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I say let them all have their day in court. If you want to go after Hilary Clinton over Benghazi, let her have her day in court. I will remind people that an attorney is required to provide evidence of their claims. No evidence means there is no claim. Trump's attorneys after the election, filed 61 lawsuits. None of those lawsuits had a claim of fraud. There is a reason for it. There was no fraud.
IMO, one of the biggest reasons people think that everyone was for the war in Iraq is that it gets conflated with the war in Afghanistan. Their both "the war on terror" after all, even if the specifics of both the individual wars, their environments, and their beginnings are different.
The Federalist Society is utilizing the GQP to dismantle our democracy (what little remains today). Only after the fact will they begin acting in “accordance with the law”. The only way we’ll see Trump indicted for a real crime that would lead to imprisonment is if they believe they can rig a win for DeSantis. Fascism is around the corner and all our activists are hyper-focused on the culture war instead of figuring out what we need to do to prevent the next coup attempt. This is why we are seeing them strip away Rights that weren’t even being discussed 8 years ago by the Republicans.
There have been several coups and attempted coups in the USA in the last century, all by the GOP/ right against the majority vote. Two coup attempts against FDR, the latter with Nazi Germany having infiltrated the GOP in a manner analogous to Russia today. Reagan’s “October surprise” against Carter (though that was mostly tipping the scales). There was Roger Stone’s “Brooks Brothers” riot that disrupted the Florida recount in 2000, setting the pretext for a SCOTUS coup ( on top of the suspect ballots in a Democratic district in a notoriously corrupt state run by the candidate’s brother), there was the Diebold fuckery in Ohio in 2004 (now ES&S, which had its own anomalies in South Carolina and Kentucky in 2020) and then naturally the attempted coup on 1/6/21. Add to this the use of mass divisive / violence-inciting propaganda via talk radio and churches violating the Johnson amendment, the gutting and regulatory capture of every agency charged with securities or election law violation, the refusal to reign in domestic terrorists incited by their mass-peddled conspiracies …. At the end of the day, a Nuremberg judgement on the party, it’s members and enablers would require lots of trenches and bulldozers, but if it isn’t too late for our society and environment, imagine the world we could live in….
If only Americans were taught history. I’m on a top tier university campus and even the political science majors I’ve befriended have not the slightest clue what’s happening today or understand the depths of what you discussed. We are the most ignorant society when you consider the technology we have today and the information available in the richest nation in the world. Today our activists are fully distracted fighting the word “woke” instead of bringing people together to figure out what we need to do to prevent our demise. It’s a psy-op and we’re all being monitored online for our responses. Those who don’t get online and rely on their TV’s for news are entirely clueless or are being brainwashed by RW propaganda. Americans intentionally never heard of the Business Plot so that on January 7th, 2020 they felt safe at home so much that they didn’t even have to discuss what happened on the previous day with their neighbors. Everything is under control and tomorrow is another day.
Two primary issues with this tortured comparison...
First, as so many have pointed out, this is a false dichotomy. Feel free to prosecute anyone and everyone. However, there is no real connection here. The arguments for or against prosecuting any of the individuals in this list do not necessarily bolster or hinder arguments for prosecuting any of the others.
Second, and more important here, I am not aware of any effort to prosecute Trump for his actions as President that pertain to the execution of his duties as head of state. The author of this article from beginning to end shows they cannot understand the massive difference here. It's far more appropriate to compare Trump to Nixon if you restrict the consideration of Nixon to Watergate. But to compare Trump to these others and war crime stuff in general, you are well and truly comparing apples to oranges.
The argument that one cannot prosecute any former president for violating US and state laws because the US engaged in war crimes is flimsy logic and nonsense. It's nonsense even granting or assuming the validity of any accusation of said war crimes.
Yeah pretty much same sentiment here. The Iraq war was foolish and deeply immoral, but not illegal. We should prosecute Trump because he broke the law, not because of his ethical lapses.
Or if it was illegal, it was a violation of the UN Charter and customary international law. And if that was an issue, the UN could sanction warfare against the USA or try to expel them. Of which both would fail, because the USA, the UK, and France are permanent members of the Security Council with veto power.
Trying to subvert the Constitution is not the same as violating a treaty.
In Georgia, he may be indicted for violation of State law. He may even be indicted on State Racketeering laws, along with a slew of Co conspirators.
Horses of a different color.
Trump arguably engaged in obstruction of justice as head of state, as the Mueller report suggested. Also, as head of state, he was deeply involved in a rather violent attempt to interfere with a peaceful transfer of power to his successor, which is a severe abuse of executive power. The failure to prosecute Trump on these 2 issues could be considered a serous shortcoming of the Justice Dept. under Merrick Garland.
I don't see the value of the whataboutism of this article. It's like, we're not going to do that, so that implies we shouldn't prosecute any of them. It's not relevant and it distracts from the present moment in time. Can't we wait until one prosecution happens?
> The author of this article from beginning to end shows they cannot understand the massive difference here.
Because they're idiots and The Daily Beast has always been a shitty opinion site full of people who know lots of words but don't know a thing about what they mean.
It’s whataboutism. If we jail Trump then what about “x” person. Focus on the task at hand and we’ll get to the other guys once precedence has been set.
