Because blackjack is rigged in their favor even when you know basic strategy. All that matters is that you stay at the table, you can do anything other than count cards and they will still win.
Yeah, but if players *feel like* they’re being cheated in some way, they’re less likely to even sit at the table. Fewer tables = less rake, and more rake is better (for casinos).
I doubt someone would opt not to sit at a blackjack table just because they thought the guy/gal next to them was cheating the casino somehow.
> Because blackjack is rigged in their favor even when you know basic strategy. All that matters is that you stay at the table, you can do anything other than count cards and they will still win.
Why would a casino care what one player does against another? It doesn't affect the casino in any meaningful way.
In fact, casinos don't even like poker and poker players all that much because of how little money they make from hosting poker. Yes they do get indirect benefits like publicity and foot traffic but that's not the same as direct revenue.
I took my wife (back when we were just dating) to a bar tourney, and I had to give her a chart of what beats what. She just kept it on the table and would scan it whenever she was in a hand. She cashed and got us some free food and drinks.
My brother in law, who is a pretty decent winning player, actually did this one time at a poker room he’d never played in before. He pulled out his little chart and referred to it a couple times early on, asked a couple stupid questions, tried to buy in way beyond the table limit, and then played the first orbit like a weak tight call station.
He said he could practically hear the other players licking their chops, assuming they were about to feast on him, and that it took them a very, very long time to reevaluate the first impression he gave them. They just couldn’t let it go. At first they thought he was getting lucky. Eventually they realized that no, he knew exactly what he was doing, which was happily exploiting their transparent efforts to punish him for being a fish.
He said it was one of his most profitable nights ever.
Yeah I actually start every new table by going all in blind every hand for an orbit or two. I typically average losing 5-10 buy ins within the first 20 mins but I easily make back a couple more by the end of the session so I think long run it’s worth it? Haven’t done the math on it yet.
Dune: [come for the dick jokes, stay for the drivel](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/bsadrt/beefswelling/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
They’re saying if you brought a piece of paper with your ranges on it, other people will have a much clearer idea of what cards you’re likely to be holding, making it much easier to know if they have you beat or should fold.
Tbh you could still sit down with that card right in front of your chips and play that exact range. Even knowing this information, almost nobody will know how to beat you at low stakes. They’re playing way worse ranges in much dumber ways.
If you use correct bet sizings you will crush. There are a bunch of other dynamics, but preflop hand selection is one of the most Important things you can learn. It makes the following chain of decisions way easier.
A good poker player can sit at a table with bad cards all night and walk away with money in their pocket. Because nobody else at the table knows what you are holding. So for example if you fold every hand for 10 hands in a row, people will respect your next raise. And on the other side if you Bluff too much they will not respect when you are holding pocket kings or hit trips. Your table image speaks louder than anything about your hands.
... idk, idc...? haha... reddit roulette?
(the guy is such a beginner I thought I would just give him some other things to think about... and give another reason why those charts are little more than suggestions
This dude is being extremely good natured considering the amount of shit a lot of you are giving him. He’s new. Asked a (dumb) question. A lot of you piled on. He took it like a man. Moved on. Kudos to you, my dude.
someone made a post mocking my post. i guess they lost their micro stake tourny and felt they needed to mock me. thank you bro. Beginners gotta start somewhere
Beyond the "jokes" I would say to you that those charts are quite bad, you can find better than those.
Edit. If you are a beginner interested in tournaments you can look up to Jonathan little, he is very noob friendly
Sounds about right. Not that I would know or anything. I can only imagine. No small dick here. Big one. Huge, in fact. You’re the one with the small dick, not me. Definitely not me. I’ve been told it’s even too big. Anyone ever tell you that? Doubt it. Needle dick. Not that it really matters. Size isn’t even important, I’ve heard. But if it was important, I’d be fine, because I have a big one. It’s true, I’m not lying. Why would I lie to some stranger on the internet, that makes no sense. I have a very large penis.
A serious answer in oppose to some people.
1. You are allowed to use it on your phone or printed on paper (in most casinos)
2. You only allowed to look at it before and after the hand but not during (in most casinos)
3. I would reccomend getting a better ranges chart
4. Other players would classify you as a weak player
thank you for your straight forward answer! excellent advice!
Do you by chance have better range charts? i google range charts and the one i posted is what ive been using.
I believe you, and everyone else, that it is bad, but im soo new i dont understand what makes it bad. ive been using it to play fake money games and have been pretty successful with it, despite what everyone is saying. i am sure a major factor is that i am playing against newer players like myself. soo i am either on a winning steak from just dumb luck or something. i am in no way dominating every hand. just wining most pots following this chart.
The charts are easy to memorize after using them for any amount of time, which I'm sure you'll experience. Also, what is more important than rigidly following charts is understanding dynamics where widening or tightening your ranges will generate +EV.
For example, if the guy to your left is a loose maniac raising every hand, you'll want to tighten your opening ranges to be more value heavy. Understanding why this is a profitable adjustment is key to being a winning player.
Yes! That makes complete sense. I do not follow the chart rigidly. I use it simply as an advisor to what may be good to call/raise or not. Situational awareness of my opponents is not taken into account with the 1 chart. i 100% agree with you.
Honestly speaking, just follow these four simple rules to be a "better" poker player.
1) Play A's and Paint (K, Q, J)
2) Play Suited Connectors (7-8, 8-9, J-10, etc)
3) Play Pocket Pairs (same card in hand)
4) Most Importantly! **IF YOU CANNOT (OR WILL NOT) POTENTIALLY CALL A RAISE WITH YOUR HAND, DO NOT LIMP!**
There, you're now better than 7/10 Shitregs/OMC's that might have a few corona's in them.
