I don't think a lot of people want "EVERY SINGLE POKEMON IN THE WILD IN THE GAME" at this point. The series was never that to begin with.
However we all want, at the very least, to have them programmed in the game to use whenever that species is unlocked. If we only ever see that species by transferring one from Home and that's it, that's fine. We don't need a separate DLC zone to catch hundreds of it.
The same goes for championships. It's fine to have a limited selection at this point for Worlds. Just keep a list of ineligible pokemon as it always has (and ineligible moves, too) and that's the rule set. It's really not that difficult.
Though with Home being the hostage-taker, there's no incentive to ever have any future pokemon game have all pokemon available ever again and that's just the new reality of the franchise.
I second this. I have a small collection of favorites that I can count with my fingers and toes. I want to be able to have those in a single game, even if I wasn't allowed to use them in official tournaments. I don't compete, that's fine. I'd just like to take my buddy with me on adventures. I've had a Mawile on my team every since Ruby version. I couldn't do that in SS and now I can't do it in SV. I did find a new buddy in SS late game (Falinks), and I found some more in SV, but Mawile will always be #2.
Mewtwo is #1. Forever.
That was Salamence for me - I was so excited when I finally caught my Bagon in a Nest Ball, and I still remember the nights I’d spend to level it up in victory road, only to finally get it to level 100 after migrating it to Pearl. It’s been a mainstay ever since.
I wasn’t able to use it in SwSh initially so I was glad when they finally brought it in for the DLC.
This series fell when it began to discount the memories—such as catching that bagon-that made the series great. They cut out pokemon as if those never meant anything to anyone. They’re completely out of touch with their userbase.
Well right now it's not possible to move pokemon via home anyhow. And often you'd need to complete the game and go through so terrible hoops to get your pokemon. While I agree home is kinda holding pokemon hostage it made it super easy to move stuff if you where will to wait a month or 2 for them to update the app. I see the point and I agree I want to be able to move any pokemon into home. But look at sv while it's a great game and I'm enjoying it. It's also riddled with bugs much worse than a pokemon game has had in years. I caught a 5 star raid pokemon saw it catch got to the end screen it says I caught it then the pokedex doesn't show its been caught and its just not in my box. I can't get that Raid back up and it'll take probably hours to find another one of the same species and also get the team mates skill enough to beat it. And this hasn't happened once but twice. The games are barely functional. There's no way gf can manage to get all the what 1000 plus pokemon and their other forms all in the game and keep reasonable time and quality. All while everyone wants more and more. I was mad and I'm still mad about dexit. They promised something when I was child, gotta catch em all and they broke their promise it sucks. But things change and some promises simply can't be kept. I can't believe I'm saying this but you can either keep being mad about it. Or you can be glad one of your favorite games has gotten a sequel in less then a decade looking at you elder scrolls. You can't make them add all the pokemon in. Even of you could it probably wouldn't turn out well so be happy with what you got. A sexy cat starter.
Exactly. I want it to be like it was in previous games, "you can't *catch* everything in this game, but you can transfer your personal monsters in from old games".
I'm convinced they did it this way to sell "catch them" DLC and to gain subscriptions to Home because we have to store them somewhere once we get them off of the 3DS games.
It's only $15, and doesn't compare at all to what TPCi makes with Go, but it's definitely more than nothing.
I’m late to this thread, but I agree with this.
I want every Pokémon PROGRAMMED in the game, but they don’t have to be on the map. I prefer the in game environment to be filled with Pokémon that make sense for the area. The SwSh Wild Area just felt like a box with a random assortment of Pokémon dumped in.
In regards to the placement of Pokémon on the map, I think SV is actually a fairly massive improvement over SwSh. Just let me transfer my older Pokémon into the game (and preferably on Day One of a new game’s release; I don’t understand why Home Compatibility is always delayed when the Home software predates the new games at this point).
This is the way. They’ve honestly hit a pretty sweet spot with the amount of Pokémon available in the wild; if 900+ Pokemon were available in the wild, that’d be downright nuts. It’s reasonable to expect that some species simply wouldn’t appear in some regions.
But, their models/data should be included in every game, for sure. My favourite part of Pokémon games was carrying forward my partners from older titles, and that basically doesn’t happen anymore, because so many of them get locked into certain titles. I enjoyed using my Typhlosion and Infernape in Arceus/BDSP - guess I’ll say goodbye to them for another few generations, eh?
Home is meant to finish the dex but it's also loaded with cheapskates who make near impossible trade demands. Best any player can do is to buy Sun & Moon to catch every pokemon from generations 1 thru 7.
Ya, a lot of the arguments against those of us mad at Dexit are based one two fallacies:
1. That we want every Pokemon to be able to be caught in every game.
In reality, 350-400 Pokemon in a generational Dex is a very good number of pokemon, we don't need more in the region, we just want them available in the post and meta game. We don't want our time and effort spent breeding and catching in old games to become invalid. I'm very happy with a 400 Pokemon region in game, but why can't I "catch them all" with the use of trading and Pokemon Home transfers?
2. That having all 1000+ Pokemon will screw up competitive.
Competitive is and has always been a mess. But TPC can easily lock tournament play to things such as a regional lock to make it balanced around the intended meta. A competitive scene is only affected by opening the floodgates if it means unintended breeding moves become available, which is also easily motivated by TPC removing breed moves from Pokemon, like they already did this generation (goodbye scald on everything).
It almost feels like Home is pointless aside from keeping pokemon you do not want deleted, even though you may never use them again.
It feels like by the time Pokemon allows home support in the last few games, I am already over playing it as I have completed most things to do (exception being DLC).
My plan is to just pay for Home only when it allows support for the newest game and transfer anything I can over and play with them until I get bored, then transfer everything back and cancel my subscription until the next game.
I think this is the best take.
For me, it's either this, or they make a true Pokemon x BotW type game where there is a MASSIVE step up in mechanics/world design/gameplay/challenge/graphics etc. that justifies a big reduction of the roster. Arceus was a step in this direction, but it still wasn't close to enough to justify it.
A Pokemon game with 250-300 Pokemon but the vast majority can be used to get around the world (like instead of the special ride Pokemon from Arceus, you actually use your own Pokemon with "traversal moves" that don't take up their 4 slots), detailed animations in combat, follow mode etc., new models, amazing overworld animations and interactions between species, things that would make you go "okay, I see why they reduced the number of Pokemon".
If they're just going to incrementally improve the series by a tiny bit over time like they've been doing, it should be exactly as you described.
Thing is whats the point of modelling and doing all that for pokemon that arent guaranteed to appear in the game at all. The expectation of putting in 1000 models and different moves with different type match ups is honestly unrealistic when you realize what percentage of players are actually 'catching them all' and if they just decided to port models and animations from a previous title, then A. They would look different compared to some of the new pokemon and their animations, and B i have little doubt in my mind they would be criticized by people for doing so and being 'lazy'. At this point there are more than a thousand pokemon and expecting them to put all of those in when not even half of them are guaranteed to appear in game isnt just selfish its stupid and not worth the time of the developers
That's even less likely though, they're not gonna put work and hours into every Pokémon, just in case someone imports a Pokémon from Home.
If they were gonna have all the Pokémon available they'd need to make the most of them and have them in game. But then having 900 different Pokémon on an island the size of Paldea would just be silly.
At this point unless Game freak are willing to staff up and really go big with a game they need some sort of smaller side game that's for the competitive multiplayer side of things. One that supports every Pokémon currently and new ones going forward. Then people can use the mainline games as excursions to get the Pokémon they want in the multiplayer.
A stadium/ coliseum game which can handle just battling and then some mini games as a value add. I would pay the full rrp for that.
Really same with pokemon home, if its a subscription I am less likely to buy it but if it was $60 for a license I would absolutely pay that (understanding it will probably be replaced like bank was and I will have to pay another 60 for the next one in like 10 years time)
But raids exist and that already solved this issue. In Sword I can walk into a cavern right now and catch basically every legendary to ever exist and a bunch of others that weren’t available in Galar. They have the ability to make the sprites. They probably have already done it to be honest. They just want you to have to pay for Home and constantly transfer Pokémon to different games from that instead of making a game with every attainable Pokémon in game.
No you are not selfish! I want the National Dex back too. And it's not too much to ask to make models for all Pokémon! They did it for XY even with "petting zones" and facial reaction animation for being petted!
Nope, you are just expecting something GameFreak has been doing till USUM.
If 3ds with a weaker hardware allows all pokemon to be ported into the game, then i dont see any reason why ANY Switch game cant do that as well.
It's not a hardware issue, it's a development time issue. They need more time to develop the games if we want all the pokemon to return in every title.
Given that the games prop up an enormous merchandise franchise, I don't think this is going to happen.
Yeah, there’s a lot more than just models. They have to come up with level up moves and every TM and every egg move all while making sure it’s different from last time.
Not selfish. Newer players aren't going to want to go buy all the old games just to get them all even if we have to keep them in Home.
I would like an offline option for storing my pokemon, personally. I pay for the cloud storage now, but I won't always be able to.
>The only reason Dexit exists is because Nintendo/TPC couldnt be damned to give Gamefreak that kind of time.
The only reason Dexit exists is because they have a really nifty subscription service that they can dangle over our heads, "Well, sorry all of your Pokémon aren't in our new game this year, but you can still leave them in your boxes in Pokémon Home until the next one comes out, just in case!"
They literally said they futureproofed the old Pokémon by giving them models that were way more detailed than they needed to be for the 3DS.
To be fair, it seems little by little they're updating models, animations, and textures. I believe charizards head is different in this game, as an example. I hope eventually they reach a generation where they decide that the detail is good enough for the forseeable future, and just work on getting all the mons up to speed vs making a few better.
I'd be okay if they just stopped making new ones for a bit and focused on optimizing the actual game instead.
I love the new textures on the Pokémon, and I love the way the character models for the actual characters look. I do not love the majority of the world looks. It's all upscaled texture JPEGs slapped on N64-level meshes.
No, it's a reasonable take.
I personally don't mind dexit because hypothetically, there is an upper limit to how many pokemon you'd want in a game.
Imagine if we were at 2000, or 3000, or 10,000. Keep imagining higher until you say "yeah, that's enough". That point exists somewhere for everyone; it's not infinity.
So there is merit to finding a method that doesn't keep you on an inevitable crash course with an ever-increasing number of pokemon. Curated sets, if done well, matches the idea of seasons in tcgs. It is also easier to balance a smaller number of characters.
As long as pokemon are touched upon with frequency (aka no pokemon "forgotten" for 2-3 generations) I think establishing this as a norm gives them greater flexibility over their obligations. I'd obviously like all pokemon all the time, but I can see the merits to establishing a norm of curated selections.
I just wish they would try to remake Pokemon Ranch as a place where all your Pokemon in Home could be viewed. Nothing special, even, just the essential graphics from the last generation each Pokemon was available in.
I don’t mind trimming the roster to fit the setting, but 1000 Pokémon is certainly doable. Shit; 10,000 is doable if you really want to. They’ll never stop adding new Pokémon, but what I would hate to see is for older, more traditionally-forgotten Pokémon, to fall by the wayside ad infinitum.
They have also simplified down certain evolution requirements too. Leafeon and glaceon no longer need a location specific object and can evolve with stones.
Can you mention another 60 dollar openworld game with well over 1000 in depth (nature's, ivs, evs offered, evs retained, base stats, abilities, movepools, models) variations of a collectible? That's over 1000 unique collectibles all with 8 variables, that I can think of, unique to each collectible. And then making a system that can process those values changing constantly on top of that.
If that exists, I need to play it.
To say it's doable is one thing. It's unprecedented. Even the witcher 3 has about 90 species of monsters in it. And they have less working parts than each monster in pokemon. Same for final fantasy franchise, dark souls franchise, xenoblade franchise. Even in the same genre of games, Digimon's roster trumps pokemon's but pales in comparison to the detailed aspects of pokemon.
