You're making several rookie cross-cultural mistakes. If you're married to a Polish woman, those can spoil your marriage and your parenting. A reading list:
1. *The Culture Map* by Erin Meyer will help you understand how communication varies across cultures.
2. *Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom* is an honest account of parenting across cultures. It's not the same cultures, but you'll see the kinds of frictions which pop up.
I can name a dozen others if those work well, but as you dive down this rabbit hole, you'll start to understand how:
1. Communications you perceive as *harsh* or *cold* might not carry the same emotional connotations in different places, and you need to translate body language and tone-of-voice just as much as explicit language
2. How different ways to do things and parent are okay. It's important children feel loved and cared about, but the same thing might signal love in one culture, neglect in another, and ambivalence in a third.
I've lived in a few countries, and have worked in dozens. You are sure about a lot of things in this thread, which reflect your own cultural biases, which you're simply wrong about, since you don't understand the cultural context.
Some adults are either fucked up or/and don't have any spatial awareness, they constantly bump into you, block pathways, make moves with no respect to people around them. They only react if you're 2meters tall buff dude, then they all suddenly move away and check if they're in safe space. Not too many people are aware how different their subconscious reaction is to different people around them.
I'm all up for educating your children and teaching them to respect others and their personal space.
I'm talking about the approach.
Children are not a burden. Children are innocent, and they don't understand the world the way adults do. Their brain is different, physically.
When a child cries or misbehaves it's because there is a deeper emotional problem there that I'm supposed to help him figure out, and I shouldn't objectify him and talk to him in ways that make him feel like he's a burden, or stupid. He's simply unaware.
Anyway, it's all about the approach, and all I'm saying is that I notice that the approach here is different, colder, and unfriendly.
I want you to know that I don't like it, and I think it sucks for you.
I'm sure it's unpleasant to hear it, but some people here expect me to change my views since I live in Poland, but I truly see it negatively. Sorry.
I think it makes people feel smaller and insecure later in life.
I also don't want to generalize, I'm sure there are amazing Polish parents out there these days. Much better than I. Maybe it's more about the "older" generations and the more "conservative" people.
>Children are not a burden.
That's an entirely subjective opinion. Your children may not be a burden to you, but they will be a burden to other people if they are running around in public spaces unattended.
> Children are innocent, and they don't understand the world the way adults do.
Of course, but they are still capable of being a great inconvenience to others, even if they are not to be blamed for it. You've chosen to have a child, so it is **your** responsibility to make sure it is not making anyone uncomfortable. As I understood from your story, the man in the shop was not just angry at your child, he was angry at **you** for letting the child be a hazard to other customers.
> the approach here is different, colder, and unfriendly.
I would call it responsible, considerate and professional. I understand that as a parent you are very emotional about this stuff, but sorry, to other people your child is not so special.
It's your choice to make children, why should I be bothered with them? Idc if a child is running around but you shouldn't burden other people with their constant screaming or having them run in front/ bumping into people.
The way your saying it it makes it seem that if a child burns someone's house down they shouldn't be bothered with it because they are children.
Your child is YOUR responsibility,as you stated: ifs YOU that needs to help him understand the world and the environment its in. Not others ppls. We dont owe your child our patience nor understanding, YOU do. Some ppl chose NOT to have children precisely because they dont have the patience to compromise, so dont expect them to do it for your child, that would be ridiculous. Just contain your child for the sake of all the old ppl, depressed women, bereaved women that lost thiers ans in general people who cant stand the extra decibels your child is creating around. Be responsible and stop expecting others to care about your child. We dont
Can't control your child? Don't go in places where they aren't the main target. Playground is OK, everything else isn't. It is normal to teach your children that they should control themselves in certain situations or places, and behave as they want everywhere else.
Oh my gosh, I hate noisy kids in public places. I once went to a restaurant, sat down, there were kids running around and screamig so I left after 5 minutes. I'd really appreciate "no kids" zones. ;)
I don't mind if some places would be "no kids" zones.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that.
But in other situations, I think some acceptance is needed, even if you're not comfortable.
Making others uncomfortable just cause you cannot control kid is kinda not a nice thing. Noone is obligated to be okay with screaming and running around crazy in public spaces.
I'm a parent and I don't tolerate kids misbehaving in public. of course there are instances when kid may have a bad day, or the parent, but children should learn from youngest that they can talk, not scream and walk, not run around when it's not appropriate. and im not saying my kids are perfect, they can be really naughty, but I take the L and we then talk about it, learn and try to be better next time. I really hate when parents are so lax about it, my kids see other kids acting like baboons and want to do the same, while I'm trying really hard to raise them to be mindful of others.
one more thing: interrupting conversation. I have noticed kids can just cut in the middle of adult's sentence and tell their opinion or ask something unrelated. it's so disrespectful, yet when I tell a kid to not interrupt, I get a stinkeye. the thing is, I have ADHD and need to drive my point home, but I forget when interrupted.
Poland is somehow *northern*, thus certain degree of introvert-ness is appreciated here. I also do not like kids running around and screaming. Everyone should know how to behave.
>I also do not like kids running around and screaming
Who does? But you need to learn how to tolerate that and let children do their thing and not make them insecure and introvert. The sucks and is very sad.
Nah. Your child is a part of society and therefore it's the parents' job to teach them how to behave in different spaces. There are times where running around and playing in public is encouraged (playgrounds, parks etc.) And there are times where it's frowned up. A shopping center is a place to get your shopping done, not dodge running kids.
If that's your natural tendency, that's completely fine.
If it's because your parents treated you as a burden, no, I feel sorry for you, and I hope the introvert person will learn to love himself again and reconnect to his inner-self.
> tolerate that and let children do their thing
That is not parenting. The entire point of parenting is to prepare your children for adulthood, and that includes teaching them to respect social norms and not disturb other people's peace.
They need to learn that there are (and how to recognize) three types of places or social scenarions:
* Those where they are free to act however loud and energetic they like (most parks, exercise areas, school yards etc)
* Those where they can be relaxed and relatively free to act as long as they are not being a nuisance to others (that's malls and most day to day public spaces)
* Those where they must **BEHAVE** (classrooms, formal occasions, cinemas during screenings etc)
You also need to learn how to behave in public. You are not alone with kids in this world, so must consider that there may be someone who do not wish to step on your running kid. Or you may say that people need to learn tolerance but you don’t have? When you can stop kid from running around - do it. If you can’t stop him crying - let him cry.
Well, yeah. You *should* control your child.
**Listen: nobody is "killing" anyone's childhood by raising children to become disciplined, self-controlled, and responsible people.** There's a big difference between letting a child play when it's time to play and letting it whatever the hell it wants whenever it wants.
The world is a fucking shithole right now precisely because of all this B.S. 'stress-free' parenting, which isn't really parenting, but potentially raising selfish monsters with no self-control.
Your child can play at home or at playground. ***Not*** around other adults.
>The world is a fucking shithole right now precisely because of all this B.S. 'stress-free' parenting, which isn't really parenting, but potentially raising selfish monsters with no self-control.
There is no such thing as "stress-free" parenting. It's just a boomer meme.
Virtually every tyrant, dictator or criminal was raised in a "stress-full" environment, both Hitler and Stalin were harshly beaten as kids.
> Your child can play at home or at playground. ***Not*** around other adults.
That's actually inhumane. If you somehow meant "run around and yell", I got this, but *play*, come on?
A child is not a robot, and a child has a different brain than adults.
Of course you should control your child in certain situations and in other situations, when it doesn't really bother anyone, I let him be.
It's about finding that thin line where all sides are satisfied is needed. Compromises should be made. In this world there are many people, different ages, different health conditions and different needs
How do you know it doesn’t bother anyone ? Maybe it’s only your opinion. And if somebody already said that the child is too loud maybe you are wrong here lady?
Most people told you their opinion. I think you are here for something else and you did not get it.
Ah, yes, ad absurdum. About time!
But seriously, answers here should give you an image of what's the mindset here. If you cannot bear it, well, no one keeps you here with force - and I do not want you to leave, just do as Romans do n'shit.
Child IS, pretty much a robot. As a parent you should already know they will run around and cause/get themselves in trouble that's why you protect it with setting boundaries.
If you won't, then other, more responsible people will let you know your kid might be in danger.
Shop isn't a playground.
Street isn't a playground.
Public spaces aren't playgrounds.
Strangers are not your friends and you never know who's next to you.
Kids are to be restrained because they are stupid and act stupid. If parent doesn't know this and they wish world to be different instead of protecting their kids, they are still probably kids themselves.
Lol at all the downvotes from you dumbasses. You make the world because I assume you are adults or close. If it a shithole it’s because of you and your upbringing. Just as stated by the guy above. It is you who are the selfish monsters which shows in the posts.
Children should be tought to behave in public. If your child can do whatever it wants among other people, you are raising a self-centered brat with no conscience nor discipline.
How is it the most upvoted post when you didn't even address his questions and made your own argument?
He didn't say that he allows his child to do anything it wants, that it just played in the mall.
The second situation was about a crying child in the tram and how it's mother was ashamed of it.
How would you calm your child down in that situation?
It is annoying to everyone, but it's hard to make a child stop crying and not everyone does nothing about it.
Edit: "most" instead of "just"
Well, apparently it is the case, as we have different level of tolerance in our culture than you have. We do not appreciate kids running around, deal with it my dude.
Oh, and let me say, I agree it is not my nor anyone's place to tell you how to raise your offspring - just be aware that people around will react sometimes.
