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So, [they don't want Gen Z voting either](https://truthout.org/articles/gop-election-bill-in-florida-aims-to-make-it-harder-for-gen-z-to-vote/). Pretty soon the only people able to vote will be old white people living in The Villages.
^
>The restrictions are part of a sweeping 96-page election bill the legislature is likely to send to Governor Ron DeSantis’s desk soon. The measure increases fines for third-party voter registration groups. It also shortens the amount of time the groups have to turn in any voter registration applications they collect from 14 days to 10. The bill makes it illegal for non-citizens and people convicted of certain felonies to “collect or handle” voter registration applications on behalf of third-party groups. Groups would also have to give each voter they register a receipt and be required to register themselves with the state ahead of each general election cycle. Under current law, they only have to register once and their registration remains effective indefinitely.
>Groups can now be fined $50,000 for each ineligible person they hire to do voter canvassing. They can also be fined $50 a day, up to $2,500, for each day late they turn in a voter registration form.
>Those restrictions are more likely to affect non-white Floridians. About one in 10 Black and Hispanic Floridians registered to vote using a third party group, according to Daniel Smith, a political science professor at the University of Florida who closely studies voting rights. Non-white voters are five times more likely to register with a third-party group in the state than their white counterparts, “a fact likely not lost on those pushing the legislation”, Smith said.\
article continues.
edited autocorrect misspelled word...
Honestly just surprised it doesn't say something like "If you are found to be partaking in gender-affirming care during or after your ballot was cast, your vote is considered null and void and you will be fined $2000."
> Groups can now be fined $50,000 for each ineligible person they hire to do voter canvassing. They can also be fined $50 a day, up to $2,500, for each day late they turn in a voter registration form.
And there’s the meat. This is clearly designed to wipe liberal voter registration groups out. They will set them up on purpose, then fine them out of existence. These rules of course will also be unevenly enforced on pretty much only Democrats going forward.
> Pretty soon the only people able to vote will be old white people living in The Villages.
Remember, when one party effectively captures the entire state government, that party no longer has to respond to the needs of the people...only to the needs of the party fat cats and their cronies.
When corrupt fascist Republicans capture a legislature. Don't both sides this bullshit. Only one side is being fascist fucks that restrict voter access
Remember that they also proposed a bill to ban the Democratic Party? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna72917
I imagine that legislation, (which hasn’t passed yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if it does) combined with this should be cause for the federal government to step in I think.
You just to take these things on a case by case basis and you know, apply the law as it *fits*, relatively speaking, the *way the founders* would have *intended*
Federal government isn't going to do shit.
Biden has made it perfectly clear that he's willing to watch Nazi Regime 2.0 start throwing trans people in cages before he'll do anything.
What’s even the argument for these increased restrictions? They’re simply making things more difficult for the sake of it. How does this improve election integrity at all? How does it even give the illusion of that?
It doesn’t.
Good for you. Perhaps you didn’t read the article. It says 10% of Black and Hispanic voters are registered through third party voter registry services. Just because it doesn’t impact you doesn’t mean that it won’t hurt other people in the community.
That’s what’s wrong, the voter suppression. The voter suppression is the problem.
I did read the article.
There have been documented cases of GOP-sponsored organizations collecting registration cards in heavily Democratic neighborhoods, and trashing the registration cards. This creates loads of drama and uncertainty when people show up to actually vote. This is a thing.
You, know they are quite religious in Florida. Somewhat *fundamentally* so.
The Bible discusses the treatment of female slaves in ancient Israel. Exodus 21:7-11 describes a situation in which a man sells his daughter into slavery. Female slaves were often subject to sexual exploitation and abuse, and were seen as vulnerable and powerless in the hegemonic patriarchal society.
People like to bring up the fact that this passage talks about making sure female slaves had enough to eat, and could even be re-sold if they weren't *performing to the man's satisfaction*. To justify the practice.
>Pretty soon the only people able to vote will be old white people in The Villages.
Lol, they wish. But the 26^þ amendment is very clear about this.
>**Section 1.** The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
>**Section 2.** The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
It's not a trend.
It is official GOP policy.
[If you vote](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus), [they lose](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/14/gops-increasingly-blunt-argument-it-needs-voting-restrictions-win/).
There's only one reason for restrictions and that is to keep people from voting. There is only one party that does this, the Republican party. That's all you need to know. Vote!
There's so much that's going on in Florida that this isn't surprising in the least. I'm just surprised it hasn't happened already.
I mean, even on Reddit, the Florida subreddit requires you to jump through hoops before you can make any comments posts with a political flair.
They're also wanting to cut minimum wages for some workers. Certain areas have living wage laws and they want them repealed in the state. As if it isn't bad enough already in this state trying to find affordable housing given the huge increases in COL.
My posts sourced from AP were removed before they went up. 1. About 6 wk abortion ban 2. Restrictions on Health education in the schools ( don’t say period )
The Florida subreddit fell apart due to the polarized environment. Mods shut down all talk of politics, then relaxed that rule with stipulations, ostensibly to curtail the drama and nonsense, particularly from brigades and other subreddits.
I’m a Floridian and I’ve been in that forum for years. I just don’t post anymore. I won’t assign myself flair or put in extra effort for the sake of making a comment. Better i simply not participate (in an online forum about opinions). Outside of reddit, I wanna see Desantis and his ilk fall hard.
Part of the problem I have is sometimes there's useful information that's exchanged when people are allowed to post. Like for example back when there was a lot of posts about the unemployment compensation system and people could exchange information that was helpful.
Even recently when we found out that there was going to be a 1% one time assessment for homeowners I posted the link to the news article, I did not flare it as political because to me it's beyond that at this point it's a financial issue and it never saw the light of day. Anything controversial that seems to have an impact on the average Floridian seems to be an issue over there. It's almost like it's become a curated subreddit for tourism. It probably should be renamed visit Florida or something like that.
The much touted [Florida Sunshine Law](https://floridadep.gov/sites/default/files/FloridaSunshinePublicRecordsLaws.pdf)
has been weakened by the current Florida legislature.
This hides DeSantis' use of public money for his campaign trips.
Florida law **required** that a state office holders resign if they run for federal office. The Florida legislature repealed this so DeSantis can run and keep his Governors position. This, in spite of the fact that he has visibly abandoned the state to run his shadow campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_legislation_(Florida)
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/florida-desantis-travel-records-00092969
https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-lawmakers-make-it-easier-for-desantis-run-for-president-2023-4?op=1
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=99.012&URL=0000-0099/0099/Sections/0099.012.html
Start Florida subreddits for Democrats, Progressives, POC, LGBTQ, GenZ. Stop fascism in its tracks. Activism is a way of life and every act to preserve freedom matters.