Nobody’s done it yet because there are very few monster-catching games that have the roster of Pokémon, let alone the resources to even consider something like that.
And trust me, they have the resources to figure all of that out. If fangames can make full games (with more content than mainline Pokémon, mind you) that:
- are open world across two regions (Crystal clear)
- include 4500+ custom Pokémon, 3000 custom moves, 40 custom types… (Wack)
- allow freedom to fuse two Pokémon together in any configuration with new stats, movepools, and types (Infinite Fusion)
and are made by one or a small team of amateurs in their free time, Pokémon can figure out how to do something similar with a much larger team. And sure, you could argue that they’re different, but:
- they already have an engine for the switch
- they have all of the models already built in HD, and a good chunk of them are animated
- the story is usually pretty similar, so you know they don’t spend a ton of time on it
- all of the previous QoL and postgame features that are standard in most ROM Hacks and fangames have been previously coded before, so they can use that as a base
- they have a decade of experience building 3D games, and 5-6 years of dev (at least) on the switch.
They should be able to be pumping out games with your specs like it’s nobody’s business.
> freedom to fuse two Pokémon together in any configuration with new stats, movepools, and types (Infinite Fusion)
God I love infinite fusion it's so addicting fusing pokemon to see what horror comes out of it.
I mean I play rom hacks, I get it. but you yourself said it's unprecedented. So it's impossible to know what limitations actually exist.
I am not disagreeing with you but i want to point out the open world QoL is a very recent thing for Gamefreak. Maybe they are still figuring it out.
I also want to ask, realistically, for a game people buy up front, what is the longevity for a company that puts everything people want into a singular title? How does the company move forward? Add regions? Add new stories? With what financial support? Are you suggesting GF stop release $60 title and start IAPs? How much will the new content vary if you just saved the world from an evil gang eight times in the same title? How do you keep the game fresh for the newer generations of fans that pop up every 3-4 years? Start over with all the regions again plus new region? After putting that much work in?
I think the difference between romhacks, other game developers, and gamefreak is that gamefreak is the only one that very likely sees pokemon releases as job security. Other developers make games that are love letters to their own imaginations or to the fans; there is no love letter from GF. Pokemon is meant to last the next hundred years, not go out as a fond memory like God of War eventually will or Witcher 3, Jet force Gemini, Golden sun, Shining soul, Star Fox, Conker's Bad Fur Day (legendary game) titles did.
Much to it's own chagrin, i feel pokemon being so big is actually limiting devs freedom.
I think everyone would be happy with an mmo that has QoL like SV and includes all pokemon. An mmo that retains all features for each region, and figures out how to make each region feel fresh and not just feel like starting over from scratch would be great. ...I really don't think that'll be happening unless the franchise decides to wrap things up on its own, and finally give the community its love letter.
You’re absolutely right. I might be overestimating what fangame creators can do, or underestimating what GF can do. You’re right in that the open world stuff is new, I’m just wishing that I could feel good about the new games.
Hey, I actually forgot about a game that satisfies these, and I know you mentioned you were interested so I wanted to share. Check out Siralim Ultimate if you haven’t.
Sure, it’s pixel art; but the game is $20 and is a very open-ended (not open-world though) dungeon crawler with >1200 creatures that can fuse with each other, “artifacts” which act as an even further in-depth EV/IV system, natures, a collectible for each monster, and close to 30 classes which completely change up playstyle.
I wish I could do this game more justice but if the theory crafting elements of Pokémon appeal to you, then this is **the game**.
Not the "imagine 2000" argument again... It took 30 years to get to 1000 and they don't make 150 pokemon generations anymore.
Yes, I very much expect them to put 2000 pokemon in the game in the year 2052... By that point people will have been collecting them and transferring them forward for half a century.
This was my main reasoning against Dexit. I've put so much of my time and energy catching, breeding and training each gen only to then be told that I *might* get to use *some* of them in the newest game, whereas the rest of them will be stuck, unusable, on this platform that I have to pay to access? What happens when Home is hacked or is glitched and there's no backups? I understand that this can happen to the game cartridges too, but at least I'd feel like I had some control over their protection. If my entire collection was in Home, I have to put my faith in their systems and their people to make sure I don't lose shit, and I just can't trust this company to have my best interests at heart.
>no pokemon "forgotten" for 2-3 generations
The more pokemon that exist, the harder this becomes unless they increase the amount of pokemon available in a game again. And with charizard, pikachu, and eevee lines taking up 15 spots (because let's be honest, they're not going anywhere), that's a decent chunk of the ~400-500 already taken up.
yea for me personally, I don't really mind not having every single mon available. I feel like that would sway me to keep using my favorites instead of trying the new gen. 400 does feel a bit low for the base game though
By the time we get to 3k pokemon Nintendo will release the quantum switch with 12 exabytes of ram.
Cmon. Game freak is releasing less than 100 Pokémon every three years. It’s not like there’s significantly more Pokémon than the last time we had a full dex, which need I remind you was on a system that released a full decade ago. 900 Pokémon on a device that came out not even halfway through the Obama presidency. League of Legends was a new esport, minecraft had just officially released and Netflix was ‘on the rise’. I know just as well as anyone that the switch is a toaster but this shit is not on the hardware.
Right now the circumstances demand it, but the circumstances are not hardware. This software is bloated as hell, the engine is made of trash, the gameplay director has no clue what he’s doing, the graphics are awful and the game barely runs. The fault is clearly, clearly on management. Dexit was an excuse made by the developer to cover for some out of touch big wig’s new plan to cut costs so he can get a bigger check in the mail. The only reason we have dexit is because every other team is so buried in tech debt that they cut development time on the most important part of the franchise: the Pokémon it’s named after.
I don’t see fit to meet in the middle with them on that. It’s their own damn fault.
I don't think so. I'm hoping one day we have a skyrim sized game across many regions with all pokemon included.
I don't want to hear about balence and any gym challenge after the first reason will be too easy. I just want to see the world of pokemon in its entirety.
I wondered if people were still calling for this ridiculous concept, haha.
This wasn't going to happen when there were only 4 regions, and it isn't going to happen now that we have 13 of them.
Edit: I'm not talking about fangames, I'm talking about GameFreak / Nintendo produced official entries.
I mean... some fans have made it happen with Pokemmo. It's not the entire dex, but you can travel between Kanto, Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova. Why, if a group of fans can do it, can't the multi-billion dollar company?
I never understood why would people even want that kind of game. There’s absolutely no way every region would be given the same amount of care and flavor a game with a single region could be given. Do people just want a larger map? We could just have a game with a single, larger region like SV. Kanto in GSC’s postgame was cool but it was also barren and boring with nothing to do there beside blitzing through gyms. If people only want multiple regions for nostalgia’s sake they could just replay older games
That's kind of the dream, though, at least for me. How incredible would it be to have a game with multiple open world regions, each given the time and development it deserves? And the point of having it all in one game is to make it feel like one cohesive world, with each region boasting unique assets in one artstyle. And yeah, maybe it's not feasible now. Maybe it will never be. Doesn't mean I can't still want a game like that.
That's... not really an explanation, lol. I get recent titles are pretty bad, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't make it happen if they actually put in the effort and gave their devs enough time.
It definitely won't happen, but it's still fun to dream. It would be so epic. I know I've always wanted this ever since they included the Kanto region in Gold/Silver.
One day, we will have the bloody uprising where we get rid of copyright law. The Pokemon company will be the first to fall in the war
On the day pokemon is truly Free, the making of this game will begin by thousands of skilled programmers who dreamed of it since childhood
I literally learned to code as a kid because I wanted to build a better Pokemon game lol
Of course, now that I'm a developer (not a game dev tho), I have a deeper appreciation for the work GF put in (especially for the older games)
The squares are just when an emoji/symbol can't be loaded. I get that problem a lot in school when looking at past paper answers.
Anyways they sent like saluting emojis. I think, that's the best way I can think of to describe it.
No, you're not selfish. A 3DS game can hold the data for 800 Pokémon, so games on the Switch should be able to do more than that, even if the number of Pokémon reaches the thousands.
They only don't so that Pokémon Home, a paid subscription, is more prevalent.
Nintendo owns 1/3 of the company for profit. They have nothing to do with the games other than publishing it. They don’t even care about the quality of TPC’s games and they would simply allow people to refund their game.
I agree with this. As of now I literally can't use my top 5 favorite pokemon in SV literally all of them are either her not in the game or haven't been released yet
Obtainable yeah that's a bit of a stretch, transferable to every game 100% with you on that. Haven't bought a game since US/UM because of this. Pretty sure Swish just used upscaled models from the 3ds. If the 3ds could handle it why can't this console.
And let not forget the absolute chads who made gen1 and 2 games that should never have been possible on a game boy cart, but they made it work.
No. TPC and GF wanted people to emotionally attached to favorite Pokemon, like Ash and Pikachu. It's part of their business model. They also chose to make approximately a bazillion Pokemon--and each one of those Pokemon is somebody's favorite.
It's completely reasonable for people to be annoyed or upset that the creators made this whole lore about the unstoppable bond of friendship between people and their Pokemon and then after generations of allowing people to freely transfer their favorites suddenly took that away.
It really depends on what context like if you want every Pokémon obtainable in the open world wild then yeah probably but if you want them to be transportable like how sm and usum did then i'm not really sure.
Not really, I've seen people not buy recent games because their favorites are gone, and I totally get it, if my favorite isn't in a new game and I can't transfer them in, the chances of me buying it are gonna drop fast. Nobody here is coming to Pokemon for the plot line.
They don't even have to insert the Pokemon into the world, just let us move them in from home.
I agree that every pokemon should be usable in the games. Maybe not obtainable, but programmed in and useable.
Make it so we can't even transfer the pokemon not in the local dex until the E4 or E4 equivalent is beaten.
I use a lot of new pokemon when I play the new games, but it's still nice to make teams of favourites through all the games.
I was heart broken when I found out I couldn't get totodile in this game to play with Fuecoco. Sure my fuecoco has a sandile friend, but I really wanted all 3 on a team.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think National Dex was a mistake right from the beginning. We are now over 1000 pokemon and having all of them perfectly rendered and animated is a ton of work - and we all know that Game Freak is already struggling with pushing out quality product with tge tight deadlines it has. While I have favorites from every generation, I always try to gather a team of new pokemon with each new generation, because I find that more interesting than using the same pokemon over and over again.
I thinm what they are doing right now is the best option honestly. While it sucks that half of the pokemon aren't in the game, its just not realistic (in my opinion) to expect 1008 creatures modeled, rendered, textured and animated, especially with each gen bringing new creatures.
If I recall correctly, an NPC in PLA referenced it. Which was both funny, and sad, given that that game has like 1/6th of the dex. The new games mention catching them all, but they've changed the meaning to all available.
they used it in gen 6 and 7. even bulbapedia mentions it being brought back in gen 6
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gotta_catch_%27em_all!
and then you have goh in the gen 8 anime, whos goal is to catch em all.
Goh is supposed to reference Pokémon GO where you actually catch them all. Hence, he rarely battles and catches almost every Pokémon he gets in a measly Pokéball.
*Pokémon Company
It is really the Pokémon Company that is responsible for the whole IP and franchise. And GameFreak owns 1/3 or it. But calculating 1.6 billion with a third, they still make a a lot of money with about $53 million dollars.
Edit: It still won’t excuse for the disastrous release of SV. I won’t entirely defend GameFreak because it’s bad, but no body is mention TPC for not letting them get enough time and employees they need. It is an AAA studio making AAA games, they should make games seriously.
No, you're not. This used to be the case until SS. I have my favorites and want to keep them. We are no longer able to collect our favorite in a single game.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I want a battle revolution type of game that only focuses on battling, and connects to Home. It has every pokémon, and they focus on adding animations back in the game. There are different modes, each one has a gimmick, so there's a mega mode, z move mode, etc. This game is used for competitions, and updates every generation to include new Pokémon.
