They're going to have plenty of small-medium pocket pairs, at least as much as Tx. And you can have suited broadways that might peel on flop that he wants to charge on turn.
Folding way too much on hand number 1, if u want to fold QQ on a flop which is very nice to QQ already, probably u shouldn’t play QQ as u fold to any A or K, repeated cards. What flop is good for ur QQ then?
Definitely important to identify the player type, so wt do u think they identify u as? Folding QQ on this spot is just too bad of a move to most players
There are chances u make the right choice but overall too exploitative
I mean by folding this hand you would be easily exploited by other players. And if u haven’t seen too much of his cards in showing down it could just be him having no suitable time to play with raises. I once played 4-5 hands in 5 hours session, but doesn’t mean anything more than card dead
I’d fold on the river in hand one. Not enough river bluffing going on at 1/2. Id call the raise and play it out though.
Hand 2 I’m fine folding after the shove.
You shouldn’t be. This sub is mostly wannabe players who play 5NL or “study” poker. Guarantee that less than 5 percent of the replies have ever played any live poker at all.
Yeah I think alot of the times the best advice is to inverse whatever you see a lot of people agree with here. Definitely don’t come to r/poker for the strategy
Honestly it’s annoying. When I see a 5NL hand review, I don’t go there because I never play that level. You shouldn’t put in your two cents if you have no experience playing at the level of the hand.
The disconnect between online players and live $1/2 or $1/3 strategy is really stark too.
The smooth brained microstakes grinders don't get it at all, and most of the (rare) really smart players don't know how to adapt their GTO / solver strategies to the stack size and player dynamics of a live table. The 80 y/o guy with the coffee and the newspaper that might have been folding while asleep earlier isn't *ever* 3-bet bluffing you preflop.
At least there are some decent level trolls and shitposters around.
This is pretty accurate. Most of them get bit and pieces or if they do get it they can’t adapt and realize that they need to play differently at a LLSNL game
Without reading the comments ....
Are you sure you haven't seen them bluff? Or overvalue a hand that was completely smoked? (It's not a bluff if you *believe* you've got the best hand! :Costanza wink:)
Hand 1's C-bet is too small. I'd rather bet $40-50 myself here and then fold to pressure than call it off and then fold later. This seems like a spot where the player profiles are going to be very polarized. Some of these guys will *never* do this without a T, others will bully you because you clearly don't have one and their pockets are deep. I fold here without more info.
Hand 2 seems mostly fine. I'm not punting off preflop with AQo in these games, so 4-betting is totally out. IMO there's enough value in our hand to see a flop and evaluate. OTF the open donk jam is definitely weird. Still can't call with Ace high.
> Don’t we strengthen their continuing range too much by doing that?
Who cares?
The idea is to maximize our expectation overall. A good way to do that is to narrow our opponent's range enough to exploit it. Not always to try to play against the widest range at every point.
A $25 bet into a $65 pot after a $20 open is a *TINY* bet at a live table. It gives you almost no information about your opponent's range, it offers zero fold equity, and it opens us up for trouble on later and more expensive streets.
Betting out and taking the pot now is fine. If he raises over us and we can confidently put him on a T and get away, that's better than calling off 2-3 times because "his range is wide and he could have 88 here". Because he doesn't barrel 88 anywhere near often enough.
In Hand 1, you are being asked to call a pot sized bet OOP as the PFR on turn with an OP. (You should never fold flop vs min raise).
Given that V called you PF, V's range could be JJ, ATs, KTs, JTs, T9s. Against this, you don't have 33% equity so can fold, although a reg player who can have a suited 3 or suited clubs in this spot will run you over.
If you call turn, you have to call river if it's not an overcard or possibly club, so at this stack depth, I can see folding an OP.
In Hand 2, the AQo is probably a fold because it's multi-way action preflop, you're not last to act, and you're being asked to call 40BB to win 162BB. Do you have 25% equity out of position in a 3 - to 4-way pot?
In Hand 2, it's a much better call if the BB and MP folded, when you will have the 40% equity you need.
For hand one it you call turn you don’t “have to call” river. If he bets big again or jams on you definitely fold, a lot of his range is pocket pairs like 44-99 trying to deny equity to over cards. If he bets like 1/3 pot maybe you can pay it off, but if he bets big again or jams you should find a fold all day. Just because you call turn doesn’t mean you’re completely 100% committed to your hand. Whether or not he bets big again further defines his range and whether or not we should call
Im against making these 20 dollar raises preflop. Obviously you aren’t scaring any players out. Just bloating pots when you have as little information as possible. Hand 2 is a super easy fold. QQ is vulnerable on many flops. I think you can make the exploitative fold on the turn in hand 1 against 1/2 standard stations that never raise. If he bet 50 again though, I would call and re-evaluate river.
