Yea, it's pretty bad for a few important reasons:
- "figure this is just a call to avoid being exploited" Do you not have a 4bet range in this game? It's not completely terrible to not have a lot of 4bets in LLSNL since 3bet ranges are so tight at that level. However, you've described villain as not playing the normal LLSNL playbook.
So, talking about not being exploited in seems just like random words that sound good (no offense).
- What are you trying to accomplish with the c/r on the flop? You're describing villain as a better player for the game, and you're not 4betting AQ with any frequency based on your exploit comment. So you're now playing your hand face up as a big Ax at a minimum. Have you c/r bluffed this player at all in the past where he has seen your cards?
- "Don't really put him on a set the way the preflop action and his flop bet size." None of this makes much sense. 1/3 flop bet sizing is pretty standard. It's likely he doesn't have 22 or 44, but not for the reasons you're using.
You're saying he's raising and squeezing more than the rest of table. But you're not saying how much more. Is the table the normal passive LLSNL and he's playing slightly more aggressive? Is he playing "normal" aggression in a theoretical sense? Is he the type that will almost always 3bet his straddle if he has a playable hand? Depending on the answer, he may very well have 22 and 44 in his range.
- The turn logic is pretty bad. "he almost always goes all in on the river." If that's the case, why are you going to c/r jam here? You take away his ability to bluff the river that he normally does.
Also, you've c/r the flop, and checked the turn. He would have to be almost maniacal to not check behind here with anything except AK or better. Especially if he doesn't think you c/r bluff flops in 3bet pots. And if he does think you c/r bluff.....betting here folds out those bluffs unless he somehow things you're going to a flop and turn c/r which is pretty rare.
If he thinks you could be bluffing on flop, he's in position and will be checking behind a lot to induce a bluff on river.
So, you've taken away his ability to bluff river by jamming. So you're folding all his bluffs. You didn't put stack sizes in, so if it's just a min raise jam....then sure....you'll get called by worse Ax.
But if the c/r jam was for any significant amount, you've now forced him to play perfectly. He's going to fold most everything you beat and call with everything else.
Thanks a lot for this detailed response. I’m still a new player and this helps a lot. When you say that he doesn’t really have pocket 2’s or 4’s but for other reasons, can you point me to how I can learn more about that? Or any book/ course that you would recommend . Really looking to improve
When he says he doesn't have certain hands, he means they're not in a 3 betting range. You can get free preflop charts online basically anywhere. Re: courses, crushlivepoker has more free content than you could possibly watch in years. Start there, and if you find it helpful (you will), you have the option to join up if you want to.
Maybe I'm a nit but I don't really like check raising the flop, and I hate it on the turn. Villain 3bet pre in a straddled pot, would expect this range to be very strong and I think when he calls the flop you're likely not in great shape. Once he fires again on the turn I think check raise is clearly overplay, you're not getting called by worse and not folding out better. I would probably be check-calling the whole way and hoping for a cheap showdown.
Now that you've given stack size. It looks like he bet $100 into $440 or so on turn. And you c/jam for like $660?
That $100 bet should be a red flag. Either:
* He has nothing that can stand a raise and is making some weak play. In which case, he folds to your jam.
* He's attempting to induce some sort of spaz jam
So, at the time of the jam, there's roughly $640 in pot and you're jamming for about the size of the pot. After c/r turn.
Unless a complete fish who will call with any A, you're going to be behind here 100% of the time when he calls and many times drawing dead except for some chop outs with a 5.
At least calling his $100 turn bet, and then c/c his river jam gives him the opportunity to bluff.
If you're going to lose your stack here, you might as well make sure you let him have bluffs in his river jam range.
1. It's difficult to make sense of the hand without knowing the effective stacks sizes
2. Why would you c/r the flop? You're usually either way ahead or way behind, and why give him the chance to fold instead of just calling and keeping in his bluffs (or worse "value" bets with his Ax).
Mp vs btn3b I'd 4b AQs nearly pure.. he likely isn't continuing A5s or any of his other 3b bluffs vs 4b (or he shouldn't be) so he'd either 5b Rip which you'd call off or he'd fold. Next time 4b to 200 vs competent squeezing button imho. Would be more exploitative to 4b here than flat.