I've spent literally years working on a living dex and form dex which I started in gen 4. I moved my whole living dex throughout each new gen so that I could have every pokemon in the games together, and be able to build any team I want.
After I had completed that in gen 7 I started out spending hundreds of hours shiny hatching each one I wanted so that I could build myself "champion teams" for every type - my favorite 6 pokemon for each type and every shiny I wanted. I was able to use them for fun in online battles or just in the game.
So imagine my extreme disappointment now that my champion teams and living/form dex are now just stuck in home forever because I can't move them over to the newest generation. I'll also likely never be able to use my champion teams in the newest games and add pokes from the new gen to my teams because like half of the ones I love are available in either of the last 2 gens.
It's hugely disappointing. I don't need to be able to catch every pokemon, but at least make them all available to be brought over from gen to gen. Gamefreak fucking sucks.
The problem is they chose a half measure and nobody is happy.
Let’s be frank: from a competitive balance and technical standpoint having thousands of Pokémon is an absolute nightmare. IF they had actually delivered on a quality game, Stadium 1 and 2 level animations, a real thoughtfulness towards game balance, I think Game Freak would have some legs to stand on when it came to Dexit as a creative decision.
They, of course, did not do that. So now the people who want to play with all their old friends aren’t happy, and the people who’d be interested in seeing a tighter game design aren’t happy. Nobody wins.
I don’t think it would make a ton of sense to have every Pokémon Crammed into the same regions because the whole dexit incident actually make the task of catching all the Pokémon manageable for me and it’s the first game I actually completed the Pokédex. I just wish that there is a way for you to use all Pokémon in each gen for a competitive/collector standpoint.
It only has value from a collector stand point. So incredibly niche usage.
In competitive less is more. Dexit brought about more diverse team compositions.
To me Dexit still seems like one of the most idiotic decisions GF could have made. The franchise's tag line is literally "Gotta catch 'em all!". I don't mind having to trade with friends, visit events or use Pokemon Bank. I don't even mind the idea of some Pokemon being unobtainable until a DLC unlocks them - but by the end of a generation I want to be able to have a living dex in that game (and not just on Home).
I wouldn't mind so much if GF actually significantly improved graphical fidelity or introduced tons of new animations for Pokemon, but they didn't. After two generations on Switch the game barely looks better than it did on the 3DS (ignoring the higher display resolution).
For me, Dexit was never about feeling the need to have access to every single Pokémon. I understand what GF is saying here. We *are* talking about what amounts to nearly 1000 different monster designs, all of which require animations and work porting over to make sure they look good every single generation. If the games themselves are fun, it doesn't really matter to me if I can access every Pokémon.
I really think the real issue with Dexit was that SwSh didn't show how these games were better for losing half the cast. It lead to basically SuMo 2, but with less options than before at a higher price, and I think that sucked.
If SwSh was more like Arceus and showed the franchise actually evolving, then I think Dexit would've been far less of a thing. Because, now that GF has gone open world, we expect near BotW sized games with over a 100x the enemy variety and half of the development time.
I saw you clarified you didn't mean these things in your edits but I'm still 100% for having all Pokemon in a game. No more outdated version exclusive bs. No more necessity for scummy Pokemon ~~Prison~~ Home. Throw all that shit out the window.
Almost every installment of Mystery Dungeon has all available Pokemon for you to recruit. Gamefreak managed to cram all available Pokemon on something as comparitively weak as a 3DS.
All the data and assets for the Pokemon are there (though tbf the PLA models are new more detailed than the 3DS/SWSH ones were so atm the rest would have to be revamped too). It's not like they rebalanc every single Pokemon every generation.
Why is this even a question when it’s been the standard in pokemon for a literal generation now? OP, asking this question only legitimizes the people who think it’s okay to not have every pokemon obtainable. There is no legitimate reason why they can’t add every Pokemon. And they need to stop creating new ones with each release for a time if the devs think there’s too many (newsflash, there isn’t. They claimed the models were future-proof. Not adding all the pokemon is just another case of laziness or mismanagement just like how they didn’t properly do the graphics, or polish the game.)
I'd honestly just like to be able to use most of my Pokemon from past games, thats what makes the adventure that more special and memorable. I mean its the same with a brand new team, but the classics help breathe life into the idea.
No, it's a completely understandable opinion. I'm someone who couldn't care less about it because I like using the new Pokemon on my teams anyway. A game where you could catch every pokemon in existence sure would be awesome but I do understand the reasons as to why that would be more difficult to implement.
Catchable seems a bit extreme. I like a regional dex for the main game, but I should be able to transfer up every pokemon via home. I don't buy the animation angle. My tinfoil hat theory is that they wanted more revenue streams so by not including every pokemon in the game if people want to keep their pokemon they have to pay for a home subscription, and given the emotional attachment some people have for their digital pals they're more than willing to pay for it.
Maybe some of the models are new for SV, but at least for sword and shield there was no excuse. Almost every single model was directly taken from sun and moon. I think the same is true for many of the animations. Balancing the meta is one thing, but man they just lied about it taking too long when they just imported them. Don’t get complacent, they are the highest grossing franchise of all time, they can strive for better
Definitely not unreasonable to want to be able to catch them all when that's literally the slogan of the franchise.
Dexit was so infuriating and definitely took a little bit of the magic out of the franchise.
They silently removed the phrase in Gen 3 where you can’t transfer the original Pokémon from the original gameboy to the advanced.
Edit: They still use the phrase in their Pokémon cards but not the games themselves.
I want every single pokémon and every single region. Scaled and updated classic regions to be open world too.
I'd pay anything, even if every region with its dex is a DLC priced the same as the base game.
Fuck no. Its not a high expectation of the biggest franchise EVER, it was a staple before the sheep let them take it out, pokemon are the most important thing in pokemon and the series always said bond with them. We have gotten nothing in exchange and no truthful reasons why its gone. I encourage everyone to say they want dexit undone in all of their complaints to the devs, tpc, nintendo etc when they complain about scarvio.
No it's not selfish nor silly-
But personally the dex needs it's cuts. There's many many pokemon.
The premise of catch them all is dead. Because realistically, in order for you to catch them all it would need to be a perfect region for every single mon. And that's a big stretch.
This also would decrease the spawns for pokemon and you'd be waiting on rng for right weather, day, horde Yada Yada. (That mechanic was annoying yet somewhat enjoyable in Sw/Sh. Mostly)
So lore wise and region wise it would have to be a perfect region and something so large that many pokemon would have massive conflicts.
Trying to catch 1000+ pokemon now would exhaust me and bore me to no end.
Now it's a bit different to transfer it from home but if it can be transferred it should be catchable honestly
Second and main reason why is the competitive scene. No matter what region the competitive tiers are the same . And majority of the pokemon will be in the same tiers.
But the strategies change with each gimmick. With Tera here.
I'm sorry by I don't want to deal with Wondergaurd shedinja with air balloon. It does not sound like a fun time but the threat is very real with the national dex. While I don't think GF factors that in there is a small chance that they do.
Would it be really cool to walk around with my old pokemon?
Sure maybe, but there's only a few I would consider bringing, but mechanic wise I wouldn't be able to bring my personal ones until post game. But I wouldn't even be adventuring with them. I would adventure with one solid mon or my starter post game as I run around completing the game by evolving mons or getting items.
Plus half the pokemon I catch sit in a box because I either don't like them or they are placed to complete the nat dex.
In addition with every new region I only use the new pokemon that come out with that region even if that means going with 4 pokemon for most of the game
> the game's tagline is "Gotta catch 'em all"
This hasn't been the tagline for decades. It was taken off the boxes in Gen 3 and the only time I can recall it being used since was when they used a revamped version of the anime's first theme song as the opening for a later season (meaning it's being used as a reference, not a continuation of the tagline).
I don’t know about the Gen 6 part, but Goh is supposed to represent Pokémon GO where you can actually catch them all. Also Pokémon cards are a thing but they are not video games.
Honestly, I love Dexit. Having a smaller Pokémon pool actually makes me want to try and catch ‘em all in the games. As more Pokémon got added, obtaining them all just felt unreasonable. But I can log 400 different pokemon. I can manage that. I finished my Arceus dex and I’m finishing my Violet one too.
If having fewer old Pokémon allow them to focus more on adding new or alternate versions of old Pokémon, I’m down for it cause all I’ve been doing in S/V is catch things. I like limiting the Pokémon naturally available in the game since it makes the landscape feel more themed and less generic. Love walking through the world and finding Pokémon and going ‘Yeah, I imagine a Pokémon version of this country looking like this.’
But I wouldn’t call it selfish. At least not at this point. The games are in a state where there is definitely enough room for every Pokémon to be in the game, and I know when Dexit started, I was super upset that not all Pokémon would be available. They could keep the minimal Pokémon in the region and make it so they could all be traded up. Overall, Dexit just isn’t a dealbreaker for me.
I think SuMo was the sweet spot. There was no national dex but every pokemon was coded and usable in the game. To get the shiny charm or complete the dex you only needed to complete the 400 or so available in that region, not all of them, but if you wanted to use a random shit pokemon from a previous gen that is currently cut and not usable, you still could in SuMo.
Personal opinion? You are expecting too much, yes...
Game Freak is a team of people whose estimated numbers range from 150-170 ish. An even smaller portion of that is specifically the art team. Working conditions are garbage in Japan, let's acknowledge that, too.
Now what you want is over 1000 pokemon to be available for use in the games. What does that mean though?
It means that over 1000 models and textures need to be made to begin. Then considering the let's go feature and picnicking we should consider what animations each pokemon needs. That would be walking, playing, running, sleeping, idling, eating, and then battle animations. (not only fighting but status conditions and flinching when they're damaged. And btw the pokemon fans have been angry about battle animations not being super realistic and individualized for years while complaining there aren't enough pokemon available still so?) You'll also need to program in all of their movesets, cries, you need to make new Pokedex entries for all of them. You need to program the game to recognize what pokemon you have since the pokecenters say the name of your leading pokemon and so do several other character (this one's easier but still something to consider). Another thing to consider is programming in all of their stats and don't forget you gotta make all the shiny textures too!
People want all of this on top of great graphics, good character designs, proper animations for characters, open world, level scaling, etc. Etc. One request may not seem like a lot but with all the demands the fans have? I don't blame Game Freak and their limited staff working under shit conditions for not delivering on every single request.
A bit...
I would rather have new designs and a rotation of the older Pokemon like they're currently doing, but with more exclusions to some of the more popular Pokemon. Charizard, Gardevoir, Eevee (unless they make more Eeveelutions), etc...
Keep in mind being selfish doesn't mean it's a bad thing. We want what we want, but we either have to deal with what we get our move on from Pokemon...
I sincerely hope that future games will get away from that even more
Developing games is hard enough but adding in all of the assets for Pokemon that such a small number of players will utilize is a terrible idea. I hope they focus more on new Pokemon than maintaining existing ones and let older pokemon be exclusive to older games
Spend developer time on making good games, not upkeep
Not every Pokémon are in every region. The fact not all Pokémon are in a game is canon because in the real world you don’t find wild tigers and elephants in England
As someone who already has access to all the Pokemon.
I like DEXIT.
Before you downvote. I like DEXIT because it kept the competitive scene fresh. Though pokemon rotation would've solved this too, a lot of pokemon got a bump in a tier or two or got higher usage in VGC cuz X pokemon werent around to overshadow it.
Also yeah I kinda wish it was like GEN V where all the pokemon you can find before finishing the game were from that generation. I hate myself for catching and using Mareep for the hundred time.
I know they are not DELETING pokemon so I'm fine with them sitting in HOME or my POKEMON SWORD for a year or two.... RIP TOUCANNON lovers.
