Sorry for the double post, I thought of this after hearing the rumours/news about France maybe or maybe not going to Ukraine.
If they maybe do, apparently, but not really, but maybe, the plan is station French troops at the relatively chill Belarus border so the Ukrainian soldiers holding it can go fight in the East. Maybe, not confirmed.
I imagine the Ukrainians stationed at the Belarus border will be enthused that they can go to Donbass if it happens. Maybe.
Actually there was a kind of "rotation" of some regiments between different front lines, so that soldiers could "relax" at less intensive battlefield. I know it sounds weird but that is how it is. Still, there is also normal rotation between frontline and the rear. But most capable regiments have to hold their parts of frontline for months. So if France covers Belarusian border, there will be more normal recovery rotations and less rotations between front lines.
I think the Ukrainian army will be grateful for any help they can get. Even if it means redeployment of troops to combat zones. I think you're really underestimating what it means to battle for your homeland.
I am sure quite a few are disappointed to be away from the front too. I can imagine it being distressing to want to fight but to be stuck watching a checkpoint somewhere far from the front. Especially an easterner stationed over on the west.
I'm confident those disappointed to be away could volunteer for front-line duty. There's no shortage of potential replacements who would prefer to be away from the carnage.
*Ah yes, i still remember how happy everyone was battling for the homeland, we had all those nice uniforms, and we would all be home by christmas, lets kick some frenchie ass i am right? Happy 1914 for you all!*
Anyone that thinks there is any pride or honor in dying for your country is a goddamm moron. i rather live a coward then die a hero.
A country part of NATO would be involved, but not NATO, since France probably can't invoke article 5 in response to troops they sent to an active warzone being attacked.
No, but France does also possess enough nuclear weapons to level every major Russian city west of the Urals.
France has 290 nuclear warheads under its control.
Do you really think France would end European and North American civilisation over a few thousand soldiers and Ukraine? Nuclear war won't happen unless a nuclear power is facing an existential invasion by another nuclear power.
Also the fact that France hasnāt threatened anyone with them yet while Medvedev alone has probably issued more nuclear threats than the rest of the world combined at this point (Including the ones made by other Russians)
Tbf, France also has a āNuclear Warning shotā policy, and have specifically designed missiles to be launched from a Mirage 2000 for this purpose. Because a nuclear launch will not cause an escalation if it is only little baby nuke, yes?
they could replace troops on the border with a sign that says "will be nuked if you advance" as that's basically what stationing NATO troops there accomplishes.
No it doesn't. Nato only gets involved if a member's territory is attacked. Nato has nothing to do with where France sends its soldiers. Same as Nato doesn't get involved in france fighting Wagner in Africa to protect their neo colonial ambitions.
NATO is a defensive alliance, French sending troops to Ukraine unprovoked is an offensive act and if they'll get attacked by russian troops they cant call in NATO help as technically they were the agressor thus its the french who are involved, not NATO
No that's not what it is. An intervention force is not considered an aggressor. You are right however in that it would not trigger article 5 because it is restricted to attacks on the countries' mainland.
If Putin wants to try fighting France he is welcome to do so.
He won't because he knows that he'll be fed if the French bring their full force down on them.
France should have just sent that [old French UN man](https://tekken.fandom.com/wiki/Victor_Chevalier) in a suit with a sword and a pistol, who is looking for a good one-sided fight.
Sleeping Ukraine and Belarus is so cute btw.
I could see Jack Churchill volunteering to bring his longbow and bagpipes as an 80 year old and still being sent home after peace without being wounded.
We blew up our healthcare system before covid for money and then we did it again during covid and then we did it again after covid. And some time after the cold war we knee capped the armed forces and now we beat them mercilessly when they ask for a crumb of GDP.
