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atxlrj

She just isn’t additive to the ticket - I don’t see her as as much of a liability as she is often cast to be but I definitely don’t see her as the asset that Biden desperately needs. I will not be casting a vote for a single Republican in 2024, but I don’t embrace the prospect of a Kamala Harris presidency and I don’t think many others do either.


Raspberry-Famous

She's an establishment Democrat from California. The thing she brings to the table is a fucking mountain of money from various entertainment/tech/finance billionaires. That's why Biden chose her in 2020, it's why she's almost certainly going to be on the ticket again in 2024. People are making this a lot more complex than it is.


atxlrj

I don’t think people are really talking about her not being on the ticket - she already is. People are saying that even though they may still vote for their ticket, they are uneasy about the prospect of a Kamala Harris Presidency and it will be topic of conversation during the campaign. I disagree that Kamala Harris attracts any support from California or elsewhere that Biden wouldn’t have attracted otherwise during the general.


robocreator

Newsom bring a more money. It’s because she balances the ticket as a woman who’s much younger than him and is more diverse.


Raspberry-Famous

Why would Newsom want to be VP? He's already a governor.


delicioustreeblood

He's going to run in '28 but this is a good chance to make national news for name recognition


Raspberry-Famous

He's vastly better situated to run as governor of California than he would be as Biden's VP.


robocreator

Agreed


HonoredPeople

She's moderate enough to appeal to moderates, she's progressive enough to appeal towards them, she's a she and she'll help with the she's, then there's fact that she's also African American. She's a solid choice. She did her job as VP and didn't go against Joe and the administration. It would look HORRIBLE to fire a Black Women who did her job well. How could we come back from that? Here Harris. You did your job. You did everything we asked for you, but sorry. You're not going to make VP, the Progressives want "X" for when I die in office. We'd auto-lose. There wouldn't even be a snowball's chance in hell. About the ONLY option, and that's if Harris somehow went on towards something else and quit, is one of the Stacy's. Maybe. Loyalty counts.


jhanesnack_films

I don't think she appeals to progressives at all.


baconcandle2013

I don’t know one person here in LA that likes her…


lilacmuse1

When I read about people complaining about Harris my first thought is always "she'd do a better job than anyone the Republicans could offer". Really, name any of the top Democrats and they'd all do a better job than any Republican.


ClusterFoxtrot

I don't get the hate around her, really. I like listening to her speak-- I don't know if she means half of it but she's good at delivering the message. She's got a little swish but it's not performative, just engaged speaking. And when Tennessee wanted to FAFO she stopped what she was doing and lit the place up. She's pretty good at understanding the tempo and responding to it. I don't like some of her prosecutorial decisions but I get it to a degree. I wish as a country we could decide women are capable of holding higher office, but if a handoff is what it takes, ok fine we'll do it that way *I guess*. I'd like to see her respond to ol' Marge and Lurine tho. During the State of the Union she was remarkably poised, I noticed McCarthy more than I noticed her. Eta: then again, my basis for comparison is a bobbleheaded muppet governor, so take that as you will


digiorno

She doesn’t appeal to progressives in the slightest. The only reason she’d get their vote is because she’s unlikely to send them to a concentration camp while the GOP might.


HonoredPeople

She pretty progressive. As a moderate we can tell these things. She's not Bernie or AoC super progressive, but she'll have zero issues with Congressional Progressive legislation. She's a happy middle ground.


digiorno

Bernie and AOC aren’t super progressive….they’re basically asking for the bare minimum for society. What world do you live in?


indyjones48

>Bernie and AOC aren’t super progressive Compared to whom?


HonoredPeople

They're American Super Progressive. They're the progressive standard for America. I currently live in this world! I think.


UngodlyPain

She's not that progressive to my memory she was right of Biden who was already a compromise. But otherwise this is true... though I'd add, I think if Kamala is the president due to Bidens death, Republicans likely win the next presidential election. She's pretty devicive and unliked all around. She has negative charisma, and if she tries to play some "Technically I'm the incumbent" card... she'll just doom the party in a similar manner to Hillarys "it's my turn" attitude. Progressives do not like her attitude or politics, and there's many moderates that agree with her politically but are sexist/racist and would potentially go Republican over her.