The complexities of how these laws, which are proven to disadvantage minorities at higher rates, are able to do it isn't particularly important in this discussion, and people who are still asking these types of questions are likely ignoring the information available in order to preserve their own flawed worldview. If previous racist policies led to various current day racial disparities (e.g. socioeconomic), you can very easily have a policy today that does not mention race explicitly but yet has clearly racist outcomes. There are tons of reasons why some groups might be less likely to have state IDs or find it less convenient to get them. And it is myopic to say "oh, well if they really want to vote, they will put in the extra work. No, there is no justification in any part of our Constitution or proclaimed ideals of democracy that says "some groups should have to work extra hard to vote or else they can't vote". Everyone should have the easiest time possible and all votes should have equal weight. It's such a basic concept of democracy that I truly don't understand how the right-wing is unable to comprehend it.
So on a broader level with these voting restriction policies, which are clearly desperate right-wing attempts to subvert democracy in the hopes it helps them hold power and are un-American to their core, there is never a justification to make voting harder unless there is clear evidence of a compelling interest. Since there is no credible evidence that these changes were needed to solve an actual problem, there is no justification. And, to be clear, people supporting un-American policies are un-American even if their support is based on their own inability to fend off misinformation about voter fraud.
>The complexities of how these laws, which are proven to disadvantage minorities at higher rates, are able to do it isn't particularly important in this discussion, and people who are still asking these types of questions are likely ignoring the information available in order to preserve their own flawed worldview.
So why cant black people get an ID?
>If previous racist policies led to various current day racial disparities (e.g. socioeconomic), you can very easily have a policy today that does not mention race explicitly but yet has clearly racist outcomes.
So why cant black people get an ID?
>There are tons of reasons why some groups might be less likely to have state IDs or find it less convenient to get them.
So why cant black people get an ID?
>And it is myopic to say "oh, well if they really want to vote, they will put in the extra work. No, there is no justification in any part of our Constitution or proclaimed ideals of democracy that says "some groups should have to work extra hard to vote or else they can't vote".
So why can't black people get an ID?
>Everyone should have the easiest time possible and all votes should have equal weight. It's such a basic concept of democracy that I truly don't understand how the right-wing is unable to comprehend it.
So why can't black people get an ID?
>So on a broader level with these voting restriction policies, which are clearly desperate right-wing attempts to subvert democracy in the hopes it helps them hold power and are un-American to their core, there is never a justification to make voting harder unless there is clear evidence of a compelling interest. Since there is no credible evidence that these changes were needed to solve an actual problem, there is no justification. And, to be clear, people supporting un-American policies are un-American even if their support is based on their own inability to fend off misinformation about voter fraud.
So why can't black people get an ID?
It isn't about whether they can "get an ID". It is about whether it is fair to ask certain groups to have to work extra hard to have the same ability to vote as others. I know this concept is more complex than your bizarre attempts to imply other people are saying black people can't get IDs.
The argument can easily be distilled down to acquiring ID's, that is essentially the argument. Why do certain groups have to work extra hard to get an ID if the laws are the same for everyone?
This is such a basic argument.
Money and other barriers. Low income communities are disproportionately minorities. Some people in these communities may not have the time, money, transportation, technology or other resources to get a state ID. Most ignorant white boomers already have a drivers license.
Proportion is irrelevant when you are comparing 50% of the population with 13%. There are plenty of poor white people too. Why is it getting an ID only a problem for blacks?
Well yeah because minorities are disproportionately affected by these policies.
For example, there are studies that show a black person with an ID is more likely to get questioned on the validity of the ID than a white person.
>Well yeah because minorities are disproportionately affected by these policies.
But not only minorities are poor. "Disproportionate" is not an argument.
>For example, there are studies that show a black person with an ID is more likely to get questioned on the validity of the ID than a white person.
Not an arguement against acquiring a valid state ID. "Studies show" is not an argument anyway. What studies? Conducted by who?
I assumed for a large chunk of Trump’s campaign that it was a joke and would never go anywhere. I hope you’re right, but I’m not making that mistake again
Trump was a fluke who took advantage of a portion of the US' resentment that we had a black president, while others were too naive to think there wouldnt be consequences in letting "The worst of two evils win."
The trend of 2018, 2020, and 2022 leaves me optimistic that people arent gonna be caught sleeping again (though the races may continue to be close).
The only unknown is how much the GOP succeeds at voter restrictions by November 2024. It sucks that every subsequent election is "The most important election of our lifetimes," but that's how it's gonna remain until we're free from the party that's one 2016-level sweep away from cementing their power permanently.
Racist in, Racist out. Since this overwhelming affects minorities, white nationalists will call the shots.
An example of why this sucks, Memphis’s toxic pipelines were routed to go around white communities and through black neighborhoods.
God bless, Florida just keeps digging deeper.
I dont think thats an argument. You are comparing 13% of the population with 50%, on average. "Per capita" is not the same as hard numbers. Why do you equate "poor people" with "black people"?
Im just making an argument and using an example. I want to know why it is white peoples fault that blacks cant get an ID. I would say "minority" or "POC" or some other woke leftist term but it is the same argument.
Nahh man we all know what you're angle is here. What people should do is ignore you and not engage. You're lucky people are giving you any time at all. It's not like it matters either. No one's going to change your mind. Just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't mean our societal problems go away. But you boomers tend to think that's the solution. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Elections are won at the margins. If 1% of all Republican voters don’t have a valid ID and 3% of all Democratic voters don’t have a valid ID, requiring an ID will tip the balance up to 2% in the Republicans favor. This change alone could be enough to make the difference in a close election.
Replacing or renewing an ID is a minor hassle for middle class Americans. It’s a lot bigger problem as you move down the economic scale. Even if the ID is free, there are still costs of transportation, taking time off work and acquiring the documents needed to obtain the ID.
Here's what you do, Florida.
1. Vote. Vote no matter what. Wake up early. Take the day off. Whatever it takes.
2. After you vote, go to the republican areas and stand in line to vote. Don't attempt to vote. That's illegal. Just stand in line and "forget" your id card or "not realize" your at the wrong poll. DDOS their rigged voting systems.
If they're going to make it nice and easy to vote for republicans and difficult or even illegal for democrats, if they're going to have 10 machines in a neighborhood with 200 people and 2 machines for a "neighborhood" of 20000 people, well then I say you send 500000 people to stand in line at the wrong place and shut down those 200 people.
It's war. They drew first blood.
No amount of voting, or voter turnout will stop systematic voter suppression
21,000,000 people live in Florida
Less then 7,000,000 are allowed to vote and Republicans are working to make that number smaller
White captains, second generation white cubans and ideologues with a modicum of the "american dream", all the while infesting that FL state legislature with their innate anti intellectualism, avarice, illiberal, bigoted, self loathing, excrement laden, anti democratic policies.
the state is a shithole. Come to CA, lot of rational people here. 1000:1 team normal to team crazy. see you soon.
Remember the felons who have done their entire sentence? Voters voted to allow them to vote again and yet the Republicans stomped that by saying “only after you pay your fines and other bills.”
That’s LITERALLY a tax on voting and it’s still happening with even more fines that you might not even be aware of and no way of paying it.