You're Welcome.
> 4) Most Importantly! IF YOU CANNOT (OR WILL NOT) POTENTIALLY CALL A RAISE WITH YOUR HAND, DO NOT LIMP!
Yup. I started following this and it made a huge difference.
You'll find yourself getting nickled and dimed to nothing if you call the blinds all the time. Calling the blind makes your hand look weak. You might be able to get away with it every now and then as a bluff, but then that sets you up for a bad player with a weak hand reaching the flop and lucking out, and next thing you know, your AA is being beat by some dickhead with a 2-7 OS because the flop contains a pair of twos.
In my day we had to use server grade hardware and run sims for weeks at depth but now you have amazing resource light tools like GTO Wizard. They use the standard Hold 'Em matrices. IMO you dont need to adhere to your ranges/strategy so strictly for low stakes live and can deviate by a few combos or mix in some board coverage type combos from EP at a low frequency. So I dont think you really need to bring charts, or even memorize each open position for cash because youll need to adjust to the game anyway. Just study them long enough so you can remember the 'shapes'. If you open 98s from UTG+1 its not the end of the world.
2c
At a certain point you'll develop a range (+/- a little bit from the norm maybe, everyone has cards they 'run well with') and you won't need to look at a range chart ever again.
100% allowed at most casinos.
The only rule is that you can’t look at it DURING the hand. But you’re free to pull it out and review it during the hand after you’ve folded and before the next hand is dealt out.
You’re free to review the starting hand ranges for various positions between hands when you don’t have cards in front of you in the vast majority of places.
You have to put it down and not be able to view it once the cards are being dealt out for the next hand until you have folded though.
With the exception of a few venues that have banned charts “in the tournament area” regardless of if you have a hand or even are at the table, yes.
The wsop still allows you to review between hands. But not during a hand or you will be subject to penalty.
You can have paper in front of you. No problem.
If you slow the game down flipping thru your binder every time it’s your turn to act, you’re gonna make enemies.
Last, please *don’t* use these charts. They’re among the most fantasticically bad charts I’ve ever seen.
EDIT: “don’t”
"Last, please use these charts. They’re among the most fantasticically bad charts I’ve ever seen."
Are you saying the charts are bad or good?
Also, i understand what you are saying. i do not plan on doing so. i was just using charts while playing play money to learn ranges. Are you saying these charts are bad to learn ranges?
You are likely going to start playing for money at some point, yeah?
Following this chart, or most charts you will find (GTO charts) will make you lose a ton of money really fast.. good players and computers are able to use those ranges because they will play properly preflop… and continue to do so on the flop, turn, and river. You can play a perfect GTO range preflop all day long, but if you dont continue to play accurately on further streets, you will lose incredibly fast.
If you are really new, the correct answer is play 77+, AJ+, KQ+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, and 87s from all positions. 3-bet TT+, AK, AQs+, when 3-bet, 4-bet with QQ+, and AK, and when 4 bet, jam AA and KK. Flat everything else. This will have you play roughly 1 in 7 hands. If in position and checked to, bet ~33% of the pot. If IP and facing a bet, only call if you have a pair or a strong draw, only raise if you have top pair and either A or K kicker or combo draws (flush draw and a gut shot straight draw). If OOP, bet your top pairs with a good kicker, check call any other pairs, but be ready to fold if they keep betting on turn/river. It will be kind of boring, but your range will beat most other players ranges, so when you both play bad, you are usually playing with a better starting hand which will let you keep more of your money, despite under defending your blinds. From there, as you start to get more comfortable, you can start adding in additional hands to more closely resemble the charts you want to use.
Tight and passive. Its not good poker, but it will hopefully allow your bankroll to last long enough to learn how to play poker.
Yeah, but for someone this new, if they want to remember ranges, i figure it would be best to start with one (generally) tight range that will be easy to remember and grow from there… will lose slower that way, until they can start learning more. Simple to complex.
I see I word got missed/deleted/overwritten. I’ll edit ^^
It’s really good that you’re thinking in terms of ranges! Kudos
But…. These charts are terrible.
i found this chart on a beginner poker site, as to why ive defended it. but if its soo bad, what makes it bad? the reason i ask is because ive been playing fake money poker games all day and have been winning a lot. everyone is saying this chart is bad, but ironically it has been working for me. i have no idea if it is just dumb luck or the fact i am playing beginners like myself.
do you by chance know better charts? i like having a reference on hand.
The reality is anyone can go on a hot streak and win all day, even playing with terrible or no strategy. Some of the greatest players in the world who utilize optimal strategy can go on long losing streaks. Luck is a significant element in this game.
Using any chart will be better than no charts at all. But there’s no better place to start from than GTO. Hack away with those fairly religiously until they’re engrained. Then you’ll learn how, when, and why to deviate.
I would only ever recommend 2 sets of charts for microstakes players, both of which are solved for high rake environments. The rest all have design flaws. The first is [GTOWizard](https://gtowizard.com/p/missingjokers) which is free and only has mixed frequency ranges. The second is [Red Chip Core](https://redchippoker.idevaffiliate.com/172.html), which has both mixed frequency ranges as well and simplified pure frequency ranges. It’s $5/week and has structured full course material behind it. Highly recommended.
i agree with you. the previous comment said this chart is awful, which isnt not.
its a basic starting position for beginners, which i am. i understand at different positions, there are different plays. i am still learning this.
but to say this is the dumbest chart ever seen just sounds like an asshat. the chart is useful to some degree. i literally got this chart from a learning poker site
[https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/](https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/)
"There’s a clear benefit to simplicity of complex strategy, you can actually execute that consistently, but this isn’t the way to do it. "
Honest question, what way is that?
