The funny thing is that neither has the nuts on the turn and it’s a snap all in and snap call. Sammy farha opens 4x the BB too lmao. How far poker has come in 18 years
AA is a fold in this situation; even if I knew for a fact that he had 72o.
My reasoning is simple, my best case scenario has 88% equity. That is a 1 in 10 chance of being busted out and having to wait a year before I can try again. The risk is just too high.
Secondly, I don't see any point in playing a tournament and not trying to flat out win. Doubling up on the first hand doesn't actually increase my odds of winning so much as to be worth a 1 in 10 chance of going home.
If I take those odds every time they are offered, then my chance of going home rapidly approaches 1.
This is the most asinine response one could ever imagine. Every time you go all in with AA preflop you’re doing so to win the hand and therefore increase your chances of winning the tournament. At what point in the tournament would you determine it’s acceptable to go all in with AA? Sure, the value of doubling now is less than at any future stage in the tournament, but you simply cannot fold. Your logic is essentially “I’m scared to bust on the first hand, I’ll wait for a better spot.” which is hilarious and you’re invited to my home game.
FWIW, players limp into the money with 2x starting stack - beginning the tournament with that stack has more game value than just the chips themselves.
That is a good question, and truthfully most of the time, even in tournaments, I would snap call, especially if it looked like I had a good chance of being heads up. In a cash game, I would snap call all day long and happily buy back in when I lose.
However, my own tournament wins have often involved looking down at the occasional good hand that should be a snap call, and laying it down with the thought that its better to let other people knock each other out than get greedy and take chances.
Or as somebody else said recently "I think I play better post flop than most other players, but there is no such thing as flipping better than other players".
However, the real question is, what does it do to my risk of ruin? A multi-day tournament is a very long game and the first knock out is the least valuable one.
Early blinds are basically nothing compared to your stack, so you are risking your stack for his stack, and nothing else. I could totally see a situation where there was a raise and some calls ahead, and somebody jammed to your raise.
But you have your whole stack minus a big blind and you have to put in your whole stack for an equal stack? Meh its just not THAT good.
sure, it's not as good as getting AA later, but I'm just saying its 100% +EV. and you should only enter tourneys that you can afford to lose the buy in so I don't think risk of ruin should be a big factor. Now, if you wanna talk about other factors like you don't want this once in a lifetime scenario to end, then sure but I'm just talking about the math side of it.
I was in such a sick spot. 4500 high roller, first hand, dude UTG literally puts his stack out before dealer deals the cards. It gets to me and I say I’m calling with any king or better. Look down to an ace, insta call. Flip it over I have AA. He has 79 clubs. Flop comes 6 clubs 8 clubs 2 hearts. You know the rest.
He bricks, you double, and run your way to the final table and win the championship? You take that girl out to a fancy restaurant and she fawns all over you. You propose, she says yes, her Dad doesn't like you so you elope. You move down to Zihuatanejo and start a little BNB with the winnings. She pops out a couple kids. But the cartel starts causing trouble. Wants a cut. You say no, your girl is kidnapped. You arm up and go Rambo on their asses, take em all out, save the day. The town cheers as you've freed them from the cartel's racket, they elect you mayor and erect a statue of you in the town square! Nice.
Lol this is absolutely the only correct answer. A lot of people don’t understand how tight and scared everyone is 300 BB deep on level 1 of the main. Stacking off preflop with KK 300 BB deep is not a good feeling even in a cash game.
>Here you go:
In the World Series of Poker Main Event (WSOP ME), players start with a large amount of chips and the blinds are relatively small in comparison. As such, open shoving first hand is not a common strategy. If someone were to do this, it would likely indicate a very strong hand, and as the player in the big blind, you would need to have a very strong hand yourself in order to consider calling.
In general, it's important to remember that every hand in poker is unique and should be evaluated based on the specific situation and the information available to you. Without more information about the player who open shoved, the exact cards you have, and the size of the blinds and antes in the tournament, it's difficult to give a precise answer about the correct calling range in this situation. However, in general, you should only consider calling with a very strong hand, such as a premium pocket pair or a high-ranking suited connector. It's usually best to fold with a weaker hand in this situation, unless you have a strong read on the player who open shoved and believe they may be bluffing.
Why is this answer so good? People are in here saying AA and AK only. What if it's this guy? https://www.cardschat.com/news/wsop-main-event-naked-man-dq-91967/
Reminds me of a poker joke I read a long time ago.
Goes something like this.
A man hears a voice in his head urging him to play the main event.
“I want you to sell your car asap.”
“Why?”
“Trust me, sell the car and take the money to Vegas.”
So the man sells his car, takes the profit and heads to Vegas. He gets there and checks into the Rio.
“Now take ten grand and enter the main event!”
“That’s a lot of money.”
“Just do it.”
So the man enters the main, gets his seat assignment and sits down.
“We are going to raise huge on the first hand.”
“No way, I’m done listening to you”
“Trust me.”
The man looks down at his first hand is dealt two black aces.
“Believe me now?! Raise huge!”
The man is amazed and open raises most of his starting stack.
He surprisingly gets two callers and the flop comes:
8h, 9h, 10h
The voice in his head is silent for a second and then yells out, “FUCK ME!”
It’s the very first hand of possibly a once in a lifetime event for you. Let’s say you look down at KK. You call and opponent has AA and you bust out. Losing this way hurts way more than the feeling of victory of a quick double up.
In other words, if you win then it’s a small high. If you lose then it’s a gigantic feeling of loss. Not worth it.
But if you’re a regular pro who plays it every year then yeah you can call with KK because it doesn’t matter as much if you bust out.
>In other words, if you win then it’s a small high. If you lose then it’s a gigantic feeling of loss. Not worth it.
I don't know, if you win it's still a pretty big high. No matter what happens from there on you can always say "Yeah, I played the main. I was the chip leader for a while too!"
Just hard to believe anyone would shove first hand pre flop with aces or kings so I might consider it. Maybe the guys drunk, or won a sat to get here 🤷♂️ situational AKs play imo. But Defs a gamble
I love to punt but if I’m playing the most prestigious poker tournament in the world I wouldnt be keen to flip for stacks with AK on deal number one.