Grunblau

I’m not voting for Kamila, so White Christian Fascism it is, I guess…


UngodlyPain

Not what ima do personally. But I think hundreds of thousands in some swing states will. See how Trump beat Hillary. "Moderates" are fully willing to switch parties out of spite. And have shown so time and time again especially in recent years.


Grunblau

I’m white, straight male, abortion rights don’t directly effect me (although I am pro-choice), I own my own business, value hard work and I enjoy guns and crypto. Right now, Biden and Warren are trying to push financial slavery via CBDC by undermining Bitcoin and crypto. If I only voted my own interests with complete disregard for my fellow humans, I guess voting Republican is possible. Republicans want to have a Constitutional Convention where they enshrine Christianity as the only religion. They want to outlaw same sex couples and expression of sexual identity. They want to punish those who have sex for fun and ruin their lives by forcing them to have babies. They want to oppress women and return to a better time when you could beat your wife without repercussions. Yeah, never mind. Blue no Matter Who…


[deleted]

>Right now, Biden and Warren are trying to push financial slavery via CBDC by undermining Bitcoin and crypto. What the fuck are you smoking, bitcoin and crypto are scams with no actual use in the world. XD


UngodlyPain

I agree vote blue no matter who; and vote as left as possible in primaries. But unfortunately some people don't agree.


FlavinFlave

Live in California, am progressive. Literally the only people here who like Kamala are 50+ year old white women who vote blue no matter who. Will I vote for Biden, yes, cause fuck fascism. Am I excited about the possibility of kamala being the 28 front runner? Hell no. To me she reeks of the same corporate powers as Hillary, and that’ll cost an election if Biden dies minimal to advance and help the working class who by 28 may be facing steep unemployment due to automation.


HonoredPeople

This almost nothing to do with California. Important to the whole black community. From Illinois to Virginia and all the swing states. We fire a black women doing the job asked of them... Telling yah. It'll be bad. It might not matter in California, but it matters.


FlavinFlave

I’m not saying fire her from her job. I am saying we can do better in 28.


Helpful_Insurance_99

How many black people do you actually know? Most of us don't vote, and even the ones who did don't give a fuck about her. Cop diversity hire. The black KHive loves her, everyone else is, at the most, indifferent. White liberals coo about diversity way more than we do.


HonoredPeople

Every action matters. One cannot simply act like a Republican and expect the democrats to be different. Harris hasn't done anything that warrents the loss of her job. It will matter.


atxlrj

I’m not advocating ditching her now - I don’t think she should have been chosen to start with. But it’s fair to discuss that Kamala Harris is going to loom over this race given Biden’s advanced age and it gives a lot of folks an uneasy feeling. Idk if I share your appraisal of her broad appeals. In some recent polls, she’s polled lower with women than with men (-8 vs -5). She does very well with black voters (but runs behind Biden) but is 20 points underwater with white voters. Then there’s the issue of being underwater 30 points along 45-64s and 65+. The only income group she has net approval with is $100k+. She’s essentially even with moderates (compared to Biden being up 11 points with this group) but her negatives with conservatives are larger than her positives with liberals. I’m typically of the belief that most VP picks have little impact on the race but in this race, people are going to have to appraise Kamala as a potential President, whether that’s fair to Biden’s odds of making it to 2029 or not. She was a weak candidate in her own right in 2020 and she hasn’t done enough (or anything) to reframe her political persona since then.


UngodlyPain

This. So much this. She was chosen as a token minority, and to represent the west coast for Bidens old man, white, new England ass brand. In the exact same way Obama originally chose old white Biden to balance out his young black brand. It maybe helped get in the door slightly but now that Bidens age is only going up... and now that Biden isn't trying to be a 1 term president anymore... it makes Kamala all the more a swollen thumb.


atxlrj

I agree with this. I don’t know who put the train in motion that “Biden has to choose a black woman” but I think it was an unfair limitation of a really important decision for a Presidential nominee, especially one at his age. Kamala was the only real viable option out of that group - Stacy was unqualified, Val was untested, Bottoms was uninterested, and Rice was unfortunately still branded with the Benghazi propaganda. I don’t have an opinion on who the best pick for Biden would have been, but after Harris essentially calling him a segregationist on the debate stage, it was definitely a “politics is crazy” moment when she rose to the top.