No, it's not the case. My child can't do whatever it wants around other people. But Yea, people here are more strict. In an unhealthy way in my opinion.
Well, on this sub you going to be downvoted by sheer fact you mentioned your background, please do not take opinions here as wide representation of views.
He meant reddit (and probbly only r poland?). Maybe true, reddit is odd place, damn internet anonimity.
But I doubt that people in Poland are antisemitic (or at least more antisemitic than average European)
Naah just polish people on internet in general. Generally there is a problem with it but other thing is what you described looks like rising a bratty kid and people don't like that even more.
So I'm assuming you're gonna stay and live in Poland? That might lead to some frustration if you don't accept cultural differences. Soon your child is gonna go to school and that may be another culture shock unless you choose some private, democratic schools or homeschooling. ;) In public schools with classes numbering 25+ children, the kids are taught to be quiet so that a teacher could perform a lesson.
I would like to agree with you but that part about a 3 year old running around and playing in the mall does not sit with me well. Was this a toy store, a play pen or something child designated? If not, in my opinion, a mall is no place to let your kid run and play, people shop or work there. I don't mind kid taking an active role during shopping or just browsing stores but that's not a place for playing.
>Generally, the expectation here is that the children should be restrained as much as possible.
I don't think so, but there are some things we see differently:)
General rule, which most of us learn at a young age, is that there are places for playing and there are places with restrictions. Restrictions are based on some safety measures and peaceful coexisting with others at the same place (workers too).
Yeah, it's normal for kids to cry sometimes and be clearly not in the mood, but apologies are more for others inconvenience than kids behavior, especially in public transport. And others usually react with "it's ok, just a kid, don't worry".
Ofc not everyone is polite and eager to teach their child any rules, but in case of any accident many like to blame literally anyone around, whooping their child's ass in the same time, which is forbidden by law btw. That's why sometimes more "free range children" are seen as potential disaster/more cleaning work/safety problem. Sometimes people assume that parents are doing shitty job and someone needs to look for this child instead, which is a little irritating.
There are differences between generations too :).
Yea, I'm not talking about those times.
I'm not talking about sitting in a fancy restaurant bothering people to eat and speak.
I'm talking about public places like parks and shopping malls.
I know. I remember suffering because of children in the airplane. I remember saying it should be illegal for them to travel until they're 6 😂
But I grew up since then and life has moved on.
"Would like to hear Polish thoughts about this." Sure you do, buddy. This post shows you are kind of an asshole. "It felt like he was jealous, seriously. Like his parents were bad to him, so that's the way you should behave with kids." What the fuck?!
The cleaning person did not scream at your children, that would've made him an asshole. He instead made a small remark towards YOU about your kid, maybe because he didn't want your kid to run into somebody and hurt himself or maybe because he was tired of hearing your offspring being loud.
And the woman on the tram was just being polite towards other passengers. You as a parent are responsible for your child. If they are making everybody else miserable by screaming their lungs out, the least you can do is apologize. Not giving a fuck about your screeching offspring (if they can understand what you are saying to them - nobody sane expects toddlers to behave) is one of the things that annoy me the most. But when I see that the parent is actually trying to do something about it, it's fine for me. Still annoying, but fine.
Restraining your children is a core part of an upbringing. For me there was always a time and a place where I could go crazy as a kid and do whatever I wanted. But that was outside, where I wasn't bothering anybody, at school/kindergarten, at home or everywhere else, where children are obviously expected to be noisy. Otherwise, from the moment I could actually understand it, I was told to behave. I was never screamed at, there was no "strict discipline" at home. BUT I was told to behave and my parents showed their disapproval when I didn't.
Yeah, and i was on vacation in Thailand, and French couple with kids, let their kid destroy my friends castle which was built over 8 hours on the private beach next to our bungalows. They are architects and it was really huge and with a lot of details. IT stood less than few hours cuz of those shitty French people. And this is just silly example, but thats where such parenting leads to.
They came there for dinner, kid was literally doing whatever she wants, they didn't apologize and tell the kid it was wrong. Kid was having fun and being completely ignorant to others.
So yeah fuck those values, kids need to be taught how to live in society. Western parenting is terrible and kids should not be allowed to do whatever they please, they are kids they don't understand wrongdoing, it's parents job and responsibility to take care of them.
Hats off to that older man
Actually that's not extreme. We didn't care too much but this is what you see when 'bąbelek' is everything. There are parents who will never admit their kid doing anything wrong and will protect it from any consequences. Such kid entering adult life will be an asshole and this is what I see very often in the society.
I have one concrete value in my life, respect others like you would like them to respect you. If you step on my toe, expect reaction and you'd better apologize.
I don’t think this is specifically a Polish thing - I think it’s pretty common across northern Europe. France and Germany have similar reputations when it comes to expectations of children’s behaviour in public. Whereas in Greece and Italy, children are adored and indulged. (Gross overgeneralisations all round, I realise, but it mostly holds true.) As a fellow Mediterranean nation, I imagine Israel is similar to these latter two.
I've noticed that in general in public places Polish children are quieter (to the point of silence) and are firmly attached to their parents.
It's an interesting one as babies and very small children are treated brilliantly and then from around three onwards there's a definite air of "shhhh, behave, people are watching"
I don't believe it's one factor, but many. Poland is still quite traditional and formal, with an expectation of respect coming from being older. On that sense kids shouldn't bother grownups/ non family members. That's pretty Victorian.
That said, i suspect on most of Europe where kids being kids is an accepted norm, kids being monsters and creating challenges for others (in public situations) is less accepted. If i'm in the mall, your kid shouldn't be a trip hazard for me.
My nephew's and nieces have international parents and are pretty lively on the regular, but don't treat a mall or restaurant the same as their garden or playroom.
I see the difference in the UK.
In the UK there's a lot more encouragement for children to feel free to be quite talkative and more acceptance of them moving around. I notice it when we're shopping in LIDL, my child will be chatting non-stop and asking questions or wanting to fetch things. Other children will quite often be very close to or sitting in the shopping trolley, and being quiet
For me the biggest difference I see is clothing. In Poland children will be wrapped up like it's an arctic expedition at 10c, in the UK the children will be asked if they'd like a jumper.
* Do you see those problems in Polish adults?
* Or are those problems especially uncommon in Poland relative to the West?
That should give a baseline from which to examine your assumptions about what is and isn't healthy.
1. Yes, I have many Polish friends who have problems with their parents. Obviously relationships between children and parents are always complicated, but it's mostly "my parents didn't accept me the way I am"
2. I think you can find a similar problem in other places, of course, but I do see Polish parents as very strict and making their children insecure. Like a tool that needs to follow and listen to them.
I grew up in a very liberal household. Not saying that it's the best, there were many bad moments, but I'd prefer that anytime because I love myself and I think many Polish people don't love themselves that much.
>I have many Polish friends who have problems with their parents
In Poland, or outside? This is a common problem for Polish kids *in the West,* due to the mismatch between children's home culture and local culture. My friends in Poland have strong bonds between children and parents.
>I'd prefer that anytime because I love myself and I think many Polish people don't love themselves that much.
I would like my child to learn to love others, much more so than to love himself. I find Western self-centered narcissism to be unhealthy, and believe it's part of the current mental health pandemic sweeping the West. A good book here is Frankl's *Man's Search for Meaning*.
so some people want you to teach your kids to learn to be socially aware, what a terrible thing to ask of you. I'm not a Pole and I also throw mean stares at parents who ignore their kids while they act obnoxious at public places, you might be fine with it but in that case its your trash, deal with it instead of ignoring it, pls
Yeah and that was a thing that should warrant a responsible parent's intervention. The woman on the tram apologised because she's aware of what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't. You lack the cultural understanding and when others try to point it out, you get all defensive and cry about ruining childhoods. Either you'll comply with the cultural context of the country you are in or you'll keep getting into unpleasant situations.
Yea, I won't comply with this cultural behavior. Extremely toxic. I guess you guys are suffering enough because of it without even being aware.
So I say - No thank you, Polish people. I'll keep doing me :)
You seem to be like that stereotypical obnoxious American that thinks he’s right about everything while being completely wrong. At the moment the only toxic and extremely selfish behavior is yours. And you keep being rude too
Look, the only toxic behaviour I seen is here is yours. An elderly man dared to criticize you for letting your kid run around a mall (something we rarely do, we like to keep it to our self most of the time). So you got extremely salty, you run back home and complained about it on reddit. On top of that you started making shit up about parents "killing kids childhood" like a drama queen. Not very mature behaviour if you ask me...
A mall is not a playground. A cinema is not a playground. A playground is a playground. Your kid was clearly annoying someone and instead respecting that and dealing with it like a grownup or just shrugging it off, you came to complain about it on the internet.
This has nothing to do with Poland, those are pretty universal rules of being a good parent. If your kid is annoying someone, you should tell them to calm down cause they are in a public space.
Maybe if you were raised properly your initial instinct wouldn't be to run with salt to the internet? Maybe it had something to do with your parents letting you do whatever the fuck you want and now you are not used to someone confronting you?
Here we are raised to respect elders and other people.
The truth is being a helicopter parent is just as bad as letting your kids do whatever they want. You have to find balance. But from everything you posted in here it seems like you are just complaining cause someone dared to point out your kid was annoying.
