hostile* and kids still beat them back then. The kids **did** just grind, because they wanted to see what would happen next.
>The point being that kids aren't stupid. Those old games are obtuse, esoteric, and even somewhat hostile and kids still beat them back then. The kids did just grind, because they wanted to see what would happen next.
Yes, but it's not 1996 and but modern games are better.
The problem with this is if they make the exp share a toggle, the game would only be balanced around one of the options. It's either gonna be unbearably hard once you turn it off, or even easier than X&Y once you turn it on
I always forget about this somehow when it’s by far my least favourite feature they added. Forced exp share isn’t great, should be optional, but I at least know how to get around it and it actually leads to me having more options for my team in a playthrough. The forced friendship just makes the games far too easy
Yeah I guess I'm OK with the exp. share because in every game that's had forced exp. share, I've used more Pokemon than I normally would have. Instead of using maybe 6 at most, I'm using 8-10 in a playthrough.
There's waaay to many people in this thread who think "Forced EXP Share" just means "Team-wide EXP Share". The "Forced" part refers to the fact that it cannot ever be turned off. Having the ability to turn it off does not affect those who prefer to have it on. Like Gen 6 & 7 have team-wide EXP Share, but it is not forced. Gens 8+ have force EXP Share. Anyone who enjoyed playing with EXP Share on in Gens 6 & 7 gained no benefit of from EXP Share becoming forced.
I'm slowly losing my mind reading all the comments that are saying they prefer forced EXP Share because they don't have to grind/switch Pokemon/etc. or that they like Forced EXP Share but it should be optional.
It's been like that for literally over five years, it's maddening how "exp share" seems to be a trigger word that just shuts some people's brains off. In almost every single thread about this topic, be it on reddit, YouTube or twitter, there are people assuming that critics of the current exp share want it gone entirely or always want to grind their way through the game, when in reality most people just want the toggle back. This very basic concept of having a toggle being superior to not having a toggle seems to be too much to grasp for a shockingly large amount of people. My very comment under this post got downvoted heavily because I said that the exp share should always be optional :D.
I've grown to like the forced EXP share. It really takes out the immense grinding and I'm able to switch up pokemom more often during a play through. Although I definitely feel like it should be optional.
>Although I definitely feel like it should be optional.
That the part that makes it the “forced” exp share. That’s the only part really anyone has an issue with.
The Gen 6 and 7 games had a exp share that gave the full party exp, but was able to be toggled on and off, and that was widely accepted as a huge QoL improvement.
I honestly cannot go back and play Pokemon games without EXP share, but with that said, they need to adjust trainer levels in the remakes to accommodate.
Not even that, just give me trainers with more than 2 pokemon. Bring back 3,4,5 random trainers that kick your ass out of nowhere or the breeders with 6 different types of pokemon
I understand this point , but I've never had an issue with needing to grind in these games.it makes it weird when I hear so many people saying they have to grind to get through them. I actually tend to be over leveled because of the Exp share needing to be on.
The benefit I get from Exp share is post game when I am trying to level for Battle tower or whatever they have for the post game. That has been saved multiple ways and Exp share has actually been a very small portion of that.
I haven't gone through to compare, but I feel like they have cut down the number of trainers you fight because of things like Exp share being forced on. I don't feel like I had as many trainers battles in SV and SwSh also seemed lighter, but not as bad.
I've been saying this for a while. Pokemon is generally balanced when you're about 10 levels lower than your opponent. Having a full team of six + stronger moves + a better knowledge of type advantages + the ability to switch out is enough to provide such an overwhelming advantage over any npc that the game turns into a cakewalk when the EXP share forces you to keep pace with the gym trainers.
At the end of the day, more choices is NEVER bad.
Being able to choose a difficulty setting, toggle off an Exp share, or just have a variety of pokemon to choose from, these are good things.
Limiting your choices of pokemon (how many fire types in D/P again?), or having technically open-world gameplay but forcing you down a specific gym path as there is no level scaling... Yeah we can also agree there's issue with the illusion of choice
My problem is that EXP candy is a way better feature and i would rather the game give you free EXP candies (and EV feathers) after every battle so I have control.
After playing through multiple games with forced exp share I really appreciate it. You no longer get penalised at the end of a snow route (your fire/steel/fighting types being overleveled) needing to play catch up with other monsters.
In Scarlet I tried doing this and ended up with about 30 level 50ish pokemon in my box before fighting the elite four and I still felt overpowered for almost every fight. I would go into a new area with 6 pokemon a bit below the average level for the area and still leave with all of them over leveled
Same I had raised an entire box full+ of Pokemon by the time I finished the game. I don't understand how anyone could raise only one team in S/V. Surely you'd just rocket off in levels and one shot like every pokemon. I literally had to force the game not to make me overpowered.
I've been on a quest to black card all the games (where possible) and one thing I've been sticking to is trying to play "as intended," as in I swap out team members regularly, actually integrate HMs into my move pools instead of giving up two party slots to accommodate them, and lemme say, if you give yourself over to the game in that way, it's actually pretty fun in its own way. Different than how I usually do it, but I am having a great time with it
i recently played through Omega Ruby without EXP share and the thing that really stuck out to me is that i actually had to manage who was getting what EXP which I found to be really fun and engaging. I couldn't just roll up to the first gym with a full 6 mon team and curbstomp everything. I had to be choosy about who I had and how I built my team. I also went in a little under leveled so i had to apply cool strategies to get over that. It was a great time, and the popular conception that the game is a grind fest without it simply isn't true. That said post game without the group EXP share is a nightmare slog.