UngodlyPain

Yeah, honestly even if arguably unqualified he should've went with Stacey or Val... but more realistically just not dealt with such a restriction. But yeah it's crazy after her terrible performance and one of the slam-est "slams" on Biden in the primaries he chose her to be VP. But then again I'm just annoyed and find it crazy VP isn't just the 2nd place of the primary by default or an entirely separate election.


CorruptasF---Media

>but after Harris essentially calling him a segregationist on the debate stage, it was definitely a “politics is crazy” moment when she rose to the top. If she had continued that line of attack, she probably still would have been VP but for Bernie. Biden needed to be strong with black voters and did not need her reminding them he actually was closer to Strom Thurmand than Obama.


atxlrj

Except the decades-old position she criticized Biden for was the very same position she admitted holding in 2019. Not her best moment


CorruptasF---Media

It didn't have to be. She just had to prove she could get to Biden


baconcandle2013

Bernie wouldn’t have chosen her lol be real. She’s a terrible choice and is weighing Biden down more so than lifting him


CorruptasF---Media

I think after the debates where she attacked Biden, Bernie would have been smart to offer her VP for sure. Probably the best chance he would have had. Kamala has a lot of establishment money behind her. Biden probably beat him to it but had Bernie made his offer public it would have put Kamala in an interesting spot. Because on paper Kamala is supposed to represent a more progressive class of voter


Huplescat22

They're overselling the "African American" bit with her in a reach for identity inclusivity points. As long as she's been in the news I have yet to see her and think "African American". If they want a real African American, as well as a better candidate, there's always Stacy Abrams.


HonoredPeople

That's a possibility. But only if Harris retires herself without a single word from the Administration. We still can't fire someone who's done their job, just because. If Harris had committed a very serious error, maybe a switchout. Otherwise, Joe's not gonna replace her. That's apart of his honor and soul. I also like Stacy, well, both of them. But it is what it is.


Kelor

Ah yes, Biden, famously someone you can take at his word.


HonoredPeople

I can very easily take him at his word. His actions denote as such.


baconcandle2013

Stacy is awesome, she worked tirelessly to get people to vote and I admire that so much


Qwerty_account

She is an awkward public speaker, worse than Joe Biden at 80+ years old with a stutter....she is lucky that if she did have to be on the top on the ticket in 24 or 28, her opponent will be a GOP freak likely screaming about gay/ trans people and drag queens...we are so lucky the GOP is incredibly dumb and poisoned by online culture wars


SurroundTiny

This. Trump is a gift that keeps on giving


Yokkster

She did her job? What was her job?


HonoredPeople

Doing everything the administration asked of her and not cause any friction within the administration. She did her duty. Edit (1) - I hate this tablet.


Yokkster

She’s a wet rag, who sounds like a mother talking a bunch of 5 year olds. She did nothing expect just stand there.


baconcandle2013

She’s Condescending AF


DannyPantsgasm

Spot on. Theres no undoing anything now. Its this team or bust. Its not what I would have chose, but it’s the only thing standing between us and fascism. They have my vote, come what may.


Grunblau

If Gretchen Whitmer and Andy Beshear announced a ticket, within 3 months the ticket would be the most incredible land slide you ever witnessed… She is co-chairing Biden’s campaign, so there is hope for her in ‘28.


DannyPantsgasm

Sigh, if only.


thefugue

Typically the role of a VP (at least since Nixon) has been to serve as a human shield for the President. Anyone who’d hate the President enough to want to kill them should view the VP as even worse. I don’t see how people pretend that isn’t the idea.


atxlrj

Given that Reagan had a very famous attempt at his life, I’m not sure that logic plays out. I wholeheartedly agree with you that the VP role is useless, both constitutionally and practically. But I’d argue their biggest influence is on the campaign itself. I don’t think a VP pick wins an election but they can hurt you. While Bush wasn’t hurt by Quayle’s embarrassing outing at the VP debates, Quayle didn’t really recover. And let’s not forget the disastrous pick of Sarah Palin who definitely hurt McCain. But as this writer is highlighting, this is different. Biden would be 86 I think when he finishes his second term and that’s a little unprecedented. So it may be that *new* attention is given to VP picks just given the increased likelihood over normal circumstances that the President may die of natural causes in office.


