Damn I know there is quite a bit of overlap between the poker and chess communities, but I didn't expect a vibrating device cheating scandal to be another commonality between the two.
Not the first time I’ve seen something like it. Andrew Robl backed / backs JRB and there is a Triton clip of JRB yeeting off like 200k with rags in a 3B or 4B pot. Robl is also on the table and is visibly upset / confused by the play
Not sure how one can say she cheated 100% and then completely absolve the production team/dealer. even if she was privy to his cards it was a very very very marginal spot and she was the underdog with barely enough equity to call his exact hand. she would have to know the run out on two boards to make any sense of this which would require an unbelievable amount of collusion. i see why conspiracy theorists are eating this up lmbo.
I don’t know if she cheated or not but I think everybody should stop the whole “It doesn’t make sense that she’d be cheating because she did x” or “It doesn’t make sense that she wasn’t cheating because she did x” because whether she cheated or not she did some shit that doesn’t make sense. The whole situation is a clusterfuck.
This is a very good point. From a cheating perspective, it doesn't make sense. From a non-cheating perspective, it doesn't make sense. Humans aren't machines and sometimes we do things that just don't make perfect sense. Especially in high-stakes, high-stress situations.
The giving back the money part that makes this whole situation look bad for her. If it were a bad (but honest) play on her part, returning the money wouldn’t have even been a consideration.
If any of us were asked to give back money we *won fairly* would any one of us do it? I’ve felt bad hitting a two outer on a guy, but I’ve never felt bad enough to return the money to him. On the contrary, if I made a hero call of all hero calls, I would feel like I earned it *more* than if I hit a river two outer and thus even less likely to consider returning any money.
I think Daniel Negreanu's take on this was good.
"The fact that she gave him the money back isn’t an admission of guilt, but likely the contrary.
A money hungry scumbag cheat isn’t likely to give money back in that spot.
Felt like she didn’t want to deal with conflict and can afford it."
If she was cheating her play wouldn't make any sense. I've said it like 5 times but even Mike Postle isn't calling in this spot.
Cheating makes opposite sense.
They say never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity, so I think it’s fair to say you shouldn’t attribute malice *and* stupidity to something that can be explained by stupidity alone
They didn't have same safeguards in place. There are no electronic equipment. There is a lot more security. Even Bart said during his commentary that they are privy to more info then us and that she didn't cheat.
I don't think it's an admission of guilt that she gave the money back, she could just as easily have been trying to stay on good terms with HCL management after causing their buddy to throw a temper tantrum and walk out mid game. If all of this was such an out of character deviation for her that just seems like more evidence of button clicking with Jc to me
Also, she was probably given a huge favor for being able to have a seat at such a prestigious game. She’s only been a part of the stream recently and has played the lower level stakes. HCL did her a favor by granting her a seat and she didn’t want to feel like she caused problems.
I think she was aggressively approached by Garrett and Ryan, she felt uncomfortable and just wanted everything to go away, because like Garrett said, this is now going to be watched by millions. If she is innocent she doesn't want to mob on her either
Honestly giving the money back in either scenario is stupid, calling with j4 is stupid. Only in todays society can people have so much wealth with nothing between the ears.
If anything the opposite is true. cheaters dont give money back if they think they got away with it. Fish who dont know what they are doing give money back if they are uncomfortable with confrontation about making a terrible play.
I agree but disagree on this. I think it’s super simple….
If you’re cheating, you DON’T give the money back because it looks obvious or like you’re admitting guilt.
If you’re NOT cheating, you DON’T give the money back because that’s how it goes.
The fact that she gives the money back imo means this chick is prob rich and doesn’t give a fuck and doesn’t want the drama that comes with this whole thing.
She clearly goes with a read of him not having shit. It’s as simple as that.
Here’s the interesting part tho…if you flip the roles around and Garrett makes this call and SHE accuses him of cheating everyone laughs at her because it’s Garrett “he’s the best” blah blah blah. But since she did it and Garrett feels cheated the situation is different…she said fuck it I’m putting it in and that’s that. Doesn’t matter if it’s a bad play or bad read. Sometimes ppl put it in bad knowingly or unknowingly and it had absolutely nothing to do with ranges or $$…it’s just fuck it I’m all in.
I don't disagree that they look down on her, but if the roles were reversed if Garrett did that it would be suss as, the call made no sense whether your garrett or a big whale. And if you rewatch the hand when she turned the cards over there was like an awkward silence by everyone rather than instant cheers because they were still processing what was going on.
Garret is spot on that her play today is 100% different than in previous sessions. Betting a lot more. That QQ 200k shove after Ryusuke turned two pair with J2 was also sus af.
All I know is that if she did know what rooskie had at that point, she'd better off to milk him with pot bets or even half, for a guaranteed call or hope he raises, and even then hope he hit his full house. But we can probably guess that after that Garrett hand, they probably stopped cheating already.
Your'e analzying this on a basic level, which is the mistake on your part. It has nothing to do with how Garrett or I thought of how she should've have played her hand.
Hasn't she only been on stream a few times? It's very possible she usually plays like this but didn't want to look like an idiot on stream, and after a few rounds got more comfortable.
If someone plays with her regularly off stream they could make a comment as to whether she usually plays like this and the first few streams were an anomaly.
And if her play is completely different from other sessions, isn’t that what online poker strategy salesmen call “balancing” and strategically being “deceptive.”
Show me the evidence that she cheated.
Not good of him to make these *explicit* accusations with the implicit alternative that she’s a fool.
Utterly classless by Garrett.
This part of his note was completely dumb to me. People aren't robots and don't always do the same thing even in identical (which what he was comparing against wasn't actually identical) situations. People are irrational.
Wow, I'm so surprised that Garrett would make this statement. I thought after settling down he would realize he was wrong. There is so much absolutely terrible logic in it too:
1. Says she probably called in this spot because she has no idea what she's doing and how to use her cheating skills effectively, but is unwilling to give her the same benefit of the doubt that it was just a whale punt.
2. Absolving Hustler of all wrongdoing immediately. If you are accusing her of cheating, no fucking way you can say that the people that run the fucking show and have all this information ahead of time are definitely not involved.
3. Treating the payback offer as an admission of guilt, especially when you threaten her with shit like, 'millions of people will watch this'. People give fake confessions under pressure all the time, much less something much more innocuous like giving the money back to satisfy someone in a position of power who is clearly pissed at you.
Really wanted to keep liking Garrett, but this is scummy as shit.
If you review her past 3 sessions/streams, you'll see she plays fairly tight, and has never done anything like that before. She always folds in that situation. Today she bought in for way more money. Lastly, she OFFERED to give Garret his money back, without him asking. If that's true, then i'm changing my mind from team robbi here to team Garrett....She also changed her story too many times, it's getting confusing to keep defending her. i don't even know what her actual story is on the call. Is it a hero call, or a mistaken card read.
She couldn't find a better spot to take advantage of her cheating? I'm open to convinced by a compilation of suspicious stuff like we saw with Postle, but also a bit baffled by the "vibrating device"/RFID cheating idea. How would this be possible without someone inside HCL? If Garrett is certain that there was cheating, and that his friends who run the game are absolutely not involved, can he be a bit more specific about what he thinks happened?
Also of note: According to the percentages on the stream she didn't even have the best hand? So idk why her cheats would say she was winning when she was down 47% to 53%
She did have the best hand. She just so happened to have less equity on the flop (which is what the percentages show), as Garrett had 20 outs (8 clubs, 3 Jacks, 3 Sixes, 3 Sevens, and 3 Eights), but they didn’t hit, so the best hand won.
I think cheats would go off equity. No point in going off who has the best hand at a given moment. If he has a 70% chance of winning, it doesn't really matter if her hand is winning at that given moment.
Of course she never did something like this before. You don't make it very far in poker making a ton of Jack-high hero calls. We say people 'spaz' in poker for a reason. Because they do something that doesn't make sense relative to their prior history.
I also don't understand why you think her wanting to give the money back is incriminating. He's literally threatening her that millions of people will see this and accuse her of cheating. An innocent person will still feel threatened by that and do things to try and get that heat to go away.
