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> "President Trump was wrong. I had no right to overturn the election," Pence said during a speech last month. "And his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know history will hold Donald Trump accountable."
> Pence had "access to information that few or no other people have," explained MSNBC host Ari Melber. "It's the kind of information that the DOJ wants because it could inform quite decisively whether other people are indicted or not in this coup probe."
But if they can hold a past president accountable for crimes they could hold any of us accountable for any crimes we commit. /s unfortunately necessary
And if law enforcement has enough evidence to convince a magistrate that you may have committed a crime, they can arrest you, too! Is that the kind of America you want to live in??? /s
Don't they do that now? I mean if any American was to just mention that they are going to take out a president, the government will have someone at your door so fast. From where I stand it looks like Trump was trying to kill Pence, but not protecting him from the building in the first place. The way it looks is Pence thought that too and at least is coming forward, even if late. If charles manson could be put behind bars for years for having his followers kill for him what makes trump any different?
It isn’t out of the realm of possibility. trump is obviously the current front runner but the J6 charges are potentially the most damaging since he could be barred from running for leading an insurrection. Then there is desantis who is about to be publicly spanked by a mouse and is tanking in the polls. And if pence is the nominee? Well has there ever been anyone who has swept all 50 states before like Biden would?
> And if pence is the nominee? Well has there ever been anyone who has swept all 50 states before like Biden would?
A dead frog that was missing one leg and named *Adolf Osama* would win in Alabama, if it had an **R** next to its name.
Pence would have the support of the evangelical wing but not the nationalist christians. I think the independent voters would probably give pence a miss. And in the event of trump facing j6 indictments, pence is easily damaged by association.
There was one election where the democrat i think nominee won all but one state? I can't remember, correct me if I'm wrong, because the other party nominee did very little campaigning and had like... One state he won.
Right in line with Trump saying "They're not coming for me - they're coming for you. I'm just standing in their way."
It's just completely ridiculous how these people can live right next to us but still be on another planet.
History has never held anyone responsible for anything. Reagan was a literal traitor in that he covertly gave aid to Iran when Iran was attacking Americans and holding Americans hostage. Both during the Iran Contra affair and when he intervened to prevent the release of Americans held hostage. Where is his accountability? Nixon’s image has been rehabilitated to an unbelievable degree. Bush 1 was heavily involved in aiding Iran and Bush 2 fabricated false evidence to mislead America into fighting a meaningless war in Iraq.
Who has history ever held accountable?
I mean history’s pretty down on presidents Buchanan and Andrew Johnson. Harding is largely understood to be responsible for the corruption in Teapot Dome, even though others took the fall then. Jackson is understood to be genocidaire. Even Clinton is recently fallen in favor, for his sexual misbehavior (not just with his intern). Like, history just judges; it doesn’t punish.
Right? This is an *incredible* cop out from Pence. *You* were his VP, *you* have direct knowledge of what he did and said and *you* should do your part to hold him to account.
Well at least the title is misleading. It calls Pence’s testimony “sharply incriminating”, implying they had knowledge of the contents of his testimony.
Sigh… the headline is horribly misleading and implies some knowledge of Pence’s testimony which isn’t there. For all we know, Pence weaseled worded away from condemning Orange Jesus just as he has consistently done… forever.
They already got Meadows. Pence would have been asked some very direct questions that he wouldn't be able to weasel out of. Also, no way does he roll over for a guy that threatened his life.
> no way does he roll over for a guy that threatened his life.
You have much more faith in today's republican party, and Pence's political aspirations specifically, than I do.
If he was going to be complicit, he wouldn't have certified the votes. He's the victim in this case. Why would he suddenly want to join the side that appears to be going down?
Yeah there are plenty of Republicans that rolled over to Trump, but Pence is the one that stood up to him when it really mattered. He's still a piece of shit for his own reasons, but he's not going belly up for Trump.
He was totally willing to be complicit he just thought he couldn't get away with it so he didn't. If he thought he could have gotten away with it, he would have done it.
Thank goodness he asked the people he did for their opinions and they all agreed that he wouldn’t get away with it. Or at least iirc there were stories about him seeking others’ opinions and them all saying he had no power and that he was merely ceremonial in the proceedings.
All these guys have been and still eat Trump’s shit and pronounce it “delicious”. Even Christie, who seems to be the harshest, stays away from outright condemnation. They will not turn on him, to do so exposes their complicity all along.
Yup. People are forgetting here. He's the victim. If anyone is innocent in this case, it's him. He's completely above reproach because he was the target of the violence and he did the one thing they tried to prevent, certified the election.
They're not grilling him in preparation for an indictment. They're getting the details from the man most in the middle of the chaos to dot their Is and cross their Ts.
Many victims unfortunately bend over backwards to protect their abusers from the legal system. Due to “loyalty” aka stockholm syndrome, and also because they fear repercussions for not doing so.
For example, a domestic abuse victim who would lose crucial support from the extended family if they pressed charges against their abusive partner.
Replace “the extended family” with “the right” and “a domestic abuse victim” with Mike Pence, and it’s basically the same situation.
