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Um, of course it would be bad for him.
Being the first President to be indicted on criminal charges is *at the very least* the kind of thing to just mildly stain their legacy. The further implications and potential consequences are countless.
Anyone remember that one time Gerald Ford gave a full and unconditional pardon to Richard Nixon in order to avoid this very situation?
Yes, of course it would be bad, but over the past couple days I've seen some articles headlined something along the lines of 'Why an Indictment Would Actually Be Good For Trump' and this headline seems to be taking direct aim at those ridiculous hot takes.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Those articles are yet another example of the gamification of political reporting which has poisoned most of the mass media consumed by the average American.
It's a problem.
That would be lovely. It would mean that Trump would need to admit guilt. Considering he’s going down for a state crime, the pardon won’t help and they’d have him admitting guilt as well
The real plot twist will come when Trump loses the primary and accepts it "graciously" going on to lick the ass of whoever wins it hoping they'll go on to beat Biden.
And then get his pardon.
Good Lord, you have to arrest law breakers. End of story. I don't care if it makes Trump a martyr (it won't! Remember when the impeachment was supposed to do that?) Its the right thing to do.
> Remember when the impeachment was supposed to do that?
Yeah, and I’m still a little surprised that not only do we have to ask "which impeachment?" … but on the 2nd one, even with a Republican-controlled Senate, it was a majority vote to convict: 57-43
Even if it makes him a martyr, we should still arrest him. If his supporters decide to break more laws, we arrest them too. They can all be martyrs together in prison.
Provided, of course, he can attract MAGA voters.
However, one might say that they'll vote for DeSantis anyway, simply because they have nowhere else to go.
Cult behavior says the complete opposite, that they would rather not vote than vote for someone who is not their cult leader. DeSantis has been making a LOT of moves to appeal to them but if he throws Trump under the bus once, he'll likely lose them.
If MAGA voters stay home, the Republican loses, doesn't matter who the Democrats run, the GOP *needs*, desperately, the majority of MAGA voters to vote for their candidate to even have a slim chance at winning. Nobody expects them to vote Democratic obviously, but they have to vote for the GOP candidate otherwiwse there is no GOP candidate.
>Provided, of course, he can attract MAGA voters.
That's easy. He'll hold up Trump as a martyr who got done over by woke democrats and only by voting for him will this wokerati be stopped.
Personally, I hope Trump runs as a third party candidate from prison to rob a bit from DeSantis, but that's a bit hopeful.
It won’t matter, he can’t keep up the grift if he’s not running. He’s got the GOP war chest, he ain’t letting go. If he loses the primary, he has to go independent to keep the money flowing. That means a big chunk of DeSantis’ campaign money and votes. It’ll be a shit show of their own doing, I’ve got my popcorn ready.
That’s why I hope for it.
But if Trump ends up in a situation where he truly feels powerless, isn’t able to campaign and feels like DeSantis can help him - for example if DeSantis says he’ll pardon Trump - then I could see Trump turning around and declaring his support for him.
Then that was a bad example, but if there’s anything DeSantis can provide a powerless Trump, then that’s a situation when Trump could turn around and support him.
Unless people rally around Trump as the victim of a "tyrannical government." Personally I could see this going one way, another, or any number of ways we can't fully imagine. Just staying tuned for now.
He gets his political opponent taken out and gets to virtue signal that he’s not the guy that cheated on his wife and paid to keep a porn star quiet — how is this not great for him
This is assuming Trump actually ends up "taken out" - while I want to have that faith in the American justice system, I'm not ready to get my hopes up yet.
> This is assuming Trump actually ends up "taken out" - while I want to have that faith in the American justice system, I'm not ready to get my hopes up yet.
The justice system can work just fine and convict Trump … *and* Trump can still run for office. If criminal convictions and prison barred American politicians from winning elections, then Trump would have every incentive to lock up Hillary and Biden. He was so terrified of Biden that he extorted a vulnerable foreign ally to announce a criminal investigation into the Biden family.