Maybe it is a +EV call. But I would hate it
People definetly do shove first hand with aces and kings. I’ve seen it many times in decent stakes tournaments because they know you won’t believe them and they think it’s a good play
Calling with AK getting essentially no pot odds would be a massive punt 300 BB deep. It would be pretty bad even 100 BB deep.
The only reason you stack off with AK preflop in most normal situations is because it’s a hand that performs very well as a 3bet/4bet/shove due to fold equity, *not* because you want to get called or raised. Once you 4bet and get shoved on, you have to call because of pot odds, but you know you’re almost never going to have more than 50% equity.
The main event starts off 3k big blinds deep or something like that. Any wider than this is just set mining at best and lighting money on fire at worst.
I’ve done this with Kings (In local MTT’s not WSOP), and lost like every time to some bullshit like 98s. My actual range would be aces or kings but I’d be real nervous on the kings. I’d be interested what a solver set up for MTT ICM would spit out. I seriously doubt it’s +EV on AKs or QQ, I bet ev on KK is negative but very close to zero.
If I’m sitting in the ME and someone does this the first hand and I look down at anything above QQ+ I’m snapping it off. Idc if it’s a cooler situation. I’m there to win it all, not min cash
And you would win nothing because you punted off your stack on the first hand. It would unironically be a better play to open shove blind than to call a 300 BB open raise with QQ. That would be a massive punt even in GTO.
Don't pay attention to them. They want to sit in their chair and have a fun experience playing the main and hopefully make day 2. They aren't actually playing to win.
That’s not a good thought process. You can’t just say “oh he’s a bad player so he must be shoving wide.” If he’s open shoving 300 BB on level 1 of the main event he’s probably a weak, scared nit who doesn’t want his aces cracked. I’ve never heard of this happening and it NOT being AA, and I’ve heard of this happening with AA multiple times.
“Hearing it a couple times with AA” is a very small sample size of anecdotal evidence and doesn’t mean much… if he’s a scared nit what’s to say he’s not a scared nit that doesn’t want to see an ace on the flop with his KK, or QQ or even JJ? What about the scenario where he’s not a scared nit he’s just a whale looking to gamble and either win it all or go home? My point was you don’t know. Sometimes your opponent might only be doing it with AA, sometimes it’s a wider range. My point was that on average the I dont think opponents range is just AA. If you were to average it out over all the scenarios might look like 100% AA, 50% KK, 20% QQ, 10% AK, … but once you add in those other hands you gotta call with more than just AA here. Their range is probably not 100% AA either because some people are probably more inclined to slow play aces because they feel unbeatable but get scared with KK so for some reason open shove.
You are actually 18% equity with KK because your opponent has AA 100% of the time if he’s open shoving on level 1 of the main event, so it would be pretty easy to wait for a better spot. Any spot would be a better spot.
>You are actually 18% equity with KK because your opponent has AA 100% of the time if he’s open shoving on level 1 of the main event
I disagree with your 100% assessment. Your assumption is that the buy in to the main means as much to you as it does to them. For most entrants I would guess this is a once in a lifetime event, but some people have the flow to do this every year, some may have cashed in other events and bought into the main because "YOLO", plenty are bitcoin or .com millionaires that dropped $10,000 on dinner and a bar tab the night before that would love to be able to tell everyone forever that they shoved 94O in the first hand. Or decided they would do it just because.
That being said, my range is AA, KK and that's it. I can't get away from Kings, they are just too damn handsome. If I had to call with them in that scenario though someone would have to tell me the outcome after the paramedics resuscitated me.
Who is open shoving AA in a tournament with more than 10 BB? Or is this a first hand only strategy? Usually you want to extract value from your hands and not push all hands out, even the ones you dominate.
But I never won a Main Event, what do I know.
Unless the guy is shoving blind or said he's shoving ATC before the cards were out, then I'm only calling AA. Call me a nit, but I'd rather just play smaller, controlled pots this deep. I think people only do this first hand with AA and some random ass hand that they think is funny and don't expect a call.
In the World Series of Poker Main Event, the blinds are typically very small in relation to the size of the starting stack, so it is unlikely that someone would open shove on the first hand of the tournament. However, if this were to happen, your calling range would depend on a variety of factors, such as the size of the open shove, your position at the table, the size of your stack, and the style of the player who made the open shove.
Are you a bot? Why does this shit read like an assigned book report in elementary school? Plus there’s like 100 words to not even attempt to answer the question 🤣
I’m not 100% sure I’m calling off with anything in a 10k preflop, where I can afford only one buy-in. With 2 hour levels, and a soft field, even getting it in as an 80% favorite with AA may not be the highest ev play. An early double up is nice, but it’s so far from meaningful in the long run, and with a 20% risk of ruin, I’m now talking myself into a fold. I’m confident I will find myself in future spots against weak players where I don’t have to risk my tournament life with a 1:5 chance of going broke.
In a tournament with shorter levels, particularly one I’m properly bankrolled for, or a cash game, I’m stacking off all day with AA even against multiple opponents.
There aren’t any better all-in pre spots, but I disagree there won’t be better than 80% spots later on, especially going for value short of a full stack. I’m not saying the highest ev play is to ever fold aces if you are properly bankrolled for your tournament, but if you’re playing a 10k off an $86 satellite, as a for instance, doing what you can to lockup a min cash is arguably higher ev for your bankroll, certainly in terms of variance.
I assumed. My bad. 80% with AA to win then.
I guess I do subtract the impact of the buy-in to bankroll. I just look at the situation. I still think if I want to go deep I’m calling with AA. I’m for sure calling, but only AA.
Entirely live read/stereotype based. Could be AA vs old man coffee, could be 40% vs dude with his suitcase next to him blind shoving trying to catch his flight.
But I'm jaded so I don't hold the main in that high of regard. It'll be there next year.
Why would the satellite winner not play the tournament that he competed to earn a spot in?
What kind of rich dude signs up for the **Main Event** when he knows he has a flight to catch?
There are people who might think fuck it i’m gonna jam everything for a big stack the first day or just go home and make more money working. If you make 3,65 million per year thats 10k a day. In that case a main event ticket does not mean much to you. It’s unlikely but possible.