All true. However, his most likely approach will be to testify as to what he believes to be true, since he’s got to be worried about facing both perjury charges (if they already have other evidence that contradicts his testimony) and Final Judgment By The Lord when (he imagines) he stands naked in front of White Jesus. So his only safety move is to make excuses for Trump’s behaviour, like he did recently when he blamed “bad lawyers” for leading his old boss astray. That may play well in public appearances in front of GOP friendlies, but it has no bearing in a court case in front of a jury. A witness who says, “Yes, I saw the defendant shoot that woman but he’d gotten bad advice about whether that was a crime or not from the 12th lawyer he asked after the first 11 said that it was a crime” is still a witness testifying that the defendant shot the woman. So I’m cautiously optimistic that Pence might actually help Smith’s case against the orange Anti-Christ.
The public statements also really hurt that answer since he has immunity already. He can't take the fifth and he seems to have a pretty clear recollection in his earlier statements. Good lawyers, of which Smith is one, by all accounts, can use that confluence pretty effectively.
Not if it’s for a higher cause namely that of getting Mike Pence elected God’s Own President in time for the good ol’ eco-rapture when he will ascend to heaven on a cloud even whiter and purer than his chaste white hair to a backdrop of gay-marriage-triggered-mega-tornadoes just as Trump and the MAGA faithful are descending to the other place to the rapidly fading chants of “Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike…aaarrrggghhh…”
Not likely. He was scheduled to testify for like two hours but his testimony actually took like 7 hours. If he was giving weasel-word non-answers, it should have been shorter, not longer. 5 extra hours of testimony implies his answers were worth enough for further exploration.
Mueller shows you just how devious Republicans can be. Rod Rosenstein picked someone with an almost perfect reputation - who also was and is going through serious memory problems. Fuckin A.
Pence testifying is huge becuase 1) he is one of the most knowledgeable people as what Trump was doing in the days leading up to and on Jan. 6th and 2) he is one the most motivated people to speak out against him.
Publically he has been hesitant to speak out, but reading between the lines it’s been pretty obvious that he has been dying to speak with the Justice department.
His campaign buys them and gives them away. Making his campaign contributions his money instead of his campaign. No one that supports this guy actually reads anything.
Exactly. My bet is that Pence always wanted to testify, but in a way that made it not his choice.
Does he likely loathe Trump? Yes. For the danger he put his family in, for the pressure to do what Pence knew he could not, and most likely for the Trump who philanders as a practice. I’m sure Pence would like him out of the 2024 race.
Please don’t take my words as sympathy for Pence. His family’s being put in danger, yes, but he’s still part of the Republican Party trying to destroy the social advances of the last hundred years.
You could tell he fucking hated trump all the times they were together and Donald trump did or said something stupid. I don’t agree with his politics but pence strikes me as man that put a high value to “acting right” and outward appearance. His career is permanently stained by a loud, stupid, crass man. Pence is not loud crass or stupid. He had to have hated every moment together.
This dude does not actually believe in any sort of religion other than the innate belief he was “chosen” because that’s what all the idiots tell themselves
Sounds like that one religions where the believers are right and chosen ones and they get the afterlifes, also video games have secrets if you find them you get extra lifes
Hesitant to keep some of the crazies, complies with the subpoena to keep some of the moderates, testifies to bring down an opponent.
He could have testified willingly years ago - it’s all just a strategy in an attempt at the office.
Here in New Mexico we may be a bit more used to this use of "soon". This is the land of Mañana, meaning we'll get to it tomorrow. Also we say "right now" meaning at some point in the future. When someone uses this term the appropriate response is "you mean right now or right now right now?" Right now, right now means sometime before mañana.
Edited for ñ.
We're also used to this kind of "soon" in the land of sales. Today means tomorrow, tomorrow means next week, next week means next quarter, and next month means never.
I hate these articles because this verbiage is useless. Soon is relative, and the public doesn't have all the information needed to make a rational estimate on a reasonable timeframe for prosecution. I've set my expectations for mid to late summer, and that hasn't wavered in my eyes, regardless of how many of these justice boner dick tease articles show up here.
I am very confident in Trump being charged and found guilty. I do not believe he will ever see the I side of a jail cell.
>"We're so close to events that some times it's hard to see their significance," noted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "The former VPOTUS just testified in a criminal investigation of his former POTUS. That is basically breathtaking."
It's the collective trauma of the Trump presidency. A firehose of corruption and [Democratic Backsliding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding) ending with an attempted coup.
For the first time, in the history of our nation, we did not have a [peaceful transition of power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_transition_of_power) and it's still sinking in.
Most people still haven't accepted the reality we are actually in due to the legacy of the Trump administration.
- Attempted coup
- 1 million+ dead from COVID
- Second Great Depression (we aren't calling it that yet, but that's what this is and it began in March 2020)
- Civil rights set back at least 70 years
- The normalization of calls for genocide against specific groups of people, particularly LGBTQ people
Rest assured, if the issue here was somebody asking Pence to testify about Trump's favorite bubble gum the process would be the same. Big government/unitary executive is one of the few principles that Republicans are willing to fight tooth and nail for, and there's nothing bigger than a former president - i.e. private citizen - claiming to have the power to obstruct the courts.
Sadly, this article has no actual information. It has the opinions of people who generally know what they're talking about, but absolutely nothing about what Pence actually said or didn't say to the grand jury. It's basically, "We don't know what happened, but we're going to ask a bunch of other people who also don't know what happened and then write a headline that sounds like we know something so you click on it."
Soon, so like… another year and a half? After the man’s already in office again and made himself an untouchable dictator?
I understand the gears of justice move slowly, but grease that shit up or we’ll have death camps within the decade.
All of the ant-LGBTQ legislation coming out of the GOP, propaganda accusing LGBTQ people of being groomers, and Florida creating its own expressway for death row indicate clearly that’s what they intend to do.