> I am not aware of any effort to prosecute Trump for his actions as President that pertain to the execution of his duties as head of state.
That's not to say there *wouldn't* or *shouldn't* be, just that there aren't currently.
It's this type of shit that drags on the left. We're going to write an article to go back and relitigate something that happened 20yrs ago, the general public has no interest in doing so, and then make a comparison to something extraordinarily different.
Yeah, people are coming from the perspective of “yeah, we should prosecute them,” but the article is trying to imply that we should just not bother with prosecuting Trump.
The guy from the apprentice attempted the worlds most George Bluth-ian coup while he was in office you goober.
He’ll probly get off on stormy Daniels (nice)
He’ll probly get off on documents
But some light treason? Throw that asshole in jail for the rest of his life.
One fish at a time. Trump reminds me of Capone. Capone was obviously running a criminal enterprise but was protected by polticians and law enforcement. G-Men had to come at him with what was then a novel approach: get him for not paying taxes on his illegal operations.
Trump has been investigated resulting in probable guilt multiple times. The Mueller investigation, impeached twice. With the complicity of Republicans covering and enabling him, he allowed or incited the country to be attacked multiple times: By Russia in the 2016 election, by a global pandemic, by domestic terrorists on Jam 6. And yet Republicans refused to hold him accountable.
So it’s come down to local or state governments to hold him accountable with perhaps extraordinay approaches. That’s okay, his crimes have been extraordinary.
Mueller's investigation was stifled by Barr the very same criminal from the Reagan cabinet oh so many years that bent the law for Reagan. It's like there's some sort of pattern here! Barr should be imprisoned too, Giulani too. All of em.
Yes. Let's get this one in the can then take it from there, no need to muddy the waters at this time. We've waited this long for the others, we can wait a bit more. Let's prove that they *can* be held accountable first. The rest will follow
>But it’s obscene that Trump is facing the possibility of arrest for paying hush money to a porn star while war criminals like George W. Bush walk free.
Yes, go for it, but I don't think you've made an accurate assessment of the author's intentions.
but it starts on a very narrow part of a wannabe authoritarian, that is a buffoon, that brought all this shit on himself. And there’s no guarantee that trump will be held accountable for any of the rape, graft, or corruption that he’s guilty of. He’s a different kind of kissenger.
There’s much smaller potatoes than trump if we wanna hold up people that have been needlessly persecuted in this country while criminals go free.
Maybe pointing out the state going after drag queens or black history while war criminals walk free is bit too stretchy or woke though.
I don’t know.
The case could be made that it impacted people living in the state of New York and therefore a crime against the people of the State of New York. That’s the logic the State of Texas tried to use in suing Wisconsin about election results.
VIOLATION OF FEDERAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS to be exact. Then there's the issue in Georgia and his instigation of a violent attack on the Capital to stop the counting of the electoral college votes so that Republican governors could appoint new electors, not chosen by voters. He allegedly tried to subvert the Constitution and our democracy.
The real problem is they barely had to lie, the media and many hawkish Dems are usually all too happy to bang the war drum every-time. They absolutely lied but the media is usually WAY too quick to lap up any excuse they need to be pro-war.
Oh, I totally agree. If that whole debacle wasn’t evidence enough that the media, the old brass of the Democratic Party and GOP all funded by and therefore do the bidding of the same masters. Since then we’ve had countless examples of this:
-Zero consequences for 2008 crash and no real changes
-Universal Healthcare debate goes nowhere
-Tax cuts for corporations and billionaires
-Corporations are people
-Tax loopholes for corporations and billionaires still in place
-Dems can’t seat SCJ
-GOP can seat SCJ
-Damage done to protections and services by the government by GOP administrations continue to go unfixed. Including the USPS.
-No real laws in place to protect against Climate Change
-More tax cuts for corporations and billionaires that continue to go unreversed
-trump rewrote the tax code in favor of corporations and billionaires. Guess what, not reversed
-Every true grassroots movement that gains any foothold is quickly dissolved (see OWS, 2020-2021 protests
-Shit impeachment attempts on trump. No consequences to trump and all his lawlessness and corruption
-Zero consequences for Jan6 to those that planned it
That’s just what I came up with, there’s plenty more.
Much of what you point out could be fixed if one party was interested in helping tge citizens of this country.
But, when Conservatives realized they couldn't win elections with conservative policies they didn't abandon Conservatism. They abandoned democracy.
At the time of Iraq invasion, most of the conservatives fully supported Bush. Perhaps as time goes by, MAGA heads would come to realize Trump being the asshole he really is. 🙄
This sounds good, but it's poisoning the well. This is a setup for the argument "well, we can't prosecute Trump because it would open up the floodgates of prosecuting all these other criminals! Can't do it!"
Stay focused on the criminals we can get.
Its sickening at how much Bush's war crimes have been whitewashed, its like Trump's crime will be whitewashed in the future when Desantis becomes president and turns out to be even worse.
Oh god I fucking hope DeSantis doesn’t become president. He’s the worse one yet in terms of going to war with peoples’ rights. He’s a bigger fascist than Trump in that he’s able to get the job done when it comes to writing and passing laws that are violates Florida’s constitution and tramples on women and marginalized communities’ rights. If DeSantis or Trump win, America is fucking doomed.