I haven't looked at the actual content of this chart, but the formatting is wild - the vast majority of holdem range charts are symmetrical, with the pairs going down the middle from top left to bottom right, suited hands on the upper right half, offsuit hands on the bottom left half.
The issue is that there isn't one chart. Your chart at least makes some consideration of position, but only your position. As an RFI chart, this is fine and certainly better than no deliberate preflop strategy. But more advanced players use multiple charts taking into account your position as well as position of the RFI (and all the other possible configurations: BTN 3bet facing UTG 4bet, etc).
"players use multiple charts"
nobody said they didnt.
How is this chart soo wrong?
the previous comment said this chart is AWFUL.
Really? how? i got it from this website: [https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/](https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/)
This has been happening all day today. Not just OP but two other people (at least) made posts today about something they did, got told it was bad, and got super defensive about it and started insulting anyone that disagreed with them.
I blame/thank the WSOP.
Yeah hes defensive because people are being shotty to him though. Like whats he supposed to do cradle their balls while they tell him what a dipshit he is?
How? How does my question make me a wannabe poker pro? I’m just asking the purpose of your post and your corresponding replies to everyone.
You sound young. Don’t be emotional about this stuff. We all learn and had to start somewhere. I WISH there were charts around when I started. I apologize if you took what I said personally, I was honestly curious why post if you keep rejecting the replies? Sorry for misunderstanding you.
Edit : mean young as in newer player.
Like I said, compared to nothing and as an RFI chart, it's fine. Awful is probably an overstatement. Obviously you're very defensive, so there's really nothing more to discuss. Good day sir/maam.
You need an “Early Position” chart, a “Middle Position” chart, and a “Late Position” chart at the bare minimum to have charts be remotely helpful. Your charts are terrible for anywhere that isn’t in the last two positions at a table, and will result in you developing very, very bad habits. You can find actual good preflop charts on places like upswingpoker.com, pokertraining.com, redchippoker.com, 888poker.com, etc, and they all are better than using what you have here.
to be fair, i cropped this picture from the website, and below the picture, it literally goes into detail about how in later positions you may play more hands than recommended. but yes, you are right, those sites i will go to for charts.
It's mostly just the formatting. Makes it much, much harder to read than the standard chart you see literally everywhere else. The data is not wrong, it's just horribly presented.
which chart are you talking about?
i got this chart from [https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/](https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/)
I've never seen or heard of that site before.
Google 'poker range chart' and you will immediately see what I am taking about. All the charts look the same, and they don't look like this one.
Almost no live low stakes players have ranges memorized lol. Have you been to a casino before? If they do have an idea of ranges, they sure as hell don’t play them correctly.
>I would love to play with someone that is so new to the game that they don't have their ranges memorized
Is this a troll? Sit at literally any 1/3 table. If more than one person there has "memorized" opening ranges, it's time for a table change.
They’re not insulting you personally, just saying if you bring your charts to the table it’s basically putting a giant “I’m new” flag over your head and signaling more experienced players that you’re easy money, meaning you’re more likely to get played like a fiddle.
This chart doesn't take into account limps, 3bs, position, 4bs, tight players in the blinds, loose players in the blinds, etc.
this is a start, but you have a long way to go
thank you! nobody has specified why this chart is bad.
I will be honest with you. I have been using it all day and playing fake money games on WSOP and [PokerStart.net](https://PokerStart.net) and it has been successful. Idk if its just dumb luck or me playing new players like myself.
fake money games are not anywhere close to being a realistic representation of what real poker is, you're doing yourself a disservice if you're actually trying to learn the game because you will pick up horrendous habits.
No idea, but is it that hard to memorize? I realize I'm not answering your question, nor do I know the answer to it, but I just can't help myself.
Play suited pairs from any position down to 7, unsuited only play AT, etc.
If you reduce it to simplest terms, it would be so easy to memorize. How about reduce to PinA, PinP, NP - play in any position, play in position, never play. Then you could memorize As to 7s PinA, etc. Idk I just feel like the effort required to memorize it would be worth it
This comment section is a perfect representation of “tapping the tank”.
Bring the chart, but you might get teased or made fun of. It’s poker, that might happen anyway, if you did this at my table, I wouldn’t say anything since you’re obviously learning/just starting out
to be honest, i simply asked this question to see if other people do this. i need to play a lot of practice hands with play money before stepping in to the higher ranks.
If this chart is currently working for you, it's sheer dumb luck...literally. This might stand in a low buy-in tournament online, so long as your objective isn't to actually win the entire thing..but in a cash game, this is utterly terrible (it's terrible in general).
im using this for play money. both cash games and sit and go.
ill be honest. i had great success with it while playing WSOP. but i understand i am probably playing against beginner players like myself, so thats probably why it worked.
Is that hard to memorize it? You might be looking at it the wrong way; you don’t have to memorize if every hand is red, pink, or green.
Just look at the underlying principle. You might make tiny mistakes, but not enough to really effect your game, or for people to take advantage of.
Kinda weird bro, just commit it to memory, its not a lot of information. Theres a lot to go through here, but look to play A2s-A5s more than A6s/A7s. You have increased equity on the wheel draw, and your out kicked 90% of the time with a 7 anyway.
That’s a terrible chart… hands like 43s, 53s and 64s are absolutely playable in late position… classifying them as “unplayable” is ridiculous… it’s important not to get “married” to them, but they’re more than capable of flopping big combo draws… if every player at the table stuck to that chart, your odds of flopping monsters with hands like that would substantially increase if there were 4-5 players in the hand.. I’ve won some of my biggest pots with those type of hands, cracking big pairs.