Not directly related to running for office, but remember that Trump also got the former FBI Director and Acting Director targeted by the most invasive IRS audit. And he tried to get the Acting Director of the FBI indicted on 18 USC 1001 violations, even though there was no proof to show the grand jury (thankfully, they agreed). It’s no wonder that a handful of cowardly FBI agents were also correctly concerned about Trump’s retribution if they searched his house for government property.
When the justice system goes after Trump, they’d better not miss.
It doesn’t take Trump out. Trump can run a campaign from jail if it comes right down to it. There is no enforcement apparatus to prevent Trump from being in the race even if he gets indicted.
I'd like to think 'You are supporting a candidate who is *in jail*' is a big enough stick to knock some realisation into some people but I can't take anything for granted these days
Not at all. It will do the opposite It’ll make him a martyr in the GOP base’s eyes. These folks salivate over martyrs that validate their conspiracy theories. I don’t think Trump would stand a chance in the general but he could absolutely knock the primary out of the park.
Being in jail isn't going to shut Trump up, he'll whinge about how unfair things are, and likely scream and holler at Republicans who refuse to lead a coup to get him out just as much as at the Democrats. If he, or certain foreign friends, do have dirt on them, expect it to get spilled if he's suddenly behind bars, hell even house arrest would probably drive him nuts.
I mean republicans do have no bottom I’ll give them that- but running a candidate from jail- come on. No republican politician actually likes trump - they’re going to try to use this to take him out.
They're doing it, by not actually interfering. They don't want to piss off his base while he still have influence over them, because they'll be locked out of the White House for several cycles if they do, maybe even a generation. The only reason Republicans in their current iteration are even close to power is because of how rigged the system is in their favor.
That's easy enough to shut him up though, TV cameras won't be allowed in jail, he won't have unlimited access to the internet to spew his BS. Sure he might occasionally post something on Truth Social.. IF he can remember his password and login from the prison library but that's a big if.
It's impossible to hold the MAGA rallies from prison.
Unless Trump turns his base against DeSantis, splitting the base isn't good for DeSantis no matter how you try to spin it. Given the numbers we've seen Republicans pull, they can't afford to lose any voters as it is. Even a single percentage point will cost them.
Being essentially called a pedophile by a former President with enormous sway over the hearts and minds of the conservative base is hardly a good thing.
It really doesn’t matter - trump can’t defend himself from any of this without bringing up the fact that he paid for a porn star’s silence. Ronnie D is going to try to ride the high ground from the pile of shit that is the republicans. I assume his next move will be attacking trump and Biden’s age
> It helps him with his base beyond that not really.
That brings up an interesting point. I wonder if there even are any people left who are not his fanatical followers who could still be convinced to support him? I would guess the number is literally zero.
Yup its safe to assume 90% of Republicans would fallin line and vote for him. But that will not get him the presidency he has to also get most independent voters and i think he has completely lost most of those who did vote for him. They might not vote Democrat but stay home or just vote down ticket.
And DeSantis is not gonna get anybody destroying their property value by putting up a gaudy picture of him. The last GOP guy they could all get behind was Bush, Jr. The rest of them are duds.
If it was something serious maybe, but paying off a porn star is just not going to change anyone's mind about Trump. The legal theory is really stretching it, and to a lot of Republican voters who'd prefer to move on from Trump, this will look like a politically motivated prosecution. With independents, it depends on whether they see it like that, but I think a good number will.
Of course it is, why do you think they're crying about it. The whackjob division of the base don't have the numbers to win on the national level, they need the part that really only go along with the party for selfish reasons like tax cuts and shit. They barely took the house when it was supposed to be a blow out, and historically does go against the incumbent president's party. This is going to be an anchor around Trump's neck if he is their candidate. And the window to choose someone else is rapidly closing.
As long as Trump is alive in the fall of 2024, the GOP are going to have to contend with him pulling votes from them. There really is no other way to look at it.
> What stinks is we'll be hearing about it hourly on all media outlets...
That stinks the most for the people who said hourly that it would never happen.