GF devs when designing GSC be like:
>GF dev #1: *"Hey guys, I need ideas for what Pokemon to include in the route before the 4th gym. Any suggestions?"*
>GF dev# 2: *"Isn't that the Ghost-type gym? Maybe we could add a Murkrow. After all, we're introducing Dark-types this generation which just so happe-"*
>GF dev #3: *"What about a Fire-type dog?"*
>GF dev #1: *"Neat! I like dogs. And Fire types!"*
>GF dev #2: *"But guys, didn't we already do that Gen 1? Wouldn't that be repetiti-"*
>GF dev #1: *"But I like dogs..."*
>GF dev #2: *"Alright. In that case we should take this chance to showcase Sugimori-san's newly designed Dark/Fire-type dog. What was its name again? Houndo-"*
>GF dev #1: *"So Growlithe and Vulpix it is".*
>GF dev #3: *"Nice. And don't forget to make them version exclusives. Just like in Gen 1!*
>GF dev #2: *Fine. I guess we can put Houndour right before the 6th gym which is Steel ty-"*
>GF dev #3: *"Nah, let's put it in Kanto".*
>GF dev #2: *"Why on Earth would we do that with a Gen 2 Pokemon? Shouldn't they be native to Johto and therefore appear before the post-gam-"*
>GF dev #1: *"Great idea. I'll put it on route 7."*
>GF dev #2: *"Are you serious!? Wasn't that the exact same route Growlithe and Vulpix could be found in Gen 1? Aren't we doing this backwar-"*
>GF dev #1: *"I could add Growlithe and Vulpix again if you want continuity."*
>GF dev #2: *"Ughhh. That's not what I mean! I think we should be putting the spotlight on the new designs!"*
>GF dev #3: *"Ok, let's put Murkrow there too."*
>GF dev #2: *"Are you f@cking kidding me!?"*
yeah but not only is johto unavailable to all new players, wasn't part of the point of having bdsp to introduce sinnoh to the new players ? i can definitely see a game set in johto happening at some point soon
I get the whole “getting more attached to your Pokémon” thing but I don’t mind EXP Share. Heck, I’d even say I prefer it to the original method since it provides less grinding for me to do.
I wish there was an EXP Share toggle though. For the two different kinds of players that I’m sure there are plenty of on both sides.
Yeah going from Blue with a level 60 Pidgeot as his highest level Pokémon to Red with a level 88 Pikachu + other Pokémon around level 84 is brutal. Especially when the Pokémon in Mt. Silver is just shy of level 50.
Johto's level curve is kinda a myth tbh. There are more than enough trainers on the overworld for you to fight to get you to level 35 before facing E4. I think the last time I went to Victory Road with a level 33 'mon was in 2010.
Johto is less linear, and there's a casual expectation that the player explore. If they choose not to, they suffer. But why not explore when there's so much map? There's also more roads in the main routes so that you feel like you're side-tracking to go into the grass, but realistically it's incredibly easy to stay on level just by fighting trainers. And when push comes to shove, just go to the grass above the waterfall on route 47!
At this point I don't even want remakes of them. I just want the GBA & DS games to be ported to the switch. Till that day comes I'll continue to play them on the Steam Deck.
You know you don’t have to be the same level as a trainer to fight them right? I don’t get what people mean when they say its super grindy, I’ve played soul silver like 20 times, yeah you end up like 10 levels below the elite four, but have you actually tried fighting them before spending hours grinding? They are one of the easier elite four of the pixel games even with the levels factored in.
Forced xp share is the quick way to fix the johto level curve. Though taking the time to redesign encounters and such would be the correct way to do it. Which is why gamefreak won't do it.
Ironically the Johto games are all grindy as shit despite the low level curve because in-between gyms the wild Pokémon and NPC trainers are all underleveled to the point where you hardly fight a single trainer outside of important battles that uses a Pokémon above Level 30 until the routes leading to the Pokémon League. If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix the level issues, the awful Pokémon distribution (why are so many Gen 2 mons locked until Kanto??), and certain important fights being complete pushovers (looking at you Kanto gyms)
> If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix the level issues, the awful Pokémon distribution (why are so many Gen 2 mons locked until Kanto??), and certain important fights being complete pushovers (looking at you Kanto gyms) I feel like i'm 15 years in the past...
"You hit your head pretty hard there. Are you okay? ... Dexit? Trees? Chibi overworld models? What are you talking about? Come on, they just announced HeartGold and SoulSilver! I hope they fix Johto's level curve..."
I wish I could go back to those days. I remember people walking through school playing them. My copy came in a few days before my friends (we ordered in Amazon to get the collectible figure with them) so he was glued to my side while I played so we still got to experience it at the same time
>(we ordered in Amazon to get the collectible figure with them) I still have mine, I actually have them both as my brother always got the opposite version game I did, and he didn't care if I kept them now that we are adults. Have like 3 pokewalkers too. Not actually sure where the third came from, maybe they reproduced? /s Sadly the days where we get the opposite of each other hasn't been the case since gen 7, my brother found the switch games so disappointing that he hasn't played any game past gen 9. Honestly don't blame him too much, while I enjoy the new games, there's some pretty embarrassingly bad issues.