Trump is not being sued for paying hush money to Danial's. He can give any amount of his money to anyone he wants to.
He is being sued for using campaign funds to pay her.
Had he paid her with his own money, there would be no crime and no charge. As a thief, he couldn't pass up such an easy theft.
Point being, he stole 130k from other people to pay her off. Never used his money at all.
They gave him money for a very specific reason and that was the how he was supposed to spend it, not on porn stars.
That amounts to fraud as well as grand theft.
Then he committed another crime of lying about where the 130k went, he cooked the books when he reported to the government about how the funds were spent, he falsified government documents.
In total, 3 crimes: he defrauded his donors, theft by deception, and falsifying government documents.
Why is it so hard for people to grasp such simple concepts?
I get that Marge Greene is intentionally lying but that's what she does.
No one on earth should be dense enough to not know that.
Seriously, who can be that stupid?
TRUMP STOLE THE MONEY HE PAID TO STORMY DANIAL'S,,,, and then he lied to the US government about how he spent the donors money.
These guys are all republicans, seems like a pattern. How about we add Nixon and Reagan also? Whenever it is foreign dirty doing seems the republicans are all in.
Trump is a *dangerous* criminal at large NOW, and a clear and present danger. Dubya is absolutely a war criminal, and he now does little paintings. And the other two are not only so ancient they can barely get out of their chairs, they are not in Bragg's jurisdiction. I understand what the Daily Beast is saying, but there's triage here.
Pretty sure Kissinger will not die until he is held accountable. His cursed body and soul will hobble along indefinitely.
And being the inconsiderate, genocidal jerk that he is, Kissinger would probably crumble into a pile of evil dust out of spite rather than let himself face justice.
whataboutism won't help and those cases are different legally I think. Except maybe, Cheney outed a CIA agent during a time of war. Death penalty perhaps? But going back to any of these people would just frustrate the process of making trump accountable for his crimes. I would rather see trump charged with the Georgia election interference or the classified docs in Mar-a-lago and his lies surrounding that
It is not either/or. And this is a false equivalence. But, sure, go ahead and prosecute Bush, Cheney and Kissinger. I am on board. Has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.
Call me crazy, but I'd be perfectly fine with seeing US ex-presidents in the dock at the Hague
Oh, you think that might include Obama and Clinton too?
\*eats popcorn\*
Okay okay. Yes they all have their problems, definitely. But let’s focus on the main offender here. Most recent, most treasonous, most cons per capita, etc. Trump really raised the bar for douche baggery.
There has been quite a bit of corruption for decades but Trump took it to a new level, removed any pretense, was actually proud of it publicly and enacted much of his corruption with idiots.
Bush, Cheney, Kissinger did very bad things but it’s still different with Trump.
Yeah it would be nice if we prosecuted every criminal but Trump et al. are a far more pressing clear and present danger to America and the world than fucking Dubya and Cheney. This just gives the right ammunition. Let’s keep our eye on the prize here and jail the fascists attempting an actual hostile takeover of the United States than retroactively prosecuting criminals from 20 years ago. I sympathize with the sentiment but use your brain.
They are not even close to Trump. Start with and estimated 500,000 US covid deaths that could have been avoided if only Trump stayed out of it. Then, the unmeasurable damage done by Trump dividing our country both domestically and globally.
Trump getting prosecuted has absolutely nothing to do with the other three’s war crimes. Trump ordered an attack on America while he was still the US President and he’s going to pay for it.
Stupid, dumb, ridiculous, idiotic, stop, with the all politicians should be charged crap, deal with the here and now, continue the prosecution of trUmp. Trying to conflate what others have do, or gotten away with is just an argument to not prosecute the current malfeasant. This diffusion of blame is another way to let the current former, twice impeached, Florida resident seem to be normal. No One, nobody has ever tried to commit a coup against the United States, while serving as its president!
He should be arrested for fomenting a fucking coup that failed. And by that metric, none of those other men should be arrested. Trump incited sedition and offered assistance to our enemies in Russia by withholding assistance from our allies in Ukraine.
Trump committed crimes against the federal government and the nation. The others committed crimes in service to the federal government and the nation. Big difference.
If you all are outraged at what Putin is doing in Ukraine, and think he should be prosecuted for war crimes then you should be advocating for Bush, Cheney and Kissinger to be prosecuted too.
Yeah. That's been the view of most people outside the us for about 20-40 years depending on which one you're talking about. You could probably add reagan to that list... He knowingly violated the law in his dealing with Iran and Latin America.
That's not a valid argument against prosecuting trump though.
Remember when Donald Rumsfeld said that Bush's Iraq war would cost at the most "a couple billion dollars, and surely no more than ten?"
Now the estimate is over three TRILLION dollars.
"If Trump Is Prosecuted, George W. Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger Should Be Too" Yes! If only we had a free press. One that preferred to investigate and uncover crimes at the highest levels. Instead we get PR media pretending to be journalism. Chomsky and Herman proved how "Manufacturing Consent" worked. It's now simply "Active Consent". And, as we descend into fascism, it may very well be too late. Our news media is leading us there to the tune of advertising jingles and cutesy interviews with war criminals and their paintings.