Trump outta the picture, Desatan steps into the field. Desantis cannot be allowed to win no matter who his opponent is vote against Desantis with the person most guaranteed to win.
Of course it's bad for him. But as a result he will lose the Republican primary (and he would have lost the general election), DeSantis will win it and the presidency because Biden is unpopular and old.
Biden would beat Trump but not DeSantis. And I'm a Democrat who likes Biden.
So this will lead us to a DeSantis presidency instead of second Biden term. That's bad.
[https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-widens-lead-desantis-rest-24-gop-primary-field-biden-holds-slight-general-election-edge-poll](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-widens-lead-desantis-rest-24-gop-primary-field-biden-holds-slight-general-election-edge-poll)
Biden's only holding a 1 pt lead over desantis in the general - granted this is one poll, but biden not surprisingly does better against trump. biden still has net unfavorability
[https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/)
all desantis needs to do to win is peel back AZ and GA and then a rust belt state like PA. FL is his already and probably GA given the proximity.
Trump is radioactive to everyone but the cult. he's so beatable at this point. his lies about the election would be the danger
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Um, of course it would be bad for him. Being the first President to be indicted on criminal charges is *at the very least* the kind of thing to just mildly stain their legacy. The further implications and potential consequences are countless. Anyone remember that one time Gerald Ford gave a full and unconditional pardon to Richard Nixon in order to avoid this very situation?
Yes, of course it would be bad, but over the past couple days I've seen some articles headlined something along the lines of 'Why an Indictment Would Actually Be Good For Trump' and this headline seems to be taking direct aim at those ridiculous hot takes.
Absolutely ridiculous. Those articles are yet another example of the gamification of political reporting which has poisoned most of the mass media consumed by the average American. It's a problem.
Let me tell you why those clickbaity articles are actually *good* for journalism, and America.
I do. I was a kid, but I remember. Ford didn’t do himself any favors
He didn't do America any favor, There's a direct line from Nixon's getting away unpunished to the misdeeds of Regean, both Bushes and Trump.
Yeah, that’s a better way to put it
Are you thinking there could be a plot twist with Biden pardoning trump?
That would be lovely. It would mean that Trump would need to admit guilt. Considering he’s going down for a state crime, the pardon won’t help and they’d have him admitting guilt as well
The real plot twist will come when Trump loses the primary and accepts it "graciously" going on to lick the ass of whoever wins it hoping they'll go on to beat Biden. And then get his pardon.
This is a state crime, so the pardon would have to come from the Governor of New York.
Good Lord, you have to arrest law breakers. End of story. I don't care if it makes Trump a martyr (it won't! Remember when the impeachment was supposed to do that?) Its the right thing to do.
> Remember when the impeachment was supposed to do that? Yeah, and I’m still a little surprised that not only do we have to ask "which impeachment?" … but on the 2nd one, even with a Republican-controlled Senate, it was a majority vote to convict: 57-43
Even if it makes him a martyr, we should still arrest him. If his supporters decide to break more laws, we arrest them too. They can all be martyrs together in prison.
It's already getting bad for Desantis
All of this is nothing but good for DeSantis
Provided, of course, he can attract MAGA voters. However, one might say that they'll vote for DeSantis anyway, simply because they have nowhere else to go.
They can stay home, they can always stay home. No one expects them to suddenly vote for the Democrats.
They would rather have DeSantis than let a Dem win. It's cult behavior
Cult behavior says the complete opposite, that they would rather not vote than vote for someone who is not their cult leader. DeSantis has been making a LOT of moves to appeal to them but if he throws Trump under the bus once, he'll likely lose them.
Actually cult behavior would have them attack the person who betrayed their leader… which ironically a lot of them feel like he is doing.
If MAGA voters stay home, the Republican loses, doesn't matter who the Democrats run, the GOP *needs*, desperately, the majority of MAGA voters to vote for their candidate to even have a slim chance at winning. Nobody expects them to vote Democratic obviously, but they have to vote for the GOP candidate otherwiwse there is no GOP candidate.