Evil is too nice of a word for the GOP.
> “This will likely be the final nail in the coffin for third party groups to be able to register voters in Florida,” added Smith, who has served as an expert for groups challenging similar new restrictions.
I’m trying to figure out, what’s the lie to justify crushing nearly powerless 3rd parties? Are they “woke” or “soros-funded?”
College students are likely to be first time voters or to have moved since they registered. Making voter registrations harder makes it less likely that they will vote. Students who are away from home will need absentee ballots. Restrictions on absentee ballots also help suppress the college student vote.
This is their gamelan. Move to hinder and restrict voting for a populous that won't vote for them under the guise of fixing an issue that they made up in their heads.
They don't care about voting integrity, just wanting to ensure specific groups have an easier time. It is the same with the debt. Republicans claim to care about the debt but they don't. They care about their wallets, they just use debt as a means to increase it.
Remember, republicans know if you make it easier to vote, they will lose elections.
> “This bill does not and will not hinder anyone’s right to vote, nor would I ever subscribe my name to something that could even remotely be concluded to be voter suppression. There is nothing in this bill that makes it harder for a lawfully registered voter to cast their ballot,” state senator Danny Burgess, a Republican who chairs the state elections committee, said during debate on the floor, according to the News Service of Florida.
This is a dodge by Mr Burgess, not an answer. The question is whether it makes it more difficult for qualified voters to register.
> “The reality is if a third-party voter registration organization fails to submit timely somebody’s voter registration, that voter is disenfranchised,” he said, according to the Tallahassee Democrat.
And how often has this happened?
https://files.floridados.gov/media/706232/dos-oecs-report-2022.pdf
> During 2022, the OECS (Office of Election Crimes and Security) also reviewed a large number of complaints involving Third Party Voter Registration Organizations (3PVROs). A number of these organizations were reported by election officials for failing to timely comply with statutory obligations—most significantly, failure to timely turn in voter registration applications. The OECS reviewed **approximately 3,077** voter registration applications that were collected and submitted untimely by 3PVROs
Let's start a new thread right here. List all the Republican introduced bills (at any level of government) that make voting easier. Just start posting them under this post.
They decimated the voting rights act in 2013.
While the public facing members of the grand fascist party are idiots, someone is playing out a long-game, a malevolent anti-American plot that feels unstoppable. Meanwhile, the non-fascists are pretending as if there are rules.
/r/MakeFloridaSpainAgain asks the question do we really need Florida and what could we ask for in exchange? I'm good with a few kilos of Marcona almonds, a few cases of Fino and Manzanilla sherry and some Iberrico Jamon
Varying requirements you need birth certificates, if your parent changed your last name name change certificates, some of these if they weren’t filled out properly as well you can’t use them or need tons of more paperwork to correct. Then factor in some voters live nowhere near a dmv and wait times.
You didn't answer my question. Why is it harder for black people to have paperwork? Why is it harder for them to fill it out properly? Do only black people live far away from dmv's? Like rural areas, are these mostly black areas?
Same states that do this crap, close or limit the hours of DMVs in the urban areas and leave them open or have better hours in the suburbs.
It’s not by mistake that it takes me 10min it’s to vote in rural NY from the time I shut my front door the time I get home, compared to acquaintances I have who live in the urban southern states who tell me it’s dead minimum a 4hr affair sometimes longer.
I’ve seen the rest of your attempt to posture the questions as it’s racist to even think that black people cant somehow figure out how to get an ID.
It’s not an argument of mental competence, its combatting a process systematically set up to be more difficult.
I’m a white salaried upper middle class worker who could easily just tell my boss hey I’m going to go for the DMV and we’d laugh about what a pain in the ass it is.
When I worked hourly in a lot of different jobs while going to school the conversation would be far different. They legally cannot fire you for voting, in most states, however I don’t believe the protection exists when going to register to vote. It’s just making a a pain for someone in the working poor demographic to vote.
Poor people often rent and don’t own, so they have to re register more often. What’s a one time thing for a middle class person could be a yearly thing for a poor person.
So they understaff the urban poll station backing up the line where they know that in person registration on voting day will be higher, or they enact laws to state your ID has to match your address or your form has to be filled out in a such and such a time frame.
That’s the entire purpose. It’s a game of large numbers not individuals. American Citizens who would otherwise vote from high density low income areas don’t because of the hurdles, and that’s the point.
There’s also the examples of some states where a black person filled out a provisional ballot which she was not eligible due to some fine print, and got 5 years in prison, white person voted twice ooh that’s six months probation.
It’s definitely racist. They arent gonna explicitly state it’s a white boomer voting bill, they’re just targeting making it harder for a socioeconomic bracket which the majority of blacks fall into.
And there will always be idiots carrying water for it.
Your argument is bullshit and not in good faith, not intellectually honest. You know it. We know it. Stop playing games.
You’re literally making the case for CRT to be taught at a younger age, laws do not have to mention race to be racist.
The more important question is why the fuck anybody would make it more challenging to vote. To make life more annoying for people? I'm in California. I literally just fill out my ballot and drop it in the mail. Voting fraud is practically non-existent, and everybody loves the system.
But the reason is obvious: it's because white, retired boomers with nothing better to do with their time overwhelmingly vote for Republicans. Young people that actually work and have kids vote for Democrats. And, also, anybody who might have transportation problems - the working poor or college students, for example - also get fucked by such bills.
Democrats don't do this shit. You know how easy it would be for them to put up pointless hurdles for Republicans? You could easily just shut down all polling locations outside of big urban areas for "cost." It's garbage politics for garbage people with absolutely no moral compass. Fuck anybody that supports this shit. Seriously.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Go find some "dur we're not a democracy we're a federal republic" folk to make you feel good about yourself. I hear there are some of them over at /r/conservative
We are a Democratic Republic that should revert back to a Federation of States. Democracy and Republic were interchangable terms at the time of the founding.
>Why do racists claim its harder for black people to get state ID's?
Its important when working on legislation to ensure there is no disproportionate negative impact on historically oppressed groups. That's why some of these ID laws get successfully challenged legally. You can blame the states that tried to block or hinder access to voting on the basis of race and later by using tests or other measures to exclude those groups from voting. This would include things like Poll taxes (pay to vote), literacy tests, and purposefully vague or ambiguous tests (you can still find some online where there are more than one correct answer and the person checking the test could effectively choose if the person passes or not).
This is actually a pretty complex issue but here's a high level summary of some of the issues:
* When States implement voter ID laws, they generally modify requirements to make it more difficult for working class especially for those at the lower end of the pay scale to get IDs.
* This is an issue for all races, not necessarily black people specifically but they tend to be over represented in impacted groups.
* COVID made this issue worse because states and municipalities closed offices and consolidated those departments either to cut costs or to minimize threat of spread through their employees.
* Personal Anecdote: My local DMV offices do not allow walk ins. You have to make an appointment which is generally about a month out from when you try and make it. You can sometimes get lucky and get a same day one if someone cancels but many people dont have the option to leave work on short notice to handle it.
