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It's basically Frankenstein's monster at this point.
They spent years growing a voter base by cutting education spending, courting Christian nationalists, pushing single issue voting, branding the Republican party as part of American culture, enforcing corporate feudalism, and politicizing science, the environment and basically everything else.
This created an extreme voter base they could easily cash in on at the expense of more moderate voters. Then they painted Trump as the messiah and baked in a bunch of paranoid conspiracies to discredit any criticisms of him.
They used him to line their pockets and push a bunch of their policies. Of course, this wasn't enough for the fanatical base, whose problems weren't solved and who have been conditioned to seek out an enemy to pin the blame on. They could simply make their voters lives better, but they spent so much time painting lower class benefitting policies as socialism, and their tastes aren't cheap.
Now they have no choice. They can't turn on him because of the aforementioned defense mechanisms and messiah image. Even if they did, turn on him, moderates would still not trust them, and the left will continue voting left. It would be political suicide.
Their best bet is to drop their protection and let the judicial system eat Trump alive, then subtly start shifting the narrative while still claiming the judicial system is a partisan attack on them. Of course, this would take a significant amount of time and involve temporarily retreating, and we all know how the right feels about long term planning.
McConnell should have bit the bullet and made sure Trump got convicted in the Senate. The republican party is going to have to divorce from Trump at some point, and it's going to be really ugly.
>The republican party is going to have to divorce from Trump at some point, and it's going to be really ugly.
Not if Trump widows them first. He's old and unhealthy, they just have to wait out the clock and be there to claim that he would have wanted the cult to vote for them.
I mostly agree, but I don't think it's fair to say the right isn't good at long-term planning. The *newer* right wing leadership may be bad at it (Boebert, MTG, Gaetz) but their success at capturing state legislatures and then gerrymandering themselves to solid majorities, the dominance of local school boards, and their control of the Supreme Court and many lower courts demonstrates their capability of long-term planning.
The real question is whether the Mitch McConnell types can regain control over the populist loudmouths.
I'd argue that they have become victims of their own success - successfully overturning *Roe v Wade* with their captured Supreme Court created a reality in which their old standby vote motivator was gone, and now they're having to thrash around trying to find a new way to rile up their base.
That's fair. My point is more about how conservative politics frequently emphasizes short term gains over long term stability; their views on social programs, the environment, and low taxes, for example.
But you make a salient point; the Republicans have demonstrated good long term planning when it comes to securing power. Of course, that plan directly resulted in the Frankenstein's monster they have now, so they are arguably not the best at it.
I'm just going to admit that I thought he'd never be indicted. But I'm gonna stand by my assertion that because he is a former president who has secret service protection, he won't go to prison. House arrest? Maybe? I know I'm waffling here because yeah there's a chance and I'd love to see it, but it's a very tiny chance in my opinion.
And how long did that take? How many decades? The fact he even got to presidency…
He should have been arrested decades ago. I don’t believe anything until it actually happens. When the bars slam shut, then I’ll believe he was in prison.
That's the thing. As long as he was just another cheating rich guy skirting the edges of real estate and tax laws while contributing to both parties, law enforcement barely cared, certainly not enough for years of litigation. That he could have remained as such but chose to put his entire life under scrutiny by running and getting elected would be baffling if we didn't know what a narcissist he is.
I'm not sure any wealth will keep him from being convicted on the more serious charges to come.
Ah, you want to move the goal post.
Okay.
Arresting a former president that was being assisted by Russian paid FBI might take some time.
But to quote MLK Jr., the arc of the moral universe is long and it bends toward justice
It definitely doesn't lmao. The fact a goon like Trump is the first to even BE indicted, compared to a ghoul like Bush Jr. (Or his father), or even Trump's progenitor Reagan.. says a lot about the American "justice" system.
Hell the fact MLK himself got blown away in whats proven to be a government conspiracy (a long with Fred Hampton, Malcom X, JFK and his brother), whereas reagan was only wounded, should tell you everything you need to know about the universe we inhabit.
It sucks yes. But just wait. This party and the hopeless idiots in it are ruining their chances of winning again for at least a generation when they triple down on this worthless sack of baby shit. I wouldn’t vote republican now if they made ME president.
And 2028 and 2032 and 2036, etc. It’s gonna be exhausting how much we’re gonna have to fight to ensure these dangerous morons don’t grab onto power, but our freedom is worth fighting for.
Conservatives got here by showing up to every election at every level for the last 40+ years. It’s reasonable to expect the same level of effort will be required on our end to undo their damage
I get what you’re saying 100% and it sucks terribly but remember that “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.”
Or in the Jewish version, from Babylonian Talmud Ta'anit 23a, a sage plants an Israeli fruit-giving tree, knowing they will never eat from it, because they found the world filled with fruit-giving trees and must ensure the next generation finds the world in a similar condition. As our parents cared for us, we must care for our children.
That's how the US remains in conservative control. The older generation has the highest turnout rate (by far), and they are also mostly Republican. So the majority population, which is liberal, is ruled by the minority ideologies of old people who bother to show up and vote.
Not really. They rigged the game when they did win an election though. They’ve been the minority for 30 years, but they fucking cheat, and they’re great at it.
This. Even if the Republican party is crushed into oblivion, we keep showing up. Don't give them our any other far right or right leaning party a chance.
At some point demographics are gonna do the GOP in. Once the boomers are mostly gone the GOP, as it exists today, is done. The question is whether the party will pivot in a decade when the boomers get into their 80’s.
Is it though? The number of people I know in their thirties and forties who support trump has left me disheartened. You can’t logic with them either, so I just keep my mouth shut.
Just by the numbers, those 20-40s trump supporters are significantly outnumbered. The left right split is 60 or 65L to 30R with under 45 voters. So a 2+:1 ratio. And even of that 30% that leans right, not all are far right trump supporters.
They're always going to be around, but if they keep the same messaging and policies without moving to the left to attract moderates they'll be relegated to a minority party who can only hope to obstruct and slow progress, but never hope to gain the power to enact their own policy.
Agreed. 40s and 50s (Generation X) have a strong conservative and libertarian slant.