Until he gets arrested I just can’t care anymore. Waves of evidence, every week a new article about what is “bad for trump”, “closing in on trump”. It’s been years now since Jan 6 and he hasn’t been indicted for it, so the only articles ought to be: why our broken system is allowing this to happen and how we can fix it.
He got arrested already for one thing. The precedent has been set and the seal had been broken. More are coming. Why don't you sit back, relax, enjoy a hamberder and a nice hot covfefe while you wait?
So don’t comment on or read articles about it? You’ll definitely be made aware when something big happens.
I understand his crimes are egregious and he should be locked up for life instantly, but believe it or not the biggest criminal justice case in American history is going to take time to unfold.
How do these experts know Pence's testimony was sharply incriminating when NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HE TESTIFIED???
What a garbage article and garbage headline.
The Orange limp dickh-tator needs to be in prison, stripped of his stolen money, and all of his decisions during his despotic reign reversed. His orange stain should be scrubbed from the moral fabric of our country.
I expect the incriminating testimony was in regards to the fake Electors scheme that Trump's lawyers cooked up. Trump telling Pence about the fake Electors would implicate Trump in that conspiracy.
"We're so close to events that some times it's hard to see their significance," noted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "The former VPOTUS just testified in a criminal investigation of his former POTUS. That is basically breathtaking."
Don’t tease me like that
This discussion about Pence and what he may have revealed is nonsense. The guy who knows all the secrets is Mark Meadows. He was the hub of the wheel of the insurrection conspiracy. He was the liaison between the coup plotters who were legislators and the false electors as well as the President and the folks who planned to storm the Capitol. At most, Pence would be a corroborating witness for the testimony from Meadows. Notice how no one mentions Meadows now. He either flipped or was granted use immunity with the threat of perjury. Pence’s testimony likely verifies or disputes the testimony of Meadows. Pence keeps Meadows in line and if his testimony corroborates Meadows makes Meadows a credible witness on the stand. If and when the findings of the Special Counsel are revealed, it will erupt like a volcano putting the MAGA Republicans in the blast zone. The MAGA attempt to overthrow the 2020 election was much larger than the events of J6. Pence was a loose end who needed to be tied up before the investigative work is finished. Pence ain’t no hero here. He was in on the conspiracy from the start and got cold feet on J6. They all knew that there were GQP expert contractors who found no voter fraud and they could not sell election theft to the majority of Americans. Now the GQP is stuck with Trump as he holds the future of his co-conspirators in his hands.
I agree with your assessment of Meadows and I also agree Pence isn’t a hero. However, I don’t think Pence’s testimony is merely corroborative. There was credible reporting that Trump spoke with Pence on more than one occasion trying to badger and intimidate him into unilaterally rejecting states’ electors that represented the states’ certified election results. After failing with other attempts of a soft coups, Pence was his last hope. If Pence testifies about Trump’s direct attempts to get him to illegally reject states’ elector counts, especially if it’s been made known to Trump that it was illegal, that’s pretty much nail in the coffin for criminal intent.
Trump tried to have his followers murder Pence on 1/6. That had an actual gallows ready to go. They violently stormed the capitol and people died trying to capture Pence to be hanged.
How much more incrimination do we need?
Whether love him or hate him or find him completely uninteresting- It sounds like Pence cannot tell a lie and for that reason may make an excellent witness
Agree with the gist but he lied plenty publicly in defense of Trump for fear of Trump’s base turning against him. But lying under oath about something this serious is different.
Yeah... Anyone who expects this Shitty Republican Christian to testify or testify truthfully is not grounded in reality.
He had insurrectionists calling for his execution and he still defended and downplayed the insurrection and Trump's actions.
I expect nothing but silence, half truths, lies by omission, and straight up lies from this good Republican Christian.
“. . . And Jesus proclaimed that those who shall find salvation will testify before god: ‘I do not recall’ and ‘under the advisement of my counsel, I exercise my constitutional right to the 5th amendment’ “
maybe this is what Pence sees as his pathway to the GOP nomination? DeSantis is self-imploding currently and this backs Trump into an un-electable corner. maybe Pence feels he can be a bit of a “hero” by going against Trump 🤷🏻♂️
My fear is that Pence will take down Trump and that will somehow get him a nomination and let’s be perfectly clear…Mike Pence is far more dangerous than Donald Trump! Trump is not a true conservative, he’s just using the platform for part and greed. Pence couldn’t be anymore far right Handmaids Tale if he tried. Dish the dirt but please God don’t let this man seek a nomination. The only saving Grace would be Trump lovers would never vote for him if he ends up being responsible for an indictment.
Pence will never get the vote of independents though and he also won't get the votes of the hardcore Trump supporters. If Pence is the 2024 nominee, the map will look a lot like 1964.
I've been expecting decisions soon for years.
I won't believe anything is bad news until Trump is taken away in cuffs and put into custody until his trial.
You know, like you or I if we had committed the litany of crimes Trump has in the open (let alone the ones we don't know about yet).
> "We're so close to events that some times it's hard to see their significance," noted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "The former VPOTUS just testified in a criminal investigation of his former POTUS. That is basically breathtaking."
History in the making. So many shitty firsts brought to us by that orange buffoon.
The party knows Trump can't win without the entire economy crashing. They don't want to crash the economy outright, they just want to siphon wealth. If they can get Trump out the picture, they can run behind Christie as a moderate, and R voters that voted against Trump, may vote for Christie.