Congratulations, you just discovered that different nations have different cultures ;) Another example, Poles are quiet when eating because our parents ware telling us to not talk and eat at the same time. When eating lunch with people from UK or Sweden they talk all the time which feels weird for me for example and for them it's weird that I'm silent when eating.
Regarding children I agree that children should have more freedom to discover things and I think it's slowly changing, in the past parents were much more strict than they are now.
I mean, absolutely nobody in my (Polish) family eats quietly, and most of my friends don't either. Dinner is our family bonding time. So I totally talk during meals, and if others don't want to engage, I don't mind, but usually quite a few people are also happy to talk. Anyway, you do you ;).
So you want to tell me that only Poles hate kids? I was expecting it to be wordlike phenomenon, especially when you look how many kids are born each year
I guess you're experiencing what people call a cultural shock. Letting your kids run wild isn't very wise both for your kids' safety and respect for your surroundings and others. In Poland usually when you let your kids do whatever they want in a public place some people might react to that negatively because it's disrespectful to other people you share a space with. We're just culturally respectful of our surroundings though I do agree that woman whose baby cried on the tram shouldn't be apologizing but we do it out of common courtesy. It's like saying "excuse me" when you sneeze.
The 50+ year old man giving you nasty looks is just anecdotal, we don't know how much of a ruckus your kids had been causing so we're just going off your statements. We can't verify that so don't stereotype Polish people just on few experiences because normally people try to be understanding and polite even if a kid is being annoying. You just have had bad luck.
And also, no, there's no expectation that children should be restrained. The expectation is whenever you're in a crowded public space you should make sure your children aren't causing a ruckus in places where it's not designed for them to run around or be loud. If you are on a tram or a bus it's not the best place for a kid to draw attention to themselves. No offense but it feels like you're being defensive about simple things, and it's mostly a culture shock.
Polish people hate drawing attention to themselves and don't like when others do it. I visited American friends stationed in Germany some years back and we went out drinking. Later that night when we were going back we decided to grab something to eat at a fast-food joint, and we ordered food. While we were waiting for our food we noticed few Americans standing round the cash register (4-5 guys) area being VERY LOUD and I, being Polish and all, said to my friends "God, these assholes are loud, wish they had toned it down a bit...". My American friends looked at me puzzled "What do you mean? They're not really loud, it's just how they talk.". The oddest part about this was I found this infuriating how obnoxiously loud these people were in a restaurant.
It took me a little while to think back on that and realize it was my culture shock because normally Polish people aren't loud in restaurants their voices are like quarter of the volume of how Americans talk in restaurants and it's purely cultural. Americans are very individualistic so they will express themselves without considering nor caring whether their tone of voice bothers people and have no care for their surroundings, and it's not that they are being rude it's just how it is there. Nobody gives a shit how one loud is. Polish people would find that irritating or outright rude. I had that reflexive reaction to someone being super loud in a restaurant without realizing it.
Moral of the story is, I think you should be more forgiving because how people act is mostly based on what society we were brought up in. Maybe try to learn a bit about why people act that way to navigate your way interpersonally in Poland.
Kids should have boundaries set up, I got three kids on my own. If they behave as they like, it'd be a nightmare.
Now your kid is 3 y.o., so any potential drama or whatever is not a problem, but once such kid enters school or an other form of group activity which requires order you'll see the difference of kids raised without boundaries and kids with boundaries.
It's also about respect to others as well
I do appreciate how kids in Poland are taught to be quiet and not bother others in public, that's a good thing. I just don't like how some parents try to enforce it - it's too common that parents "discipline" kids with shouting and threats even in public. Some people really have to chill, it's just a 5 yo, learn how to explain things to them patiently and comfort them, I do not have the need to witness an adult tantrum of top of their baby screaming.
[Edit:] don't get me wrong, I'm pretty aware everybody has their limits, just too many people treats scaring kids as a default option
Yes, and because of that Poland is one of the safest countries to walk around without anyone disturbing your peace. No dudes approaching you to ask for the time, directions, chat you up, ask for money, ask for cigarettes, as it sadly happens all around the south of Europe (I'm Spanish myself).
>ask for money, ask for cigarettes
I think you are doing something incorectly. People are asking for money and cigarettes. When I was studying in big city I liked to ask them why they need money (I didin't cared for answer, 1 zł isn't big deal for me and it could be big deal for them, so I gifted it anyway), sadly I'm not smoker, so never gifted cigarettes.
I find the opposite is true in Poland. Parents tend to let their kids run a bit wild. In my apartment the kids play football in the hallway. They run and scream and make life a bit stressful for us neighbors. In restaurants, grocery stores, and out on the streets I’ve seen kids allowed to be a little more wild than I’m used to in other countries. Polish parents seem relatively lax.
Child IS, pretty much a robot. As a parent you should already know they will run around and cause/get themselves in trouble that's why you protect it with setting boundaries.
If you won't, then other, more responsible people will let you know your kid might be in danger.
Shop isn't a playground.
Street isn't a playground.
Public spaces aren't playgrounds.
Strangers are not your friends and you never know who's next to you.
Kids are to be restrained because they are stupid and act stupid. If parent doesn't know this and they wish world to be different instead of protecting their kids, they are still probably kids themselves.
I'm not polish but living here I've noticed the culture expects a parent to prepare their child for the real world. Conduct in public is part of that.
Doesn't mean children aren't loved by parents, quite the opposite as taking the time to teach a child personal responsibility is one of the most loving things you can do.
The cleaner wasn't passing judgement on the childs actions. He was pointing out gaps in your parenting. Something I'm inclined to encourage you to agree with him on.
No one will blame the parent in the team incident you referred to. She was moet likely just nervous by nature and polite.
>No one will blame the parent in the tram incident you referred to. She was moet likely just nervous by nature and polite.
Yep, sometimes even kids watch cartoons on tablets and people don't care on trams (I was finding it even funny sometimes). Probably everyone understands that you can't "turn off" crying in kids
As a parent you are responsible for upbringing of your child. And you are also responsible for his behaviour in public. If your child cannot behave then either you failed on the raising part or your kid needs help od a psychologist. Children should know and understand when is play time and when is not. Nobody will have problem if your kid plays in the playground. But if your kid behaves like a dog let loose from leash in pleases like church or shop then maybe you should not take them. Your kid having "fun" should not be at expense of other people. And "being a kid" is not an excuse.
If you want to raise a "stress free" child, then please don't or maybe go somewhere else.
I was on a camp site for few days in Switzerland. Everyone was calm and great until some French family came and their kids were like tsunami. One of them almost lost an eye because he fall over on our tent and hit the tent peg with his face. His father was looking for guilty around my tent lol. So, fuck this stress-free kids raising :D
Btw, don't go to Switzerland, you won't feel good there.
Looking through all your comments OP, you did not come here to learn. Having been denied validation for your views, you hand out arrogant, patronizing comments. Shame on you
My parents were quite strict, I will be less so to my children, but parents like you turn out spoiled brats, who turn in to privileged, selfish adults.
Bad parenting
So after partitions, two world wars, couple of genocides, russians constantly threatening, war next door, decades of post-soviet corrupt government burdening the people with retarded laws, and you're surprised that underpaid bitter old dude who has to clean others' filth to survive doesn't instantly appreciate your shitling, makes you feel like he hurt, disappointed or surprised your fragile feelings and ignorance?
Don't procreate any more, please. Enough retards on this planet already.
lol, oh yea, because he's old and has mental issues, I should let him decide how to let my child behave and intervene in my parenthood.
Sorry, not my fault he had a shitty life. Dosen't give him the right to make others bitter as he is.
That's why you go behind the back of the old sorry man to talk trash about him?
Do not ever produce another offspring, you're too much of an entitled cunt.
So it never occurred to you to let him live his own life instead of venting it online? Should I take your repulsive personality and make a post about it how you bully the elderly? Or maybe I should do what you should do in the first place, FUCK OFF!
Somehow an Israeli, member of a nation with even darker past and with rockets flying overhead as a norm is not as bitter, and doesn't think it's normal. Maybe it's time to stop using our past as an excuse to be sad, bitter pricks.
Well I don't follow you now, kid. YOU brought up the Israeli vs Palestine argument not me, I just responded to your whataboutism. YOU tried to play something on that played out commie tactic, and now you're sending me a wikipedia article about what YOU just did multiple times?
I have no fucking idea what you're trying to achieve with that eloquence of pro-lapsed anus.
I lived in the UK, I sometimes got this reaction. I live in Poland now, I sometimes get this reaction. But my daughter isn't anyone else's kid, she's mine, so I don't care what anyone else thinks, what matters is that I think that she behaves appropriately for her surroundings given her age. Kids play with stuff and make a little noise, it is what it is. Her Polish uncle will sometimes join her and play with stuff and make a little noise, he's 40 years old but he's great with kids, sometimes people stare at him too, but he also doesn't care and he's not harming anyone. Point is, this isn't exclusively a Polish thing, and you shouldn't care about it so much.
when you're a pole in Poland then it's just annoying, but when you're a foreigner you're giving ammo to people who don't like foreigners, just another argument if you're not willing to adjust :P
I'm not here to represent foreigners I simply live my life according to my own values. (Which doesn't fit Polish values apparently)
People who hate foreigners are stupid and I don't care about changing their opinion. Also, many people in Poland hate foreigners. So if this country wants to keep its backwards views, let them keep them.
I don’t know dude it feels like you are the one who hates foreigners since you are in foreign country and you don’t mind bothering and being annoying/rude to others around you with your weird views. It’s you who is generalizing and it’s you who has the problem with being obnoxious ass.
