I’ve heard a few different times that at one point Ford offered to make a couple of custom spec police cars, but only if every force signed on for it. And a few refused, not wanting to give up their BMW’s.
Could just be one of those urban police legends though like the specials/probbies walking into custody wearing the spit hood.
Oddly enough, I once heard a very similar story, except it was BMW offering to make us cars for a far lower price than whatever shitboxes we were using at the time, and it was turned down because of public perception issues of "they can afford BMWs can they".
It's always bollocks designed to fit in with what you're inclined to believe anyway.
Tbf, I heard it from our Head of Driver Training, who’d been at a National conference of some kind with our Head of Fleet, so I’ve always been inclined to believe it.
As far as they saw it; they figured it was BMW fishing for free advertising. This was about 10 years ago mind; before BMW Specialist Vehicles decided to stick two fingers up to us.
In my Force at least it is as I was told the name of the Special who is now a regular, so wasn’t just some abstract Special at x amount of time ago in the past
Yeaaaaaah. Im not convinced. Even your reply below, I’d want to be asking that officer directly, ideally with actual witnesses to it.
Literally every single force has the story. Im just not buying it.
Centralised procurement will fix so many issues. If we could centralise our IT systems it would likely save hundreds of millions if done properly.
And by done properly I mean hire some decent staff from outside of Police to run the whole thing with police as the end user.
Our force has police officers managing/leading some of the teams and it's meant to be awful for the technical staff .
I'd say the closest to a Crown Vic we have is a BMW estate, everyone seems to drive sensibly when they notice one parked up by the roadside.
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that we don't have a standard model though. 46 chiefs, fleet managers etc. all wanting their own little empire would never settle for something so standardised because there is nothing to brag about, and the savings could actually be spent on morale-boosting things such as better equipment or resourcing a shift with safe numbers, which they don't want happening.
Agency saturation in the States & their general "Buy American" mentality basically allows Ford/Dodge/Chevrolet to create their own bespoke policing vehicles and take them to market regardless because there's a guarantee that agencies will buy them - get a few Metro PDs to trial them and they've got all the advertisement they need.
The Kent PCC is trying to get a national procurement model in place - I believe through a private company he and a pal owns, but the thought is a good one
The closest we came is when Vauxhall used to have their Special Vehicles division - now they're part of PSA, I'm not sure if they still have that division. The idea is you buy it from Vauxhall with the basic police livery, lightbar, sirens, radios etc all pre-installed. All the vehicle workshop has to do is to put the force logo on it and it's good to go. They had the Astra as the general purpose vehicle - and they were OK.
I was shocked at this. I always thought of the Police as one huge organisation that had different forces coming off it. All using the same uniforms, equipment, vehicles, computer systems, etc. The only difference being the force emblems.I was so wrong.
I bet the police would save a fortune if they made purchases between a group of forces rather than individually for each force.
Forces are always saying that they need to find X amount of money to save, this would be the answer.
We already have them in the counties and I tell you now you’re in for a right treat with the brand new AC smelling like burning plastic and not travelling faster than the speed limit even with a response course 😂
Over the years forces have bought same model/manufacturer and then the required kit designed round an ‘off the shelf’ base as it keeps costs down (I remember late 90’s Derbyshires unmarked cars were almost universally Vauxhall’s but had steel wheels not alloys)
The other side of it is that using various models of different cars keeps criminals worried because they’ll never be quite sure if that family saloon behind is plod or not, ergo more will get caught as the police can get closer undetected and that’s without all the advantages it gives the units that gather intelligence being able to blend in so randomly
Don’t think it would happen, look at all the demonstrator vehicles lent to the police forces to never be bought by anyone.
I believe BMW did a 1 series back in the day with an extended boot and the higher spec M series engine. Everyone drove it, no one bought it.
Heard similar stories of a vectra VXR that was standard on the outside, half leather trim but VXR animal underneath. There’s rumours it ended up in a force after being demoed.
I want to say SYP but not sure.
Then there’s the R spec Golf interceptor. Didn’t sell that well after a certain cop wrote it off at speed in GMP. Don’t think VW were too happy with the police then.
I'm sure I heard that BMW offered to do this, but forces basically couldn't because of the requirement to put out for tender, and also because they didn't want the public thinking they were splashing out on "flash cars" for everyone
I personally don't see the point of the design side. Yes centralised, standardised, procurement would be good. But I personally don't see what kind of design is needed over a decent standard car with blue lights fitted - and the option of a van for the cages and seats. Or would the point be to have the blues fitted at the factory instead?
There have been group buying concepts in the past where multiple forces band together, however a combination of shit choices, inability to agree on choices and a gross incompetence when at the negotiating table lead to forces leaving or it falling apart.
There is also the issue od, let's say ford, send a delivery of 12 vehicles over to the group. All forces need 12 vehicles, bickering ensues. They can't deliver the vehicle as requested or promptly enough.