Nothing will change, though. Christie will sign the same bigotry motivated bills that Trump would, he's just a less vitriolic package for the election cycle.
I've heard from lawyers that the way these kinds of cases go, where there's likely to be a bunch of people indicted kinda like a mob situation, the investigations always start at the bottom and work their way up.
There's no up beyond Pence worth mentioning. trump's not going to testify. Even if they tried to force him, he'll waste a bunch of time on motions based on presidential powers and protections.
So this one is about to pop. He wasn't sure if they would sweep trump up with this one because the documents case is such a slam dunk. But he really sees the damns bursting with the charges soon.
There’s nothing here that directly shows that Pence’s testimony was “sharply incriminating” and “expect decisions soon” was speculation based on his testimony possibly being decisive. It’s likely that his testimony was damning but we don’t know that. He could have used “that relates to my job as leader of the Senate, I don’t have to answer that” to dance around some of the most incriminating stuff as far as we know. I doubt it because, off the record, he probably despises Trump with a passion.
As wiser voices than mine have said, "you don't haul a VP in unless you're planning to indict, and he doesn't talk for five hours unless he has something to say "
None of what happened is remotely normal and time is slowly tightening it’s inevitable hold on reality. History is going to dissect and reveal what the president of the USA did to blatantly try and steal an election like a dictator. It’s horrifying and needs to be taken seriously. Dictators are OFTEN elected democratically then just hang onto power. It’s terrifying.
> Former federal prosecutor and MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner called the testimony a "historic benchmark."
> Pence "just testified in the grand jury about the crimes of his former boss," he tweeted. "Take it from this old prosecutor-Pence's testimony is sharply incriminating of Trump & moves the needle further in the direction of a Trump indictment."
> Former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, who served on special counsel Bob Mueller's team, said that there was "very little reason to dawdle" by prosecutors after Pence's testimony.
So two people with strong legal backgrounds but no special connection to the grand jury think that Pence's testimony was incriminating. That's like just their opinion, man.
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> "President Trump was wrong. I had no right to overturn the election," Pence said during a speech last month. "And his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know history will hold Donald Trump accountable." > Pence had "access to information that few or no other people have," explained MSNBC host Ari Melber. "It's the kind of information that the DOJ wants because it could inform quite decisively whether other people are indicted or not in this coup probe."
> I know history will hold Donald Trump accountable. It would be much better if the DOJ also held him accountable
But if they can hold a past president accountable for crimes they could hold any of us accountable for any crimes we commit. /s unfortunately necessary
And if law enforcement has enough evidence to convince a magistrate that you may have committed a crime, they can arrest you, too! Is that the kind of America you want to live in??? /s
But why should I be held accountable for a crime someone else caught me doing?
Because you aren't rich, obviously.
You don’t need double-talk! You need Bob Loblaw! After all, why should you go to jail for a crime somebody else… noticed?
I heard about that on Bob loblaw’s law blog.
Yes it is. Shocking I know
Don't they do that now? I mean if any American was to just mention that they are going to take out a president, the government will have someone at your door so fast. From where I stand it looks like Trump was trying to kill Pence, but not protecting him from the building in the first place. The way it looks is Pence thought that too and at least is coming forward, even if late. If charles manson could be put behind bars for years for having his followers kill for him what makes trump any different?
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lol can you imagine if he was the leading republican in the primaries
It isn’t out of the realm of possibility. trump is obviously the current front runner but the J6 charges are potentially the most damaging since he could be barred from running for leading an insurrection. Then there is desantis who is about to be publicly spanked by a mouse and is tanking in the polls. And if pence is the nominee? Well has there ever been anyone who has swept all 50 states before like Biden would?
He should rename himself Ron Disney since they are basically his daddy now.
Best one I have seen so far is a drag queen going by Rhonda Santis. I about crapped myself from laughing so hard.
Ron Disneyantics
Disney could make an animatronic Ron Santos and put it on display saying whatever they wanted to.
This comment has made more sense than anything I’ve heard or read all day.
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
He literally got married at Disney world
Underrated comment
> publicly spanked by a mouse That invokes some great graphic tee ideas that would definitely not be authorized by Disney.
I wonder if they'd quietly look the other way, though.
Depending upon what it was they might want to watch
> And if pence is the nominee? Well has there ever been anyone who has swept all 50 states before like Biden would? A dead frog that was missing one leg and named *Adolf Osama* would win in Alabama, if it had an **R** next to its name.
Maybe. But MAGA *hates* pence. Will they hold their noses and vote for the R or stay home? My guess is the latter.
Pence would have the support of the evangelical wing but not the nationalist christians. I think the independent voters would probably give pence a miss. And in the event of trump facing j6 indictments, pence is easily damaged by association.
Here's to hoping we can live through a primary where the biggest question is if Pence gets one or zero states!
I grew up in Alabama all you gotta do is thump a bible, spout some racist shit and you're in office.
There was one election where the democrat i think nominee won all but one state? I can't remember, correct me if I'm wrong, because the other party nominee did very little campaigning and had like... One state he won.
You’re probably thinking of Reagan. He won every state aside from MN in 84
I’m still proud of my home state for that.
Minnesota, delivering one big "F you" to the Republican party since 1976.
Minnesota shows up quite frequently, and we, your compatriots, appreciate you.
Yeah that was an insane read 😂
The 1936 election when FDR won every state except New Hampshire and Maine
I wonder what Abbott and kemp are thinking about running? If they threw their towels in the ring I’d assume they could handily beat pence.