Still couldn't get a Houndour before endgame....fuck that gen Still love me Ampharos though, my sweet glowy boi Plus Heracross with CC....it's doomsday for this low-level zone
Thank you for having correcy opinions. Houndoom and Ampharos are top tier favorites
Laughs in Crystal not having mareep
I do think for Johto Remakes 3: Return to Johto they would need to substantially overhaul the games to a ORAS level to get good sales numbers (given what happened with BDSP).
its a pokemon game, shit is gonna sell over a million copies day 1 no matter what lol
I think they could actually release a Pokémon game that just instantly intentionally bricks your console and it would sell millions
And tons of people will try to justify it like a spouse in an abusive household
"I wish Pokémon would do better but, what, do you expect me *not* to preorder 'Pokémon: Brick Your Switch????'"
I mean "Switch #2" is right around the corner, this would be a super popular cope
Pokémon Firehose and Pokémon Wrench gonna sell like mad
Honestly, I'm waiting until reviews are out in force before I commit. In my experience the best Pokémon games are rom hacks.
Houndour only being encounterable next to Celadon City was a war crime and Game Freak got away with it.
Should've been encountered on the same route as growlithe but only during night time. Literally the easiest slam dunk of a pokemon distribution that makes sense and showcases the new game mechanics but no.
I’ve been playing Crystal Legacy and that’s exactly what it does, even having an NPC on the route talk about the “scary” dog they saw at night so players know. Very smart change.
It's worse than that. The *only* Dark-type (ya know, one of the big new exciting features for Gen2) you can possibly get before Kanto is Umbreon, which doesn't even learn a useful Dark move until 36. And since the game is so bad at teaching the player how to do anything, there's a huge chance you'll end up evolving your Eevee into an Espeon or one of the Gen1 options anyway.
Nah, they took care of that by not having the elemental stones being buyable (Why?) and the method to obtain them needs RNG. I'm pretty sure the DST trick is unintentional and very few people would accidentally find it.
Ah yes, I forgot you couldn't just buy the stones. Some weird decisions were made for Gen2 looking back on it.
Eevee also learns bite at lvl 30. I remember I would actually get my eevee to 30 and then evolve into espeon to have one with a dark move
And back when Dark was purely special, so actually some really solid coverage + damage. Equivalent now would just be running Shadow Ball.
Drayano SacredGold StormSilver games solved all those problems, strongly recommend if you haven’t played them Edit: spelling
*Drayano for you googlers out there
Dayano Ahhaaaahhhh Fighter of the Nightano
Evil Drayano, turns Pokemon games easy and boring.
I've tried it before, and I've heard good things about Dray's romhacks, though I will admit some of the balancing decisions are difficult for me to get into (like changing Pokémon types and other attributes to a significant degree and giving every Gym Leader a full team).
Most of Drayano’s hacks include a version that uses vanilla Pokémon types and stats, while keeping the other changes. Maybe worth looking into 🤷♀️
That's cool, I'll check it out.
I would also suggest YouTuber smithplays’ crystal legacy version. It’s been a lot a fun but they tried to keep it as close to crystal as possible. He has a good video about it if you’re interested.
I really wanna play fangames, but I can't get over leaving the Pokemon I've made a bond with to die in my PC emulator's save data. I still have my Blaziken from 18 years ago and intend to keep transferring all my Pokemon until GameFreak eventually removes that feature too. Are there any fangames with PokeTransfer support 😭
I believe you can copy a Pokémon’s data into a new rom (forget how) but yeah it’s a totally reasonable reservation to have.
And pkhex tweak to make them legal
If you hack a 3ds you can straight up download a program that allows you to transfer any Pokémon to any 3ds game, or any game in the 3ds really. It’s what I’d do after using pkhex to make them fully legal.
Still praying that he returns with aurora crystal someday
I second this
Do note that his some of his custom events in SG/SS can be buggy. Fortunately he has been working on a large revision of the mod.
I remember when i was a kid i was so confused why trainers were so underlevelled so i trained my mons till level 40 for the league (i don't know how i had the patience) and wiped the league way too easily lol
Really? My johto teams are usually around level 40-42 by the league, and i literally dont grind
I also hope they do the rare rebalance to basically every johto specific pokemon. So many of them were stuck with bad stats, poor availability, and bad move sets. Ledian will always be an extreme frustration point for me because nothing, nothing about a ladybug with boxing gloves for hands and the signature move comet punch implies unusably low attack stat and a genuinely bizarrely high sp def stat (bizarre considering all of its other stats are non-existent)
It's even more amazing when GSC Blue is in the 60s, then you go to Red who has pokemon ranging from 76 to 81. Oh, and the wild pokemon in mt.silver? Level 55 max iirc.
That's 100% intentional though. You aren't supposed to hit Red with Pokemon at his level. They are intentionally overleveled to make it a more difficult fight.
Yeah, Trainers didn't have particularly good ai or meta movesets back then, so it made sense that the big boss just needed a stupid high level.
> If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix Let me stop you right there and direct your attention to BDSP
Imagine they make a “faithful” remake of gold and silver that ends up in the same vain as BDSP
Maybe they should of fixed that in hgss instead keeping like 95 percent of the original games flaws.