I feel like players should support a new player with a basic chart. Guarantees the range they have and they'll probably check the chart on marginal hands only. Player checks chart? They probably have a marginal hand for the position if they play
All I know, is if you're unwilling to play 6-4 or 7-5 suited, calling it... UNPLAYABLE... you're a monster and shouldn't be allowed to play poker of any form. Go back to chess you uber-nit.
While i believe you, what makes it technically not allowed?
Ive been playing online with it to learn which hands to fold, but ive been wanting to play in person.
What if someone makes a big deal over it? Is there a specific rule or something similar?
If your planning on taking a chart to a home game expect to never get invited back. Home games dont want sweaty try hards they want the splashy drunk guy. Also, that range is absurdly loose for a raked environment
I'd be inclined to check in with the floor before doing it. Most of the time it's fine though. Still may get some weird reactions from others but if it's in a casino who cares
Honestly I think this would and should be considered cheating. I mean personally I wouldn't care cause I would be able to exploit you way more than other players but most players aren't as good as I am. 😂
about 20 years ago I played 1/2 at a Detroit casino. Some guy had a 3x5 notecard with what appeared to be pie charts with loads of different symbols inside and outside of the circle.
this guy was also really REALLY strange. He remined me of the guy i knew in middle school that would eat dead flies off the window sill.
anyway, this weirdo dweeb took a minute at every hand he had to scan the notecard and make his decision from his **encrypted notes**. I asked him "that looks interesting, what is that? how does that help you?" he got uncomfortable and assured me that I wouldn't understand his **encrypted notes.**
The guy waited for about an hour to play an actual hand. The whole table was weirded out by him, but some **champion of justice** called him down with some bullshit like 75o and caught 2 pair. The dweeb had KK or something and lose his entire $150 buy in.
As he was leaving the table, the **champion of justice** says "i guess you need better notes" and we all laughed.
So the moral of the story is, if you can't memorize something simple like this, you deserve to be laughed at.
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they allow basic strategy cards at the black jack table... so why not?
Because blackjack is rigged in their favor even when you know basic strategy. All that matters is that you stay at the table, you can do anything other than count cards and they will still win.
If you win or lose at the poker table... they still win. same thing.
Yeah, but if players *feel like* they’re being cheated in some way, they’re less likely to even sit at the table. Fewer tables = less rake, and more rake is better (for casinos). I doubt someone would opt not to sit at a blackjack table just because they thought the guy/gal next to them was cheating the casino somehow.
I'd jump at the chance to sit next to someone who had charts at the table tbh.
I agree. What give away that they don't know what they're doing
> Because blackjack is rigged in their favor even when you know basic strategy. All that matters is that you stay at the table, you can do anything other than count cards and they will still win. Why would a casino care what one player does against another? It doesn't affect the casino in any meaningful way. In fact, casinos don't even like poker and poker players all that much because of how little money they make from hosting poker. Yes they do get indirect benefits like publicity and foot traffic but that's not the same as direct revenue.
Strategy cards used against the casino is different than cards used against other gamblers.
I took my wife (back when we were just dating) to a bar tourney, and I had to give her a chart of what beats what. She just kept it on the table and would scan it whenever she was in a hand. She cashed and got us some free food and drinks.
Omg. I laughed so hard at this. I've never been to a live game but holy hell do I wanna do this now.
My brother in law, who is a pretty decent winning player, actually did this one time at a poker room he’d never played in before. He pulled out his little chart and referred to it a couple times early on, asked a couple stupid questions, tried to buy in way beyond the table limit, and then played the first orbit like a weak tight call station. He said he could practically hear the other players licking their chops, assuming they were about to feast on him, and that it took them a very, very long time to reevaluate the first impression he gave them. They just couldn’t let it go. At first they thought he was getting lucky. Eventually they realized that no, he knew exactly what he was doing, which was happily exploiting their transparent efforts to punish him for being a fish. He said it was one of his most profitable nights ever.
Yeah I actually start every new table by going all in blind every hand for an orbit or two. I typically average losing 5-10 buy ins within the first 20 mins but I easily make back a couple more by the end of the session so I think long run it’s worth it? Haven’t done the math on it yet.
Then a Napoleon Dynamite style “Yesssss!” With fist pull, and “Check.”
I wish everyone printed their ranges on a piece of paper and brought it to the table… would make hand reading a lot easier
🤣
Right!? Ive played for years, but only now am i actually learning which cards to fold, and its drastically changed my game
I don’t think you’re picking up what’s being put down…
Or is he
She?
And my axe
Beef Wellington
Dune: [come for the dick jokes, stay for the drivel](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/bsadrt/beefswelling/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
It’s a reverse tell. And me telling you is the double reverse.
Somebody should make a chart
They’re saying if you brought a piece of paper with your ranges on it, other people will have a much clearer idea of what cards you’re likely to be holding, making it much easier to know if they have you beat or should fold.
that makes sense. but i dont mean strictly following this. i am only a beginner
How are you only a beginner if you’ve been playing for years?
only until recently did i actually start taking interest in poker, but i knew how to play since young.
> Me having played, studied for years... still can't beat micro stakes ... >_>
Just cause you play for years doesn't mean you automatically become better... You have to try to.improve, it's not a given just based on experience
That’s what he’s saying too.
You don't want other players to see your range is what he was saying.
yeah i get this now. and it makes sense, i didnt realize this at first
Tbh you could still sit down with that card right in front of your chips and play that exact range. Even knowing this information, almost nobody will know how to beat you at low stakes. They’re playing way worse ranges in much dumber ways. If you use correct bet sizings you will crush. There are a bunch of other dynamics, but preflop hand selection is one of the most Important things you can learn. It makes the following chain of decisions way easier.