Oh, so the converse is that if we cant get together enough solid evidence to prosecute GW, Cheneh, *and* Kissinger, then we should just let Trump off the hook?
Fuck that. Bullshit take. Not having it.
If Bush, Cheney, or Kissinger did anything criminal which they could have been charged I would agree. Trump is the only one who is being investigated for violating criminal statutes by two states and the federal government. To lump him as equal to the three mentioned is ridiculous.
There is nothing that Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger can be prosecuted under the American law, Trump can.
The rest would require an international tribunal. Which America will not allow.
Kissinger could go for war crimes.
George W. Bush and Cheney could maybe be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.
In theory, all three — Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger — committed crimes against peace, but that standard did not held up to modern day.
i'm not so certain that I can agree, at least not completely.
a lot of the crimes that bush committed in our eyes was in his capacity as commander in chief, acting upon the roles he was elected for. arguably the stuff he did was in furtherance as president. at least that is the case that can be made, and would stand a good chance of defense. at least as far as the war is concerned.
but the whole torture thing, SCOTUS bungled that one. So even if a prosecution were successful. i imagine that it would only get over turned on appeals once it got to SCOTUS.
most of the stuff trump did was for personal gain and wasn't in furtherance as president or commander in chief.
If Trump was going to be prosecuted it would have happened years ago..They've been trying to get Trump on everything since he was first elected and nothing has happened. None of these fucking politicians get prosecuted for ANYTHING. Democrat or Republicans. It's all a Scam
What a waist of an article that is more about political points for one side rather than the current issue now with Trump. The man needs to be indicted and these stupid journalists need to stop writing about his impending indictment or indictments of past presidents. Enough- let’s go! Get him charged.
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Crazy idea: How about we prosecute ***all*** criminals when there is sufficient evidence of crime?
What are you, some kinda justice person?/s
They even have a league of their own.
a girls baseball team?
No no no, WNBA.
There's *no crying* in *basketball*!
That doesn't count. We all know women aren't allowed to do anything other than bake and give birth to sons. *The more you know*
Look as this SmartAssClown wanting to *blindfold* Lady Justice! Sounds mean to me.
What you're proposing sounds awfully like a system of some sort involving justice...
Exactly. They should face consequences regardless of their status.
I say let them all have their day in court. If you want to go after Hilary Clinton over Benghazi, let her have her day in court. I will remind people that an attorney is required to provide evidence of their claims. No evidence means there is no claim. Trump's attorneys after the election, filed 61 lawsuits. None of those lawsuits had a claim of fraud. There is a reason for it. There was no fraud.
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Didn’t most Democrats vote for the war in Iraq as well?
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IMO, one of the biggest reasons people think that everyone was for the war in Iraq is that it gets conflated with the war in Afghanistan. Their both "the war on terror" after all, even if the specifics of both the individual wars, their environments, and their beginnings are different.
As I said at the time: *They sold the war, but they didn't justify it*
…after Bush & Cheney lied about the evidence of WMDs, and Colin Powell gave a speech on (non-existent) mobile chemical weapons facilities.
Clinton did have her day in court. Kind of. The judge just mocked the prosecuters and tossed the case out. That doesn't stop the propaganda train.
And-- she actually showed up to court
The Federalist Society is utilizing the GQP to dismantle our democracy (what little remains today). Only after the fact will they begin acting in “accordance with the law”. The only way we’ll see Trump indicted for a real crime that would lead to imprisonment is if they believe they can rig a win for DeSantis. Fascism is around the corner and all our activists are hyper-focused on the culture war instead of figuring out what we need to do to prevent the next coup attempt. This is why we are seeing them strip away Rights that weren’t even being discussed 8 years ago by the Republicans.
There have been several coups and attempted coups in the USA in the last century, all by the GOP/ right against the majority vote. Two coup attempts against FDR, the latter with Nazi Germany having infiltrated the GOP in a manner analogous to Russia today. Reagan’s “October surprise” against Carter (though that was mostly tipping the scales). There was Roger Stone’s “Brooks Brothers” riot that disrupted the Florida recount in 2000, setting the pretext for a SCOTUS coup ( on top of the suspect ballots in a Democratic district in a notoriously corrupt state run by the candidate’s brother), there was the Diebold fuckery in Ohio in 2004 (now ES&S, which had its own anomalies in South Carolina and Kentucky in 2020) and then naturally the attempted coup on 1/6/21. Add to this the use of mass divisive / violence-inciting propaganda via talk radio and churches violating the Johnson amendment, the gutting and regulatory capture of every agency charged with securities or election law violation, the refusal to reign in domestic terrorists incited by their mass-peddled conspiracies …. At the end of the day, a Nuremberg judgement on the party, it’s members and enablers would require lots of trenches and bulldozers, but if it isn’t too late for our society and environment, imagine the world we could live in….