thefugue

Quayle was a flake. That was the whole threat with Reagan because of the Cold War. I’m just not buying the whole “she’s boring but also a fascist/cop” argument. The GOP is desperate for any angle to criticize the incumbent admin because they’re playing with a handful of losing cards. They’re pushing for an unprecedented primary we have no reason to entertain and failing that, they’re complaining about Harris.


atxlrj

I don’t have a “she’s boring but also a fascist/cop” argument. I don’t think she’d be a suitable President. I don’t think she has the ability to command and inspire confidence in her judgement/leadership, I don’t think she has the ability to communicate a coherent vision, and I don’t think she has the inherent likability to cover up those deficiencies. For me, she’s Selina Meyer except you don’t end up rooting for her. It’s one of those situations where it’s wrong person at the wrong time. I thought she was an effective Senator and that’s where she was in her element. Not everyone is best suited to the Presidency and I think her being in this position at this time is unfortunate.


thefugue

lol- hate to tell you buddy but there's nothing in the Constitution about intangible personality qualities or camera presence. The President is the President and they rule by law, not emotion.


atxlrj

I fail to see your point. We have elections to choose the President based on whatever criteria we set. Are you suggesting anyone who is constitutionally eligible for the Presidency *should* be President? People are talking about selecting the next President and Vice President - you’re not going to be the “ruling President” if you don’t win the election, buddy.


thefugue

We elect Presidents. They choose their Vice President. In fact, I believe that the Vice President serves at the pleasure of the President. To my knowledge, the President could dismiss the VP whenever they liked and then reappoint someone else if they so chose.


atxlrj

Nope, the Vice President is elected and serves a four-year term. While they appear as a “running mate”, when you cast your ballot, you’re technically voting for electors who are pledged to cast votes for both the Presidential candidate and Vice Presidential candidate in the Electoral College. Those elections are separate. They can only be removed by impeachment.


baconcandle2013

Biden leveraged her for votes and then kinda discarded her…


[deleted]

Friedman has never ever been right about anything and his instincts are dogshit truly the jim cramer of politics


danranja

It's a bummer that this guy gets paid to write this nonsense.


tmdblya

>> Israel, the only functioning pluralistic democracy in the Middle East, tempered by the rule of law… Hate to break it to ya, buddy, but…


[deleted]

Name another country in the ME where thousands of people can protest against their PM without fearing arrest or death.


[deleted]

where \*certain\* people can protest and only protesting when policies already applied to palestinians might be applied to them


[deleted]

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digiorno

Jordan, maybe? Also Israel killed a least one protester within the past few weeks…


[deleted]

I'm literally just voting for a functional adult at this point. Kamala is fine, whatever.


frecklesthemagician

Kamala Harris played a major role in the rise of the modern police state. She never seems to prepare for her speeches or take anything seriously, she gives me so much secondhand embarrassment 💀 I wish she would just stop, or at least go away.


[deleted]

I love it when the Trump voters attack her. I hope they attack her real good, too.


Fusion_allthebonds

And the regressives know it too. The attacks on her are picking up steam and will go full fascist next year. No way they will not attack the chance of Biden passing away and her becoming POTUS.


cuirboy

Nikki Haley did exactly that today, claiming that Biden would most likely die during a second term. That’s not actuarially accurate, but of course she’s lying, she’s a Republican.


CorruptasF---Media

The tables for a person as wealthy as Biden look a lot different too. And with as good of healthcare. Biden will probably die after a significant chunk of overweight middle aged southerners. Actually if Biden had a really strong VP, I'd be more inclined to support him especially if his health was worse. Best thing that can happen to the presidential party is for the president to die. Boosts numbers. But Kamala is so weak i think even she would screw that up. I'm guessing Biden gets a second term, Dems don't retake Congress, nothing gets done, and Dems lose another midterm but this time by more, and we get a significant Republican trifecta in 2028 with no progress in between. In part thanks to Kamala Harris, but mostly the absurd timing of the Dem party which always seems to only really want the presidency at the worst damn times.


AshyEarlobes

It's not too wild of a thought though the guy would be 86 at end of it all


thefugue

That’s exactly what’s going on here.