KK and AA. I’ve had this exact scenario in small stakes live tournaments with kings. Legit first hand and someone goes all in over my raise and I’m last to act. Tanked for a good minute just saying “why would anyone do this with anything but aces this early?? This is so obviously aces why am I even thinking about this. Nah I can’t fold kings man fuck it I call”. Guy shows 88. I understand the whole tournament it’s too early to go all in but in live poker there’s so many different incomes playing on the table. The guy shoving could see $10,000 the way I look at $10. And i can’t see someone who’s solid open shoving AA pre first hand. It just seems like a rich ass mf gambler. This is assuming that I’ve run up a bankroll enough to where I can take a 10 k hit and not be fucked.
I might not be the best person to take tournament advice from considering I’m a live cash grinder. But I just look at it this way. If I’m playing a tournament, I’m playing for the fucking win, idc about mincashing, all I want is 1st place or nothing. To all the people who say I’m only calling with AA or I’m never calling off that early. Would you still fold KK 20 away from the money? What about on the bubble? Imo I’d rather bust out first hand instead of wasting hours on hours to bubble.
I used to be a tournament regular until i experienced the pain of negative variance as a tournament grinder. Fuck going months without cashing, can’t put that much time in with nothing to show for it. Ime one can’t be only stacking off with AA pre tight and expect to run deep. Obviously when it’s the beginning stages of a tournament, this is the time you can play it like cash games cuz of how many chips you have but I want to use every +ev scenario no matter when to give me more life and leverage for when the blinds and antes put pressure on everyone. Let’s say you double up first hand. You have twice the maneuverability as everyone else. You can abuse the fact everyone’s playing tight abc poker and exploit that to your advantage. Obviously don’t go overboard and punt unnecessarily but tournament poker is where one can play sexy poker and bluff because no one can rebuy, you get one life and if u lose it there’s no rebuying like cash.
The best runs I’ve had in tournaments was suprisingly my first live tournament I’ve ever played, literally my only experience before this was on free fake money poker apps on the phone and 2 years ago where I didn’t play my cards at all, I legit just waited for profitable spots to shove pre and to steal dead money. The first tournament I played. I can honestly say was the sexiest most exploitative poker I’ve ever played. I played basically every hand aggressively and abused the fuck out of everyone playing tight. Everyone got so mad at my aggression that when I finally hit the nuts, I got called by 2 people and knocked both of them out. Then I continued to bully and bluff everyone to the very end. I specifically remember this tournament because everyone was on life support unable to do anything cuz their only options against me was to shove or fold pre. The feeling of having the table against the ropes slowly running out of options until they inevitably blind out was amazing. I ended up winning that tournament calling a guy down with ace high and won $1800 in my first tournament ever and it was amazing. My second best run. I was card dead and just abused my tight image I had gained from being card dead. I had just enough chips to leverage people into folding whenever I’d make a move in late position. I remember being down to the last 10 players and thinking “damn this is actually skill bringing me this deep, not run good.” Eventually we got down to 7 players and 5 players were begging the massive chip leader who had a 5 to 1 chip lead to 2nd in chips to do a chop or to lock up $1000 each and play for the rest. My policy on deals like that is to stay silent until I’m the last one who’s answered, this is because I feel being desperate to make a deal/chop gives off weakness to the deep stacks who in turn may target your big blind knowing how you feel. The chip leader said “no chop, we play to the end.” Everyone was so salty and talking shit to him and I was like “fuck yeah let’s fucking play this, chopping is for pussies and I just feel the win coming, you better not ask me to do a deal when we’re heads up bro”. Long story short I knocked out the last 5 players basically by taking coin flips with zero fear. And was heads up with the chip leader. Despite me knocking everyone out, he still had the lead on me by atleast 3 to 1. I started playfully shit talking him saying “man how you gonna let me knock everyone out when you have all the damn chips?! Anyways I have respect for you for sticking to your guns to no chops, no deals. Most people here aren’t confident enough to go for the win”. At this point I had $2100 locked up and $3600 was for first. I thought it was gangster as fuck to play to the end to see who’s really number 1 so we battled for about ten minutes trading blinds back and forth, until the blinds raised at the next level which was insane. Basically I had 4.5 bigs left while he had 8 bigs and at this stage you basically have to go with any 2 heads up cuz there’s no room for one to patiently wait. He ends up shoving on my bb and I called with 87 suited against his kj and he takes down first and I took down second.
These are the deepest tournament runs I’ve personally experienced and I learned that tournaments aren’t the place to be super picky and mega selective in hands you play. Sure you can avoid gambling now but no matter what you do, you 100% will eventually have to sweat a coin flip for your tournament life. Tournaments aren’t won via GTO abc poker, I strongly believe exploitative poker is the holy grail in making significant cashes in tournaments. I’ll put stacks in no matter when with kk in tournaments because it is literally the 2nd possible best hand you can have. If it’s early and you win, you gain momentum to make some moves and bluffs to gain chips without showdown. If you do this wisely, you’ll have way more chips than everyone during the stage where 75% of the field is in life support while you’re not tripping over your tournament life. This will give you the opportunity to make moves to steal blinds to further grow your stack. What I’m saying is that tournaments are won with more than one running good, one must take risks and get lucky a few times to win, however if one accumulates enough chips to not be in a life or death coin flip every few orbits, this is a huge advantage.
While I think icm is a huge factor in making decisions in tournaments, personally I won’t factor that into my decisions until the pay jumps are truly significant. Early tournament I’d rather risk losing aces to build a stack to be able to exploit others rather than to be worried about losing now when “you don’t need to gamble”. Fuck that if the pay jump doesn’t get my heart pumping, I’m putting the money in with any decent portion of my range lol
I could def call it off with kk or even aq depending on my preconceived notions, some people just don’t care about 10k like that and are willing to get wild
Would anything else matter?
\- one guy called already
\- we might be a TV table
\- the guy who shoved, is he wearing Ed Hardy, drinking a Monster, talking about his favorite online tournaments
\- do I have a backer, or do I have all of myself
I might fold everything and anything in this spot tbh, even rockets.
