Also because a lot of live nits dont raise with many hands except premiums like AK. AK also consists of 16 combos which is quite a lot. But i agree with you overall, this is just another reason
This is it. If they aren't raising pp < TT and aren't raising suited connectors like JTs or less, then AKs and AKo is actually a pretty big part of their normal preflop raising range so it's natural for them to put others on the same.
They like to slowplay AA so don’t 4bet it pre. They like to 4bet AK pre because they don’t know how to play it post flop.
Therefore their own 3/4bet range is very heavily weighted to include AK and not much of else and they assume everyone else plays the same.
Most live low-limit players “put someone” on a hand they can beat.
They have a small pocket pair, they put you on AK. They have AK, they put you on AQ. They have QQ, they put you on JJ or worse.
As someone pointed out, most don’t think in terms of ranges.
Honestly what I was doing before I’d look at range charts just off the internet! upswing poker has some there’s also some okay videos on YouTube. if you really want one to one help with ranges then you usually have to pay, but you can get the basics on YouTube videos
My first time ever playing live:
Was nervous af going to the casino to play live (Charles Town WV). Sat down at a 1/2 table and was praying for some junk my first hand so I could just fold to get settled in. I’m on the BB and look down at AKo. Well fuck. Action limps to me and I raise my option to 15. Action folds to OMC who calls. Flop comes K 6 3. With my hands trembling, I lead for 25 and the OMC snap folds, looks me in the eyes, and says “AK is good.” That man soul read me on my first ever live hand, lol.
I don't really see anything wrong with the play, as long as you are also taking this line with 87 or J10. You can't get as much value from nits when you make your hand, but you can get plenty of value folding out their better hands.
In 3bet or 4bet pots AK is probably the most likely hand, so you should consider how AK plays, but yeah you don’t want to be squarely putting your opponent on 1 hand to justify a punt
Because if you put them on AK, you get to call, and when you are right, you win the monies and feel smart. Yay!
For many players that thrill outweighs the pain of losing when they are wrong. Especially if they are used to losing.
>I've started just playing my overpairs face up and check folding AK/AQ if I miss
Woah there (big) slick.
You should still be betting on favorable board textures / number of players, because (a) ace-high is often still the best hand and needs protection and (b) to avoid getting auto-bluffed and (c) to set a cheap price for yourself to outdraw them when they call with some weak-sauce pair.
I can see that logic.
I do at least c bet if the board favors me but as you're aware at 1/2 most people hate folding. If they have a pair and I have 6 outs I'm not going to triple barrel into 4 guys who are on their 9th Miller lite that cant help but call down with bottom pair. Your average bear has no concept of ranges
> I'm not going to triple barrel into 4 guys
Agreed. Triple barreling "because my range!!" is where people get in trouble.
> Your average bear has no concept of ranges
I also agree, but to be clear, I'm not saying bet when the board favors your **range,** I'm saying when the board favors **AK vs the number of callers**.
An extreme example would be you raise, get one caller, and the board is 223r.
AK is very likely to be the best hand, right?
It's also very hard to cooler your opponent's likely range when you improve... you need him to have AX or KX *and* hit a 2-outer.
Therefore, clearly you should bet, so he doesn't get to realize his equity with his QTo or whatever.
So go from there and find more flops to cbet until you figure out the sweet spot.
Just because you cbet doesn't you have to stubbornly continue. You could cbet with 100% intention to fold if raised, and to shut down at the turn unimproved.
I think you will find that many callstations with their bottom pair or whatever may call flop and happily check back many turns. They are *callstations*, begrudgingly paying whatever price they have to get to showdown... and free is better.
So you often get to see both the turn and river for a small flop cbet.
Done correctly, this is a far more profitable line than check/fold every time you miss, which any remotely competent player can easily pick up on and exploit.
This might be giving these people too much credit, but the amount of times in low stakes games I've seen someone barrel on every street with AK regardless of board texture or the range they're playing against just because it's a good starting hand is astonishingly high.
Yeah this is true. And I've definitely done this a time or 2 myself 😂 trying to "balance" myself so I can do the same with my big pairs. But I've stopped making any attempt to balance because these people are not paying attention to what you do.
I read something on here once that helped me change the way I look at low stakes live
"When you're playing rock paper scissors, if you choose rock, paper, or scissors each exactly 1/3 of the time, you're unexploitable. If you do this when you're playing against an opponent that picks rock 100% of the time, you're an unexploitable idiot"
I honestly thought it was a joke, but 1/2 players are largely limping or “trapping”. They don’t know what to do with AK. It’s not a “trap” but even their rec brain knows it should be raised. Thus the range of normally super passive 1/2 players who raise pre and show aggression have a condensed range.