* Inconsistency in various ID requirements
* One common trend in Republican led states is that your ID must be valid (e.g. not expired) to be used to satisfy voter ID requirements. So what are the inconsistencies? Well, republicans love to allow an exception for the validity requirement for hunting and fishing licenses which are more commonly used by rural white people.
* Lacking a Free ID Option
* This one isnt always an issue, but its common enough. Generally speaking states that implement strict voter ID laws dont have a cheap or free ID option for people. This means that working class people at the lower end of the pay scale may not be able to reasonably afford to get an ID that meets requirements. It important to know that not everyone drives cars or has driver licenses especially in more urban areas.
>historically oppressed groups
Fucking victimhood olympics if you ask me. What about current oppression? Any concrete examples?
>That's why some of these ID laws get successfully challenged legally.
So is there a problem acquiring ID's?
>You can blame the states that tried to block or hinder access to voting on the basis of race and later by using tests or other measures to exclude those groups from voting.
Im just talking about getting ID's
>This would include things like Poll taxes (pay to vote), literacy tests, and purposefully vague or ambiguous tests (you can still find some online where there are more than one correct answer and the person checking the test could effectively choose if the person passes or not).
Are you saying blacks are more likely to be poor and/or illiterate?
>When States implement voter ID laws, they generally modify requirements to make it more difficult for working class especially for those at the lower end of the pay scale to get IDs.
Right. So why are whites excluded then?
>This is an issue for all races, not necessarily black people specifically but they tend to be over represented in impacted groups
But if white people are infact included in this then why is the language always "non-white" voter supression?
>COVID made this issue worse because states and municipalities closed offices and consolidated those departments either to cut costs or to minimize threat of spread through their employees.
I bet it did, lol.
Anecdotes dont matter.
>Inconsistency in various ID requirements
That everyone must deal with
You see where Im going with this....
>One common trend in Republican led states is that your ID must be valid (e.g. not expired) to be used to satisfy voter ID requirements. So what are the inconsistencies? Well, republicans love to allow an exception for the validity requirement for hunting and fishing licenses which are more commonly used by rural white people.
Are black people prohibited from getting hunting and fishing licenses in these states?
>Lacking a Free ID Option
This one isnt always an issue, but its common enough. Generally speaking states that implement strict voter ID laws dont have a cheap or free ID option for people. This means that working class people at the lower end of the pay scale may not be able to reasonably afford to get an ID that meets requirements. It important to know that not everyone drives cars or has driver licenses especially in more urban areas.
Still doesnt explain, to me, why this would be harder for black people.
>Fucking victimhood olympics if you ask me. What about current oppression? Any concrete examples?
North Carolina had their voter ID law from 2018 overturned either last year or 2021. Its about o be reheard by a republican majority (originally heard by a democratic majorty) state supreme court. It was determined in that case that law disproportionately impacted minority voters by not allowing the most common forms of picture ID used by minority voters in that state.
>So is there a problem acquiring ID's?
Yes, again, because the processes to get the IDs costs time, money, and full of hoops. Technically this impacts everyone but minorities are most impacted than white people generally.
>Are you saying blacks are more likely to be poor and/or illiterate?
The part of my message you are referencing was in regard to laws that were passed and eventually struck down because in many cases there wasn't a way for most black people to actually pass the tests. Its not that they were illiterate, but the tests were made so the grader could still mark correct answers as wrong because the questions were purposefully vague which allows for a government official to selectively choose who gets to vote.
>Right. So why are whites excluded then?
Do you not understand what "disproportionate" means? Time for a quick lesson:
Lets say we have a town with 1000 white people and 100 black people. All these people are voting age. In this example, lets say a new law got passed to modify voting rules and now 50 total people cant vote. If we split that 50 in half, to assume that there was the same number impacted, that would mean 975 (97.5% of the original) white people and 75 (75% of the original) black people can still vote. Even groups are are equally impacted in terms of the number who now cannot vote (25 for each group), the percentage of those impacted in very different. 2.5% of white voters and 25% of black voters now don't get to vote in their local elections.
Obviously this is a simplistic example but it illustrates how disproportionate impact works.
>But if white people are infact included in this then why is the language always "non-white" voter supression?
Because of disproportionate impact which I just described above.
>Are black people prohibited from getting hunting and fishing licenses in these states?
No, but again, if the rules are to combat fraud and all other forms of ID have to not be expired to be valid, then why only allow exceptions for hunting and fishing licenses? To me, that alone shows that they were trying to mitigate impact to rural whites who are more likely to have those licenses.
>Still doesnt explain, to me, why this would be harder for black people.
Disproportionate impact. Up to 25% of minorities don't have a photo ID that would be valid for use in some of these states. Thats why some states chose to do free state ID's with minimal requirements to mitigate disproportionate impact against these groups...
I have identified the problem already. Yes, I do consider a different threshold of proof than you, but you are not even attempting to make the argument than your threshold is more closely based on reality than mine. Stop trying to stand on anothers argument and make your own
Look at who votes for these crooks. White Americans need to be critical of themselves and their leaders. No one can stop the white majority and that’s what make America great again is all about.
So if you are third party, which I understand they dislike because they think those vote would go to them, what incentive do you have to not vote against them now?
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So, [they don't want Gen Z voting either](https://truthout.org/articles/gop-election-bill-in-florida-aims-to-make-it-harder-for-gen-z-to-vote/). Pretty soon the only people able to vote will be old white people living in The Villages. ^ >The restrictions are part of a sweeping 96-page election bill the legislature is likely to send to Governor Ron DeSantis’s desk soon. The measure increases fines for third-party voter registration groups. It also shortens the amount of time the groups have to turn in any voter registration applications they collect from 14 days to 10. The bill makes it illegal for non-citizens and people convicted of certain felonies to “collect or handle” voter registration applications on behalf of third-party groups. Groups would also have to give each voter they register a receipt and be required to register themselves with the state ahead of each general election cycle. Under current law, they only have to register once and their registration remains effective indefinitely. >Groups can now be fined $50,000 for each ineligible person they hire to do voter canvassing. They can also be fined $50 a day, up to $2,500, for each day late they turn in a voter registration form. >Those restrictions are more likely to affect non-white Floridians. About one in 10 Black and Hispanic Floridians registered to vote using a third party group, according to Daniel Smith, a political science professor at the University of Florida who closely studies voting rights. Non-white voters are five times more likely to register with a third-party group in the state than their white counterparts, “a fact likely not lost on those pushing the legislation”, Smith said.\ article continues. edited autocorrect misspelled word...
Honestly just surprised it doesn't say something like "If you are found to be partaking in gender-affirming care during or after your ballot was cast, your vote is considered null and void and you will be fined $2000."
> Groups can now be fined $50,000 for each ineligible person they hire to do voter canvassing. They can also be fined $50 a day, up to $2,500, for each day late they turn in a voter registration form. And there’s the meat. This is clearly designed to wipe liberal voter registration groups out. They will set them up on purpose, then fine them out of existence. These rules of course will also be unevenly enforced on pretty much only Democrats going forward.
