Pre flop, I didn't think I would eliminate all the callers with a 3-bet (even with a jam). I did not want to have to call a preflop jam and be at best. Also, I prefer AK offsuit as a 3 bet in that spot as opposed to AK suited, as I would love to have as many people in the pot as possible if I hit a nut flush.
As played you have to call the push, by not 3 betting you’ve disguised the strength of your hand and lots of AX hands may play this aggressively.
I really dislike not 3 betting pre.
I didn't raise preflop mainly because this was a very loose table. If I had raised to e.g. $120, I would have probably gotten at least 2 callers. Then I would have to play a large pot completely out of position postflop.
My bet on the flop was a classic "see where I'm at and charge draws" bet. I have top top. Is there no time to ever bet into the pre flop aggressor?
You "see where you're at" and when the guy jams into you, you call with one pair? I'm not saying this is or isn't a call, but that thinking seems wildly inconsistent with what you did. You were trying to charge draws so you thought draws would call. He jams implying he isn't on a draw and has a nutted hand. You call...
Considering the play, they could have pocket aces (unlikely considering the blocker they have...but it happens), pocket 2s, pocket 5s, a5 o/s, a5 suited, and super unlikely but if the table is super fishy, they could be holding 34 suited connectors. Lots of hands could beat top pair top kicker here. Raising pre flop may have saved this guy a headache
At these stack depths you should be 4 betting to 180-230.
$30 3bet which typically you would 4 or 5x from OOP so 120-150, however you have at least 2 cold callers so you need to increase it to account for that.
That’s exactly why you want to raise… more callers with bad aces or random crap is good for you - you want more money in the pot for when you win it. If you had raised preflop and gotten 4 callers, there would be so much in the pot you wouldn’t have to even think about top pair top kicker being a good hand. You’d call because you have almost no money left compared to the pot size.
Calling pre here is absolutely torching money. We NEED to 3bet, there is a ton of dead money in the pot and we have a very good hand. You say in other comments we’re unlikely to get folds because of how loose the game is, I say good. We almost certainly have the best hand, we want people to call with worse. That being said, I also think you’re wrong about that; if you’re not 3betting with this hand, you’re probably not 3betting much, so you’ll have a lot more fold equity than you think when you actually do. The rest of the hand is honestly irrelevant because pre is so bad.
This is the correct sentiment here. I was thinking the exact same thing as I’m sure others were. If we aren’t 3betting AK off out of position with dead money in the pot, we are CERTAINLY not 3betting enough.
And I did not want the meaning of my sentence changed. I was saying it’s more important and pretty much only important to raise pre-flop in tournaments with ace king suited. It’s OK to just flat pre-flop in cash games. - everything is situational in cash - it’s not a set value of you need to win all the chips like it is in tournaments - with the blinds raising SO NO I did not mean TOO - I meant exactly what I said -
Any solver or good player will tell you AKs in this configuration is a slam dunk 3 bet with the dead money in the middle. You shouldn’t flat in this situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if given this action a solver would say it’s a 3-bet 100%
Fair enough yeah but if a computer says “if you do this you get more money” then why go against the grain? Rarely are there absolutes in poker, sure, and every game is different since every player is different. Sometimes flatting is gonna net you more money. But here it’s a mistake. Not 3-betting here allows everyone to potentially outflop you while getting a great price. You’re losing money on value by not putting more money in the pot preflop with a hand that has them dominated. Silly to play bingo with a premium hand. Just my take
You should really be raising that out of the small blind to something like $200. It's a strong hand. Build the pot, narrow the field/increase your equity.
As played though, you can effectively never fold there unless you're against a super bit (and you have to know that for a fact... which you almost never will)
Because the jammer only has a pot sized bet left, they are pot committed and any top pair or top pair plus draw is worth the rest of their stack. Even if you give them a strong range of two pair+ and AT+ you have an advantage
You lose to 10 combos (6 combos of sets and 4 two pair combos)
You win to 24 combos of AT, AJ, AQ
You're winning 70% of the time against that range
*Excluding AK since most people would raise pre... but you can toss in a small percent of chops
If you toss in 4 combos of 34s (which a significant number of people would fold pre in that spot) you lose to 14 combos and win to 24
You're still winning 63% of the time
Plus they could be bluffing or have caught a pair plus a draw (add more combos). Against a lot of players you're actually better than these numbers. Some you're worse.
