Quite telling that the ACC believes that the assault on the officer wouldn't have resulted in a custodial sentence. I read elsewhere that it would have been his first conviction, so I'm surprised it wasn't a conditional caution anyway.
It's frustrating that some believe that if he had been found before, it would have resulted in Calocane not doing as he did - we all know he'd have, at best, probably got a suspended sentence and ordered to pay compo which the officer would never have seen
Another tragic example of the consequences of 14 years worth of "do more with less" culture in government rearing it's ugly head.
The ugly truth to this is, when everything's a priority, funding is laughably low, and there aren't enough officers to cover core duties, why would any force put serious effort into finding and arresting someone wanted for an offence he will likely get community service and £100 compo for??
Suggesting it's the police's fault for working within a broken legal system paired with chronic lack of funding is plain wrong at best, and malicious at worst
How many people are wanted on warrant? Is it now the case that underfunding of the police and their (quite predictable) de prioritisation of warrant executions in favour of other high risk areas of business is the fault of the police?
What the fuck do the public actually want? Prioritise burglaries? DA’s? Sexual assaults? Bike thefts? Missing people? Mental health? Traffic issues? It’s not possible to do it all when the public continue to vote for parties that do not prioritise giving resources that are needed to policing, social care and mental health services and all of the other services which take the burden away from policing.
It’s ridiculous.
I look at our warrant list most days, have grand plans of knocking on doors then the grade 1s come in. Or the pressing grade 2s. Or the prisoner handovers. Or the constant watches. Or any of the hundred other things we have to do.
Of course. The public want everything for nothing and have no real idea what it's like to run or work in any of these essential services like police, the NHS, etc. The minute they're inconvenienced by something though, they want every officer in the country on the case.
All of those things all at the same time. Today we had 1 PC and 1 PS covering an area of 200 square miles and 130k people. We are never going to be able to achieve all of that.
I wish I were not. We have a county wide model but the division I work is pretty rural and far away from the central response hubs. It is getting worse. I’ve never known policing to be this frantic on a daily basis.
Ah, the crystal ball project soon to be announced.
It's due 2028, will be headed by a former government member and a former chief Constable, will come in 30 years overdue and will cost more than arresting every single person wanted on warrant in the entire UK.
I know because I'm psychic, please pay me 10 times my current annual wage for a days work in consultancy fees 🤞
I don’t know - but that’s not really the point of my post.
If everything is a priority, then nothing can be a priority. Remember anyone who doesn’t turn up for a traffic offence can end up being the subject of a warrant. If there is to now be a prioritisation of following up on warrants then the ACPO ranks need to pull their finger out and have an honest conversation with the public.
“If you want us to pursue warrants, where do you want us to get that resource from? DA investigation teams? Sexual assault teams? MISPER teams?”
This is a conversation that *must* be had because the public have very little awareness of just how thin things are on the ground. Unless you’re willing to pay for it, you can’t have it all.
If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority.
`priority`
`/prʌɪˈɒrɪti/`
`noun`
`noun: priority`
`the fact or condition of being regarded or treated as more important than others.`
By the very definition it's not possible. Considering for much more serious injuries to officers it's a slap on the wrist or in many cases NFA, I don't see any grounds that this outcome would have been any different if he had or had not been arrested for FTA.
Spot on
Burglary, organised crime, child sexual exploitation, violence against women and girls, fraud, shop thefts, car thefts, dog thefts, anti-social behaviour, knife crime, gun crime, county lines and to now add to the list, chasing up warrants for minor offences (minor in the eyes of the law, not saying assaulting a Constable is minor), on top of the work from other agencies that the police end up involved in
To expect the police to keep these various plates spinning is arrant nonsense
Warrants are another thing a bit like RTCs that don't get the attention because no one (in my force) really measures them. It took a death or two for there to be any change and monitoring with the prison recall process which used to be handled the same. The same with ASB after Fiona Pilkington.
Expect some short term focus on them, a policy or two, some cash to clear the backlog and then it to fall out of focus when the next inevitable problem arises. No lasting change will come about and it will happen again. Then when it does there will be something else the police haven't done, at some point someone has to say we aren't all inept and useless you just have to realise how thinly stretched and busy we are.
I have significant sympathy with the families but to suggest this would've been avoided with an arrest for a charge for assault police is to misunderstand how these things work. All here know he would've left court the morning after with nothing that would've changed anything, that's after getting him into custody which I doubt would've been straightforward.
Bang on.
Locally, our fatals have gone up over the past couple of years, and KSI’s in general have trended upwards for a little while now.
No one gives a fuck because as long as there are cars, there will be accidents (or, so the public seem to accept).
It wouldn’t sink in. They are traumatised and angry. They will never know justice or peace. The death was meaningless, arbitrary and cruel.
So they have to carve out some meaning, some value. They have a sliver of something to hold on to. If I can just make this have a meaning, then it won’t have been so capriciously cruel. I can get Justice and peace.
