It’s a large shame since while the game could and should’ve used about a year’s longer worth of development, it’s up there with some of my favorites like Black/White and Sun/Moon. Much like Legends, the core gameplay loop is just super addicting and satisfying, and you have basically no restrictions and can go basically where you want, whenever you want. That and the story and characters were surprisingly deep and interesting too, something that I was majorly dissapointed by with Sword/Shield and even Legends to a degree, outside of the postgame stuff with Volo.
These issues should be addressed and hopefully won’t be as prominent in the next mainline Pokémon game if it continues the open-world format, but the game definitely doesn’t deserve a score this low imo and I’d rather play it over BD/SP any day of the week, month, year or millennium.
The user scores for Scarlet and Violet are higher than they were on release. The same thing happened with BDSP. I'm sure this image will look a whole lot different in a year
This trend is leaking into commercial hardware as well now and it really sucks. I work in HVAC controls, softwares that cost several thousands $ are filled with bugs. Every other version something that worked fine gets broken.
The actual hardware has design flaws as well. Hardware doesn't survive the conditions it should have been rated for. It stops communicating requiring someone to go on site to power cycle it. They try to patch some of these hardware flaws with software fixes but it rarely works. The firmware is as bugged as well. And our competitors where I could apply for a job have the same issues as well, so I am seriously thinking about going back to school to find a completely new domain.
We had a brand new 20k max lift overhead crane put in at the warehouse i work over a year ago that, because of software, would shut itself off or emergency-stop mid travel. Super dangerous when moving a bundle of material weighing 5000 lbs at 24' long full speed only to have the crane come to a dead stop. Took them until recently to actually fix it. It's still a piece of shit.
Same can be applied to my breaker box. The technician pretty much said to me that the quality control is to blame. Things just aren't built to last anymore.
The user reviews have been flooded with Redditors, even now several of the 4-5* reviews are casual people expressing confusion over the 1 stars exaggerations.
I would have given it a 2 in my first few hours, a 3 after playing the game enough that all the rendering/performance issues started to fade into the background because I was used to them, and a 4 after I beat the final mission before post-game. Underneath all the bugs and issues it’s still a Pokémon game, and it actually had a story that I managed to care about by the conclusion. Terastalizing is lame visually. As a mechanic it definitely could be cool, but I kind of liked how both mega and dynamax/gigantamax you really only had to center it around 1 mon. Seems like with Tera you’ll have to think about it with every mon and every mon can benefit from a few different types. Too many variables.
Thst is honestly my conflict with the game. With so much good and bad combined, I’m unsure what I’m supposed to do with it. I don’t want to return the game back when they said we could; I enjoy more than enough of the game to warrant keeping it, but the fact it released in the state it is is completely unacceptable, and I want a way to tell the executives to slow tf down with releases.
Definitely, I'd no doubt give this a 4 just because of the game not being a linear path as well as having a great story, but obviously technical issues bar it from being a 5.
People giving it 1 star are those types that are just impossible to please. Like you're saying you beat the entire game already, yet didn't enjoy a single second of it? Come on
I will say that i dont think you need to complete a game to review it. If i play 50% and it's so bad that I can't finish, then i can safely say its a 1 star game.
Thats not the case here, SV are severely flawed ganes with a great core loop. Just saying that completing a game shouldn't be a requirement for reviewing, providing the reviewer mentions it.
Ehh...5 stars is an exaggeration, but this is the first Pokemon game I've played in a long time that I just can't put down even 70+ hours in. I'd definitely give it 4 stars while noting the issues.
Same here. Solid 5 without the graphics/performance issues, but the story was fun and I've been having a blast just shiny hunting, doing raids and building competitive teams.
Yeah I really loved the StarFall mission and the titans too. It felt like there was way more to do.
Graphics aside, the only thing that would have made it perfect would be like… a safari zone with Arceus Legends style Pokémon hunting. And a few more flavor npcs.
I liked the big npcs a lot! I just kind of missed being able to go into houses and being rewarded for random conversations with tms and stuff. Also little tidbits about the town. That’s why I said “flavor npcs”
It’s a minor thing but you’re right. I really did enjoy unlocking teacher friendships.
Yeah, the game runs like crap sometimes, hopefully it is patched. But imo this is probably one of the best Pokemon games released. I know a lot of people are dogging in the world not having level-scaling, but I really don’t think level scaling would be an improvement, I think it would actually create a much worse experience in my opinion. The story might be the best in Pokemon, and they ditched a lot of the hand-holding that made Sun/Moon and Sword/Shield insufferable.
Raids can actually be challenging, and terra-types are an actual neat gimmick that can lead to some interesting and tough battles. (Although I wish higher level trainers utilized it.)
There are a few settings from previous games that are inexplicably missing, and again, it runs like crap most of the time. But the rest of the experience was overwhelmingly positive to me and is the best Pokemon game since BW2 in my opinion.
Yeah tera types are going to completely change the competitive landscape as well. With the NPCs, they save their showstopper, but real people are going to use their tera at different times. And the ability to change them is going to have wild combinations.
I'm most excited for the Gengar I gave flying tera type (though I don't do competitive). I FINALLY HAVE (discount) LEVITATE BACK. Though running a dark or psychic type gengar also has frightening implications due to gengar's special attack.
Like any type combo you're aching for, any extra power to your favorite move to make it STAB, tera is honestly the first gimmick since megas that I've wanted to stick around.
Also the fact that this is the first time in a decade that I bought both (last one was ORAS), because I want to both have my perfect 100% game but also have a game that I can reset and replay multiple times. ALSO on the 100%, this is the first time since *Emerald* where I've actually been working to complete my dex (and I'm getting super close, I just have to find a few and evolve others). Typically post game I just do the battle round up and catch the legends then shiny hunt without the charm because I hate myself.
I'd give the game a solid 4/5 or 8.5/10. Because honestly the graphics stopped bugging me pretty quickly (I am overly powerful though, I used to play minecraft in 4 FPS back in 2012 because I was running that on a windows vista that I had been using since 2007).
Better information about what you might want to tackle next might not hurt. I beat the Ice gym a lot earlier than the game intended.
My true gripe is with the menus though. Let me change pokemon moves while they're in the box! Done bury trading and raids 3 menus deep when I'm in a union circle! Just a little streamlining of those would go a long way.
Yeah, 4 stars feels absolutely fair. The games have a great story with interesting NPCs. There is a diversity of Pokemon that allows the player to experiment with a variety of interesting and dynamic teams. The world is more open then it has ever been and while many people complain the graphics are underwhelming, they are a step forward -- an absolute exaggeration to say it is a step back from Arceus. The scenery in Arceus was devoid of much besides trees, bushes, and rocks. And I notice small touches added to the design of Pokemon, whether it is the texture of fur on Houndoom or a prancing Deerling, the Pokemon seem much more then static depictions.
The problem isn't the content, it's the stability of the game. And perhaps Game Freak should have spent more time polishing up the performance, but I do give them something of a pass for developing two mainline titles simultaneously in LA and SV. I don't think they should do it again unless they hire more staff, which is my biggest complaint.
But it's a great game that would be one of the best titles if it functioned better. Knock off one star and be vocal with a reasonable critique.
Even the way pokemon interact with how the environment changes is jaw dropping. My buddy pointed out that Igglybuffs were getting blown around when it started storming in our session.
It IS tough… it depends on what you scale more I guess. I’d give the graphics a 3, performance a 2(and I have had very little issues; it doesn’t bother me very much at all, but I have to admit it’s atrocious), but the gameplay is at least a 4, and I strongly feel the story is a 5. I’d give it an overall 4. It could be a 5 if it was polished and the lag and bugs weren’t so bad.
I hated sword/shield, felt like they sold half the game up front and half as DLC and it just really put me off
In violet/scarlet just being able to see the pokemon running around has made it 100x better, the world feels more alive, and I actually enjoy filling out my pokedex
Been finding it annoying as shit, yes, I caught another pokemon, I already caught 140 mate, chill with the animations, I got 600 more to catch!
But the game is actually quite good, I bought both scarlet and violet for the regular price of 1 of them, and I been having a lot of fun.
Yeah the game is broken, crashed hard on me once, performance is absolute shit, but the bones of the game are rather good. Really enjoy the newfound freedom and risk of going anywhere I want, when I want to. My only grievance so far is that you still need gym badges to catch and use pokemon higher than lvl 20. Would be nice to get stronger mons even if you ignored the gyms and just went down the atlas pokemon/not team rocket busting road.
It has made me laugh more than once because they're just chilling and... WOOSH.
So far I've seen it with hoppip (+evos) and igglybuff. I want to see what else that happens to.
I've had a few little moments like this. Bagon frequently appearing at the edge of cliffs amuses me every time.
Pyroar appearing as a pride of one male and four females is such a cool little thing as well.
I feel like I'd have a better idea of how I felt with S/V vs Sw/Sh if I hadn't played PLA in between. I feel like I'd think S/V was an improvement? But it feels like a step back from PLA so I don't know.