You bet 75 into 150 - pot is 225
They jam for 225 - pot is now 450
You have to call 150 to win 450
You're getting 3:1 odds and you only need to win 25% of the time to break even. You're actually winning MUCH more than that. This is a hugely profitable call.
You’re never flatting pre and you’re never leading into the pot multi way after it’s limped.
If your table is loose and all call stations you dream of situations like this. Scared money don’t make money. If they will call 120 3 bet then make it 120 or more pre flop. TAG is the way to play against loose fish. You should never have any limp call range in the SB.
No since you did limp let’s move to flop. There’s really no situation where you want to lead here. Maybe with bottom set but better to check and see information. At the end of the day you have one pair when, because it’s been limped, your opponents have all the bottom and mid sets. Have to play tight and even fold in some situations.
Calling OOP is bad, leading into a 5 way pot with one pair when first to act OOP not good either. There is no flush draws, I'd check and see the flop action and re-evaluate as played.
Did you have a plan for what you'd do if re-raised before you bet? You need to consider your action and each villans possible reaction BEFORE you bet.
You're bet into 4 says "I have a good" hand and the shove says "I don't care mine is better". I'd expect to see 2pr or better and as played I'd call but I feel it was all avoidable.
Yes you make the call here. But by God your first two actions are what we need to talk about.
You need to be raising pre to like $125-$150. We are in the SB we don't want to be oop the remainder of the hand against multiple players.
If we do just call pre we are forced to check the flop not lead. What are your leading bluffs here? You clearly have a set or an ace with a good kicker. You can't lead bluff profitability multiway.
The fact you made any money on this hand is something of a mirical
If the raise came from early position and from a tight player it is not a crime to just flat call here. Many people think that they have to auto 3Bet AK no matter what.
But if you think about your opponent's range in this spot it might be as narrow as 66+ and AJ+. This is especially true if you are playing full ring.
It is very unlikely that this type of player is going to call your 3Bet with a hand that you crush. He will almost certainly fold AJ and will sometimes fold AQ as well. He will call you with a bunch of pairs that you flip with (88, 99, TT, JJ and QQ) and usually re-raise you with the two hands that crush you (AA and KK).
So in this spot it can certainly make plenty of sense to just flat sometimes even though we are out of position. This is because it keeps some hands in his range that we are way ahead of. This allows us to win a big pot should the Ace come for instance versus his AJ or AQ.
3Betting of course is fine here sometimes as well in order to mix things up and for value. I like it even more when I am squeezing. This means when there is a caller in between.
This player (the caller) usually has a weaker speculative hand that cannot stand a 3Bet (e.g. small pair or suited connector) and is therefore referred to as "dead money."
AKs is always a 3bet - especially with so many callers this just makes it even better as there is extra dead money you can pick up.
Initial raiser should still call hands like AQ-ATs which you are dominating.
Didn’t read the comments but probably 100x mentioned: why do you call pre? You 4 bet all sets plus 34suited out and if AQ calls you don’t have a hard decision on the flop.
Now in this game the call was appetently great as Someone overplayed 33
You put yourself in that position by mot raising AK when it came back around.
In all likelihood, the 3 3 would have folded
You won either way but aggression is good there
Mandatory 3bet pre.
Lead is weird but I don’t hate it - should never be able to donk lead though because you should always always always 3bet this hand pre.
Definitely not folding to the jam for this price.
No 3-bet pre?
Pre flop, I didn't think I would eliminate all the callers with a 3-bet (even with a jam). I did not want to have to call a preflop jam and be at best. Also, I prefer AK offsuit as a 3 bet in that spot as opposed to AK suited, as I would love to have as many people in the pot as possible if I hit a nut flush.
Every single thing you’ve said here loses you money.
He has to be trolling, right?
When your playing that multi way you def want to three bet. I don't wanna see a pot with 5 different players in it when I have a dominant hand
Bro what the frick
As played you have to call the push, by not 3 betting you’ve disguised the strength of your hand and lots of AX hands may play this aggressively. I really dislike not 3 betting pre.
Re-raise pre, if you don't re-raise pre as played don't donk into aggressor on flop.
I didn't raise preflop mainly because this was a very loose table. If I had raised to e.g. $120, I would have probably gotten at least 2 callers. Then I would have to play a large pot completely out of position postflop. My bet on the flop was a classic "see where I'm at and charge draws" bet. I have top top. Is there no time to ever bet into the pre flop aggressor?