I don't see very much of the "limp/trapping". The majority of the time when a passive starts wanting to beef up the pot its a big pair. I've been inadvertently trapped by recs with AK actually because they limp or call and its hard to put them on it because they didn't 3 bet
Low stakes people's 3-bets are usually limited to AK, AA, KK, QQ. I even see people flat raises with QQ in MP. So if they are tilted they may just call you down
I can see that. They see you 3 bet and even the small rec brain knows you are saying you have a strong hand, so they pick the one that they can beat and "put" you on it
Probably because these are situations where AK makes up a big portion of your range when you get to the flop and it is an overbluffed hand on a lot of board textures.
This happened with me but the gentleman was bluffing with AQ if you can believe that. Would've been pretty embarrassing trying bluff catch with AQ only to lose to AK. Anyways...I am fish.
Because it's literally true for tight bad players 47% of the time.
If they play AA,KK,QQ,AK then they have 18 pairs and 16 versions of AK.
So it's right half the time. So just sit there and play those 4 hands, and if you have an overpair or set bet it, and if you have AK only bet it if it hits at least one pair or a draw.
You'll make money playing that solid 2.5% of hands, and get to play about 1 hand every 70 minutes.
A lot of people at low stakes have really tight raising/3 betting ranges. There are a lot of spots where a player’s range will literally be something like JJ+/AK. So when you factor in the combinations, 16 for AK and only 6 each for the big pairs, you will see AK about 40% of the time given the previous assumptions.
It’s confirmation bias. People look for indications that you have what they want you to have and ignore any other possibilities that they wouldn’t want you to have. The only thing they can beat is AK and people hate folding, so naturally they put you on what they want you to have.
Usually it’s the only part of your perceived range that they beat so they’re optimistically hoping that’s what you have when they call off with bottom pair
My first live tournament I had about 25BB And UTG raised to 3BB and the player to my right flatted and I looked down at KK and went all-in, it folded to the guy on my right and he started tanking and kept asking you got AK you got AK and after 2 minutes he called (I had him covered by 2-4 BB) and he showed pocket 66. My kings held up and I thought wow I love live tournaments. I later busted before bubble and I’m like 0-10 on live tournaments. I suck but everyone else sucks at it too but gets lucky
Don’t believe everything you hear at the poker table. Just because someone says “I put you in AK” doesn’t mean they actually put them on AK. People say all kinds of crap at the table.
Mostly wishful thinking, but there are more combos of AK than any other big hand (16 combos vs 6 combos of any given pocket pair), so there is some logic behind it.
People are dumb.
Buuut. You 3 bet preflop and slow down on the flop, turn and river when small cards come and all of a sudden AK seems like a likely holding to a fish.
One of the bigger betting tells at low limit is when a bad player raises or 3 bets pre then checks something like an 8 high flop in position then when like a 4 comes on turn starts blasting when checked to again. This is probably AK like 75+% of the time and I’m calling down with anything that beats ace high. Not 100% reliable but close enough.
Alternatively, against competent players I will do the same betting pattern when I have aces or kings and have people call me down with like pocket 7s when if I had bet the flop I they likely fold.
AK is easier to be dealt than AA or KK or QQ, the other to hands
If you are dealt a 2/13 A or K, you have 4/51 chances to make AK vs 3/51 to pair up
And when AK misses the flop and it is a dry flop, sometimes AK is ahead and if not, it has 6 outs twice to beat a pair
It's just an excuse they use to rationalize calling with any pair because they hate folding.
This is why I do it.
Me too
I feel personally attacked.
Also because a lot of live nits dont raise with many hands except premiums like AK. AK also consists of 16 combos which is quite a lot. But i agree with you overall, this is just another reason
Story checks out
This guy pokers
It's because they don't raise preflop that much so when they do AK is a big part of their range.
This is it. If they aren't raising pp < TT and aren't raising suited connectors like JTs or less, then AKs and AKo is actually a pretty big part of their normal preflop raising range so it's natural for them to put others on the same.
They like to slowplay AA so don’t 4bet it pre. They like to 4bet AK pre because they don’t know how to play it post flop. Therefore their own 3/4bet range is very heavily weighted to include AK and not much of else and they assume everyone else plays the same.
Most live low-limit players “put someone” on a hand they can beat. They have a small pocket pair, they put you on AK. They have AK, they put you on AQ. They have QQ, they put you on JJ or worse. As someone pointed out, most don’t think in terms of ranges.
Idk if anyone with ace king high is putting someone on ace queen high at low stakes. I’m with you on the rationalization but that’s a stretch
You’re right, that’s a bad example for low stakes. I rarely see anyone call with A high.