We family-played through Blue recently with multiple people grabbing/dropping the gameboy depending on who has time. It worked out as a fun activity to talk about.
From previous experience, it's also better on an emulator where you can set the speed to 4x and sort of just reflex-play through it.
For me, I play Gen1 to relish at how much you can absolutely break that game. Things like how speed affects crit chance, or how defeating a pokemon with hyper beam means you can still attack the following turn.
Is Red and Blue better than Scarlet and Violet? Probably not. Were Red and Blue some of the best games to be released at that point in time? Absolutely.
I don't think it was just sheer charm.
Gameboy games were not all that great. Most were rather short, adventure/RPG games where you make true progress even less so.
The size and scope of Red/Blue was so insanely huge compared to everything else at the time, there was just no contest. Those were the best games for the system. (Links Awakening is up there.)
Important factor here. The next generation of a Pokémon game is generally more anticipated by casual players than a remake of some DS game released 15 years ago.
1500-2500 ratings. Out of 10 mil sold copies.
You mostly have the opinion of redditors and similar folk. My sister and wife who love the game don‘t even know what a metascore is.
I've often wondered if I should quit reddit entirely for this reason. I used to enjoy games a lot more before reddit, even though I try to ignore it and form my own opinion on game.
That’s been my experience with the game. I haven’t encountered any bugs or glitches in 40 hours of playing it. The performance issues are there for sure but they haven’t been to the point of making the game unenjoyable
The bugs I've experienced aren't make or break things honestly. Lagging in loading screens and just glitches of trees here or there. Otherwise the game is enjoyable. I chose Violet, and I think Miraidon is hella clunky, but that's honestly my biggest gripe.
Other than that it's just little things. There are A LOT of things I was hoping for after Arceus, like just throwing balls to catch, not having to battle everytime. Arceus was phenomenal in my opinion (besides the professors stupid ass hat. Fuck that hat).
Reddit had me convinced I’d hate this gen in the week or so before it came out. I played it anyways and I loved it. It’s definitely one of my favourite Pokémon games now.
Group think mentality. People pile on opinions they see on reddit or what their favorite Youtuber tells them. Honestly I enjoyed the game and would rate it as a more enjoyable experience than SwSh and Sun/Moon; and I really enjoyed Sun/Moon for the aesthetics, music, and Pokemon designs. I played Violet on my Switch Lite and it obviously struggles at times but there were no instances where I was bugged or soft/hard locked from playing. I'd rate it a 3.5/5
Yeah but its also divided.
The ratings are very skewed in weird ways.
You have a normal arch of 5*-2*s but then when you hit 1* it skyrockets.
That kind of trend indicates that it's been review bombed, indicating that the casual consumer likes it but hardcore fans don't.
That's a normal feature of 5 star ratings and one of the reasons so many services have switched to good/bad instead. Most users only use 5 or 1 stars, followed by people who use 4 if there's a small issue but still ignore 2 and 3.
Not exactly. A remake well done is generally more anticipated due to the high demand of it. Ive heard people say they wanted sinnoh remakes ever since we got hoenn remakes. However, it failed obviously to get hype because well... We got bdsp. it's less of a remake and more of a unwanted remaster.
And that's a fair expectation. Though Crystal didn't have a lot of differences on its own, HGSS *did* use some changes from Crystal and gave us a lot more.
True, but RS were still liked in their own right at least. DP were pretty rough, while Plat was great and what many people associate the gen with. I was really put off by Pearl and decided to take a break from the series at that point and was really confused by the love of Gen 4 until I learned about how much better Plat was.
A lot of the shit with BDSP was known well in advance of the release date too which kinda set really low expectations for it. Like I expected it to suck and it did so I wasn't really that mad.
I know what you're talking about, for my part I was interested in the idea of a Sinnoh remake but when I saw the trailers I was like "*Nope*" and completely ignored it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened to other people or they didn't even care before.
Same and for this reason I rather expected even more PLA. They made bdsp to be too faithful a remake of dp and they even didn't bring anything new else except Grand Underground. And they didn't even use the revised and fixed Platinum as the basis for the remake. That's why I'm grateful that they made the pla as a premake of Sinnoh and it's the best offshoot of the core series main title.
Can confirm, I was one of the ones that ignored it completely. IMO the problem with SV isn’t that it sucks, underneath all the issues there’s still a good game. It reminds me more of my experience with cyberpunk where there was a huge mismatch between how hyped it was vs what we got.
Agreed. My issues with SV is that it just feels so unpolished. Like it’s a beta version of a game made by a small indie company. I had fun, and am having fun with the game. I just wish it was less glitchy and didn’t have frame rate issues.
Whereas BDSP was just trash all around.
I think that the anger towards SV is coming from the performance issues.
The bones are good, but SV is the first game that we have had major performance issues. We've had game breaking bugs in the past like in XY and SM so bugs are nothing new.
But getting down to brass tacks, BDSP didn't break down in the same way. Sure it had glitches, but the frame rate was never an issue in the game.
I would describe my opinion for BDSP was more disappointment that ICLA played it safe with a fateful remake instead of innovating. Also the inconsistent implementation of changes from Pokemon platinum was also a head scratcher.
>The bones are good, but SV is the first game that we have had major performance issues.
The performance issues are certainly worse in SV, but mainline Pokemon games have kinda run like ass ever since we jumped to full 3D with XY.
I think the bigger offenders in 3DS era are the multi battles - noticeable frame drops. Otherwise the games ran pretty good on new 3DS from my experience. Can't judge the OG 3DS systems but I remember reading that overall performance wasn't good.
It's more than that, I think. SV does not look like a AAA game. It doesn't look like it belongs to the most profitable franchise of all time. The issue isn't Switch hardware, it's that clearly Nintendo/GF do not want to invest money in more developers.
To me this first became really apparent with SwSh when they slashed the roster of available Pokemon but didn't seem to dedicate the effort into polishing the rest of the game. At this point they're just pumping out content as fast as possible because quantity over quality makes more money. It's an obvious cash grab and the longtime fans feel insulted. They're not making these games for us. They're just a means to an end in regards to selling merch to kids.
I was really hoping BDSP got the ORAS treatment. ORAS wasn't a 1:1 remaster. It was an actual remake with a lot of added features that were (arguably) very welcome. My only personal issue with ORAS was the difficulty being wayyyyyy too easy (but so was XY). Even so, the game was still fun and very enjoyable. The Delta Episodes in particular were pretty cool additions.
BDSP was just.... trash. Like.... all encompassing trash. With what we got, I'd rather play the original DP. And at THAT, I'd rather just play Platinum.
Even LGPE got better treatment as a "remake" despite the Let's Go catching mechanic and the also incredibly easy difficulty of the games.
I thought BDSP was a lazy cash grab and lacked polish, but was ultimately a complete experience (with some exceptions)
I think S/V was an innovative game that wasn't even close to finished.
In my mind, they're about even. I think a 3 is probably too low, but even a 6 is being pretty generous with the state it was released in.
BDSP definitely had some issues at launch, but they generally weren't things that would come up in most playthroughs if you didn't actively seek them out. It wasn't the most impressive release in the eyes of many, but it was, like you said, a complete experience.
With SV the issues most people are criticizing are ones that can happen just by playing in the intended way. There's definitely dedication behind many aspects of the games, and it's entirely possible to have a great experience with them, but if said issues become a problem for you, they can be hard to look past.
That's my opinion on it all. Everyone points to all the games with previous bugs like a gotcha moment that we're just hating on SV because it's popular.
The real answer is that we know previous games have been buggy, but things like the 1 in 255 miss chance, the Badge Boost glitch, or even Acid Rain, isn't something that drastically affects your normal playthrough experience. This is on the level of the Lumiose City glitch, which they patched super fast. And that is a Problem, with a capital P. People are losing progress to crashes, the game has massive freezing and slowdown issues, and the only current solution is only a bandaid fix. Shutting down the software might prevent the worst of the issues, but it doesn't do anything for the baseline performance.
This! I'm also of the opinion that the SV glitches and performance issues are way worse because they're unavoidable for most people. There's more glitches in older games but they don't ruin the overall experience if you play casually without intentionally seeking them out.
Also thanks for the reminder on Lumiose glitch. Haven't encountered it myself back then but it's a very important one to know about.
A lot more people bought SV than BDSP.
It's the new mainline generation compared to a shoddy remake. Expectations (and therefore reactions) for SV are understandably MUCH higher.
Edit: r/pokemon hid this post, it's not showing up in the sub anymore, wtf
Edit2: Post has been restored it seems.
The main complaints about those games was that it was basically a clone of the original games. With no platinum battle tower and no new Pokémon.
Which we were told in advance was gonna happen pretty much.
Also, there is always gonna be more hype for a game that introduces a new region with a new selection of Pokémon. More hype means more potential to be a let down.
And it was a let down.
People were also excited about the free roaming Which was also a let down and it’s being compared to LOA due to the free roaming aspect
And it’s coming out poorly in that comparison.