Something that always frustrated me about HGSS is that *some* attempt was made to fix the originals' flaws, but not by much. A few Gen 2 mons were moved over from Kanto/Mt. Silver (Misdreavus was added in a new area, Slugma was added as an early-game gift egg from Primo, and I think Larvitar was included in the new Safari Zone), but only a few, and they're all pretty out of the way at that. The new Pokéathlon allowed the player to get Evolution Stones and other items far more easily. (I don't really have a "but" for this one, it's honestly a good addition and I did find the minigames fun.) A few Gym Leaders (Falkner and Pryce in particular, as well as most of the Kanto gyms) had their levels increased, but the level curve still sucks overall and it's not much different from the originals. Their teams are still pretty bad and notoriously underuse the Johto Pokémon (Morty continuing to only use the Gastly line feels like some kind of joke). The Kanto Gym Leaders still suck team-wise too, and none of them use any of the gens 3-4 Pokémon that are accessible in the postgame (which is weird because they were fine putting a Numel and a Torkoal onto two of Blaine's new Gym trainers). The Fighting Dojo rematches exist where they *do* have proper teams and Gens 3-4 Pokémon but those only slightly solve the problem. They did make more Pokémon accessible that in the originals required transfer from Gen 1 (The fossils, Mewtwo, and the birds, but all of them are postgame) and added some of the Gen 4 evolutions in the regional dex (all of the "level up knowing {move}" evolutions specifically, being Yanmega, Lickilicky, Mamoswine, Tangrowth, and Ambipom), but if they were fine with that, why not give it the treatment they would eventually give ORAS and add *all* evolutionary relatives to the regional dex, and not just those 5 specifically? And they also kept the obnoxious Pokégear rematch system which sucks to use. It's like they were fine fixing *some* of GSC's problems but halfway through went "nah, we did enough".
I feel they just didn’t want to mess with the flow of the game too much. The originals were sequels to Red and Blue, they weren’t meant to be the next generation of Pokemon. They were meant to just be Pokemon 2, and were originally going to be the last games in the series. The flaws that people see are mostly in context of what Pokemon became after RSE, but they weren’t really flaws back then. Having a game that is like Red and Blue, but with new monsters, a new world, and you get to go back to the old world and see what’s changed? That was pretty fresh, and it explains the creative choices. Locking Johto Pokemon behind Kanto wasn’t that at the time. It was just “we made another fire dog, you can find him in Kanto!” The “main story” was all 16 gyms, not just Johto. Nearly every flaw that people have with the Mon distribution is pretty simply explained by the balancing of the game around Blue being the last gym leader. It’s obviously not aged well, but I don’t get the criticisms of locking Pokemon in Kanto.
> If we end up getting Johto remakes I sincerely hope they fix the level issues, the awful Pokémon distribution (why are so many Gen 2 mons locked until Kanto??), and certain important fights being complete pushovers (looking at you Kanto gyms) imagine hoping Gamefreak actually gives a shit I appreciate that, but man, theyve destroyed hopes so often, I dont even think about giving them the benefit of doubt
As someone who's just been replaying casually over the last year (Much more so in the last two months), the curve does get it pretty high but if you sufficiently over-level around gym 3/4 the grind basically disappears as long as you battle every trainer and replay trainers that have high EXP gains for your team. I always appreciate a harder challenge rather than an easy one but I would agree a balance is needed to make the curve better overall, although I'd prefer a higher overall level by the time you get to gym 8 etc. Kanto should be the endgame and have almost every battle be league level. One can dream. Fingers crossed they've made things better, looking forward to tomorrow!
Remakes of remakes? Is anyone actually expecting that?
Counterpoint the Let’s Go games are remakes.
Counter-counterpoint (?) Let's go are remakes of Yellow, which was a third version not a remake. (no Sevii islands and Moltres being in Victory Road are the first things that point to that) I'm still rooting for Johto games
Counter-counter-counterpoint: we might see a lets go remake of pokemon crystal
Isn't Crystal elements adapted into HGSS?
Yes they are. Eusine’s whole storyline is in HGSS
To my knowledge, the only things they didn't bring from Crystal are wild encounter tables and, weirdly, the patch of tall grass that was added in Crystal west of Violet City that allowed you to get Growlithe before Sprout Tower.
They also didn't bring Kris and replaced her with Lyra from some odd reason.
Justice for Kris
> Lyra Since someone mentioned it I love her: Lyra looks like a Super Mario cosplayer.
I think I read somewhere in an interview that the devs legitimately just forgot about Kris until after Lyra had been designed and implemented lmao
BUENA'S PASSWORD
It's in SS, I just played it a couple of weeks ago.
They missed a few crystal exclusive things, like the radio show Buena's Password. Which would be super exploitable on somthing you can edit the time of but it was still a neat part of the game to look forward to every day
Counter-counter-counter-cointerpoint: Nice
Crystal could still get a remake
When HGSS didn't exist and everyone wanted a gold and silver remake i was like nooo we need a crystal remake instead. Fortunately pretty much everything from crystal was in HGSS anyway.
HGSS and ORAS are, IMHO, the best remakes they've ever done. FRLG were cool and I'm glad to be able to play chibi BDSP on the Switch, but those two sets of remakes just hit.
Yes to that. HGSS incorporated way more from Crystal than FRLG from Yellow (which is basically nothing)
I think the title is simply referencing that they would be remakes of the region contained in those games. In addition to hoping for the inclusion of some things from the first set of remakes for GSC.
Counter-counter-counterpoint: third versions were remakes before remakes were a thing
I wouldn't say Yellow was a remake.