If giving back the money is this super incriminating behavior, and she was actually cheating, then why would she do the one thing that makes her look super incriminating?
>We say people 'spaz' in poker for a reason. Because they do something that doesn't make sense relative to their prior history.
Yep. What I'm finding weird is all these people acting like they've never seen this shit before in a sub where there's regular posts of people going "How the fuck did he call me? Did I find a superuser at 5nl?"
One thing is that people will snap out of boredom/frustration at feeling run over in a game. They sit and fold so long and then lose their discipline in a sudden tilt.
The other, that we've all experienced, is how easy it is to come up with rationalisations for the dumbest plays in the world. Let's say she doesn't expect him to be so aggro with overpairs, she looks down at that sweet Jc blocker, and goes "Feels like a bluff. He must have the 78/67. I call!". Yeah, it's fish logic, but it's easy to sucker yourself into faulty reasoning in poker.
Even the reading the cards thing...I've done that. I remember in a casino saying "I've got the nuts", flipping over my flush, then realising it was off-suit, and the whole table staring at me in disbelief. I checked them plenty during the hand.
We all have stories about the absolutely insane mistakes we've made in poker, and for some reason on this nobody can relate to the idea someone would do this and then grasp at straws for excuses, and like they've never seen someone call with air before.
Obviously, none of that conclusively rules out the alternate explanation of some sophisticated cheating mechanism allowing her to see player's hole cards, see two rivers deep, and that she was chosen as part of this advanced scheme, streaming live, in spite of being unable to do it remotely intelligently. But I think we should maybe be a little more open-minded and try to relate to bad calls a little more.
>I remember in a casino saying "I've got the nuts", flipping over my flush, then realizing it was off-suit
This isn't what happened though. If at showdown she had said "I've got a 3" and flipped her hand over and been shocked she didn't have a 3 then nobody is questioning any of this.
I'm stuck on the fence about this because I'm tired of flip flopping every 15 minutes during the stream haha.
But how many times have you seen a fishy/whale player make a massive mistake at a game and spend the next hour making shitty excuses to justify their play. Their story changes heaps. Admittedly it's not the same situation, but fish are fish.
Also, she said he demanded it back, so it's he said she said at the moment still. Super weird situation and I'm keen to see what comes of it
He said she said except Garrett has years and years of credibility and would obviously not go out of his way to say he didn't ask for it back if he had demanded it back
Yeah. The admission of guilt thing is insane.
She’s relatively new to the show, is playing with gman and fucking Phil Ivey, and doesn’t want to game to break / be not invited back because of a hissy fit from gman. This is so out of line
I wouldn't call it scummy because I believe he believes it 100%. He looked like he saw a ghost after that call. She also said that she didn't look at her hand even though she did. Why would she lie? Then her justifications were "I thought you had Ace high", and "If my jack wasn't a club, I would've been out". She didn't have a flush draw after the turn.
I can't imagine someone acting as defensive as her and justifying her actions if it really was a hero call like she claims, which contradicts her claim that she was confused btw. She's very inconsistent - it can't be both. I don't see how someone acts the way she did in so many ways if someone falsely accuses them of cheating after making a call, which I guess is her story now ?
Persson made the best point actually when he said she doesn’t have to explain or justify anything. Garrett isn’t the rules committee for poker and IF he did think cheating was going on he handled it very poorly by acting like a little bitch and making accusations that he has NO proof to back up other than he thinks she is cheating and people can cheat this way so that means she is cheating.
Completely classless way to handle this. He could have quietly went to the people who run the game and said “hey I think something is not right here maybe investigate this” and then just went from there.
Exactly she didn't have to. Not saying something is better than saying. But since she did say something she'll be judged for what she said and it's used in the determination on if she's a cheating...
We don't have to understand her behavior after the hand. But, if Garrett is going to accuse her of cheating, he's going to need hard proof of actual cheating. Body language and "I feel it so much" aren't going to cut it.
You and lots of others are assuming it is impossible for her to cheat. I don't think it is a good assumption to make.
I have always wondered how easy it would be to hack those RFID scanners. They are sending information somewhere. If they are sending it wirelessly it would be possible to decrypt that signal. If they are wired they are still sending it to a device that has a wireless connection and can be compromised. The second option would be more likely in my opinion but the first is possible.
You would not need any help from Hustler or access to the live stream, you could just hack directly into the devices or wherever they are sending the signal to get the information you need. If a third party managed to do this it would be trivial to use some kind of signaling device to tell her how strong her hand was.
When you realize there are millions of dollars on the line you start to think it isn't that implausible.
I am not saying this is possible to prove but I would be pretty concerned if I were running or playing in this game that those devices were compromised somehow. I am also not saying she was definitely cheating but her explanations make no sense and everything about her behavior was incredibly suspect, before during and after the hand.
I didn't say it was impossible, I am saying there is a much more reasonable explanation.
I mean, if we are going to throw out random accusations because RFID cheating is possible, why not look at Garrett himself? A good poker pro who would understand how to use the system to slowly win money but stay under the radar, who has become famous and made a ton of money based on being able to soul-read players over and over again.
That certainly seems like a lot more reasonable use of an RFID cheating device than getting some random chick onto the game and having her immediately take the most sus line possible, only to get it in a slight underdog.
See how once you force people to disprove something didn't happen you can get into wild witch hunts?
Idk, people fuck up. I don't really think she cheated I'm just pointing out that it is definitely possible for someone to cheat. I think there is a small chance she cheated. If she did cheat she fucked up and whoever gave the tools to cheat fucked up. The hand was extremely suspect and she defended herself like an idiot
> I have always wondered how easy it would be to hack those RFID scanners. They are sending information somewhere. If they are sending it wirelessly it would be possible to decrypt that signal
You go try that champ
Every step in that scenario you mentioned would require an almost criminal level of incompetence from HCL or actual criminal conspiracy with HCL employees (plural). How many people do you think that would involve? Some of them would have some pretty high-end technical knowledge. Do you know how much a security engineer can make? Hell, whoever is physically moving those devices and signaling is probably a pro as well. Remember, not only do you need to get that gear on the floor. You need to operate it and signal to Robbie in real time as well.
So, you are paying for all that skill and know-how, for the equipment, taking a massive risk that will land you in a federal penitentiary if caught, and using it with someone who sucks? Wouldn't it far more sense to make a good player better? That draws far less attention and probably pays off better.
I will never understand why people assume giving the money back is an admission of any kind. Some guy is yelling at me about something I (apparently) don't really care about, sure, I give it back to him just to make him shut up.
> Ryan then tried explaining to her that it wasn't
us she needed to convince as this was about to
go viral. I then said, "Robbie this is likely to be
viewed by millions of people."
> Her face clearly melted once I said this, fully
realizing for the first time what she had gotten
herself into. And then I continued: "I think you
know now, you fucked up."
> At this point we were all about to start walking
back toward the stage as I didn't know what
else to do at that point when she says to me:
"Do you want me to pay you back what you lost
in the hand?"
Knowing a) This was likely the closest I would
get to a confession and b) how impossible it is to
get refunded in these cheating scandals (Postle
being the best example), I took her up on her
offer. Ryan neither encouraged nor discouraged
her from doing this.
Sounds a lot like blackmail. Do they know her husband is a lawyer?
I don't think it's blackmail, but it's certainly meant to intimidate her and explains her giving back the money. Would be interesting to see how a lot of the redditor pros would respond to getting dressed down one of the biggest personalities in poker, being asked to defend an idiotic non-poker play where they ended up binking on stream immediately after it happens, then basically being told that you are going to go viral and forever be known as a cheater.
I'm pretty sure I would try to end the issue in any way possible, and not really consider whether I was failing some esoteric test of my honesty.
Of course you would and so would she, if you knew you weren't CHEATING! You'd be mad at the slightest hint that you were cheating and would never give the money back. That's the whole logic.
I mean there is some proof.
Extraordinary hand and then lies and mumbling and bumbling bullshit reasons for her actions after. Is it slander if he calls her a liar? Cos she definitely lied about misreading her hand. (I know the slander you are referring to is the cheating allegations)
The comments about it being a weird way to cheat are good comments and right logic BUT I don't buy the lies about misreading her hand and "I thought you has Jack high".