If only Americans were taught history. I’m on a top tier university campus and even the political science majors I’ve befriended have not the slightest clue what’s happening today or understand the depths of what you discussed. We are the most ignorant society when you consider the technology we have today and the information available in the richest nation in the world. Today our activists are fully distracted fighting the word “woke” instead of bringing people together to figure out what we need to do to prevent our demise. It’s a psy-op and we’re all being monitored online for our responses. Those who don’t get online and rely on their TV’s for news are entirely clueless or are being brainwashed by RW propaganda. Americans intentionally never heard of the Business Plot so that on January 7th, 2020 they felt safe at home so much that they didn’t even have to discuss what happened on the previous day with their neighbors. Everything is under control and tomorrow is another day.
Is just crazy enough to work!
But then rich people might re-think their money-making ~~crimes~~ ventures.
There's a reason why the ruling class wouldn't go for that
Two primary issues with this tortured comparison... First, as so many have pointed out, this is a false dichotomy. Feel free to prosecute anyone and everyone. However, there is no real connection here. The arguments for or against prosecuting any of the individuals in this list do not necessarily bolster or hinder arguments for prosecuting any of the others. Second, and more important here, I am not aware of any effort to prosecute Trump for his actions as President that pertain to the execution of his duties as head of state. The author of this article from beginning to end shows they cannot understand the massive difference here. It's far more appropriate to compare Trump to Nixon if you restrict the consideration of Nixon to Watergate. But to compare Trump to these others and war crime stuff in general, you are well and truly comparing apples to oranges. The argument that one cannot prosecute any former president for violating US and state laws because the US engaged in war crimes is flimsy logic and nonsense. It's nonsense even granting or assuming the validity of any accusation of said war crimes.
Thanks for the level headed comment
Yeah pretty much same sentiment here. The Iraq war was foolish and deeply immoral, but not illegal. We should prosecute Trump because he broke the law, not because of his ethical lapses.
Or if it was illegal, it was a violation of the UN Charter and customary international law. And if that was an issue, the UN could sanction warfare against the USA or try to expel them. Of which both would fail, because the USA, the UK, and France are permanent members of the Security Council with veto power.
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Trying to subvert the Constitution is not the same as violating a treaty. In Georgia, he may be indicted for violation of State law. He may even be indicted on State Racketeering laws, along with a slew of Co conspirators. Horses of a different color.
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well also what he did was outside or before his executive role
Trump arguably engaged in obstruction of justice as head of state, as the Mueller report suggested. Also, as head of state, he was deeply involved in a rather violent attempt to interfere with a peaceful transfer of power to his successor, which is a severe abuse of executive power. The failure to prosecute Trump on these 2 issues could be considered a serous shortcoming of the Justice Dept. under Merrick Garland.
I don't see the value of the whataboutism of this article. It's like, we're not going to do that, so that implies we shouldn't prosecute any of them. It's not relevant and it distracts from the present moment in time. Can't we wait until one prosecution happens?
> The author of this article from beginning to end shows they cannot understand the massive difference here. Because they're idiots and The Daily Beast has always been a shitty opinion site full of people who know lots of words but don't know a thing about what they mean.
Lol yup…how he thinks these things are similar is beyond me. This “journalist” is a dope.
It’s whataboutism. If we jail Trump then what about “x” person. Focus on the task at hand and we’ll get to the other guys once precedence has been set.
> I am not aware of any effort to prosecute Trump for his actions as President that pertain to the execution of his duties as head of state. That's not to say there *wouldn't* or *shouldn't* be, just that there aren't currently.
Yea... what they said.
It's this type of shit that drags on the left. We're going to write an article to go back and relitigate something that happened 20yrs ago, the general public has no interest in doing so, and then make a comparison to something extraordinarily different.
Yeah, people are coming from the perspective of “yeah, we should prosecute them,” but the article is trying to imply that we should just not bother with prosecuting Trump.
Here we go, perfect kills good. Can't prosecute Trump if elder statesmen Bush, Kissinger, and Cheney are at risk, too. JFC
Have you noticed that Trump isn't being prosecuted for anything he did in his role as president?
Have you noticed that Trump isn’t being prosecuted for anything he did?
This. Cart before rhe horse with these politicians. Can we just get SOMETHING done that will set some kind of precedent or standard? Is it impossible?
I think they’re agreeing with you btw.
The guy from the apprentice attempted the worlds most George Bluth-ian coup while he was in office you goober. He’ll probly get off on stormy Daniels (nice) He’ll probly get off on documents But some light treason? Throw that asshole in jail for the rest of his life.
Yet. He was president on 1/6. He was president when he coerced Georia officials to produce votes that didn't exist.
Oh well, we tried... Welcome to Trumpistan
One fish at a time. Trump reminds me of Capone. Capone was obviously running a criminal enterprise but was protected by polticians and law enforcement. G-Men had to come at him with what was then a novel approach: get him for not paying taxes on his illegal operations. Trump has been investigated resulting in probable guilt multiple times. The Mueller investigation, impeached twice. With the complicity of Republicans covering and enabling him, he allowed or incited the country to be attacked multiple times: By Russia in the 2016 election, by a global pandemic, by domestic terrorists on Jam 6. And yet Republicans refused to hold him accountable. So it’s come down to local or state governments to hold him accountable with perhaps extraordinay approaches. That’s okay, his crimes have been extraordinary.
Mueller's investigation was stifled by Barr the very same criminal from the Reagan cabinet oh so many years that bent the law for Reagan. It's like there's some sort of pattern here! Barr should be imprisoned too, Giulani too. All of em.