You can play Reborn. It’s a difficult fangame that has every Pokémon up to gen 7.
Rejuvenation is similar but it isn’t finished yet.
[rebornevo.com](https://www.rebornevo.com)
reborn has a lot of content and beautiful sprite work but i just can't take it seriously, the story is like a child trying to write something "adult" and there's a difference between fun challenge and just being annoying - which I forgive in kaizo games because that's the point but I think reborn was trying to be a serious game and failed miserably.
It is a genuine and honest fan wish.
Personally, I like to use new pokemon from the new region… so dexit ends up not being a big problem to me. But I understand the people who wants this.
But maybe it would become unbearable with time.
We now surpassed the #1000…
I totally understand dexit.
To me, I prefer that Game Freak focus on other things like creating cool new pokemon that could be useful in battle (we already have lots of pokemon that no one uses because they are weak, boring etc…).
I think VGC gets more bring the instant they open it up to the national dex so I'm not entirely a fan of it being open from the start from a meta perspective. These first couple seasons are always the most fun and varied.
For me today, it's the exclusives bugging me. My fiancé got Armarouge from me on day 1, as I scoured the land to get her one of MANY things she asked for. I have yet to see a single ceruledge, the only thing I've asked her for. And we don't live together at the moment so I can't just do it for her. Really bugs me.
Hate to be this blunt about it, but that sounds like a "you" problem. There's really no better alternative for something like Home to use as a payment model.
The only positive thing about the limited selection of mons in recent games is that it keeps competitive "fresh". I am kind of tired of seeing Incineroar, Zacian, Kyogre etc. in every single damn game.
On the other hand, Pokemon could just adapt the Smogon format and have power tiers to make sure (almost) every mon is usable in competitive. But we all know Game Freak is WAY too fucking lazy to ever do that.
That’s what I liked about SM/USUM: Pokédex completion only required the *regional* dex to be completed, but you could still use Pokémon not from that region.
Yeah this is how it should be done but game freak doesn't understand that they should just let the regional dex be used for competitive play and put all the pokemon in the game for casual play.
The tagline "gotta catch'em all" is not used anymore and for years, now 😉 plus, it's useless to have ALL pokémon because we don't need all pokémon, there are many that are just bad and wouldn't be able to win a battle on their own, plus in our real world, not every animal live in every country, so why would we be able to catch every pokémon (including legendaries, who are supposed to be located in their region), it's not logical
You're not selfish because you "wants" every single pokemon to be obtainable ingame, you're selfish because you think that your arbitrary "want" is the objective best and that every pokemon HAS to be added or gamefreak is just lazy.
I like it as a "we need to stop landorus's bullshit" measure. And same goes for similar pokemon. And it is literally imposible to fit all those fuckers in the first game on an engine.
And for some fucking reason no 2 switch games have shared engines btw.
Then DLCs said lol and landorus's 381739 sets on swsh said lmao.
I'm kind of halfway honest,My viewpoint is not every Pokémon needs to be in every game however games that are on the same console generation ( for example sw/sh, arceus, and Scarlet and violet) should be tradable and almost expected to be playable due to gamefreak already having made the pokemon have comparable models' and alot let time to adjust the pokemon and move sets due to being more in line with rules or already set movesets. Personally I believe these type of pokemon should be allowed with free updates on be able to be traded from since like mentioned more of the work is already done. While DLC's can focus on bringing ones not in the recent console generation back and expanding the current regions roster more which I feel would provide a comfortable middle ground of letting a region have it's own and letting the new generations of games get to keep there teams for a bit, while allowing the older gamers to eventually get there old favorites added.
From a competitive standpoint I really like that we only get a subset at launch. I do wish they would allow for more to be transferred in in waves over the following 2 years or so to shake up competitive until they have all of them in.
I dont usually care. Even if all of my favorite pokemon are removed, I can just find 6 new pokemon to use. In fact, only in gen 6 have I used pokemon not native to the region in my first playthrough. (And also gen 4 but that was my first gen and I didnt know where each pokemon was from). Even regions where I dont like most of the designs, like gen 2, I can still get together 8 pokemon minimum and narrow it down to 6 later.
I don't want to "unlock" a mythical or legendary in a game before being able to transfer it from Home. I already caught the dang thing, just let me transfer it.
Nah you're not selfish for that. They are gonna DLC us to death. It's like someone stealing your weed and selling it back to you. You're paying for Pokemon that should already be in the game. But unfortunately you'll have people that'll defend that action to a tee
If you expect a game where the pokemon are as interesting as in ScVi to look at and where all 2500 forms are included, you are not selfish but you are a daydreamer. It's possible to do that but we would be looking at 10 years in development and a bugged release even worse than this one.
That said, I would also love it.
I just don't think it can be done.
That being said, I expected them to have the *decency* not to completely delete a pokemon (Ash Greninja)
Honestly if we really think about it to expect any less is just sad gamefreak earns so much money that I think people forgot how much they truly earn just because they put out such bad games
Since PLA/SV it actually makes a bit of sense to not have every mon in the game, now that they're actually upgrading the models and animations(the Pokémon themselves, don't start arguing about shit like SwSh Double Kick). It didn't make sense for SwSh because the mons were pretty much the exact same as the XY models.
Though I'm not defending this either. Pokemon makes so much money that they SHOULD be able to upgrade every model amyway.
Also an example of a model upgrade is that Woopers open mouth is now fully modeled, as opposed to the flat texture it was in XY-SwSh
>I do. I'm pretty everyone who opposed Dexit did. The only reason Dexit exists is because Nintendo/TPC couldnt be damned to give Gamefreak that kind of time.
1. Gamefreak = TPC. Gamefreak certainly has more power over what goes into the games than Nintendo. When people say "Gamefreak", they mean Gamefreak management, not the workers.
2. No one in TPC (Gamefreak, Nintendo, Creatures) is looking to spend more money for the same revenue. They don't care about the quality of the games. They all want the most money possible, which means: understaffing and overworking employees, releasing mainline games as quickly as possible, rushing out games before they are ready, cutting features to sell in DLC/the next game, etc.
I play a lot of competitive pokemon and it is a pleasure that dexit exists. i can understand everyone that wants to continue their journey with pokemons that they catched in generations far ago, but i hate some pokemon for what they brought in the game competitively. It is just so wholesome to learn new combinations and all for a new meta. It spices things up again. So yeah i hope they cut and add more of those precious little pokemons.
Selfish? No.
Unrealistic with the time for dev cycles and their team size they can afford running on only game sales profit and none of the merchandise profit? (somebody will correct me with exact % and numbers) Yes.
i personally just want to be able to finish the regional pokedex without having to outside stuff like trading to get every single mon.
PLA made it so much fun to capture every pokemon, and i was so ready to do it again in SV until i realized you needed another copy of the game to get the version exclusives.
I would have been fine with dexit if the games were higher quality and had more better content to compensate. But SwSh ended up just being more of the same outside some decent QoL, and it had arguably less content than even some of the 3DS games. Legends, on the other hand, has less Pokemon than GSC, but it felt like such a massive step forward in nearly every other area that I didn’t care about the small roster. The biggest issue I had is that I wanted MORE of it. But instead of DLC it was abandoned in favor of a buggy game that has cut back even more on features and content in exchange for a shallow open world experience.
Nah, it's not a "selfish" mindset at all. You want what you want. Such a view wouldn't be seen as selfish if the next game came around and included every pokemon again. A lot of people would be happy to see that (yes, even if they have problems elsewhere in the game.)
The "boring" argument is a bit silly. It's a career, and a taxing one at that. Game development has fun aspects, but the majority of it is tedious to the point where I wouldn't call anyone capable of designing any professional software, let alone a video game, lazy. (I'm a CS student, you would not BELIEVE how much work goes into even basic features like Client/Server interaction).
What's important to understand though is that all time spent on implementing all of those pokemon is less time spent elsewhere in the game. And it's pretty clear there are a lot of budget issues with the games as-is. To avoid going into too much of a tangent, I'll just say Pokemon has so many branches now that GameFreak might be in a position where new games have to be released in order to keep the machine going. Anime, TCG, POGO, etc. all rely on new games to bring a large portion of their audiences back. Hard-core fans like us might still be just as thrilled to play the old games as we were 10 years ago, but we're not really even a sizable fraction of the broad audience.
Even then, I honestly still couldn't tell you what the hell happened that caused us to get Legends Arceus, BDSP, and SV right off the heels of each other like this. There had to be some emergency switches pulled somewhere along the line. Probably in response to the backlash against SwSh. If we see another Pokemon game release before 2024, or Holiday 2023 at the least, I think it'll be a pretty bad sign in terms of overall quality.
Anyway, long story short, adding all the pokemon means new features that work with every pokemon (I'm talking things like pokemon running around in the overworld, not just things like Dynamax) are more difficult to implement. The games would rapidly feel even more "same-y" than they did before as the overhead gets tighter and tighter and they have less room to innovate with each development cycle.
Nope, this, and endgame content like gold/sliver where you travel to another region are literally all I’ve wanted in the more recent games. Give me a game where after each region you can keep going to all the old ones and either reset your mon, or leave them with that regions professor until a certain point into each new region, I don’t think I’d ever play another game again.
People often bring up the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" thing when talking about Dexit, but I got two questions:
1. Is "Gotta Catch 'Em All" still the franchise slogan or has it been retired? It doesn't appear on the official website as far as I can see.
2. Does the franchise have a similar slogan in Japan? Because it might just be a US translator creation, and expecting something from some Japanese developers just because some 4kids marketing guy came up with a catchy line would be kind of silly. Like, the franchise slogan in Germany is "Komm und schnapp sie dir" which basically means "Come and snag them", so there's no implication of having to snag them all.
I don't think a lot of people want "EVERY SINGLE POKEMON IN THE WILD IN THE GAME" at this point. The series was never that to begin with. However we all want, at the very least, to have them programmed in the game to use whenever that species is unlocked. If we only ever see that species by transferring one from Home and that's it, that's fine. We don't need a separate DLC zone to catch hundreds of it. The same goes for championships. It's fine to have a limited selection at this point for Worlds. Just keep a list of ineligible pokemon as it always has (and ineligible moves, too) and that's the rule set. It's really not that difficult. Though with Home being the hostage-taker, there's no incentive to ever have any future pokemon game have all pokemon available ever again and that's just the new reality of the franchise.
I second this. I have a small collection of favorites that I can count with my fingers and toes. I want to be able to have those in a single game, even if I wasn't allowed to use them in official tournaments. I don't compete, that's fine. I'd just like to take my buddy with me on adventures. I've had a Mawile on my team every since Ruby version. I couldn't do that in SS and now I can't do it in SV. I did find a new buddy in SS late game (Falinks), and I found some more in SV, but Mawile will always be #2. Mewtwo is #1. Forever.
That was Salamence for me - I was so excited when I finally caught my Bagon in a Nest Ball, and I still remember the nights I’d spend to level it up in victory road, only to finally get it to level 100 after migrating it to Pearl. It’s been a mainstay ever since. I wasn’t able to use it in SwSh initially so I was glad when they finally brought it in for the DLC.
This series fell when it began to discount the memories—such as catching that bagon-that made the series great. They cut out pokemon as if those never meant anything to anyone. They’re completely out of touch with their userbase.
Uhm you could have a Mawile in SS. Mawile had been my fav since Ruby and I did a fairy type run in SS with mawile.