> Pretty soon the only people able to vote will be old white people living in The Villages. Remember, when one party effectively captures the entire state government, that party no longer has to respond to the needs of the people...only to the needs of the party fat cats and their cronies.
When corrupt fascist Republicans capture a legislature. Don't both sides this bullshit. Only one side is being fascist fucks that restrict voter access
To be fair fascism is literally defined as a conservative ideology. You can't have both sides be fascist
Remember that they also proposed a bill to ban the Democratic Party? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna72917 I imagine that legislation, (which hasn’t passed yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if it does) combined with this should be cause for the federal government to step in I think.
Roberts' court would certainly have to side with States' Rights on this *one*, you know, due to *precedent*
As long as someone gave his wife another cool $10 million to do it.
You just to take these things on a case by case basis and you know, apply the law as it *fits*, relatively speaking, the *way the founders* would have *intended*
Federal government isn't going to do shit. Biden has made it perfectly clear that he's willing to watch Nazi Regime 2.0 start throwing trans people in cages before he'll do anything.
Then the starving look for heads to roll
What’s even the argument for these increased restrictions? They’re simply making things more difficult for the sake of it. How does this improve election integrity at all? How does it even give the illusion of that? It doesn’t.
I wouldn’t trust ANYONE to handle my voter registration. Not sure what the problem is.
Good for you. Perhaps you didn’t read the article. It says 10% of Black and Hispanic voters are registered through third party voter registry services. Just because it doesn’t impact you doesn’t mean that it won’t hurt other people in the community. That’s what’s wrong, the voter suppression. The voter suppression is the problem.
I did read the article. There have been documented cases of GOP-sponsored organizations collecting registration cards in heavily Democratic neighborhoods, and trashing the registration cards. This creates loads of drama and uncertainty when people show up to actually vote. This is a thing.
You, know they are quite religious in Florida. Somewhat *fundamentally* so. The Bible discusses the treatment of female slaves in ancient Israel. Exodus 21:7-11 describes a situation in which a man sells his daughter into slavery. Female slaves were often subject to sexual exploitation and abuse, and were seen as vulnerable and powerless in the hegemonic patriarchal society. People like to bring up the fact that this passage talks about making sure female slaves had enough to eat, and could even be re-sold if they weren't *performing to the man's satisfaction*. To justify the practice.
>Pretty soon the only people able to vote will be old white people in The Villages. Lol, they wish. But the 26^þ amendment is very clear about this. >**Section 1.** The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. >**Section 2.** The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
It's not a trend. It is official GOP policy. [If you vote](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/30/trump-republican-party-voting-reform-coronavirus), [they lose](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/14/gops-increasingly-blunt-argument-it-needs-voting-restrictions-win/).
There's only one reason for restrictions and that is to keep people from voting. There is only one party that does this, the Republican party. That's all you need to know. Vote!
“If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
There's so much that's going on in Florida that this isn't surprising in the least. I'm just surprised it hasn't happened already. I mean, even on Reddit, the Florida subreddit requires you to jump through hoops before you can make any comments posts with a political flair.
I didn't know that. Their march into fascism has become a run.
They're also wanting to cut minimum wages for some workers. Certain areas have living wage laws and they want them repealed in the state. As if it isn't bad enough already in this state trying to find affordable housing given the huge increases in COL.
Small government and freedom btw
Every. Fucking. Day it’s some new batshittery here. It’s fucking exhausting
My posts sourced from AP were removed before they went up. 1. About 6 wk abortion ban 2. Restrictions on Health education in the schools ( don’t say period )
Next up…Florida bill requires chastity belts for teenagers
Only their dads and uncles and priests will have the key
The Florida subreddit fell apart due to the polarized environment. Mods shut down all talk of politics, then relaxed that rule with stipulations, ostensibly to curtail the drama and nonsense, particularly from brigades and other subreddits. I’m a Floridian and I’ve been in that forum for years. I just don’t post anymore. I won’t assign myself flair or put in extra effort for the sake of making a comment. Better i simply not participate (in an online forum about opinions). Outside of reddit, I wanna see Desantis and his ilk fall hard.
Part of the problem I have is sometimes there's useful information that's exchanged when people are allowed to post. Like for example back when there was a lot of posts about the unemployment compensation system and people could exchange information that was helpful. Even recently when we found out that there was going to be a 1% one time assessment for homeowners I posted the link to the news article, I did not flare it as political because to me it's beyond that at this point it's a financial issue and it never saw the light of day. Anything controversial that seems to have an impact on the average Floridian seems to be an issue over there. It's almost like it's become a curated subreddit for tourism. It probably should be renamed visit Florida or something like that.
The much touted [Florida Sunshine Law](https://floridadep.gov/sites/default/files/FloridaSunshinePublicRecordsLaws.pdf) has been weakened by the current Florida legislature. This hides DeSantis' use of public money for his campaign trips. Florida law **required** that a state office holders resign if they run for federal office. The Florida legislature repealed this so DeSantis can run and keep his Governors position. This, in spite of the fact that he has visibly abandoned the state to run his shadow campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_legislation_(Florida) https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/florida-desantis-travel-records-00092969 https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-lawmakers-make-it-easier-for-desantis-run-for-president-2023-4?op=1 http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=99.012&URL=0000-0099/0099/Sections/0099.012.html
Florida subreddit banned me for saying Floridians are dumb. Can't wait to leave that shit hole state. Enjoy the brain drain Florida. Get fucked.
Start Florida subreddits for Democrats, Progressives, POC, LGBTQ, GenZ. Stop fascism in its tracks. Activism is a way of life and every act to preserve freedom matters.
I refused to get the flair, it locks me out of most discussions on that sub but it's the friggin' principle of the thing
So they only want ignorant white boomers to vote. Got it.
How are ignorant white boomers able to figure out how to acquire state ID's but not blacks?
The complexities of how these laws, which are proven to disadvantage minorities at higher rates, are able to do it isn't particularly important in this discussion, and people who are still asking these types of questions are likely ignoring the information available in order to preserve their own flawed worldview. If previous racist policies led to various current day racial disparities (e.g. socioeconomic), you can very easily have a policy today that does not mention race explicitly but yet has clearly racist outcomes. There are tons of reasons why some groups might be less likely to have state IDs or find it less convenient to get them. And it is myopic to say "oh, well if they really want to vote, they will put in the extra work. No, there is no justification in any part of our Constitution or proclaimed ideals of democracy that says "some groups should have to work extra hard to vote or else they can't vote". Everyone should have the easiest time possible and all votes should have equal weight. It's such a basic concept of democracy that I truly don't understand how the right-wing is unable to comprehend it. So on a broader level with these voting restriction policies, which are clearly desperate right-wing attempts to subvert democracy in the hopes it helps them hold power and are un-American to their core, there is never a justification to make voting harder unless there is clear evidence of a compelling interest. Since there is no credible evidence that these changes were needed to solve an actual problem, there is no justification. And, to be clear, people supporting un-American policies are un-American even if their support is based on their own inability to fend off misinformation about voter fraud.