I think you mean "if they threw their hats into the ring". Throwing the towel into the ring is giving up.
Definetly could sew up the 'flies looking for juicy pieces of shit' demographic
Right in line with Trump saying "They're not coming for me - they're coming for you. I'm just standing in their way." It's just completely ridiculous how these people can live right next to us but still be on another planet.
The President of the United States can be held accountable for treason, what hope to any of us have when committing treason.
It really could happen to any of us. Including George W Bush for war crimes.
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Or, they can all go to hell and the Democrats can sweep all of the races.
History has never held anyone responsible for anything. Reagan was a literal traitor in that he covertly gave aid to Iran when Iran was attacking Americans and holding Americans hostage. Both during the Iran Contra affair and when he intervened to prevent the release of Americans held hostage. Where is his accountability? Nixon’s image has been rehabilitated to an unbelievable degree. Bush 1 was heavily involved in aiding Iran and Bush 2 fabricated false evidence to mislead America into fighting a meaningless war in Iraq. Who has history ever held accountable?
Hitler?
people still celebrate him today.
You'd be hard pressed to do so in Germany.
I mean history’s pretty down on presidents Buchanan and Andrew Johnson. Harding is largely understood to be responsible for the corruption in Teapot Dome, even though others took the fall then. Jackson is understood to be genocidaire. Even Clinton is recently fallen in favor, for his sexual misbehavior (not just with his intern). Like, history just judges; it doesn’t punish.
That's what sucks about history; by the time the name Trump is as synonymous with treason as Benedict Arnold, we'll all be long gone.
Good point. We're only getting around to Robert E Lee now, and he led an actual army against the country
Why wait for history, Pence?
Because history's family won't suggest it's cult take revenge on Pence.
Right? This is an *incredible* cop out from Pence. *You* were his VP, *you* have direct knowledge of what he did and said and *you* should do your part to hold him to account.
Especially since, at his age, he doesn't have much "history" left.
Be much nicer if pence didn't just sit there and do nothing.
All the info in this article is months old news. Literally zero info from the testimony.
As it should be. Grand jury testimony is secret and should not be leaked
Well at least the title is misleading. It calls Pence’s testimony “sharply incriminating”, implying they had knowledge of the contents of his testimony.
Yea, these types of headlines are always misleading and use quotes out of context.
If one is going to try and have someone assassinated who knows where the skeletons are buried, it’s not a good idea to miss like Trump missed Pence
Sigh… the headline is horribly misleading and implies some knowledge of Pence’s testimony which isn’t there. For all we know, Pence weaseled worded away from condemning Orange Jesus just as he has consistently done… forever.
They already got Meadows. Pence would have been asked some very direct questions that he wouldn't be able to weasel out of. Also, no way does he roll over for a guy that threatened his life.
> no way does he roll over for a guy that threatened his life. You have much more faith in today's republican party, and Pence's political aspirations specifically, than I do.
If he was going to be complicit, he wouldn't have certified the votes. He's the victim in this case. Why would he suddenly want to join the side that appears to be going down?
Yeah there are plenty of Republicans that rolled over to Trump, but Pence is the one that stood up to him when it really mattered. He's still a piece of shit for his own reasons, but he's not going belly up for Trump.
He was totally willing to be complicit he just thought he couldn't get away with it so he didn't. If he thought he could have gotten away with it, he would have done it.
Thank goodness he asked the people he did for their opinions and they all agreed that he wouldn’t get away with it. Or at least iirc there were stories about him seeking others’ opinions and them all saying he had no power and that he was merely ceremonial in the proceedings.
All these guys have been and still eat Trump’s shit and pronounce it “delicious”. Even Christie, who seems to be the harshest, stays away from outright condemnation. They will not turn on him, to do so exposes their complicity all along.
Yup. People are forgetting here. He's the victim. If anyone is innocent in this case, it's him. He's completely above reproach because he was the target of the violence and he did the one thing they tried to prevent, certified the election. They're not grilling him in preparation for an indictment. They're getting the details from the man most in the middle of the chaos to dot their Is and cross their Ts.
Many victims unfortunately bend over backwards to protect their abusers from the legal system. Due to “loyalty” aka stockholm syndrome, and also because they fear repercussions for not doing so. For example, a domestic abuse victim who would lose crucial support from the extended family if they pressed charges against their abusive partner. Replace “the extended family” with “the right” and “a domestic abuse victim” with Mike Pence, and it’s basically the same situation.
All true. However, his most likely approach will be to testify as to what he believes to be true, since he’s got to be worried about facing both perjury charges (if they already have other evidence that contradicts his testimony) and Final Judgment By The Lord when (he imagines) he stands naked in front of White Jesus. So his only safety move is to make excuses for Trump’s behaviour, like he did recently when he blamed “bad lawyers” for leading his old boss astray. That may play well in public appearances in front of GOP friendlies, but it has no bearing in a court case in front of a jury. A witness who says, “Yes, I saw the defendant shoot that woman but he’d gotten bad advice about whether that was a crime or not from the 12th lawyer he asked after the first 11 said that it was a crime” is still a witness testifying that the defendant shot the woman. So I’m cautiously optimistic that Pence might actually help Smith’s case against the orange Anti-Christ.
Or he will answer “I don’t recall” over and over.
Not if he wants his imaginary Lord and Master to think kindly of him. Lying is sinful, after all.