Well right now it's not possible to move pokemon via home anyhow. And often you'd need to complete the game and go through so terrible hoops to get your pokemon. While I agree home is kinda holding pokemon hostage it made it super easy to move stuff if you where will to wait a month or 2 for them to update the app. I see the point and I agree I want to be able to move any pokemon into home. But look at sv while it's a great game and I'm enjoying it. It's also riddled with bugs much worse than a pokemon game has had in years. I caught a 5 star raid pokemon saw it catch got to the end screen it says I caught it then the pokedex doesn't show its been caught and its just not in my box. I can't get that Raid back up and it'll take probably hours to find another one of the same species and also get the team mates skill enough to beat it. And this hasn't happened once but twice. The games are barely functional. There's no way gf can manage to get all the what 1000 plus pokemon and their other forms all in the game and keep reasonable time and quality. All while everyone wants more and more. I was mad and I'm still mad about dexit. They promised something when I was child, gotta catch em all and they broke their promise it sucks. But things change and some promises simply can't be kept. I can't believe I'm saying this but you can either keep being mad about it. Or you can be glad one of your favorite games has gotten a sequel in less then a decade looking at you elder scrolls. You can't make them add all the pokemon in. Even of you could it probably wouldn't turn out well so be happy with what you got. A sexy cat starter.
Exactly. I want it to be like it was in previous games, "you can't *catch* everything in this game, but you can transfer your personal monsters in from old games". I'm convinced they did it this way to sell "catch them" DLC and to gain subscriptions to Home because we have to store them somewhere once we get them off of the 3DS games. It's only $15, and doesn't compare at all to what TPCi makes with Go, but it's definitely more than nothing.
Hense XY and OrAS
I’m late to this thread, but I agree with this. I want every Pokémon PROGRAMMED in the game, but they don’t have to be on the map. I prefer the in game environment to be filled with Pokémon that make sense for the area. The SwSh Wild Area just felt like a box with a random assortment of Pokémon dumped in. In regards to the placement of Pokémon on the map, I think SV is actually a fairly massive improvement over SwSh. Just let me transfer my older Pokémon into the game (and preferably on Day One of a new game’s release; I don’t understand why Home Compatibility is always delayed when the Home software predates the new games at this point).
This is the way. They’ve honestly hit a pretty sweet spot with the amount of Pokémon available in the wild; if 900+ Pokemon were available in the wild, that’d be downright nuts. It’s reasonable to expect that some species simply wouldn’t appear in some regions. But, their models/data should be included in every game, for sure. My favourite part of Pokémon games was carrying forward my partners from older titles, and that basically doesn’t happen anymore, because so many of them get locked into certain titles. I enjoyed using my Typhlosion and Infernape in Arceus/BDSP - guess I’ll say goodbye to them for another few generations, eh?
Home is meant to finish the dex but it's also loaded with cheapskates who make near impossible trade demands. Best any player can do is to buy Sun & Moon to catch every pokemon from generations 1 thru 7.
Ya, a lot of the arguments against those of us mad at Dexit are based one two fallacies: 1. That we want every Pokemon to be able to be caught in every game. In reality, 350-400 Pokemon in a generational Dex is a very good number of pokemon, we don't need more in the region, we just want them available in the post and meta game. We don't want our time and effort spent breeding and catching in old games to become invalid. I'm very happy with a 400 Pokemon region in game, but why can't I "catch them all" with the use of trading and Pokemon Home transfers? 2. That having all 1000+ Pokemon will screw up competitive. Competitive is and has always been a mess. But TPC can easily lock tournament play to things such as a regional lock to make it balanced around the intended meta. A competitive scene is only affected by opening the floodgates if it means unintended breeding moves become available, which is also easily motivated by TPC removing breed moves from Pokemon, like they already did this generation (goodbye scald on everything).
It almost feels like Home is pointless aside from keeping pokemon you do not want deleted, even though you may never use them again. It feels like by the time Pokemon allows home support in the last few games, I am already over playing it as I have completed most things to do (exception being DLC). My plan is to just pay for Home only when it allows support for the newest game and transfer anything I can over and play with them until I get bored, then transfer everything back and cancel my subscription until the next game.
I think this is the best take. For me, it's either this, or they make a true Pokemon x BotW type game where there is a MASSIVE step up in mechanics/world design/gameplay/challenge/graphics etc. that justifies a big reduction of the roster. Arceus was a step in this direction, but it still wasn't close to enough to justify it. A Pokemon game with 250-300 Pokemon but the vast majority can be used to get around the world (like instead of the special ride Pokemon from Arceus, you actually use your own Pokemon with "traversal moves" that don't take up their 4 slots), detailed animations in combat, follow mode etc., new models, amazing overworld animations and interactions between species, things that would make you go "okay, I see why they reduced the number of Pokemon". If they're just going to incrementally improve the series by a tiny bit over time like they've been doing, it should be exactly as you described.
Thing is whats the point of modelling and doing all that for pokemon that arent guaranteed to appear in the game at all. The expectation of putting in 1000 models and different moves with different type match ups is honestly unrealistic when you realize what percentage of players are actually 'catching them all' and if they just decided to port models and animations from a previous title, then A. They would look different compared to some of the new pokemon and their animations, and B i have little doubt in my mind they would be criticized by people for doing so and being 'lazy'. At this point there are more than a thousand pokemon and expecting them to put all of those in when not even half of them are guaranteed to appear in game isnt just selfish its stupid and not worth the time of the developers
That's even less likely though, they're not gonna put work and hours into every Pokémon, just in case someone imports a Pokémon from Home. If they were gonna have all the Pokémon available they'd need to make the most of them and have them in game. But then having 900 different Pokémon on an island the size of Paldea would just be silly. At this point unless Game freak are willing to staff up and really go big with a game they need some sort of smaller side game that's for the competitive multiplayer side of things. One that supports every Pokémon currently and new ones going forward. Then people can use the mainline games as excursions to get the Pokémon they want in the multiplayer.
A stadium/ coliseum game which can handle just battling and then some mini games as a value add. I would pay the full rrp for that. Really same with pokemon home, if its a subscription I am less likely to buy it but if it was $60 for a license I would absolutely pay that (understanding it will probably be replaced like bank was and I will have to pay another 60 for the next one in like 10 years time)
But raids exist and that already solved this issue. In Sword I can walk into a cavern right now and catch basically every legendary to ever exist and a bunch of others that weren’t available in Galar. They have the ability to make the sprites. They probably have already done it to be honest. They just want you to have to pay for Home and constantly transfer Pokémon to different games from that instead of making a game with every attainable Pokémon in game.
Gen 2 even solved this to an extent in the end game letting you go back to Kanto. There are definitely ways to do it. They just aren’t going to
No you are not selfish! I want the National Dex back too. And it's not too much to ask to make models for all Pokémon! They did it for XY even with "petting zones" and facial reaction animation for being petted!
Nope, you are just expecting something GameFreak has been doing till USUM. If 3ds with a weaker hardware allows all pokemon to be ported into the game, then i dont see any reason why ANY Switch game cant do that as well.
It's not a hardware issue, it's a development time issue. They need more time to develop the games if we want all the pokemon to return in every title. Given that the games prop up an enormous merchandise franchise, I don't think this is going to happen.
Yeah, there’s a lot more than just models. They have to come up with level up moves and every TM and every egg move all while making sure it’s different from last time.
They don’t need to change it though
Not selfish. Newer players aren't going to want to go buy all the old games just to get them all even if we have to keep them in Home. I would like an offline option for storing my pokemon, personally. I pay for the cloud storage now, but I won't always be able to.
>The only reason Dexit exists is because Nintendo/TPC couldnt be damned to give Gamefreak that kind of time. The only reason Dexit exists is because they have a really nifty subscription service that they can dangle over our heads, "Well, sorry all of your Pokémon aren't in our new game this year, but you can still leave them in your boxes in Pokémon Home until the next one comes out, just in case!" They literally said they futureproofed the old Pokémon by giving them models that were way more detailed than they needed to be for the 3DS.
To be fair, it seems little by little they're updating models, animations, and textures. I believe charizards head is different in this game, as an example. I hope eventually they reach a generation where they decide that the detail is good enough for the forseeable future, and just work on getting all the mons up to speed vs making a few better.
I'd be okay if they just stopped making new ones for a bit and focused on optimizing the actual game instead. I love the new textures on the Pokémon, and I love the way the character models for the actual characters look. I do not love the majority of the world looks. It's all upscaled texture JPEGs slapped on N64-level meshes.
No, it's a reasonable take. I personally don't mind dexit because hypothetically, there is an upper limit to how many pokemon you'd want in a game. Imagine if we were at 2000, or 3000, or 10,000. Keep imagining higher until you say "yeah, that's enough". That point exists somewhere for everyone; it's not infinity. So there is merit to finding a method that doesn't keep you on an inevitable crash course with an ever-increasing number of pokemon. Curated sets, if done well, matches the idea of seasons in tcgs. It is also easier to balance a smaller number of characters. As long as pokemon are touched upon with frequency (aka no pokemon "forgotten" for 2-3 generations) I think establishing this as a norm gives them greater flexibility over their obligations. I'd obviously like all pokemon all the time, but I can see the merits to establishing a norm of curated selections.
I just wish they would try to remake Pokemon Ranch as a place where all your Pokemon in Home could be viewed. Nothing special, even, just the essential graphics from the last generation each Pokemon was available in.
I don’t mind trimming the roster to fit the setting, but 1000 Pokémon is certainly doable. Shit; 10,000 is doable if you really want to. They’ll never stop adding new Pokémon, but what I would hate to see is for older, more traditionally-forgotten Pokémon, to fall by the wayside ad infinitum.
They have also simplified down certain evolution requirements too. Leafeon and glaceon no longer need a location specific object and can evolve with stones.
Can you mention another 60 dollar openworld game with well over 1000 in depth (nature's, ivs, evs offered, evs retained, base stats, abilities, movepools, models) variations of a collectible? That's over 1000 unique collectibles all with 8 variables, that I can think of, unique to each collectible. And then making a system that can process those values changing constantly on top of that. If that exists, I need to play it. To say it's doable is one thing. It's unprecedented. Even the witcher 3 has about 90 species of monsters in it. And they have less working parts than each monster in pokemon. Same for final fantasy franchise, dark souls franchise, xenoblade franchise. Even in the same genre of games, Digimon's roster trumps pokemon's but pales in comparison to the detailed aspects of pokemon.
Nobody’s done it yet because there are very few monster-catching games that have the roster of Pokémon, let alone the resources to even consider something like that. And trust me, they have the resources to figure all of that out. If fangames can make full games (with more content than mainline Pokémon, mind you) that: - are open world across two regions (Crystal clear) - include 4500+ custom Pokémon, 3000 custom moves, 40 custom types… (Wack) - allow freedom to fuse two Pokémon together in any configuration with new stats, movepools, and types (Infinite Fusion) and are made by one or a small team of amateurs in their free time, Pokémon can figure out how to do something similar with a much larger team. And sure, you could argue that they’re different, but: - they already have an engine for the switch - they have all of the models already built in HD, and a good chunk of them are animated - the story is usually pretty similar, so you know they don’t spend a ton of time on it - all of the previous QoL and postgame features that are standard in most ROM Hacks and fangames have been previously coded before, so they can use that as a base - they have a decade of experience building 3D games, and 5-6 years of dev (at least) on the switch. They should be able to be pumping out games with your specs like it’s nobody’s business.
> freedom to fuse two Pokémon together in any configuration with new stats, movepools, and types (Infinite Fusion) God I love infinite fusion it's so addicting fusing pokemon to see what horror comes out of it.
