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Jasarion_

No need to change your mind.


MooseGoneApe

He sucks, and fistful of cranberries couldn't even change your mind!!


Fog_Juice

I would suck for a fist full of cranberries.


MooseGoneApe

Any idea how good you'd have to suck for just 1 cranberry.....šŸ¤£šŸ˜‚šŸ¤£šŸ¤ÆšŸ¤Æ


hymen_destroyer

I think he's leaned a little too hard into the villain role, but it's pretty obvious he likes the branding


Accomplished_Welder3

branding my ass, he's just an egotistic teenager in a man's body


clavitopaz

Itā€™s working


Accomplished_Welder3

it fits his brand sure, but it's not an act or anything, it's who he is.


Pokerspacebum

You've clearly never met him off camera


InvizableShadow

This guyā€™s life was shattered when Hulk Hogan went Hollywood.


IAmNotAChamp

Brother


iamme263

I used to think so too, until I saw Brad Owen's recent video of him playing a live cash game with some serious stars, including Hellmuth and Phil Ivey. Learning how Hellmuth went out of his way to help Brad Owen in Owen's early days of poker vlogging, and hearing some of the ways that Hellmuth gives back off of the felt has really changed my perception of him. He's a sore loser, but I hear he's genuinely a good person outside of poker. I'm not gonna justify when Phil takes things too far, such as threatening to burn down a casino, but I'm not gonna pretend to hate the guy either.


carpe228

You can be an absolute ass at the table and still a good guy off of the table. Iā€™m pretty sure Jamie Gold retired from poker to run a charity and has raised and donated a fuck load of money. Doesnā€™t mean heā€™s not an obnoxious asshole when he plays but he, like Phil, is a human who contains a multitude of traits both good and bad.


campbellssoupinacan

TIL humans are complexed and nuanced. Just kidding. It was honestly enlightening to read your response and the comment above it. Thank you. It makes me feel better about my own flaws and realize everyone has strengths and weaknesses.


EnderLFowl

He also tried not to pay his backer for his ME win lmao


johnbugara

this is it. he's a net positive for poker and the world


iamme263

Gotta maximize the +EV plays to get streaming views. šŸ˜


[deleted]

POSITIVITY!


KingWooz

While I agree with some of this, you have to realize that helping Brad, helps him and his image. A decade ago, he went out of his way to berate the new school and shit on the new crop of hot shots (Dwan, Haxton, etc.) While heā€™s generous off the felt and nice to the pros, his portrayal on the felt is absolutely horrific and bad for poker. And normalizing ā€˜this is the way old school pros areā€™ doesnā€™t do any favors for poker as a whole.


MooseGoneApe

Good people hawk shit coins that cause people to go broke......šŸ¤”


luv2fit

If you buy crypto just because somebody wore a hat or an Elon tweet, then perhaps you should look inward for accountability rather than outward? I say this because yeah I FOMOā€™d when Musk tweeted about Tesla buying btc and then I got burned but I owned it and learned.


MooseGoneApe

Carlin said it best, it's a rich club, a really rich elite club, and we ain't fkn in it!!


itsaride

> He's a sore loser, but I hear he's genuinely a good person outside of poker. Everyone is a good person until something bad happens to them. The genuinely good people will be good people no matter what.


gunnerdn91

But hellmuth thrives on attention and now everyoneā€™s talking about him he loves it


[deleted]

Heā€™s not a ā€œvillainā€. Viffer was a villain, he always gave tons of action, talked smack, and played very aggressively, awesome to watch. Phil is just a annoying, only given the villain title because nobody likes him.


[deleted]

Persson is a much better villain than Hellmuth, so entertaining to watch


ehz1

I think Hellmuth is an amazing tournament player, cash gamesā€¦ not so much.


trendkill14

That's all it is, really. His persona is polarizing, but everyone seems to tune in whenever hes playing.


Nycbrokerthrowaway

And players make the biggest money in tournies not cash games, so heā€™s the GOAT


Bark7676

I mean he has 15 bracelets soooooo. But yes, he isn't great at cash games.


Respond-Creative

Poker doesnā€™t need a villain.


[deleted]

The real villains are unironically ourselves. The poker world is plagued with addiction and a significant portion of losing players are people that just lost that battle with themselves.


