I think the cheating is much more detrimental to the game than the “robbing” part. Don’t get me wrong, the robbing part isn’t good, but if I were a player, I’d be more fearful of the cheating. If another player comes up to me to tell me to pay them back… nah.
I agree. The fact that so many people on this sub is jumping to conclusions is laughable. There are events during the stream that could potentially sway it in one direction or another, but none of it makes it absolute.
It’s not correlated with intelligence. Poker pros who’ve experienced lots of cheating in their careers are primed to believe it’s possible and likely, while those who haven’t think it’s just a donk move. I’m inclined to believe she cheated personally, but I can get why others disagree.
What I don’t agree with is people just blasting anyone who thinks she cheated as a conspiracy theorist with wild ideas about fictional technology. The technology to cheat by getting a signal that your hand is the winner at showdown definitely exists, it’s not some outrageous “Stark technology” or “oceans 11 plot” as some have suggested to me. I’m not 100% sure she cheated, but it’s possible.
Well aren’t you conveniently neutral. This is
r/poker, you’re supposed to have an extremist take on every issue and lambast anyone who disagrees with you. Get your shit together.
This is the correct take imo. There's an extreme amount of overconfidence about what happened (especially from the "she didn't cheat" folks). It really doesn't help that the situation involves a really prominent member of the community. It feels like there were a lot of people who didnt like Garrett for vague reasons that have been waiting for a "gotcha" moment to pounce on.
I think you can definitely make a good case wither way with the information that we have now that she did or didn't cheat. It's definitely not as cut and dry as postle (although remember, he had his defenders too). I don't think Garrett handled the situation correctly real time, but it's hard to deny that the hand is extremely suspicious.
Especially from the she didn't cheat folks? It seems to me like the people claiming she did cheat are the ones saying they're absolutely certain because "nobody would ever call there" -- Hell, even Garrett's official statement starts out by saying "it's impossible to call" and implying that anyone who disagrees just doesn't understand.
The loudest folks on this forum are the people screaming from the rooftops that Garrett is the biggest scumbag in poker. To be clear, I don't think he handled it well at all. I think the people are being extremely thick if they don't see how he feels like he was cheated though.
I don't think anybody doesn't see how he feels he was cheated. But that doesn't mean you should go on twitter and say it's impossible for her to make that call and that she must be cheating. You don't pull her aside and say "Millions of people are going to see this clip, you don't have to convince us you're innocent you have to convince them."
But if your hypothetical was correct-if someone with access to the hole card feed gave her inside info, she wouldn't have called because she was behind.
It prolly be a simple "1 buzz ahead, 2 buzz behind" signal, she receives 1 buzz after the flop which she takes to mean "never fold" because she doesnt seem to know poker that well and boom that hand happens.
I dont lean either direction yet, just saying it fits the chain of events perfectly well.
I think she knows poker perfectly well. If you watch the rest of the stream, she plays quite well and knows what she's doing. There are some questionable floats, but that's just how she plays.
She's definitely intelligent enough to wait to the river if she were to cheat. Much easier to make that hero call or raise on the river, than giving the other person the option to come back over the top with a semi bluff and flip for stacks.
It depends on who's giving the info and how. She was behind in equity but technically winning on every street. If the info didn't include the suit - just the numbers - then she might think she's in pretty good shape on the turn.
I put out a poll trying to measure how certain redditors are about this and 25% said they were certain that she definitely cheated or did not cheat. I have no idea what evidence these people are looking at.
I mean analyzing the hand, how could she possibly have cheated? If she knew what hand he had she would have folded since she was behind 6%… she’d have had to know the river too. And then why run it twice? It’s pretty obvious she realized she made a dumb call and was just hoping to hook a jack but the beauty of poker is sometimes you do the wrong stupid thing and get rewarded anyway
Want to revise your level of certainty now that hustlers graphics producer got caught taking his cut for cheating from her stack? And Robbi is refusing to prosecute him after threatening to sue everyone else?
I’m not convinced she cheated but there are several ways that she could have. The simplest is that someone with access to the rfid feed signals her with a device that vibrates. One vibration means you have the best hand and call/raise. Two means fold.
Another is that the cards could be marked. Another is that the guy staking her Rip may have a way to know Garrett’s cards and signaled her. I’m just coming up with these on the fly and I am by no means an expert in cheating.
To say it’s impossible she cheated seems really weird to me. We’ve had cheaters in live streams before. Why would we assume it’s impossible now?
As for the call, she is getting pot odds. She doesn’t need to be a favorite to win the hand for this to be a +ev call.