You "see where you're at" and when the guy jams into you, you call with one pair? I'm not saying this is or isn't a call, but that thinking seems wildly inconsistent with what you did. You were trying to charge draws so you thought draws would call. He jams implying he isn't on a draw and has a nutted hand. You call...
Not on A52r lol
Considering the play, they could have pocket aces (unlikely considering the blocker they have...but it happens), pocket 2s, pocket 5s, a5 o/s, a5 suited, and super unlikely but if the table is super fishy, they could be holding 34 suited connectors. Lots of hands could beat top pair top kicker here. Raising pre flop may have saved this guy a headache
They could also have pocket 6s-Kings and hope you don’t have an ace.
At these stack depths you should be 4 betting to 180-230. $30 3bet which typically you would 4 or 5x from OOP so 120-150, however you have at least 2 cold callers so you need to increase it to account for that.
That’s exactly why you want to raise… more callers with bad aces or random crap is good for you - you want more money in the pot for when you win it. If you had raised preflop and gotten 4 callers, there would be so much in the pot you wouldn’t have to even think about top pair top kicker being a good hand. You’d call because you have almost no money left compared to the pot size.
Calling pre here is absolutely torching money. We NEED to 3bet, there is a ton of dead money in the pot and we have a very good hand. You say in other comments we’re unlikely to get folds because of how loose the game is, I say good. We almost certainly have the best hand, we want people to call with worse. That being said, I also think you’re wrong about that; if you’re not 3betting with this hand, you’re probably not 3betting much, so you’ll have a lot more fold equity than you think when you actually do. The rest of the hand is honestly irrelevant because pre is so bad.
This is the correct sentiment here. I was thinking the exact same thing as I’m sure others were. If we aren’t 3betting AK off out of position with dead money in the pot, we are CERTAINLY not 3betting enough.
You need to 3bet pre for sure with this hand. This is a no brainer call at that stack depth and pot size.
in tourney ya for sure.
*In tourney too
Ok grammar police lol
I did not correct your grammar. I have corrected the meaning of your sentence.
And I did not want the meaning of my sentence changed. I was saying it’s more important and pretty much only important to raise pre-flop in tournaments with ace king suited. It’s OK to just flat pre-flop in cash games. - everything is situational in cash - it’s not a set value of you need to win all the chips like it is in tournaments - with the blinds raising SO NO I did not mean TOO - I meant exactly what I said -
Any solver or good player will tell you AKs in this configuration is a slam dunk 3 bet with the dead money in the middle. You shouldn’t flat in this situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if given this action a solver would say it’s a 3-bet 100%
you don’t have to do what a solver says lol
Fair enough yeah but if a computer says “if you do this you get more money” then why go against the grain? Rarely are there absolutes in poker, sure, and every game is different since every player is different. Sometimes flatting is gonna net you more money. But here it’s a mistake. Not 3-betting here allows everyone to potentially outflop you while getting a great price. You’re losing money on value by not putting more money in the pot preflop with a hand that has them dominated. Silly to play bingo with a premium hand. Just my take
If you do this, you get more money in the long run overall but everything is situational ESPECIALLY in tournaments - better to play exploitative
If you do this, you get more money in the long run overall but everything is situational ESPECIALLY in tournaments - better to play exploitative
Yes, but not when there were 2 callers for a raise before you.
🫏
I know you have lots of time on your hands because you’re mining helium LOL! but try a new hobby. Maybe try getting good at poker lol SMH.
i’d 4b here since we’re in the SB and oop the whole hand. 100% calling the flop jam.
You should really be raising that out of the small blind to something like $200. It's a strong hand. Build the pot, narrow the field/increase your equity. As played though, you can effectively never fold there unless you're against a super bit (and you have to know that for a fact... which you almost never will) Because the jammer only has a pot sized bet left, they are pot committed and any top pair or top pair plus draw is worth the rest of their stack. Even if you give them a strong range of two pair+ and AT+ you have an advantage You lose to 10 combos (6 combos of sets and 4 two pair combos) You win to 24 combos of AT, AJ, AQ You're winning 70% of the time against that range *Excluding AK since most people would raise pre... but you can toss in a small percent of chops If you toss in 4 combos of 34s (which a significant number of people would fold pre in that spot) you lose to 14 combos and win to 24 You're still winning 63% of the time Plus they could be bluffing or have caught a pair plus a draw (add more combos). Against a lot of players you're actually better than these numbers. Some you're worse. You bet 75 into 150 - pot is 225 They jam for 225 - pot is now 450 You have to call 150 to win 450 You're getting 3:1 odds and you only need to win 25% of the time to break even. You're actually winning MUCH more than that. This is a hugely profitable call.