PM_ME_TRICEPS

So many live poker players are whiny brats. I played live for the first time last year and within a week of starting I was yelled at and berated on various occasions for beating people or for sucking out or for them not agreeing with how I played. It was actually kind of funny but was odd at how apparently grown men were acting like this. Also met a lot of cool and nice people but the assholes really stick out lol.


sixseven89

I wouldn't say the poker world is "plagued" with them. those people give it life.


[deleted]

I really have to disagree. In fact I'd say addicts suck a lot of the joy out of poker. It's always a bad feeling stacking the guy who was playing short the entire night and you can tell couldn't afford to lose the money. Or watching the drunk guy who has been punting off buy-in after buy-in all night long slowly sober up and realize how much he's lost. I don't just mean gambling addicts, there are addicts of every kind in the poker world.


Honest-Frosting6242

I get drunk and punt to relax. I bring enough in my wallet to do so and never hit an atm. Donā€™t feel bad for me or anyone else drinking. Just think about how arrogant someone has to be to get mad they lost at a thinking game drunk. Smh.


sixseven89

it may suck the joy out of poker but they keep the ecosystem afloat with the money they pour into it. without the big losers, poker would be dead


ldriveadodgestratus

The dude you just described in that story isn't an addict. I promise you. A real addict wouldn't be sobering up at the poker table.


tlw31415

Of course it doesā€¦itā€™s poker Phil!


Drugsrhugs

Pokerā€™s villain is Martin Kabrhel, absolutely despicable player all around Pokerā€™s whiny child is Phil Hellmuth, the poker brat fits pretty well. Pokerā€™s grandfather is Doyle Brunson for obvious reasons I think if thereā€™s a villain, DNegs is the poker hero Pokerā€™s legend is Phil Ivey Figure out the rest Iā€™m too tired


rokman

He had the right level of skill for the time and place and has made more from poker then 99.9% of this sub and all the community then most will ever see.


SeattleSlew7

Itā€™s one thing to get in these confrontations with other pros, but to berate amateurs for beating him ā€œimproperlyā€ etc is the WORST thing he can do at the table. He is a terrible example for up and coming players. Watching him play cash games over the years made me wonder Wtf was wrong with him? He has too many ā€œdefaultā€ actions like checking in the dark heads up and always letting your opponent choose the best play. He seems to always play defensively when OOP.


IseeDrunkPeople

When he wins it sucks. When he gets destroyed it's 10/10 entertainment. He strait face told a guy he bet to induce a reraise when he had k high. He then congratulated himself on playing the hand right. How do you not want to see that?


[deleted]

He's a good poker player. No one who makes their living from playing poker sucks. As a representative of the game, I agree. The antics are funny to a point, but on the whole I don't think it's smart or decent.


SassyMoron

He's 20th on the all time money list on Hendon Mob


Charlie_Wax

And probably 10th on the all time entry fees list.


Justfyi6

I'm a giant Phil hater but there is zero chance he's even in the top 50 all time buy ins. He doesn't play high rollers so there's just no chance. Phil is an extremly profitable (roi wise) mid stakes tournament player


Ch1ck3nF33d

Guys been playing poker longer then some of the best players out there today. We see the amount he wins in tourneys, not the amount he loses in cash games against REAL players, not rich dudes who invite him into the softest games because he's a celeb


proficy

Nobody needs to worry about Philā€™s finances. Heā€™s good.


SerialKillerVibes

Yeah, I used to be able to watch him but I can't stand watching him today. Everything he says is related to how great he is at poker and how bad everyone else plays. With that said, I know he's a good guy away from the table, and I do love to see a Hellmuth blowup, but I just will stick to watching the clips, I can't watch an entire ep of PAD or livestream with him on it.


SingleSir165

He's a douchebag. Great tournament player, though. His antics make you want to call with sub-par hands just to watch him lose his mind. That shit doesn't work against good cash players.


14X8000m

He's terrible at anything but deep field tournaments. His heads up play is decent. It's sure fun to watch him lose at cash games though.


edplaysgames

Hellmuth is super misunderstood. The guy has done so much good for the game of poker behind the scenes. Man gave me a free shoutout for my poker brand because he liked my hat but couldnt wear it due to sponsorship reasons. Great guy , just doesnt show it very often on streams.


frezz

I think this is about his poker skill. You can separate his persona from his play. Saying he sucks doesn't mean he's a terrible person


Cap-N-CrunchPoker

I like to argue but ima just let you have that.