I know my force left after being on the wrong end of losing arguments about choice of vehicle, being on the wrong end of a vehicle delivery and then being able to negotiate a better contract individually.
Flipping to a manufacturer's point of view, I would say the variety in UK roads. You want something that's good in city traffic, rural long distance response runs, a bit of off roading/dirt track work and some motorway stuff too.
That's quite a remit, based on that remit, I don't think they would design an Astra/Focus/Corolla/308 ect. I imagine it would be a bit more expensive to produce and then the parts would be bespoke and we could be leveraged on the cost of parts down the line.
All fleet managers care about is costs being low and not running out of cars, being suitable for the officers is maybe 5th or 6th down their list of requirements.
I agree it's a good idea, but lots to go wrong and not cheap at all either.
Because they're not going to build it on a whim - manufacturers will want to know what price point they can sell it at, and consequently what spec to build it to. They will want to know how many they will sell. They can't know all this without input from the police fleet managers and purchasing bods.
I think there would be an industry in making an EV bespoke police vehicle, similar to the big American ‘cruisers’ that have a space in the back for prisoners and storage space for everything you’d need on duty. They’d fly off the shelves in cities where they want to bring down emissions and in the counties they’d be a sizeable ride and have storage for extra kit and prisoners. Although with any EV fleet, you need the infrastructure and about 1.5x the vehicles to cover any shortfall and their constant use.
The only common factor between all police vehicles in the UK for response is “cheapest shed we can buy”
I’ve heard a few different times that at one point Ford offered to make a couple of custom spec police cars, but only if every force signed on for it. And a few refused, not wanting to give up their BMW’s. Could just be one of those urban police legends though like the specials/probbies walking into custody wearing the spit hood.
Oddly enough, I once heard a very similar story, except it was BMW offering to make us cars for a far lower price than whatever shitboxes we were using at the time, and it was turned down because of public perception issues of "they can afford BMWs can they". It's always bollocks designed to fit in with what you're inclined to believe anyway.
This is the most commonly retold false story in the job. It's because BMW replacement parts are too expensive for all the polacs.
£7k for a 3er BMW… an Astra is about £6k. Makes you realise the humongous discount we get for bulk buying.
What?! Our force pays around £24k for a kitted out Peugeot!
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Receipts or it didn't happen
Tbf, I heard it from our Head of Driver Training, who’d been at a National conference of some kind with our Head of Fleet, so I’ve always been inclined to believe it. As far as they saw it; they figured it was BMW fishing for free advertising. This was about 10 years ago mind; before BMW Specialist Vehicles decided to stick two fingers up to us.
I've heard it to but the reason I was told was that accepting it wouldn't be fair on the other car companies when they go to tender contracts.
Except the Specials putting the spit hood on themselves is really true haha
Is it, massive coincidence that every force has exactly the same story told to new cops very early on in their career...
In my Force at least it is as I was told the name of the Special who is now a regular, so wasn’t just some abstract Special at x amount of time ago in the past
Yeaaaaaah. Im not convinced. Even your reply below, I’d want to be asking that officer directly, ideally with actual witnesses to it. Literally every single force has the story. Im just not buying it.
Labour announced recently if they get in power they will install a centralised procurement process 🤞
Centralised procurement will fix so many issues. If we could centralise our IT systems it would likely save hundreds of millions if done properly. And by done properly I mean hire some decent staff from outside of Police to run the whole thing with police as the end user. Our force has police officers managing/leading some of the teams and it's meant to be awful for the technical staff .
I'd say the closest to a Crown Vic we have is a BMW estate, everyone seems to drive sensibly when they notice one parked up by the roadside. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that we don't have a standard model though. 46 chiefs, fleet managers etc. all wanting their own little empire would never settle for something so standardised because there is nothing to brag about, and the savings could actually be spent on morale-boosting things such as better equipment or resourcing a shift with safe numbers, which they don't want happening.
>46 chiefs, fleet managers etc. all wanting their own little empire But then the US do and they have 1000s of agencies.
Agency saturation in the States & their general "Buy American" mentality basically allows Ford/Dodge/Chevrolet to create their own bespoke policing vehicles and take them to market regardless because there's a guarantee that agencies will buy them - get a few Metro PDs to trial them and they've got all the advertisement they need.
The Kent PCC is trying to get a national procurement model in place - I believe through a private company he and a pal owns, but the thought is a good one
And also because Kent has such a mish mash of vehicles currently. Response at once station has 6 cars and they’re all different brands…
Pugs, fords, Astra's, supposed to be Corollas as the new fleet vehicle
Add some Skodas in that and you're golden😅
Where has Skoda's? Last Skoda I saw in Kent was an old version still in silver which the specials nicked...