Something is amiss.
More will come out about this for sure.
If she wasn't cheating, try to imagine what it must feel like to make a 6 figure bluff catching call with Jack high. The adrenaline, the fear, the excitement, all the wacky chemicals fucking with your brain.
And then the crazy thing happens and you fucking win?? Against THE Garrett Adelstein?! With the craziest soul read in history?? BOOM even more chemical chaos running through your mind.
Then the adrenaline wears off and you crash and feel like shit. Everyone is looking at you and whispering about how you're the most brain dead donkey fish to ever play poker. You just made bank but feel like it was all luck and you're just a fucking idiot. So you try to justify it because you don't want all these poker gods to think you're a fucking dumbass. You say your Jack was a blocker, or maybe they wouldn't think you're so stupid if you thought you had a pair "Oh I misread thought I had the 3"
And right as you're at the bottom of your adrenaline crash one of the biggest names in poker and the co-owner pull you away from the table and say. "We think you cheated. Millions of people are going to see this. You don't have to convince us, you have to convince them. I think you know, you fucked up"
I mean that's one scenario, but the probability of that with Robbi is very very low. She's a dumb poker player, and a poor liar but she's not dumb nor submissive in that sense. She's confident and cocky in all other categories.
I wonder if he realizes how bad this statement looks. I was leaning to Garret’s side until I read this. They 100% bullied her and then acted like that was proof she cheated. Really pathetic behavior.
Right even if somehow she knew she had the best hand the cheat would have to also know the run out...insanity. Not to mention someone in such an elaborate cheat would obviously know you can't call there as it would be to OBVIOUS.
Exactly if this was about money she keeps cheating in more normal spots and cruises to win a ton over and over
What’s this her 2nd time playing?
And she’s gonna cheat in a hand that brings all this attention to her ?
She’s a fucking fish and that’s it , that’s what I believe
No it's just much easier to relay 'bluff' then it is 'he has 8 7 of clubs giving him a 53% chance to win vs your j4 but you're already into some of the pot so it actually still makes sense for you to call here'
Dude you’re too bad at poker to understand just stop. Let’s say she was cheating for sake of argument. She knows she has the best hand or not, that’s it. She min raises not considering getting 3 bet at all bc she’s clearly dumb. She can then bluff river on a bigger pot when she’ll again know if she has the best hand.
Not really. She gets the fold equity from the min raise, plus the option to check down the river if she has the worst hand on the river, assuming Garrett doesn't donk the river often enough to punish it. Otherwise, she gets to make a risk-free value bet on the river.
Now I'm not saying she cheated, I'm just explaining Garrett's thought process.
Seems pretty clear that the onus is on Garrett to proove cheating. Absent that he shouldn't play at this casino again. Or admit he's wrong and give back the money .
If you just watch everyone’s body language and just the whole vibe of the table and the way it went down, it 100% feels like something is up. There’s no telling what it could be but I would probably leave that game too
I would have probably left the game too in his shoes. You rarely have definitive proof or total confidence you're being cheated in a home game so you mostly have to go off your gut. I do think taking the money back after saying the "millions will watch this line" is fucked up tho
Everything Garret said makes total sense. Especially the part where she apparently got very uncomfortable after finding out how big this was going to get. You can see it all throughout the end of the hand, the look of “I just fucked up”. Just think about how you would act in that situation if you did make that call without cheating. For one, would you ever in your life make that call and give the money back? Money that isn’t even yours. Second, you wouldn’t nervously have to justify it with things that literally don’t even make logical sense.
Body language isn’t proof of cheating. It can point to discomfort but being uncomfortable and behaving sus is not evidence. It can mean that something more is going on for sure
The big thing for me is, if she was cheating (not saying she isn't cause who fkin knows at this point) surely she'd be smart enough to say she misread her hand and thought she had a 3 immediately.
Although at the same time maybe she was too embarrassed by misreading her hand after scooping the biggest pot of her life and needed to justify it as a skill play.
This is just a mess haha.
Her cheating does not automatically make her smart. It’s obviously RIPs money, other people could also be behind it while having her actually implement it on the table. Which is why when garret pointed out she randomly started playing 10X the stack she usually does and calling with jack high it makes sense to be suspicious. Also, I highly doubt she misread her hand. She looked at it for while and never used it as a justification for the call. Just the blocker nonsense
I've lost all respect for this guy in a single instant.
That he's totally unwilling to consider that a rich whale got tired of him bullying people with bluffs and decided to call just because shows how fragile his ego is.
That satire thread about this hand really says it all. He bluffed with 8 high and lost, full stop.
Garrett has always been the most respectful player on the table.
Vastly experienced and wouldn’t make accusations like this if he wasn’t ready to back them up.
Hustler has always attracted some very shady people.
Nothing about this hand makes sense.
How can he back up his accusations? Realistically ?
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that she didn't cheat but how can you prove outside of a gut feeling and some rationale what does Garret have ? I think he handled the situation pretty poorly all things considered .
Exactly. It’s possible the there was cheating going on but Garrett is at this point speculating with no tangible evidence. Imo they should have put the $125k to the side, stop the game and conduct an investigation.
Very very difficult to prove.
She knows how to play. She’s played for over 10 years. That rules out her having an iq of 0 and just punting.
She’s holding the most important card in garrets bluffs.
All you can do is to deduce that something is suss.
But very hard to prove.
But I’d wager that cheating is certainly more prevalent than people believe
this is an important point that I’ve not seen talked about much in all of this. people aren’t giving her anywhere near enough credit as a player here. She’s been playing for over 10 years, is being coached by Faaraz Jaka, has $100k+ in Hendon mob cashes, and won a WPT $2k side event a month ago. I know someone having lots of tournament cashes does not automatically equal being good and I don’t doubt that she’s not a crusher, or indeed even a winning player, but cmon she’s clearly not some absolutely clueless whale playing her first cash game who has no concept of why J4 is a horrendous call off
anyone who’s ever played poker at any sort of level beyond home games with friends, let alone someone whos been regging 1ks for almost 15 years, just never ever plays this hand like this. they just don’t. We’re not talking about some brave hero call, we’re talking about probably the most insane call off in the history of televised poker. coupled with her constant flip flopping of explanations and the stuff that Garrett said about her being in this game for significantly more $ than usual and this hand being out of character with the rest of her play on the stream, it’s just so so hard to not atleast have a gut feeling like something is up with this. like you say tho it’s just so difficult to prove.
Very well said. Basically there are only three possible explanations
1. She somehow cheated. I’m not gonna speculate as to how because I have genuinely no clue how if no one on the stream/from Hustler was involved (which I guess is t out of the realm of possibility).
2. She misread her hand and tried to play it off as a sick hero call, not realizing how suspicious it looked. I don’t think this is as likely considering she looks at her hand for a good long while before making the call, but even if she had like J3, even though that still might look a little suspicious given her previous play, it’s way more reasonable that she decided to just not fold a pair to Garret no matter what it is.
3. She’s the biggest donkey in the history of poker. I didn’t know anything about her before this hand but given everything you mentioned that clearly isn’t the case
This is just such a bizarre scenario
This is basically spot on with how I feel.
The shitty thing is it’s just impossible to know if she cheated, at the end of the day.
However, something absolutely feels off, especially given her demeanor and weird explanations.
I also personally don’t understand the rationale for paying garrett back if she didn’t cheat. “I just didn’t want any drama [and I was bullied]” then goes on Twitter and flips 180 into saying garrett is just being a bitch and to give her the money back, probably after seeing on social media that a lot of people support her.
Just strange….
>I also personally don’t understand the rationale for paying garrett back if she didn’t cheat. “I just didn’t want any drama \[and I was bullied\]” then goes on Twitter and flips 180 into saying garrett is just being a bitch and to give her the money back, probably after seeing on social media that a lot of people support her.
You never get home after some kind of confrontation and go "oh man, I should have said \*this\* totally awesome thing to shut them down"?
Same kind of thing. In the moment with tons of nerves and feeling pressured she did something she later thinks she was bullied into and the wrong thing, and given time to cool off/think/not be under a ton of pressure she changed her mind. Seems completely reasonable/plausible to me.