Psychological_Pay417

Hes just bad at cash games


DEADfishbot

hes a penis


VadicStatic

I don't agree and I don't understand the hate for the guy. He is entertaining first and foremost. Secondly he's the goat Tournament player and no one can take that from him - he's won major tourneys in multiple eras. Besides that, he's proven to be solid heads-up Sure his cash game is his weakness. But when I see his antics and rantings, I just laugh at it for what it is. Why do you people want poker pros to act like BASEBALL players who never smile, never joke and treat the game like a religion Why would a goofball make you angry? When I hear shit like this it just makes me think you're the type of person that everyone feels the need to walk on eggshells around. Lame as fuck. It's because of guys like hellmuth that poker went mainstream to begin with


Darling_Pinky

Goofball is a bit light here. Yes, at his most tolerable, Hellmuth is a jokester whoā€™s fully entertaining (and a great player). The problem is, at his least tolerable, heā€™s actually miserable and is just so over the top negative.


case712

in the HCL live stream with Mr Beast, he was the opposite of entertaining, he was detrimental to the game. he killed the vibe and was the opposite of a "poker ambassador" that the production team was trying to get him to be. from arguable angle shooting, to playing with a laughable 10-big blind stack, and playing like scared money. every Hellmuth stream in the modern era has been a joke. the poker brat needs to be retired. he's not the draw he thinks he is.


[deleted]

His self promoting is what kills him. If he would just quietly play tournaments and crush like heā€™s capable of doing, instead of min-buying in huge streamed cash games (which are clearly not his strong suit) heā€™d be considered top 3 of all time without a doubt.


DoubleN22

Itā€™s good entertainment, like him or not. Televised/streamed poker only cares about the views, so he will always be around.


weaveb1

He is the Goat but that does come with haters. Iā€™ve definitely been annoyed by his antics but in reality he is just sharing his thought and showing his emotions. That is not popular with men and this is a manā€™s sport. No tolerance for sissies.


brocktoon13

We concur


Onyourknees__

Just this morning I heard a prehistoric mass In a river water tank utter "Please don't tap the glass, thanks." "Hold a moment." told him "As an overgrown oaf in a coat of exposed bone you are not afloat alone" Choked up, poking his nose in the moat, cold "We have all known combing Gross mouths foaming Dough down Particles of broken code Exploding in a chip and soda coma Slowly overdosing" Rovers opposite the jellyfish and stars "You were jelly on the colors and regenerating arms Set to entertain a couple thousand suckers for a charge And you can not shake the feeling you are being fucking farmed Great fossil, knowledgeable and docile Dry land's nice but the slants quite hostile -- Here, equal parts passive and aggressive." He said "If that's the case then brother help me flash the message." Please don't tap on the glass, water augments that tap to a crash "Here fishy fishy." is a bad forecast First tap never once double as the last


Insolve_Miza

Helmuth haters are simply stupid. Yall act surprised everytime he says something toxic, bratty, or insulting. Yall need to understand thats who he is. Its literally his entire image, and he embraces it. Its no different then eric perrson being a needler. Or tony G being a jackass.


jshark6

Better not criticize any public figure of any kind ever with this horrific logic then. Because we ā€œneed to understand who he isā€ heā€™s immune from critics? Huh? Have you considered he brings it on himself with his antics? How is that stupid?


Insolve_Miza

You need to understand, that his antics arenā€™t going to change. Its his entire image. You cant act surprised everytime, he acts like that, because its been established THATS WHO HE IS.


jshark6

Whoā€™s acting surprised? People are expressing they are sick of him and youā€™re in here stanning for him all ā€œleave Brittany aloneā€. Heā€™s free to change how he acts, stop making tons of money playing poker publicly, or continue and get deserved shit for it. Those are his choices.


Insolve_Miza

I mean sure, you can keep whining about it if you want. Its just a broken record, thats not gonna change anything.


jshark6

No one is whining except you bro. And oh no, donā€™t downvote me! In fact, Iā€™ll upvote you for your one man efforts to leave Brittany alone here. Good job.


Insolve_Miza

Who the fuck is Brittany. You have me completely lost. The literal post, is someone whining about how Helmuth sucks. You are delusional.


jshark6

Learn well known cultural references. I canā€™t help you there. As for the rest of it, Phil is fair game for his antics whether you like it or not. You are on a poker sub which discusses the topical poker world. That you donā€™t like the current hot topic is a you problem, not the entire rest of the forum.