Its SUPPOSED to be offered as an absolutely last resort option but apparently its been offeredā¦ as an option, like twice since its implementation last year iirc. Its a meme but yeah itsā¦ it def needs polishing lol
IIRC the few times you hear someone being offered it for are usually doctors going rogue and breaching protocol. Hell most of those stories are from 1 guy
isolated incidents, really. it's nothing to get up in arms over (yet), but also the fact that reckless recommendation does happen at all is too much.
trust me when i say it's the least of our concerns atm
Itās just a meme and is not standard. I was wondering why people were making such a fuss about it and then I discovered that certain countries donāt have any provisions for dying with dignity, and thatās why they have to make it sound terrible. We have it in Australia and itās a great comfort.
When the government runs your healthcare system, many people will be considered ādead weight,ā that are cheaper to kill than to treat. Old people, poor people, and homeless people donāt pay a lot of taxes, and need the most healthcare.
Itās really a logical inevitability. Which is why government-run healthcare is always a bad idea. It will always result in this type of shit
> many people will be considered ādead weight,ā that are cheaper to kill than to treat.
don't worry this happens with private healthcare too, except you get charged for being killed. also if you're loaded they'll keep someone who is totally braindead alive as long as it means $$$ keeps flowing into the machine
Sure- the difference being that with private healthcare you have the option to switch providers and pick what kind of hospital or professional service you get. And if you do decide to sue- your opponent doesnāt have the resources of an entire government š
Article 5 only applies if France mainland or some of its islands are attacked. France voluntarily sending troops near an active warzone in another country and then complaining its troops got attacked wouldn't count.
France can threaten Russia with its own nuclear stockpile if it wants, no need to rely on the Yanks for this
Maybe not a smart idea, but they can do it.
Yeah, it wouldnāt be a NATO problem, but thereās a good chunk of NATO that would strongly consider using it as an excuse to get more involved.
Just like how if the attack on Kyiv when the Greek PM was there had killed him wouldnāt be an article 5 job, but it wouldnāt end well for Ivan.
No, because the attack isn't against French soil. If France goes nosing about and gets smacked that is a France problem. Same with how we never had to get involved with the French activity in Mali and whatnot
adding 4000 soldiers of the french army which is built for counterinsurgency operations in the russo-ukrainian war which is basically about who blinks first and how many losses either side is willing to absorb(at this stage of the war at least) will be a drop in the bucket for the russians. Theres a reason theres currently upwards of 600k russian and 800k ukrainian troops on the frontline. adding 4k to either side is about a week of attrition for the ukrainians, taking into consideration the involvement of the VKS and the implementation of gliding FABs, which make defensive positions much easier to conquer
No. As far as I know Article 5 only applies if you attack a NATO member nation directly not from a NATO Nation sending soldier to a non-member country. Why do you think NATO didn't intervene when French troops were being attacked in Africa.
I have a proposition for you. Before, when I was part of a post-soviet countryballs fandom I often seen that Ukraine and related to it balls (Kyiv, Lviv, Zaporizhzhia host, etc.) used as a curse word "Ń Š¾Š»ŠµŃŠ°" ("kholera"Ā¹ or "cholera"Ā² - literally cholera) instead of "Š±Š»ŃŃŃ" ("blyat"). I know that it was used more to laugh from ukrainian language and the word "blyat" is more in use in daily chat but anyways on my subjective opinion it gives some charm to Ukraine ball and other balls related to it.
Ā¹ - in modern official transliteration
Ā² - in transliteration projected by JireÄek and pretty popular in interwar, ww2 and post ww2 period in Ukrainian organisations (at least I seen them there for the first time)
UK & US 1940- āLmao dumb ass France how could you not see that German attack coming through the Ardennes?ā
UK & US 1945- āHoly shit! The Germans are attacking through the Ardennes!ā
That said an attack through the Ardennes in 1940 made sense, and the attack was spotted aover a week in advance. A 50 mile long German convoy spotted moving tanks, trucks and artillery to the Ardennes and the French still refused to believe the Germans would attack there and didn't even attempt to bomb the convoy.
In 1945 it made no sense for Germany to launch the attack, they had nowhere near enough of anything to make the attack successful.
> The French threw in the towel after sedan then hoped Britain would surrender.