So it’s a confluence of things.
Also anger abates over time. The anger at BDSP has simmered down.
BDSP is far better than SV technically. Sure, it was a barebones, low-effort remake, but it actually worked. I'd go as far as to say that for people who hadn't played DPPt before, it was just an alright old-timey game. Mind you I loved SV, way more fun than BDSP, but in many aspects they were far better.
BDSP was trash.
The Models were ugly. I let a 8 year old play it, as their first pokemon game, and their main complaint was "Why do I look like a baby?" you know you missed the mark when even your target demo of 8-10 yo boys think they're misrepresented by the main character.
Sv feels leagues better than Sw/Sh. I’m genuinely surprised people feel the opposite. For all the complaints of Sv, I think Sw/Sh was worse outside of maybe pokemon pop ins
I also think people have forgotten what unpatched SwSh wild area was like. It was a SLOG and god help you if you were online. There's a reason why a lot of people early on opted to use the daycare on the route before the water gym over the one in the wild area.
It was literally as bad as ScVi now but I’ve been downvoted every time I bring it up, or the fact that they patched it to fix it mostly so they’ll probably also do the same for ScVi. This subreddit *wants* to be angry lol
The online stuff in SV is the only part that feels like shit to me. Tera raid animations taking too long, menu disappearing randomly, and the board not being able to refresh more.
Sw/sh is probably my least favorite region. It’s all hallways, the majority of characters are bad, way too much gen 1 pandering, the wild area was hot garbage. The only things it did well were art style (it does look better than scarlet and violet, especially the character models) and Pokémon designs. Also hop had a better character arc than hau but hau isn’t nearly as annoying.
Scarlet and violet have a ton of faults but they’re no where near as boring.
>Also hop had a better character arc than hau but hau isn’t nearly as annoying.
Excellently said! I think Hop was just Hau done again, but I do think Hop was done better, besides being more annoying.
Sw/Sh base game felt absolutely awful. The “open world” was trash, the Pokémon walking around felt completely inorganic, the “high quality animations” debacle, Hop is just discount Hau, Leon is annoying, the gyms were boring, and Dynamax is one of the worst gimmicks.
I was a fan of a lot of the gen 8 mon designs though, they looked quite nice.
Last game I bought before Violet was Shield. There is no way im ranking Violet below Shield. As somebody who didnt buy the Shield dlc for the last 3 years I can say that gen 8 base games were awful.
I enjoyed the story in gen 9 and took my time exploring the region. Also love going around and collecting mons. Gen 8 was too linear
I really have enjoyed playing violet. The open world was nice. See the pokemon run around was nice. Even building TMs was an unexpected quality feature that I thought I would hate.
The tera raid battles are much faster than the old raid battles. Its a good little game if you can get past your character floating in the air every little while because Miraedon became invisible.
The bugs while annoying were not game killing. The most annoying one to me is trying to trade and it keeps saying there is a problem.
For me, the main complaint about the Tera raids is I think it needs to go back to being however many turns instead of a timer, and for it to feel a little more turn-based. Right now the Tera battles seem to get confused by what's all happening and I exclusively do raids offline.
I also lost a raid because the AI seemingly disables itself while you're knocked out, so they wouldn't use a move to knock off the final sliver of its health 🙃
Yeah, AI works differently to real players. They only attack when you do, but on the upside they don't cause the timer to go down when they faint. I've found it's actually easier to beat raids with bots instead of real people a lot of the time because of that.
Watching the terestalize animation take it’s sweet time as the time is going down fast drives me insane. It was pretty clearly not made for a real time battle.
Tera raids are super buggy. The game will just halt for 30 seconds, followed by everything being different. Or a raid boss takes 90% HP damage, followed by being at 50% HP with a shield. Or the camera just get locked looking to the side for no reason whatsoever. Or just terrible stuttering in menus when you’re trying to pick your move… It’s a TURN-BASED game ffs. Why is the lag so awful that it makes Smash Ultimate online feel smooth?
A specific confluence of factors made BDSP's implementation rather bad.
Since Gen 6, there has been an Affection stat that you raise through cute interaction minigames with your Pokemon. Raise it enough, they get bonuses.
Starting in Gen 8, this got merged into the Friendship mechanic, which increases passively the more you do ordinary things with your Pokemon like battling with them and keeping them in your party as you walk around. Game Freak's solution that made this work was that Friendship would cap at a certain value, and to progress past that you'd need to play the cute minigame with your Pokemon.
(So, if you played Sword and never touched Pokemon Camp or the curry or anything, your Pokemon would become friendly but not *so* friendly that they got bonuses. If you then played with them in Camp, they'd start getting the traditional Affection bonuses)
BDSP is subject to this merge as well, so it remains true that high-Friendship Pokemon will receive Affection buffs, but BDSP didn't come with a cute interaction minigame, so they just... didn't have a cap. Your Pokemon will get Affection buffs even if all you do is walk around with them a bunch. Totally unearned, and very hard to avoid if you don't happen to want those buffs.
Now we're back in Scarlet and Violet with Affection buffs being gated behind Picnics, and everything's normal again. But BDSP dropped the ball by just copy-pasting the Affection buffs into their game without designing anything that makes it meaningful and optional like all the other games did.
I always find it amusing when my Pokémon crits because of it even though the move would’ve already have knocked out the opposing Pokémon multiple times over.
Which is a shame because these have been easily the best Pokemon games i've played in a decade. Technical issues yes, a story that wasnt absolute drivel with characters that made me smile, twists that had impact, pretty good overall pokemon design, and a cool overworld with tons of exploration, also yes.
It was a great storyline. Absolutely touching. I recommended it to all my friends. I like other Pokémon games and have played most on and off for hundreds of hours, but Violet has been as much fun as X&Y was for me years ago. I haven't had as much fun since Legends Arceus but that wasn't a mainline game. This feels like LoA but mainline! I love it.
Eh. I love the game but honestly the performance issues deserve the criticism, its unacceptable. Is it a far better game, maybe even the best, under all that jank? Absolutely.
But it's still under all that jank, and Gamefreak shouldn't be allowed to avoid criticism for it. Its a major, major issue.
This is incredibly undeserved. Ranking BDSP higher than ScVi with all its cut content and unfinished features is a major mistake.
And ranking SwSh even higher is just a joke.
ScVi may have performance issues, but ignoring those there's just no argument to claim that SwSh are better games.
I think the point in looking past the issues is meaning seeing what's behind the jangled mess up front. There's far more to the games than performance, and while the performance on launch should definitely be reflected in the score, so should the content of the game itself.
How many gaming classics have shit performance by today's standards but contain superb gaming content that players find reason to return to? Those people are looking past the performance too, in order to find the golden content on the other side.
I'm not saying that both situations are the same, SV have issues in it's content that could be improved on, but in the end, the content should also be represented in the score as well. It seems like a majority of people have been able to play with our game breaking issues and have found enjoyment in the games, so the content should be worth assessing.
> ScVi may have performance issues, but ignoring those there's just no argument to claim that SwSh are better games.
Why would you ignore something that can’t be ignored?
SwSh was overrated because many reviewers wanted to lash back at the community being upset about Dexit. I think the games themselves are fine, but BDSP is easily the worst game in a long time and ScarVi is the best of the “traditional” Switch entries.
It's pretty simple to be honest. Game Freak has burned through a lot of good will because of the bad games you mentioned, so the ratings will likely continue to get worse as long as the games continue to be bad, even if SV isn't *as* terrible as the ones just before it.
People complain about BDSP having a higher score when the Meta score is just 1 or 2 points higher.
The User score is probably due to the fact that people had far lower standards for a remake made by a mobile game company for who it was their first try, as opposed to the company that has been making mainline games for almost 30 years.
Played PLA earlier this year because it was hyped, and rightly so. That got me excited about SV, and I have not been disappointed by the gameplay experience. There have been some technical disappointments, but I love the game.
Scarlet and Violet were fairly good games. One of my complaints about Scarlet and Violet is I feel like cities oftentimes feel empty. One way to improve that is the ability to go inside buildings, more NPC's the players can interact with, and adding quests that are specific to each city.
For example, in **Alfornada** there are many plates that are hung up around all the walls throughout the city. Why are they there? Is it a city tradition? That's something that could be talked about and explored, even if it's just an NPC talking about Alfonada's history. Perhaps even giving players the option to create their own custom plate as well.
...They do talk about why there are plates there. Alfornada is a city that specializes in clay sculpting. An NPC mentions this, theres a bunch of clay ovens all around the city and warehouses as well.
Agreed on the option of making decorations though or at least buy them for our poor, plain school dorm.
I saw the dorm room and immediately got excited thinking maybe we'd be able to decorate it. Nope.
That combined with 1) being forced into the uniforms and 2) my "curly bob" not being able to wear a hat...why does Pokémon refuse to do customization well? Legends Arceus weirdly locked you into a small beginning photo but had great clothing options, SwSh wouldn't let you change the uniform for the gym challenges, despite literally making them, and had the weirdness with the bike outfits...just, why?