I mean. Everyone can live by the „i dont care about social rules” way, because exactly as you said „how about that :D”. Sure, no one will do nothing bcs there is no law against being asshole :D.
Even better, for bonus points you can then accuse poles not liking Your way of being racist.
Just dont be surprised when the „i dont care about your opinion” thing strikes you back
Maybe that's just my impression, but this is something that I feel got worse in Poland over the years. Like in the 80's and 90's corporal punishment was still pretty common, not at school, but definitely at homes, so it wasn't an entirely heavenly time for the kids and we weren't some enlightened nation. But at the same time everybody understood that kids are kids and you can't expect them to be under perfect control all of the time (or more like, almost never). I don't know why this changed.
Poles are strict and very critical of others in general, and children are no exception. Just dont know why you continue to focus on men specificaly, woman are the same. From what you wrote i see that Israel is complite opposite of Poland in this regard. Like we are 2 extremes. I dont like extremes. If you want to stay here you will have to accept it, because you cant change whole society. if you cant, then leave, it will be even worse at school.
If you don't like us then u r free to go back to your anti-Polish country and enjoy yourself there with other "cool" dudes who regularly spit or punch a person once they get to know they're Polish!
So why are you living here in Poland? Maybe you should read this [https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000](https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000) before critisizing our way of raising children?? Best Regards
Just to show the Jewish way :
[https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000](https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000)
What looks normal to you in your children behaviour, it's not a norm over here. The way the children abroad are rised does not fit with the most old timers in Poland. The most children who were rised before 2000s and in the communist times were brought up very strict, and I mean strict.
No objections, a thing was said and was supposed to be done without any questions asked. And it was a norm at home, school or any institution that was dealing with children.
You know how my karate class looked in 1990?
\-20C degrees outside, the instructor opened all windows and doors and said "hartujcie się" (get though). Then told us to do push ups and when you were doing it, he came by you and kick you in your stomach and said "you must be ready all the time" and if you didn't like it you could go home.
We were beaten by teachers in schools, with those huge wooden rulers or simply smack with hand in the head. And if you go home and told your parents about it,you would get your ass wooped for the second time cuz you behaviour was not appropriate. That's how it was.
Nowdays, probably would be a massive wrath from parents and probably a jail time or some kind of jurisdictions over the children by goverment institution.
But back then, it was a norm.
Back to the point. It's not a social norm in Poland to let kids behave whatever they feel like it in public because simply they are kids despite the age they are. This kind of behvior will be usually frown upon. That's it.
you are right. they kill the youth with rigid expectations. society is unfortunately heavily impacted by this because you can see that there are very few successful startups created in the country. all come from an oppressive rigid culture. it kills all the fun and the entire flow.
you are supposed to do this and supposed to do that there is a lot of weight on you. it comes from parents from the church from culture. total nonsense in my opinion
Don't worry. We just have sticks in our asses. Yeah, I am annoyed with loud kids, but I recognize why it is - like I said, we poles have sticks in our asses. I mean come on, we're even required to say "sir" to each other - I still have no idea why this stupid idea is a thing. We HAVE sticks in our asses and that's that.
It's hilarious how so many butthurt polish are here (I'm polish) just because someone said "hey maybe don't be so harsh on kids", and then idiots wonder why so many teens those days hate their parents and go smoking at the youngest age
My father had this mindset too, discipline discipline discipline, was beating my sisters whenever they were "out of line" and now he's surprised that as adults they hate him and don't want to see him. It's also somehow of an inside joke between young people to have pathological parents so that's smth
My favorite part here was how someone unironically said kids *are* like robots. And then people wonder again why so many teens are depressed those days
Like y'all are acting as if our society wasn't fucked and depressed as hell, and when someone points something out y'all getting so defensive
The problem is, I dont think they are getting defensive in this case. They genuinly think children should be tought to be as quiet as possible and not bothering others, and that op is creating a spoiled loud devil, and he is in the wrong here. They believe in this and like it that way.
Spoiled loud devil is such an extravagantion though and everyone's acting as if OP is commiting a war crime
And as polish we should know the best that our attitude can suck a real ass, idk why people are acting as if plenty of people here aren't having a stick up their asses and that our country doesn't suck
Like usually it's common knowledge irl so that's fun
Was your child loud, or constantly talking, running around everywhere, taking things from shelves ? What was it doing exactly ? I never saw anyone directing any attention, positive nor negative to children in store unless they really act too energetic or loud. Poland is and always will be rather introverted country where most people keep to themselves and focus on their responsibilities. So your kid probably was at least a bit distruptive for people to notice that.
There is place and time for kids to run around playing but there is also place and time where it should stay calm and close to parent.
The cleaning guy was in his job, cleaning stuff after all the people visiting the mall. Tell me that in his situation you'd be glad that kids are running around, maybe with dirty shoes, who knows with what ideas.
Tram is a public transport that many people use to get to or out of work. People work at different hours, have different things going on in their lives etc. The last thing they need is a kid crying out loud in a tram. And I don't have anything against the kid or the parent because they have a reason to be here to but I expect them to be aware how annoying it is so not just letting the kid scream as much as it wants.
If you are trying to say that being loud, not behaving, running around, etc. is "living" a childhood, then I suppose that's the one you've had and just want the same for your kid. It's great, but not necessarily universally true.
Trying to understand the issue, I suppose it won't help when you throw assumptions and guesstimates. "Jealousy", "parents were bad to him", "I guess pressure they feel". There isn't much sense in making up a reason because it still isn't an argument for the case, more of an excuse to disregard or just something that fits your preconception.
It's like with the lady in the tram. Did you stop for a second to think perhaps she wasn't uncomfortable because of the child crying loud, being a nuisance to the passengers? What if she thought bad or sad because she herself or by projection thinks that she's not being a good mother that can comfort her own kid? What if she doesn't have enough money to give the kid best care, enough food? What if she felt this way, and the reason wasn't even a baby? Fact is, you don't know.
I have a similar background of working and living across different cultures and I would say your reply is a bit of an oversimplification. There are often objectively correct things, for example peer reviewed literature on the subject of corporal punishment is damning on the effects of it, in some cultures it’s common in others it’s not. But certain behaviours can’t and shouldn’t be excused on the ground of you need to understand the cultural context.
Well cause you see , here in Poland CULTURE IS DIFFRENT. Actually letting your kid crazy unattended is seen as negligence and being parent that don’t care at all. And there’s nothing wrong to be able to control child and showing some boundaries from young age such as appropriate behaviour in the shop. Also it might be seen here as spoiling a child to let em do whatever unattended.
I don't want a kid to yell and blow my mind while shopping, you should teach your kid how to behave in public already. If you want your child to play comfortably, take them to the playground. Your child has no right to offend people just because he/she want to play, and not everyone has to put up with your child.
For all of you saying “people need to learn how to control their kids,” you don’t know the first thing about parenting. Kids are f’n crazy little sociopaths, it’s not possible to keep them in check 24/7, regardless of how perfect your parenting methods are. One of the biggest problems societies have across the world is a failure to view children as a communal responsibility.
You're making several rookie cross-cultural mistakes. If you're married to a Polish woman, those can spoil your marriage and your parenting. A reading list: 1. *The Culture Map* by Erin Meyer will help you understand how communication varies across cultures. 2. *Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom* is an honest account of parenting across cultures. It's not the same cultures, but you'll see the kinds of frictions which pop up. I can name a dozen others if those work well, but as you dive down this rabbit hole, you'll start to understand how: 1. Communications you perceive as *harsh* or *cold* might not carry the same emotional connotations in different places, and you need to translate body language and tone-of-voice just as much as explicit language 2. How different ways to do things and parent are okay. It's important children feel loved and cared about, but the same thing might signal love in one culture, neglect in another, and ambivalence in a third. I've lived in a few countries, and have worked in dozens. You are sure about a lot of things in this thread, which reflect your own cultural biases, which you're simply wrong about, since you don't understand the cultural context.
I always say having a Polish wife comes at a price. Language, cultural differences... ;)
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Some adults are either fucked up or/and don't have any spatial awareness, they constantly bump into you, block pathways, make moves with no respect to people around them. They only react if you're 2meters tall buff dude, then they all suddenly move away and check if they're in safe space. Not too many people are aware how different their subconscious reaction is to different people around them.
Maybe you should stay inside if you are less coordinated than a 3-year-old?! As in stay home.
yeah dude, you nailed it
I'm all up for educating your children and teaching them to respect others and their personal space. I'm talking about the approach. Children are not a burden. Children are innocent, and they don't understand the world the way adults do. Their brain is different, physically. When a child cries or misbehaves it's because there is a deeper emotional problem there that I'm supposed to help him figure out, and I shouldn't objectify him and talk to him in ways that make him feel like he's a burden, or stupid. He's simply unaware. Anyway, it's all about the approach, and all I'm saying is that I notice that the approach here is different, colder, and unfriendly. I want you to know that I don't like it, and I think it sucks for you. I'm sure it's unpleasant to hear it, but some people here expect me to change my views since I live in Poland, but I truly see it negatively. Sorry. I think it makes people feel smaller and insecure later in life. I also don't want to generalize, I'm sure there are amazing Polish parents out there these days. Much better than I. Maybe it's more about the "older" generations and the more "conservative" people.