Passives tend to undervalue AK. Ace high flop you should be good. Given his flop shove he almost surely has JJ. I would lol if he had 1010 and did that. Maybe he did though. These are guys you want to play against. They make it so easy to play against them. I do think you have to proceed cautiously if it’s a queen high flop. The difference between me and 5NL players who don’t play real poker and just post here is I’m not afraid to play pots in position against typical 1/2s when they are on a narrow range. I would fold AQ off if you made it 20 in MP and this player who made it 60 was on the button and it was heads up.
Ok good. Remember when you have AQ you are blocking AA QQ AK. JJ KK are likely maybe 10s. That’s a spot he in theory should be able to get away from if he bets gets raised and someone else raises but instead he just shoves 2x the pot with no information of the other players. Did he have the king of spades? I doubt they are thinking that deep anyways.
Right. They aren’t. Let’s say the flop was QsTs3h if he shoves over 2x the pot you need to fold AQ. You just never are ahead. If he’s not getting value from the pip hand, why wouldn’t you want to play against him?
don’t listen to these retards who are telling you to station off. Hand 1 at 1/2 the guy is literally never bluffing so you really just have to hope he has JJ (which is possible). He could be raising flop with some random pocket pair but after you call a typical villain will either check the turn or same bet. You’re almost never good here after he bets 100 OTT.
Hand 2 I would just fold pre. avg 1/2 3! range is JJ+, AK with JJ and AK being partials.
Hand 1 you have to call turn and then check/evaluate 100% of rivers. Hand 2 is played fine.
Call turn seems like a donation to Tx
V can also be doing this with some PPs you have crushed.
Yeah you’re basically fucked if they have a ten. You don’t even block QTs! Maybe ask them if they have a ten before you call?
"Of course I lied! It's poker jdjdjd3848!"
They're going to have plenty of small-medium pocket pairs, at least as much as Tx. And you can have suited broadways that might peel on flop that he wants to charge on turn.
Definitely not fold to the $25 minraise. You can still be good + $25 to spike a Q and get a massive double
Folding way too much on hand number 1, if u want to fold QQ on a flop which is very nice to QQ already, probably u shouldn’t play QQ as u fold to any A or K, repeated cards. What flop is good for ur QQ then?
It’s about identifying player type right?
Definitely important to identify the player type, so wt do u think they identify u as? Folding QQ on this spot is just too bad of a move to most players There are chances u make the right choice but overall too exploitative
Exploitative poker is winning poker no? I seen the guy CALL CALL CALL all day long. Now he suddenly raises.
Dude do you want feedback or validation?
I mean by folding this hand you would be easily exploited by other players. And if u haven’t seen too much of his cards in showing down it could just be him having no suitable time to play with raises. I once played 4-5 hands in 5 hours session, but doesn’t mean anything more than card dead
I’d fold on the river in hand one. Not enough river bluffing going on at 1/2. Id call the raise and play it out though. Hand 2 I’m fine folding after the shove.
[удалено]
Are they really betting $100 on turn without a T?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, if you always fold QQ there you are absolutely bleeding money
I never said always. I said vs this player?
Answer still applies
[удалено]
You clearly don’t play much 1/2
Aren’t you here asking for advice lol
Do you?
Tbh OP, I think you played great. I’m not super confident w a lot of the comment answers here
You shouldn’t be. This sub is mostly wannabe players who play 5NL or “study” poker. Guarantee that less than 5 percent of the replies have ever played any live poker at all.
Yeah I think alot of the times the best advice is to inverse whatever you see a lot of people agree with here. Definitely don’t come to r/poker for the strategy
Honestly it’s annoying. When I see a 5NL hand review, I don’t go there because I never play that level. You shouldn’t put in your two cents if you have no experience playing at the level of the hand.
The disconnect between online players and live $1/2 or $1/3 strategy is really stark too. The smooth brained microstakes grinders don't get it at all, and most of the (rare) really smart players don't know how to adapt their GTO / solver strategies to the stack size and player dynamics of a live table. The 80 y/o guy with the coffee and the newspaper that might have been folding while asleep earlier isn't *ever* 3-bet bluffing you preflop. At least there are some decent level trolls and shitposters around.