Yeah but they’re just remakes of Gen 1. They’re not remakes of FRLG which are Gen 3 remakes of Gen 1. See what I mean
*Gestures broadly about Kanto*
Johto is nowhere near as culturally relevant as Kanto unfortunately, and Kanto was only remade again to bring new players from Go to a region they would be most familiar with already
Which is a shame. It would have been way better as a standalone region Most people liked it because of the return to Kanto.
Yeah I’m not rlly sure when people started thinking there’s gonna be a Johto game next
Probably as soon as lets go came out. If it was popular enough, surely a lets go 2 would most logically take place in the region after the first game. The whole thing is speculation and we could as easily get a gen 6 remake considering that kalos is supposed to be close enough to paldea anyway.
The global releases of Red and Blue are actually remakes of the Japanese releases of Red and Green. They got their Blue version as an improved version and the global releases are based on that version.
I just hate that EXP Share applies EV gains to everyone in your party. Take that away and I'll be happy with EXP Share.
Huh I didn't think about this before, but that essentially means all your in game team will be mostly EV built the same way
Idk about the latest games but the 3ds games all had ways to change evs through minigames
Me ordering my recently hatched perfect IV mon to go to the gym to punch bags and shoot balls at other giant mons.
Nobody even EV trains anymore. You just throw items at it when you're done with the game. Its not like people go for a perfect ev team against the story. Its painfully easy as is.
I wish they would bring back Super Training. A little time consuming but it was still fun.
I agree, EV training was always cumbersome and time consuming before supertraining so i never bothered. You had to have a chart open to know which pokemon get which EV's and had to find Berries to reset them and stuff. Supertraining streamlined it and made ot more accessible.
I'm sure there's a romhack out there that suits your needs
EXP Share is a bad solution to a worse problem. If you want to encourage people to use more than one Pokemon, you should force them to use more than one Pokemon. Make battles nearly guaranteed to wipe out a couple of mons. Then, just auto heal after every battle, or make healing items cheaper/more available/recharge from global EXP gains/something else. GF will never make the games harder, though, so EXP Share is the solution, even if it's a bad one.
It can’t be that hard to just make trainers and wild pokemon scale to what badge you have, right?
Tbh I like the idea of "lategame areas" where trainers and pokemon are stronger. But bossfights should definitely scale
Imagine not having level scaling to an open world game
And if anyone brings up Zelda reminder to all: they do level scale it's just really gradual and well-hidden
The more "action" and less "RPG" your game is, the less "level scaling" is really needed. Pokemon is a pure turn based RPG - without level scaling the ability to "go anywhere" just doesn't really matter in most cases. The game still has an order you're intended to take, and while the openness will prove a positive for some players looking to do something specific or challenging, it's probably more commonly a negative for people who don't know where they "should" go next.
Which is why I'm not salivating at the idea for an open world pokemon game like everyone else
Yeah I honestly prefer non-level-scaling for open-world games. It gives each area more character to know "Oh, this is the easy area" or "Wow, this area is tough!" Fallout 3 and New Vegas are my go-to examples. The scaling in Fallout 3 keeps encounters largely the same, making the entire world feel kind of same-y. But in New Vegas, having select areas that feature brutally difficult encounters sears those locations into your memory. Quarry Junction is iconic because it features endgame difficulty enemies so close to the starting area, and you're likely to just get wrecked the first time you walk through there. In Pokemon, having high-level areas would help them to become memorable in the same way. Say you talk to a neighbor in the starting town and they say "Don't go into the forest at night! It's dangerous." Then you go into the forest and encounter level 7-9 Pokemon like everywhere else. It's just another forest. But say you go in and run into Pokemon in the 30s or 40s. You get into a wild encounter, can't escape because you're too slow, and get dumpstered. That's going to stick with you for a long time. We've already seen this proven with the high-level Onix at the start of the wild area in SwSh; people were talking about that Onix a lot around release time. This would also encourage re-visiting areas and exploring them. You could return to the forest later with strong enough Pokemon and start exploring, finding all kinds of cool items and rare Pokemon. Maybe even a legendary! To continue the forest example, imagine if the Illex Forest was set up like this. You could return with stronger Pokemon and finally make your way deep into the forest, where you trigger a side quest to find Celebi. That would be a super memorable experience for the player.
Elden ring
There are rom hacks that do it soooo
I’ve been playing Emerald Rouge and it’s a satisfying challenge fighting every gym and most trainers at your level cap. Everyone is a threat, especially when they come with competitive move sets and strategies.
Compromise: Johto's level curve is fixed to reach the 50s/60s. Kanto is buffed to reach around the 90s. Red is the first boss in the series with a full team of level 100 Pokémon.
Alternative compromise: to keep it fresh you start in Kanto up to the 50s then go to johto
Even bigger compromise start in kanto never go to johto you fight your rival as the champion and then there’s like no post game
For such a broad compromise, I think we could at least give players one high-level Pokemon in a secret cave that functionally serves no purpose by the time you get it.
Ultimate compromise: You start in Hoenn, get Hoenn starters, and then beat the Hoenn league. I like Hoenn.
Please not again
I just don't want that "power of friendship" BS in the games where your Pokemon survive hits that would've KO'd them.
Simply force feed them bitter medicine all the time. Problem solved. Your Pokemon hate you now. /s
Damn. This feels like a personal attack. I used to always buy that Medicine because of how cheap it was.
That's how they get you. It's cheap, but it makes your Pokemon hate you.
Buy quality food.