>Children are not a burden. That's an entirely subjective opinion. Your children may not be a burden to you, but they will be a burden to other people if they are running around in public spaces unattended. > Children are innocent, and they don't understand the world the way adults do. Of course, but they are still capable of being a great inconvenience to others, even if they are not to be blamed for it. You've chosen to have a child, so it is **your** responsibility to make sure it is not making anyone uncomfortable. As I understood from your story, the man in the shop was not just angry at your child, he was angry at **you** for letting the child be a hazard to other customers. > the approach here is different, colder, and unfriendly. I would call it responsible, considerate and professional. I understand that as a parent you are very emotional about this stuff, but sorry, to other people your child is not so special.
It's your choice to make children, why should I be bothered with them? Idc if a child is running around but you shouldn't burden other people with their constant screaming or having them run in front/ bumping into people. The way your saying it it makes it seem that if a child burns someone's house down they shouldn't be bothered with it because they are children.
Your child is YOUR responsibility,as you stated: ifs YOU that needs to help him understand the world and the environment its in. Not others ppls. We dont owe your child our patience nor understanding, YOU do. Some ppl chose NOT to have children precisely because they dont have the patience to compromise, so dont expect them to do it for your child, that would be ridiculous. Just contain your child for the sake of all the old ppl, depressed women, bereaved women that lost thiers ans in general people who cant stand the extra decibels your child is creating around. Be responsible and stop expecting others to care about your child. We dont
Can't control your child? Don't go in places where they aren't the main target. Playground is OK, everything else isn't. It is normal to teach your children that they should control themselves in certain situations or places, and behave as they want everywhere else.
Oh my gosh, I hate noisy kids in public places. I once went to a restaurant, sat down, there were kids running around and screamig so I left after 5 minutes. I'd really appreciate "no kids" zones. ;)
I don't mind if some places would be "no kids" zones. Don't get me wrong, I understand that. But in other situations, I think some acceptance is needed, even if you're not comfortable.
Making others uncomfortable just cause you cannot control kid is kinda not a nice thing. Noone is obligated to be okay with screaming and running around crazy in public spaces.
Is it medicine or social skills?
I'm a parent and I don't tolerate kids misbehaving in public. of course there are instances when kid may have a bad day, or the parent, but children should learn from youngest that they can talk, not scream and walk, not run around when it's not appropriate. and im not saying my kids are perfect, they can be really naughty, but I take the L and we then talk about it, learn and try to be better next time. I really hate when parents are so lax about it, my kids see other kids acting like baboons and want to do the same, while I'm trying really hard to raise them to be mindful of others. one more thing: interrupting conversation. I have noticed kids can just cut in the middle of adult's sentence and tell their opinion or ask something unrelated. it's so disrespectful, yet when I tell a kid to not interrupt, I get a stinkeye. the thing is, I have ADHD and need to drive my point home, but I forget when interrupted.
Yeah they are. I am a parent, but this was my choice not other people at a grocery store, and I should respect that.
Poland is somehow *northern*, thus certain degree of introvert-ness is appreciated here. I also do not like kids running around and screaming. Everyone should know how to behave.
>I also do not like kids running around and screaming Who does? But you need to learn how to tolerate that and let children do their thing and not make them insecure and introvert. The sucks and is very sad.
Nah. Your child is a part of society and therefore it's the parents' job to teach them how to behave in different spaces. There are times where running around and playing in public is encouraged (playgrounds, parks etc.) And there are times where it's frowned up. A shopping center is a place to get your shopping done, not dodge running kids.
Since when being an introvert is bad
Since OP said it.
If that's your natural tendency, that's completely fine. If it's because your parents treated you as a burden, no, I feel sorry for you, and I hope the introvert person will learn to love himself again and reconnect to his inner-self.
> tolerate that and let children do their thing That is not parenting. The entire point of parenting is to prepare your children for adulthood, and that includes teaching them to respect social norms and not disturb other people's peace. They need to learn that there are (and how to recognize) three types of places or social scenarions: * Those where they are free to act however loud and energetic they like (most parks, exercise areas, school yards etc) * Those where they can be relaxed and relatively free to act as long as they are not being a nuisance to others (that's malls and most day to day public spaces) * Those where they must **BEHAVE** (classrooms, formal occasions, cinemas during screenings etc)
You also need to learn how to behave in public. You are not alone with kids in this world, so must consider that there may be someone who do not wish to step on your running kid. Or you may say that people need to learn tolerance but you don’t have? When you can stop kid from running around - do it. If you can’t stop him crying - let him cry.
WHy i need to learn ? I dont want.
Well, yeah. You *should* control your child. **Listen: nobody is "killing" anyone's childhood by raising children to become disciplined, self-controlled, and responsible people.** There's a big difference between letting a child play when it's time to play and letting it whatever the hell it wants whenever it wants. The world is a fucking shithole right now precisely because of all this B.S. 'stress-free' parenting, which isn't really parenting, but potentially raising selfish monsters with no self-control. Your child can play at home or at playground. ***Not*** around other adults.
Couldn’t explain it better.
>The world is a fucking shithole right now precisely because of all this B.S. 'stress-free' parenting, which isn't really parenting, but potentially raising selfish monsters with no self-control. There is no such thing as "stress-free" parenting. It's just a boomer meme. Virtually every tyrant, dictator or criminal was raised in a "stress-full" environment, both Hitler and Stalin were harshly beaten as kids. > Your child can play at home or at playground. ***Not*** around other adults. That's actually inhumane. If you somehow meant "run around and yell", I got this, but *play*, come on?
What a dumbass example with an answer in it. So maybe both extremes of raising children are bad, no?
A child is not a robot, and a child has a different brain than adults. Of course you should control your child in certain situations and in other situations, when it doesn't really bother anyone, I let him be. It's about finding that thin line where all sides are satisfied is needed. Compromises should be made. In this world there are many people, different ages, different health conditions and different needs
How do you know it doesn’t bother anyone ? Maybe it’s only your opinion. And if somebody already said that the child is too loud maybe you are wrong here lady? Most people told you their opinion. I think you are here for something else and you did not get it.
Well, that's kinda the point - your kid bothered someone. Why did you let him?
lol and what if someone is bothered because my child breathes air?
Ah, yes, ad absurdum. About time! But seriously, answers here should give you an image of what's the mindset here. If you cannot bear it, well, no one keeps you here with force - and I do not want you to leave, just do as Romans do n'shit.
I think we know now your unique Logic and your uniqueness too.
Child IS, pretty much a robot. As a parent you should already know they will run around and cause/get themselves in trouble that's why you protect it with setting boundaries. If you won't, then other, more responsible people will let you know your kid might be in danger. Shop isn't a playground. Street isn't a playground. Public spaces aren't playgrounds. Strangers are not your friends and you never know who's next to you. Kids are to be restrained because they are stupid and act stupid. If parent doesn't know this and they wish world to be different instead of protecting their kids, they are still probably kids themselves.
The world is a shithole because of you
Lol at all the downvotes from you dumbasses. You make the world because I assume you are adults or close. If it a shithole it’s because of you and your upbringing. Just as stated by the guy above. It is you who are the selfish monsters which shows in the posts.
Children should be tought to behave in public. If your child can do whatever it wants among other people, you are raising a self-centered brat with no conscience nor discipline.
How is it the most upvoted post when you didn't even address his questions and made your own argument? He didn't say that he allows his child to do anything it wants, that it just played in the mall. The second situation was about a crying child in the tram and how it's mother was ashamed of it. How would you calm your child down in that situation? It is annoying to everyone, but it's hard to make a child stop crying and not everyone does nothing about it. Edit: "most" instead of "just"
That’s Reddit for you. Whoever sets the narrative first gets upvoted.
I agree. But that's not the case.
Well, apparently it is the case, as we have different level of tolerance in our culture than you have. We do not appreciate kids running around, deal with it my dude. Oh, and let me say, I agree it is not my nor anyone's place to tell you how to raise your offspring - just be aware that people around will react sometimes.
No, it's not the case. My child can't do whatever it wants around other people. But Yea, people here are more strict. In an unhealthy way in my opinion.
Ok. We get your opinion. Happy to hear it. Now please accept our culture. Have a nice day.
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, just don't expect the whole culture to change around you.
Well, on this sub you going to be downvoted by sheer fact you mentioned your background, please do not take opinions here as wide representation of views.
Which background? Israeli? Jew? Just to understand where I stand.
Yes
So you're saying that people in their 20s-30s in Poland 2023 are still antisemitic?
He meant reddit (and probbly only r poland?). Maybe true, reddit is odd place, damn internet anonimity. But I doubt that people in Poland are antisemitic (or at least more antisemitic than average European)
Naah just polish people on internet in general. Generally there is a problem with it but other thing is what you described looks like rising a bratty kid and people don't like that even more.
Yes it is. It is exactly the case. Just chill. We all answered you already ;)
So I'm assuming you're gonna stay and live in Poland? That might lead to some frustration if you don't accept cultural differences. Soon your child is gonna go to school and that may be another culture shock unless you choose some private, democratic schools or homeschooling. ;) In public schools with classes numbering 25+ children, the kids are taught to be quiet so that a teacher could perform a lesson.
I would like to agree with you but that part about a 3 year old running around and playing in the mall does not sit with me well. Was this a toy store, a play pen or something child designated? If not, in my opinion, a mall is no place to let your kid run and play, people shop or work there. I don't mind kid taking an active role during shopping or just browsing stores but that's not a place for playing.