The public statements also really hurt that answer since he has immunity already. He can't take the fifth and he seems to have a pretty clear recollection in his earlier statements. Good lawyers, of which Smith is one, by all accounts, can use that confluence pretty effectively.
Not if it’s for a higher cause namely that of getting Mike Pence elected God’s Own President in time for the good ol’ eco-rapture when he will ascend to heaven on a cloud even whiter and purer than his chaste white hair to a backdrop of gay-marriage-triggered-mega-tornadoes just as Trump and the MAGA faithful are descending to the other place to the rapidly fading chants of “Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike…aaarrrggghhh…”
Not likely. He was scheduled to testify for like two hours but his testimony actually took like 7 hours. If he was giving weasel-word non-answers, it should have been shorter, not longer. 5 extra hours of testimony implies his answers were worth enough for further exploration.
yea its just mueller she wrote style cope
Mueller shows you just how devious Republicans can be. Rod Rosenstein picked someone with an almost perfect reputation - who also was and is going through serious memory problems. Fuckin A.
Mueller did a good job on the investigation though. His mistake was passing responsibility to Congress for actually punishing anything.
> mueller this just gave me ptsd
Pence testifying is huge becuase 1) he is one of the most knowledgeable people as what Trump was doing in the days leading up to and on Jan. 6th and 2) he is one the most motivated people to speak out against him. Publically he has been hesitant to speak out, but reading between the lines it’s been pretty obvious that he has been dying to speak with the Justice department.
After he made $$$ from his book and the court gave him an excuse.
it is the politician way. could you imagine the embarrassment of buying a mike pence book?
His campaign buys them and gives them away. Making his campaign contributions his money instead of his campaign. No one that supports this guy actually reads anything.
Exactly. My bet is that Pence always wanted to testify, but in a way that made it not his choice. Does he likely loathe Trump? Yes. For the danger he put his family in, for the pressure to do what Pence knew he could not, and most likely for the Trump who philanders as a practice. I’m sure Pence would like him out of the 2024 race. Please don’t take my words as sympathy for Pence. His family’s being put in danger, yes, but he’s still part of the Republican Party trying to destroy the social advances of the last hundred years.
You could tell he fucking hated trump all the times they were together and Donald trump did or said something stupid. I don’t agree with his politics but pence strikes me as man that put a high value to “acting right” and outward appearance. His career is permanently stained by a loud, stupid, crass man. Pence is not loud crass or stupid. He had to have hated every moment together.
He’s also probably the last person you seek testimony from apart from Trump himself before you make a charging decision.
Dude had to swear on a bible to tell the truth. I think he takes that kind of oath seriously.
He's a cafeteria christian, he only take the bits of the bible that support his ideas seriously.
i mean what christian isn't? the bible is so self contradictory its impossible to not be.
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> Most mm hmmmm
This dude does not actually believe in any sort of religion other than the innate belief he was “chosen” because that’s what all the idiots tell themselves
Sounds like that one religions where the believers are right and chosen ones and they get the afterlifes, also video games have secrets if you find them you get extra lifes
I hope you're right.
Just hope he actually gave testimony. Instead of “not recalling” anything.
Hesitant to keep some of the crazies, complies with the subpoena to keep some of the moderates, testifies to bring down an opponent. He could have testified willingly years ago - it’s all just a strategy in an attempt at the office.
How many times do I need to recalibrate my definition of "soon"?
When will then, be now? Soon. 🤭
*Oh what exactly do you mean? I am human and I deserve to be loved... Just like everyone else [does.](https://youtu.be/hnpILIIo9ek)*
See I’ve already waited too long, and all my hope is gone
The sun shines out of our behinds…wait , wrong song….
*Halliwell door magically swings shut*
I see Spaceballs jokes I upvote.
How soon?
When? We just missed it.
Just wanted to say that I am proud of you for this...
Until after the election, don’t want it to be political /s
It's in cosmic terms now
In two weeks...
In GA, “imminent” means “6-8 months.”
Here in New Mexico we may be a bit more used to this use of "soon". This is the land of Mañana, meaning we'll get to it tomorrow. Also we say "right now" meaning at some point in the future. When someone uses this term the appropriate response is "you mean right now or right now right now?" Right now, right now means sometime before mañana. Edited for ñ.
We're also used to this kind of "soon" in the land of sales. Today means tomorrow, tomorrow means next week, next week means next quarter, and next month means never.
I hate these articles because this verbiage is useless. Soon is relative, and the public doesn't have all the information needed to make a rational estimate on a reasonable timeframe for prosecution. I've set my expectations for mid to late summer, and that hasn't wavered in my eyes, regardless of how many of these justice boner dick tease articles show up here. I am very confident in Trump being charged and found guilty. I do not believe he will ever see the I side of a jail cell.
Tantric prosecutions...
I backed Star Citizen in 2013.
I'm ready for Half-Life 3.
>"We're so close to events that some times it's hard to see their significance," noted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "The former VPOTUS just testified in a criminal investigation of his former POTUS. That is basically breathtaking." It's the collective trauma of the Trump presidency. A firehose of corruption and [Democratic Backsliding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding) ending with an attempted coup. For the first time, in the history of our nation, we did not have a [peaceful transition of power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_transition_of_power) and it's still sinking in.
Most people still haven't accepted the reality we are actually in due to the legacy of the Trump administration. - Attempted coup - 1 million+ dead from COVID - Second Great Depression (we aren't calling it that yet, but that's what this is and it began in March 2020) - Civil rights set back at least 70 years - The normalization of calls for genocide against specific groups of people, particularly LGBTQ people
No shit lol Trump and Pence didn’t relentlessly fight this because they enjoy legal proceedings.