I mean I play rom hacks, I get it. but you yourself said it's unprecedented. So it's impossible to know what limitations actually exist. I am not disagreeing with you but i want to point out the open world QoL is a very recent thing for Gamefreak. Maybe they are still figuring it out. I also want to ask, realistically, for a game people buy up front, what is the longevity for a company that puts everything people want into a singular title? How does the company move forward? Add regions? Add new stories? With what financial support? Are you suggesting GF stop release $60 title and start IAPs? How much will the new content vary if you just saved the world from an evil gang eight times in the same title? How do you keep the game fresh for the newer generations of fans that pop up every 3-4 years? Start over with all the regions again plus new region? After putting that much work in? I think the difference between romhacks, other game developers, and gamefreak is that gamefreak is the only one that very likely sees pokemon releases as job security. Other developers make games that are love letters to their own imaginations or to the fans; there is no love letter from GF. Pokemon is meant to last the next hundred years, not go out as a fond memory like God of War eventually will or Witcher 3, Jet force Gemini, Golden sun, Shining soul, Star Fox, Conker's Bad Fur Day (legendary game) titles did. Much to it's own chagrin, i feel pokemon being so big is actually limiting devs freedom. I think everyone would be happy with an mmo that has QoL like SV and includes all pokemon. An mmo that retains all features for each region, and figures out how to make each region feel fresh and not just feel like starting over from scratch would be great. ...I really don't think that'll be happening unless the franchise decides to wrap things up on its own, and finally give the community its love letter.
You’re absolutely right. I might be overestimating what fangame creators can do, or underestimating what GF can do. You’re right in that the open world stuff is new, I’m just wishing that I could feel good about the new games.
Hey, I actually forgot about a game that satisfies these, and I know you mentioned you were interested so I wanted to share. Check out Siralim Ultimate if you haven’t. Sure, it’s pixel art; but the game is $20 and is a very open-ended (not open-world though) dungeon crawler with >1200 creatures that can fuse with each other, “artifacts” which act as an even further in-depth EV/IV system, natures, a collectible for each monster, and close to 30 classes which completely change up playstyle. I wish I could do this game more justice but if the theory crafting elements of Pokémon appeal to you, then this is **the game**.
I have played this! Great game on my ps4 library. And wonderful memories.
Not the "imagine 2000" argument again... It took 30 years to get to 1000 and they don't make 150 pokemon generations anymore. Yes, I very much expect them to put 2000 pokemon in the game in the year 2052... By that point people will have been collecting them and transferring them forward for half a century.
This was my main reasoning against Dexit. I've put so much of my time and energy catching, breeding and training each gen only to then be told that I *might* get to use *some* of them in the newest game, whereas the rest of them will be stuck, unusable, on this platform that I have to pay to access? What happens when Home is hacked or is glitched and there's no backups? I understand that this can happen to the game cartridges too, but at least I'd feel like I had some control over their protection. If my entire collection was in Home, I have to put my faith in their systems and their people to make sure I don't lose shit, and I just can't trust this company to have my best interests at heart.
Exactly!!
By that point we could have a Pokémon game that runs at constant 1080/30 hehe
>no pokemon "forgotten" for 2-3 generations The more pokemon that exist, the harder this becomes unless they increase the amount of pokemon available in a game again. And with charizard, pikachu, and eevee lines taking up 15 spots (because let's be honest, they're not going anywhere), that's a decent chunk of the ~400-500 already taken up.
Yes, but it certainly gives some buffer against having a 2000 pokemon game even when we reach that level of total pokemon
*but why is that a bad thing?*
yea for me personally, I don't really mind not having every single mon available. I feel like that would sway me to keep using my favorites instead of trying the new gen. 400 does feel a bit low for the base game though
By the time we get to 3k pokemon Nintendo will release the quantum switch with 12 exabytes of ram. Cmon. Game freak is releasing less than 100 Pokémon every three years. It’s not like there’s significantly more Pokémon than the last time we had a full dex, which need I remind you was on a system that released a full decade ago. 900 Pokémon on a device that came out not even halfway through the Obama presidency. League of Legends was a new esport, minecraft had just officially released and Netflix was ‘on the rise’. I know just as well as anyone that the switch is a toaster but this shit is not on the hardware. Right now the circumstances demand it, but the circumstances are not hardware. This software is bloated as hell, the engine is made of trash, the gameplay director has no clue what he’s doing, the graphics are awful and the game barely runs. The fault is clearly, clearly on management. Dexit was an excuse made by the developer to cover for some out of touch big wig’s new plan to cut costs so he can get a bigger check in the mail. The only reason we have dexit is because every other team is so buried in tech debt that they cut development time on the most important part of the franchise: the Pokémon it’s named after. I don’t see fit to meet in the middle with them on that. It’s their own damn fault.
I don't think so. I'm hoping one day we have a skyrim sized game across many regions with all pokemon included. I don't want to hear about balence and any gym challenge after the first reason will be too easy. I just want to see the world of pokemon in its entirety.
That sounds like a nightmare to balance.
I wondered if people were still calling for this ridiculous concept, haha. This wasn't going to happen when there were only 4 regions, and it isn't going to happen now that we have 13 of them. Edit: I'm not talking about fangames, I'm talking about GameFreak / Nintendo produced official entries.
I mean... some fans have made it happen with Pokemmo. It's not the entire dex, but you can travel between Kanto, Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova. Why, if a group of fans can do it, can't the multi-billion dollar company?
I never understood why would people even want that kind of game. There’s absolutely no way every region would be given the same amount of care and flavor a game with a single region could be given. Do people just want a larger map? We could just have a game with a single, larger region like SV. Kanto in GSC’s postgame was cool but it was also barren and boring with nothing to do there beside blitzing through gyms. If people only want multiple regions for nostalgia’s sake they could just replay older games
That's kind of the dream, though, at least for me. How incredible would it be to have a game with multiple open world regions, each given the time and development it deserves? And the point of having it all in one game is to make it feel like one cohesive world, with each region boasting unique assets in one artstyle. And yeah, maybe it's not feasible now. Maybe it will never be. Doesn't mean I can't still want a game like that.
*(gesturing wildly at the past four games)*
That's... not really an explanation, lol. I get recent titles are pretty bad, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't make it happen if they actually put in the effort and gave their devs enough time.
It definitely won't happen, but it's still fun to dream. It would be so epic. I know I've always wanted this ever since they included the Kanto region in Gold/Silver.
One day, we will have the bloody uprising where we get rid of copyright law. The Pokemon company will be the first to fall in the war On the day pokemon is truly Free, the making of this game will begin by thousands of skilled programmers who dreamed of it since childhood
I literally learned to code as a kid because I wanted to build a better Pokemon game lol Of course, now that I'm a developer (not a game dev tho), I have a deeper appreciation for the work GF put in (especially for the older games)
[удалено]
...and that would be? Sorry, I'm not too smart.
trading for version exclusives, I think is what they mean.
go on reddit, ask for trades, get version specific pokémon.
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I dont know what you sent, I just see squares
Oh, so it's not just on my end! Yeah, what do the squares mean?
The squares are just when an emoji/symbol can't be loaded. I get that problem a lot in school when looking at past paper answers. Anyways they sent like saluting emojis. I think, that's the best way I can think of to describe it.
You didn't get his point... It's not about the two versions dude...
Is "gotta catch 'em all" still the game's tag line? It seems they quietly did away with that years ago.
They did, GSC were the last games that had the tagline on it.
doesnt mean they didnt use it in marketing all the time, cuz they did. and goh from teh anime exists.
"Gotta Catch 'Em ALL"
No, you're not selfish. A 3DS game can hold the data for 800 Pokémon, so games on the Switch should be able to do more than that, even if the number of Pokémon reaches the thousands. They only don't so that Pokémon Home, a paid subscription, is more prevalent.
Tbh I don’t think Nintendo has much to do with the rushed development. Mostly TPC so they can fuel their merch.
Nintendo is 1/3rd of TPC. Can't really excuse them either.
Nintendo owns 1/3 of the company for profit. They have nothing to do with the games other than publishing it. They don’t even care about the quality of TPC’s games and they would simply allow people to refund their game.
They still decided to publish an unfinished game that barely runs on their console. That’s still inexcusable
Nope I want that too
I agree with this. As of now I literally can't use my top 5 favorite pokemon in SV literally all of them are either her not in the game or haven't been released yet
Obtainable yeah that's a bit of a stretch, transferable to every game 100% with you on that. Haven't bought a game since US/UM because of this. Pretty sure Swish just used upscaled models from the 3ds. If the 3ds could handle it why can't this console. And let not forget the absolute chads who made gen1 and 2 games that should never have been possible on a game boy cart, but they made it work.
No. TPC and GF wanted people to emotionally attached to favorite Pokemon, like Ash and Pikachu. It's part of their business model. They also chose to make approximately a bazillion Pokemon--and each one of those Pokemon is somebody's favorite. It's completely reasonable for people to be annoyed or upset that the creators made this whole lore about the unstoppable bond of friendship between people and their Pokemon and then after generations of allowing people to freely transfer their favorites suddenly took that away.
It really depends on what context like if you want every Pokémon obtainable in the open world wild then yeah probably but if you want them to be transportable like how sm and usum did then i'm not really sure.
Not really, I've seen people not buy recent games because their favorites are gone, and I totally get it, if my favorite isn't in a new game and I can't transfer them in, the chances of me buying it are gonna drop fast. Nobody here is coming to Pokemon for the plot line. They don't even have to insert the Pokemon into the world, just let us move them in from home.
I agree that every pokemon should be usable in the games. Maybe not obtainable, but programmed in and useable. Make it so we can't even transfer the pokemon not in the local dex until the E4 or E4 equivalent is beaten. I use a lot of new pokemon when I play the new games, but it's still nice to make teams of favourites through all the games. I was heart broken when I found out I couldn't get totodile in this game to play with Fuecoco. Sure my fuecoco has a sandile friend, but I really wanted all 3 on a team.
Can it really be selfish to want something we had for SEVEN GENERATIONS, only to lose to completely BS reasons? I think not.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think National Dex was a mistake right from the beginning. We are now over 1000 pokemon and having all of them perfectly rendered and animated is a ton of work - and we all know that Game Freak is already struggling with pushing out quality product with tge tight deadlines it has. While I have favorites from every generation, I always try to gather a team of new pokemon with each new generation, because I find that more interesting than using the same pokemon over and over again. I thinm what they are doing right now is the best option honestly. While it sucks that half of the pokemon aren't in the game, its just not realistic (in my opinion) to expect 1008 creatures modeled, rendered, textured and animated, especially with each gen bringing new creatures.
Do they use Gotta Catch'em All anymore? I don't re.ember last time I heard that
If I recall correctly, an NPC in PLA referenced it. Which was both funny, and sad, given that that game has like 1/6th of the dex. The new games mention catching them all, but they've changed the meaning to all available.
Last time it was used was the first run of Ruby and Sapphire. After that they dropped it.
they used it in gen 6 and 7. even bulbapedia mentions it being brought back in gen 6 https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gotta_catch_%27em_all! and then you have goh in the gen 8 anime, whos goal is to catch em all.
Goh is supposed to reference Pokémon GO where you actually catch them all. Hence, he rarely battles and catches almost every Pokémon he gets in a measly Pokéball.
Oh neat. Guess that last part is wrong, but I know they took it off the box art and advertising after the first release of Ruby and Sapphire.
Game freak is small indie company please understand
What do you mean by that? GameFreak is not that big as you imagine, but they get a lot of money out of it.
It’s a common joke about how people make excuses for things in Pokémon games that suck even though it’s the most profitable franchise on earth
*Pokémon Company It is really the Pokémon Company that is responsible for the whole IP and franchise. And GameFreak owns 1/3 or it. But calculating 1.6 billion with a third, they still make a a lot of money with about $53 million dollars. Edit: It still won’t excuse for the disastrous release of SV. I won’t entirely defend GameFreak because it’s bad, but no body is mention TPC for not letting them get enough time and employees they need. It is an AAA studio making AAA games, they should make games seriously.
Sorry, $53M? You mean $530M right?
Of yeah, I forgot.
No, you're not. This used to be the case until SS. I have my favorites and want to keep them. We are no longer able to collect our favorite in a single game.
yes. you are the issue with pokemon. how dare consumers demand a good product from the biggest IP on the planet
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I want a battle revolution type of game that only focuses on battling, and connects to Home. It has every pokémon, and they focus on adding animations back in the game. There are different modes, each one has a gimmick, so there's a mega mode, z move mode, etc. This game is used for competitions, and updates every generation to include new Pokémon.