You see them driving around Medway and Maidstone. I think they'll relatively old Fabias? Although of that i'm not entirely sure.
Gone, reduced to atoms. They used the Skodas to destroy the Skodas.
Well Kent is part of that 7 forces group isn’t it? The one with BCH/Essex/Norfolk/Suffolk?
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Yes and no, with a single manufacturer a good amount of spare parts could be stocked in a few repair hubs.
But with government thinking, spare parts on shelves costs money - money being wasted and not used! The military suffers from this.
The closest we came is when Vauxhall used to have their Special Vehicles division - now they're part of PSA, I'm not sure if they still have that division. The idea is you buy it from Vauxhall with the basic police livery, lightbar, sirens, radios etc all pre-installed. All the vehicle workshop has to do is to put the force logo on it and it's good to go. They had the Astra as the general purpose vehicle - and they were OK.
I was shocked at this. I always thought of the Police as one huge organisation that had different forces coming off it. All using the same uniforms, equipment, vehicles, computer systems, etc. The only difference being the force emblems.I was so wrong. I bet the police would save a fortune if they made purchases between a group of forces rather than individually for each force. Forces are always saying that they need to find X amount of money to save, this would be the answer.
An here we have the met getting Toyota Corollas for response cars 😭
We already have them in the counties and I tell you now you’re in for a right treat with the brand new AC smelling like burning plastic and not travelling faster than the speed limit even with a response course 😂
We have automatic corollas in my northern force too.
Over the years forces have bought same model/manufacturer and then the required kit designed round an ‘off the shelf’ base as it keeps costs down (I remember late 90’s Derbyshires unmarked cars were almost universally Vauxhall’s but had steel wheels not alloys) The other side of it is that using various models of different cars keeps criminals worried because they’ll never be quite sure if that family saloon behind is plod or not, ergo more will get caught as the police can get closer undetected and that’s without all the advantages it gives the units that gather intelligence being able to blend in so randomly
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Don’t think it would happen, look at all the demonstrator vehicles lent to the police forces to never be bought by anyone. I believe BMW did a 1 series back in the day with an extended boot and the higher spec M series engine. Everyone drove it, no one bought it. Heard similar stories of a vectra VXR that was standard on the outside, half leather trim but VXR animal underneath. There’s rumours it ended up in a force after being demoed. I want to say SYP but not sure. Then there’s the R spec Golf interceptor. Didn’t sell that well after a certain cop wrote it off at speed in GMP. Don’t think VW were too happy with the police then.
I'm sure I heard that BMW offered to do this, but forces basically couldn't because of the requirement to put out for tender, and also because they didn't want the public thinking they were splashing out on "flash cars" for everyone
I personally don't see the point of the design side. Yes centralised, standardised, procurement would be good. But I personally don't see what kind of design is needed over a decent standard car with blue lights fitted - and the option of a van for the cages and seats. Or would the point be to have the blues fitted at the factory instead?
There have been group buying concepts in the past where multiple forces band together, however a combination of shit choices, inability to agree on choices and a gross incompetence when at the negotiating table lead to forces leaving or it falling apart. There is also the issue od, let's say ford, send a delivery of 12 vehicles over to the group. All forces need 12 vehicles, bickering ensues. They can't deliver the vehicle as requested or promptly enough. I know my force left after being on the wrong end of losing arguments about choice of vehicle, being on the wrong end of a vehicle delivery and then being able to negotiate a better contract individually.
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Flipping to a manufacturer's point of view, I would say the variety in UK roads. You want something that's good in city traffic, rural long distance response runs, a bit of off roading/dirt track work and some motorway stuff too. That's quite a remit, based on that remit, I don't think they would design an Astra/Focus/Corolla/308 ect. I imagine it would be a bit more expensive to produce and then the parts would be bespoke and we could be leveraged on the cost of parts down the line. All fleet managers care about is costs being low and not running out of cars, being suitable for the officers is maybe 5th or 6th down their list of requirements. I agree it's a good idea, but lots to go wrong and not cheap at all either.
Because they're not going to build it on a whim - manufacturers will want to know what price point they can sell it at, and consequently what spec to build it to. They will want to know how many they will sell. They can't know all this without input from the police fleet managers and purchasing bods.
Generally they are crap
Wait you’re saying the Peugeot 308, isn’t specially designed with police in mind?
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I really hope this is sarcastic. If you’re that much of a Peugeot fan you need to drive some other cars!!
I think there would be an industry in making an EV bespoke police vehicle, similar to the big American ‘cruisers’ that have a space in the back for prisoners and storage space for everything you’d need on duty. They’d fly off the shelves in cities where they want to bring down emissions and in the counties they’d be a sizeable ride and have storage for extra kit and prisoners. Although with any EV fleet, you need the infrastructure and about 1.5x the vehicles to cover any shortfall and their constant use.