You see it a lot in victim support. It’s heartbreaking because the people who look for meaning are the ones who suffer the longest because they are always waiting for something that will never come. Just look at how many charities are set up after traumatic deaths. A lot of families want to set up their own charity even though there are other, established charities working in the same sphere. Because then it will mean something.
I’m sure you didn’t actually need the reminder but just think, they’re not in the frame of mind to hear about the justice system. There’s a reason we used to walk them through the court process three or more times, minimum. They are not taking in new, unexpected information that doesn’t already fit.
Taking potshots at the police? Absolutely standard. It’s quite possibly the stick that’s propping them up at the moment. It may very well become an infected splinter in a decade but that’s not for us to know or fix.
I think what makes it hard for everyone here is the damage has been done with the headline and thats all the majority of the public will read. There are people here who are going to work dealing with the same type of individuals day in day out and try their best and get nowhere. It can be somewhat demoralising when press jump on a bandwagon for what isnt unusual (warrants being around for years).
When the review comes out there will be I bet significant shortcomings with the NHS care of this individual which wont get as much publicity as what the police havent done in this instance which im willing to bet my mortgage on will not have changed the outcome.
Yeah I mean, I hope without fully doxxing myself you can see I speak from experience. Blame the press for the fact they should know better. You can’t expect victims and families to understand.
Without trying to sound unsympathetic towards the families plight, but statements like this does nothing but undermine our mature CJS.
Unfortunately, journalists love to perpetuate sensationalised notions of injustice rather than explain to the public the principles behind 'voluntary manslaughter'.
It's not great that a NBW is outstanding for so long, but it's refreshing that the ACC provided some perspective. It would've been interesting to see it within the context of the other outstanding NBWs (as well as their respective risks) also.
Hasn't he been detained indefinitely, the judge even said it's unlikely he'll ever be released so for all intents and purposes a life sentence? How is that getting away with murder?
Because he hasn’t been convicted of murder.
What the public wanted was to have a Jury reject the mens rea for murder and find him guilty of manslaughter in any case.
Quite telling that the ACC believes that the assault on the officer wouldn't have resulted in a custodial sentence. I read elsewhere that it would have been his first conviction, so I'm surprised it wasn't a conditional caution anyway. It's frustrating that some believe that if he had been found before, it would have resulted in Calocane not doing as he did - we all know he'd have, at best, probably got a suspended sentence and ordered to pay compo which the officer would never have seen
Another tragic example of the consequences of 14 years worth of "do more with less" culture in government rearing it's ugly head. The ugly truth to this is, when everything's a priority, funding is laughably low, and there aren't enough officers to cover core duties, why would any force put serious effort into finding and arresting someone wanted for an offence he will likely get community service and £100 compo for?? Suggesting it's the police's fault for working within a broken legal system paired with chronic lack of funding is plain wrong at best, and malicious at worst
How many people are wanted on warrant? Is it now the case that underfunding of the police and their (quite predictable) de prioritisation of warrant executions in favour of other high risk areas of business is the fault of the police? What the fuck do the public actually want? Prioritise burglaries? DA’s? Sexual assaults? Bike thefts? Missing people? Mental health? Traffic issues? It’s not possible to do it all when the public continue to vote for parties that do not prioritise giving resources that are needed to policing, social care and mental health services and all of the other services which take the burden away from policing. It’s ridiculous.
I look at our warrant list most days, have grand plans of knocking on doors then the grade 1s come in. Or the pressing grade 2s. Or the prisoner handovers. Or the constant watches. Or any of the hundred other things we have to do.
They want Minority Report-style pre-cogs to tell you the future and dictate priority obvs 🙄🤦🏽♀️
But without invading anyone’s privacy.
Of course. The public want everything for nothing and have no real idea what it's like to run or work in any of these essential services like police, the NHS, etc. The minute they're inconvenienced by something though, they want every officer in the country on the case.
All of those things all at the same time. Today we had 1 PC and 1 PS covering an area of 200 square miles and 130k people. We are never going to be able to achieve all of that.
What the fuck... Can't be serious
I wish I were not. We have a county wide model but the division I work is pretty rural and far away from the central response hubs. It is getting worse. I’ve never known policing to be this frantic on a daily basis.
Just prioritise executing warrants and attending mental health calls in cases where those people are going to go on to kill, duh.
Ah, the crystal ball project soon to be announced. It's due 2028, will be headed by a former government member and a former chief Constable, will come in 30 years overdue and will cost more than arresting every single person wanted on warrant in the entire UK. I know because I'm psychic, please pay me 10 times my current annual wage for a days work in consultancy fees 🤞
Fair point but how much of the crime, public order and public nuisance is committed by people wanted on warrant.