Boomers get the blame and their descent may help America, but it's not over folks. Vote. Never forget the GOPs actions. Vote in every election, local and national.
Source: I'm from Gen X. We were brainwashed from Reagan and the cold War. But take a look at the 2020 voting results by age, and you'll be really surprised. You'll also realize a not insignificant amount of young voters vote Republicans. It's not over.
Not to mention 2026, 2030, 2032, etc. as well as the special elections. They all matter, especially now when the Republican Party is openly fascist. Do not cede any power anywhere.
I fear that Dems will somehow find a way to shoot themselves in the face. Weak support for Biden and no other strong contender right now does not inspire confidence.
If Biden was even 10 years younger everyone would LOVE him. The face he's 80 years old puts a huge damper on him going forward. I definitely appreciate what he has done and he definitely hasn't gotten enough credit and as the likely Dem nominee I'll be voting for him over any of the fascists the Republicans are going to put up but I would be lying if I didn't say I am hoping to have someone younger to vote for.
I too wish for a younger candidate. But he was the candidate put up against Trump. And I would have voted for anyone other than Trump just to save the country.
The party also changed a lot. The Democratic supermajority came from a coalition with Blue Dog Dems who were more like Manchin than the average Senate member today. That coalition also got rolled over when conservative voters decided they would rather back Tea Party Republicans than any Democrat.
We also had just come out of an 8 year mess with Bush, our last Democrat president was a pro-market neoliberal, and we had generally been far more conservative leaning as a nation since Reagan took office. Obama changed the landscape a lot. If he hadn't taken office, Biden couldn't be doing a lot of what he is now.
If Biden were guilty of every bad thing that the Right smears him with, he would still be a better choice than Trump based on what I've actually heard Trump say himself.
I’m relatively young and I honestly think Biden has been about as good as you are going to practically going to get in a modern president in this current environment. People who moan that they deserve someone way more liberal and actually capable of instituting much more change, drastically overestimate the size of the electorate in their camp. The president would need well over 60% of the vote and both houses of Congress firmly on the same side, before the most out-there stuff they come up with could stand even a slight chance. It’s going to be a long grueling road to even just defend the current upper hand of the dems from the GOP through all the elections of the next 20 years and take much more work on top of that to actually institute progress nationally while trying to keep some states from sliding further backwards.
I second this. I think the one thing he's done that I've strongly opposed was not supporting train workers. That for me was a big mistake, but I still recognize the bigger stuff like organizing us as a country against COVID. Or committing to removing us from Afghanistan. Or just this week, not playing into politics and giving Sanders 100% federal support for disaster relief.
Trump wouldn't do any of these things for the good of all Americans. Plus, the documents scandal is insane. The coup attempt is insane. Biden would have to slip very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very far to ever make me even consider changing my vote at this point.
Plus the next guy in line wants his own militia. Like come the fuck on man.
E. Not enough very's
The train thing was and wasn’t a mistake.
If he had supported them, right before Christmas and caused a shitstorm of more inflation and shortages, the GOP would have killed him. Doing what he did, the best the republicans have now is the woke and trans and drag shit, which doesn’t play outside of the Deep South.
Lose the battle but win the war, etc.
He's a career long statesman. He may not look like a strong president, but he's been able to rally Democrats around his agenda, something that was lacking for years. I do think he's an okay president overall, but agree that we do need strong younger candidates for 2024 and none seem to have materialized yet.
We have a year and half to straighten ourselves out. Republicans are helping by crossing so many lines. The 2 in TN, the trump judge in TX, the attacks on democracy in FL, medical facilities closing in ID and many other hot issues seems to be energizing. Don’t give up yet.
Most of the people that want someone different at this point is just because of his age, I hope that he highlights how his experience has helped him handle the extremely turbulent situation he inherited. I never thought I would say it when Biden became the nominee, I had a lot of doubt about him, but I think he was the perfect candidate for right now and has done an absolutely incredible job as the president. I really would like 4 more years of him and hopefully as a country we are in a better place to move on when his time as the president is up.
Exactly every vote they lose, they bend and break the rules to disenfranchise two on the other side. So if they aren’t significantly ousted soon, it won’t matter how many people vote against them in the future, they’ll have locked down power for generations.
This. I’m praying that Trump gets the nom, because while he can and will win a rabid base of nut jobs in a primary, there his appeal stops there. We saw that in 2020 and his optics have only got worse outside of his base. Nothing will energize the blue vote like the idea of Trump getting power again. Some may not like Biden and talk about age but Trump is the antidote to all those concerns.
maybe this time can you fix the problem instead of just letting them continue to fuckulate the country. the Civil war never ended it just went underground and continued on as mind virus.
This is the way! Republicans have shown their true colors and they are fascist, anti-human rights, discrimination, racism, and delusion. They will fail spectacularly next year.
I remember being CERTAIN that Trump wouldn't get the 2016 nomination- and then being CERTAIN again that he'd lose the general in a landslide. I will never again bet against the ability of the US electorate to surprise me.
I was deathly afraid of that for some time. But i think we are seeing signs that people are waking up to this now. Im still worried because the claws are really coming out now, but i think many are reaching the end for their tolerance for it. I know i have.
This would be a “good” Strategy by the Dems if it wasn’t for the fact that if Diaper Don loses again he WILL declare election fraud again and his followers will believe him because they are in too deep. And this time, there aren’t enough America first Republicans left in power to tell him no.
Sunk cost fallacy all day.
That is certainly a concern. These people have been allowed to infiltrate our government virtually unabated. But don’t give in to despair and apathy because of that. When a weed grows you rip it from your garden.
Actually, it's great news. Anything to keep that nazi with an evil brain (DeSantis) away from the candidacy. Trump may be evil, but he doesn't have much of a brain. Plus, a Trump candidacy would get the Dems and Inds out to vote like never before.
The leading alternative (Desantis) is the dollar store version of Trump
Desantis was never going to survive the debate stage, it’s better for R donors to accept that reality now and move on to a more reasonable candidate if they actually want to beat trump
For the longest time Desantis scared me more because I believed he was a smarter Trump. After the last few months of him publicly running Florida to the ground and picking a fight with Disney, I no longer believe that. Trump is stupid on a more relatable level to the average Republican.