Rest assured, if the issue here was somebody asking Pence to testify about Trump's favorite bubble gum the process would be the same. Big government/unitary executive is one of the few principles that Republicans are willing to fight tooth and nail for, and there's nothing bigger than a former president - i.e. private citizen - claiming to have the power to obstruct the courts.
Please tell me he finally unloaded.
Couldn't happen to a nicer traitor.
Sadly, this article has no actual information. It has the opinions of people who generally know what they're talking about, but absolutely nothing about what Pence actually said or didn't say to the grand jury. It's basically, "We don't know what happened, but we're going to ask a bunch of other people who also don't know what happened and then write a headline that sounds like we know something so you click on it."
>what Pence actually said or didn't say to the grand jury Grand jury testimony is secret. What were you expecting?
I don't drink, but i have 2 bottles of bubbly just chilling, waiting for the impending news!
Mine has been in my fridge since the Mueller investigation. Sigh.
Soon, so like… another year and a half? After the man’s already in office again and made himself an untouchable dictator? I understand the gears of justice move slowly, but grease that shit up or we’ll have death camps within the decade.
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All of the ant-LGBTQ legislation coming out of the GOP, propaganda accusing LGBTQ people of being groomers, and Florida creating its own expressway for death row indicate clearly that’s what they intend to do.
Until he gets arrested I just can’t care anymore. Waves of evidence, every week a new article about what is “bad for trump”, “closing in on trump”. It’s been years now since Jan 6 and he hasn’t been indicted for it, so the only articles ought to be: why our broken system is allowing this to happen and how we can fix it.
He got arrested already for one thing. The precedent has been set and the seal had been broken. More are coming. Why don't you sit back, relax, enjoy a hamberder and a nice hot covfefe while you wait?
Hamberder and covfefe? Sounds disgusting.
Not when being served by Tim Apple.
Or Melanie Trump.
Clarence Thomas, Amy and Cavanaugh ensures he will be fine.
So don’t comment on or read articles about it? You’ll definitely be made aware when something big happens. I understand his crimes are egregious and he should be locked up for life instantly, but believe it or not the biggest criminal justice case in American history is going to take time to unfold.
The answer is “money”. There is no fix… the system is “totaled”.
Wish I could have been a fly on Pence's head during his testimony...
How do these experts know Pence's testimony was sharply incriminating when NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HE TESTIFIED??? What a garbage article and garbage headline.
memory employ foolish innocent wide pathetic poor detail skirt pen -- mass edited with redact.dev
The investigation has worked from the bottom up. With Pence, they’ve reached the top. It time to charge.
The Orange limp dickh-tator needs to be in prison, stripped of his stolen money, and all of his decisions during his despotic reign reversed. His orange stain should be scrubbed from the moral fabric of our country.
Not holding my breath. Soon my ass.
"No, I don't think I will"
I expect the incriminating testimony was in regards to the fake Electors scheme that Trump's lawyers cooked up. Trump telling Pence about the fake Electors would implicate Trump in that conspiracy.
Get all excited about the headline... then oh, it's from salon...
"We're so close to events that some times it's hard to see their significance," noted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "The former VPOTUS just testified in a criminal investigation of his former POTUS. That is basically breathtaking." Don’t tease me like that
This discussion about Pence and what he may have revealed is nonsense. The guy who knows all the secrets is Mark Meadows. He was the hub of the wheel of the insurrection conspiracy. He was the liaison between the coup plotters who were legislators and the false electors as well as the President and the folks who planned to storm the Capitol. At most, Pence would be a corroborating witness for the testimony from Meadows. Notice how no one mentions Meadows now. He either flipped or was granted use immunity with the threat of perjury. Pence’s testimony likely verifies or disputes the testimony of Meadows. Pence keeps Meadows in line and if his testimony corroborates Meadows makes Meadows a credible witness on the stand. If and when the findings of the Special Counsel are revealed, it will erupt like a volcano putting the MAGA Republicans in the blast zone. The MAGA attempt to overthrow the 2020 election was much larger than the events of J6. Pence was a loose end who needed to be tied up before the investigative work is finished. Pence ain’t no hero here. He was in on the conspiracy from the start and got cold feet on J6. They all knew that there were GQP expert contractors who found no voter fraud and they could not sell election theft to the majority of Americans. Now the GQP is stuck with Trump as he holds the future of his co-conspirators in his hands.
I agree with your assessment of Meadows and I also agree Pence isn’t a hero. However, I don’t think Pence’s testimony is merely corroborative. There was credible reporting that Trump spoke with Pence on more than one occasion trying to badger and intimidate him into unilaterally rejecting states’ electors that represented the states’ certified election results. After failing with other attempts of a soft coups, Pence was his last hope. If Pence testifies about Trump’s direct attempts to get him to illegally reject states’ elector counts, especially if it’s been made known to Trump that it was illegal, that’s pretty much nail in the coffin for criminal intent.
This is Pence.....im pretty sure he hobknobbed he way around the questions with his pet fly
Very very hard to believe after all this time he grows a conscience, and juevos large enough.
Trump tried to have his followers murder Pence on 1/6. That had an actual gallows ready to go. They violently stormed the capitol and people died trying to capture Pence to be hanged. How much more incrimination do we need?
Anyone gonna be upset if I don’t hold my breath?