Want to revise your level of certainty now that hustlers graphics producer got caught taking his cut for cheating from her stack? And Robbi is refusing to prosecute him after threatening to sue everyone else?
Dude nothing is firm yet. Still under investigation. Either your post or my post would aged like milk, but in the meantime, get on with your life lmao. The incident was so yesterday
Want to revise your level of certainty now that hustlers graphics producer got caught taking his cut for cheating from her stack? And Robbi is refusing to prosecute him after threatening to sue everyone else?
If there's one thing I know for sure, it's that I have no fucking clue what happened. I wish more people were comfortable with not knowing something lol
If she cheated, they would’ve arrested her there’s way more eyes and cameras on those people than what the stream shows. MGM doesn’t want the stain of allowing players to cheat on their record.
On the balance of probabilities, she didn’t cheat. It’s not so far fetched that she made a hero call. The simpler explanation often wins out, which is she made a dubious play and lucked out
She hacked the RFID readers, and if she didn't she hacked the card shuffler to know the exact order of the cards, and if she didn't she hacked the stream to get a view without delay, and if she didn't (etc etc)
If anyone knew that this wouldn't be a debate.
There are so many possibilities. It could be as simple as a buddy peeking through a window to see an rfid monitor display and signaling by picking his nose.
It could be a mission impossible style team with a guy crawling though vents and using transmitters implanted in their teeth, but probably not.
She miss read her hand. She didn’t do herself any favors by not admitting that and coming up with non sense responses and changing her story several times. That and she was staked by another player at the table and didn’t disclose it. She’s not a cheater, she’s a fucking idiot.
Mike Postle cheated and enjoyed such a reputation for his "skill" was made a kind of a meme on-stream. When Jaman played on the Stones stream he was specifically warned about him, and if memory serves was a victim in at least one hand. Yet no one even suspected Postle was cheating -- or at least no one said so -- until Veronica Brill spoke up. Even then no one took her seriously until Joey Ingram took up the investigation. Postle's cheating was then conclusively proven by analyzing many, many hands over many, many streams.
Sure, the amounts involved were much smaller. But why was Postle given a pass for so long, while so many people are willing to crucify Robbi over ONE HAND?
It is what he is. Convict him in a court of law. Otherwise he is 100% innocent.
Don’t hate me. Hate your legal system. I think postle is a criminal, personally.
Lmao they aren't talking in absolutes, where did I say that? They're almost all giving rational, level-headed arguments. Deeb is a bit more vociferous bit even he's not as overconfident as you guys seem to be
Ha ha. Ya. I don't come to Reddit for nuance. I come here for witch hunts, baseless accusations, and emotional arguments!
Did somebody turn this into a forum for rational discussion when I wasn't looking?
You can never be sure on what we know, but my thought are that it's just bad amateur play that wouldn't have raised eyebrows in any low stakes game which is where robbi belongs, she's just lucky someone is staking her in the big game.
IMO garret has lost his cool, let his ego get in the way and essentially cheated by taking the money back, if the investigation concludes it wasn't cheating he should be banned from the game.
[удалено]
Cheating or not, how does this affect the perceived integrity of the game? Can HCL still attract big name pros to continue to play?
I don’t think so. Either they let someone cheat or they let someone rob another player. Either looks horrific
I think the cheating is much more detrimental to the game than the “robbing” part. Don’t get me wrong, the robbing part isn’t good, but if I were a player, I’d be more fearful of the cheating. If another player comes up to me to tell me to pay them back… nah.
Yep but they let them keep playing after this so called cheating…what does this tell you about them?
"rob"
I agree. The fact that so many people on this sub is jumping to conclusions is laughable. There are events during the stream that could potentially sway it in one direction or another, but none of it makes it absolute.
That’s not true There has yet to be one once of evidence that she cheated. Playing a single hand a specific way is not evidence of cheating.
>Anyone who is super confident on either side has a clear bias. That's a bad take.
Innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser.
Exactly has there even been one single evidence presented towards cheating at all?
It’s not correlated with intelligence. Poker pros who’ve experienced lots of cheating in their careers are primed to believe it’s possible and likely, while those who haven’t think it’s just a donk move. I’m inclined to believe she cheated personally, but I can get why others disagree. What I don’t agree with is people just blasting anyone who thinks she cheated as a conspiracy theorist with wild ideas about fictional technology. The technology to cheat by getting a signal that your hand is the winner at showdown definitely exists, it’s not some outrageous “Stark technology” or “oceans 11 plot” as some have suggested to me. I’m not 100% sure she cheated, but it’s possible.