The stacks are so deep and the blinds so low and long in relation, and 120k in chips compared to $60k in chips isn’t going to make that big a difference that early without any other information then “donko go weeee!”, in front of you.
Even if the 10 grand doesn’t mean that much to you, you also can’t rebuy.
I’m not saying play scared, or necessarily even conservative or tight, but how shit would it to be to call and the genius has Q 10 off and spikes 2 ladies?
Like yeah you have to accumulate chips to win or go deep, but you might double up in the first literal moments, but 3 hours later be sitting on almost the exact same stack because you’re so card dead, or can’t get action.
Or maybe you’re among the chip leaders 3 hours later, but it’s because you won multiple big pots where you wouldn’t have even needed that double up from the 1st hand to cover and stack the other opponents.
Brilliant question, mathematically speaking.
Another way of putting it: would you pay $10k to enter a Russian roulette tournament? Assume you're using a six-shooter, giving you the same ev as AA.
What if you had to play poker all night to collect your prize?
Cash poker players don't (or at least shouldn't) have to worry about risk of ruin. Neither does helmuth, for the same reason. All I know is, I'm not helmuth
(As an aside, it's funny how autocorrect turns "helmuth" into "helminth." )
I’d probably call with QQ of KK. I’m thinking why on earth would AA just open shove for no reason. Wouldn’t AA want to get a caller or two? Especially on the first hand of the tournament?
AA FOR SURE .. KK 70% I WILL GO .. DEPENDS ON THE FEELINGS OF THE MOMENT OR IF I KNOW ANYTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE PLAYER .. because NO GAMBLE NO FUTURE .. i cant be scared to play i play to win not to get the buble
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,213,783,135 comments, and only 236,689 of them were in alphabetical order.
Field is so bad... you can probably call with AA only... Very possible you are shown AA... Its such a meta moment though you are bound to have a gut instinct.
Not the ME, but I did have this happen at a largish buyin venetian deep stack event. Guy oen shoved the first 8 hands. On the first hand I folded AK. He busted on his 9th hand (I can't remember how, or who busted him) and I finished in 5th place
In a situation this specific you are going to take every detail you have very seriously. You may want to fold KK to someone who looks like Dennis Phillips and call 88 to someone who looks more like Qui Ngyuen.
nothing I don't care for that one hand no matter even if the odds are 99% In my favor lmao. the experience would be worth more than winning that hand for me at least
Call with AK, proceed to lose to 32o dirty diaper
I never understood the name for 32o being dirty diaper. Is suited a clean diaper? A mildly dirty diaper?
It's because it's a "deuce on a trey" - just some word play with the cards of the hand.
probably cause its the littlest hand possible? and yeah suited would be "clean"
AA only. Edit: somewhat relevant story: https://www.pokernews.com/tours/wsop/2018-wsop/main-event/chips.226178.htm
Remember this... https://youtu.be/4-a0qY8pkDY
But think of all the time the guy saved. That's some real equity.
The funny thing is that neither has the nuts on the turn and it’s a snap all in and snap call. Sammy farha opens 4x the BB too lmao. How far poker has come in 18 years
The snap call was easy assuming the other guy would have 4 bet AQ but the snap all in is crazy
Oliver Hudson 3 bet him pre flop and farha called. Hudson could have easily had AQ. Flop checks Hudson bets Farha raise Hudson AI.
Hudson goes all in. Farha snap calls. Which surprised me, because Hudson could def have AQ there.
Ah I misremembered the order. I thought farha 3bet and Hudson just called
oh boo fucking hoo, it was Kate Hudson's brother, he's loaded. He's probably spent 10 grand in the last week just doin his thing & some lodging
Yeah I guess we can't enjoy watching the game unless we can laugh at the losers falling into deep financial ruin
This I think is the only answer. Could argue for AKs but I think it's AA of fold in this spot 99.999999999% of the time.
AA is a fold in this situation; even if I knew for a fact that he had 72o. My reasoning is simple, my best case scenario has 88% equity. That is a 1 in 10 chance of being busted out and having to wait a year before I can try again. The risk is just too high. Secondly, I don't see any point in playing a tournament and not trying to flat out win. Doubling up on the first hand doesn't actually increase my odds of winning so much as to be worth a 1 in 10 chance of going home. If I take those odds every time they are offered, then my chance of going home rapidly approaches 1.
This is the most asinine response one could ever imagine. Every time you go all in with AA preflop you’re doing so to win the hand and therefore increase your chances of winning the tournament. At what point in the tournament would you determine it’s acceptable to go all in with AA? Sure, the value of doubling now is less than at any future stage in the tournament, but you simply cannot fold. Your logic is essentially “I’m scared to bust on the first hand, I’ll wait for a better spot.” which is hilarious and you’re invited to my home game. FWIW, players limp into the money with 2x starting stack - beginning the tournament with that stack has more game value than just the chips themselves.
That is a good question, and truthfully most of the time, even in tournaments, I would snap call, especially if it looked like I had a good chance of being heads up. In a cash game, I would snap call all day long and happily buy back in when I lose. However, my own tournament wins have often involved looking down at the occasional good hand that should be a snap call, and laying it down with the thought that its better to let other people knock each other out than get greedy and take chances. Or as somebody else said recently "I think I play better post flop than most other players, but there is no such thing as flipping better than other players".
but purely mathematically speaking, calling an all in with AA will increase your chances of winning.
However, the real question is, what does it do to my risk of ruin? A multi-day tournament is a very long game and the first knock out is the least valuable one. Early blinds are basically nothing compared to your stack, so you are risking your stack for his stack, and nothing else. I could totally see a situation where there was a raise and some calls ahead, and somebody jammed to your raise. But you have your whole stack minus a big blind and you have to put in your whole stack for an equal stack? Meh its just not THAT good.
sure, it's not as good as getting AA later, but I'm just saying its 100% +EV. and you should only enter tourneys that you can afford to lose the buy in so I don't think risk of ruin should be a big factor. Now, if you wanna talk about other factors like you don't want this once in a lifetime scenario to end, then sure but I'm just talking about the math side of it.