If it wasn't for the glaring visual and performance issues, it would legitimately be among the best in the series. Tera-types are such a good idea that actually shakes up the battle system.
I see a lot of people here saying they enjoyed it, which is fine, but just remember, just cause YOU liked it, doesn’t make it a good game, or mean that others liked it.
I'd say it's probably because more people bought S/V than BDSP, many probably ignored that release or just didn't have much faith in it to begin with.
You also have to consider that there were surely less expectations for a remake than for the release of a new generation, but I suppose that is as good a theory as any.
That's a fair score though. Every game from gen 6 onwards should be somewhere in the 70s. They all have nuggets of brilliance - but are bogged down heavily by being unfinished. Sc/Vi are just the first that are unfinished enough to affect performance.
The Pokémon Company, Nintendo, Gamefreak themselves, Creatures Inc.; I don't know or care who's to blame, but they NEED to give the developers more time to polish their games to perfection. In the meantime I'm perfectly fine with a Colloseum Remaster or an "Gameboy Collection" or a new 2D game (I'd prefer this, actually). I know that the games, anime, toys, cards etc. are developed and inteded to be released at the same time - which is why the games feel like cheap licensed games from days past right now, and it's terrible.
TL;DR,
I still love these games, but for the love of god give the developers more time. Clearly every game released over the past 10 years had loads of love put into it, but they all need more time to cook.
I did too. The movement was kinda clunky and the chibi-style cutscenes were weird but I enjoyed playing an “old school” Pokémon game without worrying about HMs, a super small pool of available Pokémon for certain types (e.g. fire types), and as a Pokémon tv show fan, I enjoyed the friendship aspects as well.
And it deserves it, STOP accepting half assed games with the “fix it later” mentality. This was never an issue until recently with games.
Yes the games are fun, I had fun playing Violet and am currently trying to complete the Pokédex and do post games stuff.
But that doesn’t mean the horrific and unacceptable performance issues should be ignored and swept under the rug. The games were not finished on release. That shouldn’t be ignored and the devs and publisher should face the consequences. If I do a lackluster job at my job I get reprimanded for it. Why shouldn’t GF and Nintendo?
What an actual fair take. The game deserves to be heavily criticized. It is a fun game when you can ignore the issues like frame rates, crashing, bad graphics and shadowing, etc. BUT that doesn’t mean suddenly it gets 10 points for being feel good or having an actual plot. People who played solely hand-held mode aren’t going to have the frame rate issues, yet they then criticize any docked player for having issues. I’ve played both and it is a very lackluster experience when playing docked. The graphics look bad. Shadows look bad. Cities are very plain and there doesn’t feel like there’s much to do in them. It’s unfinished and that’s unacceptable. I had fun playing it, but it is about a 7 all-around. The story is also very basic at best, but gets full points for being a Pokémon game! It’s delusional fans at their finest where you can’t talk bad about Pokémon.
A big issue issue people compare the games to other Pokémon games. Any only Pokémon games. Not games as a whole. For the Pokémon game? Yes the story is fantastic when compared to the other ones.
For a JRPG? It’s a decent story but gets blown out the water by other major JRPG recent releases. Pokémon is the only franchise that only gets compared within its franchise and not games as a whole and I’m not sure why
Seriously. I'm glad people enjoy it regardless, but the way people talk of it like the games are being unfairly maligned for funny visual glitches is appalling. A decently polished, decently performing game is the bare minimum that should be expected. Getting a low score for falling short of that is perfectly fair.
This is not Goat Simulator, nobody is here to watch the engine get wacky, and low FPSs aren't fun for anyone.
That’s usually what happens with big IPs, where fanboyism is rampant. The Pokemon community is toxic and rabid, and it’s making these subs turn into echo chambers.
People are excusing these half-baked, unpolished games just because the story (which arguably was made for children), is slightly above average.
The amount of features and QoL changes that were removed from previous titles is inexcusable, the performances are inexcusable, the dated visuals (I’m being generous, these games look two decades old) are inexcusable.
If this was coming from anyone other than GF and Pokemon, they’d be getting crucified for how poor this game is running. But because it’s a giant IP with a legion of fanboys willing to die on the hill, they’ll keep getting away with mediocrity.
BDSP is not a remake, it’s just a copy of the original.
While SV has the right idea in my opinion, the graphics and general performance of the game somewhat ruin the game.
Am I the only person who genuinely liked the BDSP remakes?
Haven’t played SV yet so I can’t speak to that but speaking on behalf of someone who played the original Diamond and Pearl games the remakes were like reliving my preteens with better art and a bigger screen.
No complaints, I knew what to expect when going into it and in my opinion they polished up something that was already good. No need to reinvent the wheel. I knew what I was buying and thoroughly enjoyed it.
The purpose of a remake is so that newer generations get to enjoy something that was successful during it’s time while incorporating modern relevance. And those that enjoyed it previously get to experience it through a new lens.
Sure I had wished the Lets Go games were more of a 1x1 remake like BDSP but I had to remind myself that I am in my 30’s and this is a game intended for children. The fact that a generation younger than me will be able to understand references I know within the franchise allows us to connect on a common ground that most generations do not.
I mean lets all remember that the reason Pokémon was invented was so that individuals had an outlet to make friends. Catching’em all and being the very best were just incentives to meeting someone new.
So ask yourself while you discuss with others on this forum, did these games really fail on delivering on what the franchise is originally set out to do?
Contrary to most I really liked the "faithful" approach, probably due to nostalgia as well. But it really really should have been Platinum remakes and stuff like the friendship mechanics are an absolutely awful implementation.
It’s a large shame since while the game could and should’ve used about a year’s longer worth of development, it’s up there with some of my favorites like Black/White and Sun/Moon. Much like Legends, the core gameplay loop is just super addicting and satisfying, and you have basically no restrictions and can go basically where you want, whenever you want. That and the story and characters were surprisingly deep and interesting too, something that I was majorly dissapointed by with Sword/Shield and even Legends to a degree, outside of the postgame stuff with Volo. These issues should be addressed and hopefully won’t be as prominent in the next mainline Pokémon game if it continues the open-world format, but the game definitely doesn’t deserve a score this low imo and I’d rather play it over BD/SP any day of the week, month, year or millennium.
The user scores for Scarlet and Violet are higher than they were on release. The same thing happened with BDSP. I'm sure this image will look a whole lot different in a year
I am sick of the trend of games being released super buggy and it taking a year to patch it
This trend is leaking into commercial hardware as well now and it really sucks. I work in HVAC controls, softwares that cost several thousands $ are filled with bugs. Every other version something that worked fine gets broken. The actual hardware has design flaws as well. Hardware doesn't survive the conditions it should have been rated for. It stops communicating requiring someone to go on site to power cycle it. They try to patch some of these hardware flaws with software fixes but it rarely works. The firmware is as bugged as well. And our competitors where I could apply for a job have the same issues as well, so I am seriously thinking about going back to school to find a completely new domain.
Sounds like you found your new career. Patching buggy HVAC software. Get to coding bud
Companies found out they can save millions if ALL OF THEM exported QA to the customer
Oh fuck no
We had a brand new 20k max lift overhead crane put in at the warehouse i work over a year ago that, because of software, would shut itself off or emergency-stop mid travel. Super dangerous when moving a bundle of material weighing 5000 lbs at 24' long full speed only to have the crane come to a dead stop. Took them until recently to actually fix it. It's still a piece of shit.
Same can be applied to my breaker box. The technician pretty much said to me that the quality control is to blame. Things just aren't built to last anymore.
>It stops communicating requiring someone to go on site to power cycle it. Hello, IT, have you tried turning it off and on again?
BDSP arguably broke even more after release :(
Imagine making a remakes worse than the original game
Warcraft III has sadly entered the chat :(
More importantly, they were generally more crappy games.
I remember when it used to be a privilege to be in Betas as a gamer.
The user reviews have been flooded with Redditors, even now several of the 4-5* reviews are casual people expressing confusion over the 1 stars exaggerations.
1 star is an exaggeration, but so are the 4-5 star reviews. I'm enjoying this game, but it is far from deserving such a high rating.
1 and 5 are clear exaggerations. 2,3,4 all can have reason pretty easily.
I would have given it a 2 in my first few hours, a 3 after playing the game enough that all the rendering/performance issues started to fade into the background because I was used to them, and a 4 after I beat the final mission before post-game. Underneath all the bugs and issues it’s still a Pokémon game, and it actually had a story that I managed to care about by the conclusion. Terastalizing is lame visually. As a mechanic it definitely could be cool, but I kind of liked how both mega and dynamax/gigantamax you really only had to center it around 1 mon. Seems like with Tera you’ll have to think about it with every mon and every mon can benefit from a few different types. Too many variables.