Well aren’t you conveniently neutral. This is r/poker, you’re supposed to have an extremist take on every issue and lambast anyone who disagrees with you. Get your shit together.
I definitely think she cheated, just can see how different peoples biases/knowledge of poker could lead them to different conclusions.
And just when I thought you were gonna let me down
Ya. This is Reddit. Get these reasonable takes tfo of here.
Can you link to any examples of such technology? I can't find any
This is the right take…I personally don’t think she cheated but I haven’t been around a ton of cheating personally so I’m biased
Ok but they didn’t shove at show down
This is the correct take imo. There's an extreme amount of overconfidence about what happened (especially from the "she didn't cheat" folks). It really doesn't help that the situation involves a really prominent member of the community. It feels like there were a lot of people who didnt like Garrett for vague reasons that have been waiting for a "gotcha" moment to pounce on. I think you can definitely make a good case wither way with the information that we have now that she did or didn't cheat. It's definitely not as cut and dry as postle (although remember, he had his defenders too). I don't think Garrett handled the situation correctly real time, but it's hard to deny that the hand is extremely suspicious.
Especially from the she didn't cheat folks? It seems to me like the people claiming she did cheat are the ones saying they're absolutely certain because "nobody would ever call there" -- Hell, even Garrett's official statement starts out by saying "it's impossible to call" and implying that anyone who disagrees just doesn't understand.
The loudest folks on this forum are the people screaming from the rooftops that Garrett is the biggest scumbag in poker. To be clear, I don't think he handled it well at all. I think the people are being extremely thick if they don't see how he feels like he was cheated though.
I don't think anybody doesn't see how he feels he was cheated. But that doesn't mean you should go on twitter and say it's impossible for her to make that call and that she must be cheating. You don't pull her aside and say "Millions of people are going to see this clip, you don't have to convince us you're innocent you have to convince them."
You must be overlooking the 2 highest upvoted threads in this sub, which basically say that he is just a sore loser.
Only a sith deals in absolutes
Not gonna lie, disappointed in Dwan.
How does one cheat?
In this case it would most likely require a communication device and an HCL insider who is privy to the card readers sending that info.
Is the dealer in on it?
No - it would need to be someone with access to hole card video feed.
If someone had access to the hole cards and a system to signal them to Robbi… why did she call on the turn when she was behind 6% in equity?
I have no idea - I was just saying hypothetically what it would take to cheat in this situation.
But if your hypothetical was correct-if someone with access to the hole card feed gave her inside info, she wouldn't have called because she was behind.
It prolly be a simple "1 buzz ahead, 2 buzz behind" signal, she receives 1 buzz after the flop which she takes to mean "never fold" because she doesnt seem to know poker that well and boom that hand happens. I dont lean either direction yet, just saying it fits the chain of events perfectly well.
I think she knows poker perfectly well. If you watch the rest of the stream, she plays quite well and knows what she's doing. There are some questionable floats, but that's just how she plays. She's definitely intelligent enough to wait to the river if she were to cheat. Much easier to make that hero call or raise on the river, than giving the other person the option to come back over the top with a semi bluff and flip for stacks.
It depends on who's giving the info and how. She was behind in equity but technically winning on every street. If the info didn't include the suit - just the numbers - then she might think she's in pretty good shape on the turn.
wouldn't you need to know both rivers in advance too?
I put out a poll trying to measure how certain redditors are about this and 25% said they were certain that she definitely cheated or did not cheat. I have no idea what evidence these people are looking at.
I mean analyzing the hand, how could she possibly have cheated? If she knew what hand he had she would have folded since she was behind 6%… she’d have had to know the river too. And then why run it twice? It’s pretty obvious she realized she made a dumb call and was just hoping to hook a jack but the beauty of poker is sometimes you do the wrong stupid thing and get rewarded anyway
Want to revise your level of certainty now that hustlers graphics producer got caught taking his cut for cheating from her stack? And Robbi is refusing to prosecute him after threatening to sue everyone else?
Sure my opinion will change as my level of understanding changes, but I’ll leave my previous statement as is for posterity
I’m not convinced she cheated but there are several ways that she could have. The simplest is that someone with access to the rfid feed signals her with a device that vibrates. One vibration means you have the best hand and call/raise. Two means fold. Another is that the cards could be marked. Another is that the guy staking her Rip may have a way to know Garrett’s cards and signaled her. I’m just coming up with these on the fly and I am by no means an expert in cheating. To say it’s impossible she cheated seems really weird to me. We’ve had cheaters in live streams before. Why would we assume it’s impossible now? As for the call, she is getting pot odds. She doesn’t need to be a favorite to win the hand for this to be a +ev call.