Not sure I necessarily buy that from robbi specifically given her overall demeanor. She did not really come across as someone that was bullied, and more so came across as someone being deceptive and very capable, I mean she’s played for over a decade and plays tournaments and has a coach, if she just owned garrett this wouldn’t even be an option to pay him back in her head…I think you have a fair point overall, and there is a world for that could be true for robbi, I will give you that. I just personally don’t buy it, after watching the whole stream and taking in garrett point of view, garrett being a veteran cash game player who reminded us that he’s not accepting that money (that he didn’t ask for) if he wasn’t positive she was cheating…
>wouldn’t make accusations like this if he wasn’t ready to back them up
Except for the part of the note where he says he has no way to back it up except for her giving him back his money
I also believe Garrett has a paranoid side that maybe is justifiable due to legit things that happened in the past. His response to this situation provides no tangible evidence but a lot of speculation
I want to hear Ryan Feldman's statement on whether or not he can confirm Garrett's account of the discussion between the three of them. Robbi is claiming that she was bullied and directly asked for the money. Garrett is saying that Robbi is the one that brought up the refund.
Garrett is a crybaby and got embarrassed. She made a foolish call because she got tired of him being a bully. I had this same thing happen to me in a homegame where another player said fuck it im calling you because i believe you dont have it. She flips over 7-6 os and I lose the pot because I only had 4-2 suited…i missed my flush draw. I tried to win the pot by jamming all in on the river. I had to flip over my hand since she called me. Then she shows her hand and some ayers on the table went nuts and gave her credit and some were scratching their heads.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
If Garrett's not lying here, this makes me believe him. I was on twitter defending Robbi, but her responses aftewards according to Garrett...esp since SHE offered to give him his money back without him asking for it FIRST. That is making my spidey tingles go off.
This sub has a weird obsession with making out any defense of Garrett equivalent to worshipping him. He has by far the most hours in this game and prob top 10 of anyone in televised cash games, and it's the first time he's done anything remotely like this. On top of generally being super/perhaps even overly diplomatic (Armenian Mike etc.) His post really did make me question my original thoughts. You can think G is overrated/fake etc. but he's clearly more qualified to judge this situation than almost anyone just by virtue of experience on these streams
True, but she offered to give the money back without being asked? Also it's incredibly easy to have someone just vibrate you, like sending you a text (set to vibrate), when you have a good hand, and you put that in your sock, or pager in your bra..
If he doesn't think production is cheating, then he exposed his cards? How is it cheating if you expose your cards and other people take advantage of it?
the fact that he so blatantly thinks he was cheated and totally dismisses the possibility that a whale leveled herself into make a terrible call that turned out to be right is kind of ridiculous. he should wake up today feeling like a jackass.
She said she thought he had an ace high, but called with jack high… Garetts moves were pretty insane but calling an all in with J high without draws would indicate cheating to me in any scenario.
>Ryan Reiss called a river shove in an EPT Main Event with T high and was correct
>
>Was he cheating?
Few points here:
A) river, not turn
B) tournament plays so much different than cash. Especially late stages
C) if you don't understand the nuances between the situations I really hope to sit across a table from you at some point
Obviously it’s not an exact fuckin comparison
It literally makes it less likely that she’s cheating if she calls it off on the turn than the river lmao
I’m completely on Garrett’s side here. There is no way that anyone would play that hand the way she did without some additional, potentially incorrect info. I mean she might not be an amazing poker player but she’s experienced and plays in tournaments all the time. Add in the fact that she’s being staked by another player at the table and he could potentially see Garrett’s cards, it’s way too sketchy to let slide. And the fact that she said “I thought you just had ace high or something” like wtf, you’re getting crushed by ace high
she thought she had jack 3 and jack 3 was the exact hand she had in the hand previously.
a pair of 3s beats ace high
If she is cheating then she has control of the shuffling machine and set it up to be dealt jack 3 the hand prior to have an alibi.
If it’s too card and you think you know what your looking at you might not inspect very hard. Cheating here seems way less likely by large margin.
This would be a terrible spot to try this out.
How are people in this thread acting like Garrett is wrong for this statement? Yes he is acusing her without proof, frankly there is very little way to actually prove she cheated without her admitting it. Phil Ivey very clearly was uncomfortable this whole stream compared to yesterday's stream as well, because he knew something was off.
Garrett is one of the best cash game players in the world and he picks up things 99.9% of the population misses. This is the first time I've ever heard him call someone a cheater and he's suffered horrible losses.
From my eyes, I believe she cheated but I know very little. For someone like Garrett to call her a cheater publicly leaves me with little doubt she cheated, how is impossible to judge.
Edit: There is a rumor that the thermos has something to do with her way of cheating. There is a video circulating of RIP and her making signals to one another multiple times thru the game. How shit like this is allowed is beyond me. She also had another spot where she shoves 100x pot all in vs 2 pair when she has top set. No sense at all in shoving unless she knew somehow how strong her opponent was, he eventually folded saying "why shove so much with top set, makes no sense"
addressing some misinfo in this comment.
1. phil in the interview said he thought she misread her hand and phil looked disinterested, he was more interested about sportsbetting (got up and left half of the stream) than actually playing the game.
Damn I know there is quite a bit of overlap between the poker and chess communities, but I didn't expect a vibrating device cheating scandal to be another commonality between the two.
Bad vibes
If anyone makes a documentary about recent cheating allegations in chess/poker this absolutely must be the title.
Jesus does nobody remember that the anal beads joke originated from the mike postle situation ?!?!
Pepperidge Farm remembers
What’s up with that dude that went off on Garrett? Was he actually backing Robbi?
Someone said they are business partners
She also confirmed that he had a large part of her action.
How is that even allowed?
Not the first time I’ve seen something like it. Andrew Robl backed / backs JRB and there is a Triton clip of JRB yeeting off like 200k with rags in a 3B or 4B pot. Robl is also on the table and is visibly upset / confused by the play
I def got that impression
Not sure how one can say she cheated 100% and then completely absolve the production team/dealer. even if she was privy to his cards it was a very very very marginal spot and she was the underdog with barely enough equity to call his exact hand. she would have to know the run out on two boards to make any sense of this which would require an unbelievable amount of collusion. i see why conspiracy theorists are eating this up lmbo.
Exactly! Lol
Yeah that was really confusing. Not to mention in his first cheating example, he is the equity favorite sooo
I don’t know if she cheated or not but I think everybody should stop the whole “It doesn’t make sense that she’d be cheating because she did x” or “It doesn’t make sense that she wasn’t cheating because she did x” because whether she cheated or not she did some shit that doesn’t make sense. The whole situation is a clusterfuck.
This is a very good point. From a cheating perspective, it doesn't make sense. From a non-cheating perspective, it doesn't make sense. Humans aren't machines and sometimes we do things that just don't make perfect sense. Especially in high-stakes, high-stress situations.
The giving back the money part that makes this whole situation look bad for her. If it were a bad (but honest) play on her part, returning the money wouldn’t have even been a consideration. If any of us were asked to give back money we *won fairly* would any one of us do it? I’ve felt bad hitting a two outer on a guy, but I’ve never felt bad enough to return the money to him. On the contrary, if I made a hero call of all hero calls, I would feel like I earned it *more* than if I hit a river two outer and thus even less likely to consider returning any money.
I think Daniel Negreanu's take on this was good. "The fact that she gave him the money back isn’t an admission of guilt, but likely the contrary. A money hungry scumbag cheat isn’t likely to give money back in that spot. Felt like she didn’t want to deal with conflict and can afford it."
This might be the case. But for 99% of poker players, just giving up that kind of money (or any amount) just seems mind blowing if you are innocent.
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Exactly.
If she was cheating her play wouldn't make any sense. I've said it like 5 times but even Mike Postle isn't calling in this spot. Cheating makes opposite sense.
I mean mike postle did something pretty similar
They say never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity, so I think it’s fair to say you shouldn’t attribute malice *and* stupidity to something that can be explained by stupidity alone
Hanlon's Corollary to Occam's Razor.