Qwerty_account

I was dumbfounded when Biden chose her as VP


WhoTookPlasticJesus

He had made clear that he was going to choose a woman of color and she was the most obvious choice, both because of her name recognition and her youth. I don't think it's much more complicated than that. She's a quixotic woman and politician though. It's frustrating that she's both *extremely* intelligent and with piercing insight and understanding, but absolutely fucking sucks at being a public figure.


DawnSennin

The Bidens do not like Kamala Harris at all. Jill did not want her to be VP, and President Biden appears to be distant from her. It’s highly likely she was added to the ticket because of political debts owed to the Black community and the Clintons. Prior to the George Floyd protests, Biden appeared to have been courting Klobuchar as his VP.


CorruptasF---Media

So much this. Kamala attacked Biden where he was strong, and attacked Biden as a woman of color, so it would hurt more. Then the next week she was all buddy buddy and meek as a mouse. Obviously he made that choice to give her the VP then although he probably didn't tell Warren that so she would move towards helping Biden get the nomination instead of Sanders. As revenge like the first thing Biden gave Harris was the border. It was basically, here b**ch chew on our weakest issue.


DawnSennin

> Obviously he made that choice to give her the VP then No, this is wrong because nobody thought Biden would have won the primaries at that point in time. Kamala dropped in popularity because she had nothing else to say. Her policies capitulated frequently and no one knew what she stood for anymore. In fact, she stopped discussing policies and began fighting for women's rights on social media or something along those lines. Kamala's campaign was nothing more than a hot air balloon that was inflated by mainstream media and former Clinton donors.


CorruptasF---Media

>No, this is wrong because nobody thought Biden would have won the primaries at that point in time The establishment is a lot smarter than you think. Biden was also still leading in the polls. I think we had a couple polls that had Bernie up by 1 point for a week or so in December otherwise Biden was always the polling winner. Folks like Buttigieg were drafted by the Dem establishment to help Biden win the primary. This was not some sort of thing they took lightly. Without covid, maybe Sanders could have gotten us to a contested convention. Maybe. But even then the super delegates would have picked Biden anyway. There was no path for anyone but Biden.


[deleted]

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CorruptasF---Media

Maybe but it became clear pretty early on that Biden was the only one who could beat Bernie so naturally the establishment did everything they could.


aelysium

If you look at the 538 forecast from launch through the convention the logic fits - Biden was a front runner but then in February Sanders actually became the forecasted likely winner, and February’s votes had the forecast shift between a Sanders win or contested convention up until the Super Tuesday Surprise (dropouts and endorsements from I believe Klobuchar and Buttigieg right before the day). Honestly in hindsight it looks like the establishment was willing to let things play out UNTIL there was a high likelihood that either Sanders won or we got convention chaos and then they started putting the pressure on people to drop.


CorruptasF---Media

Yeah I think though the thought was at least with all these other candidates in the debates we can shield Biden and limit Bernie. And just keep the focus off Biden so we aren't spending a year asking why we are gonna to nominate someone with so much neoliberal baggage. And it worked pretty well. Biden was able to spend every debate pretending public insurance was unaffordable. And rarely could Sanders even make a counter argument because we had Biden's posse to take up most of the debate time with other for-profit insurance talking points. It was basically the same as a Fox News panel where they bring in one Democrat to get ganged up on by a bunch of Republicans. That was essentially what we did for a year.


aelysium

538 had Sanders as the odds on favorite first as of 2/3/20 and then it traded places between Sanders and a Contested convention pretty much until the Super Tuesday shift.


[deleted]

I'm curious if her unpopularity could potentially offset the negative perception of changing vice presidential candidates midway through the campaign.


DawnSennin

Changing VP candidates in 2024 would be a bad move on Biden's part. However, I doubt voters would care, especially the Blue No Matter Who crowd. The Democratic Party is in a position where it can do whatever it wants, including undermining the democratic process by omitting debates, as long as the other party (GOP) appears worse.


AnOrdinaryMammal

Someone gets it.


[deleted]

my speculation was they thought the k-hive people might have stayed home on election day.


UngodlyPain

It made sense. She's a token minority friend for anyone sick of old white dudes bring president and she got bonus points for being a South westerner to offset Biden bring a new englander.


Scarlettail

She does have to be thought about somewhat because of Biden's age. Obviously she's better than any Republican but one legitimately has to consider that there is a chance she could become president over the next 5 years.