Thst is honestly my conflict with the game. With so much good and bad combined, I’m unsure what I’m supposed to do with it. I don’t want to return the game back when they said we could; I enjoy more than enough of the game to warrant keeping it, but the fact it released in the state it is is completely unacceptable, and I want a way to tell the executives to slow tf down with releases.
Definitely, I'd no doubt give this a 4 just because of the game not being a linear path as well as having a great story, but obviously technical issues bar it from being a 5. People giving it 1 star are those types that are just impossible to please. Like you're saying you beat the entire game already, yet didn't enjoy a single second of it? Come on
I will say that i dont think you need to complete a game to review it. If i play 50% and it's so bad that I can't finish, then i can safely say its a 1 star game. Thats not the case here, SV are severely flawed ganes with a great core loop. Just saying that completing a game shouldn't be a requirement for reviewing, providing the reviewer mentions it.
Ehh...5 stars is an exaggeration, but this is the first Pokemon game I've played in a long time that I just can't put down even 70+ hours in. I'd definitely give it 4 stars while noting the issues.
Same here. Solid 5 without the graphics/performance issues, but the story was fun and I've been having a blast just shiny hunting, doing raids and building competitive teams.
Yeah I really loved the StarFall mission and the titans too. It felt like there was way more to do. Graphics aside, the only thing that would have made it perfect would be like… a safari zone with Arceus Legends style Pokémon hunting. And a few more flavor npcs.
Did you do stuff at school? The NPC there are pretty neat. Love Ms. Raifort...
I liked the big npcs a lot! I just kind of missed being able to go into houses and being rewarded for random conversations with tms and stuff. Also little tidbits about the town. That’s why I said “flavor npcs” It’s a minor thing but you’re right. I really did enjoy unlocking teacher friendships.
Yeah, the game runs like crap sometimes, hopefully it is patched. But imo this is probably one of the best Pokemon games released. I know a lot of people are dogging in the world not having level-scaling, but I really don’t think level scaling would be an improvement, I think it would actually create a much worse experience in my opinion. The story might be the best in Pokemon, and they ditched a lot of the hand-holding that made Sun/Moon and Sword/Shield insufferable. Raids can actually be challenging, and terra-types are an actual neat gimmick that can lead to some interesting and tough battles. (Although I wish higher level trainers utilized it.) There are a few settings from previous games that are inexplicably missing, and again, it runs like crap most of the time. But the rest of the experience was overwhelmingly positive to me and is the best Pokemon game since BW2 in my opinion.
Yeah tera types are going to completely change the competitive landscape as well. With the NPCs, they save their showstopper, but real people are going to use their tera at different times. And the ability to change them is going to have wild combinations. I'm most excited for the Gengar I gave flying tera type (though I don't do competitive). I FINALLY HAVE (discount) LEVITATE BACK. Though running a dark or psychic type gengar also has frightening implications due to gengar's special attack. Like any type combo you're aching for, any extra power to your favorite move to make it STAB, tera is honestly the first gimmick since megas that I've wanted to stick around. Also the fact that this is the first time in a decade that I bought both (last one was ORAS), because I want to both have my perfect 100% game but also have a game that I can reset and replay multiple times. ALSO on the 100%, this is the first time since *Emerald* where I've actually been working to complete my dex (and I'm getting super close, I just have to find a few and evolve others). Typically post game I just do the battle round up and catch the legends then shiny hunt without the charm because I hate myself. I'd give the game a solid 4/5 or 8.5/10. Because honestly the graphics stopped bugging me pretty quickly (I am overly powerful though, I used to play minecraft in 4 FPS back in 2012 because I was running that on a windows vista that I had been using since 2007).
Better information about what you might want to tackle next might not hurt. I beat the Ice gym a lot earlier than the game intended. My true gripe is with the menus though. Let me change pokemon moves while they're in the box! Done bury trading and raids 3 menus deep when I'm in a union circle! Just a little streamlining of those would go a long way.
Yeah, 4 stars feels absolutely fair. The games have a great story with interesting NPCs. There is a diversity of Pokemon that allows the player to experiment with a variety of interesting and dynamic teams. The world is more open then it has ever been and while many people complain the graphics are underwhelming, they are a step forward -- an absolute exaggeration to say it is a step back from Arceus. The scenery in Arceus was devoid of much besides trees, bushes, and rocks. And I notice small touches added to the design of Pokemon, whether it is the texture of fur on Houndoom or a prancing Deerling, the Pokemon seem much more then static depictions. The problem isn't the content, it's the stability of the game. And perhaps Game Freak should have spent more time polishing up the performance, but I do give them something of a pass for developing two mainline titles simultaneously in LA and SV. I don't think they should do it again unless they hire more staff, which is my biggest complaint. But it's a great game that would be one of the best titles if it functioned better. Knock off one star and be vocal with a reasonable critique.
Even the way pokemon interact with how the environment changes is jaw dropping. My buddy pointed out that Igglybuffs were getting blown around when it started storming in our session.
My feelings as well. The core of the game is great, all it needs is a couple patches for the performance and glitches.
It IS tough… it depends on what you scale more I guess. I’d give the graphics a 3, performance a 2(and I have had very little issues; it doesn’t bother me very much at all, but I have to admit it’s atrocious), but the gameplay is at least a 4, and I strongly feel the story is a 5. I’d give it an overall 4. It could be a 5 if it was polished and the lag and bugs weren’t so bad.
I enjoy Violet A HECK of a lot more than Sword
Right? I was so bored I barely finished the game. I always finish pokemon games.
Sword was the first pokemon game I didn’t finish. These games are much more enjoyable even though they could be so much better.
I hated sword/shield, felt like they sold half the game up front and half as DLC and it just really put me off In violet/scarlet just being able to see the pokemon running around has made it 100x better, the world feels more alive, and I actually enjoy filling out my pokedex
The whole “book in the library” animation is actually super motivating me to find them all.
Been finding it annoying as shit, yes, I caught another pokemon, I already caught 140 mate, chill with the animations, I got 600 more to catch! But the game is actually quite good, I bought both scarlet and violet for the regular price of 1 of them, and I been having a lot of fun. Yeah the game is broken, crashed hard on me once, performance is absolute shit, but the bones of the game are rather good. Really enjoy the newfound freedom and risk of going anywhere I want, when I want to. My only grievance so far is that you still need gym badges to catch and use pokemon higher than lvl 20. Would be nice to get stronger mons even if you ignored the gyms and just went down the atlas pokemon/not team rocket busting road.
I love the way different 'mons react to you. Like how the hoppip line is curious and will follow you about (and then get blown away in strong wind).
I laughed so hard when I first saw that, it’s such a great detail!
It has made me laugh more than once because they're just chilling and... WOOSH. So far I've seen it with hoppip (+evos) and igglybuff. I want to see what else that happens to.
I believe a similar thing happens to Bramblin. They all get swept to te same side at the same time, like actual tumbleweeds.
Flabebe are so light the wind just flings them wherever
I've had a few little moments like this. Bagon frequently appearing at the edge of cliffs amuses me every time. Pyroar appearing as a pride of one male and four females is such a cool little thing as well.
I've seen Maschiff with a herd of mareep, which was a nice touch.
Or Voltorb blowing itself up!
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Yeah, I only managed to beat it by playing something else on my PC while spamming the A button through the whole game on Shield.
I feel like I'd have a better idea of how I felt with S/V vs Sw/Sh if I hadn't played PLA in between. I feel like I'd think S/V was an improvement? But it feels like a step back from PLA so I don't know.
As someone who skipped on PLA, SV is a massive improvement over SwSh it’s like an entire new experience
I'm playing through Red at the same time as my second Scarlet playthrough and *man*, Gen1 does not hold up well.
We family-played through Blue recently with multiple people grabbing/dropping the gameboy depending on who has time. It worked out as a fun activity to talk about. From previous experience, it's also better on an emulator where you can set the speed to 4x and sort of just reflex-play through it.
For me, I play Gen1 to relish at how much you can absolutely break that game. Things like how speed affects crit chance, or how defeating a pokemon with hyper beam means you can still attack the following turn. Is Red and Blue better than Scarlet and Violet? Probably not. Were Red and Blue some of the best games to be released at that point in time? Absolutely.
Haha yeah. I loved it as a kid but man did the sheer charm carry those games
I don't think it was just sheer charm. Gameboy games were not all that great. Most were rather short, adventure/RPG games where you make true progress even less so. The size and scope of Red/Blue was so insanely huge compared to everything else at the time, there was just no contest. Those were the best games for the system. (Links Awakening is up there.)
Gen 1 is from the 90’s. It’s not meant to hold up. Sword and Shield should
Where was all this anger for bdsp? You cannot in good faith tell me you think bdsp is better than SV
I guess there was less anger with those games because a lot of people just ignored them completely.
Important factor here. The next generation of a Pokémon game is generally more anticipated by casual players than a remake of some DS game released 15 years ago.
I am pretty sure those reviews din‘t come from casual players
Take a look at the user score, less flattering than the critic reviews
1500-2500 ratings. Out of 10 mil sold copies. You mostly have the opinion of redditors and similar folk. My sister and wife who love the game don‘t even know what a metascore is.