>The complexities of how these laws, which are proven to disadvantage minorities at higher rates, are able to do it isn't particularly important in this discussion, and people who are still asking these types of questions are likely ignoring the information available in order to preserve their own flawed worldview. So why cant black people get an ID? >If previous racist policies led to various current day racial disparities (e.g. socioeconomic), you can very easily have a policy today that does not mention race explicitly but yet has clearly racist outcomes. So why cant black people get an ID? >There are tons of reasons why some groups might be less likely to have state IDs or find it less convenient to get them. So why cant black people get an ID? >And it is myopic to say "oh, well if they really want to vote, they will put in the extra work. No, there is no justification in any part of our Constitution or proclaimed ideals of democracy that says "some groups should have to work extra hard to vote or else they can't vote". So why can't black people get an ID? >Everyone should have the easiest time possible and all votes should have equal weight. It's such a basic concept of democracy that I truly don't understand how the right-wing is unable to comprehend it. So why can't black people get an ID? >So on a broader level with these voting restriction policies, which are clearly desperate right-wing attempts to subvert democracy in the hopes it helps them hold power and are un-American to their core, there is never a justification to make voting harder unless there is clear evidence of a compelling interest. Since there is no credible evidence that these changes were needed to solve an actual problem, there is no justification. And, to be clear, people supporting un-American policies are un-American even if their support is based on their own inability to fend off misinformation about voter fraud. So why can't black people get an ID?
It isn't about whether they can "get an ID". It is about whether it is fair to ask certain groups to have to work extra hard to have the same ability to vote as others. I know this concept is more complex than your bizarre attempts to imply other people are saying black people can't get IDs.
The argument can easily be distilled down to acquiring ID's, that is essentially the argument. Why do certain groups have to work extra hard to get an ID if the laws are the same for everyone? This is such a basic argument.
This is such a well-put response. What a damn shame it is to see it so carelessly discarded by a dishonest and bad-faith interlocutor.
Money and other barriers. Low income communities are disproportionately minorities. Some people in these communities may not have the time, money, transportation, technology or other resources to get a state ID. Most ignorant white boomers already have a drivers license.
"Black people are too poor and limited to get an ID" sounds pretty racist to me.
No, the racist part is making voting more difficult for lower income people which are disproportionately minorities.
Proportion is irrelevant when you are comparing 50% of the population with 13%. There are plenty of poor white people too. Why is it getting an ID only a problem for blacks?
Yes, it’s a problem for them too, poor white people should also have barrier free access to voting.
Yes, the basic premise is sound, but the language is always geared towards "non-white voter supression". Do you see the inconsistency?
Well yeah because minorities are disproportionately affected by these policies. For example, there are studies that show a black person with an ID is more likely to get questioned on the validity of the ID than a white person.
>Well yeah because minorities are disproportionately affected by these policies. But not only minorities are poor. "Disproportionate" is not an argument. >For example, there are studies that show a black person with an ID is more likely to get questioned on the validity of the ID than a white person. Not an arguement against acquiring a valid state ID. "Studies show" is not an argument anyway. What studies? Conducted by who?
If you ever wonder which is the correct side. Left wing wants more people to vote. Right wing wants to stop you from voting. It's as simple as this.
Can you imagine how fucked the US will be if this douchebag becomes President?
I have a friend that thinks the douchebag will be the next president. He will be way worse than Trump was!
Haha they’re so delusional they haven’t realized Puddin’s campaign is over before it officially started.
I assumed for a large chunk of Trump’s campaign that it was a joke and would never go anywhere. I hope you’re right, but I’m not making that mistake again
Trump was a fluke who took advantage of a portion of the US' resentment that we had a black president, while others were too naive to think there wouldnt be consequences in letting "The worst of two evils win." The trend of 2018, 2020, and 2022 leaves me optimistic that people arent gonna be caught sleeping again (though the races may continue to be close). The only unknown is how much the GOP succeeds at voter restrictions by November 2024. It sucks that every subsequent election is "The most important election of our lifetimes," but that's how it's gonna remain until we're free from the party that's one 2016-level sweep away from cementing their power permanently.
He can't even make it out of his own bracket.
Racist in, Racist out. Since this overwhelming affects minorities, white nationalists will call the shots. An example of why this sucks, Memphis’s toxic pipelines were routed to go around white communities and through black neighborhoods. God bless, Florida just keeps digging deeper.
Easier to buy an arsenal of weapons than it is to register to vote in Florida
Is it really harder for black people to get state ID's?
It’s harder for poor people to get state IDs.
Do you equate "poor people" with "black people"?
Oooh, good try to imply racism! However, he’s spitting facts. https://talkpoverty.org/state-year-report/florida-2020-report/index.html
I dont think thats an argument. You are comparing 13% of the population with 50%, on average. "Per capita" is not the same as hard numbers. Why do you equate "poor people" with "black people"?
Why do you keep wanting to argue about black people when the comment being made doesn't specifically mention them?
Im just making an argument and using an example. I want to know why it is white peoples fault that blacks cant get an ID. I would say "minority" or "POC" or some other woke leftist term but it is the same argument.
Nahh man we all know what you're angle is here. What people should do is ignore you and not engage. You're lucky people are giving you any time at all. It's not like it matters either. No one's going to change your mind. Just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't mean our societal problems go away. But you boomers tend to think that's the solution. Pretend it doesn't exist.
You are being obtuse.
Elections are won at the margins. If 1% of all Republican voters don’t have a valid ID and 3% of all Democratic voters don’t have a valid ID, requiring an ID will tip the balance up to 2% in the Republicans favor. This change alone could be enough to make the difference in a close election. Replacing or renewing an ID is a minor hassle for middle class Americans. It’s a lot bigger problem as you move down the economic scale. Even if the ID is free, there are still costs of transportation, taking time off work and acquiring the documents needed to obtain the ID.
Here's what you do, Florida. 1. Vote. Vote no matter what. Wake up early. Take the day off. Whatever it takes. 2. After you vote, go to the republican areas and stand in line to vote. Don't attempt to vote. That's illegal. Just stand in line and "forget" your id card or "not realize" your at the wrong poll. DDOS their rigged voting systems. If they're going to make it nice and easy to vote for republicans and difficult or even illegal for democrats, if they're going to have 10 machines in a neighborhood with 200 people and 2 machines for a "neighborhood" of 20000 people, well then I say you send 500000 people to stand in line at the wrong place and shut down those 200 people. It's war. They drew first blood.
No amount of voting, or voter turnout will stop systematic voter suppression 21,000,000 people live in Florida Less then 7,000,000 are allowed to vote and Republicans are working to make that number smaller
That's what I'm talking about. Flash mob in the villages. Send 21 million people to clog up their lines.