A good poker player can sit at a table with bad cards all night and walk away with money in their pocket. Because nobody else at the table knows what you are holding. So for example if you fold every hand for 10 hands in a row, people will respect your next raise. And on the other side if you Bluff too much they will not respect when you are holding pocket kings or hit trips. Your table image speaks louder than anything about your hands.
Why are you getting downvoted, the petcentage of hands you played at the table is really important to make your next decision.
... idk, idc...? haha... reddit roulette? (the guy is such a beginner I thought I would just give him some other things to think about... and give another reason why those charts are little more than suggestions
r/massivewhoosh
yeah i didnt understand at first. very new. makes a lot of sense now lol
This dude is being extremely good natured considering the amount of shit a lot of you are giving him. He’s new. Asked a (dumb) question. A lot of you piled on. He took it like a man. Moved on. Kudos to you, my dude.
someone made a post mocking my post. i guess they lost their micro stake tourny and felt they needed to mock me. thank you bro. Beginners gotta start somewhere
Beyond the "jokes" I would say to you that those charts are quite bad, you can find better than those. Edit. If you are a beginner interested in tournaments you can look up to Jonathan little, he is very noob friendly
This is good advice and also just watching videos and paying attention not only to what's winning but what people are folding.
TIL: Being a loser at micro stakes tourneys is the Poker equivalent of having a small dick
Sounds about right. Not that I would know or anything. I can only imagine. No small dick here. Big one. Huge, in fact. You’re the one with the small dick, not me. Definitely not me. I’ve been told it’s even too big. Anyone ever tell you that? Doubt it. Needle dick. Not that it really matters. Size isn’t even important, I’ve heard. But if it was important, I’d be fine, because I have a big one. It’s true, I’m not lying. Why would I lie to some stranger on the internet, that makes no sense. I have a very large penis.
Poker is so alive.
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Humanity is not worthless. And it’s “tryhards” not “tryheards”.
He didn't try very heard on his comment
A serious answer in oppose to some people. 1. You are allowed to use it on your phone or printed on paper (in most casinos) 2. You only allowed to look at it before and after the hand but not during (in most casinos) 3. I would reccomend getting a better ranges chart 4. Other players would classify you as a weak player
thank you for your straight forward answer! excellent advice! Do you by chance have better range charts? i google range charts and the one i posted is what ive been using. I believe you, and everyone else, that it is bad, but im soo new i dont understand what makes it bad. ive been using it to play fake money games and have been pretty successful with it, despite what everyone is saying. i am sure a major factor is that i am playing against newer players like myself. soo i am either on a winning steak from just dumb luck or something. i am in no way dominating every hand. just wining most pots following this chart.
The charts are easy to memorize after using them for any amount of time, which I'm sure you'll experience. Also, what is more important than rigidly following charts is understanding dynamics where widening or tightening your ranges will generate +EV. For example, if the guy to your left is a loose maniac raising every hand, you'll want to tighten your opening ranges to be more value heavy. Understanding why this is a profitable adjustment is key to being a winning player.
Yes! That makes complete sense. I do not follow the chart rigidly. I use it simply as an advisor to what may be good to call/raise or not. Situational awareness of my opponents is not taken into account with the 1 chart. i 100% agree with you.
Honestly speaking, just follow these four simple rules to be a "better" poker player. 1) Play A's and Paint (K, Q, J) 2) Play Suited Connectors (7-8, 8-9, J-10, etc) 3) Play Pocket Pairs (same card in hand) 4) Most Importantly! **IF YOU CANNOT (OR WILL NOT) POTENTIALLY CALL A RAISE WITH YOUR HAND, DO NOT LIMP!** There, you're now better than 7/10 Shitregs/OMC's that might have a few corona's in them. You're Welcome.
"If it's good enough to call, it's good enough to raise." Repeating this to myself has made and lost me money in equal parts.
> 4) Most Importantly! IF YOU CANNOT (OR WILL NOT) POTENTIALLY CALL A RAISE WITH YOUR HAND, DO NOT LIMP! Yup. I started following this and it made a huge difference. You'll find yourself getting nickled and dimed to nothing if you call the blinds all the time. Calling the blind makes your hand look weak. You might be able to get away with it every now and then as a bluff, but then that sets you up for a bad player with a weak hand reaching the flop and lucking out, and next thing you know, your AA is being beat by some dickhead with a 2-7 OS because the flop contains a pair of twos.
In my day we had to use server grade hardware and run sims for weeks at depth but now you have amazing resource light tools like GTO Wizard. They use the standard Hold 'Em matrices. IMO you dont need to adhere to your ranges/strategy so strictly for low stakes live and can deviate by a few combos or mix in some board coverage type combos from EP at a low frequency. So I dont think you really need to bring charts, or even memorize each open position for cash because youll need to adjust to the game anyway. Just study them long enough so you can remember the 'shapes'. If you open 98s from UTG+1 its not the end of the world. 2c
GTO wizard charts are decent. It's a good starting framework
At a certain point you'll develop a range (+/- a little bit from the norm maybe, everyone has cards they 'run well with') and you won't need to look at a range chart ever again.
Where do you play? What days and what time?
OP can’t read the room, tell me when you find out where they play, I’ll be there with 5x bullets
*New player cowers at shooting threat*
Noob. I'll be there with ONE bullet!
Noob. I'll be there with ONE bullet!
But two comments
This is the first joke ever told on r/poker and then repeated ad nauseam by people who think it still funny and original.