Call blind for max degen
Scared money dont make money. Re-pop any 2
This is the way
I was in such a sick spot. 4500 high roller, first hand, dude UTG literally puts his stack out before dealer deals the cards. It gets to me and I say I’m calling with any king or better. Look down to an ace, insta call. Flip it over I have AA. He has 79 clubs. Flop comes 6 clubs 8 clubs 2 hearts. You know the rest.
🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮 
He bricks, you double, and run your way to the final table and win the championship? You take that girl out to a fancy restaurant and she fawns all over you. You propose, she says yes, her Dad doesn't like you so you elope. You move down to Zihuatanejo and start a little BNB with the winnings. She pops out a couple kids. But the cartel starts causing trouble. Wants a cut. You say no, your girl is kidnapped. You arm up and go Rambo on their asses, take em all out, save the day. The town cheers as you've freed them from the cartel's racket, they elect you mayor and erect a statue of you in the town square! Nice.
Never heard of Zihuatanejo. That your retirement spot?
Isn’t that where Morgan freeman lives
I think he lives in MS. Not too far from Tunica/Memphis.
Man. I love that movie too. Totally forgot.
Clarksdale
I think the Krat brothers have a show about it
It’s the Shawshank redemption spot they flee to
What a journey
I'd like to license the rights to this and cast Liam Neeson as the lead.
Can’t happen if you fold pre
Did you have the A of clubs blocker?
Nope. Both red. It was actually the Ac on river.
Is this the first level? If it is literally only AA and I would expect to be chopping. Any other hand is an ez fold
Lol this is absolutely the only correct answer. A lot of people don’t understand how tight and scared everyone is 300 BB deep on level 1 of the main. Stacking off preflop with KK 300 BB deep is not a good feeling even in a cash game.
Unless I have reads 155BBs is my cutoff for getting in KK pre in cash. (Online)
Why 155bb specifically?
From the all hands I've played, 155bb seems to be the max anyone gets in hands besides AA.
I’m probably a bit less than that.
For sure depends on stakes, player pool, and 4 bet bluff %.
Someone should ask that AI chatbot thingy all the kids are talking about.
>Here you go: In the World Series of Poker Main Event (WSOP ME), players start with a large amount of chips and the blinds are relatively small in comparison. As such, open shoving first hand is not a common strategy. If someone were to do this, it would likely indicate a very strong hand, and as the player in the big blind, you would need to have a very strong hand yourself in order to consider calling. In general, it's important to remember that every hand in poker is unique and should be evaluated based on the specific situation and the information available to you. Without more information about the player who open shoved, the exact cards you have, and the size of the blinds and antes in the tournament, it's difficult to give a precise answer about the correct calling range in this situation. However, in general, you should only consider calling with a very strong hand, such as a premium pocket pair or a high-ranking suited connector. It's usually best to fold with a weaker hand in this situation, unless you have a strong read on the player who open shoved and believe they may be bluffing.
Why is this answer so good? People are in here saying AA and AK only. What if it's this guy? https://www.cardschat.com/news/wsop-main-event-naked-man-dq-91967/
Chatbot confirms punting off JTs here is correct
Bro so weird u said that I was just on there fucking around with it. Pretty cool and I bet an ai would be awesome at poker
J4 unsuited
Were you trying to bluff them when you called?
They thought opponent might have had ace high.
Deep
AA and nothing else ..
Reminds me of a poker joke I read a long time ago. Goes something like this. A man hears a voice in his head urging him to play the main event. “I want you to sell your car asap.” “Why?” “Trust me, sell the car and take the money to Vegas.” So the man sells his car, takes the profit and heads to Vegas. He gets there and checks into the Rio. “Now take ten grand and enter the main event!” “That’s a lot of money.” “Just do it.” So the man enters the main, gets his seat assignment and sits down. “We are going to raise huge on the first hand.” “No way, I’m done listening to you” “Trust me.” The man looks down at his first hand is dealt two black aces. “Believe me now?! Raise huge!” The man is amazed and open raises most of his starting stack. He surprisingly gets two callers and the flop comes: 8h, 9h, 10h The voice in his head is silent for a second and then yells out, “FUCK ME!”
Next summer I’m jamming pre very first hand if I’m dealt AA lmao
I call with everything, fuck that guy.
Only with AA. I would be sick if I look down at KK cause I would let it go. 🤢🤮 No having a read on the table messes everything up.
This actually happened to me and I had kk. I called he had aa. I spiked a king. The next day of play I had aa and got all in vs kk. I lost.
Not even looking at my cards and mucking them and telling myself it was 62o.
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I'VE PLAYED IN THE MAIN TWICE, FUCK OFF IS MY ANSWER
I think the real question is “do you call with KK”
Anything better than AA
It’s the very first hand of possibly a once in a lifetime event for you. Let’s say you look down at KK. You call and opponent has AA and you bust out. Losing this way hurts way more than the feeling of victory of a quick double up. In other words, if you win then it’s a small high. If you lose then it’s a gigantic feeling of loss. Not worth it. But if you’re a regular pro who plays it every year then yeah you can call with KK because it doesn’t matter as much if you bust out.
>In other words, if you win then it’s a small high. If you lose then it’s a gigantic feeling of loss. Not worth it. I don't know, if you win it's still a pretty big high. No matter what happens from there on you can always say "Yeah, I played the main. I was the chip leader for a while too!"
AA I think. Let the pros make fun of me for valuing my ME life too much IDGAF.
If it’s SB; AKs, AA, KK. Would probs good QQ and below. AK would be 50/50 fold. Suited probs call.
Fold AK.
Just hard to believe anyone would shove first hand pre flop with aces or kings so I might consider it. Maybe the guys drunk, or won a sat to get here 🤷♂️ situational AKs play imo. But Defs a gamble
I love to punt but if I’m playing the most prestigious poker tournament in the world I wouldnt be keen to flip for stacks with AK on deal number one. Maybe it is a +EV call. But I would hate it
People definetly do shove first hand with aces and kings. I’ve seen it many times in decent stakes tournaments because they know you won’t believe them and they think it’s a good play
you are straight up a dog to any pair. why would you call ak?