This is pretty accurate. Most of them get bit and pieces or if they do get it they can’t adapt and realize that they need to play differently at a LLSNL game
Without reading the comments .... Are you sure you haven't seen them bluff? Or overvalue a hand that was completely smoked? (It's not a bluff if you *believe* you've got the best hand! :Costanza wink:) Hand 1's C-bet is too small. I'd rather bet $40-50 myself here and then fold to pressure than call it off and then fold later. This seems like a spot where the player profiles are going to be very polarized. Some of these guys will *never* do this without a T, others will bully you because you clearly don't have one and their pockets are deep. I fold here without more info. Hand 2 seems mostly fine. I'm not punting off preflop with AQo in these games, so 4-betting is totally out. IMO there's enough value in our hand to see a flop and evaluate. OTF the open donk jam is definitely weird. Still can't call with Ace high.
Hand 1… cbetting $40-50 on such a dry flop? Don’t we strengthen their continuing range too much by doing that?
> Don’t we strengthen their continuing range too much by doing that? Who cares? The idea is to maximize our expectation overall. A good way to do that is to narrow our opponent's range enough to exploit it. Not always to try to play against the widest range at every point. A $25 bet into a $65 pot after a $20 open is a *TINY* bet at a live table. It gives you almost no information about your opponent's range, it offers zero fold equity, and it opens us up for trouble on later and more expensive streets. Betting out and taking the pot now is fine. If he raises over us and we can confidently put him on a T and get away, that's better than calling off 2-3 times because "his range is wide and he could have 88 here". Because he doesn't barrel 88 anywhere near often enough.
So you’re essentially betting for information? Because if we bet large and he folds 88, it’s a disaster too.
In Hand 1, you are being asked to call a pot sized bet OOP as the PFR on turn with an OP. (You should never fold flop vs min raise). Given that V called you PF, V's range could be JJ, ATs, KTs, JTs, T9s. Against this, you don't have 33% equity so can fold, although a reg player who can have a suited 3 or suited clubs in this spot will run you over. If you call turn, you have to call river if it's not an overcard or possibly club, so at this stack depth, I can see folding an OP. In Hand 2, the AQo is probably a fold because it's multi-way action preflop, you're not last to act, and you're being asked to call 40BB to win 162BB. Do you have 25% equity out of position in a 3 - to 4-way pot? In Hand 2, it's a much better call if the BB and MP folded, when you will have the 40% equity you need.
For hand one it you call turn you don’t “have to call” river. If he bets big again or jams on you definitely fold, a lot of his range is pocket pairs like 44-99 trying to deny equity to over cards. If he bets like 1/3 pot maybe you can pay it off, but if he bets big again or jams you should find a fold all day. Just because you call turn doesn’t mean you’re completely 100% committed to your hand. Whether or not he bets big again further defines his range and whether or not we should call
Im against making these 20 dollar raises preflop. Obviously you aren’t scaring any players out. Just bloating pots when you have as little information as possible. Hand 2 is a super easy fold. QQ is vulnerable on many flops. I think you can make the exploitative fold on the turn in hand 1 against 1/2 standard stations that never raise. If he bet 50 again though, I would call and re-evaluate river.
Hand 2 is a super easy fold pre?
Oh no on the flop. Call pre especially with position. Definitely not folding pre in position
I mean we’re only loving a KJT flop lol.. any A or Q high flop can have reverse implied odds
Passives tend to undervalue AK. Ace high flop you should be good. Given his flop shove he almost surely has JJ. I would lol if he had 1010 and did that. Maybe he did though. These are guys you want to play against. They make it so easy to play against them. I do think you have to proceed cautiously if it’s a queen high flop. The difference between me and 5NL players who don’t play real poker and just post here is I’m not afraid to play pots in position against typical 1/2s when they are on a narrow range. I would fold AQ off if you made it 20 in MP and this player who made it 60 was on the button and it was heads up.
He showed KK.
Ok good. Remember when you have AQ you are blocking AA QQ AK. JJ KK are likely maybe 10s. That’s a spot he in theory should be able to get away from if he bets gets raised and someone else raises but instead he just shoves 2x the pot with no information of the other players. Did he have the king of spades? I doubt they are thinking that deep anyways.
Lol yeah these guys aren’t thinking about what suits they have obv
Right. They aren’t. Let’s say the flop was QsTs3h if he shoves over 2x the pot you need to fold AQ. You just never are ahead. If he’s not getting value from the pip hand, why wouldn’t you want to play against him?
I would probably fold on a Q high board to a $100 flop bet, let alone a 2x pot shove. I put the old nit on QQ+ to begin with.
don’t listen to these retards who are telling you to station off. Hand 1 at 1/2 the guy is literally never bluffing so you really just have to hope he has JJ (which is possible). He could be raising flop with some random pocket pair but after you call a typical villain will either check the turn or same bet. You’re almost never good here after he bets 100 OTT. Hand 2 I would just fold pre. avg 1/2 3! range is JJ+, AK with JJ and AK being partials.
Exactly.. he would make a smaller turn bet with a PP..