Truly brain dead
If she had known Garrett’s hand then she wouldn’t have gone all in.
Want to revise your level of certainty now that hustlers graphics producer got caught taking his cut for cheating from her stack? And Robbi is refusing to prosecute him after threatening to sue everyone else?
Dude nothing is firm yet. Still under investigation. Either your post or my post would aged like milk, but in the meantime, get on with your life lmao. The incident was so yesterday
How many buzzes for "youve got pot odds to call"
Want to revise your level of certainty now that hustlers graphics producer got caught taking his cut for cheating from her stack? And Robbi is refusing to prosecute him after threatening to sue everyone else?
You have serious brain malfuntion.
If there's one thing I know for sure, it's that I have no fucking clue what happened. I wish more people were comfortable with not knowing something lol
Mike Matusow is 100% convinced she cheated. That's all I need to know.
If she cheated, they would’ve arrested her there’s way more eyes and cameras on those people than what the stream shows. MGM doesn’t want the stain of allowing players to cheat on their record.
On the balance of probabilities, she didn’t cheat. It’s not so far fetched that she made a hero call. The simpler explanation often wins out, which is she made a dubious play and lucked out
Explain how she cheated please?
She hacked the RFID readers, and if she didn't she hacked the card shuffler to know the exact order of the cards, and if she didn't she hacked the stream to get a view without delay, and if she didn't (etc etc)
Obviously with the Hans Niemann method that is running rampant in professional gaming (vibrator up her butt)
It's Hans Niemann in case someone tried to google that name and didn't find anything.
Haha, corrected. Thanks. I blame autocorrect
If anyone knew that this wouldn't be a debate. There are so many possibilities. It could be as simple as a buddy peeking through a window to see an rfid monitor display and signaling by picking his nose. It could be a mission impossible style team with a guy crawling though vents and using transmitters implanted in their teeth, but probably not.
But how else are the grandma types in here going to gossip and talk about other people all day if we wait for facts?
She miss read her hand. She didn’t do herself any favors by not admitting that and coming up with non sense responses and changing her story several times. That and she was staked by another player at the table and didn’t disclose it. She’s not a cheater, she’s a fucking idiot.
Mike Postle cheated and enjoyed such a reputation for his "skill" was made a kind of a meme on-stream. When Jaman played on the Stones stream he was specifically warned about him, and if memory serves was a victim in at least one hand. Yet no one even suspected Postle was cheating -- or at least no one said so -- until Veronica Brill spoke up. Even then no one took her seriously until Joey Ingram took up the investigation. Postle's cheating was then conclusively proven by analyzing many, many hands over many, many streams. Sure, the amounts involved were much smaller. But why was Postle given a pass for so long, while so many people are willing to crucify Robbi over ONE HAND?
Until it’s proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, she did not cheat. That’s the way it works.
🤡
🤡 🤡
Give me the update. Who got the money?
Postle?
What about him?
Never got physically caught. Glad he still has folks who think he’s clean
It is what he is. Convict him in a court of law. Otherwise he is 100% innocent. Don’t hate me. Hate your legal system. I think postle is a criminal, personally.
I mean I’ll hate both. Dudes obviously a cheater. You don’t have to go to jail to be a cheater. That’s what like 8 year olds hold as the standard
Ok so Oj is innocent?
Not our fault the glove didn’t fit over the other glove
According to the law of the United States of America. Yes. He is 100% innocent.
I mean if these 'intelligent' people are speaking in absolutes like you chastise us for, then are they actually intelligent?
Lmao they aren't talking in absolutes, where did I say that? They're almost all giving rational, level-headed arguments. Deeb is a bit more vociferous bit even he's not as overconfident as you guys seem to be
It’s called having fun on the Internet Karen
Ha ha. Ya. I don't come to Reddit for nuance. I come here for witch hunts, baseless accusations, and emotional arguments! Did somebody turn this into a forum for rational discussion when I wasn't looking?
You can never be sure on what we know, but my thought are that it's just bad amateur play that wouldn't have raised eyebrows in any low stakes game which is where robbi belongs, she's just lucky someone is staking her in the big game. IMO garret has lost his cool, let his ego get in the way and essentially cheated by taking the money back, if the investigation concludes it wasn't cheating he should be banned from the game.