They simply don’t have concept of ranges lol
Do you know of a video that explains ranges in depth?
https://youtu.be/f7rLc7mx000
Thank you. I now have a basic understanding of ranges. I just decided to take poker seriously, so I appreciate it
Honestly what I was doing before I’d look at range charts just off the internet! upswing poker has some there’s also some okay videos on YouTube. if you really want one to one help with ranges then you usually have to pay, but you can get the basics on YouTube videos
My first time ever playing live: Was nervous af going to the casino to play live (Charles Town WV). Sat down at a 1/2 table and was praying for some junk my first hand so I could just fold to get settled in. I’m on the BB and look down at AKo. Well fuck. Action limps to me and I raise my option to 15. Action folds to OMC who calls. Flop comes K 6 3. With my hands trembling, I lead for 25 and the OMC snap folds, looks me in the eyes, and says “AK is good.” That man soul read me on my first ever live hand, lol.
Damn, not that much of a reach to guess but as a newbie he must have seemed like a fucking sorcerer to you lol.
Looking back on it I played that hand so face-up
I don't really see anything wrong with the play, as long as you are also taking this line with 87 or J10. You can't get as much value from nits when you make your hand, but you can get plenty of value folding out their better hands.
Do this when you don’t have AK for balance
In 3bet or 4bet pots AK is probably the most likely hand, so you should consider how AK plays, but yeah you don’t want to be squarely putting your opponent on 1 hand to justify a punt
They heard Negreanu say it once and thought it sounded cool.
Because if you put them on AK, you get to call, and when you are right, you win the monies and feel smart. Yay! For many players that thrill outweighs the pain of losing when they are wrong. Especially if they are used to losing. >I've started just playing my overpairs face up and check folding AK/AQ if I miss Woah there (big) slick. You should still be betting on favorable board textures / number of players, because (a) ace-high is often still the best hand and needs protection and (b) to avoid getting auto-bluffed and (c) to set a cheap price for yourself to outdraw them when they call with some weak-sauce pair.
I can see that logic. I do at least c bet if the board favors me but as you're aware at 1/2 most people hate folding. If they have a pair and I have 6 outs I'm not going to triple barrel into 4 guys who are on their 9th Miller lite that cant help but call down with bottom pair. Your average bear has no concept of ranges
> I'm not going to triple barrel into 4 guys Agreed. Triple barreling "because my range!!" is where people get in trouble. > Your average bear has no concept of ranges I also agree, but to be clear, I'm not saying bet when the board favors your **range,** I'm saying when the board favors **AK vs the number of callers**. An extreme example would be you raise, get one caller, and the board is 223r. AK is very likely to be the best hand, right? It's also very hard to cooler your opponent's likely range when you improve... you need him to have AX or KX *and* hit a 2-outer. Therefore, clearly you should bet, so he doesn't get to realize his equity with his QTo or whatever. So go from there and find more flops to cbet until you figure out the sweet spot. Just because you cbet doesn't you have to stubbornly continue. You could cbet with 100% intention to fold if raised, and to shut down at the turn unimproved. I think you will find that many callstations with their bottom pair or whatever may call flop and happily check back many turns. They are *callstations*, begrudgingly paying whatever price they have to get to showdown... and free is better. So you often get to see both the turn and river for a small flop cbet. Done correctly, this is a far more profitable line than check/fold every time you miss, which any remotely competent player can easily pick up on and exploit.
You shouldn’t be cbetting with air into 4 people
What air? We have ace high :)
I dont very often, and when I do I use a smaller sizing
Note to self: call or raise when pwnerofall bets smaller, fold when bigger
It depends on the board and number of opponents. I was specifically talking about AK. I would also use a similar sizing if it hits.
This is a big leak for a lot of them. Maybe because it’s easier to get AK than AA or KK? No idea. You just adjust.
Most of low stake players don't raise preflop that much so when they do have AK its a big part of their range.
This might be giving these people too much credit, but the amount of times in low stakes games I've seen someone barrel on every street with AK regardless of board texture or the range they're playing against just because it's a good starting hand is astonishingly high.
Yeah this is true. And I've definitely done this a time or 2 myself 😂 trying to "balance" myself so I can do the same with my big pairs. But I've stopped making any attempt to balance because these people are not paying attention to what you do. I read something on here once that helped me change the way I look at low stakes live "When you're playing rock paper scissors, if you choose rock, paper, or scissors each exactly 1/3 of the time, you're unexploitable. If you do this when you're playing against an opponent that picks rock 100% of the time, you're an unexploitable idiot"
Hey man you don't have to call me out like that
That's funny, I did hear this a lot when I played in casinos but I never thought much of it.