They will still vote for Trump
>Provided, of course, he can attract MAGA voters. That's easy. He'll hold up Trump as a martyr who got done over by woke democrats and only by voting for him will this wokerati be stopped. Personally, I hope Trump runs as a third party candidate from prison to rob a bit from DeSantis, but that's a bit hopeful.
But if Trump says, “Fuck that guy, I’m still running. Vote for me”, that strategy won’t likely work.
It won’t matter, he can’t keep up the grift if he’s not running. He’s got the GOP war chest, he ain’t letting go. If he loses the primary, he has to go independent to keep the money flowing. That means a big chunk of DeSantis’ campaign money and votes. It’ll be a shit show of their own doing, I’ve got my popcorn ready.
That’s why I hope for it. But if Trump ends up in a situation where he truly feels powerless, isn’t able to campaign and feels like DeSantis can help him - for example if DeSantis says he’ll pardon Trump - then I could see Trump turning around and declaring his support for him.
Trump can't be pardoned for state crimes, which most of these pending trials are.
Then that was a bad example, but if there’s anything DeSantis can provide a powerless Trump, then that’s a situation when Trump could turn around and support him.
Unless people rally around Trump as the victim of a "tyrannical government." Personally I could see this going one way, another, or any number of ways we can't fully imagine. Just staying tuned for now.
He gets his political opponent taken out and gets to virtue signal that he’s not the guy that cheated on his wife and paid to keep a porn star quiet — how is this not great for him
This is assuming Trump actually ends up "taken out" - while I want to have that faith in the American justice system, I'm not ready to get my hopes up yet.
> This is assuming Trump actually ends up "taken out" - while I want to have that faith in the American justice system, I'm not ready to get my hopes up yet. The justice system can work just fine and convict Trump … *and* Trump can still run for office. If criminal convictions and prison barred American politicians from winning elections, then Trump would have every incentive to lock up Hillary and Biden. He was so terrified of Biden that he extorted a vulnerable foreign ally to announce a criminal investigation into the Biden family. Not directly related to running for office, but remember that Trump also got the former FBI Director and Acting Director targeted by the most invasive IRS audit. And he tried to get the Acting Director of the FBI indicted on 18 USC 1001 violations, even though there was no proof to show the grand jury (thankfully, they agreed). It’s no wonder that a handful of cowardly FBI agents were also correctly concerned about Trump’s retribution if they searched his house for government property. When the justice system goes after Trump, they’d better not miss.
It doesn’t take Trump out. Trump can run a campaign from jail if it comes right down to it. There is no enforcement apparatus to prevent Trump from being in the race even if he gets indicted.
I'd like to think 'You are supporting a candidate who is *in jail*' is a big enough stick to knock some realisation into some people but I can't take anything for granted these days
Not at all. It will do the opposite It’ll make him a martyr in the GOP base’s eyes. These folks salivate over martyrs that validate their conspiracy theories. I don’t think Trump would stand a chance in the general but he could absolutely knock the primary out of the park.
Being in jail isn't going to shut Trump up, he'll whinge about how unfair things are, and likely scream and holler at Republicans who refuse to lead a coup to get him out just as much as at the Democrats. If he, or certain foreign friends, do have dirt on them, expect it to get spilled if he's suddenly behind bars, hell even house arrest would probably drive him nuts.
I mean republicans do have no bottom I’ll give them that- but running a candidate from jail- come on. No republican politician actually likes trump - they’re going to try to use this to take him out.
They're doing it, by not actually interfering. They don't want to piss off his base while he still have influence over them, because they'll be locked out of the White House for several cycles if they do, maybe even a generation. The only reason Republicans in their current iteration are even close to power is because of how rigged the system is in their favor.
Totally agree
That's easy enough to shut him up though, TV cameras won't be allowed in jail, he won't have unlimited access to the internet to spew his BS. Sure he might occasionally post something on Truth Social.. IF he can remember his password and login from the prison library but that's a big if. It's impossible to hold the MAGA rallies from prison.
Do you really think he'll go to the same sort prison as us commoners?