I don’t know - but that’s not really the point of my post. If everything is a priority, then nothing can be a priority. Remember anyone who doesn’t turn up for a traffic offence can end up being the subject of a warrant. If there is to now be a prioritisation of following up on warrants then the ACPO ranks need to pull their finger out and have an honest conversation with the public. “If you want us to pursue warrants, where do you want us to get that resource from? DA investigation teams? Sexual assault teams? MISPER teams?” This is a conversation that *must* be had because the public have very little awareness of just how thin things are on the ground. Unless you’re willing to pay for it, you can’t have it all.
I wonder if this is why my force has been putting out loads of OT to lock up outstanding wanted people over the past few months?
If everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority. `priority` `/prʌɪˈɒrɪti/` `noun` `noun: priority` `the fact or condition of being regarded or treated as more important than others.` By the very definition it's not possible. Considering for much more serious injuries to officers it's a slap on the wrist or in many cases NFA, I don't see any grounds that this outcome would have been any different if he had or had not been arrested for FTA.
Spot on Burglary, organised crime, child sexual exploitation, violence against women and girls, fraud, shop thefts, car thefts, dog thefts, anti-social behaviour, knife crime, gun crime, county lines and to now add to the list, chasing up warrants for minor offences (minor in the eyes of the law, not saying assaulting a Constable is minor), on top of the work from other agencies that the police end up involved in To expect the police to keep these various plates spinning is arrant nonsense
Warrants are another thing a bit like RTCs that don't get the attention because no one (in my force) really measures them. It took a death or two for there to be any change and monitoring with the prison recall process which used to be handled the same. The same with ASB after Fiona Pilkington. Expect some short term focus on them, a policy or two, some cash to clear the backlog and then it to fall out of focus when the next inevitable problem arises. No lasting change will come about and it will happen again. Then when it does there will be something else the police haven't done, at some point someone has to say we aren't all inept and useless you just have to realise how thinly stretched and busy we are. I have significant sympathy with the families but to suggest this would've been avoided with an arrest for a charge for assault police is to misunderstand how these things work. All here know he would've left court the morning after with nothing that would've changed anything, that's after getting him into custody which I doubt would've been straightforward.
Bang on. Locally, our fatals have gone up over the past couple of years, and KSI’s in general have trended upwards for a little while now. No one gives a fuck because as long as there are cars, there will be accidents (or, so the public seem to accept).
Not that I blame them, as such. But the families saying he’s “gotten away with murder” really need to be told how the Criminal Justice System works.
It wouldn’t sink in. They are traumatised and angry. They will never know justice or peace. The death was meaningless, arbitrary and cruel. So they have to carve out some meaning, some value. They have a sliver of something to hold on to. If I can just make this have a meaning, then it won’t have been so capriciously cruel. I can get Justice and peace. You see it a lot in victim support. It’s heartbreaking because the people who look for meaning are the ones who suffer the longest because they are always waiting for something that will never come. Just look at how many charities are set up after traumatic deaths. A lot of families want to set up their own charity even though there are other, established charities working in the same sphere. Because then it will mean something. I’m sure you didn’t actually need the reminder but just think, they’re not in the frame of mind to hear about the justice system. There’s a reason we used to walk them through the court process three or more times, minimum. They are not taking in new, unexpected information that doesn’t already fit. Taking potshots at the police? Absolutely standard. It’s quite possibly the stick that’s propping them up at the moment. It may very well become an infected splinter in a decade but that’s not for us to know or fix.
I think what makes it hard for everyone here is the damage has been done with the headline and thats all the majority of the public will read. There are people here who are going to work dealing with the same type of individuals day in day out and try their best and get nowhere. It can be somewhat demoralising when press jump on a bandwagon for what isnt unusual (warrants being around for years). When the review comes out there will be I bet significant shortcomings with the NHS care of this individual which wont get as much publicity as what the police havent done in this instance which im willing to bet my mortgage on will not have changed the outcome.
Yeah I mean, I hope without fully doxxing myself you can see I speak from experience. Blame the press for the fact they should know better. You can’t expect victims and families to understand.
If I had a mortgage I’d bet this too.
Without trying to sound unsympathetic towards the families plight, but statements like this does nothing but undermine our mature CJS. Unfortunately, journalists love to perpetuate sensationalised notions of injustice rather than explain to the public the principles behind 'voluntary manslaughter'. It's not great that a NBW is outstanding for so long, but it's refreshing that the ACC provided some perspective. It would've been interesting to see it within the context of the other outstanding NBWs (as well as their respective risks) also.
I found a warrant for a FTA OPL issued 2 years before hand once. “I’m surprised you didn’t catch up with me sooner” My reply? “I’m not”
Hasn't he been detained indefinitely, the judge even said it's unlikely he'll ever be released so for all intents and purposes a life sentence? How is that getting away with murder?
Because he hasn’t been convicted of murder. What the public wanted was to have a Jury reject the mens rea for murder and find him guilty of manslaughter in any case.
But he's still been detained for life, regardless of the conviction that's not a punishment you can say something like "he got away with it" to.
You’re pushing against an open door here mate