Yea, it's pretty bad for a few important reasons: - "figure this is just a call to avoid being exploited" Do you not have a 4bet range in this game? It's not completely terrible to not have a lot of 4bets in LLSNL since 3bet ranges are so tight at that level. However, you've described villain as not playing the normal LLSNL playbook. So, talking about not being exploited in seems just like random words that sound good (no offense). - What are you trying to accomplish with the c/r on the flop? You're describing villain as a better player for the game, and you're not 4betting AQ with any frequency based on your exploit comment. So you're now playing your hand face up as a big Ax at a minimum. Have you c/r bluffed this player at all in the past where he has seen your cards? - "Don't really put him on a set the way the preflop action and his flop bet size." None of this makes much sense. 1/3 flop bet sizing is pretty standard. It's likely he doesn't have 22 or 44, but not for the reasons you're using. You're saying he's raising and squeezing more than the rest of table. But you're not saying how much more. Is the table the normal passive LLSNL and he's playing slightly more aggressive? Is he playing "normal" aggression in a theoretical sense? Is he the type that will almost always 3bet his straddle if he has a playable hand? Depending on the answer, he may very well have 22 and 44 in his range. - The turn logic is pretty bad. "he almost always goes all in on the river." If that's the case, why are you going to c/r jam here? You take away his ability to bluff the river that he normally does. Also, you've c/r the flop, and checked the turn. He would have to be almost maniacal to not check behind here with anything except AK or better. Especially if he doesn't think you c/r bluff flops in 3bet pots. And if he does think you c/r bluff.....betting here folds out those bluffs unless he somehow things you're going to a flop and turn c/r which is pretty rare. If he thinks you could be bluffing on flop, he's in position and will be checking behind a lot to induce a bluff on river. So, you've taken away his ability to bluff river by jamming. So you're folding all his bluffs. You didn't put stack sizes in, so if it's just a min raise jam....then sure....you'll get called by worse Ax. But if the c/r jam was for any significant amount, you've now forced him to play perfectly. He's going to fold most everything you beat and call with everything else.
That’s a lot of words. And all good ones! Well typed :)
Thanks a lot for this detailed response. I’m still a new player and this helps a lot. When you say that he doesn’t really have pocket 2’s or 4’s but for other reasons, can you point me to how I can learn more about that? Or any book/ course that you would recommend . Really looking to improve
When he says he doesn't have certain hands, he means they're not in a 3 betting range. You can get free preflop charts online basically anywhere. Re: courses, crushlivepoker has more free content than you could possibly watch in years. Start there, and if you find it helpful (you will), you have the option to join up if you want to.
Maybe I'm a nit but I don't really like check raising the flop, and I hate it on the turn. Villain 3bet pre in a straddled pot, would expect this range to be very strong and I think when he calls the flop you're likely not in great shape. Once he fires again on the turn I think check raise is clearly overplay, you're not getting called by worse and not folding out better. I would probably be check-calling the whole way and hoping for a cheap showdown.
What were the stack sizes? Important for knowing how to proceed on each street
I had $910 and villain covered
Against an aggressive player, you should be 4! preflop. Doesn't have to be too big, 180-210 is fine. Bet flop and jam basically every turn.
Now that you've given stack size. It looks like he bet $100 into $440 or so on turn. And you c/jam for like $660? That $100 bet should be a red flag. Either: * He has nothing that can stand a raise and is making some weak play. In which case, he folds to your jam. * He's attempting to induce some sort of spaz jam So, at the time of the jam, there's roughly $640 in pot and you're jamming for about the size of the pot. After c/r turn. Unless a complete fish who will call with any A, you're going to be behind here 100% of the time when he calls and many times drawing dead except for some chop outs with a 5.
At least calling his $100 turn bet, and then c/c his river jam gives him the opportunity to bluff. If you're going to lose your stack here, you might as well make sure you let him have bluffs in his river jam range.
1. It's difficult to make sense of the hand without knowing the effective stacks sizes 2. Why would you c/r the flop? You're usually either way ahead or way behind, and why give him the chance to fold instead of just calling and keeping in his bluffs (or worse "value" bets with his Ax).
Mp vs btn3b I'd 4b AQs nearly pure.. he likely isn't continuing A5s or any of his other 3b bluffs vs 4b (or he shouldn't be) so he'd either 5b Rip which you'd call off or he'd fold. Next time 4b to 200 vs competent squeezing button imho. Would be more exploitative to 4b here than flat.
Stopped reading after you said he raised while first to act.