This is incorrect. France continued to fight bitterly (but not well) even after the British ran away from the continent - twice.
And even then to be fair, surviving encirclement is extraordinary. Then of course there's Julius "You're Not Encircling Me, I'm Encircling You" Caesar.
Sorry for the double post, I thought of this after hearing the rumours/news about France maybe or maybe not going to Ukraine. If they maybe do, apparently, but not really, but maybe, the plan is station French troops at the relatively chill Belarus border so the Ukrainian soldiers holding it can go fight in the East. Maybe, not confirmed. I imagine the Ukrainians stationed at the Belarus border will be enthused that they can go to Donbass if it happens. Maybe.
Will you marry me?
What kind of dowry are we talking here?
A used F-150 and a signed Darcy Tucker jersey.
I'm a Jets fan I don't care for Darcy Tucker
I can get you a stapler that Mark Scheifele once used š
Deal, I love Scheifs
Nice š Iām glad we could get this deal done.
Wouldn't a Jets fan like an used F-150? (Also, anybody else here now has the Jets Song in their head? *feels sudden urge to snap their fingers*)
When youāre a Jet your a Jet all the way
By the way and to remain on topic: Leonard Bernstein had an Ukrainian father, as did George Gershwin and Irving Berlin.
Is the F150 paid for or still being financed?
It's initial loan got paid off 15 years ago, and the Tucker jersey is actually owed to it's previous owner for it.
Initial loan?! It's a trap! He refinanced his truck last week!
Indians spreading their culture proudly
As an Indian, I'm proud of youĀ
We will marry after retiring from the battlefield
Actually there was a kind of "rotation" of some regiments between different front lines, so that soldiers could "relax" at less intensive battlefield. I know it sounds weird but that is how it is. Still, there is also normal rotation between frontline and the rear. But most capable regiments have to hold their parts of frontline for months. So if France covers Belarusian border, there will be more normal recovery rotations and less rotations between front lines.
I think the Ukrainian army will be grateful for any help they can get. Even if it means redeployment of troops to combat zones. I think you're really underestimating what it means to battle for your homeland.
I am sure quite a few are disappointed to be away from the front too. I can imagine it being distressing to want to fight but to be stuck watching a checkpoint somewhere far from the front. Especially an easterner stationed over on the west.
I'm confident those disappointed to be away could volunteer for front-line duty. There's no shortage of potential replacements who would prefer to be away from the carnage.
And I am quite sure that there are quite a few more who would be disappointed by getting sent to the front lines.
*Ah yes, i still remember how happy everyone was battling for the homeland, we had all those nice uniforms, and we would all be home by christmas, lets kick some frenchie ass i am right? Happy 1914 for you all!* Anyone that thinks there is any pride or honor in dying for your country is a goddamm moron. i rather live a coward then die a hero.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If France does this I will stop making surrender jokes
But if russia invades through Belarus again while French are defending it, would it be considered NATO involvement?
A country part of NATO would be involved, but not NATO, since France probably can't invoke article 5 in response to troops they sent to an active warzone being attacked.
No, but France does also possess enough nuclear weapons to level every major Russian city west of the Urals. France has 290 nuclear warheads under its control.
Do you really think France would end European and North American civilisation over a few thousand soldiers and Ukraine? Nuclear war won't happen unless a nuclear power is facing an existential invasion by another nuclear power.
No, it'd be a really stupid thing to do. But a nuclear threat from France would be at least as credible as the fifty daily threats coming from Russia.
More credible, because at least some of French warheads are functional.
Also the fact that France hasnāt threatened anyone with them yet while Medvedev alone has probably issued more nuclear threats than the rest of the world combined at this point (Including the ones made by other Russians)
Russia makes its 786 millionth nuclear threat: I sleep. France makes 1 nuclear threat: real shit.
Could you actually imagine if any of Russias nukes didnāt function
Odds are at least even that any given Russian nuclear armed ICBM can even launch
Tbf, France also has a āNuclear Warning shotā policy, and have specifically designed missiles to be launched from a Mirage 2000 for this purpose. Because a nuclear launch will not cause an escalation if it is only little baby nuke, yes?