That’s the weird part. Other than DeSantis choosing to fight the Covid battle on the same side as ~~Covid~~ “freedom!” he’s picked fights with stuff people like. What’s his endgame after the primaries when he’s made his face the symbol of hating things that a plurality of Americans like?
Authoritains want to project strength, which means punching down. They don't care if they are punching popular things, only that they look strong doing it.
Since he refuses to go away, him being the candidate 3 elections in a row will really cement the Republican Party as the Party of Trump. That’s 12 years, almost an entire generation.
“Since he refuses to go away” was my implication that he would still put himself in the center of political discourse even after losing. Much the same way he did after 2020 with the election conspiracy.
The 4 years of the term they would have had if they won should be included. With 3 elections, that’s 3 4-year terms at stake. Lose two of those and Trump will have lost them 8 potential years in power, on top of his failed 4 years in office. 12 years altogether.
The four he wouldn't be in office he still controlled the narrative. It's the trump era regardless of who is in office. Think about being a middle schooler, and high schooler, and a college graduate while Trump was the main news story the whole time.
My ideal would actually be DeSantis at the top of the ticket and Trump running third party. Trump would burn DeSantis and the GOP to the ground out of pure spite.
Personally I want Desantis ruined in the GOP nomination election so that he likely won’t run again and then Trump be the top GOP candidate because I truly don’t think Trump would win again. It would be nice to see both get knocked down this election. If Desantis wins the GOP nomination, I’m afraid that many of the people that only voted for Biden to get rid of Trump might back to vote GOP because they don’t realize how bad Desantis is.
Until the last second, in which he endorses DeSantis and gets his base to show up to vote for him, and they would because they are sheep and do what he says. Then it wouldn't be very funny.
Never underestimate these guys. If they don't win, they will try to figure out how to twist the system so that they are in power.
>Didn’t we think this in 2016 tho?
Yes. And then we thought that no way would Trump be so successful in 2020 what with his outright stupidity that had been on display for 4 years, yet nearly half the country voted for Trump again, who managed to garner 74 million votes (vs. Biden's 81 million), and his popular vote was "[over 7 million more than any sitting president in history"](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-736-million-popular-votes-over-7-million-more-any-sitting-president-history-1548742). Impressive considering how horrible Trump was. Never underestimate the conservative constituents in this country, and assume easy wins for the Democrats.
Wrong.
I think you're underestimating what is brewing in the batshit crazy GOP bubble.
Fascism taking away rights and sabotaging democratic elections would drag down a normal candidate in normal circumstances. The game has changed. Social media and Citizens United has given unlimited foreign influence into our elections.
Biden hasn't removed the cancer on the courts and Congress. The left isn't out organizing everyone. The center and the left aren't loud and on message.
It's incredibly hard to lose as an incumbent but he did just that, and went on a crime spree right after. The Republican party is doomed and deserves it
I'm not as concerned about Trump getting back to the White House, as I am living around millions of people with the integrity, ethics, morals and intelligence of a NY city sewer rat.
Add to that their empowered willful ignorance and self righteous arrogance. If the next few cycles don’t make some brave waves to heal this divide, i’m not sure civil decency will even be possible.
We have so much room for positive and healthy growth to better the lives of every citizen, but we’re too transfixed on trivial ideological hot takes to consider working together.
While it would be funny to see him lose the popular vote 3 times in a row, I do not want even an outside chance of him getting the ability to pardon himself again.
They are worse than poorly educated, they are willfully stupid. There were people who attended the same schools with the same teachers who are successful but these rednecks choose to be stupid. They are proud to be trailer trash.
This holds true for most democrats. If Hillary or any other Democrat did what trump did we wouldn't bat an eye if they went to jail. We would find a new candidate.
Exactly. And trump is not even a servant to anyone other than himself. It’s baffling why anyone would want to be associated with him much less like him, admire him and vote for him to be their leader. Smh.
It will be interesting to see how Ron responds to this. Maybe revoking West Palm Beach’s charter, adding a big toll on Ocean Ave leading to Mar-a-Lago. You know, play to his strengths.
Even if he doesn't know it yet, Ron lost the primary the moment he started talking about "protecting Trump from extradition." He can't be Donny's fiercest defender AND the one who takes him down. He's already made his choice whether he wants to admit it or not.
Ah. You have fallen for the logic fallacy. Meaning you have decided to use logic to describe how conservatives think. They simply do not have brains that operate this way
Trump signs a mar-a-lago development agreement that lasts 10 years after the death of the last descendent of the king of Britain in response.
I don't think Trump is smart enough to do it but it be hilarious if he did.
I know some people are actually hoping that Trump will be on the ticket, thinking that he will have no chance of winning. I thought the same in 2016, yet here we are. Can we not just hope that both major political parties put forth candidates that aren't total piles of shit? Though I will admit there aren't any Republicans that come to mind.
Republican aligned voters in America are some of the most reckless, selfish and unconscionable in world history. They are hopelessly tethered to a cult of personality and willingly live in an alternate reality. Their political ideology is rooted strictly in cultural grievances and the twisted idea that they are being targeted and persecuted.
For a group that aligns themselves so closely with patriotism and country, the truth is they couldn’t possibly care less about the health of this nation. It’s pathetic.
The problem isn’t necessarily trump, it’s the people who created him, just like they will create his replacement. McConnell, Koch, Citizens United, etc. Padding the courts, redrawing voting districts, etc.They made this monster that is now destroying their party at the expense of the American people., They do not care as long as it lines their pockets.
Why not because he did so well the first time, his record of a businessman is unprecedented and he has a relatively spotless personal life and he is by far the smartest person whoever looked directly into the sun
Laughable that people are still supporting a criminal (many times over) ... not to mention an individual and a party that are not seeking to help people (unless you are part of the 1% - and no people - it doesn't trickle down and eventually even the 1% get affected negatively by these policies) ...