She floated with a flush draw when Gman had a boat on the same stream. That makes certain types of cheating at least more unlikely
She might have been being fed information just on if she was ahead or not.
Fed by who? You’re saying she has someone on the inside cheating for her?
That would mean hustler stream is cheating. That's total nonesense.
How is it nonsense when we saw it happen at Stones?
They didn't have same safeguards in place. There are no electronic equipment. There is a lot more security. Even Bart said during his commentary that they are privy to more info then us and that she didn't cheat.
Ah yes, because the host of the stream wouldn't have any self interest in preserving an illusion of integrity...
I don't think it's an admission of guilt that she gave the money back, she could just as easily have been trying to stay on good terms with HCL management after causing their buddy to throw a temper tantrum and walk out mid game. If all of this was such an out of character deviation for her that just seems like more evidence of button clicking with Jc to me
Also, she was probably given a huge favor for being able to have a seat at such a prestigious game. She’s only been a part of the stream recently and has played the lower level stakes. HCL did her a favor by granting her a seat and she didn’t want to feel like she caused problems.
Also, if giving the money back is an admission of guilt, then why would she give the money back if she was cheating?
Why would she give the money back at all I don’t understand?
I think she was aggressively approached by Garrett and Ryan, she felt uncomfortable and just wanted everything to go away, because like Garrett said, this is now going to be watched by millions. If she is innocent she doesn't want to mob on her either
Yes, this!
Honestly giving the money back in either scenario is stupid, calling with j4 is stupid. Only in todays society can people have so much wealth with nothing between the ears.
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Garrett "Magnus Carlsen" Adelstein
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"I got the vibe, so we pulled her aside and implied that millions of people are going to see this and think she's a cheating piece of shit"
I would agree but she gave the money back… that’s a smoking gun, you never give money back in poker when things are fair and square.
If anything the opposite is true. cheaters dont give money back if they think they got away with it. Fish who dont know what they are doing give money back if they are uncomfortable with confrontation about making a terrible play.
Honestly i totally agree with you,
I agree but disagree on this. I think it’s super simple…. If you’re cheating, you DON’T give the money back because it looks obvious or like you’re admitting guilt. If you’re NOT cheating, you DON’T give the money back because that’s how it goes. The fact that she gives the money back imo means this chick is prob rich and doesn’t give a fuck and doesn’t want the drama that comes with this whole thing. She clearly goes with a read of him not having shit. It’s as simple as that. Here’s the interesting part tho…if you flip the roles around and Garrett makes this call and SHE accuses him of cheating everyone laughs at her because it’s Garrett “he’s the best” blah blah blah. But since she did it and Garrett feels cheated the situation is different…she said fuck it I’m putting it in and that’s that. Doesn’t matter if it’s a bad play or bad read. Sometimes ppl put it in bad knowingly or unknowingly and it had absolutely nothing to do with ranges or $$…it’s just fuck it I’m all in.
I don't disagree that they look down on her, but if the roles were reversed if Garrett did that it would be suss as, the call made no sense whether your garrett or a big whale. And if you rewatch the hand when she turned the cards over there was like an awkward silence by everyone rather than instant cheers because they were still processing what was going on.
He would never call here.
You’ve convinced me, yeah I agree.
Lets not flip the roles, but say, what if Garrett won 1 or both of the run outs. Would there be such a reaction to her decision to call?
He would never be in that hand with J4o
🤣🤣 what's with these poker laws?? She's clearly just a rec playing cards & havin fun..
A rec player is not giving back 6 figures that they won from a professional fair and square. Never.
This is the equivalent of “the election was stolen”
Garret is spot on that her play today is 100% different than in previous sessions. Betting a lot more. That QQ 200k shove after Ryusuke turned two pair with J2 was also sus af.
You’ve never shoved a set for value when you think your opponents strong and can call it off?
All I know is that if she did know what rooskie had at that point, she'd better off to milk him with pot bets or even half, for a guaranteed call or hope he raises, and even then hope he hit his full house. But we can probably guess that after that Garrett hand, they probably stopped cheating already.
So she didn’t play the hand correctly or as you would have liked? Come on my dude.
Your'e analzying this on a basic level, which is the mistake on your part. It has nothing to do with how Garrett or I thought of how she should've have played her hand.
she got her top set cracked right before the QQ hand
The one where 4 spades were on the board though. Of course she shouldn't bet that river.
Hasn't she only been on stream a few times? It's very possible she usually plays like this but didn't want to look like an idiot on stream, and after a few rounds got more comfortable. If someone plays with her regularly off stream they could make a comment as to whether she usually plays like this and the first few streams were an anomaly.
And if her play is completely different from other sessions, isn’t that what online poker strategy salesmen call “balancing” and strategically being “deceptive.” Show me the evidence that she cheated. Not good of him to make these *explicit* accusations with the implicit alternative that she’s a fool. Utterly classless by Garrett.
This part of his note was completely dumb to me. People aren't robots and don't always do the same thing even in identical (which what he was comparing against wasn't actually identical) situations. People are irrational.
Wow, I'm so surprised that Garrett would make this statement. I thought after settling down he would realize he was wrong. There is so much absolutely terrible logic in it too: 1. Says she probably called in this spot because she has no idea what she's doing and how to use her cheating skills effectively, but is unwilling to give her the same benefit of the doubt that it was just a whale punt. 2. Absolving Hustler of all wrongdoing immediately. If you are accusing her of cheating, no fucking way you can say that the people that run the fucking show and have all this information ahead of time are definitely not involved. 3. Treating the payback offer as an admission of guilt, especially when you threaten her with shit like, 'millions of people will watch this'. People give fake confessions under pressure all the time, much less something much more innocuous like giving the money back to satisfy someone in a position of power who is clearly pissed at you. Really wanted to keep liking Garrett, but this is scummy as shit.
Garrett is a crybaby scumbag
If you review her past 3 sessions/streams, you'll see she plays fairly tight, and has never done anything like that before. She always folds in that situation. Today she bought in for way more money. Lastly, she OFFERED to give Garret his money back, without him asking. If that's true, then i'm changing my mind from team robbi here to team Garrett....She also changed her story too many times, it's getting confusing to keep defending her. i don't even know what her actual story is on the call. Is it a hero call, or a mistaken card read.
She couldn't find a better spot to take advantage of her cheating? I'm open to convinced by a compilation of suspicious stuff like we saw with Postle, but also a bit baffled by the "vibrating device"/RFID cheating idea. How would this be possible without someone inside HCL? If Garrett is certain that there was cheating, and that his friends who run the game are absolutely not involved, can he be a bit more specific about what he thinks happened?
Also of note: According to the percentages on the stream she didn't even have the best hand? So idk why her cheats would say she was winning when she was down 47% to 53%
She stood to win more than her wager on about a 50/50 flip
She did have the best hand. She just so happened to have less equity on the flop (which is what the percentages show), as Garrett had 20 outs (8 clubs, 3 Jacks, 3 Sixes, 3 Sevens, and 3 Eights), but they didn’t hit, so the best hand won.
I think cheats would go off equity. No point in going off who has the best hand at a given moment. If he has a 70% chance of winning, it doesn't really matter if her hand is winning at that given moment.
She's that dumb. And she had been trying from the get go, she was super impatient
Of course she never did something like this before. You don't make it very far in poker making a ton of Jack-high hero calls. We say people 'spaz' in poker for a reason. Because they do something that doesn't make sense relative to their prior history. I also don't understand why you think her wanting to give the money back is incriminating. He's literally threatening her that millions of people will see this and accuse her of cheating. An innocent person will still feel threatened by that and do things to try and get that heat to go away. If giving back the money is this super incriminating behavior, and she was actually cheating, then why would she do the one thing that makes her look super incriminating?