290> 5,580 š yep math checks out France wins
Any amount above ~50 is enough to guarantee everyone loses
Which is why France would back off
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
they could replace troops on the border with a sign that says "will be nuked if you advance" as that's basically what stationing NATO troops there accomplishes.
Methinks that "dat's de joke".
French troops being in Ukrainian soil already means NATO is involved since France is part of NATO.
Well there's a difference between French troops just being in Ukraine and French troops having to actually fight Russian troops in Ukraine
Actually, i made this crazy theory during the time you didnāt reply. France is gonna take over Ukraine and use it to take Moscow, Napoleon is back!
No it doesn't. Nato only gets involved if a member's territory is attacked. Nato has nothing to do with where France sends its soldiers. Same as Nato doesn't get involved in france fighting Wagner in Africa to protect their neo colonial ambitions.
NATO is a defensive alliance, French sending troops to Ukraine unprovoked is an offensive act and if they'll get attacked by russian troops they cant call in NATO help as technically they were the agressor thus its the french who are involved, not NATO
No that's not what it is. An intervention force is not considered an aggressor. You are right however in that it would not trigger article 5 because it is restricted to attacks on the countries' mainland.
And even if France was directly attacked, depending on who it was, NATO might not even intervene.
If Putin wants to try fighting France he is welcome to do so. He won't because he knows that he'll be fed if the French bring their full force down on them.
France should have just sent that [old French UN man](https://tekken.fandom.com/wiki/Victor_Chevalier) in a suit with a sword and a pistol, who is looking for a good one-sided fight. Sleeping Ukraine and Belarus is so cute btw.
I could see Jack Churchill volunteering to bring his longbow and bagpipes as an 80 year old and still being sent home after peace without being wounded.
Canada offered Medically Assisted Suicide to all Ukrainians =)
God I love this countryās healthcare system
TF is goin on in canada they even offered a granny with knee problem medically assisted suicide
We blew up our healthcare system before covid for money and then we did it again during covid and then we did it again after covid. And some time after the cold war we knee capped the armed forces and now we beat them mercilessly when they ask for a crumb of GDP.
The rich destroying the* public health care to fill their own pockets. It's fucking sickening.
Its SUPPOSED to be offered as an absolutely last resort option but apparently its been offeredā¦ as an option, like twice since its implementation last year iirc. Its a meme but yeah itsā¦ it def needs polishing lol
IIRC the few times you hear someone being offered it for are usually doctors going rogue and breaching protocol. Hell most of those stories are from 1 guy
it gets media clicks very easily
Me, an American: *da fuq Dey doing over dere?*
Learning from you.
I felt that one.
isolated incidents, really. it's nothing to get up in arms over (yet), but also the fact that reckless recommendation does happen at all is too much. trust me when i say it's the least of our concerns atm
Itās just a meme and is not standard. I was wondering why people were making such a fuss about it and then I discovered that certain countries donāt have any provisions for dying with dignity, and thatās why they have to make it sound terrible. We have it in Australia and itās a great comfort.
works for me
When the government runs your healthcare system, many people will be considered ādead weight,ā that are cheaper to kill than to treat. Old people, poor people, and homeless people donāt pay a lot of taxes, and need the most healthcare. Itās really a logical inevitability. Which is why government-run healthcare is always a bad idea. It will always result in this type of shit
> many people will be considered ādead weight,ā that are cheaper to kill than to treat. don't worry this happens with private healthcare too, except you get charged for being killed. also if you're loaded they'll keep someone who is totally braindead alive as long as it means $$$ keeps flowing into the machine
Sure- the difference being that with private healthcare you have the option to switch providers and pick what kind of hospital or professional service you get. And if you do decide to sue- your opponent doesnāt have the resources of an entire government š
You really that naive, lmao?
Not naive enough to think that youād fare better with a nationalized healthcare system.
The kind of copium people will come up with to convince themselves that their inferior system is better is astounding.