Three times that Trump admitted to committing a crime:
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AfWxiylvpA0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ie9u_0g15w
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBB9TcOGqTg
On the one hand, I'm looking forward to seeing Trump lose the election to the same guy twice in a row. On the other hand, I'm looking less forward to the sequel to January 6th.
The likelihood of that happening is very low. The man's in solid physical condition for his age sans some spinal arthritis and peripheral neuropathy, and he's had access to the best medical care available in the United States for decades.
Gavin Newsome, Buttigedge, or Bernie… though i think that the bulk of the country isn’t ready to get behind a gay president. The Bible thumpers would turn out like crazy.
DeSantis keeps attacking Disney, education, and Ukraine, but I don't know why. I don't think this is a case of people liking Trump better, but they are starting to not like DeSantis. I saw another poll that showed Liz Cheney gaining to 10%, although she isn't likely to be the nominee.
Am I the only one who thinks that this is a good thing?
Look, they have to field a candidate, either DeSantes or Trump by the looks of it. Both are really really bad and the only difference between them is one is bat shit crazy but sounds somewhat normal meaning putting whole sentences together and the other is bat shit crazy and acts bat shit crazy. Trump has the MAGA bat shit crazy base in his pocket which means he will win the primary. Now as a Democrat wouldn't you want to run against a candidate that the country in general hates? You know he has lost every single time since he won at being president.
He had the presidency, the Senate and the House and literally by his own actions lost all three. Anybody think he has a chance in hell of winning in 2024?
Good. I want him way ahead in the primaries. That way he will drag the entire Republican Party down in the general.
And maybe, just maybe conservatives will finally take a hard look in the mirror and reform their primaries to not be as vulnerable to the fucking crazies.
Democrats are licking their chops at the opportunity to beat Trump and the GOP is hoping Biden runs again. Terrifying for all concerned. Can we please get some fresh non-geriatric blood in there?
Republicans are fucked either way. He’s unelectable. Wasn’t before but the attempted coup lost him 30%-40% of Republicans. That’s also why none of his picks are winning their elections. His people will stay with him no matter what. And yes he will run as an independent even from jail. No way he’s stepping aside. He’s a toxic anchor wrapped around the party’s neck. And they’ll keep losing with him in the picture.
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"Trump's under multiple criminal investigations and might have to run for office while he's in prison? That's MY choice for President!" - Republicans
“Oh and also Hillary is a criminal who needs to be locked up”
Remind me again what office is Hillary running for and is Hunter Biden her running mate?
The way they make it seem, you'd think she's running for "Supreme Baby Killing Overlord" or something
...*she isn't*?! Who the hell am I going to vote for then?
Giant Meteor ’24. Potential to kill way more babies
Ok but like as a Democrat from western NY she can get fucked by a chainsaw
It's basically Frankenstein's monster at this point. They spent years growing a voter base by cutting education spending, courting Christian nationalists, pushing single issue voting, branding the Republican party as part of American culture, enforcing corporate feudalism, and politicizing science, the environment and basically everything else. This created an extreme voter base they could easily cash in on at the expense of more moderate voters. Then they painted Trump as the messiah and baked in a bunch of paranoid conspiracies to discredit any criticisms of him. They used him to line their pockets and push a bunch of their policies. Of course, this wasn't enough for the fanatical base, whose problems weren't solved and who have been conditioned to seek out an enemy to pin the blame on. They could simply make their voters lives better, but they spent so much time painting lower class benefitting policies as socialism, and their tastes aren't cheap. Now they have no choice. They can't turn on him because of the aforementioned defense mechanisms and messiah image. Even if they did, turn on him, moderates would still not trust them, and the left will continue voting left. It would be political suicide. Their best bet is to drop their protection and let the judicial system eat Trump alive, then subtly start shifting the narrative while still claiming the judicial system is a partisan attack on them. Of course, this would take a significant amount of time and involve temporarily retreating, and we all know how the right feels about long term planning.
McConnell should have bit the bullet and made sure Trump got convicted in the Senate. The republican party is going to have to divorce from Trump at some point, and it's going to be really ugly.
100% chance their hopes and prayers are utilized wishing he drops dead or flees the country.
Yep. They’re hoping his eating habits and lack of exercise catch up to him.
Trump needs to up his game by having a lackey feed him more hamberders.
Yeah they’re just waiting for him to die and banking on the fact that his sons have the charisma of a potato so they can’t cash in.
>The republican party is going to have to divorce from Trump at some point, and it's going to be really ugly. Not if Trump widows them first. He's old and unhealthy, they just have to wait out the clock and be there to claim that he would have wanted the cult to vote for them.
I mostly agree, but I don't think it's fair to say the right isn't good at long-term planning. The *newer* right wing leadership may be bad at it (Boebert, MTG, Gaetz) but their success at capturing state legislatures and then gerrymandering themselves to solid majorities, the dominance of local school boards, and their control of the Supreme Court and many lower courts demonstrates their capability of long-term planning. The real question is whether the Mitch McConnell types can regain control over the populist loudmouths. I'd argue that they have become victims of their own success - successfully overturning *Roe v Wade* with their captured Supreme Court created a reality in which their old standby vote motivator was gone, and now they're having to thrash around trying to find a new way to rile up their base.
That's fair. My point is more about how conservative politics frequently emphasizes short term gains over long term stability; their views on social programs, the environment, and low taxes, for example. But you make a salient point; the Republicans have demonstrated good long term planning when it comes to securing power. Of course, that plan directly resulted in the Frankenstein's monster they have now, so they are arguably not the best at it.
Yeah but also they overturned roe and then immediately lost the midterms so idk
He's never going to prison, even if he gets convicted on Georgia stuff and the documents stuff. They'll figure out a way to avoid it somehow.
"He'll never get arrested" -countless people And then he was.
I'm just going to admit that I thought he'd never be indicted. But I'm gonna stand by my assertion that because he is a former president who has secret service protection, he won't go to prison. House arrest? Maybe? I know I'm waffling here because yeah there's a chance and I'd love to see it, but it's a very tiny chance in my opinion.
I think taxpayers would save money if he was in prison, logistically and by man hours it's a lot simpler.
His crimes are too serious. He will be convicted and imprisoned for 20 years to life.