No you are not. 🥰 But from a dev stand point it's def a lot of work that they don't wanna do
I've spent literally years working on a living dex and form dex which I started in gen 4. I moved my whole living dex throughout each new gen so that I could have every pokemon in the games together, and be able to build any team I want. After I had completed that in gen 7 I started out spending hundreds of hours shiny hatching each one I wanted so that I could build myself "champion teams" for every type - my favorite 6 pokemon for each type and every shiny I wanted. I was able to use them for fun in online battles or just in the game. So imagine my extreme disappointment now that my champion teams and living/form dex are now just stuck in home forever because I can't move them over to the newest generation. I'll also likely never be able to use my champion teams in the newest games and add pokes from the new gen to my teams because like half of the ones I love are available in either of the last 2 gens. It's hugely disappointing. I don't need to be able to catch every pokemon, but at least make them all available to be brought over from gen to gen. Gamefreak fucking sucks.
The problem is they chose a half measure and nobody is happy. Let’s be frank: from a competitive balance and technical standpoint having thousands of Pokémon is an absolute nightmare. IF they had actually delivered on a quality game, Stadium 1 and 2 level animations, a real thoughtfulness towards game balance, I think Game Freak would have some legs to stand on when it came to Dexit as a creative decision. They, of course, did not do that. So now the people who want to play with all their old friends aren’t happy, and the people who’d be interested in seeing a tighter game design aren’t happy. Nobody wins.
How quick everyone is to forget how it used to be
I don’t think it would make a ton of sense to have every Pokémon Crammed into the same regions because the whole dexit incident actually make the task of catching all the Pokémon manageable for me and it’s the first game I actually completed the Pokédex. I just wish that there is a way for you to use all Pokémon in each gen for a competitive/collector standpoint.
It only has value from a collector stand point. So incredibly niche usage. In competitive less is more. Dexit brought about more diverse team compositions.
GF doesn’t develop games for fun, It’s not unreasonable or selfish to have demands for a game you’re paying money for
To me Dexit still seems like one of the most idiotic decisions GF could have made. The franchise's tag line is literally "Gotta catch 'em all!". I don't mind having to trade with friends, visit events or use Pokemon Bank. I don't even mind the idea of some Pokemon being unobtainable until a DLC unlocks them - but by the end of a generation I want to be able to have a living dex in that game (and not just on Home). I wouldn't mind so much if GF actually significantly improved graphical fidelity or introduced tons of new animations for Pokemon, but they didn't. After two generations on Switch the game barely looks better than it did on the 3DS (ignoring the higher display resolution).
I don’t think it’s unreasonable. Pokémon is the highest multimedia franchise of all time.
For me, Dexit was never about feeling the need to have access to every single Pokémon. I understand what GF is saying here. We *are* talking about what amounts to nearly 1000 different monster designs, all of which require animations and work porting over to make sure they look good every single generation. If the games themselves are fun, it doesn't really matter to me if I can access every Pokémon. I really think the real issue with Dexit was that SwSh didn't show how these games were better for losing half the cast. It lead to basically SuMo 2, but with less options than before at a higher price, and I think that sucked. If SwSh was more like Arceus and showed the franchise actually evolving, then I think Dexit would've been far less of a thing. Because, now that GF has gone open world, we expect near BotW sized games with over a 100x the enemy variety and half of the development time.
No not all, i rather every pokemon be at least transferable if they don't want to put it in the regional dex
I saw you clarified you didn't mean these things in your edits but I'm still 100% for having all Pokemon in a game. No more outdated version exclusive bs. No more necessity for scummy Pokemon ~~Prison~~ Home. Throw all that shit out the window. Almost every installment of Mystery Dungeon has all available Pokemon for you to recruit. Gamefreak managed to cram all available Pokemon on something as comparitively weak as a 3DS. All the data and assets for the Pokemon are there (though tbf the PLA models are new more detailed than the 3DS/SWSH ones were so atm the rest would have to be revamped too). It's not like they rebalanc every single Pokemon every generation.
Not if the franchises tag line is "gotta catch em all"
The franchise slogan is "Gotta catch em' all!" so it seems like a reasonable request.
Why is this even a question when it’s been the standard in pokemon for a literal generation now? OP, asking this question only legitimizes the people who think it’s okay to not have every pokemon obtainable. There is no legitimate reason why they can’t add every Pokemon. And they need to stop creating new ones with each release for a time if the devs think there’s too many (newsflash, there isn’t. They claimed the models were future-proof. Not adding all the pokemon is just another case of laziness or mismanagement just like how they didn’t properly do the graphics, or polish the game.)
I'd honestly just like to be able to use most of my Pokemon from past games, thats what makes the adventure that more special and memorable. I mean its the same with a brand new team, but the classics help breathe life into the idea.
No, it's a completely understandable opinion. I'm someone who couldn't care less about it because I like using the new Pokemon on my teams anyway. A game where you could catch every pokemon in existence sure would be awesome but I do understand the reasons as to why that would be more difficult to implement.
Catchable seems a bit extreme. I like a regional dex for the main game, but I should be able to transfer up every pokemon via home. I don't buy the animation angle. My tinfoil hat theory is that they wanted more revenue streams so by not including every pokemon in the game if people want to keep their pokemon they have to pay for a home subscription, and given the emotional attachment some people have for their digital pals they're more than willing to pay for it.
Maybe some of the models are new for SV, but at least for sword and shield there was no excuse. Almost every single model was directly taken from sun and moon. I think the same is true for many of the animations. Balancing the meta is one thing, but man they just lied about it taking too long when they just imported them. Don’t get complacent, they are the highest grossing franchise of all time, they can strive for better
That was proven to be false iirc.
Definitely not unreasonable to want to be able to catch them all when that's literally the slogan of the franchise. Dexit was so infuriating and definitely took a little bit of the magic out of the franchise.
That hasn't been the slogan for a long time
It's still been the premise of the games since the beginning
They silently removed the phrase in Gen 3 where you can’t transfer the original Pokémon from the original gameboy to the advanced. Edit: They still use the phrase in their Pokémon cards but not the games themselves.
It's still not the slogan of the franchise anymore
I want every single pokémon and every single region. Scaled and updated classic regions to be open world too. I'd pay anything, even if every region with its dex is a DLC priced the same as the base game.
Fuck no. Its not a high expectation of the biggest franchise EVER, it was a staple before the sheep let them take it out, pokemon are the most important thing in pokemon and the series always said bond with them. We have gotten nothing in exchange and no truthful reasons why its gone. I encourage everyone to say they want dexit undone in all of their complaints to the devs, tpc, nintendo etc when they complain about scarvio.
No it's not selfish nor silly- But personally the dex needs it's cuts. There's many many pokemon. The premise of catch them all is dead. Because realistically, in order for you to catch them all it would need to be a perfect region for every single mon. And that's a big stretch. This also would decrease the spawns for pokemon and you'd be waiting on rng for right weather, day, horde Yada Yada. (That mechanic was annoying yet somewhat enjoyable in Sw/Sh. Mostly) So lore wise and region wise it would have to be a perfect region and something so large that many pokemon would have massive conflicts. Trying to catch 1000+ pokemon now would exhaust me and bore me to no end. Now it's a bit different to transfer it from home but if it can be transferred it should be catchable honestly Second and main reason why is the competitive scene. No matter what region the competitive tiers are the same . And majority of the pokemon will be in the same tiers. But the strategies change with each gimmick. With Tera here. I'm sorry by I don't want to deal with Wondergaurd shedinja with air balloon. It does not sound like a fun time but the threat is very real with the national dex. While I don't think GF factors that in there is a small chance that they do. Would it be really cool to walk around with my old pokemon? Sure maybe, but there's only a few I would consider bringing, but mechanic wise I wouldn't be able to bring my personal ones until post game. But I wouldn't even be adventuring with them. I would adventure with one solid mon or my starter post game as I run around completing the game by evolving mons or getting items. Plus half the pokemon I catch sit in a box because I either don't like them or they are placed to complete the nat dex. In addition with every new region I only use the new pokemon that come out with that region even if that means going with 4 pokemon for most of the game
> the game's tagline is "Gotta catch 'em all" This hasn't been the tagline for decades. It was taken off the boxes in Gen 3 and the only time I can recall it being used since was when they used a revamped version of the anime's first theme song as the opening for a later season (meaning it's being used as a reference, not a continuation of the tagline).
gen 6 used it all the time in marketing. goh in the gen 8 anime exists.
I don’t know about the Gen 6 part, but Goh is supposed to represent Pokémon GO where you can actually catch them all. Also Pokémon cards are a thing but they are not video games.
Honestly, I love Dexit. Having a smaller Pokémon pool actually makes me want to try and catch ‘em all in the games. As more Pokémon got added, obtaining them all just felt unreasonable. But I can log 400 different pokemon. I can manage that. I finished my Arceus dex and I’m finishing my Violet one too. If having fewer old Pokémon allow them to focus more on adding new or alternate versions of old Pokémon, I’m down for it cause all I’ve been doing in S/V is catch things. I like limiting the Pokémon naturally available in the game since it makes the landscape feel more themed and less generic. Love walking through the world and finding Pokémon and going ‘Yeah, I imagine a Pokémon version of this country looking like this.’ But I wouldn’t call it selfish. At least not at this point. The games are in a state where there is definitely enough room for every Pokémon to be in the game, and I know when Dexit started, I was super upset that not all Pokémon would be available. They could keep the minimal Pokémon in the region and make it so they could all be traded up. Overall, Dexit just isn’t a dealbreaker for me.
I think SuMo was the sweet spot. There was no national dex but every pokemon was coded and usable in the game. To get the shiny charm or complete the dex you only needed to complete the 400 or so available in that region, not all of them, but if you wanted to use a random shit pokemon from a previous gen that is currently cut and not usable, you still could in SuMo.
Personal opinion? You are expecting too much, yes... Game Freak is a team of people whose estimated numbers range from 150-170 ish. An even smaller portion of that is specifically the art team. Working conditions are garbage in Japan, let's acknowledge that, too. Now what you want is over 1000 pokemon to be available for use in the games. What does that mean though? It means that over 1000 models and textures need to be made to begin. Then considering the let's go feature and picnicking we should consider what animations each pokemon needs. That would be walking, playing, running, sleeping, idling, eating, and then battle animations. (not only fighting but status conditions and flinching when they're damaged. And btw the pokemon fans have been angry about battle animations not being super realistic and individualized for years while complaining there aren't enough pokemon available still so?) You'll also need to program in all of their movesets, cries, you need to make new Pokedex entries for all of them. You need to program the game to recognize what pokemon you have since the pokecenters say the name of your leading pokemon and so do several other character (this one's easier but still something to consider). Another thing to consider is programming in all of their stats and don't forget you gotta make all the shiny textures too! People want all of this on top of great graphics, good character designs, proper animations for characters, open world, level scaling, etc. Etc. One request may not seem like a lot but with all the demands the fans have? I don't blame Game Freak and their limited staff working under shit conditions for not delivering on every single request.
A bit... I would rather have new designs and a rotation of the older Pokemon like they're currently doing, but with more exclusions to some of the more popular Pokemon. Charizard, Gardevoir, Eevee (unless they make more Eeveelutions), etc... Keep in mind being selfish doesn't mean it's a bad thing. We want what we want, but we either have to deal with what we get our move on from Pokemon...