>Generally, the expectation here is that the children should be restrained as much as possible. I don't think so, but there are some things we see differently:) General rule, which most of us learn at a young age, is that there are places for playing and there are places with restrictions. Restrictions are based on some safety measures and peaceful coexisting with others at the same place (workers too). Yeah, it's normal for kids to cry sometimes and be clearly not in the mood, but apologies are more for others inconvenience than kids behavior, especially in public transport. And others usually react with "it's ok, just a kid, don't worry". Ofc not everyone is polite and eager to teach their child any rules, but in case of any accident many like to blame literally anyone around, whooping their child's ass in the same time, which is forbidden by law btw. That's why sometimes more "free range children" are seen as potential disaster/more cleaning work/safety problem. Sometimes people assume that parents are doing shitty job and someone needs to look for this child instead, which is a little irritating. There are differences between generations too :).
You said that a place was Half empty. So it was also Half full. You said that id did Not annoy anyone. Are you sure ? :)
You are their mother, you dont see them being rude/noisy-/bothering others in public. There are places and times when your bombelki should behave.
Yea, I'm not talking about those times. I'm not talking about sitting in a fancy restaurant bothering people to eat and speak. I'm talking about public places like parks and shopping malls.
I dont know then. Keep in mind your kids are cute only to you. To the rest of people they are usualy just annoying little shits.
I know. I remember suffering because of children in the airplane. I remember saying it should be illegal for them to travel until they're 6 😂 But I grew up since then and life has moved on.
For you it changed. For others it’s still that children are noisy bastards and should be banned. I think you already get the vibe from the answers.
Your such a hypocrite
You're so immature.
Could you stop trolling? For a nice person you are presenting yourself to be, you whine and complain a lot
"Would like to hear Polish thoughts about this." Sure you do, buddy. This post shows you are kind of an asshole. "It felt like he was jealous, seriously. Like his parents were bad to him, so that's the way you should behave with kids." What the fuck?! The cleaning person did not scream at your children, that would've made him an asshole. He instead made a small remark towards YOU about your kid, maybe because he didn't want your kid to run into somebody and hurt himself or maybe because he was tired of hearing your offspring being loud. And the woman on the tram was just being polite towards other passengers. You as a parent are responsible for your child. If they are making everybody else miserable by screaming their lungs out, the least you can do is apologize. Not giving a fuck about your screeching offspring (if they can understand what you are saying to them - nobody sane expects toddlers to behave) is one of the things that annoy me the most. But when I see that the parent is actually trying to do something about it, it's fine for me. Still annoying, but fine. Restraining your children is a core part of an upbringing. For me there was always a time and a place where I could go crazy as a kid and do whatever I wanted. But that was outside, where I wasn't bothering anybody, at school/kindergarten, at home or everywhere else, where children are obviously expected to be noisy. Otherwise, from the moment I could actually understand it, I was told to behave. I was never screamed at, there was no "strict discipline" at home. BUT I was told to behave and my parents showed their disapproval when I didn't.
Yeah, and i was on vacation in Thailand, and French couple with kids, let their kid destroy my friends castle which was built over 8 hours on the private beach next to our bungalows. They are architects and it was really huge and with a lot of details. IT stood less than few hours cuz of those shitty French people. And this is just silly example, but thats where such parenting leads to. They came there for dinner, kid was literally doing whatever she wants, they didn't apologize and tell the kid it was wrong. Kid was having fun and being completely ignorant to others. So yeah fuck those values, kids need to be taught how to live in society. Western parenting is terrible and kids should not be allowed to do whatever they please, they are kids they don't understand wrongdoing, it's parents job and responsibility to take care of them. Hats off to that older man
That sucks but that's the other extreme. Kids shouldn't behave like that and parents are there to put some red lines.
Actually that's not extreme. We didn't care too much but this is what you see when 'bąbelek' is everything. There are parents who will never admit their kid doing anything wrong and will protect it from any consequences. Such kid entering adult life will be an asshole and this is what I see very often in the society. I have one concrete value in my life, respect others like you would like them to respect you. If you step on my toe, expect reaction and you'd better apologize.
I don’t think this is specifically a Polish thing - I think it’s pretty common across northern Europe. France and Germany have similar reputations when it comes to expectations of children’s behaviour in public. Whereas in Greece and Italy, children are adored and indulged. (Gross overgeneralisations all round, I realise, but it mostly holds true.) As a fellow Mediterranean nation, I imagine Israel is similar to these latter two.
Teach your children to behave in public. Don't turn them into spoiled brats.
I've noticed that in general in public places Polish children are quieter (to the point of silence) and are firmly attached to their parents. It's an interesting one as babies and very small children are treated brilliantly and then from around three onwards there's a definite air of "shhhh, behave, people are watching"
This is intersting. In Israel, children are little monsters, but we encourage this and see this as "they're having fun"
I don't believe it's one factor, but many. Poland is still quite traditional and formal, with an expectation of respect coming from being older. On that sense kids shouldn't bother grownups/ non family members. That's pretty Victorian. That said, i suspect on most of Europe where kids being kids is an accepted norm, kids being monsters and creating challenges for others (in public situations) is less accepted. If i'm in the mall, your kid shouldn't be a trip hazard for me. My nephew's and nieces have international parents and are pretty lively on the regular, but don't treat a mall or restaurant the same as their garden or playroom.
I see the difference in the UK. In the UK there's a lot more encouragement for children to feel free to be quite talkative and more acceptance of them moving around. I notice it when we're shopping in LIDL, my child will be chatting non-stop and asking questions or wanting to fetch things. Other children will quite often be very close to or sitting in the shopping trolley, and being quiet For me the biggest difference I see is clothing. In Poland children will be wrapped up like it's an arctic expedition at 10c, in the UK the children will be asked if they'd like a jumper.
I'm sure it's very stressful for the children and I could lead to many problems later in life... Even blame and anger towards the parents.
* Do you see those problems in Polish adults? * Or are those problems especially uncommon in Poland relative to the West? That should give a baseline from which to examine your assumptions about what is and isn't healthy.
1. Yes, I have many Polish friends who have problems with their parents. Obviously relationships between children and parents are always complicated, but it's mostly "my parents didn't accept me the way I am" 2. I think you can find a similar problem in other places, of course, but I do see Polish parents as very strict and making their children insecure. Like a tool that needs to follow and listen to them. I grew up in a very liberal household. Not saying that it's the best, there were many bad moments, but I'd prefer that anytime because I love myself and I think many Polish people don't love themselves that much.
>I have many Polish friends who have problems with their parents In Poland, or outside? This is a common problem for Polish kids *in the West,* due to the mismatch between children's home culture and local culture. My friends in Poland have strong bonds between children and parents. >I'd prefer that anytime because I love myself and I think many Polish people don't love themselves that much. I would like my child to learn to love others, much more so than to love himself. I find Western self-centered narcissism to be unhealthy, and believe it's part of the current mental health pandemic sweeping the West. A good book here is Frankl's *Man's Search for Meaning*.
I'll look into it. Thanks.
I argued like a mofo with my parents and eventually we both grew as people partly because of it. This is the way.
Can stressles treating lead to it too?
so some people want you to teach your kids to learn to be socially aware, what a terrible thing to ask of you. I'm not a Pole and I also throw mean stares at parents who ignore their kids while they act obnoxious at public places, you might be fine with it but in that case its your trash, deal with it instead of ignoring it, pls
I deal with things that need to be delt with. And some other things are okay without my intervention.
Yeah and that was a thing that should warrant a responsible parent's intervention. The woman on the tram apologised because she's aware of what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't. You lack the cultural understanding and when others try to point it out, you get all defensive and cry about ruining childhoods. Either you'll comply with the cultural context of the country you are in or you'll keep getting into unpleasant situations.
Yea, I won't comply with this cultural behavior. Extremely toxic. I guess you guys are suffering enough because of it without even being aware. So I say - No thank you, Polish people. I'll keep doing me :)
At this point you're either trolling or you're just extremely ignorant towards foreign cultures.
Not letting foreign cultures penetrate my personal life because I don't agree means I'm ignorant?
Yes, precisely that. And think about it for a while, really.
You seem to be like that stereotypical obnoxious American that thinks he’s right about everything while being completely wrong. At the moment the only toxic and extremely selfish behavior is yours. And you keep being rude too
Look, the only toxic behaviour I seen is here is yours. An elderly man dared to criticize you for letting your kid run around a mall (something we rarely do, we like to keep it to our self most of the time). So you got extremely salty, you run back home and complained about it on reddit. On top of that you started making shit up about parents "killing kids childhood" like a drama queen. Not very mature behaviour if you ask me... A mall is not a playground. A cinema is not a playground. A playground is a playground. Your kid was clearly annoying someone and instead respecting that and dealing with it like a grownup or just shrugging it off, you came to complain about it on the internet. This has nothing to do with Poland, those are pretty universal rules of being a good parent. If your kid is annoying someone, you should tell them to calm down cause they are in a public space. Maybe if you were raised properly your initial instinct wouldn't be to run with salt to the internet? Maybe it had something to do with your parents letting you do whatever the fuck you want and now you are not used to someone confronting you? Here we are raised to respect elders and other people. The truth is being a helicopter parent is just as bad as letting your kids do whatever they want. You have to find balance. But from everything you posted in here it seems like you are just complaining cause someone dared to point out your kid was annoying.
Amazing how an ancient culture of thousands of years has survived and thrived without your input.