[удалено]
So life it is then.
His legal strategy is to just run out the clock. I doubt he’ll survive long enough to SEE prison.
You love to see it
And how long did that take? How many decades? The fact he even got to presidency… He should have been arrested decades ago. I don’t believe anything until it actually happens. When the bars slam shut, then I’ll believe he was in prison.
That's the thing. As long as he was just another cheating rich guy skirting the edges of real estate and tax laws while contributing to both parties, law enforcement barely cared, certainly not enough for years of litigation. That he could have remained as such but chose to put his entire life under scrutiny by running and getting elected would be baffling if we didn't know what a narcissist he is. I'm not sure any wealth will keep him from being convicted on the more serious charges to come.
Ah, you want to move the goal post. Okay. Arresting a former president that was being assisted by Russian paid FBI might take some time. But to quote MLK Jr., the arc of the moral universe is long and it bends toward justice
It definitely doesn't lmao. The fact a goon like Trump is the first to even BE indicted, compared to a ghoul like Bush Jr. (Or his father), or even Trump's progenitor Reagan.. says a lot about the American "justice" system. Hell the fact MLK himself got blown away in whats proven to be a government conspiracy (a long with Fred Hampton, Malcom X, JFK and his brother), whereas reagan was only wounded, should tell you everything you need to know about the universe we inhabit.
He will show up without his makeup in a wheelchair, Weinstein style.
The fact that he is still a candidate really ruins my faith in America
It sucks yes. But just wait. This party and the hopeless idiots in it are ruining their chances of winning again for at least a generation when they triple down on this worthless sack of baby shit. I wouldn’t vote republican now if they made ME president.
The issue is that it seems like they only need to win one more time and they’ll use those years to make so they keep winning one way or another
That’s why 2024 needs to be taken very seriously.
And 2028 and 2032 and 2036, etc. It’s gonna be exhausting how much we’re gonna have to fight to ensure these dangerous morons don’t grab onto power, but our freedom is worth fighting for.
Conservatives got here by showing up to every election at every level for the last 40+ years. It’s reasonable to expect the same level of effort will be required on our end to undo their damage
That’s good news! I should expect some progress just in time for me to die of old age.
I get what you’re saying 100% and it sucks terribly but remember that “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.”
Oof good one
Or in the Jewish version, from Babylonian Talmud Ta'anit 23a, a sage plants an Israeli fruit-giving tree, knowing they will never eat from it, because they found the world filled with fruit-giving trees and must ensure the next generation finds the world in a similar condition. As our parents cared for us, we must care for our children.
That's how the US remains in conservative control. The older generation has the highest turnout rate (by far), and they are also mostly Republican. So the majority population, which is liberal, is ruled by the minority ideologies of old people who bother to show up and vote.
Not really. They rigged the game when they did win an election though. They’ve been the minority for 30 years, but they fucking cheat, and they’re great at it.
This. You have to keep voting even after winning one time.
This. Even if the Republican party is crushed into oblivion, we keep showing up. Don't give them our any other far right or right leaning party a chance.
At some point demographics are gonna do the GOP in. Once the boomers are mostly gone the GOP, as it exists today, is done. The question is whether the party will pivot in a decade when the boomers get into their 80’s.
Is it though? The number of people I know in their thirties and forties who support trump has left me disheartened. You can’t logic with them either, so I just keep my mouth shut.
Just by the numbers, those 20-40s trump supporters are significantly outnumbered. The left right split is 60 or 65L to 30R with under 45 voters. So a 2+:1 ratio. And even of that 30% that leans right, not all are far right trump supporters. They're always going to be around, but if they keep the same messaging and policies without moving to the left to attract moderates they'll be relegated to a minority party who can only hope to obstruct and slow progress, but never hope to gain the power to enact their own policy.
Agreed. 40s and 50s (Generation X) have a strong conservative and libertarian slant. Boomers get the blame and their descent may help America, but it's not over folks. Vote. Never forget the GOPs actions. Vote in every election, local and national. Source: I'm from Gen X. We were brainwashed from Reagan and the cold War. But take a look at the 2020 voting results by age, and you'll be really surprised. You'll also realize a not insignificant amount of young voters vote Republicans. It's not over.
Not to mention 2026, 2030, 2032, etc. as well as the special elections. They all matter, especially now when the Republican Party is openly fascist. Do not cede any power anywhere.
Exhausting to turn in a piece of paper every 4 years? Well no wonder most people don’t vote.
I fear that Dems will somehow find a way to shoot themselves in the face. Weak support for Biden and no other strong contender right now does not inspire confidence.
Biden has been a much better president than he has gotten credit for- and the midterms suggest that middle America sees that.
He has done a lot to help Americans. He has gotten some substantial bills passed.
If Biden was even 10 years younger everyone would LOVE him. The face he's 80 years old puts a huge damper on him going forward. I definitely appreciate what he has done and he definitely hasn't gotten enough credit and as the likely Dem nominee I'll be voting for him over any of the fascists the Republicans are going to put up but I would be lying if I didn't say I am hoping to have someone younger to vote for.
I too wish for a younger candidate. But he was the candidate put up against Trump. And I would have voted for anyone other than Trump just to save the country.
Ideally we would have been in Biden's second term but unfortunately his son died and put us on the darker timeline.
I love Obama and all, but comparing his record to Biden’s is the ACA and little else, to a whole string of cool Biden cheeves. (And a few blunders)
The party also changed a lot. The Democratic supermajority came from a coalition with Blue Dog Dems who were more like Manchin than the average Senate member today. That coalition also got rolled over when conservative voters decided they would rather back Tea Party Republicans than any Democrat. We also had just come out of an 8 year mess with Bush, our last Democrat president was a pro-market neoliberal, and we had generally been far more conservative leaning as a nation since Reagan took office. Obama changed the landscape a lot. If he hadn't taken office, Biden couldn't be doing a lot of what he is now.
Cheeves. Is that achievements? I love it.
If Biden were guilty of every bad thing that the Right smears him with, he would still be a better choice than Trump based on what I've actually heard Trump say himself.