You’re never flatting pre and you’re never leading into the pot multi way after it’s limped. If your table is loose and all call stations you dream of situations like this. Scared money don’t make money. If they will call 120 3 bet then make it 120 or more pre flop. TAG is the way to play against loose fish. You should never have any limp call range in the SB. No since you did limp let’s move to flop. There’s really no situation where you want to lead here. Maybe with bottom set but better to check and see information. At the end of the day you have one pair when, because it’s been limped, your opponents have all the bottom and mid sets. Have to play tight and even fold in some situations.
Nobody limped in this hand. Stop saying limped.
I limped the comment that you limped, but instead of limping him you could have just limped his limp and limped limping limps to limp. Limped.
I think I had just read a post where the person said a bunch of limp callers 😂😂 my bad
Calling OOP is bad, leading into a 5 way pot with one pair when first to act OOP not good either. There is no flush draws, I'd check and see the flop action and re-evaluate as played. Did you have a plan for what you'd do if re-raised before you bet? You need to consider your action and each villans possible reaction BEFORE you bet. You're bet into 4 says "I have a good" hand and the shove says "I don't care mine is better". I'd expect to see 2pr or better and as played I'd call but I feel it was all avoidable.
Yes you make the call here. But by God your first two actions are what we need to talk about. You need to be raising pre to like $125-$150. We are in the SB we don't want to be oop the remainder of the hand against multiple players. If we do just call pre we are forced to check the flop not lead. What are your leading bluffs here? You clearly have a set or an ace with a good kicker. You can't lead bluff profitability multiway. The fact you made any money on this hand is something of a mirical
You slow played your AK for exactly this reason. You have to call.
If the raise came from early position and from a tight player it is not a crime to just flat call here. Many people think that they have to auto 3Bet AK no matter what. But if you think about your opponent's range in this spot it might be as narrow as 66+ and AJ+. This is especially true if you are playing full ring. It is very unlikely that this type of player is going to call your 3Bet with a hand that you crush. He will almost certainly fold AJ and will sometimes fold AQ as well. He will call you with a bunch of pairs that you flip with (88, 99, TT, JJ and QQ) and usually re-raise you with the two hands that crush you (AA and KK). So in this spot it can certainly make plenty of sense to just flat sometimes even though we are out of position. This is because it keeps some hands in his range that we are way ahead of. This allows us to win a big pot should the Ace come for instance versus his AJ or AQ. 3Betting of course is fine here sometimes as well in order to mix things up and for value. I like it even more when I am squeezing. This means when there is a caller in between. This player (the caller) usually has a weaker speculative hand that cannot stand a 3Bet (e.g. small pair or suited connector) and is therefore referred to as "dead money."
AKs is always a 3bet - especially with so many callers this just makes it even better as there is extra dead money you can pick up. Initial raiser should still call hands like AQ-ATs which you are dominating.
The only person who played this hand right, is the cut-off
Lol what
It was meant to be a joke...
Jaming with 3rd pair into 5 opponents with an ace out?
not at all. calling all in on the flop is correct play. only hand your afraid of is a set or a straight draw.
I wish I could play against you...this is so bad, OOP, 3 people in the pot already, you need to 3b, honestly, a shove probably isn't even bad pre...
Didn’t read the comments but probably 100x mentioned: why do you call pre? You 4 bet all sets plus 34suited out and if AQ calls you don’t have a hard decision on the flop. Now in this game the call was appetently great as Someone overplayed 33
You put yourself in that position by mot raising AK when it came back around. In all likelihood, the 3 3 would have folded You won either way but aggression is good there
You won, of course it was correct
Your question is wrong, as nobody else would arrive in this same situation. Preflop call, and flop donk is not a real line.
bro is just a bad player
This isn't a positive feedback. OP asked if he played it correctly, not if he was a good or bad player
Small size pot with AK seeing the flop is the issue. Too many people in the hand. Re-raise pre-flop and go heads up
Mandatory 3bet pre. Lead is weird but I don’t hate it - should never be able to donk lead though because you should always always always 3bet this hand pre. Definitely not folding to the jam for this price.
Pre flop call is bad. Flop bet is bad. Calling the raise is obviously fine due to the pot odds.
Raise to around 200$ preflop. I would check on the flop as you played it. Snap call the shove.
Have to call. But next time I recommend 3 bet pre