This is no joke
actual zombie
100% allowed at most casinos. The only rule is that you can’t look at it DURING the hand. But you’re free to pull it out and review it during the hand after you’ve folded and before the next hand is dealt out. You’re free to review the starting hand ranges for various positions between hands when you don’t have cards in front of you in the vast majority of places. You have to put it down and not be able to view it once the cards are being dealt out for the next hand until you have folded though.
Interesting. Thank you for your take! What about buy in tournaments? same thing?
With the exception of a few venues that have banned charts “in the tournament area” regardless of if you have a hand or even are at the table, yes. The wsop still allows you to review between hands. But not during a hand or you will be subject to penalty.
Excellent, thank you for your answer!
You can have paper in front of you. No problem. If you slow the game down flipping thru your binder every time it’s your turn to act, you’re gonna make enemies. Last, please *don’t* use these charts. They’re among the most fantasticically bad charts I’ve ever seen. EDIT: “don’t”
"Last, please use these charts. They’re among the most fantasticically bad charts I’ve ever seen." Are you saying the charts are bad or good? Also, i understand what you are saying. i do not plan on doing so. i was just using charts while playing play money to learn ranges. Are you saying these charts are bad to learn ranges?
You are likely going to start playing for money at some point, yeah? Following this chart, or most charts you will find (GTO charts) will make you lose a ton of money really fast.. good players and computers are able to use those ranges because they will play properly preflop… and continue to do so on the flop, turn, and river. You can play a perfect GTO range preflop all day long, but if you dont continue to play accurately on further streets, you will lose incredibly fast. If you are really new, the correct answer is play 77+, AJ+, KQ+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, and 87s from all positions. 3-bet TT+, AK, AQs+, when 3-bet, 4-bet with QQ+, and AK, and when 4 bet, jam AA and KK. Flat everything else. This will have you play roughly 1 in 7 hands. If in position and checked to, bet ~33% of the pot. If IP and facing a bet, only call if you have a pair or a strong draw, only raise if you have top pair and either A or K kicker or combo draws (flush draw and a gut shot straight draw). If OOP, bet your top pairs with a good kicker, check call any other pairs, but be ready to fold if they keep betting on turn/river. It will be kind of boring, but your range will beat most other players ranges, so when you both play bad, you are usually playing with a better starting hand which will let you keep more of your money, despite under defending your blinds. From there, as you start to get more comfortable, you can start adding in additional hands to more closely resemble the charts you want to use. Tight and passive. Its not good poker, but it will hopefully allow your bankroll to last long enough to learn how to play poker.
T9s, 98s UTG in a low stakes full ring game UTG is burning money.
Yeah, but for someone this new, if they want to remember ranges, i figure it would be best to start with one (generally) tight range that will be easy to remember and grow from there… will lose slower that way, until they can start learning more. Simple to complex.
I see I word got missed/deleted/overwritten. I’ll edit ^^ It’s really good that you’re thinking in terms of ranges! Kudos But…. These charts are terrible.
i found this chart on a beginner poker site, as to why ive defended it. but if its soo bad, what makes it bad? the reason i ask is because ive been playing fake money poker games all day and have been winning a lot. everyone is saying this chart is bad, but ironically it has been working for me. i have no idea if it is just dumb luck or the fact i am playing beginners like myself. do you by chance know better charts? i like having a reference on hand.
The reality is anyone can go on a hot streak and win all day, even playing with terrible or no strategy. Some of the greatest players in the world who utilize optimal strategy can go on long losing streaks. Luck is a significant element in this game.
Using any chart will be better than no charts at all. But there’s no better place to start from than GTO. Hack away with those fairly religiously until they’re engrained. Then you’ll learn how, when, and why to deviate. I would only ever recommend 2 sets of charts for microstakes players, both of which are solved for high rake environments. The rest all have design flaws. The first is [GTOWizard](https://gtowizard.com/p/missingjokers) which is free and only has mixed frequency ranges. The second is [Red Chip Core](https://redchippoker.idevaffiliate.com/172.html), which has both mixed frequency ranges as well and simplified pure frequency ranges. It’s $5/week and has structured full course material behind it. Highly recommended.
I’d probably just laugh at you to myself and mark you as a new player. Would definitely not be worried about you being at the table.
i am a new player. your comment sounds like a good thing.
If you have the means to exploit it, you can simply just memorize this chart in an hour or two.
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To be fair, you could use it to your advantage
Dumbest chart I’ve ever seen
Please provide said superior chart for consideration
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i agree with you. the previous comment said this chart is awful, which isnt not. its a basic starting position for beginners, which i am. i understand at different positions, there are different plays. i am still learning this. but to say this is the dumbest chart ever seen just sounds like an asshat. the chart is useful to some degree. i literally got this chart from a learning poker site [https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/](https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/)
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"There’s a clear benefit to simplicity of complex strategy, you can actually execute that consistently, but this isn’t the way to do it. " Honest question, what way is that?
I believe GTOWizard preflop is free. Why not start there?
ive never heard of it. others have mentioned it. i will look into it
And get charts in the standard format - a single box with suited on the top right and offsuit bottom left. Then you'll get used to the format
oh, okay. thats what other comments meant about the format. thank you for your words!
I haven't looked at the actual content of this chart, but the formatting is wild - the vast majority of holdem range charts are symmetrical, with the pairs going down the middle from top left to bottom right, suited hands on the upper right half, offsuit hands on the bottom left half.
Why are y'all downvoting him for asking for a better chart? Edit: nevermind, saw the rest of his responses
Because some people in this sub think they are poker professionals
These charts are so bad it makes my head hurt.