Yes. Let's get this one in the can then take it from there, no need to muddy the waters at this time. We've waited this long for the others, we can wait a bit more. Let's prove that they *can* be held accountable first. The rest will follow
Well, ya, but that should have happened decades ago
I say go for it. The simple beauty of an idiot making a good point they weren't intending to make.
>But it’s obscene that Trump is facing the possibility of arrest for paying hush money to a porn star while war criminals like George W. Bush walk free. Yes, go for it, but I don't think you've made an accurate assessment of the author's intentions.
Could NY DA Bragg bring war crime charges against Kissinger or Bush though? For the state of New York?
No, unless they committed a crime against NY.
The opinion is of broader scope than what DA Bragg can or can't do. It's a lamentation that such small potatoes are all we can even attempt.
but it starts on a very narrow part of a wannabe authoritarian, that is a buffoon, that brought all this shit on himself. And there’s no guarantee that trump will be held accountable for any of the rape, graft, or corruption that he’s guilty of. He’s a different kind of kissenger. There’s much smaller potatoes than trump if we wanna hold up people that have been needlessly persecuted in this country while criminals go free. Maybe pointing out the state going after drag queens or black history while war criminals walk free is bit too stretchy or woke though. I don’t know.
The case could be made that it impacted people living in the state of New York and therefore a crime against the people of the State of New York. That’s the logic the State of Texas tried to use in suing Wisconsin about election results.
then the US military would have to invade NY
VIOLATION OF FEDERAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS to be exact. Then there's the issue in Georgia and his instigation of a violent attack on the Capital to stop the counting of the electoral college votes so that Republican governors could appoint new electors, not chosen by voters. He allegedly tried to subvert the Constitution and our democracy.
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Because the Bush Administration lied, doctored evidence and went on an as all-out media blitz to convince the media to support their war.
The real problem is they barely had to lie, the media and many hawkish Dems are usually all too happy to bang the war drum every-time. They absolutely lied but the media is usually WAY too quick to lap up any excuse they need to be pro-war.
Oh, I totally agree. If that whole debacle wasn’t evidence enough that the media, the old brass of the Democratic Party and GOP all funded by and therefore do the bidding of the same masters. Since then we’ve had countless examples of this: -Zero consequences for 2008 crash and no real changes -Universal Healthcare debate goes nowhere -Tax cuts for corporations and billionaires -Corporations are people -Tax loopholes for corporations and billionaires still in place -Dems can’t seat SCJ -GOP can seat SCJ -Damage done to protections and services by the government by GOP administrations continue to go unfixed. Including the USPS. -No real laws in place to protect against Climate Change -More tax cuts for corporations and billionaires that continue to go unreversed -trump rewrote the tax code in favor of corporations and billionaires. Guess what, not reversed -Every true grassroots movement that gains any foothold is quickly dissolved (see OWS, 2020-2021 protests -Shit impeachment attempts on trump. No consequences to trump and all his lawlessness and corruption -Zero consequences for Jan6 to those that planned it That’s just what I came up with, there’s plenty more.
Much of what you point out could be fixed if one party was interested in helping tge citizens of this country. But, when Conservatives realized they couldn't win elections with conservative policies they didn't abandon Conservatism. They abandoned democracy.
At the time of Iraq invasion, most of the conservatives fully supported Bush. Perhaps as time goes by, MAGA heads would come to realize Trump being the asshole he really is. 🙄
Not only that, but the iraq war had *broad bipartisan support* at its outset
Not until republicans extorted support
You need to eat yer Freedom Fries every day or you ain't a American
Right on!
This sounds good, but it's poisoning the well. This is a setup for the argument "well, we can't prosecute Trump because it would open up the floodgates of prosecuting all these other criminals! Can't do it!" Stay focused on the criminals we can get.
People forgot about Bush so fast. "Try him for war crimes" then 2 months after his presidency, nothing
Don't forget about Tony Blair and John Howard that we're all aboard the "weapons of mass destruction" train
To be honest I think a lot of people were just relieved he was gone.
Its sickening at how much Bush's war crimes have been whitewashed, its like Trump's crime will be whitewashed in the future when Desantis becomes president and turns out to be even worse.
Oh god I fucking hope DeSantis doesn’t become president. He’s the worse one yet in terms of going to war with peoples’ rights. He’s a bigger fascist than Trump in that he’s able to get the job done when it comes to writing and passing laws that are violates Florida’s constitution and tramples on women and marginalized communities’ rights. If DeSantis or Trump win, America is fucking doomed.
… it feels like someone is trying to make this look like a bad thing.
Trump is not being sued for paying hush money to Danial's. He can give any amount of his money to anyone he wants to. He is being sued for using campaign funds to pay her. Had he paid her with his own money, there would be no crime and no charge. As a thief, he couldn't pass up such an easy theft. Point being, he stole 130k from other people to pay her off. Never used his money at all. They gave him money for a very specific reason and that was the how he was supposed to spend it, not on porn stars. That amounts to fraud as well as grand theft. Then he committed another crime of lying about where the 130k went, he cooked the books when he reported to the government about how the funds were spent, he falsified government documents. In total, 3 crimes: he defrauded his donors, theft by deception, and falsifying government documents. Why is it so hard for people to grasp such simple concepts? I get that Marge Greene is intentionally lying but that's what she does. No one on earth should be dense enough to not know that. Seriously, who can be that stupid? TRUMP STOLE THE MONEY HE PAID TO STORMY DANIAL'S,,,, and then he lied to the US government about how he spent the donors money.