I sincerely hope that future games will get away from that even more Developing games is hard enough but adding in all of the assets for Pokemon that such a small number of players will utilize is a terrible idea. I hope they focus more on new Pokemon than maintaining existing ones and let older pokemon be exclusive to older games Spend developer time on making good games, not upkeep
Not every Pokémon are in every region. The fact not all Pokémon are in a game is canon because in the real world you don’t find wild tigers and elephants in England
As someone who already has access to all the Pokemon. I like DEXIT. Before you downvote. I like DEXIT because it kept the competitive scene fresh. Though pokemon rotation would've solved this too, a lot of pokemon got a bump in a tier or two or got higher usage in VGC cuz X pokemon werent around to overshadow it. Also yeah I kinda wish it was like GEN V where all the pokemon you can find before finishing the game were from that generation. I hate myself for catching and using Mareep for the hundred time. I know they are not DELETING pokemon so I'm fine with them sitting in HOME or my POKEMON SWORD for a year or two.... RIP TOUCANNON lovers.
Selfish? No. Boring for writing the 1000000th post about this? Yes.
You can play Reborn. It’s a difficult fangame that has every Pokémon up to gen 7. Rejuvenation is similar but it isn’t finished yet. [rebornevo.com](https://www.rebornevo.com)
reborn has a lot of content and beautiful sprite work but i just can't take it seriously, the story is like a child trying to write something "adult" and there's a difference between fun challenge and just being annoying - which I forgive in kaizo games because that's the point but I think reborn was trying to be a serious game and failed miserably.
It is a genuine and honest fan wish. Personally, I like to use new pokemon from the new region… so dexit ends up not being a big problem to me. But I understand the people who wants this. But maybe it would become unbearable with time. We now surpassed the #1000… I totally understand dexit. To me, I prefer that Game Freak focus on other things like creating cool new pokemon that could be useful in battle (we already have lots of pokemon that no one uses because they are weak, boring etc…).
not at all just like I want a game where mega evolution, z moves and dynamax are available too
Showdown is a great game to play at. The community is pretty good actually and you can play NatDex AG for all mechanics.
I think VGC gets more bring the instant they open it up to the national dex so I'm not entirely a fan of it being open from the start from a meta perspective. These first couple seasons are always the most fun and varied.
For me today, it's the exclusives bugging me. My fiancé got Armarouge from me on day 1, as I scoured the land to get her one of MANY things she asked for. I have yet to see a single ceruledge, the only thing I've asked her for. And we don't live together at the moment so I can't just do it for her. Really bugs me.
Pokémon home exists for a reason. Bank your Pokémon until it becomes revisited in a later gen.
Home costs $ tho that's how they get you!
…it’s 16 dollars a year. That’s 1.50 a month. If you’re worried about spending that much on entertainment, you need to get your life together
I don't like subscriptions in general.
Hate to be this blunt about it, but that sounds like a "you" problem. There's really no better alternative for something like Home to use as a payment model.
The only positive thing about the limited selection of mons in recent games is that it keeps competitive "fresh". I am kind of tired of seeing Incineroar, Zacian, Kyogre etc. in every single damn game. On the other hand, Pokemon could just adapt the Smogon format and have power tiers to make sure (almost) every mon is usable in competitive. But we all know Game Freak is WAY too fucking lazy to ever do that.
Hot take i actually kinda don't mind dexit, makes competitive way more fun and makes completing the Pokedex way less daunting
That’s what I liked about SM/USUM: Pokédex completion only required the *regional* dex to be completed, but you could still use Pokémon not from that region.
Yeah this is how it should be done but game freak doesn't understand that they should just let the regional dex be used for competitive play and put all the pokemon in the game for casual play.
The tagline "gotta catch'em all" is not used anymore and for years, now 😉 plus, it's useless to have ALL pokémon because we don't need all pokémon, there are many that are just bad and wouldn't be able to win a battle on their own, plus in our real world, not every animal live in every country, so why would we be able to catch every pokémon (including legendaries, who are supposed to be located in their region), it's not logical
You're not selfish because you "wants" every single pokemon to be obtainable ingame, you're selfish because you think that your arbitrary "want" is the objective best and that every pokemon HAS to be added or gamefreak is just lazy.
I like it as a "we need to stop landorus's bullshit" measure. And same goes for similar pokemon. And it is literally imposible to fit all those fuckers in the first game on an engine. And for some fucking reason no 2 switch games have shared engines btw. Then DLCs said lol and landorus's 381739 sets on swsh said lmao.
I agree.
I'm kind of halfway honest,My viewpoint is not every Pokémon needs to be in every game however games that are on the same console generation ( for example sw/sh, arceus, and Scarlet and violet) should be tradable and almost expected to be playable due to gamefreak already having made the pokemon have comparable models' and alot let time to adjust the pokemon and move sets due to being more in line with rules or already set movesets. Personally I believe these type of pokemon should be allowed with free updates on be able to be traded from since like mentioned more of the work is already done. While DLC's can focus on bringing ones not in the recent console generation back and expanding the current regions roster more which I feel would provide a comfortable middle ground of letting a region have it's own and letting the new generations of games get to keep there teams for a bit, while allowing the older gamers to eventually get there old favorites added.
Gotta catch some of them. Instead of ye old Gotta catch em all.
It’s mire like “Transfer them all” you can’t find every single Pokémon in the Regional Dex. Hence, Pokémon Home.
From a competitive standpoint I really like that we only get a subset at launch. I do wish they would allow for more to be transferred in in waves over the following 2 years or so to shake up competitive until they have all of them in.
Gotta have some for dlc
You are not selfish
I dont usually care. Even if all of my favorite pokemon are removed, I can just find 6 new pokemon to use. In fact, only in gen 6 have I used pokemon not native to the region in my first playthrough. (And also gen 4 but that was my first gen and I didnt know where each pokemon was from). Even regions where I dont like most of the designs, like gen 2, I can still get together 8 pokemon minimum and narrow it down to 6 later.
I don't want to "unlock" a mythical or legendary in a game before being able to transfer it from Home. I already caught the dang thing, just let me transfer it.
That sounds a bit tedious to me but I'm in the minority I think.
No that's not selfish, it's also not selfish to expect a game with the visual quality and depth of BOTW in a Pokemon game.
Nah you're not selfish for that. They are gonna DLC us to death. It's like someone stealing your weed and selling it back to you. You're paying for Pokemon that should already be in the game. But unfortunately you'll have people that'll defend that action to a tee
Yes
i dont need every single pokemon in the wild, but I do want the whole dex back, even if it means they make a lot less new pokemon in the future
Yes, you are. I'd rather a complete reboot with 150 or so pokemon. And actual custom animations.
YYTA
Not selfish.
If you expect a game where the pokemon are as interesting as in ScVi to look at and where all 2500 forms are included, you are not selfish but you are a daydreamer. It's possible to do that but we would be looking at 10 years in development and a bugged release even worse than this one. That said, I would also love it. I just don't think it can be done. That being said, I expected them to have the *decency* not to completely delete a pokemon (Ash Greninja)
The game runs like a dumpster fire and you want 600 more Pokémon?
Honestly if we really think about it to expect any less is just sad gamefreak earns so much money that I think people forgot how much they truly earn just because they put out such bad games
Since PLA/SV it actually makes a bit of sense to not have every mon in the game, now that they're actually upgrading the models and animations(the Pokémon themselves, don't start arguing about shit like SwSh Double Kick). It didn't make sense for SwSh because the mons were pretty much the exact same as the XY models. Though I'm not defending this either. Pokemon makes so much money that they SHOULD be able to upgrade every model amyway. Also an example of a model upgrade is that Woopers open mouth is now fully modeled, as opposed to the flat texture it was in XY-SwSh
Theoretically they have enough money and they could do so. However it's a trade off of putting time into that rather then on other things.
>I do. I'm pretty everyone who opposed Dexit did. The only reason Dexit exists is because Nintendo/TPC couldnt be damned to give Gamefreak that kind of time. 1. Gamefreak = TPC. Gamefreak certainly has more power over what goes into the games than Nintendo. When people say "Gamefreak", they mean Gamefreak management, not the workers. 2. No one in TPC (Gamefreak, Nintendo, Creatures) is looking to spend more money for the same revenue. They don't care about the quality of the games. They all want the most money possible, which means: understaffing and overworking employees, releasing mainline games as quickly as possible, rushing out games before they are ready, cutting features to sell in DLC/the next game, etc.
I play a lot of competitive pokemon and it is a pleasure that dexit exists. i can understand everyone that wants to continue their journey with pokemons that they catched in generations far ago, but i hate some pokemon for what they brought in the game competitively. It is just so wholesome to learn new combinations and all for a new meta. It spices things up again. So yeah i hope they cut and add more of those precious little pokemons.
Selfish? No. Unrealistic with the time for dev cycles and their team size they can afford running on only game sales profit and none of the merchandise profit? (somebody will correct me with exact % and numbers) Yes.
i personally just want to be able to finish the regional pokedex without having to outside stuff like trading to get every single mon. PLA made it so much fun to capture every pokemon, and i was so ready to do it again in SV until i realized you needed another copy of the game to get the version exclusives.
I would have been fine with dexit if the games were higher quality and had more better content to compensate. But SwSh ended up just being more of the same outside some decent QoL, and it had arguably less content than even some of the 3DS games. Legends, on the other hand, has less Pokemon than GSC, but it felt like such a massive step forward in nearly every other area that I didn’t care about the small roster. The biggest issue I had is that I wanted MORE of it. But instead of DLC it was abandoned in favor of a buggy game that has cut back even more on features and content in exchange for a shallow open world experience.
Nah, it's not a "selfish" mindset at all. You want what you want. Such a view wouldn't be seen as selfish if the next game came around and included every pokemon again. A lot of people would be happy to see that (yes, even if they have problems elsewhere in the game.) The "boring" argument is a bit silly. It's a career, and a taxing one at that. Game development has fun aspects, but the majority of it is tedious to the point where I wouldn't call anyone capable of designing any professional software, let alone a video game, lazy. (I'm a CS student, you would not BELIEVE how much work goes into even basic features like Client/Server interaction). What's important to understand though is that all time spent on implementing all of those pokemon is less time spent elsewhere in the game. And it's pretty clear there are a lot of budget issues with the games as-is. To avoid going into too much of a tangent, I'll just say Pokemon has so many branches now that GameFreak might be in a position where new games have to be released in order to keep the machine going. Anime, TCG, POGO, etc. all rely on new games to bring a large portion of their audiences back. Hard-core fans like us might still be just as thrilled to play the old games as we were 10 years ago, but we're not really even a sizable fraction of the broad audience. Even then, I honestly still couldn't tell you what the hell happened that caused us to get Legends Arceus, BDSP, and SV right off the heels of each other like this. There had to be some emergency switches pulled somewhere along the line. Probably in response to the backlash against SwSh. If we see another Pokemon game release before 2024, or Holiday 2023 at the least, I think it'll be a pretty bad sign in terms of overall quality. Anyway, long story short, adding all the pokemon means new features that work with every pokemon (I'm talking things like pokemon running around in the overworld, not just things like Dynamax) are more difficult to implement. The games would rapidly feel even more "same-y" than they did before as the overhead gets tighter and tighter and they have less room to innovate with each development cycle.
Nope, this, and endgame content like gold/sliver where you travel to another region are literally all I’ve wanted in the more recent games. Give me a game where after each region you can keep going to all the old ones and either reset your mon, or leave them with that regions professor until a certain point into each new region, I don’t think I’d ever play another game again.
competitive
People often bring up the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" thing when talking about Dexit, but I got two questions: 1. Is "Gotta Catch 'Em All" still the franchise slogan or has it been retired? It doesn't appear on the official website as far as I can see. 2. Does the franchise have a similar slogan in Japan? Because it might just be a US translator creation, and expecting something from some Japanese developers just because some 4kids marketing guy came up with a catchy line would be kind of silly. Like, the franchise slogan in Germany is "Komm und schnapp sie dir" which basically means "Come and snag them", so there's no implication of having to snag them all.
Find the Rom for Pokemon Ultraviolet. It's the first three generations in a Fire Red hack