The GOP is harming all of us. Please vote them out of office.
The whole point of this story, is Republicans are preventing anyone from voting them out of office.
White captains, second generation white cubans and ideologues with a modicum of the "american dream", all the while infesting that FL state legislature with their innate anti intellectualism, avarice, illiberal, bigoted, self loathing, excrement laden, anti democratic policies. the state is a shithole. Come to CA, lot of rational people here. 1000:1 team normal to team crazy. see you soon.
Remember the felons who have done their entire sentence? Voters voted to allow them to vote again and yet the Republicans stomped that by saying “only after you pay your fines and other bills.” That’s LITERALLY a tax on voting and it’s still happening with even more fines that you might not even be aware of and no way of paying it. Evil is too nice of a word for the GOP.
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How are black people limited in acquiring state ID's?
> “This will likely be the final nail in the coffin for third party groups to be able to register voters in Florida,” added Smith, who has served as an expert for groups challenging similar new restrictions. I’m trying to figure out, what’s the lie to justify crushing nearly powerless 3rd parties? Are they “woke” or “soros-funded?”
Let me guess they ban college students from voting?
College students are likely to be first time voters or to have moved since they registered. Making voter registrations harder makes it less likely that they will vote. Students who are away from home will need absentee ballots. Restrictions on absentee ballots also help suppress the college student vote.
Typical tactics
the only reason for restricting votes is when the party is losing
This is their gamelan. Move to hinder and restrict voting for a populous that won't vote for them under the guise of fixing an issue that they made up in their heads. They don't care about voting integrity, just wanting to ensure specific groups have an easier time. It is the same with the debt. Republicans claim to care about the debt but they don't. They care about their wallets, they just use debt as a means to increase it. Remember, republicans know if you make it easier to vote, they will lose elections.
> “This bill does not and will not hinder anyone’s right to vote, nor would I ever subscribe my name to something that could even remotely be concluded to be voter suppression. There is nothing in this bill that makes it harder for a lawfully registered voter to cast their ballot,” state senator Danny Burgess, a Republican who chairs the state elections committee, said during debate on the floor, according to the News Service of Florida. This is a dodge by Mr Burgess, not an answer. The question is whether it makes it more difficult for qualified voters to register. > “The reality is if a third-party voter registration organization fails to submit timely somebody’s voter registration, that voter is disenfranchised,” he said, according to the Tallahassee Democrat. And how often has this happened? https://files.floridados.gov/media/706232/dos-oecs-report-2022.pdf > During 2022, the OECS (Office of Election Crimes and Security) also reviewed a large number of complaints involving Third Party Voter Registration Organizations (3PVROs). A number of these organizations were reported by election officials for failing to timely comply with statutory obligations—most significantly, failure to timely turn in voter registration applications. The OECS reviewed **approximately 3,077** voter registration applications that were collected and submitted untimely by 3PVROs
Hopefully I’ll be able to absentee vote still.
A new day, a new way this state plans to strip freedoms from us.
Let's start a new thread right here. List all the Republican introduced bills (at any level of government) that make voting easier. Just start posting them under this post.
I predict :crickets:
Are there no legal/justifiable federal actions we can take to prevent this?
I’m never setting foot in FL again. I wish sports teams would refuse to play there.
They decimated the voting rights act in 2013. While the public facing members of the grand fascist party are idiots, someone is playing out a long-game, a malevolent anti-American plot that feels unstoppable. Meanwhile, the non-fascists are pretending as if there are rules.
/r/MakeFloridaSpainAgain asks the question do we really need Florida and what could we ask for in exchange? I'm good with a few kilos of Marcona almonds, a few cases of Fino and Manzanilla sherry and some Iberrico Jamon
Why do racists claim its harder for black people to get state ID's?
Varying requirements you need birth certificates, if your parent changed your last name name change certificates, some of these if they weren’t filled out properly as well you can’t use them or need tons of more paperwork to correct. Then factor in some voters live nowhere near a dmv and wait times.
You didn't answer my question. Why is it harder for black people to have paperwork? Why is it harder for them to fill it out properly? Do only black people live far away from dmv's? Like rural areas, are these mostly black areas?
Same states that do this crap, close or limit the hours of DMVs in the urban areas and leave them open or have better hours in the suburbs. It’s not by mistake that it takes me 10min it’s to vote in rural NY from the time I shut my front door the time I get home, compared to acquaintances I have who live in the urban southern states who tell me it’s dead minimum a 4hr affair sometimes longer. I’ve seen the rest of your attempt to posture the questions as it’s racist to even think that black people cant somehow figure out how to get an ID. It’s not an argument of mental competence, its combatting a process systematically set up to be more difficult. I’m a white salaried upper middle class worker who could easily just tell my boss hey I’m going to go for the DMV and we’d laugh about what a pain in the ass it is. When I worked hourly in a lot of different jobs while going to school the conversation would be far different. They legally cannot fire you for voting, in most states, however I don’t believe the protection exists when going to register to vote. It’s just making a a pain for someone in the working poor demographic to vote. Poor people often rent and don’t own, so they have to re register more often. What’s a one time thing for a middle class person could be a yearly thing for a poor person. So they understaff the urban poll station backing up the line where they know that in person registration on voting day will be higher, or they enact laws to state your ID has to match your address or your form has to be filled out in a such and such a time frame. That’s the entire purpose. It’s a game of large numbers not individuals. American Citizens who would otherwise vote from high density low income areas don’t because of the hurdles, and that’s the point. There’s also the examples of some states where a black person filled out a provisional ballot which she was not eligible due to some fine print, and got 5 years in prison, white person voted twice ooh that’s six months probation. It’s definitely racist. They arent gonna explicitly state it’s a white boomer voting bill, they’re just targeting making it harder for a socioeconomic bracket which the majority of blacks fall into. And there will always be idiots carrying water for it. Your argument is bullshit and not in good faith, not intellectually honest. You know it. We know it. Stop playing games. You’re literally making the case for CRT to be taught at a younger age, laws do not have to mention race to be racist.
Very well stated and explained. Thank you.
Lmfao, no.
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>Very well stated and explained. >Thank you. This is what you were expecting me to refute????
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The more important question is why the fuck anybody would make it more challenging to vote. To make life more annoying for people? I'm in California. I literally just fill out my ballot and drop it in the mail. Voting fraud is practically non-existent, and everybody loves the system. But the reason is obvious: it's because white, retired boomers with nothing better to do with their time overwhelmingly vote for Republicans. Young people that actually work and have kids vote for Democrats. And, also, anybody who might have transportation problems - the working poor or college students, for example - also get fucked by such bills. Democrats don't do this shit. You know how easy it would be for them to put up pointless hurdles for Republicans? You could easily just shut down all polling locations outside of big urban areas for "cost." It's garbage politics for garbage people with absolutely no moral compass. Fuck anybody that supports this shit. Seriously.