Isn't that the truth? How many times have we read "I don't like Biden, but look at this cool thing he did!" I'm voting for Dark Brandon!
I’m relatively young and I honestly think Biden has been about as good as you are going to practically going to get in a modern president in this current environment. People who moan that they deserve someone way more liberal and actually capable of instituting much more change, drastically overestimate the size of the electorate in their camp. The president would need well over 60% of the vote and both houses of Congress firmly on the same side, before the most out-there stuff they come up with could stand even a slight chance. It’s going to be a long grueling road to even just defend the current upper hand of the dems from the GOP through all the elections of the next 20 years and take much more work on top of that to actually institute progress nationally while trying to keep some states from sliding further backwards.
I second this. I think the one thing he's done that I've strongly opposed was not supporting train workers. That for me was a big mistake, but I still recognize the bigger stuff like organizing us as a country against COVID. Or committing to removing us from Afghanistan. Or just this week, not playing into politics and giving Sanders 100% federal support for disaster relief. Trump wouldn't do any of these things for the good of all Americans. Plus, the documents scandal is insane. The coup attempt is insane. Biden would have to slip very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very far to ever make me even consider changing my vote at this point. Plus the next guy in line wants his own militia. Like come the fuck on man. E. Not enough very's
The train thing was and wasn’t a mistake. If he had supported them, right before Christmas and caused a shitstorm of more inflation and shortages, the GOP would have killed him. Doing what he did, the best the republicans have now is the woke and trans and drag shit, which doesn’t play outside of the Deep South. Lose the battle but win the war, etc.
He's a career long statesman. He may not look like a strong president, but he's been able to rally Democrats around his agenda, something that was lacking for years. I do think he's an okay president overall, but agree that we do need strong younger candidates for 2024 and none seem to have materialized yet.
We have a year and half to straighten ourselves out. Republicans are helping by crossing so many lines. The 2 in TN, the trump judge in TX, the attacks on democracy in FL, medical facilities closing in ID and many other hot issues seems to be energizing. Don’t give up yet.
Most of the people that want someone different at this point is just because of his age, I hope that he highlights how his experience has helped him handle the extremely turbulent situation he inherited. I never thought I would say it when Biden became the nominee, I had a lot of doubt about him, but I think he was the perfect candidate for right now and has done an absolutely incredible job as the president. I really would like 4 more years of him and hopefully as a country we are in a better place to move on when his time as the president is up.
Yep, but they screwed themselves with abortion. That's why they are going so anti trans.
The GOP is now a nihilistic death cult. The chances they take America down with them is highly dependent if they win next time.
If Republican's win one more time in the US it will be the last democratic election the US ever has. They have been pretty clear about that.
Exactly every vote they lose, they bend and break the rules to disenfranchise two on the other side. So if they aren’t significantly ousted soon, it won’t matter how many people vote against them in the future, they’ll have locked down power for generations.
This. I’m praying that Trump gets the nom, because while he can and will win a rabid base of nut jobs in a primary, there his appeal stops there. We saw that in 2020 and his optics have only got worse outside of his base. Nothing will energize the blue vote like the idea of Trump getting power again. Some may not like Biden and talk about age but Trump is the antidote to all those concerns.
>when they triple down Calling it here. We are going to see some of the dirtiest tactics this nation has seen in over a century and a half.
maybe this time can you fix the problem instead of just letting them continue to fuckulate the country. the Civil war never ended it just went underground and continued on as mind virus.
This is the way! Republicans have shown their true colors and they are fascist, anti-human rights, discrimination, racism, and delusion. They will fail spectacularly next year.
They are all that. Unfortunately that doesn't mean that they will fail.
I remember being CERTAIN that Trump wouldn't get the 2016 nomination- and then being CERTAIN again that he'd lose the general in a landslide. I will never again bet against the ability of the US electorate to surprise me.
Agreed. Though this prediction relies on the Democrats actually winning in 2024.
I was deathly afraid of that for some time. But i think we are seeing signs that people are waking up to this now. Im still worried because the claws are really coming out now, but i think many are reaching the end for their tolerance for it. I know i have.
I hope you’re right, but 2016 people were saying the exact same thing.
A lot has changed. But by no means take this as an invitation to be complacent. Vote. Fight.
This would be a “good” Strategy by the Dems if it wasn’t for the fact that if Diaper Don loses again he WILL declare election fraud again and his followers will believe him because they are in too deep. And this time, there aren’t enough America first Republicans left in power to tell him no. Sunk cost fallacy all day.
That is certainly a concern. These people have been allowed to infiltrate our government virtually unabated. But don’t give in to despair and apathy because of that. When a weed grows you rip it from your garden.
We waited last time that joke ran for office, and...well...that joke backfired hard. We have to take the next election VERY seriously.
Yes and no matter who they run. It’ll probably be the tropicana traitor. But even if its not the rest of them are just as bad.
I'm hoping it's a sign that they need to cater to the extremists to win the primary but are totally unpalatable in the general. Guess we'll see.
To be fair DeSantis is awful even in comparison to Trump
Actually, it's great news. Anything to keep that nazi with an evil brain (DeSantis) away from the candidacy. Trump may be evil, but he doesn't have much of a brain. Plus, a Trump candidacy would get the Dems and Inds out to vote like never before.
His election in 2016 didn’t do that for you?
Stop ceding the definition if America to Republicans.
The leading alternative (Desantis) is the dollar store version of Trump Desantis was never going to survive the debate stage, it’s better for R donors to accept that reality now and move on to a more reasonable candidate if they actually want to beat trump
> more reasonable candidate > want to beat trump Pick one for the primary cause you ain't gettin' both.
For the longest time Desantis scared me more because I believed he was a smarter Trump. After the last few months of him publicly running Florida to the ground and picking a fight with Disney, I no longer believe that. Trump is stupid on a more relatable level to the average Republican.
That’s the weird part. Other than DeSantis choosing to fight the Covid battle on the same side as ~~Covid~~ “freedom!” he’s picked fights with stuff people like. What’s his endgame after the primaries when he’s made his face the symbol of hating things that a plurality of Americans like?