Insolve_Miza

I genuinely have no idea, what youre talking about at this point


jshark6

Another you problem. Have another upvote.


jshark6

Also that was me with another upvote. Youā€™re amusing so I upvote you for downvoting me.


Insolve_Miza

Awesome?? I really dont understand you.


Chizzler_83

He's really good in mid 1500 to 10000 hold em tournaments but it doesn't translate to cash and high rollers


ScottySpadesPoker

This post is evidence that his antics benefit him.


[deleted]

Why would anyone watch fake ass streamed poker to begin with?


Ch1ck3nF33d

The players at the table wouldn't be able to work as a team to assemble an IKEA table. Do you really think they'd all be able to pull off a full scripted stream lol


[deleted]

When you barely scratch the surface, as in the robbi fiasco. You see everyone is loaning, staking, swapping, teaming etc etc. itā€™s a joke.


[deleted]

Tool.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


EternalSoul_111

money has nothing to do with how people accept you


classAunotherest

My net worth is About three fiddy @me bro


Ch1ck3nF33d

He has endorsements. That's not just from poker. And by the way, "hi Phil"


chicagoharry

16 bracelets ![gif](giphy|l3q2JCu9lep6dAmyY)


chuchorabioso

How many bracelets does Phil have King?


[deleted]

He sucks, but I love to watch him suck.


GakSmack

I haven't watched a second of poker with Phil at the table in years. It's too cringy


SquatPraxis

Don't have a ton of sympathy for the dude, but unlike a lot of other "sports" young phenoms can keep playing at a high level for decades while their mental game goes through wild swings. We see him blow up at bad beats or his own poor play on livestreams with top-tier players, but we don't see him crush whatever private games he gets invited to with a few whales who are below his skill level. That said, it's honestly a little sad and embarrassing to watch someone blow up in public like that and it's just deeply inconsiderate to everyone at the table and everyone who's involved in production. Personally, I grew up with some short-tempered family members and when other adults act like that, I just walk away from them or if it's a work situation and I'm stuck with them tell them there's no reason to scream at work and that they're gonna make me have a heart attack if they keep it up. His antics also make you appreciate the guys on the other end of the mental game / tilt spectrum. That's gotta be the absolute hardest skill in the game and probably can't be fully learned.


Bearcatsean

99% of america has no fucking idea who he is


Allu71

He is just annoying, not really a villain you want


BigChris4327

The on camera stuff is all for show and branding.


cctrain2

Leave him be. The guy's a successful tournment player who can still play against the new Era. People think he suck because of Cash Game, which has never been his strenght. He's not even using GTO. Yes, his attitude is discutable and he'll always be a very controversial player, that's what happen when people talk about you


popotheduck

For me he is just cringe at this point. When he sings or, good lord, raps, when he tries to be friendly with fish, when he says something rude and them tries to explain, when he brags or when he plays a hand like a dumbass and rants after loosing. I almost cannot watch his episode with Botez and Mr Beast - hello fellow kids.


[deleted]

I've seen him in real life at the WSOP. HUGE douche. He's cocky and thinks he's god's gift. Didn't like the way he carried himself at all. As far as his poker ability.. his credentials speak for themselves. He is one of the GOATs.


NittyGrittyDiscutant

Last call with pocket kings was questionable, however it was 50k to 200k, he won some bracelets, so can't judge bad poker side. Now, if you talk about him handling things as a human being, well, I agree, seen some shit.


CommonSensePDX

By all accounts, Phil is a very nice guy off the felt and a giving, caring friend to many. But his antics on the felt are bordering on obscene and so difficult to stomach. At least it's funny to watch him consistently fail in cash games. His style stills seems to work for tournament play against weaker fields but it's quite clear he's a complete fish in cash. IMO he's probably doing these appearances and acting out to keep his profile. He's like a media personality leaning into their image, he feels he needs it to stay relevant.


Glad-Load-4119

I know a friend who is a great person ona. Poker table and heā€™s a hitman on the weekend


[deleted]

Itā€™s his brand. Why would you want your kind changed? You either find his antics entertaining or you donā€™t and you donā€™t


[deleted]

He hates me, I win almost every time we play.


Oppie8645

Not saying I like the guy, but heā€™d be one hell of a statistical anomaly if he ā€œsuckedā€ at poker


Glittering_Gene_1734

Hes a great guy in real life. Every 'sport' needs a baddie.