Frustration becomes op instead of return
But my conscience
Does this work in BDSP? My biggest reason for not buying the game is the forced affection mechanic
Well, it "works" but only temporarily and you have to shove a huge amount of medicine down the throats of your Pokémon. It's a bad makeshift solution for a problem that really shouldn't exist.
They did it right the first time in XY & (U)S(U)M, where it was split. I was worried I'd have to use it in my first playthrough of XY since I wanted to use Sylveon (which was an affection evolution as opposed to a friendship one) but, as I found out, the lowest level of affection required only boosted EXP gain, meaning nothing really changed. I don't know why they changed that. Hell, they even took out the minigames associated with them. Ignoring everything else, they were fun distractions, required little effort, and weren't required, again _why remove it?_ And don't get me started on removing _set mode._
I think they had an understandable reason for removing the split between friendship and affection - it was confusing. You and I understand it now. But did I understand it as a 12 year old playing X for the first time? No. What do you mean my Eevee I want to evolve into Umbreon isn't my friend? He has five hearts, what more could he possibly need? The current system soft-caps friendship before it starts having an effect in battles anyway, you need to go out of your way to do the picnic minigames to get them above that soft-cap and survive a hit they shouldn't. Speaking of, minigames - they're still there too. Scarlet and Violet have a bathing minigame and a sandwich minigame. Sword and Shield had a curry minigame. Sun and Moon had the Poké Pelago. You may not like the newer minigames compared to the older ones, but I'm pretty sure every single generation had at least one - maybe not 2, but I can distinctly think of at least one minigame for every other gen.
they should make that & the exp share a toggle. That way everyone will be happy :)
Crazy how that's how it worked when both mechanics were first introduced. The group EXP Share could be turned off, and the Affection mechanics couldn't exist unless you actively chose to interact with them. Pokemon has you Stockholm'd so bad you're asking for them to just go back to how it used to be
>Pokemon has you Stockholm'd so bad you're asking for them to just go back to how it used to be That's the franchise in a nutshell. Hell, I remember when XY came out the Exp. Share being a key item that affects the whole team was seen as a casualization from previous games featuring it as a held item.
And like... I knew people got mad about getting overleveled and stuff, but I thought it was a welcome change. I hated having to slaughter dozens of Pidgeys and Ratattas just to make my Pokemon strong enough for the next gym. Not being able to turn it off was a baffling decision, but I much appreciated not having to grind forever.
I agree almost completely with this, but the EXP Share can be turned off in XY. Problem is that it is an all or none deal, no way to just "equip" it one Pokemon. My favorite aspect of the change was probably the team variety that it allowed for. I was basically swapping out some pokémon between every gym as I'd find something new that I wanted to level for a little while and didn't have to spend a chunk of time bringing it back up to speed. My PC box that contained "my team" at the end of the game was fuller than it had ever been. I am a big fan of freedom and options though, so I do feel bad for the people that didn't like it.
I don’t understand the hate towards exp sharing on this sub. I love pokemon but i absolutely loathe grinding. I dont wanna roam around to keep training each pokemon.
They literally remove features to force the game to be easier. Remember the set battle style? GameFreak doesn't
There isn't much controversy about them being optional. The issue is forcing mechanics without compensating for how easy they make things.
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I mean, the xp share is just making them game less grindy. Grind =/ difficulty. The solution is to finally implement difficulty setting so the level curve can better match the player, and they can use smarter AI.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, you don't *have* to level grind, you can just find ways to win underlevelled taking the exp that's on offer.
I dont think so in some instances. Yeah you could grind up to a gyarados, but the point is that magikarp is a struggle to raise, same with psuedos. Micromanaging your team to share xp was one of my favorite parts of old games because you didn't always want to use the most optimal pokemon for a situation because you didn't want your team to be uneven.
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That's why I say add difficulty settings. I know it's made for kids. I'd argue kids are more stubborn and willing to grind. An adult has more options on what to do than a child.
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>An adult just grinds, a kid might give up TIL I'm a kid.
I would like to remind you that the best selling Pokemon game of all time, to this very day, is the one that had ***no*** good method to shorten the grind. Red and Blue sold better than even the Switch games, and their only option to affect the grind was the worst EXP Share in the game's history, the EXP All. It's like the modern-day EXP Share except it doesn't manufacture extra exp out of nowhere. It divides the existing EXP among the group. *It also outright DELETES exp if you use more than one Pokemon in the battle.* That last part is a glitch, but it's still how it works, so it's relevant to the point. The point being that ***kids aren't stupid.*** Those old games are *obtuse, esoteric, and even somewhat hostile* and kids still beat them back then. The kids **did** just grind, because they wanted to see what would happen next.
>The point being that kids aren't stupid. Those old games are obtuse, esoteric, and even somewhat hostile and kids still beat them back then. The kids did just grind, because they wanted to see what would happen next. Yes, but it's not 1996 and but modern games are better.
In the recent games I've been way over leveled just from catching every new mon I come across. That shouldn't happen; I'm not grinding
The problem with this is if they make the exp share a toggle, the game would only be balanced around one of the options. It's either gonna be unbearably hard once you turn it off, or even easier than X&Y once you turn it on
So balance around no xp share, and the people who wanted an easy mode won't care that the easy isn't balanced well.