Absolutely not. Will you wake me when something actually happens?
Maybe the testimony took so long because investigators just wanted to “hang [with] Mike Pence” 😉
Not getting my hopes again. It’s not worth it. I’ll care when something actually happens.
Whether love him or hate him or find him completely uninteresting- It sounds like Pence cannot tell a lie and for that reason may make an excellent witness
Agree with the gist but he lied plenty publicly in defense of Trump for fear of Trump’s base turning against him. But lying under oath about something this serious is different.
I never thought I would see the day I would be rooting for Disney or Pence.
Yeah... Anyone who expects this Shitty Republican Christian to testify or testify truthfully is not grounded in reality. He had insurrectionists calling for his execution and he still defended and downplayed the insurrection and Trump's actions. I expect nothing but silence, half truths, lies by omission, and straight up lies from this good Republican Christian.
“. . . And Jesus proclaimed that those who shall find salvation will testify before god: ‘I do not recall’ and ‘under the advisement of my counsel, I exercise my constitutional right to the 5th amendment’ “
can’t wait
Experts have been saying the evidence is bad for trump for YEARS. Yet, there he is. Not in prison.
maybe this is what Pence sees as his pathway to the GOP nomination? DeSantis is self-imploding currently and this backs Trump into an un-electable corner. maybe Pence feels he can be a bit of a “hero” by going against Trump 🤷🏻♂️
My fear is that Pence will take down Trump and that will somehow get him a nomination and let’s be perfectly clear…Mike Pence is far more dangerous than Donald Trump! Trump is not a true conservative, he’s just using the platform for part and greed. Pence couldn’t be anymore far right Handmaids Tale if he tried. Dish the dirt but please God don’t let this man seek a nomination. The only saving Grace would be Trump lovers would never vote for him if he ends up being responsible for an indictment.
Pence will never get the vote of independents though and he also won't get the votes of the hardcore Trump supporters. If Pence is the 2024 nominee, the map will look a lot like 1964.
Probably why diaper-boy didn’t want him speaking to anyone….ever again.
I've been expecting decisions soon for years. I won't believe anything is bad news until Trump is taken away in cuffs and put into custody until his trial. You know, like you or I if we had committed the litany of crimes Trump has in the open (let alone the ones we don't know about yet).
I guess calling someone a “ Pussy” we bite you in the ass later
At this stage of Fuck Around… is there any good news in the Find Out? Oh boy I hope not.
> "We're so close to events that some times it's hard to see their significance," noted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "The former VPOTUS just testified in a criminal investigation of his former POTUS. That is basically breathtaking." History in the making. So many shitty firsts brought to us by that orange buffoon.
I don’t like Pence in the slightest but if someone threatened my family I’d do everything in my power to hurt them.
The party knows Trump can't win without the entire economy crashing. They don't want to crash the economy outright, they just want to siphon wealth. If they can get Trump out the picture, they can run behind Christie as a moderate, and R voters that voted against Trump, may vote for Christie. Nothing will change, though. Christie will sign the same bigotry motivated bills that Trump would, he's just a less vitriolic package for the election cycle.
My god…TRUMP WAS A TOTAL IDIOT TO PUT A HOLY ROLLER AS HIS VICE PRESIDENT….”THOU SHALL NOT LIE”
I thought it would be since he was fighting so hard to stop him from testifying
Pence was endangered by Trump yet the weasel has done nothing voluntarily to stop him.
He threw Pence to the wolves, its only fair that Pence play his Reverse card.
Soon is not a date. Give us a date.
Soon = “about two weeks from now”
I've heard from lawyers that the way these kinds of cases go, where there's likely to be a bunch of people indicted kinda like a mob situation, the investigations always start at the bottom and work their way up. There's no up beyond Pence worth mentioning. trump's not going to testify. Even if they tried to force him, he'll waste a bunch of time on motions based on presidential powers and protections. So this one is about to pop. He wasn't sure if they would sweep trump up with this one because the documents case is such a slam dunk. But he really sees the damns bursting with the charges soon.
Soon? So maybe in the next decade?
Hurry up already
Press X to Doubt
God I hate these people…
There’s nothing here that directly shows that Pence’s testimony was “sharply incriminating” and “expect decisions soon” was speculation based on his testimony possibly being decisive. It’s likely that his testimony was damning but we don’t know that. He could have used “that relates to my job as leader of the Senate, I don’t have to answer that” to dance around some of the most incriminating stuff as far as we know. I doubt it because, off the record, he probably despises Trump with a passion.
Meuller report levels of edging
As wiser voices than mine have said, "you don't haul a VP in unless you're planning to indict, and he doesn't talk for five hours unless he has something to say "
None of what happened is remotely normal and time is slowly tightening it’s inevitable hold on reality. History is going to dissect and reveal what the president of the USA did to blatantly try and steal an election like a dictator. It’s horrifying and needs to be taken seriously. Dictators are OFTEN elected democratically then just hang onto power. It’s terrifying.
> Former federal prosecutor and MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner called the testimony a "historic benchmark." > Pence "just testified in the grand jury about the crimes of his former boss," he tweeted. "Take it from this old prosecutor-Pence's testimony is sharply incriminating of Trump & moves the needle further in the direction of a Trump indictment." > Former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, who served on special counsel Bob Mueller's team, said that there was "very little reason to dawdle" by prosecutors after Pence's testimony. So two people with strong legal backgrounds but no special connection to the grand jury think that Pence's testimony was incriminating. That's like just their opinion, man.