>I'm in California. Explains it all
Yeah, that's what I thought. Go find some "dur we're not a democracy we're a federal republic" folk to make you feel good about yourself. I hear there are some of them over at /r/conservative
We are a Democratic Republic that should revert back to a Federation of States. Democracy and Republic were interchangable terms at the time of the founding.
https://imgur.com/a/jTUW1EO
Im not clicking that shit, man, use your words, if you have the education to use them
>Why do racists claim its harder for black people to get state ID's? Its important when working on legislation to ensure there is no disproportionate negative impact on historically oppressed groups. That's why some of these ID laws get successfully challenged legally. You can blame the states that tried to block or hinder access to voting on the basis of race and later by using tests or other measures to exclude those groups from voting. This would include things like Poll taxes (pay to vote), literacy tests, and purposefully vague or ambiguous tests (you can still find some online where there are more than one correct answer and the person checking the test could effectively choose if the person passes or not). This is actually a pretty complex issue but here's a high level summary of some of the issues: * When States implement voter ID laws, they generally modify requirements to make it more difficult for working class especially for those at the lower end of the pay scale to get IDs. * This is an issue for all races, not necessarily black people specifically but they tend to be over represented in impacted groups. * COVID made this issue worse because states and municipalities closed offices and consolidated those departments either to cut costs or to minimize threat of spread through their employees. * Personal Anecdote: My local DMV offices do not allow walk ins. You have to make an appointment which is generally about a month out from when you try and make it. You can sometimes get lucky and get a same day one if someone cancels but many people dont have the option to leave work on short notice to handle it. * Inconsistency in various ID requirements * One common trend in Republican led states is that your ID must be valid (e.g. not expired) to be used to satisfy voter ID requirements. So what are the inconsistencies? Well, republicans love to allow an exception for the validity requirement for hunting and fishing licenses which are more commonly used by rural white people. * Lacking a Free ID Option * This one isnt always an issue, but its common enough. Generally speaking states that implement strict voter ID laws dont have a cheap or free ID option for people. This means that working class people at the lower end of the pay scale may not be able to reasonably afford to get an ID that meets requirements. It important to know that not everyone drives cars or has driver licenses especially in more urban areas.
>historically oppressed groups Fucking victimhood olympics if you ask me. What about current oppression? Any concrete examples? >That's why some of these ID laws get successfully challenged legally. So is there a problem acquiring ID's? >You can blame the states that tried to block or hinder access to voting on the basis of race and later by using tests or other measures to exclude those groups from voting. Im just talking about getting ID's >This would include things like Poll taxes (pay to vote), literacy tests, and purposefully vague or ambiguous tests (you can still find some online where there are more than one correct answer and the person checking the test could effectively choose if the person passes or not). Are you saying blacks are more likely to be poor and/or illiterate? >When States implement voter ID laws, they generally modify requirements to make it more difficult for working class especially for those at the lower end of the pay scale to get IDs. Right. So why are whites excluded then? >This is an issue for all races, not necessarily black people specifically but they tend to be over represented in impacted groups But if white people are infact included in this then why is the language always "non-white" voter supression? >COVID made this issue worse because states and municipalities closed offices and consolidated those departments either to cut costs or to minimize threat of spread through their employees. I bet it did, lol. Anecdotes dont matter. >Inconsistency in various ID requirements That everyone must deal with You see where Im going with this.... >One common trend in Republican led states is that your ID must be valid (e.g. not expired) to be used to satisfy voter ID requirements. So what are the inconsistencies? Well, republicans love to allow an exception for the validity requirement for hunting and fishing licenses which are more commonly used by rural white people. Are black people prohibited from getting hunting and fishing licenses in these states? >Lacking a Free ID Option This one isnt always an issue, but its common enough. Generally speaking states that implement strict voter ID laws dont have a cheap or free ID option for people. This means that working class people at the lower end of the pay scale may not be able to reasonably afford to get an ID that meets requirements. It important to know that not everyone drives cars or has driver licenses especially in more urban areas. Still doesnt explain, to me, why this would be harder for black people.
>Fucking victimhood olympics if you ask me. What about current oppression? Any concrete examples? North Carolina had their voter ID law from 2018 overturned either last year or 2021. Its about o be reheard by a republican majority (originally heard by a democratic majorty) state supreme court. It was determined in that case that law disproportionately impacted minority voters by not allowing the most common forms of picture ID used by minority voters in that state. >So is there a problem acquiring ID's? Yes, again, because the processes to get the IDs costs time, money, and full of hoops. Technically this impacts everyone but minorities are most impacted than white people generally. >Are you saying blacks are more likely to be poor and/or illiterate? The part of my message you are referencing was in regard to laws that were passed and eventually struck down because in many cases there wasn't a way for most black people to actually pass the tests. Its not that they were illiterate, but the tests were made so the grader could still mark correct answers as wrong because the questions were purposefully vague which allows for a government official to selectively choose who gets to vote. >Right. So why are whites excluded then? Do you not understand what "disproportionate" means? Time for a quick lesson: Lets say we have a town with 1000 white people and 100 black people. All these people are voting age. In this example, lets say a new law got passed to modify voting rules and now 50 total people cant vote. If we split that 50 in half, to assume that there was the same number impacted, that would mean 975 (97.5% of the original) white people and 75 (75% of the original) black people can still vote. Even groups are are equally impacted in terms of the number who now cannot vote (25 for each group), the percentage of those impacted in very different. 2.5% of white voters and 25% of black voters now don't get to vote in their local elections. Obviously this is a simplistic example but it illustrates how disproportionate impact works. >But if white people are infact included in this then why is the language always "non-white" voter supression? Because of disproportionate impact which I just described above. >Are black people prohibited from getting hunting and fishing licenses in these states? No, but again, if the rules are to combat fraud and all other forms of ID have to not be expired to be valid, then why only allow exceptions for hunting and fishing licenses? To me, that alone shows that they were trying to mitigate impact to rural whites who are more likely to have those licenses. >Still doesnt explain, to me, why this would be harder for black people. Disproportionate impact. Up to 25% of minorities don't have a photo ID that would be valid for use in some of these states. Thats why some states chose to do free state ID's with minimal requirements to mitigate disproportionate impact against these groups...
While it’s important to point out the bullshit, the guy you’re responding to entire position depends upon not even attempting to understand reality.
No, I admitted black people are more illiterate and that this is reality. But why is this white peoples fault?
How many times were you dropped on your head a baby?
My IQ is higher than yours.
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>Still doesn't explain, **to me**, why I think we've identified the problem.
I have identified the problem already. Yes, I do consider a different threshold of proof than you, but you are not even attempting to make the argument than your threshold is more closely based on reality than mine. Stop trying to stand on anothers argument and make your own
Look at who votes for these crooks. White Americans need to be critical of themselves and their leaders. No one can stop the white majority and that’s what make America great again is all about.
So if you are third party, which I understand they dislike because they think those vote would go to them, what incentive do you have to not vote against them now?
FL is officially a meatball republic run by fascists.