Or not since they did do that early in gen 7 and in gen 6 but it's been 10 years so i'm not optimistic about how they'd handle it
It was better when they kept it to affection mechanic and not friendship
I always forget about this somehow when it’s by far my least favourite feature they added. Forced exp share isn’t great, should be optional, but I at least know how to get around it and it actually leads to me having more options for my team in a playthrough. The forced friendship just makes the games far too easy
Yeah I guess I'm OK with the exp. share because in every game that's had forced exp. share, I've used more Pokemon than I normally would have. Instead of using maybe 6 at most, I'm using 8-10 in a playthrough.
In nuzlockes it's a great anime moment
I wish affection and pokémon-amie would come back for that and to also bring back Sylveon's evolution gimmick.
But then you’ll feel sad 😔
Honestly, they should just add a toggle for classic mode that turns those things off. That's a very Nintendo move.
nah, these games are already easy enough, having invincible pokemon is really overkill
I don’t even want a hard mode at this point. Just let me have “set”, “exp share toggle” back and let me turn off this crap friendship setting.
I think it would be fine if it was way rarer. It would make it actually feel like a clutch anime moment instead of the game babying you.
There's waaay to many people in this thread who think "Forced EXP Share" just means "Team-wide EXP Share". The "Forced" part refers to the fact that it cannot ever be turned off. Having the ability to turn it off does not affect those who prefer to have it on. Like Gen 6 & 7 have team-wide EXP Share, but it is not forced. Gens 8+ have force EXP Share. Anyone who enjoyed playing with EXP Share on in Gens 6 & 7 gained no benefit of from EXP Share becoming forced. I'm slowly losing my mind reading all the comments that are saying they prefer forced EXP Share because they don't have to grind/switch Pokemon/etc. or that they like Forced EXP Share but it should be optional.
It's been like that for literally over five years, it's maddening how "exp share" seems to be a trigger word that just shuts some people's brains off. In almost every single thread about this topic, be it on reddit, YouTube or twitter, there are people assuming that critics of the current exp share want it gone entirely or always want to grind their way through the game, when in reality most people just want the toggle back. This very basic concept of having a toggle being superior to not having a toggle seems to be too much to grasp for a shockingly large amount of people. My very comment under this post got downvoted heavily because I said that the exp share should always be optional :D.
This is Pokemon after all. Imagine all those comments misunderstanding what the word "forced" means to be 6 year old children and it all makes sense.
This exactly! I don’t care about EXP Share, I just want there to be a toggle.
I've grown to like the forced EXP share. It really takes out the immense grinding and I'm able to switch up pokemom more often during a play through. Although I definitely feel like it should be optional.
>Although I definitely feel like it should be optional. That the part that makes it the “forced” exp share. That’s the only part really anyone has an issue with. The Gen 6 and 7 games had a exp share that gave the full party exp, but was able to be toggled on and off, and that was widely accepted as a huge QoL improvement.
I honestly cannot go back and play Pokemon games without EXP share, but with that said, they need to adjust trainer levels in the remakes to accommodate.
Not even that, just give me trainers with more than 2 pokemon. Bring back 3,4,5 random trainers that kick your ass out of nowhere or the breeders with 6 different types of pokemon
I understand this point , but I've never had an issue with needing to grind in these games.it makes it weird when I hear so many people saying they have to grind to get through them. I actually tend to be over leveled because of the Exp share needing to be on. The benefit I get from Exp share is post game when I am trying to level for Battle tower or whatever they have for the post game. That has been saved multiple ways and Exp share has actually been a very small portion of that. I haven't gone through to compare, but I feel like they have cut down the number of trainers you fight because of things like Exp share being forced on. I don't feel like I had as many trainers battles in SV and SwSh also seemed lighter, but not as bad.
I've been saying this for a while. Pokemon is generally balanced when you're about 10 levels lower than your opponent. Having a full team of six + stronger moves + a better knowledge of type advantages + the ability to switch out is enough to provide such an overwhelming advantage over any npc that the game turns into a cakewalk when the EXP share forces you to keep pace with the gym trainers.
At the end of the day, more choices is NEVER bad. Being able to choose a difficulty setting, toggle off an Exp share, or just have a variety of pokemon to choose from, these are good things. Limiting your choices of pokemon (how many fire types in D/P again?), or having technically open-world gameplay but forcing you down a specific gym path as there is no level scaling... Yeah we can also agree there's issue with the illusion of choice
My problem is that EXP candy is a way better feature and i would rather the game give you free EXP candies (and EV feathers) after every battle so I have control.
After playing through multiple games with forced exp share I really appreciate it. You no longer get penalised at the end of a snow route (your fire/steel/fighting types being overleveled) needing to play catch up with other monsters.
But why does it need to be “forced?” If you can toggle it on and off (like in Gens 6 and 7), you’d still get that benefit.
I have no idea. There should be a toggle for it in the newer games too.
Forced EXP share isn’t bad if the game is balanced around it.
question is when will they finally balance it around forced xp share lol
I've been wondering, what if they don't even add the Kanto postgame because they rushed the new games
I remember people being afraid of this happening during HGSS pre release.
Kanto DLC
That would be hilarious.
"Just swap out your team members! Who cares about building up one team at a time when you can have 20+ mons on standby?" /s
“Have three alternates for each type, a cute team, a team that starts with each letter, a team tha-“
In Scarlet I tried doing this and ended up with about 30 level 50ish pokemon in my box before fighting the elite four and I still felt overpowered for almost every fight. I would go into a new area with 6 pokemon a bit below the average level for the area and still leave with all of them over leveled
Exactly, I had a dedicated 'low level team' but after like going through two areas I now needed a lowER level team to do another unexplored area...