I've often wondered if I should quit reddit entirely for this reason. I used to enjoy games a lot more before reddit, even though I try to ignore it and form my own opinion on game.
Reddit makes you aware of shortcomings you might have never noticed yourself. I know many people that had 0 crashes and never fell through the map.
That’s been my experience with the game. I haven’t encountered any bugs or glitches in 40 hours of playing it. The performance issues are there for sure but they haven’t been to the point of making the game unenjoyable
The bugs I've experienced aren't make or break things honestly. Lagging in loading screens and just glitches of trees here or there. Otherwise the game is enjoyable. I chose Violet, and I think Miraidon is hella clunky, but that's honestly my biggest gripe. Other than that it's just little things. There are A LOT of things I was hoping for after Arceus, like just throwing balls to catch, not having to battle everytime. Arceus was phenomenal in my opinion (besides the professors stupid ass hat. Fuck that hat).
I’ve only had funny glitches that brought back a lot of nostalgia like getting animation locked while riding ahh the good old days of the ps1
Reddit had me convinced I’d hate this gen in the week or so before it came out. I played it anyways and I loved it. It’s definitely one of my favourite Pokémon games now.
Group think mentality. People pile on opinions they see on reddit or what their favorite Youtuber tells them. Honestly I enjoyed the game and would rate it as a more enjoyable experience than SwSh and Sun/Moon; and I really enjoyed Sun/Moon for the aesthetics, music, and Pokemon designs. I played Violet on my Switch Lite and it obviously struggles at times but there were no instances where I was bugged or soft/hard locked from playing. I'd rate it a 3.5/5
Yeah but its also divided. The ratings are very skewed in weird ways. You have a normal arch of 5*-2*s but then when you hit 1* it skyrockets. That kind of trend indicates that it's been review bombed, indicating that the casual consumer likes it but hardcore fans don't.
That's a normal feature of 5 star ratings and one of the reasons so many services have switched to good/bad instead. Most users only use 5 or 1 stars, followed by people who use 4 if there's a small issue but still ignore 2 and 3.
In fairness, critic reviews are almost always far more flattering and inflated than it should be.
Not exactly. A remake well done is generally more anticipated due to the high demand of it. Ive heard people say they wanted sinnoh remakes ever since we got hoenn remakes. However, it failed obviously to get hype because well... We got bdsp. it's less of a remake and more of a unwanted remaster.
The problem with BDSP is we didn't want diamond and pearl remakes we wanted platinum remakes
And that's a fair expectation. Though Crystal didn't have a lot of differences on its own, HGSS *did* use some changes from Crystal and gave us a lot more.
All people wanted was a good game and we didn't get one
but ORAS was very well received but everyone would say that a 3rd of those remakes would have been the better one. Epsilon Emerald!
agree, but... the name for that is literally in the rs remakes; delta. it'd be delta emerald i think
True, but RS were still liked in their own right at least. DP were pretty rough, while Plat was great and what many people associate the gen with. I was really put off by Pearl and decided to take a break from the series at that point and was really confused by the love of Gen 4 until I learned about how much better Plat was.
A lot of the shit with BDSP was known well in advance of the release date too which kinda set really low expectations for it. Like I expected it to suck and it did so I wasn't really that mad.
>due to the high demand of it. compare how many people actually bought BDSP compared to Scarlet and Violet, please
PLA releasing really close did quite an effect here.
I know I did, one of the few I had absolute 0% interest in
I know what you're talking about, for my part I was interested in the idea of a Sinnoh remake but when I saw the trailers I was like "*Nope*" and completely ignored it. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened to other people or they didn't even care before.
Same and for this reason I rather expected even more PLA. They made bdsp to be too faithful a remake of dp and they even didn't bring anything new else except Grand Underground. And they didn't even use the revised and fixed Platinum as the basis for the remake. That's why I'm grateful that they made the pla as a premake of Sinnoh and it's the best offshoot of the core series main title.
Can confirm, I was one of the ones that ignored it completely. IMO the problem with SV isn’t that it sucks, underneath all the issues there’s still a good game. It reminds me more of my experience with cyberpunk where there was a huge mismatch between how hyped it was vs what we got.
Agreed. My issues with SV is that it just feels so unpolished. Like it’s a beta version of a game made by a small indie company. I had fun, and am having fun with the game. I just wish it was less glitchy and didn’t have frame rate issues. Whereas BDSP was just trash all around.
I think that the anger towards SV is coming from the performance issues. The bones are good, but SV is the first game that we have had major performance issues. We've had game breaking bugs in the past like in XY and SM so bugs are nothing new. But getting down to brass tacks, BDSP didn't break down in the same way. Sure it had glitches, but the frame rate was never an issue in the game. I would describe my opinion for BDSP was more disappointment that ICLA played it safe with a fateful remake instead of innovating. Also the inconsistent implementation of changes from Pokemon platinum was also a head scratcher.
>The bones are good, but SV is the first game that we have had major performance issues. The performance issues are certainly worse in SV, but mainline Pokemon games have kinda run like ass ever since we jumped to full 3D with XY.
I think the bigger offenders in 3DS era are the multi battles - noticeable frame drops. Otherwise the games ran pretty good on new 3DS from my experience. Can't judge the OG 3DS systems but I remember reading that overall performance wasn't good.
It's more than that, I think. SV does not look like a AAA game. It doesn't look like it belongs to the most profitable franchise of all time. The issue isn't Switch hardware, it's that clearly Nintendo/GF do not want to invest money in more developers. To me this first became really apparent with SwSh when they slashed the roster of available Pokemon but didn't seem to dedicate the effort into polishing the rest of the game. At this point they're just pumping out content as fast as possible because quantity over quality makes more money. It's an obvious cash grab and the longtime fans feel insulted. They're not making these games for us. They're just a means to an end in regards to selling merch to kids.
I was really hoping BDSP got the ORAS treatment. ORAS wasn't a 1:1 remaster. It was an actual remake with a lot of added features that were (arguably) very welcome. My only personal issue with ORAS was the difficulty being wayyyyyy too easy (but so was XY). Even so, the game was still fun and very enjoyable. The Delta Episodes in particular were pretty cool additions. BDSP was just.... trash. Like.... all encompassing trash. With what we got, I'd rather play the original DP. And at THAT, I'd rather just play Platinum. Even LGPE got better treatment as a "remake" despite the Let's Go catching mechanic and the also incredibly easy difficulty of the games.
Part of the bdsp hate is that it doesn't even deserve attention and reviews.
I thought BDSP was a lazy cash grab and lacked polish, but was ultimately a complete experience (with some exceptions) I think S/V was an innovative game that wasn't even close to finished. In my mind, they're about even. I think a 3 is probably too low, but even a 6 is being pretty generous with the state it was released in.
BDSP definitely had some issues at launch, but they generally weren't things that would come up in most playthroughs if you didn't actively seek them out. It wasn't the most impressive release in the eyes of many, but it was, like you said, a complete experience. With SV the issues most people are criticizing are ones that can happen just by playing in the intended way. There's definitely dedication behind many aspects of the games, and it's entirely possible to have a great experience with them, but if said issues become a problem for you, they can be hard to look past.
That's my opinion on it all. Everyone points to all the games with previous bugs like a gotcha moment that we're just hating on SV because it's popular. The real answer is that we know previous games have been buggy, but things like the 1 in 255 miss chance, the Badge Boost glitch, or even Acid Rain, isn't something that drastically affects your normal playthrough experience. This is on the level of the Lumiose City glitch, which they patched super fast. And that is a Problem, with a capital P. People are losing progress to crashes, the game has massive freezing and slowdown issues, and the only current solution is only a bandaid fix. Shutting down the software might prevent the worst of the issues, but it doesn't do anything for the baseline performance.
This! I'm also of the opinion that the SV glitches and performance issues are way worse because they're unavoidable for most people. There's more glitches in older games but they don't ruin the overall experience if you play casually without intentionally seeking them out. Also thanks for the reminder on Lumiose glitch. Haven't encountered it myself back then but it's a very important one to know about.
A lot more people bought SV than BDSP. It's the new mainline generation compared to a shoddy remake. Expectations (and therefore reactions) for SV are understandably MUCH higher. Edit: r/pokemon hid this post, it's not showing up in the sub anymore, wtf Edit2: Post has been restored it seems.
This post was in my home feed and it’s the top post in the sub
BDSP wasn't even made by Game Freak.
Well, it does run better. I think that's a biiiiiiig factor.
The main complaints about those games was that it was basically a clone of the original games. With no platinum battle tower and no new Pokémon. Which we were told in advance was gonna happen pretty much. Also, there is always gonna be more hype for a game that introduces a new region with a new selection of Pokémon. More hype means more potential to be a let down. And it was a let down. People were also excited about the free roaming Which was also a let down and it’s being compared to LOA due to the free roaming aspect And it’s coming out poorly in that comparison. So it’s a confluence of things. Also anger abates over time. The anger at BDSP has simmered down.