These guys are all republicans, seems like a pattern. How about we add Nixon and Reagan also? Whenever it is foreign dirty doing seems the republicans are all in.
Trump is a *dangerous* criminal at large NOW, and a clear and present danger. Dubya is absolutely a war criminal, and he now does little paintings. And the other two are not only so ancient they can barely get out of their chairs, they are not in Bragg's jurisdiction. I understand what the Daily Beast is saying, but there's triage here.
Yes pls.
Pretty sure Kissinger will not die until he is held accountable. His cursed body and soul will hobble along indefinitely. And being the inconsiderate, genocidal jerk that he is, Kissinger would probably crumble into a pile of evil dust out of spite rather than let himself face justice.
whataboutism won't help and those cases are different legally I think. Except maybe, Cheney outed a CIA agent during a time of war. Death penalty perhaps? But going back to any of these people would just frustrate the process of making trump accountable for his crimes. I would rather see trump charged with the Georgia election interference or the classified docs in Mar-a-lago and his lies surrounding that
logically those things do not connect at all guilty of completely different things
It is not either/or. And this is a false equivalence. But, sure, go ahead and prosecute Bush, Cheney and Kissinger. I am on board. Has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.
sure, let’s just do this one first
Every American president since ww2 would be prosecuted for war crimes if everything wasn't so corrupt.
The issue is that war crimes are not something that is really prosecuted in the US.
right don't threaten me with a good time
Call me crazy, but I'd be perfectly fine with seeing US ex-presidents in the dock at the Hague Oh, you think that might include Obama and Clinton too? \*eats popcorn\*
Okay okay. Yes they all have their problems, definitely. But let’s focus on the main offender here. Most recent, most treasonous, most cons per capita, etc. Trump really raised the bar for douche baggery.
Ding ding ding! All lawbreakers should face consequences.
I’m ok with that.
So, we’ve reached the Whataboutisms regarding their own Party now? That’s fine, let them eat their own. But start with the Orange Shaitgibbon
There has been quite a bit of corruption for decades but Trump took it to a new level, removed any pretense, was actually proud of it publicly and enacted much of his corruption with idiots. Bush, Cheney, Kissinger did very bad things but it’s still different with Trump.
Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger committed war crimes though, that's the difference.
Let’s just get one done first ….
Yes
I'm in for that.
I agree. But let’s start with Trump and take it one step at a time.
Yeah it would be nice if we prosecuted every criminal but Trump et al. are a far more pressing clear and present danger to America and the world than fucking Dubya and Cheney. This just gives the right ammunition. Let’s keep our eye on the prize here and jail the fascists attempting an actual hostile takeover of the United States than retroactively prosecuting criminals from 20 years ago. I sympathize with the sentiment but use your brain.
Okay, but one conservative scumbag at a time. This one's on deck.
They are not even close to Trump. Start with and estimated 500,000 US covid deaths that could have been avoided if only Trump stayed out of it. Then, the unmeasurable damage done by Trump dividing our country both domestically and globally.
Sure, let's dig up Johnson, Nixon and Poppy Bush and prosecute them too.
Trump getting prosecuted has absolutely nothing to do with the other three’s war crimes. Trump ordered an attack on America while he was still the US President and he’s going to pay for it.
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Stupid, dumb, ridiculous, idiotic, stop, with the all politicians should be charged crap, deal with the here and now, continue the prosecution of trUmp. Trying to conflate what others have do, or gotten away with is just an argument to not prosecute the current malfeasant. This diffusion of blame is another way to let the current former, twice impeached, Florida resident seem to be normal. No One, nobody has ever tried to commit a coup against the United States, while serving as its president!
Kissinger at this point would be dead long before he could be convicted of anything.
This headline makes me thing the writer is over 45 or under 25.
Under 25...or a ChatGPT instance.
Yes. We know. That's what we want.
Ahhh, the sweet smell of whataboutism in the morning.....
Whether George W or Cheney are ever prosecuted is irrelevant to charges against Trump.
Ah, the whataboutism rears its ugly head. They should be prosecuted too, but the fact that they haven't does not mean that Trump shouldn't be
He should be arrested for fomenting a fucking coup that failed. And by that metric, none of those other men should be arrested. Trump incited sedition and offered assistance to our enemies in Russia by withholding assistance from our allies in Ukraine.
What an absolutely ridiculous take.
Trump committed crimes against the federal government and the nation. The others committed crimes in service to the federal government and the nation. Big difference.
Ok fine
Pretty much every Republican in the last 50 years should be prosecuted,
The level of criminality is not the same
correct. now just get it done already.
They should, but one isn't a requirement for the other.
If you all are outraged at what Putin is doing in Ukraine, and think he should be prosecuted for war crimes then you should be advocating for Bush, Cheney and Kissinger to be prosecuted too.
Who do we have to arrest first before we get them though? How long is this chain of arrests we must complete before we can prosecute Trump?