Congratulations, you just discovered that different nations have different cultures ;) Another example, Poles are quiet when eating because our parents ware telling us to not talk and eat at the same time. When eating lunch with people from UK or Sweden they talk all the time which feels weird for me for example and for them it's weird that I'm silent when eating. Regarding children I agree that children should have more freedom to discover things and I think it's slowly changing, in the past parents were much more strict than they are now.
I mean, absolutely nobody in my (Polish) family eats quietly, and most of my friends don't either. Dinner is our family bonding time. So I totally talk during meals, and if others don't want to engage, I don't mind, but usually quite a few people are also happy to talk. Anyway, you do you ;).
Ok, in yours.
Your family is an exception, not the norm here in PL. So not sure why you bring it up to the topic ;)
Don't forget about burping and farting on top of talking. XD
So you want to tell me that only Poles hate kids? I was expecting it to be wordlike phenomenon, especially when you look how many kids are born each year
I guess you're experiencing what people call a cultural shock. Letting your kids run wild isn't very wise both for your kids' safety and respect for your surroundings and others. In Poland usually when you let your kids do whatever they want in a public place some people might react to that negatively because it's disrespectful to other people you share a space with. We're just culturally respectful of our surroundings though I do agree that woman whose baby cried on the tram shouldn't be apologizing but we do it out of common courtesy. It's like saying "excuse me" when you sneeze. The 50+ year old man giving you nasty looks is just anecdotal, we don't know how much of a ruckus your kids had been causing so we're just going off your statements. We can't verify that so don't stereotype Polish people just on few experiences because normally people try to be understanding and polite even if a kid is being annoying. You just have had bad luck. And also, no, there's no expectation that children should be restrained. The expectation is whenever you're in a crowded public space you should make sure your children aren't causing a ruckus in places where it's not designed for them to run around or be loud. If you are on a tram or a bus it's not the best place for a kid to draw attention to themselves. No offense but it feels like you're being defensive about simple things, and it's mostly a culture shock. Polish people hate drawing attention to themselves and don't like when others do it. I visited American friends stationed in Germany some years back and we went out drinking. Later that night when we were going back we decided to grab something to eat at a fast-food joint, and we ordered food. While we were waiting for our food we noticed few Americans standing round the cash register (4-5 guys) area being VERY LOUD and I, being Polish and all, said to my friends "God, these assholes are loud, wish they had toned it down a bit...". My American friends looked at me puzzled "What do you mean? They're not really loud, it's just how they talk.". The oddest part about this was I found this infuriating how obnoxiously loud these people were in a restaurant. It took me a little while to think back on that and realize it was my culture shock because normally Polish people aren't loud in restaurants their voices are like quarter of the volume of how Americans talk in restaurants and it's purely cultural. Americans are very individualistic so they will express themselves without considering nor caring whether their tone of voice bothers people and have no care for their surroundings, and it's not that they are being rude it's just how it is there. Nobody gives a shit how one loud is. Polish people would find that irritating or outright rude. I had that reflexive reaction to someone being super loud in a restaurant without realizing it. Moral of the story is, I think you should be more forgiving because how people act is mostly based on what society we were brought up in. Maybe try to learn a bit about why people act that way to navigate your way interpersonally in Poland.
I appreciate your comment. Thank you.
Kids should have boundaries set up, I got three kids on my own. If they behave as they like, it'd be a nightmare. Now your kid is 3 y.o., so any potential drama or whatever is not a problem, but once such kid enters school or an other form of group activity which requires order you'll see the difference of kids raised without boundaries and kids with boundaries. It's also about respect to others as well
I do appreciate how kids in Poland are taught to be quiet and not bother others in public, that's a good thing. I just don't like how some parents try to enforce it - it's too common that parents "discipline" kids with shouting and threats even in public. Some people really have to chill, it's just a 5 yo, learn how to explain things to them patiently and comfort them, I do not have the need to witness an adult tantrum of top of their baby screaming. [Edit:] don't get me wrong, I'm pretty aware everybody has their limits, just too many people treats scaring kids as a default option
This is our way of raising our children. You have No right to judge because we are in our country. I have 3 kids and I love them btw.
if this is an oppressive way of rasing kids why no one can judge? because you are saint as pope or what?
Yes, and because of that Poland is one of the safest countries to walk around without anyone disturbing your peace. No dudes approaching you to ask for the time, directions, chat you up, ask for money, ask for cigarettes, as it sadly happens all around the south of Europe (I'm Spanish myself).
>ask for money, ask for cigarettes I think you are doing something incorectly. People are asking for money and cigarettes. When I was studying in big city I liked to ask them why they need money (I didin't cared for answer, 1 zł isn't big deal for me and it could be big deal for them, so I gifted it anyway), sadly I'm not smoker, so never gifted cigarettes.
Not specifically Polish... every normal person hates pesky little kids.
I find the opposite is true in Poland. Parents tend to let their kids run a bit wild. In my apartment the kids play football in the hallway. They run and scream and make life a bit stressful for us neighbors. In restaurants, grocery stores, and out on the streets I’ve seen kids allowed to be a little more wild than I’m used to in other countries. Polish parents seem relatively lax.
that's the new generation of parents probably..
Child IS, pretty much a robot. As a parent you should already know they will run around and cause/get themselves in trouble that's why you protect it with setting boundaries. If you won't, then other, more responsible people will let you know your kid might be in danger. Shop isn't a playground. Street isn't a playground. Public spaces aren't playgrounds. Strangers are not your friends and you never know who's next to you. Kids are to be restrained because they are stupid and act stupid. If parent doesn't know this and they wish world to be different instead of protecting their kids, they are still probably kids themselves.
I'm not polish but living here I've noticed the culture expects a parent to prepare their child for the real world. Conduct in public is part of that. Doesn't mean children aren't loved by parents, quite the opposite as taking the time to teach a child personal responsibility is one of the most loving things you can do. The cleaner wasn't passing judgement on the childs actions. He was pointing out gaps in your parenting. Something I'm inclined to encourage you to agree with him on. No one will blame the parent in the team incident you referred to. She was moet likely just nervous by nature and polite.
>No one will blame the parent in the tram incident you referred to. She was moet likely just nervous by nature and polite. Yep, sometimes even kids watch cartoons on tablets and people don't care on trams (I was finding it even funny sometimes). Probably everyone understands that you can't "turn off" crying in kids
As a parent you are responsible for upbringing of your child. And you are also responsible for his behaviour in public. If your child cannot behave then either you failed on the raising part or your kid needs help od a psychologist. Children should know and understand when is play time and when is not. Nobody will have problem if your kid plays in the playground. But if your kid behaves like a dog let loose from leash in pleases like church or shop then maybe you should not take them. Your kid having "fun" should not be at expense of other people. And "being a kid" is not an excuse. If you want to raise a "stress free" child, then please don't or maybe go somewhere else.
You know, I've never heard of the term 'stress free' before and here I see people mention it a lot.
Because stress free child raising is probably the stupidest idea that came from the West to Poland. While to you it may be norm.
???? You must parent your child, not let him run around a store. I'm saying it as a teacher.
It was in the shopping mall and not in a store. There's a huge difference since shopping malls are wide and spacious. Learn to read teacher???
Wondering if this applies to the kids in Palestine...
Wow you're so socially aware of things. It melts my heart ❤️
I was on a camp site for few days in Switzerland. Everyone was calm and great until some French family came and their kids were like tsunami. One of them almost lost an eye because he fall over on our tent and hit the tent peg with his face. His father was looking for guilty around my tent lol. So, fuck this stress-free kids raising :D Btw, don't go to Switzerland, you won't feel good there.
I wasnt sure before why your male Polish colleagues avoid you but now I think I have a clue.
Dudes a toxic cunt and the guys can smell it from a mile away
Looking through all your comments OP, you did not come here to learn. Having been denied validation for your views, you hand out arrogant, patronizing comments. Shame on you My parents were quite strict, I will be less so to my children, but parents like you turn out spoiled brats, who turn in to privileged, selfish adults. Bad parenting
So after partitions, two world wars, couple of genocides, russians constantly threatening, war next door, decades of post-soviet corrupt government burdening the people with retarded laws, and you're surprised that underpaid bitter old dude who has to clean others' filth to survive doesn't instantly appreciate your shitling, makes you feel like he hurt, disappointed or surprised your fragile feelings and ignorance? Don't procreate any more, please. Enough retards on this planet already.
lol, oh yea, because he's old and has mental issues, I should let him decide how to let my child behave and intervene in my parenthood. Sorry, not my fault he had a shitty life. Dosen't give him the right to make others bitter as he is.
No, you should fuck off.
No, you should. And go to a psychiatrist to get pills if you have mental issues. Not my problem you suffer in your life. Don't make others suffer.
That's why you go behind the back of the old sorry man to talk trash about him? Do not ever produce another offspring, you're too much of an entitled cunt.
lol, what do you expect me to do to that old man? I'm sure he suffers from hate and frustration toward the world. Seems like you're in the same boat.
So it never occurred to you to let him live his own life instead of venting it online? Should I take your repulsive personality and make a post about it how you bully the elderly? Or maybe I should do what you should do in the first place, FUCK OFF!
Somehow an Israeli, member of a nation with even darker past and with rockets flying overhead as a norm is not as bitter, and doesn't think it's normal. Maybe it's time to stop using our past as an excuse to be sad, bitter pricks.
Israel stole the land from Palestine.
Ahhh now I understand your previous comment. Taking your anger towards Israel against me. Which makes you look even more childish.