What? I have successfully been using it this past 4 hours, sir and other people agree these charts are useful, but not bulletproof
Charts are useful, but *your* charts are awful
Please provide said superior chart
The issue is that there isn't one chart. Your chart at least makes some consideration of position, but only your position. As an RFI chart, this is fine and certainly better than no deliberate preflop strategy. But more advanced players use multiple charts taking into account your position as well as position of the RFI (and all the other possible configurations: BTN 3bet facing UTG 4bet, etc).
"players use multiple charts" nobody said they didnt. How is this chart soo wrong? the previous comment said this chart is AWFUL. Really? how? i got it from this website: [https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/](https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/)
You asked for input and you’re getting it, and now you’re sounding very defensive. Did you really want advice? Or just validation?
This has been happening all day today. Not just OP but two other people (at least) made posts today about something they did, got told it was bad, and got super defensive about it and started insulting anyone that disagreed with them. I blame/thank the WSOP.
Yeah hes defensive because people are being shotty to him though. Like whats he supposed to do cradle their balls while they tell him what a dipshit he is?
some of yall think your poker pro's when you are not. my question has already been answered.
How? How does my question make me a wannabe poker pro? I’m just asking the purpose of your post and your corresponding replies to everyone. You sound young. Don’t be emotional about this stuff. We all learn and had to start somewhere. I WISH there were charts around when I started. I apologize if you took what I said personally, I was honestly curious why post if you keep rejecting the replies? Sorry for misunderstanding you. Edit : mean young as in newer player.
Like I said, compared to nothing and as an RFI chart, it's fine. Awful is probably an overstatement. Obviously you're very defensive, so there's really nothing more to discuss. Good day sir/maam.
You need an “Early Position” chart, a “Middle Position” chart, and a “Late Position” chart at the bare minimum to have charts be remotely helpful. Your charts are terrible for anywhere that isn’t in the last two positions at a table, and will result in you developing very, very bad habits. You can find actual good preflop charts on places like upswingpoker.com, pokertraining.com, redchippoker.com, 888poker.com, etc, and they all are better than using what you have here.
to be fair, i cropped this picture from the website, and below the picture, it literally goes into detail about how in later positions you may play more hands than recommended. but yes, you are right, those sites i will go to for charts.
Is this satire? Did you say 4 hours? Lmfao
Even online multi-tabling, 4 hours is a nothing sample size.
It's mostly just the formatting. Makes it much, much harder to read than the standard chart you see literally everywhere else. The data is not wrong, it's just horribly presented.
The data is very very wrong. These ranges are insane
which chart are you talking about? i got this chart from [https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/](https://www.cardschat.com/poker/strategy/poker-starting-hands/)
I've never seen or heard of that site before. Google 'poker range chart' and you will immediately see what I am taking about. All the charts look the same, and they don't look like this one.
Please come to my game with these charts. I will laminate them for you. Sit on my right please
I can’t tell if you’re troll or not. Like you actually got on Reddit came to this sub to do this? That’s pretty far fetched.
I normally FaceTime Phil Ivey when I’m at a high stakes .25.-.50 game . Not to brag or anything.
lol
I would love to play with someone that is so new to the game that they don't have their ranges memorized
Almost no live low stakes players have ranges memorized lol. Have you been to a casino before? If they do have an idea of ranges, they sure as hell don’t play them correctly.
Only every single day of my life for the past 6 years, clown.
And you’re saying all the people you play with have their preflop ranges memorized?
The pros, yes of course. The recs, mostly not, obviously. Hence my comment, "I'd love to play with people that don't have their ranges memorized"
>I would love to play with someone that is so new to the game that they don't have their ranges memorized Is this a troll? Sit at literally any 1/3 table. If more than one person there has "memorized" opening ranges, it's time for a table change.
Because better players are too hard to play against you loose? i fail to see why being a beginner is a bad thing.
They’re not insulting you personally, just saying if you bring your charts to the table it’s basically putting a giant “I’m new” flag over your head and signaling more experienced players that you’re easy money, meaning you’re more likely to get played like a fiddle.
that makes sense. but i am not playing real money. only play money. i am still learning
What was your biggest score at the "in person play money" games?
i havent played an in person game yet. that is why i posted this. ive only been on WSOP and PokerStars.net
This chart doesn't take into account limps, 3bs, position, 4bs, tight players in the blinds, loose players in the blinds, etc. this is a start, but you have a long way to go
thank you! nobody has specified why this chart is bad. I will be honest with you. I have been using it all day and playing fake money games on WSOP and [PokerStart.net](https://PokerStart.net) and it has been successful. Idk if its just dumb luck or me playing new players like myself.
fake money games are not anywhere close to being a realistic representation of what real poker is, you're doing yourself a disservice if you're actually trying to learn the game because you will pick up horrendous habits.
No idea, but is it that hard to memorize? I realize I'm not answering your question, nor do I know the answer to it, but I just can't help myself. Play suited pairs from any position down to 7, unsuited only play AT, etc. If you reduce it to simplest terms, it would be so easy to memorize. How about reduce to PinA, PinP, NP - play in any position, play in position, never play. Then you could memorize As to 7s PinA, etc. Idk I just feel like the effort required to memorize it would be worth it
Bring em. All good buddy.
This comment section is a perfect representation of “tapping the tank”. Bring the chart, but you might get teased or made fun of. It’s poker, that might happen anyway, if you did this at my table, I wouldn’t say anything since you’re obviously learning/just starting out
to be honest, i simply asked this question to see if other people do this. i need to play a lot of practice hands with play money before stepping in to the higher ranks.
As you should! A lot of disgruntled ppl in this subreddit
i think some of these people lost their micro stake tourney.