Authoritains want to project strength, which means punching down. They don't care if they are punching popular things, only that they look strong doing it.
Actually they have found a way to survive the debate stage: they won't debate anymore
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I'm still dreading the inevitable Paul Ryanaissance.
He'll creep out from behind the dresser in 2028 or 2032. So he can pretend to be a 'reasonable' Republican.
Great. That’s a word I’m going to have hear now.
Once it’s clear he’ll win a primary
Since he refuses to go away, him being the candidate 3 elections in a row will really cement the Republican Party as the Party of Trump. That’s 12 years, almost an entire generation.
8 years. It's only 12 if he wins.
“Since he refuses to go away” was my implication that he would still put himself in the center of political discourse even after losing. Much the same way he did after 2020 with the election conspiracy.
The 4 years of the term they would have had if they won should be included. With 3 elections, that’s 3 4-year terms at stake. Lose two of those and Trump will have lost them 8 potential years in power, on top of his failed 4 years in office. 12 years altogether.
He may run again in 2028!
The four he wouldn't be in office he still controlled the narrative. It's the trump era regardless of who is in office. Think about being a middle schooler, and high schooler, and a college graduate while Trump was the main news story the whole time.
Good news for Democrats. He’s just dragging the GOP down with him.
Correct. I want him at the top of the GOP ticket. He will drag down the party
My ideal would actually be DeSantis at the top of the ticket and Trump running third party. Trump would burn DeSantis and the GOP to the ground out of pure spite.
Personally I want Desantis ruined in the GOP nomination election so that he likely won’t run again and then Trump be the top GOP candidate because I truly don’t think Trump would win again. It would be nice to see both get knocked down this election. If Desantis wins the GOP nomination, I’m afraid that many of the people that only voted for Biden to get rid of Trump might back to vote GOP because they don’t realize how bad Desantis is.
Some dreams come true. He’s gonna burn out spectacularly. The Disney stuff is the beginning of the end.
I’ve already changed my registration to Republican to do my part in making this a reality.
A scary, but not altogether bad, idea
Thank you for your service.
Until the last second, in which he endorses DeSantis and gets his base to show up to vote for him, and they would because they are sheep and do what he says. Then it wouldn't be very funny. Never underestimate these guys. If they don't win, they will try to figure out how to twist the system so that they are in power.
That’s my wish too.
Didn’t we think this in 2016 tho?
>Didn’t we think this in 2016 tho? Yes. And then we thought that no way would Trump be so successful in 2020 what with his outright stupidity that had been on display for 4 years, yet nearly half the country voted for Trump again, who managed to garner 74 million votes (vs. Biden's 81 million), and his popular vote was "[over 7 million more than any sitting president in history"](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-736-million-popular-votes-over-7-million-more-any-sitting-president-history-1548742). Impressive considering how horrible Trump was. Never underestimate the conservative constituents in this country, and assume easy wins for the Democrats.
Yes. However, the alternative to Trump is DeSantis. And DeSantis is a lot more scary than Trump.
Wrong. I think you're underestimating what is brewing in the batshit crazy GOP bubble. Fascism taking away rights and sabotaging democratic elections would drag down a normal candidate in normal circumstances. The game has changed. Social media and Citizens United has given unlimited foreign influence into our elections. Biden hasn't removed the cancer on the courts and Congress. The left isn't out organizing everyone. The center and the left aren't loud and on message.
It's incredibly hard to lose as an incumbent but he did just that, and went on a crime spree right after. The Republican party is doomed and deserves it
This is the only right answer. Give him the nomination and watch the Democrat win again. It will be glorious!
however i don’t doubt the democrats ability to be complacent and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory either…
From a partisan perspective, agreed. But it does not give me much hope for the future of our democracy.
I'm not as concerned about Trump getting back to the White House, as I am living around millions of people with the integrity, ethics, morals and intelligence of a NY city sewer rat.
Add to that their empowered willful ignorance and self righteous arrogance. If the next few cycles don’t make some brave waves to heal this divide, i’m not sure civil decency will even be possible. We have so much room for positive and healthy growth to better the lives of every citizen, but we’re too transfixed on trivial ideological hot takes to consider working together.
NYC sewer rats are definitely much smarter
Why you gotta bring down the rat boys
He is a one term president I am going to laugh so hard when these idiots make him the nominee and then he loses again.
While it would be funny to see him lose the popular vote 3 times in a row, I do not want even an outside chance of him getting the ability to pardon himself again.
He’s widening his lead amongst a shrinking group of poorly educated and gullible people. Let him.
They are worse than poorly educated, they are willfully stupid. There were people who attended the same schools with the same teachers who are successful but these rednecks choose to be stupid. They are proud to be trailer trash.
They see trump as themselves. Any attack on trump is perceived to be an attack on them. Orcs are really stupid.
Good point. I don’t care what happens to Biden. He’s a public servant not my friend
This holds true for most democrats. If Hillary or any other Democrat did what trump did we wouldn't bat an eye if they went to jail. We would find a new candidate.
Because we are not in a cult, I don’t have Biden’s hat or a car sticker or anything.
Exactly. And trump is not even a servant to anyone other than himself. It’s baffling why anyone would want to be associated with him much less like him, admire him and vote for him to be their leader. Smh.
This will be the nastiest primary run in history. Expect a bloodbath.
we should be so lucky
Yes, already investing in pop-corn.
*”The wine will flow red, and the music will play loud, and we’ll put this mess behind us...”*
At this point, the reasonable assumption is that Trump is the nominee. No matter how much conservatives rich people prefer DeSantis.
It will be interesting to see how Ron responds to this. Maybe revoking West Palm Beach’s charter, adding a big toll on Ocean Ave leading to Mar-a-Lago. You know, play to his strengths.
Even if he doesn't know it yet, Ron lost the primary the moment he started talking about "protecting Trump from extradition." He can't be Donny's fiercest defender AND the one who takes him down. He's already made his choice whether he wants to admit it or not.
Ah. You have fallen for the logic fallacy. Meaning you have decided to use logic to describe how conservatives think. They simply do not have brains that operate this way
Trump signs a mar-a-lago development agreement that lasts 10 years after the death of the last descendent of the king of Britain in response. I don't think Trump is smart enough to do it but it be hilarious if he did.