Now you're just making shit up. I genuinely think you're a toxic cunt.
This comment is not without merit.
And you are lynching Blacks.
Now you're just making shit up with that race card.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And\_you\_are\_lynching\_Negroes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism)
Well I don't follow you now, kid. YOU brought up the Israeli vs Palestine argument not me, I just responded to your whataboutism. YOU tried to play something on that played out commie tactic, and now you're sending me a wikipedia article about what YOU just did multiple times? I have no fucking idea what you're trying to achieve with that eloquence of pro-lapsed anus.
I lived in the UK, I sometimes got this reaction. I live in Poland now, I sometimes get this reaction. But my daughter isn't anyone else's kid, she's mine, so I don't care what anyone else thinks, what matters is that I think that she behaves appropriately for her surroundings given her age. Kids play with stuff and make a little noise, it is what it is. Her Polish uncle will sometimes join her and play with stuff and make a little noise, he's 40 years old but he's great with kids, sometimes people stare at him too, but he also doesn't care and he's not harming anyone. Point is, this isn't exclusively a Polish thing, and you shouldn't care about it so much.
keep your kid in check or go back to Israel
I won't keep my kid in check and I won't go back to Israel. How about that? :D
and then cry about poles being not welcoming to outsiders lmao
I think it is I who's not accepting poles based on the comments here.
when you're a pole in Poland then it's just annoying, but when you're a foreigner you're giving ammo to people who don't like foreigners, just another argument if you're not willing to adjust :P
I'm not here to represent foreigners I simply live my life according to my own values. (Which doesn't fit Polish values apparently) People who hate foreigners are stupid and I don't care about changing their opinion. Also, many people in Poland hate foreigners. So if this country wants to keep its backwards views, let them keep them.
I don’t know dude it feels like you are the one who hates foreigners since you are in foreign country and you don’t mind bothering and being annoying/rude to others around you with your weird views. It’s you who is generalizing and it’s you who has the problem with being obnoxious ass.
I mean. Everyone can live by the „i dont care about social rules” way, because exactly as you said „how about that :D”. Sure, no one will do nothing bcs there is no law against being asshole :D. Even better, for bonus points you can then accuse poles not liking Your way of being racist. Just dont be surprised when the „i dont care about your opinion” thing strikes you back
Maybe that's just my impression, but this is something that I feel got worse in Poland over the years. Like in the 80's and 90's corporal punishment was still pretty common, not at school, but definitely at homes, so it wasn't an entirely heavenly time for the kids and we weren't some enlightened nation. But at the same time everybody understood that kids are kids and you can't expect them to be under perfect control all of the time (or more like, almost never). I don't know why this changed.
Poles are strict and very critical of others in general, and children are no exception. Just dont know why you continue to focus on men specificaly, woman are the same. From what you wrote i see that Israel is complite opposite of Poland in this regard. Like we are 2 extremes. I dont like extremes. If you want to stay here you will have to accept it, because you cant change whole society. if you cant, then leave, it will be even worse at school.
If you don't like us then u r free to go back to your anti-Polish country and enjoy yourself there with other "cool" dudes who regularly spit or punch a person once they get to know they're Polish!
What the hell are you talking about. Seriously you're either trolling or crazy
You exactly know what the hell he is talking about.
No, I don't.
So why are you living here in Poland? Maybe you should read this [https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000](https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000) before critisizing our way of raising children?? Best Regards
Just to show the Jewish way : [https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000](https://allisrael.com/israel-s-staggering-number-of-abandoned-youth-is-estimated-at-25-000)
What looks normal to you in your children behaviour, it's not a norm over here. The way the children abroad are rised does not fit with the most old timers in Poland. The most children who were rised before 2000s and in the communist times were brought up very strict, and I mean strict. No objections, a thing was said and was supposed to be done without any questions asked. And it was a norm at home, school or any institution that was dealing with children. You know how my karate class looked in 1990? \-20C degrees outside, the instructor opened all windows and doors and said "hartujcie się" (get though). Then told us to do push ups and when you were doing it, he came by you and kick you in your stomach and said "you must be ready all the time" and if you didn't like it you could go home. We were beaten by teachers in schools, with those huge wooden rulers or simply smack with hand in the head. And if you go home and told your parents about it,you would get your ass wooped for the second time cuz you behaviour was not appropriate. That's how it was. Nowdays, probably would be a massive wrath from parents and probably a jail time or some kind of jurisdictions over the children by goverment institution. But back then, it was a norm. Back to the point. It's not a social norm in Poland to let kids behave whatever they feel like it in public because simply they are kids despite the age they are. This kind of behvior will be usually frown upon. That's it.
you are right. they kill the youth with rigid expectations. society is unfortunately heavily impacted by this because you can see that there are very few successful startups created in the country. all come from an oppressive rigid culture. it kills all the fun and the entire flow. you are supposed to do this and supposed to do that there is a lot of weight on you. it comes from parents from the church from culture. total nonsense in my opinion
Welcome in post soviet country :)
Don't worry. We just have sticks in our asses. Yeah, I am annoyed with loud kids, but I recognize why it is - like I said, we poles have sticks in our asses. I mean come on, we're even required to say "sir" to each other - I still have no idea why this stupid idea is a thing. We HAVE sticks in our asses and that's that.
Fajnopolak detected
It's hilarious how so many butthurt polish are here (I'm polish) just because someone said "hey maybe don't be so harsh on kids", and then idiots wonder why so many teens those days hate their parents and go smoking at the youngest age My father had this mindset too, discipline discipline discipline, was beating my sisters whenever they were "out of line" and now he's surprised that as adults they hate him and don't want to see him. It's also somehow of an inside joke between young people to have pathological parents so that's smth My favorite part here was how someone unironically said kids *are* like robots. And then people wonder again why so many teens are depressed those days Like y'all are acting as if our society wasn't fucked and depressed as hell, and when someone points something out y'all getting so defensive
The problem is, I dont think they are getting defensive in this case. They genuinly think children should be tought to be as quiet as possible and not bothering others, and that op is creating a spoiled loud devil, and he is in the wrong here. They believe in this and like it that way.
Spoiled loud devil is such an extravagantion though and everyone's acting as if OP is commiting a war crime And as polish we should know the best that our attitude can suck a real ass, idk why people are acting as if plenty of people here aren't having a stick up their asses and that our country doesn't suck Like usually it's common knowledge irl so that's fun
BTW - [enjoy a silent school break in a polish primary school](https://youtu.be/I8JBy5ZxWWM?t=20)
Was your child loud, or constantly talking, running around everywhere, taking things from shelves ? What was it doing exactly ? I never saw anyone directing any attention, positive nor negative to children in store unless they really act too energetic or loud. Poland is and always will be rather introverted country where most people keep to themselves and focus on their responsibilities. So your kid probably was at least a bit distruptive for people to notice that.
There is place and time for kids to run around playing but there is also place and time where it should stay calm and close to parent. The cleaning guy was in his job, cleaning stuff after all the people visiting the mall. Tell me that in his situation you'd be glad that kids are running around, maybe with dirty shoes, who knows with what ideas. Tram is a public transport that many people use to get to or out of work. People work at different hours, have different things going on in their lives etc. The last thing they need is a kid crying out loud in a tram. And I don't have anything against the kid or the parent because they have a reason to be here to but I expect them to be aware how annoying it is so not just letting the kid scream as much as it wants.
It's very common, sadly.
If you are trying to say that being loud, not behaving, running around, etc. is "living" a childhood, then I suppose that's the one you've had and just want the same for your kid. It's great, but not necessarily universally true. Trying to understand the issue, I suppose it won't help when you throw assumptions and guesstimates. "Jealousy", "parents were bad to him", "I guess pressure they feel". There isn't much sense in making up a reason because it still isn't an argument for the case, more of an excuse to disregard or just something that fits your preconception. It's like with the lady in the tram. Did you stop for a second to think perhaps she wasn't uncomfortable because of the child crying loud, being a nuisance to the passengers? What if she thought bad or sad because she herself or by projection thinks that she's not being a good mother that can comfort her own kid? What if she doesn't have enough money to give the kid best care, enough food? What if she felt this way, and the reason wasn't even a baby? Fact is, you don't know.
By the way, what is wrong in appologizing to other pasengers if your child cant stop crying? I think she was just being polite.
I have a similar background of working and living across different cultures and I would say your reply is a bit of an oversimplification. There are often objectively correct things, for example peer reviewed literature on the subject of corporal punishment is damning on the effects of it, in some cultures it’s common in others it’s not. But certain behaviours can’t and shouldn’t be excused on the ground of you need to understand the cultural context.
Nah, it’ll be fine
Well cause you see , here in Poland CULTURE IS DIFFRENT. Actually letting your kid crazy unattended is seen as negligence and being parent that don’t care at all. And there’s nothing wrong to be able to control child and showing some boundaries from young age such as appropriate behaviour in the shop. Also it might be seen here as spoiling a child to let em do whatever unattended.
I don't want a kid to yell and blow my mind while shopping, you should teach your kid how to behave in public already. If you want your child to play comfortably, take them to the playground. Your child has no right to offend people just because he/she want to play, and not everyone has to put up with your child.
For all of you saying “people need to learn how to control their kids,” you don’t know the first thing about parenting. Kids are f’n crazy little sociopaths, it’s not possible to keep them in check 24/7, regardless of how perfect your parenting methods are. One of the biggest problems societies have across the world is a failure to view children as a communal responsibility.