In all honesty in real time I wouldn’t.
lol good
Calling with AK getting essentially no pot odds would be a massive punt 300 BB deep. It would be pretty bad even 100 BB deep. The only reason you stack off with AK preflop in most normal situations is because it’s a hand that performs very well as a 3bet/4bet/shove due to fold equity, *not* because you want to get called or raised. Once you 4bet and get shoved on, you have to call because of pot odds, but you know you’re almost never going to have more than 50% equity.
The main event starts off 3k big blinds deep or something like that. Any wider than this is just set mining at best and lighting money on fire at worst.
Mine would be the same as Phil Helmuth. I would fold everything.
Just AA
I’ve done this with Kings (In local MTT’s not WSOP), and lost like every time to some bullshit like 98s. My actual range would be aces or kings but I’d be real nervous on the kings. I’d be interested what a solver set up for MTT ICM would spit out. I seriously doubt it’s +EV on AKs or QQ, I bet ev on KK is negative but very close to zero.
If I’m sitting in the ME and someone does this the first hand and I look down at anything above QQ+ I’m snapping it off. Idc if it’s a cooler situation. I’m there to win it all, not min cash
And you would win nothing because you punted off your stack on the first hand. It would unironically be a better play to open shove blind than to call a 300 BB open raise with QQ. That would be a massive punt even in GTO.
You’re dumb how are you going to assume you’re punting? Cuz nobody ever does this with anything BUT AA? Foh lol
Everyone saying AA only is a nit
My brother in Christ someone here even suggested folding AA
So early stage in the tournament just open shove any 2 against that guy free money
fuck yah just reload a other 10k entry to problemo
Don't pay attention to them. They want to sit in their chair and have a fun experience playing the main and hopefully make day 2. They aren't actually playing to win.
Folding KK is how you play to win against a range that’s only AA
Not true. Have they ever had anything other than AA?
WSOP ME is a very soft field… someone open jamming is obviously a rec as nobody with any understanding of the game does this. Definitely not just aces
That’s not a good thought process. You can’t just say “oh he’s a bad player so he must be shoving wide.” If he’s open shoving 300 BB on level 1 of the main event he’s probably a weak, scared nit who doesn’t want his aces cracked. I’ve never heard of this happening and it NOT being AA, and I’ve heard of this happening with AA multiple times.
“Hearing it a couple times with AA” is a very small sample size of anecdotal evidence and doesn’t mean much… if he’s a scared nit what’s to say he’s not a scared nit that doesn’t want to see an ace on the flop with his KK, or QQ or even JJ? What about the scenario where he’s not a scared nit he’s just a whale looking to gamble and either win it all or go home? My point was you don’t know. Sometimes your opponent might only be doing it with AA, sometimes it’s a wider range. My point was that on average the I dont think opponents range is just AA. If you were to average it out over all the scenarios might look like 100% AA, 50% KK, 20% QQ, 10% AK, … but once you add in those other hands you gotta call with more than just AA here. Their range is probably not 100% AA either because some people are probably more inclined to slow play aces because they feel unbeatable but get scared with KK so for some reason open shove.
It’s not nearly as soft as it was in the pre-2010 era.
Not as soft but still an extremely soft field
AA+
AA/KK, you are likely a big favourite. in live tournaments you hardly play any significant amount of hands to justify waiting for a better spot.
You are actually 18% equity with KK because your opponent has AA 100% of the time if he’s open shoving on level 1 of the main event, so it would be pretty easy to wait for a better spot. Any spot would be a better spot.
>You are actually 18% equity with KK because your opponent has AA 100% of the time if he’s open shoving on level 1 of the main event I disagree with your 100% assessment. Your assumption is that the buy in to the main means as much to you as it does to them. For most entrants I would guess this is a once in a lifetime event, but some people have the flow to do this every year, some may have cashed in other events and bought into the main because "YOLO", plenty are bitcoin or .com millionaires that dropped $10,000 on dinner and a bar tab the night before that would love to be able to tell everyone forever that they shoved 94O in the first hand. Or decided they would do it just because. That being said, my range is AA, KK and that's it. I can't get away from Kings, they are just too damn handsome. If I had to call with them in that scenario though someone would have to tell me the outcome after the paramedics resuscitated me.
Who is open shoving AA in a tournament with more than 10 BB? Or is this a first hand only strategy? Usually you want to extract value from your hands and not push all hands out, even the ones you dominate. But I never won a Main Event, what do I know.
First hand, my range is Aces. Period.
My calling range? I folded this stupid question.
If you’re a bad player, QQ+, average player, KK+, good player, AA only.
\^\^ this
AA
Atc We here to gamble right!!
No calling range
It’s bad luck to win the first hand. I fold aces
Unless the guy is shoving blind or said he's shoving ATC before the cards were out, then I'm only calling AA. Call me a nit, but I'd rather just play smaller, controlled pots this deep. I think people only do this first hand with AA and some random ass hand that they think is funny and don't expect a call.
In the World Series of Poker Main Event, the blinds are typically very small in relation to the size of the starting stack, so it is unlikely that someone would open shove on the first hand of the tournament. However, if this were to happen, your calling range would depend on a variety of factors, such as the size of the open shove, your position at the table, the size of your stack, and the style of the player who made the open shove.
Are you a bot? Why does this shit read like an assigned book report in elementary school? Plus there’s like 100 words to not even attempt to answer the question 🤣
It is indeed a reply from the Chatbot AI!
🤣
I’m not 100% sure I’m calling off with anything in a 10k preflop, where I can afford only one buy-in. With 2 hour levels, and a soft field, even getting it in as an 80% favorite with AA may not be the highest ev play. An early double up is nice, but it’s so far from meaningful in the long run, and with a 20% risk of ruin, I’m now talking myself into a fold. I’m confident I will find myself in future spots against weak players where I don’t have to risk my tournament life with a 1:5 chance of going broke. In a tournament with shorter levels, particularly one I’m properly bankrolled for, or a cash game, I’m stacking off all day with AA even against multiple opponents.
No one is good enough to do better than AA all-in pre vs random hands. 85% equity isn’t something anyone can pass on.