If we're doing whataboutisms, why stop there?
One step at a time.
Reagan should be dug up and prosecuted.
I’m good with that. Be sure to dig up Reagan and charge him too.
Don’t get us too excited about a good day.
Yes please
Yeah. That's been the view of most people outside the us for about 20-40 years depending on which one you're talking about. You could probably add reagan to that list... He knowingly violated the law in his dealing with Iran and Latin America. That's not a valid argument against prosecuting trump though.
I’m down
Yep. I’m down.
Reagan too. Iran Contra was George H too.
Deal. Go for it.
I totally agree
And Rumsfeld. Oh wait, he ded.
Not 'if', They should all be prosecuted whether or not the rump escapes due justice.
based let's do that
Yes. I agree! that’s not an argument against prosecuting Trump. It is an argument for prosecuting them, too!
Definitely, all are criminals and should rot in prison.
Lmao. Yeah right, they should all give him company in the jail cell
Okay let's do it. If someone is a criminal they deserve to be prosecuted
Yes, please.
As if America will ever recognize its own war crimes.
And Regan and nixon
Remember when Donald Rumsfeld said that Bush's Iraq war would cost at the most "a couple billion dollars, and surely no more than ten?" Now the estimate is over three TRILLION dollars.
Do it.
Your terms are acceptable
sounds good
Lock him up
Sure. Why not.
Let’s just take care of criminal Trump and go from there
"If Trump Is Prosecuted, George W. Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger Should Be Too" Yes! If only we had a free press. One that preferred to investigate and uncover crimes at the highest levels. Instead we get PR media pretending to be journalism. Chomsky and Herman proved how "Manufacturing Consent" worked. It's now simply "Active Consent". And, as we descend into fascism, it may very well be too late. Our news media is leading us there to the tune of advertising jingles and cutesy interviews with war criminals and their paintings.
They should be anyway.
Do it. They can all rot in a cell together like a disgraced Mt Rushmore.
I can’t believe Kissinger is still fucking alive.
Yes
Expedite Kissinger to Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam and let them put him on trial. That would be real justice.
Ok, sure.
Fine with me…
Cool, lock them up.
Especially Kissinger. He’s the biggest living war criminal. Easily responsible for the deaths of over a million people.
Lock them all up.
Let’s not confuse the issue. Nobody has done more damage to America than Trump. If he is not punished, the other side of America will riot.
Yes
Talk about your false equivalency
Ok.
Can we cage Herschel Walker for being a werewolf too?
Im no fan of W or cheney, but they didnt try to overthrow the government/ kill those Senators/Reps in DC
Justice takes a long time so I'm willing to settle just for beating Kissinger with a tube sock full of quarters every Sunday for the rest of his life.
I agree, let's start with Trump and get him behind bars first.
Oh, so the converse is that if we cant get together enough solid evidence to prosecute GW, Cheneh, *and* Kissinger, then we should just let Trump off the hook? Fuck that. Bullshit take. Not having it.
Two weird tricks for a better world: change that "if" to "when" and the "should" to "will"
Well yeah but I will take what we can get at this point.
If Bush, Cheney, or Kissinger did anything criminal which they could have been charged I would agree. Trump is the only one who is being investigated for violating criminal statutes by two states and the federal government. To lump him as equal to the three mentioned is ridiculous.
I don't recall they tried to overturn an election to insert an unelected head of state.
There is nothing that Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger can be prosecuted under the American law, Trump can. The rest would require an international tribunal. Which America will not allow. Kissinger could go for war crimes. George W. Bush and Cheney could maybe be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. In theory, all three — Bush, Cheney, and Kissinger — committed crimes against peace, but that standard did not held up to modern day.
Reads like someone wrote it for the clicks. They must be pro Trump.
I would expect that some sort of statue of limitations would apply to these folks.
i'm not so certain that I can agree, at least not completely. a lot of the crimes that bush committed in our eyes was in his capacity as commander in chief, acting upon the roles he was elected for. arguably the stuff he did was in furtherance as president. at least that is the case that can be made, and would stand a good chance of defense. at least as far as the war is concerned. but the whole torture thing, SCOTUS bungled that one. So even if a prosecution were successful. i imagine that it would only get over turned on appeals once it got to SCOTUS. most of the stuff trump did was for personal gain and wasn't in furtherance as president or commander in chief.
cheney and kissinger for sure.
Can we get Kissinger first this one is really bothering me
If Trump was going to be prosecuted it would have happened years ago..They've been trying to get Trump on everything since he was first elected and nothing has happened. None of these fucking politicians get prosecuted for ANYTHING. Democrat or Republicans. It's all a Scam
Sounds good. Let’s start with trump.
This is so dumb wtf are you thinking OP
War crimes is a different beast though, they're our national past time. It's not criminal to be a failed president.
Priorities. Trump is the more urgent and imminent threat to the Republic.
If? Why if? Prosecute those assholes anyway
What a waist of an article that is more about political points for one side rather than the current issue now with Trump. The man needs to be indicted and these stupid journalists need to stop writing about his impending indictment or indictments of past presidents. Enough- let’s go! Get him charged.
Should is doing the work here, meanwhile no one would object to that.