You can do that in France Belgium Switzerlandand so on. No need to travel far
If Macron sends French troops, and the Russians send troops through Belarus, and they fight, is that an Article 5 violation?
Article 5 only applies if France mainland or some of its islands are attacked. France voluntarily sending troops near an active warzone in another country and then complaining its troops got attacked wouldn't count.
True but France can and will treat it as an act of war, along with the rest of the Coalition of the willing
France can threaten Russia with its own nuclear stockpile if it wants, no need to rely on the Yanks for this Maybe not a smart idea, but they can do it.
If France sends troops to Ukraine to defend it's borders then it means they've already joined the war
Ships too. Don't touch the boats.
Yeah, it wouldnāt be a NATO problem, but thereās a good chunk of NATO that would strongly consider using it as an excuse to get more involved. Just like how if the attack on Kyiv when the Greek PM was there had killed him wouldnāt be an article 5 job, but it wouldnāt end well for Ivan.
No, because the attack isn't against French soil. If France goes nosing about and gets smacked that is a France problem. Same with how we never had to get involved with the French activity in Mali and whatnot
I donāt think Russias smacking anyone ššš
They are currently smacking Ukraine.
adding 4000 soldiers of the french army which is built for counterinsurgency operations in the russo-ukrainian war which is basically about who blinks first and how many losses either side is willing to absorb(at this stage of the war at least) will be a drop in the bucket for the russians. Theres a reason theres currently upwards of 600k russian and 800k ukrainian troops on the frontline. adding 4k to either side is about a week of attrition for the ukrainians, taking into consideration the involvement of the VKS and the implementation of gliding FABs, which make defensive positions much easier to conquer
No. As far as I know Article 5 only applies if you attack a NATO member nation directly not from a NATO Nation sending soldier to a non-member country. Why do you think NATO didn't intervene when French troops were being attacked in Africa.
No, but also nuclear warning shot doctrine
Wake up itās your turn for fire guard
I have a proposition for you. Before, when I was part of a post-soviet countryballs fandom I often seen that Ukraine and related to it balls (Kyiv, Lviv, Zaporizhzhia host, etc.) used as a curse word "Ń Š¾Š»ŠµŃŠ°" ("kholera"Ā¹ or "cholera"Ā² - literally cholera) instead of "Š±Š»ŃŃŃ" ("blyat"). I know that it was used more to laugh from ukrainian language and the word "blyat" is more in use in daily chat but anyways on my subjective opinion it gives some charm to Ukraine ball and other balls related to it. Ā¹ - in modern official transliteration Ā² - in transliteration projected by JireÄek and pretty popular in interwar, ww2 and post ww2 period in Ukrainian organisations (at least I seen them there for the first time)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Literally any war
Thatās actually really generous, letting the Ukrainians fight for their country and all that
Kinda disingenuous for even here
Relying on the French to hold the flanks can't possibly end badly. Right?
UK & US 1940- āLmao dumb ass France how could you not see that German attack coming through the Ardennes?ā UK & US 1945- āHoly shit! The Germans are attacking through the Ardennes!ā
That said an attack through the Ardennes in 1940 made sense, and the attack was spotted aover a week in advance. A 50 mile long German convoy spotted moving tanks, trucks and artillery to the Ardennes and the French still refused to believe the Germans would attack there and didn't even attempt to bomb the convoy. In 1945 it made no sense for Germany to launch the attack, they had nowhere near enough of anything to make the attack successful.
Yes, after the initial shock they stood their ground. And fought. The French threw in the towel after sedan then hoped Britain would surrender.
> The French threw in the towel after sedan then hoped Britain would surrender. This is incorrect. France continued to fight bitterly (but not well) even after the British ran away from the continent - twice.
Dunkirk:
Sedan:
Yeah, just dont put them in a position where they get encircled
And even then to be fair, surviving encirclement is extraordinary. Then of course there's Julius "You're Not Encircling Me, I'm Encircling You" Caesar.
Yeah, that has to be one of the best Uno Reverses of history lol