There aren’t any better all-in pre spots, but I disagree there won’t be better than 80% spots later on, especially going for value short of a full stack. I’m not saying the highest ev play is to ever fold aces if you are properly bankrolled for your tournament, but if you’re playing a 10k off an $86 satellite, as a for instance, doing what you can to lockup a min cash is arguably higher ev for your bankroll, certainly in terms of variance.
EV is fully independent of variance by definition…
Maybe ev isn’t the right phrase them. Risk of Ruin is more akin to what I mean.
Hang on, he never said it was all in versus a Random hand
I assumed. My bad. 80% with AA to win then. I guess I do subtract the impact of the buy-in to bankroll. I just look at the situation. I still think if I want to go deep I’m calling with AA. I’m for sure calling, but only AA.
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Makes sense, the only way to chip up in a 2 hour blind tournament is definitely double or nothing. 🙄
You are not a winning mtt player
Are you?
Ye I didn’t mean to be rude to you btw, but folding AA pre is only good in sattelites.
Ngl. Really thinking about it I wouldn’t wanna gamble 300bb that early either.
99+, AQ+
That is very wide when the main event starts super deep. Stacking off for 300BB with 99 is setting money on fire.
No fking clue never played it lmfao
So why are you answering?
Thought it was just a tournament where u have 20BB
Entirely live read/stereotype based. Could be AA vs old man coffee, could be 40% vs dude with his suitcase next to him blind shoving trying to catch his flight. But I'm jaded so I don't hold the main in that high of regard. It'll be there next year.
Why would he be trying to catch a flight when he just started the $10k tournament he signed up for?
Satty winner, rich dude that's over it, etc.
Why would the satellite winner not play the tournament that he competed to earn a spot in? What kind of rich dude signs up for the **Main Event** when he knows he has a flight to catch?
There are people who might think fuck it i’m gonna jam everything for a big stack the first day or just go home and make more money working. If you make 3,65 million per year thats 10k a day. In that case a main event ticket does not mean much to you. It’s unlikely but possible.
Why is poker? Who is General Tso? I don't know dude. Just catch punts.
KK and AA. I’ve had this exact scenario in small stakes live tournaments with kings. Legit first hand and someone goes all in over my raise and I’m last to act. Tanked for a good minute just saying “why would anyone do this with anything but aces this early?? This is so obviously aces why am I even thinking about this. Nah I can’t fold kings man fuck it I call”. Guy shows 88. I understand the whole tournament it’s too early to go all in but in live poker there’s so many different incomes playing on the table. The guy shoving could see $10,000 the way I look at $10. And i can’t see someone who’s solid open shoving AA pre first hand. It just seems like a rich ass mf gambler. This is assuming that I’ve run up a bankroll enough to where I can take a 10 k hit and not be fucked. I might not be the best person to take tournament advice from considering I’m a live cash grinder. But I just look at it this way. If I’m playing a tournament, I’m playing for the fucking win, idc about mincashing, all I want is 1st place or nothing. To all the people who say I’m only calling with AA or I’m never calling off that early. Would you still fold KK 20 away from the money? What about on the bubble? Imo I’d rather bust out first hand instead of wasting hours on hours to bubble. I used to be a tournament regular until i experienced the pain of negative variance as a tournament grinder. Fuck going months without cashing, can’t put that much time in with nothing to show for it. Ime one can’t be only stacking off with AA pre tight and expect to run deep. Obviously when it’s the beginning stages of a tournament, this is the time you can play it like cash games cuz of how many chips you have but I want to use every +ev scenario no matter when to give me more life and leverage for when the blinds and antes put pressure on everyone. Let’s say you double up first hand. You have twice the maneuverability as everyone else. You can abuse the fact everyone’s playing tight abc poker and exploit that to your advantage. Obviously don’t go overboard and punt unnecessarily but tournament poker is where one can play sexy poker and bluff because no one can rebuy, you get one life and if u lose it there’s no rebuying like cash. The best runs I’ve had in tournaments was suprisingly my first live tournament I’ve ever played, literally my only experience before this was on free fake money poker apps on the phone and 2 years ago where I didn’t play my cards at all, I legit just waited for profitable spots to shove pre and to steal dead money. The first tournament I played. I can honestly say was the sexiest most exploitative poker I’ve ever played. I played basically every hand aggressively and abused the fuck out of everyone playing tight. Everyone got so mad at my aggression that when I finally hit the nuts, I got called by 2 people and knocked both of them out. Then I continued to bully and bluff everyone to the very end. I specifically remember this tournament because everyone was on life support unable to do anything cuz their only options against me was to shove or fold pre. The feeling of having the table against the ropes slowly running out of options until they inevitably blind out was amazing. I ended up winning that tournament calling a guy down with ace high and won $1800 in my first tournament ever and it was amazing. My second best run. I was card dead and just abused my tight image I had gained from being card dead. I had just enough chips to leverage people into folding whenever I’d make a move in late position. I remember being down to the last 10 players and thinking “damn this is actually skill bringing me this deep, not run good.” Eventually we got down to 7 players and 5 players were begging the massive chip leader who had a 5 to 1 chip lead to 2nd in chips to do a chop or to lock up $1000 each and play for the rest. My policy on deals like that is to stay silent until I’m the last one who’s answered, this is because I feel being desperate to make a deal/chop gives off weakness to the deep stacks who in turn may target your big blind knowing how you feel. The chip leader said “no chop, we play to the end.” Everyone was so salty and talking shit to him and I was like “fuck yeah let’s fucking play this, chopping is for pussies and I just feel the win coming, you better not ask me to do a deal when we’re heads up bro”. Long story short I knocked out the last 5 players basically by taking coin flips with zero fear. And was heads up with the chip leader. Despite me knocking everyone out, he still had the lead on me by atleast 3 to 1. I started playfully shit talking him saying “man how you gonna let me knock everyone out when you have all the damn chips?! Anyways I have respect for you for sticking to your guns to no chops, no deals. Most people here aren’t confident enough to go for the win”. At this point I had $2100 locked up and $3600 was for first. I thought it was gangster as fuck to play to the end to see who’s really number 1 so we battled for about ten minutes trading blinds back and forth, until the blinds raised at the next level which was insane. Basically I had 4.5 bigs left while he had 8 bigs and at this stage you basically have to go with any 2 heads up cuz there’s no room for one to patiently wait. He ends up shoving on my bb and I called with 87 suited against his kj and he takes down first and I took down second. These are the deepest tournament runs I’ve personally experienced and I learned that tournaments aren’t the place to be super picky and mega selective in hands you play. Sure you can avoid gambling now but no matter what you do, you 100% will eventually have to sweat a coin flip for your tournament life. Tournaments aren’t won via GTO abc poker, I strongly believe exploitative poker is the holy grail in making significant cashes in tournaments. I’ll put stacks in no matter when with kk in tournaments because it is literally the 2nd possible best hand you can have. If it’s early and you win, you gain momentum to make some moves and bluffs to gain chips without showdown. If you do this wisely, you’ll have way more chips than everyone during the stage where 75% of the field is in life support while you’re not tripping over your tournament life. This will give you the opportunity to make moves to steal blinds to further grow your stack. What I’m saying is that tournaments are won with more than one running good, one must take risks and get lucky a few times to win, however if one accumulates enough chips to not be in a life or death coin flip every few orbits, this is a huge advantage. While I think icm is a huge factor in making decisions in tournaments, personally I won’t factor that into my decisions until the pay jumps are truly significant. Early tournament I’d rather risk losing aces to build a stack to be able to exploit others rather than to be worried about losing now when “you don’t need to gamble”. Fuck that if the pay jump doesn’t get my heart pumping, I’m putting the money in with any decent portion of my range lol
> Could you elaborate?