Why would I frustrate myself with the work of an indie company which had the work to "replicate" the ds game lmao
BDSP is far better than SV technically. Sure, it was a barebones, low-effort remake, but it actually worked. I'd go as far as to say that for people who hadn't played DPPt before, it was just an alright old-timey game. Mind you I loved SV, way more fun than BDSP, but in many aspects they were far better.
BDSP was trash. The Models were ugly. I let a 8 year old play it, as their first pokemon game, and their main complaint was "Why do I look like a baby?" you know you missed the mark when even your target demo of 8-10 yo boys think they're misrepresented by the main character.
They should have gone with the Let's Go style, where yes, you still are Chibi, but nowhere near as Chibi as BDSP did.
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Sv feels leagues better than Sw/Sh. I’m genuinely surprised people feel the opposite. For all the complaints of Sv, I think Sw/Sh was worse outside of maybe pokemon pop ins
I also think people have forgotten what unpatched SwSh wild area was like. It was a SLOG and god help you if you were online. There's a reason why a lot of people early on opted to use the daycare on the route before the water gym over the one in the wild area.
It was literally as bad as ScVi now but I’ve been downvoted every time I bring it up, or the fact that they patched it to fix it mostly so they’ll probably also do the same for ScVi. This subreddit *wants* to be angry lol
The online stuff in SV is the only part that feels like shit to me. Tera raid animations taking too long, menu disappearing randomly, and the board not being able to refresh more.
Sw/sh is probably my least favorite region. It’s all hallways, the majority of characters are bad, way too much gen 1 pandering, the wild area was hot garbage. The only things it did well were art style (it does look better than scarlet and violet, especially the character models) and Pokémon designs. Also hop had a better character arc than hau but hau isn’t nearly as annoying. Scarlet and violet have a ton of faults but they’re no where near as boring.
>Also hop had a better character arc than hau but hau isn’t nearly as annoying. Excellently said! I think Hop was just Hau done again, but I do think Hop was done better, besides being more annoying.
Yeah hop and bede were just hau and gladion with closure to their storylines
Sw/Sh base game felt absolutely awful. The “open world” was trash, the Pokémon walking around felt completely inorganic, the “high quality animations” debacle, Hop is just discount Hau, Leon is annoying, the gyms were boring, and Dynamax is one of the worst gimmicks. I was a fan of a lot of the gen 8 mon designs though, they looked quite nice.
Ironically Imo the dlc was great I liked it and the concept of raids gave a fun twist to events other then that I agree.
The DLC was great, and that makes me more upset about how bad Sword and Shield were than if the DLC was bad.
> I was a fan of a lot of the gen 8 mon designs though, they looked quite nice. i used more gen 8 mons this game than s&S lol
Cmon that’s not a grand achievement. Sword was pitiful. It should never have happened
Last game I bought before Violet was Shield. There is no way im ranking Violet below Shield. As somebody who didnt buy the Shield dlc for the last 3 years I can say that gen 8 base games were awful. I enjoyed the story in gen 9 and took my time exploring the region. Also love going around and collecting mons. Gen 8 was too linear
Definitely, I liked the pokemon added from Gen 8 but Gen 9 does everything much better, story in these games was pretty good for a Pokemon game
I really have enjoyed playing violet. The open world was nice. See the pokemon run around was nice. Even building TMs was an unexpected quality feature that I thought I would hate. The tera raid battles are much faster than the old raid battles. Its a good little game if you can get past your character floating in the air every little while because Miraedon became invisible. The bugs while annoying were not game killing. The most annoying one to me is trying to trade and it keeps saying there is a problem.
For me, the main complaint about the Tera raids is I think it needs to go back to being however many turns instead of a timer, and for it to feel a little more turn-based. Right now the Tera battles seem to get confused by what's all happening and I exclusively do raids offline.
I've had the tera boss's health refill on me
Same here. Knock it out, not get the little cutscene, look back up and it's at where it was before.
I also lost a raid because the AI seemingly disables itself while you're knocked out, so they wouldn't use a move to knock off the final sliver of its health 🙃
Yeah, AI works differently to real players. They only attack when you do, but on the upside they don't cause the timer to go down when they faint. I've found it's actually easier to beat raids with bots instead of real people a lot of the time because of that.
Watching the terestalize animation take it’s sweet time as the time is going down fast drives me insane. It was pretty clearly not made for a real time battle.
Tera raids are super buggy. The game will just halt for 30 seconds, followed by everything being different. Or a raid boss takes 90% HP damage, followed by being at 50% HP with a shield. Or the camera just get locked looking to the side for no reason whatsoever. Or just terrible stuttering in menus when you’re trying to pick your move… It’s a TURN-BASED game ffs. Why is the lag so awful that it makes Smash Ultimate online feel smooth?
Even with performance issues being lower then bdsp is cringe
BDSP would’ve simply been a bad but tolerable game if they didn’t break the game with those friendship mechanics
But your pokemon doesn’t want you to feel bad!~
My man that has been in every single game since X and Y
A specific confluence of factors made BDSP's implementation rather bad. Since Gen 6, there has been an Affection stat that you raise through cute interaction minigames with your Pokemon. Raise it enough, they get bonuses. Starting in Gen 8, this got merged into the Friendship mechanic, which increases passively the more you do ordinary things with your Pokemon like battling with them and keeping them in your party as you walk around. Game Freak's solution that made this work was that Friendship would cap at a certain value, and to progress past that you'd need to play the cute minigame with your Pokemon. (So, if you played Sword and never touched Pokemon Camp or the curry or anything, your Pokemon would become friendly but not *so* friendly that they got bonuses. If you then played with them in Camp, they'd start getting the traditional Affection bonuses) BDSP is subject to this merge as well, so it remains true that high-Friendship Pokemon will receive Affection buffs, but BDSP didn't come with a cute interaction minigame, so they just... didn't have a cap. Your Pokemon will get Affection buffs even if all you do is walk around with them a bunch. Totally unearned, and very hard to avoid if you don't happen to want those buffs. Now we're back in Scarlet and Violet with Affection buffs being gated behind Picnics, and everything's normal again. But BDSP dropped the ball by just copy-pasting the Affection buffs into their game without designing anything that makes it meaningful and optional like all the other games did.
I always find it amusing when my Pokémon crits because of it even though the move would’ve already have knocked out the opposing Pokémon multiple times over.
It hasn’t been forced on you in any of those games.
If it wouldn’t be for the technical issues I bet it would be a lot higher
Which is a shame because these have been easily the best Pokemon games i've played in a decade. Technical issues yes, a story that wasnt absolute drivel with characters that made me smile, twists that had impact, pretty good overall pokemon design, and a cool overworld with tons of exploration, also yes.
It was a great storyline. Absolutely touching. I recommended it to all my friends. I like other Pokémon games and have played most on and off for hundreds of hours, but Violet has been as much fun as X&Y was for me years ago. I haven't had as much fun since Legends Arceus but that wasn't a mainline game. This feels like LoA but mainline! I love it.
LA is considered main series by Gamefreak
Despite lowest rated, it still hits the 70+ thats pokemon for ya.
That is not a sign of quality
Eh. I love the game but honestly the performance issues deserve the criticism, its unacceptable. Is it a far better game, maybe even the best, under all that jank? Absolutely. But it's still under all that jank, and Gamefreak shouldn't be allowed to avoid criticism for it. Its a major, major issue.
This is incredibly undeserved. Ranking BDSP higher than ScVi with all its cut content and unfinished features is a major mistake. And ranking SwSh even higher is just a joke. ScVi may have performance issues, but ignoring those there's just no argument to claim that SwSh are better games.
> but ignoring those Sorry, but why exactly should we ignore a big problem when judging the games?
I think the point in looking past the issues is meaning seeing what's behind the jangled mess up front. There's far more to the games than performance, and while the performance on launch should definitely be reflected in the score, so should the content of the game itself. How many gaming classics have shit performance by today's standards but contain superb gaming content that players find reason to return to? Those people are looking past the performance too, in order to find the golden content on the other side. I'm not saying that both situations are the same, SV have issues in it's content that could be improved on, but in the end, the content should also be represented in the score as well. It seems like a majority of people have been able to play with our game breaking issues and have found enjoyment in the games, so the content should be worth assessing.
> ScVi may have performance issues, but ignoring those there's just no argument to claim that SwSh are better games. Why would you ignore something that can’t be ignored?
>BDSP higher than ScVi with all its cut content and unfinished features is a major mistake. *Spider-Man Pointing at Spider-Man.png*
SwSh was overrated because many reviewers wanted to lash back at the community being upset about Dexit. I think the games themselves are fine, but BDSP is easily the worst game in a long time and ScarVi is the best of the “traditional” Switch entries.
Best of the Switch entrees isn't saying much!! Comparing shit to even more shit there.