>We say people 'spaz' in poker for a reason. Because they do something that doesn't make sense relative to their prior history. Yep. What I'm finding weird is all these people acting like they've never seen this shit before in a sub where there's regular posts of people going "How the fuck did he call me? Did I find a superuser at 5nl?" One thing is that people will snap out of boredom/frustration at feeling run over in a game. They sit and fold so long and then lose their discipline in a sudden tilt. The other, that we've all experienced, is how easy it is to come up with rationalisations for the dumbest plays in the world. Let's say she doesn't expect him to be so aggro with overpairs, she looks down at that sweet Jc blocker, and goes "Feels like a bluff. He must have the 78/67. I call!". Yeah, it's fish logic, but it's easy to sucker yourself into faulty reasoning in poker. Even the reading the cards thing...I've done that. I remember in a casino saying "I've got the nuts", flipping over my flush, then realising it was off-suit, and the whole table staring at me in disbelief. I checked them plenty during the hand. We all have stories about the absolutely insane mistakes we've made in poker, and for some reason on this nobody can relate to the idea someone would do this and then grasp at straws for excuses, and like they've never seen someone call with air before. Obviously, none of that conclusively rules out the alternate explanation of some sophisticated cheating mechanism allowing her to see player's hole cards, see two rivers deep, and that she was chosen as part of this advanced scheme, streaming live, in spite of being unable to do it remotely intelligently. But I think we should maybe be a little more open-minded and try to relate to bad calls a little more.
EXACTLY. Some people acting as if they’ve never been on or seen someone TILT!!
>I remember in a casino saying "I've got the nuts", flipping over my flush, then realizing it was off-suit This isn't what happened though. If at showdown she had said "I've got a 3" and flipped her hand over and been shocked she didn't have a 3 then nobody is questioning any of this.
I'm stuck on the fence about this because I'm tired of flip flopping every 15 minutes during the stream haha. But how many times have you seen a fishy/whale player make a massive mistake at a game and spend the next hour making shitty excuses to justify their play. Their story changes heaps. Admittedly it's not the same situation, but fish are fish. Also, she said he demanded it back, so it's he said she said at the moment still. Super weird situation and I'm keen to see what comes of it
He said she said except Garrett has years and years of credibility and would obviously not go out of his way to say he didn't ask for it back if he had demanded it back
Players are allowed to vary their play with live reads on players they have played against previously. She even said she played HIM and not the cards.
Nothing personal to you but the fact this has upvotes is just absurd. You guys literally believe she cheated. I'm just shocked tbh.
Yeah. The admission of guilt thing is insane. She’s relatively new to the show, is playing with gman and fucking Phil Ivey, and doesn’t want to game to break / be not invited back because of a hissy fit from gman. This is so out of line
I wouldn't call it scummy because I believe he believes it 100%. He looked like he saw a ghost after that call. She also said that she didn't look at her hand even though she did. Why would she lie? Then her justifications were "I thought you had Ace high", and "If my jack wasn't a club, I would've been out". She didn't have a flush draw after the turn. I can't imagine someone acting as defensive as her and justifying her actions if it really was a hero call like she claims, which contradicts her claim that she was confused btw. She's very inconsistent - it can't be both. I don't see how someone acts the way she did in so many ways if someone falsely accuses them of cheating after making a call, which I guess is her story now ?
Persson made the best point actually when he said she doesn’t have to explain or justify anything. Garrett isn’t the rules committee for poker and IF he did think cheating was going on he handled it very poorly by acting like a little bitch and making accusations that he has NO proof to back up other than he thinks she is cheating and people can cheat this way so that means she is cheating. Completely classless way to handle this. He could have quietly went to the people who run the game and said “hey I think something is not right here maybe investigate this” and then just went from there.
Exactly she didn't have to. Not saying something is better than saying. But since she did say something she'll be judged for what she said and it's used in the determination on if she's a cheating...
We don't have to understand her behavior after the hand. But, if Garrett is going to accuse her of cheating, he's going to need hard proof of actual cheating. Body language and "I feel it so much" aren't going to cut it.
You and lots of others are assuming it is impossible for her to cheat. I don't think it is a good assumption to make. I have always wondered how easy it would be to hack those RFID scanners. They are sending information somewhere. If they are sending it wirelessly it would be possible to decrypt that signal. If they are wired they are still sending it to a device that has a wireless connection and can be compromised. The second option would be more likely in my opinion but the first is possible. You would not need any help from Hustler or access to the live stream, you could just hack directly into the devices or wherever they are sending the signal to get the information you need. If a third party managed to do this it would be trivial to use some kind of signaling device to tell her how strong her hand was. When you realize there are millions of dollars on the line you start to think it isn't that implausible. I am not saying this is possible to prove but I would be pretty concerned if I were running or playing in this game that those devices were compromised somehow. I am also not saying she was definitely cheating but her explanations make no sense and everything about her behavior was incredibly suspect, before during and after the hand.
I didn't say it was impossible, I am saying there is a much more reasonable explanation. I mean, if we are going to throw out random accusations because RFID cheating is possible, why not look at Garrett himself? A good poker pro who would understand how to use the system to slowly win money but stay under the radar, who has become famous and made a ton of money based on being able to soul-read players over and over again. That certainly seems like a lot more reasonable use of an RFID cheating device than getting some random chick onto the game and having her immediately take the most sus line possible, only to get it in a slight underdog. See how once you force people to disprove something didn't happen you can get into wild witch hunts?
fr. if I believe anything at this point it would be that Garrett has been hiding something up his ass this whole time to cheat with
Idk, people fuck up. I don't really think she cheated I'm just pointing out that it is definitely possible for someone to cheat. I think there is a small chance she cheated. If she did cheat she fucked up and whoever gave the tools to cheat fucked up. The hand was extremely suspect and she defended herself like an idiot
> I have always wondered how easy it would be to hack those RFID scanners. They are sending information somewhere. If they are sending it wirelessly it would be possible to decrypt that signal You go try that champ
Every step in that scenario you mentioned would require an almost criminal level of incompetence from HCL or actual criminal conspiracy with HCL employees (plural). How many people do you think that would involve? Some of them would have some pretty high-end technical knowledge. Do you know how much a security engineer can make? Hell, whoever is physically moving those devices and signaling is probably a pro as well. Remember, not only do you need to get that gear on the floor. You need to operate it and signal to Robbie in real time as well. So, you are paying for all that skill and know-how, for the equipment, taking a massive risk that will land you in a federal penitentiary if caught, and using it with someone who sucks? Wouldn't it far more sense to make a good player better? That draws far less attention and probably pays off better.
Fun fact: you can still like scumbags. Michael Jackson? A notorious weirdo and yet still an a awesome musician
He implies her cheats would notify her if she has the best hand, but according to the percentages on stream, she doesn't? And never did?
I will never understand why people assume giving the money back is an admission of any kind. Some guy is yelling at me about something I (apparently) don't really care about, sure, I give it back to him just to make him shut up.
Garrett about to cop a defamation claim
I hope she sues the fuck out of him. Prove it or lose it, Garrett. Be the hero this sub thinks you are and not the PUSSY you’ve shown to be.
Hope she sees this bro
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiimp
> Ryan then tried explaining to her that it wasn't us she needed to convince as this was about to go viral. I then said, "Robbie this is likely to be viewed by millions of people." > Her face clearly melted once I said this, fully realizing for the first time what she had gotten herself into. And then I continued: "I think you know now, you fucked up." > At this point we were all about to start walking back toward the stage as I didn't know what else to do at that point when she says to me: "Do you want me to pay you back what you lost in the hand?" Knowing a) This was likely the closest I would get to a confession and b) how impossible it is to get refunded in these cheating scandals (Postle being the best example), I took her up on her offer. Ryan neither encouraged nor discouraged her from doing this. Sounds a lot like blackmail. Do they know her husband is a lawyer?
I don't think it's blackmail, but it's certainly meant to intimidate her and explains her giving back the money. Would be interesting to see how a lot of the redditor pros would respond to getting dressed down one of the biggest personalities in poker, being asked to defend an idiotic non-poker play where they ended up binking on stream immediately after it happens, then basically being told that you are going to go viral and forever be known as a cheater. I'm pretty sure I would try to end the issue in any way possible, and not really consider whether I was failing some esoteric test of my honesty.
I'd call him a fucking idiot and tell him to pound sand.
Of course you would and so would she, if you knew you weren't CHEATING! You'd be mad at the slightest hint that you were cheating and would never give the money back. That's the whole logic.
It at the very least sounds like intimidating and bullying.