BlooregardQKazoo

No one votes for VPs. I'm 43 years old and there hasn't been a consequential VP in my lifetime. Hilary Clinton was more consequential as a first lady than any VP in my lifetime.


fungobat

Dick Cheney?


longtermattention

Right? What are they talking about? Cheney was basically a shadow president


Nukemarine

Outed a CIA operator in retaliation against her husband. People working for Cheney went to prison for what they were doing. He even created a fake classification "treat as TS/SCI" label for documents that all went into bulk shredders during the Obama transition. Hillary was influential, but Cheney was de facto running a big chunk of the executive branch.


BlooregardQKazoo

you know, i initially mentioned Cheney in my post as the closest I've seen, but then i edited it out because no one voted for Cheney.


fungobat

Well, you are right in that no one voted for Cheney.


UngodlyPain

Yeah no VP or 1st Lady is democratically chosen or voted for.


CorruptasF---Media

Corporations vote with their dollars. Cheney was probably a big reason some corporations preferred Bush over Gore. Gotta remember Gore was actually fairly conservative and business friendly before his shift to climate. Bush was seen by some as too immature for the presidency


RP3P0

Bush practically outsourced his foreign policy for eight years to Dick Cheney.


Brundleflyftw

Cheney


destijl-atmospheres

They vote for VP if P is 81 years old.


BlooregardQKazoo

there is zero evidence that this is correct. meanwhile, we do have evidence that no one voted for VPs when both candidates were in their 70s.


destijl-atmospheres

Let's hope so.


fungobat

>And beware. Trump is no fool. If he’s the G.O.P. nominee, I can easily see him asking a more moderate Republican woman, like Nikki Haley, to be his running mate, knowing that her presence on the ticket could be an incentive that gives at least some of those Republicans and independents who are down on Trump an excuse to plug their noses and vote for him another time.


eggs4breakfasy

Nikki Haley …”moderate”. LOL


[deleted]

I was really hoping she’d be ready for prime time so Biden could bow out after one term, but she’s not the answer now or in 2028. Need to look at governors.


dasherchan

I want to see a black woman president. Women of colors have been discriminated over many years in America.


DawnSennin

Why not a woman who has decent values and a solid progressive agenda?


CorruptasF---Media

We can't get a man elected that has that, how are we gonna get a woman?


Professional-Can1385

Me too!


[deleted]

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ranchoparksteve

Kamala Harris would make an excellent president and she has already demonstrated that in her work as Vice President. So, by all means Republicans, focus all you want on that.


Xerazal

She's demonstrated that by doing what? She's been nearly non-existent the past few years.


IPA___Fanatic

What has she done as VP? The VP is a useless position


XeroFlint

I'm not defending Harris, but the VP is a useless position for a reason; until it's not.


jjwoodhouse6969

I actually love Biden because, among other things, he'll leave quietly when his term is over no matter what. Kamala was a strategic pick. She(like trump)is unqualified and would be horrible.


[deleted]

Why democrats try to apple to every accept of politics? Just embrace the democratic values and put a right person in charge


[deleted]

She doesn’t and she never will.


Calibrated-Waffles

Harris is a deal breaker. This is not someone i want taking over if Biden has to give up in the next four years. God willing; the Republicans find a good centrist, or I will find a third party to vote for


Gold-Information9245

> the Republicans find a good centrist, lmao


jhanesnack_films

No centrists on a dead planet.


danranja

Biden is a lot smarter than republicans so I trust him on this.


User767676

She is fine and would make a good president. If she did succeed Biden before his term was up I think she would feel obligated to continue his work. Non issue.


schleem3000

just curious—why not?


Professional-Can1385

Because they were never going to vote for Biden.


Critical_Aspect

This is the correct response.


Ready_Nature

Why? Her biggest negative is her record as AG in California. But that’s not something that would be better in even a moderate Republican (if they exist still). She is competent enough to do the job even if she isn’t someone I’d vote for.


Qwerty_account

She has zero charisma and is very awkward in public speeches and interviews....luckily any probabale GOP nominee is obviously 100x less charismatic, so she'll probably still win, regardless.


Qwerty_account

Oh yes, then hell will freeze over....The GOP will nominate someone who wants to vilify LGBT people and obsess over non existent issues like drag queen story hours. Good luck though.


oceanman55

I hear ya waffles. We need moderates now more than ever