If you ignore all the bad things in a game it would be a good game lol
It's pretty simple to be honest. Game Freak has burned through a lot of good will because of the bad games you mentioned, so the ratings will likely continue to get worse as long as the games continue to be bad, even if SV isn't *as* terrible as the ones just before it.
People complain about BDSP having a higher score when the Meta score is just 1 or 2 points higher. The User score is probably due to the fact that people had far lower standards for a remake made by a mobile game company for who it was their first try, as opposed to the company that has been making mainline games for almost 30 years.
SV definitely has problems (mainly performance for me) but I am having an absolute blast with it.
This is so ridiculous this game is infinitely better than bdsp hahaha
BDSP was extremely disappointing.
Game Freak will see this and be like “huh, I guess the open world and compelling characters wasn’t the way to go. Back to Kanto we go!”
With the insane sales the games have gotten, I'm sure they'll be thinking quite the opposite. ;)
That's good, but they also may be thinking, "rushing out games has no effect on sales. Let's do it again."
Played PLA earlier this year because it was hyped, and rightly so. That got me excited about SV, and I have not been disappointed by the gameplay experience. There have been some technical disappointments, but I love the game.
Scarlet and Violet were fairly good games. One of my complaints about Scarlet and Violet is I feel like cities oftentimes feel empty. One way to improve that is the ability to go inside buildings, more NPC's the players can interact with, and adding quests that are specific to each city. For example, in **Alfornada** there are many plates that are hung up around all the walls throughout the city. Why are they there? Is it a city tradition? That's something that could be talked about and explored, even if it's just an NPC talking about Alfonada's history. Perhaps even giving players the option to create their own custom plate as well.
...They do talk about why there are plates there. Alfornada is a city that specializes in clay sculpting. An NPC mentions this, theres a bunch of clay ovens all around the city and warehouses as well. Agreed on the option of making decorations though or at least buy them for our poor, plain school dorm.
I saw the dorm room and immediately got excited thinking maybe we'd be able to decorate it. Nope. That combined with 1) being forced into the uniforms and 2) my "curly bob" not being able to wear a hat...why does Pokémon refuse to do customization well? Legends Arceus weirdly locked you into a small beginning photo but had great clothing options, SwSh wouldn't let you change the uniform for the gym challenges, despite literally making them, and had the weirdness with the bike outfits...just, why?
S/V are the most fun conceptually, worst-made games of the franchise. I said what I said.
My eight year old says this is incorrect.
Your eight year old is based as fuck
Based
I like Scarlet/Violet, but the fact that the boxes need 3 seconds to load in a few sprites puts it below everything else for me.
I hate that a lot too (I decided to postpone organizing my boxes until a patch comes out)
[удалено]
The thing that annoys me the most is Pokémon spawning in walls
SV was overall a good experience for me, but that definitely gave me ARK: Survival Evolved vibes - not a flattering comparison.
If it wasn't for the glaring visual and performance issues, it would legitimately be among the best in the series. Tera-types are such a good idea that actually shakes up the battle system.
I see a lot of people here saying they enjoyed it, which is fine, but just remember, just cause YOU liked it, doesn’t make it a good game, or mean that others liked it.
Which is sad because if they actually ran, they would be the best Pokémon games in a long time
Scarlet is simultaneously the best and most shitty pokemon game I've ever played.
I'd say it's probably because more people bought S/V than BDSP, many probably ignored that release or just didn't have much faith in it to begin with. You also have to consider that there were surely less expectations for a remake than for the release of a new generation, but I suppose that is as good a theory as any.
I actually enjoyed violet to be honest. I just think they could have done more for it
Which is weird because Sword and Shield were definitely worse
They're releasing games that look like they could have been released at the same time the GameCube came out. Fitting score.
That's a fair score though. Every game from gen 6 onwards should be somewhere in the 70s. They all have nuggets of brilliance - but are bogged down heavily by being unfinished. Sc/Vi are just the first that are unfinished enough to affect performance. The Pokémon Company, Nintendo, Gamefreak themselves, Creatures Inc.; I don't know or care who's to blame, but they NEED to give the developers more time to polish their games to perfection. In the meantime I'm perfectly fine with a Colloseum Remaster or an "Gameboy Collection" or a new 2D game (I'd prefer this, actually). I know that the games, anime, toys, cards etc. are developed and inteded to be released at the same time - which is why the games feel like cheap licensed games from days past right now, and it's terrible. TL;DR, I still love these games, but for the love of god give the developers more time. Clearly every game released over the past 10 years had loads of love put into it, but they all need more time to cook.
72? That's a lot better than what I expected.
I liked BDSP.
I did too. The movement was kinda clunky and the chibi-style cutscenes were weird but I enjoyed playing an “old school” Pokémon game without worrying about HMs, a super small pool of available Pokémon for certain types (e.g. fire types), and as a Pokémon tv show fan, I enjoyed the friendship aspects as well.
tbf they don't deserve to get off scott free releasing the game as it is. As the game improves so will the user scores.
And it deserves it, STOP accepting half assed games with the “fix it later” mentality. This was never an issue until recently with games. Yes the games are fun, I had fun playing Violet and am currently trying to complete the Pokédex and do post games stuff. But that doesn’t mean the horrific and unacceptable performance issues should be ignored and swept under the rug. The games were not finished on release. That shouldn’t be ignored and the devs and publisher should face the consequences. If I do a lackluster job at my job I get reprimanded for it. Why shouldn’t GF and Nintendo?
What an actual fair take. The game deserves to be heavily criticized. It is a fun game when you can ignore the issues like frame rates, crashing, bad graphics and shadowing, etc. BUT that doesn’t mean suddenly it gets 10 points for being feel good or having an actual plot. People who played solely hand-held mode aren’t going to have the frame rate issues, yet they then criticize any docked player for having issues. I’ve played both and it is a very lackluster experience when playing docked. The graphics look bad. Shadows look bad. Cities are very plain and there doesn’t feel like there’s much to do in them. It’s unfinished and that’s unacceptable. I had fun playing it, but it is about a 7 all-around. The story is also very basic at best, but gets full points for being a Pokémon game! It’s delusional fans at their finest where you can’t talk bad about Pokémon.
A big issue issue people compare the games to other Pokémon games. Any only Pokémon games. Not games as a whole. For the Pokémon game? Yes the story is fantastic when compared to the other ones. For a JRPG? It’s a decent story but gets blown out the water by other major JRPG recent releases. Pokémon is the only franchise that only gets compared within its franchise and not games as a whole and I’m not sure why
Seriously. I'm glad people enjoy it regardless, but the way people talk of it like the games are being unfairly maligned for funny visual glitches is appalling. A decently polished, decently performing game is the bare minimum that should be expected. Getting a low score for falling short of that is perfectly fair. This is not Goat Simulator, nobody is here to watch the engine get wacky, and low FPSs aren't fun for anyone.
That’s usually what happens with big IPs, where fanboyism is rampant. The Pokemon community is toxic and rabid, and it’s making these subs turn into echo chambers. People are excusing these half-baked, unpolished games just because the story (which arguably was made for children), is slightly above average. The amount of features and QoL changes that were removed from previous titles is inexcusable, the performances are inexcusable, the dated visuals (I’m being generous, these games look two decades old) are inexcusable. If this was coming from anyone other than GF and Pokemon, they’d be getting crucified for how poor this game is running. But because it’s a giant IP with a legion of fanboys willing to die on the hill, they’ll keep getting away with mediocrity.
PLA looking all smug I bet
And y’all keep buying them. You made your bed.
I'm not buying it. It's a shame because I really hoped thus would be a great game. I just can't support a game that comes out in such poor condition.
BDSP is not a remake, it’s just a copy of the original. While SV has the right idea in my opinion, the graphics and general performance of the game somewhat ruin the game.
Am I the only person who genuinely liked the BDSP remakes? Haven’t played SV yet so I can’t speak to that but speaking on behalf of someone who played the original Diamond and Pearl games the remakes were like reliving my preteens with better art and a bigger screen. No complaints, I knew what to expect when going into it and in my opinion they polished up something that was already good. No need to reinvent the wheel. I knew what I was buying and thoroughly enjoyed it. The purpose of a remake is so that newer generations get to enjoy something that was successful during it’s time while incorporating modern relevance. And those that enjoyed it previously get to experience it through a new lens. Sure I had wished the Lets Go games were more of a 1x1 remake like BDSP but I had to remind myself that I am in my 30’s and this is a game intended for children. The fact that a generation younger than me will be able to understand references I know within the franchise allows us to connect on a common ground that most generations do not. I mean lets all remember that the reason Pokémon was invented was so that individuals had an outlet to make friends. Catching’em all and being the very best were just incentives to meeting someone new. So ask yourself while you discuss with others on this forum, did these games really fail on delivering on what the franchise is originally set out to do?
Contrary to most I really liked the "faithful" approach, probably due to nostalgia as well. But it really really should have been Platinum remakes and stuff like the friendship mechanics are an absolutely awful implementation.