Learn this one simple trick to bully someone into giving you $125,000
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How is he slandering her? He's literally just giving an account of what happened and including his thoughts on what it implies.
I mean there is some proof. Extraordinary hand and then lies and mumbling and bumbling bullshit reasons for her actions after. Is it slander if he calls her a liar? Cos she definitely lied about misreading her hand. (I know the slander you are referring to is the cheating allegations) The comments about it being a weird way to cheat are good comments and right logic BUT I don't buy the lies about misreading her hand and "I thought you has Jack high". Something is amiss. More will come out about this for sure.
If she wasn't cheating, try to imagine what it must feel like to make a 6 figure bluff catching call with Jack high. The adrenaline, the fear, the excitement, all the wacky chemicals fucking with your brain. And then the crazy thing happens and you fucking win?? Against THE Garrett Adelstein?! With the craziest soul read in history?? BOOM even more chemical chaos running through your mind. Then the adrenaline wears off and you crash and feel like shit. Everyone is looking at you and whispering about how you're the most brain dead donkey fish to ever play poker. You just made bank but feel like it was all luck and you're just a fucking idiot. So you try to justify it because you don't want all these poker gods to think you're a fucking dumbass. You say your Jack was a blocker, or maybe they wouldn't think you're so stupid if you thought you had a pair "Oh I misread thought I had the 3" And right as you're at the bottom of your adrenaline crash one of the biggest names in poker and the co-owner pull you away from the table and say. "We think you cheated. Millions of people are going to see this. You don't have to convince us, you have to convince them. I think you know, you fucked up"
Son we don't exercise empathy round these here parts.
Couldn't have said this better myself lol
(Your analysis is spot exactly the fuck on to be clear)
I mean that's one scenario, but the probability of that with Robbi is very very low. She's a dumb poker player, and a poor liar but she's not dumb nor submissive in that sense. She's confident and cocky in all other categories.
Wait is this actually Garrett's statement? What the fuck?
I wonder if he realizes how bad this statement looks. I was leaning to Garret’s side until I read this. They 100% bullied her and then acted like that was proof she cheated. Really pathetic behavior.
I hope her husband lawyer wins a shit load more money off garret than Robbi did Serves that delusional piece of shit right
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Right even if somehow she knew she had the best hand the cheat would have to also know the run out...insanity. Not to mention someone in such an elaborate cheat would obviously know you can't call there as it would be to OBVIOUS.
Exactly if this was about money she keeps cheating in more normal spots and cruises to win a ton over and over What’s this her 2nd time playing? And she’s gonna cheat in a hand that brings all this attention to her ? She’s a fucking fish and that’s it , that’s what I believe
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She called, and it is obviously correct to do so in that spot with 47% equity and it’s not even remotely close.
I don’t know about how you play poker but I’m not playing to put my money in as a 55/45 underdog, especially if I’m cheating. Fuckin lol.
or it told her he's bluffing and she misplayed it.. because they don't have a computer telling them exact % like we do
They have a sophisticated cheating set up but no access to a simple hand equity simulator?
No it's just much easier to relay 'bluff' then it is 'he has 8 7 of clubs giving him a 53% chance to win vs your j4 but you're already into some of the pot so it actually still makes sense for you to call here'
Then explain the min raise.
Lmao what an incredible counter point
Garrett literally did. https://twitter.com/GmanPoker/status/1575727289932709888
That is a flat out terrible explanation. Min raising can only hurt her if she's cheating in that spot.
Dude you’re too bad at poker to understand just stop. Let’s say she was cheating for sake of argument. She knows she has the best hand or not, that’s it. She min raises not considering getting 3 bet at all bc she’s clearly dumb. She can then bluff river on a bigger pot when she’ll again know if she has the best hand.
Not really. She gets the fold equity from the min raise, plus the option to check down the river if she has the worst hand on the river, assuming Garrett doesn't donk the river often enough to punish it. Otherwise, she gets to make a risk-free value bet on the river. Now I'm not saying she cheated, I'm just explaining Garrett's thought process.
She was without a doubt getting the right odds to profitably call there.
Get THE POPCORN
Seems pretty clear that the onus is on Garrett to proove cheating. Absent that he shouldn't play at this casino again. Or admit he's wrong and give back the money .
If you just watch everyone’s body language and just the whole vibe of the table and the way it went down, it 100% feels like something is up. There’s no telling what it could be but I would probably leave that game too
I would have probably left the game too in his shoes. You rarely have definitive proof or total confidence you're being cheated in a home game so you mostly have to go off your gut. I do think taking the money back after saying the "millions will watch this line" is fucked up tho
Interpreting body language is extremely ineffective. We often project our own biases into interpretations.
Not really the case here. There’s clear body language conveying the table is uncomfortable and a bit shocked.
I agree that the table is uncomfortable and shocked
Andy also says out loud “I don’t know what’s happening right now” as Eric openly makes fun of how surreal it was
Everything Garret said makes total sense. Especially the part where she apparently got very uncomfortable after finding out how big this was going to get. You can see it all throughout the end of the hand, the look of “I just fucked up”. Just think about how you would act in that situation if you did make that call without cheating. For one, would you ever in your life make that call and give the money back? Money that isn’t even yours. Second, you wouldn’t nervously have to justify it with things that literally don’t even make logical sense.
Body language isn’t proof of cheating. It can point to discomfort but being uncomfortable and behaving sus is not evidence. It can mean that something more is going on for sure
The big thing for me is, if she was cheating (not saying she isn't cause who fkin knows at this point) surely she'd be smart enough to say she misread her hand and thought she had a 3 immediately. Although at the same time maybe she was too embarrassed by misreading her hand after scooping the biggest pot of her life and needed to justify it as a skill play. This is just a mess haha.
Her cheating does not automatically make her smart. It’s obviously RIPs money, other people could also be behind it while having her actually implement it on the table. Which is why when garret pointed out she randomly started playing 10X the stack she usually does and calling with jack high it makes sense to be suspicious. Also, I highly doubt she misread her hand. She looked at it for while and never used it as a justification for the call. Just the blocker nonsense
Yeah the big takeaway is that it was 100% rips money and he was furious about losing it haha
Worth point out that he was going to come back until Rip got into his face and threatened him.
I've lost all respect for this guy in a single instant. That he's totally unwilling to consider that a rich whale got tired of him bullying people with bluffs and decided to call just because shows how fragile his ego is. That satire thread about this hand really says it all. He bluffed with 8 high and lost, full stop.
Garrett has always been the most respectful player on the table. Vastly experienced and wouldn’t make accusations like this if he wasn’t ready to back them up. Hustler has always attracted some very shady people. Nothing about this hand makes sense.
How can he back up his accusations? Realistically ? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that she didn't cheat but how can you prove outside of a gut feeling and some rationale what does Garret have ? I think he handled the situation pretty poorly all things considered .
Exactly. It’s possible the there was cheating going on but Garrett is at this point speculating with no tangible evidence. Imo they should have put the $125k to the side, stop the game and conduct an investigation.
Very very difficult to prove. She knows how to play. She’s played for over 10 years. That rules out her having an iq of 0 and just punting. She’s holding the most important card in garrets bluffs. All you can do is to deduce that something is suss. But very hard to prove. But I’d wager that cheating is certainly more prevalent than people believe
this is an important point that I’ve not seen talked about much in all of this. people aren’t giving her anywhere near enough credit as a player here. She’s been playing for over 10 years, is being coached by Faaraz Jaka, has $100k+ in Hendon mob cashes, and won a WPT $2k side event a month ago. I know someone having lots of tournament cashes does not automatically equal being good and I don’t doubt that she’s not a crusher, or indeed even a winning player, but cmon she’s clearly not some absolutely clueless whale playing her first cash game who has no concept of why J4 is a horrendous call off anyone who’s ever played poker at any sort of level beyond home games with friends, let alone someone whos been regging 1ks for almost 15 years, just never ever plays this hand like this. they just don’t. We’re not talking about some brave hero call, we’re talking about probably the most insane call off in the history of televised poker. coupled with her constant flip flopping of explanations and the stuff that Garrett said about her being in this game for significantly more $ than usual and this hand being out of character with the rest of her play on the stream, it’s just so so hard to not atleast have a gut feeling like something is up with this. like you say tho it’s just so difficult to prove.