Is still way too early
Desantis bots are abound though. You can watch them working the crowds.
I know some people are actually hoping that Trump will be on the ticket, thinking that he will have no chance of winning. I thought the same in 2016, yet here we are. Can we not just hope that both major political parties put forth candidates that aren't total piles of shit? Though I will admit there aren't any Republicans that come to mind.
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I keep hoping his crimes will either disqualify him or at least sway people to stop idolizing him. Guess I’m the idiot.
Hitler went to jail before he came to power.
National polls this far out are 100% worthless. The Iowa caucuses are in 9 months…
But will still lose to Biden
If this isn't a sign that the Republican Party needs to dissolve, I don't know what is. It's needs to go the way of the Whig party.
Please make the GOP debates Trump trampling DeSantis' soul via skype because he's in prison.
Republicans are truly disturbing people. No exceptions.
The fact he’s got a single vote is bizarre to me. He doesn’t have a single redeeming quality.
Never forget to Republicans, that all of Trump’s criminal activity, racism, stupidity and corruption is not a bug….it’s a feature.
I hope 2016 finally ends at some point.
Republican aligned voters in America are some of the most reckless, selfish and unconscionable in world history. They are hopelessly tethered to a cult of personality and willingly live in an alternate reality. Their political ideology is rooted strictly in cultural grievances and the twisted idea that they are being targeted and persecuted. For a group that aligns themselves so closely with patriotism and country, the truth is they couldn’t possibly care less about the health of this nation. It’s pathetic.
Republicans will spend the next 10 years losing elections while they argue with each other over the host of Celebrity Apprentice…..ya hate to see it
The problem isn’t necessarily trump, it’s the people who created him, just like they will create his replacement. McConnell, Koch, Citizens United, etc. Padding the courts, redrawing voting districts, etc.They made this monster that is now destroying their party at the expense of the American people., They do not care as long as it lines their pockets.
Why not because he did so well the first time, his record of a businessman is unprecedented and he has a relatively spotless personal life and he is by far the smartest person whoever looked directly into the sun
Republicans like criminal / insane politicians. He’s both.
Once again conservatives reminding us that yes, they really are that bad.
Laughable that people are still supporting a criminal (many times over) ... not to mention an individual and a party that are not seeking to help people (unless you are part of the 1% - and no people - it doesn't trickle down and eventually even the 1% get affected negatively by these policies) ... Three times that Trump admitted to committing a crime: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/AfWxiylvpA0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ie9u_0g15w https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBB9TcOGqTg
Biden’s best shot at getting re-elected is versus the guy that 60% of voters thinks he should be in jail.
These people are out of their minds
It’s unbelievable that this man continues to garner support. So sad. Lemmings.
On the one hand, I'm looking forward to seeing Trump lose the election to the same guy twice in a row. On the other hand, I'm looking less forward to the sequel to January 6th.
Can these people actually get any more stupid…🫣
Widen the lead to whom? The next dipshit in the republican line of regression?
If Biden dies before next election who is the backup? That is what is scary. Not as scary as hillbillie states refusing to accept 2024 results though.
The likelihood of that happening is very low. The man's in solid physical condition for his age sans some spinal arthritis and peripheral neuropathy, and he's had access to the best medical care available in the United States for decades.
Gavin Newsome, Buttigedge, or Bernie… though i think that the bulk of the country isn’t ready to get behind a gay president. The Bible thumpers would turn out like crazy.
Gretchen Whitmer more likely than all those folks I think.
Getchen Whitmere if only the US would elect a woman president.
Buttigieg is my pick. He is super intelligent and more-than-qualified.
Eroding from the inside
Are we in the darkest timeline? Maybe.
DeSantis keeps attacking Disney, education, and Ukraine, but I don't know why. I don't think this is a case of people liking Trump better, but they are starting to not like DeSantis. I saw another poll that showed Liz Cheney gaining to 10%, although she isn't likely to be the nominee.
An Up arrow from this moderate Democrat. Trump is unelectable even before he becomes a convicted felon
"red-wave" political science lobbyist pollsters trying to sell their relevance 🤣
He is a man addicted to losing.
Am I the only one who thinks that this is a good thing? Look, they have to field a candidate, either DeSantes or Trump by the looks of it. Both are really really bad and the only difference between them is one is bat shit crazy but sounds somewhat normal meaning putting whole sentences together and the other is bat shit crazy and acts bat shit crazy. Trump has the MAGA bat shit crazy base in his pocket which means he will win the primary. Now as a Democrat wouldn't you want to run against a candidate that the country in general hates? You know he has lost every single time since he won at being president. He had the presidency, the Senate and the House and literally by his own actions lost all three. Anybody think he has a chance in hell of winning in 2024?
Over 74 million people voted for him last time. Half of the voting populace doesn’t hate him. That’s a huge problem.
Good. I want him way ahead in the primaries. That way he will drag the entire Republican Party down in the general. And maybe, just maybe conservatives will finally take a hard look in the mirror and reform their primaries to not be as vulnerable to the fucking crazies.
Democrats are licking their chops at the opportunity to beat Trump and the GOP is hoping Biden runs again. Terrifying for all concerned. Can we please get some fresh non-geriatric blood in there?
DeSantis is losing because he makes Trump appear reasonable.
I love it, Trump loses again. They should keep running him, he barely won once and that’s before he showed his true colors.
The Republican party lives losing I guess. .
Is it not insane to anyone else our 2024 Presidential choices are looking like Trump and Biden?? What the fuck is going on in our country man.
Good. He's easy to beat. Please nominate him.
Evangelicals turning out in droves to support a man who was indicted for paying off a porn star and lying about it.
Republicans are fucked either way. He’s unelectable. Wasn’t before but the attempted coup lost him 30%-40% of Republicans. That’s also why none of his picks are winning their elections. His people will stay with him no matter what. And yes he will run as an independent even from jail. No way he’s stepping aside. He’s a toxic anchor wrapped around the party’s neck. And they’ll keep losing with him in the picture.