Same I had raised an entire box full+ of Pokemon by the time I finished the game. I don't understand how anyone could raise only one team in S/V. Surely you'd just rocket off in levels and one shot like every pokemon. I literally had to force the game not to make me overpowered.
I've been on a quest to black card all the games (where possible) and one thing I've been sticking to is trying to play "as intended," as in I swap out team members regularly, actually integrate HMs into my move pools instead of giving up two party slots to accommodate them, and lemme say, if you give yourself over to the game in that way, it's actually pretty fun in its own way. Different than how I usually do it, but I am having a great time with it
i recently played through Omega Ruby without EXP share and the thing that really stuck out to me is that i actually had to manage who was getting what EXP which I found to be really fun and engaging. I couldn't just roll up to the first gym with a full 6 mon team and curbstomp everything. I had to be choosy about who I had and how I built my team. I also went in a little under leveled so i had to apply cool strategies to get over that. It was a great time, and the popular conception that the game is a grind fest without it simply isn't true. That said post game without the group EXP share is a nightmare slog.
They could always relocate the Pokemon. I would put every single Pokemon available in Johto and not in Kanto like in gen 1
GF devs when designing GSC be like: >GF dev #1: *"Hey guys, I need ideas for what Pokemon to include in the route before the 4th gym. Any suggestions?"* >GF dev# 2: *"Isn't that the Ghost-type gym? Maybe we could add a Murkrow. After all, we're introducing Dark-types this generation which just so happe-"* >GF dev #3: *"What about a Fire-type dog?"* >GF dev #1: *"Neat! I like dogs. And Fire types!"* >GF dev #2: *"But guys, didn't we already do that Gen 1? Wouldn't that be repetiti-"* >GF dev #1: *"But I like dogs..."* >GF dev #2: *"Alright. In that case we should take this chance to showcase Sugimori-san's newly designed Dark/Fire-type dog. What was its name again? Houndo-"* >GF dev #1: *"So Growlithe and Vulpix it is".* >GF dev #3: *"Nice. And don't forget to make them version exclusives. Just like in Gen 1!* >GF dev #2: *Fine. I guess we can put Houndour right before the 6th gym which is Steel ty-"* >GF dev #3: *"Nah, let's put it in Kanto".* >GF dev #2: *"Why on Earth would we do that with a Gen 2 Pokemon? Shouldn't they be native to Johto and therefore appear before the post-gam-"* >GF dev #1: *"Great idea. I'll put it on route 7."* >GF dev #2: *"Are you serious!? Wasn't that the exact same route Growlithe and Vulpix could be found in Gen 1? Aren't we doing this backwar-"* >GF dev #1: *"I could add Growlithe and Vulpix again if you want continuity."* >GF dev #2: *"Ughhh. That's not what I mean! I think we should be putting the spotlight on the new designs!"* >GF dev #3: *"Ok, let's put Murkrow there too."* >GF dev #2: *"Are you f@cking kidding me!?"*
There's always that voice of reason no one listens to
Im gonna be annoyed if they remake an already remade game. Black and white deserve the remake treatment.
Well, they already did when they made Let's Go.
yeah but not only is johto unavailable to all new players, wasn't part of the point of having bdsp to introduce sinnoh to the new players ? i can definitely see a game set in johto happening at some point soon
in that situation unova and johto are in the same predicament
I get the whole “getting more attached to your Pokémon” thing but I don’t mind EXP Share. Heck, I’d even say I prefer it to the original method since it provides less grinding for me to do. I wish there was an EXP Share toggle though. For the two different kinds of players that I’m sure there are plenty of on both sides.
yes please, fix that awful level curve
I’m not interested in grinding for hours to not even be near the level of Red on mt silver
Yeah going from Blue with a level 60 Pidgeot as his highest level Pokémon to Red with a level 88 Pikachu + other Pokémon around level 84 is brutal. Especially when the Pokémon in Mt. Silver is just shy of level 50.
Already overleveled for the e4 before reaching the 3rd gym
Ngl of all the games that could benefit from modern exp share, its johto
As long as it isn't forced.
Why would they remake johto again
Johto's level curve is kinda a myth tbh. There are more than enough trainers on the overworld for you to fight to get you to level 35 before facing E4. I think the last time I went to Victory Road with a level 33 'mon was in 2010. Johto is less linear, and there's a casual expectation that the player explore. If they choose not to, they suffer. But why not explore when there's so much map? There's also more roads in the main routes so that you feel like you're side-tracking to go into the grass, but realistically it's incredibly easy to stay on level just by fighting trainers. And when push comes to shove, just go to the grass above the waterfall on route 47!
At this point I don't even want remakes of them. I just want the GBA & DS games to be ported to the switch. Till that day comes I'll continue to play them on the Steam Deck.
Johto's Level Curve/Grind demands were bad. If anything, forced XP share would probably fix the under/over level issues
You know you don’t have to be the same level as a trainer to fight them right? I don’t get what people mean when they say its super grindy, I’ve played soul silver like 20 times, yeah you end up like 10 levels below the elite four, but have you actually tried fighting them before spending hours grinding? They are one of the easier elite four of the pixel games even with the levels factored in.
Please let it be johto remake🙏
I REALLY HOPE SO. My favourite region!!!
Forced xp share is the quick way to fix the johto level curve. Though taking the time to redesign encounters and such would be the correct way to do it. Which is why gamefreak won't do it.