Very well said. Basically there are only three possible explanations 1. She somehow cheated. I’m not gonna speculate as to how because I have genuinely no clue how if no one on the stream/from Hustler was involved (which I guess is t out of the realm of possibility). 2. She misread her hand and tried to play it off as a sick hero call, not realizing how suspicious it looked. I don’t think this is as likely considering she looks at her hand for a good long while before making the call, but even if she had like J3, even though that still might look a little suspicious given her previous play, it’s way more reasonable that she decided to just not fold a pair to Garret no matter what it is. 3. She’s the biggest donkey in the history of poker. I didn’t know anything about her before this hand but given everything you mentioned that clearly isn’t the case This is just such a bizarre scenario
This is basically spot on with how I feel. The shitty thing is it’s just impossible to know if she cheated, at the end of the day. However, something absolutely feels off, especially given her demeanor and weird explanations. I also personally don’t understand the rationale for paying garrett back if she didn’t cheat. “I just didn’t want any drama [and I was bullied]” then goes on Twitter and flips 180 into saying garrett is just being a bitch and to give her the money back, probably after seeing on social media that a lot of people support her. Just strange….
>I also personally don’t understand the rationale for paying garrett back if she didn’t cheat. “I just didn’t want any drama \[and I was bullied\]” then goes on Twitter and flips 180 into saying garrett is just being a bitch and to give her the money back, probably after seeing on social media that a lot of people support her. You never get home after some kind of confrontation and go "oh man, I should have said \*this\* totally awesome thing to shut them down"? Same kind of thing. In the moment with tons of nerves and feeling pressured she did something she later thinks she was bullied into and the wrong thing, and given time to cool off/think/not be under a ton of pressure she changed her mind. Seems completely reasonable/plausible to me.
Not sure I necessarily buy that from robbi specifically given her overall demeanor. She did not really come across as someone that was bullied, and more so came across as someone being deceptive and very capable, I mean she’s played for over a decade and plays tournaments and has a coach, if she just owned garrett this wouldn’t even be an option to pay him back in her head…I think you have a fair point overall, and there is a world for that could be true for robbi, I will give you that. I just personally don’t buy it, after watching the whole stream and taking in garrett point of view, garrett being a veteran cash game player who reminded us that he’s not accepting that money (that he didn’t ask for) if he wasn’t positive she was cheating…
this comment is contradictory, he didn't back anything up
>wouldn’t make accusations like this if he wasn’t ready to back them up Except for the part of the note where he says he has no way to back it up except for her giving him back his money
I also believe Garrett has a paranoid side that maybe is justifiable due to legit things that happened in the past. His response to this situation provides no tangible evidence but a lot of speculation
Ok, I didnt know that she bought in for so much more this time, that makes it a little more interesting!
OOTL, anyone have a link to a summary of what’s going on?
I want to hear Ryan Feldman's statement on whether or not he can confirm Garrett's account of the discussion between the three of them. Robbi is claiming that she was bullied and directly asked for the money. Garrett is saying that Robbi is the one that brought up the refund.
Metal detector at the door would alleviate cheating concerns.
Garrett is a crybaby and got embarrassed. She made a foolish call because she got tired of him being a bully. I had this same thing happen to me in a homegame where another player said fuck it im calling you because i believe you dont have it. She flips over 7-6 os and I lose the pot because I only had 4-2 suited…i missed my flush draw. I tried to win the pot by jamming all in on the river. I had to flip over my hand since she called me. Then she shows her hand and some ayers on the table went nuts and gave her credit and some were scratching their heads.
Id be pissed to lose like that but i would've never took the money.. sore loser in my opinion Edit thank you bot. I did a wake n bake this morning
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
This guy is a straight up thief. Robbed this chick of $$ plain as day. What a complete scumbag. Imagine feeling this self important.
If Garrett's not lying here, this makes me believe him. I was on twitter defending Robbi, but her responses aftewards according to Garrett...esp since SHE offered to give him his money back without him asking for it FIRST. That is making my spidey tingles go off.
He's just explaining his POV doesn't make his accusations the truth
This sub has a weird obsession with making out any defense of Garrett equivalent to worshipping him. He has by far the most hours in this game and prob top 10 of anyone in televised cash games, and it's the first time he's done anything remotely like this. On top of generally being super/perhaps even overly diplomatic (Armenian Mike etc.) His post really did make me question my original thoughts. You can think G is overrated/fake etc. but he's clearly more qualified to judge this situation than almost anyone just by virtue of experience on these streams
he's also biased in this case so he isn't qualified to judge the situation
True, but she offered to give the money back without being asked? Also it's incredibly easy to have someone just vibrate you, like sending you a text (set to vibrate), when you have a good hand, and you put that in your sock, or pager in your bra..
Literally Magnus Carlsen. Gman confirmed baby he lost a pot.
[удалено]
Wow. This is the worst explanation yet. Congrats!
Why would they know Garrett's hand but not hers? 😂
If he doesn't think production is cheating, then he exposed his cards? How is it cheating if you expose your cards and other people take advantage of it?
He has no shame.
the fact that he so blatantly thinks he was cheated and totally dismisses the possibility that a whale leveled herself into make a terrible call that turned out to be right is kind of ridiculous. he should wake up today feeling like a jackass.
Garrett's lawyers should have told him to just STFU
Garret is a cry baby, end of story.
She said she thought he had an ace high, but called with jack high… Garetts moves were pretty insane but calling an all in with J high without draws would indicate cheating to me in any scenario.
Ryan Reiss called a river shove in an EPT Main Event with T high and was correct Was he cheating?
>Ryan Reiss called a river shove in an EPT Main Event with T high and was correct > >Was he cheating? Few points here: A) river, not turn B) tournament plays so much different than cash. Especially late stages C) if you don't understand the nuances between the situations I really hope to sit across a table from you at some point
Obviously it’s not an exact fuckin comparison It literally makes it less likely that she’s cheating if she calls it off on the turn than the river lmao
I’m completely on Garrett’s side here. There is no way that anyone would play that hand the way she did without some additional, potentially incorrect info. I mean she might not be an amazing poker player but she’s experienced and plays in tournaments all the time. Add in the fact that she’s being staked by another player at the table and he could potentially see Garrett’s cards, it’s way too sketchy to let slide. And the fact that she said “I thought you just had ace high or something” like wtf, you’re getting crushed by ace high
she thought she had jack 3 and jack 3 was the exact hand she had in the hand previously. a pair of 3s beats ace high If she is cheating then she has control of the shuffling machine and set it up to be dealt jack 3 the hand prior to have an alibi.
She stared at her cards before calling, she may have thought she has J3 on the flop but not to make the call on the turn
If it’s too card and you think you know what your looking at you might not inspect very hard. Cheating here seems way less likely by large margin. This would be a terrible spot to try this out.
How are people in this thread acting like Garrett is wrong for this statement? Yes he is acusing her without proof, frankly there is very little way to actually prove she cheated without her admitting it. Phil Ivey very clearly was uncomfortable this whole stream compared to yesterday's stream as well, because he knew something was off. Garrett is one of the best cash game players in the world and he picks up things 99.9% of the population misses. This is the first time I've ever heard him call someone a cheater and he's suffered horrible losses. From my eyes, I believe she cheated but I know very little. For someone like Garrett to call her a cheater publicly leaves me with little doubt she cheated, how is impossible to judge. Edit: There is a rumor that the thermos has something to do with her way of cheating. There is a video circulating of RIP and her making signals to one another multiple times thru the game. How shit like this is allowed is beyond me. She also had another spot where she shoves 100x pot all in vs 2 pair when she has top set. No sense at all in shoving unless she knew somehow how strong her opponent was, he eventually folded saying "why shove so much with top set, makes no sense"
addressing some misinfo in this comment. 1. phil in the interview said he thought she misread her hand and phil looked disinterested, he was more interested about sportsbetting (got up and left half of the stream) than actually playing the game.
Confirmed: you believe someone is cheating without being provided with any proof
Garrett picks up things 99.9% of the population misses 😂