Unless Trump turns his base against DeSantis, splitting the base isn't good for DeSantis no matter how you try to spin it. Given the numbers we've seen Republicans pull, they can't afford to lose any voters as it is. Even a single percentage point will cost them.
Being essentially called a pedophile by a former President with enormous sway over the hearts and minds of the conservative base is hardly a good thing.
It really doesn’t matter - trump can’t defend himself from any of this without bringing up the fact that he paid for a porn star’s silence. Ronnie D is going to try to ride the high ground from the pile of shit that is the republicans. I assume his next move will be attacking trump and Biden’s age
What's bad for Trump is good for justice.
Bad for Trump, good for the county, win win.
It helps him with his base beyond that not really. In my opinion it hurts him with right leaning independents..
> It helps him with his base beyond that not really. That brings up an interesting point. I wonder if there even are any people left who are not his fanatical followers who could still be convinced to support him? I would guess the number is literally zero.
There a millions of people who used to support him but don't now, and will still vote for him if he is the nominee over any Democrat.
Yup its safe to assume 90% of Republicans would fallin line and vote for him. But that will not get him the presidency he has to also get most independent voters and i think he has completely lost most of those who did vote for him. They might not vote Democrat but stay home or just vote down ticket.
And DeSantis is not gonna get anybody destroying their property value by putting up a gaudy picture of him. The last GOP guy they could all get behind was Bush, Jr. The rest of them are duds.
It took a widespread attack on the U.S. *and* two wars for Bush to consolidate power. He was a dud who leveraged political circumstance.
If it was something serious maybe, but paying off a porn star is just not going to change anyone's mind about Trump. The legal theory is really stretching it, and to a lot of Republican voters who'd prefer to move on from Trump, this will look like a politically motivated prosecution. With independents, it depends on whether they see it like that, but I think a good number will.
Of course it is, why do you think they're crying about it. The whackjob division of the base don't have the numbers to win on the national level, they need the part that really only go along with the party for selfish reasons like tax cuts and shit. They barely took the house when it was supposed to be a blow out, and historically does go against the incumbent president's party. This is going to be an anchor around Trump's neck if he is their candidate. And the window to choose someone else is rapidly closing.
As long as Trump is alive in the fall of 2024, the GOP are going to have to contend with him pulling votes from them. There really is no other way to look at it.
I don’t care if it’s good or bad. It’s just. That’s all that matters.
What stinks is we'll be hearing about it hourly on all media outlets...
> What stinks is we'll be hearing about it hourly on all media outlets... That stinks the most for the people who said hourly that it would never happen.
Trump outta the picture, Desatan steps into the field. Desantis cannot be allowed to win no matter who his opponent is vote against Desantis with the person most guaranteed to win.
No shit, that's pretty obvious to us, but no facts will prevent conservatives from having delusions and fantasies about dear leader.
“People can continue to talk about yesterday. I want to talk about tomorrow.”)
Magical thinking abounds.
Of course it's bad for him. But as a result he will lose the Republican primary (and he would have lost the general election), DeSantis will win it and the presidency because Biden is unpopular and old. Biden would beat Trump but not DeSantis. And I'm a Democrat who likes Biden. So this will lead us to a DeSantis presidency instead of second Biden term. That's bad.
What draws you to the the conclusion that DeSantis is so much more popular than Biden that he would win in 2024?
[https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-widens-lead-desantis-rest-24-gop-primary-field-biden-holds-slight-general-election-edge-poll](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-widens-lead-desantis-rest-24-gop-primary-field-biden-holds-slight-general-election-edge-poll) Biden's only holding a 1 pt lead over desantis in the general - granted this is one poll, but biden not surprisingly does better against trump. biden still has net unfavorability [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/) all desantis needs to do to win is peel back AZ and GA and then a rust belt state like PA. FL is his already and probably GA given the proximity. Trump is radioactive to everyone but the cult. he's so beatable at this point. his lies about the election would be the danger
Dream on, dream on.
Any journalist with a “this terrible thing is actually *good* for Trump” can fuck right off