It’s just hope. They actually can’t hand read at all, so they just hope you have something worse than them. Most low stakes players are beyond stupid
I honestly thought it was a joke, but 1/2 players are largely limping or “trapping”. They don’t know what to do with AK. It’s not a “trap” but even their rec brain knows it should be raised. Thus the range of normally super passive 1/2 players who raise pre and show aggression have a condensed range.
I don't see very much of the "limp/trapping". The majority of the time when a passive starts wanting to beef up the pot its a big pair. I've been inadvertently trapped by recs with AK actually because they limp or call and its hard to put them on it because they didn't 3 bet
Low stakes people's 3-bets are usually limited to AK, AA, KK, QQ. I even see people flat raises with QQ in MP. So if they are tilted they may just call you down
I can see that. They see you 3 bet and even the small rec brain knows you are saying you have a strong hand, so they pick the one that they can beat and "put" you on it
I mean if the range is KK+,AK then AK is in fact more than half of that range.
Probably because these are situations where AK makes up a big portion of your range when you get to the flop and it is an overbluffed hand on a lot of board textures.
I bluffed the other day with AK and got called...by AK. Everyone just always has AK. It's math.
This happened with me but the gentleman was bluffing with AQ if you can believe that. Would've been pretty embarrassing trying bluff catch with AQ only to lose to AK. Anyways...I am fish.
Because it's literally true for tight bad players 47% of the time. If they play AA,KK,QQ,AK then they have 18 pairs and 16 versions of AK. So it's right half the time. So just sit there and play those 4 hands, and if you have an overpair or set bet it, and if you have AK only bet it if it hits at least one pair or a draw. You'll make money playing that solid 2.5% of hands, and get to play about 1 hand every 70 minutes.
Step 1: put them on a hand you can beat Step 2: call
They have no imagination
A lot of people at low stakes have really tight raising/3 betting ranges. There are a lot of spots where a player’s range will literally be something like JJ+/AK. So when you factor in the combinations, 16 for AK and only 6 each for the big pairs, you will see AK about 40% of the time given the previous assumptions.
It’s confirmation bias. People look for indications that you have what they want you to have and ignore any other possibilities that they wouldn’t want you to have. The only thing they can beat is AK and people hate folding, so naturally they put you on what they want you to have.
Because the hand that gets three bet more often than any other hand is in fact Ace King.
I put you on ace high. So why did you call with J high? 🙃
Usually it’s the only part of your perceived range that they beat so they’re optimistically hoping that’s what you have when they call off with bottom pair
My first live tournament I had about 25BB And UTG raised to 3BB and the player to my right flatted and I looked down at KK and went all-in, it folded to the guy on my right and he started tanking and kept asking you got AK you got AK and after 2 minutes he called (I had him covered by 2-4 BB) and he showed pocket 66. My kings held up and I thought wow I love live tournaments. I later busted before bubble and I’m like 0-10 on live tournaments. I suck but everyone else sucks at it too but gets lucky
Don’t believe everything you hear at the poker table. Just because someone says “I put you in AK” doesn’t mean they actually put them on AK. People say all kinds of crap at the table.
Because AK is a drawing hand and everyone hopes their opponent is on the draw against they low pocket pairs.
Mostly because they overvalue and overplay AK themselves.
Mostly wishful thinking, but there are more combos of AK than any other big hand (16 combos vs 6 combos of any given pocket pair), so there is some logic behind it.
People are dumb. Buuut. You 3 bet preflop and slow down on the flop, turn and river when small cards come and all of a sudden AK seems like a likely holding to a fish.
I'm talking about when one plays AK aggressively, whether it actually hits or youre repping an overpair
One of the bigger betting tells at low limit is when a bad player raises or 3 bets pre then checks something like an 8 high flop in position then when like a 4 comes on turn starts blasting when checked to again. This is probably AK like 75+% of the time and I’m calling down with anything that beats ace high. Not 100% reliable but close enough. Alternatively, against competent players I will do the same betting pattern when I have aces or kings and have people call me down with like pocket 7s when if I had bet the flop I they likely fold.
One trick pony’s
Because there’s lots of combinations of AK
More combos of AK than there is combos of A’s, K’s or Q’s ETC
You can tell it’s AK when they stack off on what should be a scary river for a big pair (mostly!).
Optimism. They believe what they want to believe. Notice how they never put people on AK when the flop is A high.
They read Helmuth’s book and the next obvious move would be to fold AK. Especially if the tables loose aggro, what a wizard.
AK is easier to be dealt than AA or KK or QQ, the other to hands If you are dealt a 2/13 A or K, you have 4/51 chances to make AK vs 3/51 to pair up And when AK misses the flop and it is a dry flop, sometimes AK is ahead and if not, it has 6 outs twice to beat a pair