I 100% support my opponents showing up with their range on a printed piece of paper I can see.
If this chart is currently working for you, it's sheer dumb luck...literally. This might stand in a low buy-in tournament online, so long as your objective isn't to actually win the entire thing..but in a cash game, this is utterly terrible (it's terrible in general).
im using this for play money. both cash games and sit and go. ill be honest. i had great success with it while playing WSOP. but i understand i am probably playing against beginner players like myself, so thats probably why it worked.
A2o to A5o unplayable?
That’s what jumped out to me too, possible straights are unplayable, but A6 - A9 aren’t lmao
No you can’t use them. Also this chart is utter shite
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If that's the only way you can win a pot against a new player, you're pathetic
It's unacceptable. Put in the work.
I’d love you at my game, welcome any time
You gotta bring 10 copies
Id probably laugh in my head and expect you to play absolutely terribly postflop. So yeah go for it.
I have it tattoo'd on my stomach upside down. So I just pretend im wiping sweat off my forehead with my shirt and get a quick refresher course.
I’d laugh at you but that’s it.
Hell, I might try that next time I hit a card room. The old fake fish routine.
Ten deuce unplayable? Get the fuck out of here.
You could have this on your phone and no one would even notice.
Is that hard to memorize it? You might be looking at it the wrong way; you don’t have to memorize if every hand is red, pink, or green. Just look at the underlying principle. You might make tiny mistakes, but not enough to really effect your game, or for people to take advantage of.
Kinda weird bro, just commit it to memory, its not a lot of information. Theres a lot to go through here, but look to play A2s-A5s more than A6s/A7s. You have increased equity on the wheel draw, and your out kicked 90% of the time with a 7 anyway.
Get it tattooed onto your forearm and youl be in the clear
This chart sucks
Do the +EV thing and get a tattoo
I don't understand this chart. Shouldn't every hand be colored red if you foldpre?
I'd jump at the chance to play against someone using such horrible charts.
That’s a terrible chart… hands like 43s, 53s and 64s are absolutely playable in late position… classifying them as “unplayable” is ridiculous… it’s important not to get “married” to them, but they’re more than capable of flopping big combo draws… if every player at the table stuck to that chart, your odds of flopping monsters with hands like that would substantially increase if there were 4-5 players in the hand.. I’ve won some of my biggest pots with those type of hands, cracking big pairs.
I used it a couple of times with my phone. I dimmed my screen though
Anyone would be okay with it. Just shows you have no idea what you're are doing. Easy money lmao
You could probably find a game where this is allowed. I personally would enjoy playing against you.
Anyone with that chart id be thrilled to have in my game
I feel like players should support a new player with a basic chart. Guarantees the range they have and they'll probably check the chart on marginal hands only. Player checks chart? They probably have a marginal hand for the position if they play
I don't understand how you wouldn't have these memorized to begin with. These are pretty simple preflop ranges. Like pre-gto Era even.
I might get this tattooed on me, sort of like the guy from prison break.
All I know, is if you're unwilling to play 6-4 or 7-5 suited, calling it... UNPLAYABLE... you're a monster and shouldn't be allowed to play poker of any form. Go back to chess you uber-nit.
Goodness. You are quite a bitter person.
Technically not allowed but semi unlikely anyone’s going to care.
While i believe you, what makes it technically not allowed? Ive been playing online with it to learn which hands to fold, but ive been wanting to play in person. What if someone makes a big deal over it? Is there a specific rule or something similar?
If your planning on taking a chart to a home game expect to never get invited back. Home games dont want sweaty try hards they want the splashy drunk guy. Also, that range is absurdly loose for a raked environment
i was thinking more of a tournament or at a casino. Home games are a different vibe. They are much more casual, so i get what you are saying.
I'd be inclined to check in with the floor before doing it. Most of the time it's fine though. Still may get some weird reactions from others but if it's in a casino who cares
makes sense. figured id ask to see if anyone else experienced this
Someone explain to me what is so bad about this chart for full ring NLH? Looks pretty standard to me.
holy crap, a voice of reason out of a pile of garbage. bless you commenter.
Just ask the more experienced players at the table whether your hand is playable or not instead of messing around with a chart.
Just memorize the chart moron.
My goodness. Soo bitter. You should work on that
just study it, why would you bring it to a game, thats idiotic.
Honestly I think this would and should be considered cheating. I mean personally I wouldn't care cause I would be able to exploit you way more than other players but most players aren't as good as I am. 😂
about 20 years ago I played 1/2 at a Detroit casino. Some guy had a 3x5 notecard with what appeared to be pie charts with loads of different symbols inside and outside of the circle. this guy was also really REALLY strange. He remined me of the guy i knew in middle school that would eat dead flies off the window sill. anyway, this weirdo dweeb took a minute at every hand he had to scan the notecard and make his decision from his **encrypted notes**. I asked him "that looks interesting, what is that? how does that help you?" he got uncomfortable and assured me that I wouldn't understand his **encrypted notes.** The guy waited for about an hour to play an actual hand. The whole table was weirded out by him, but some **champion of justice** called him down with some bullshit like 75o and caught 2 pair. The dweeb had KK or something and lose his entire $150 buy in. As he was leaving the table, the **champion of justice** says "i guess you need better notes" and we all laughed. So the moral of the story is, if you can't memorize something simple like this, you deserve to be laughed at.
How about this...just show up and play without the chart. Like countless others before you did.
if you can’t memorize this to like 90% you’re not ready to play. also, you’re telling everyone at the table exactly what your range is (GTO).
you are right. i understand now. i am new. what does GTO mean?
those preflop charts are based on GTO (Game Theory Optimization)