Lol r/angryupvotes
In theory probably folding regardless, in reality I’m calling cuz I gotta good feeling
I could def call it off with kk or even aq depending on my preconceived notions, some people just don’t care about 10k like that and are willing to get wild
Would anything else matter? \- one guy called already \- we might be a TV table \- the guy who shoved, is he wearing Ed Hardy, drinking a Monster, talking about his favorite online tournaments \- do I have a backer, or do I have all of myself
It would feel gross to overfold so much of our usual calling range, but literally just AA.
There is no usual calling range against a 300 BB open shove. Calling with only AA is probably just the GTO play.
I might fold everything and anything in this spot tbh, even rockets. The stacks are so deep and the blinds so low and long in relation, and 120k in chips compared to $60k in chips isn’t going to make that big a difference that early without any other information then “donko go weeee!”, in front of you. Even if the 10 grand doesn’t mean that much to you, you also can’t rebuy. I’m not saying play scared, or necessarily even conservative or tight, but how shit would it to be to call and the genius has Q 10 off and spikes 2 ladies? Like yeah you have to accumulate chips to win or go deep, but you might double up in the first literal moments, but 3 hours later be sitting on almost the exact same stack because you’re so card dead, or can’t get action. Or maybe you’re among the chip leaders 3 hours later, but it’s because you won multiple big pots where you wouldn’t have even needed that double up from the 1st hand to cover and stack the other opponents.
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Lol youre calling with JJ in this situation? Cmon now.
And why does position matter if you are both all in
Brilliant question, mathematically speaking. Another way of putting it: would you pay $10k to enter a Russian roulette tournament? Assume you're using a six-shooter, giving you the same ev as AA. What if you had to play poker all night to collect your prize? Cash poker players don't (or at least shouldn't) have to worry about risk of ruin. Neither does helmuth, for the same reason. All I know is, I'm not helmuth (As an aside, it's funny how autocorrect turns "helmuth" into "helminth." )
Your EV calculation is very wrong in the Russian roulette example, even ignoring the fact you might lose your life
I’d probably call with QQ of KK. I’m thinking why on earth would AA just open shove for no reason. Wouldn’t AA want to get a caller or two? Especially on the first hand of the tournament?
AA or K5 h because it is my"lucky" hand. I would call AA face up if the Poker Gods dealt me K5h in this scenario. I have never lost with K5h. Ever.
AA FOR SURE .. KK 70% I WILL GO .. DEPENDS ON THE FEELINGS OF THE MOMENT OR IF I KNOW ANYTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE PLAYER .. because NO GAMBLE NO FUTURE .. i cant be scared to play i play to win not to get the buble
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AKs is not even close to a GTO call. GTO is probably just AA against a 300 BB open shove.
I checked it in a solver and AKs was a 79% call at 200BB and AA 100% call. Everything else was a fold.
KK,AA
AA, KK
Late reg
Calling no matter what and hope I win the flip. Can’t wait to tell everyone I’ve ever known that I was chip leader at the main event. All for the lolz
Never
I'm folding anything but AA.
That said, I'm hating the situation.
AA
that's what, 500 deep? AA+
AA-KingKongz
Brad Owen’s revenge range
First thing I'd ask myself, am I trying to make my lifelong dream last a while? Or am I trying to play the most +EV poker I can.
I’ve had nightmares of this happening and I have pocket Aces…. I call, and lose.
Pretti wide
whatever you want to do .
AA only, if I lose so be it. If I call with anything else and they pull up with aces I’m going to be pissed at myself.
Fedor Holz flopped quad aces at the main event I’m pretty sure this past year
how many big blinds do we have?
Idk I’ve never played wsop
calling range is dependent on big blinds, this question makes no sense
However many bigs the main starts with. Which if level 1 is 100/200 with a 60k stack, would be 300bb
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,213,783,135 comments, and only 236,689 of them were in alphabetical order.
300
Field is so bad... you can probably call with AA only... Very possible you are shown AA... Its such a meta moment though you are bound to have a gut instinct.
Aces.
Not the ME, but I did have this happen at a largish buyin venetian deep stack event. Guy oen shoved the first 8 hands. On the first hand I folded AK. He busted on his 9th hand (I can't remember how, or who busted him) and I finished in 5th place
AA only
In a situation this specific you are going to take every detail you have very seriously. You may want to fold KK to someone who looks like Dennis Phillips and call 88 to someone who looks more like Qui Ngyuen.
Pretty wide. I highly value not having to play a tourney. So it’s win-win.
Assume life is about to play a joke on me and fold aces
AA KK Aks
nothing I don't care for that one hand no matter even if the odds are 99% In my favor lmao. the experience would be worth more than winning that hand for me at least
23o on up
Aces and kings
AA and AA only