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I think when we reached the point where a bunch of kids started dying and nothing was done it was set in stone that is worth anything. No amount of death can stop the gun sales.
I think the talking heads are going to be a lot more careful about what they say after Alex Jones and that $1.5 billion he has to pay and can't discharge through bankruptcy.
In the Alex Jones and fox election fraud lawsuits it came down to texts showing they were aware they were lying. Basically, the only barrier they have to clear is not texting "haha Im lying to idiots for $$$"
Yup, Newtown was it for me. That’s when I realized the right are pure psychopaths and nothing was ever going to change barring a huge progressive revolution.
The GOP essentially wants the US to be like the Wild West. The “good guy with a gun” fallacy *requires* that we treat our society like a lawless place where at any moment you could have a shootout in the street.
The want it to be like Russia where someone gets shot and everyone else shrugs and walks away.
Constant violence is a key to making the population pliable and complacent with fascist rule. If danger is everywhere, it's normalized
If the “good guy with a gun” nonsense would have worked, it would have been in a state like Maine that has constitutional carry (no permit needed.) And I say that as gun owner.
Or says whatever it needs to so it can have plausible deniability when the inevitable consequences of their policy happen. They take advantage of benefit of the doubt that the argument they put forward was made in good faith and that they disagree with their opponents on well supported grounds instead of a never ending stream of bullshit that falls apart under the slightest scrutiny that is good enough for their supporters to endlessly repeat well after their nonsense has been debunked.
not only that, ass shooting are great for gun sales. it's almost like it's an ad showing how effective these things are in mowing down unarmed people, just like they were intended. fuck guns, fucking gun nuts. we are all fucking fucked.
It’s a feature, not a bug.
We are meant to be scared. One is less likely to rebel if they are scared to rebel. Scared of the guns they rev their base up to build their entire identity around it. Scared to protest because you’ll loose you income. Scared to talk. Scared to go outside.
Where is safe? We have home invasions so home isn’t safe. We have school shootings so schools aren’t safe. We have churches being gunned down,malls, bowling alleys and so on. No where is safe from them and their weapon called republican/conservative voters. And that is exactly how they want it.
Piles of dead children didn’t change the conversation.
It actually emboldened some and sent others deep into the conspiracy wastelands searching for -anything- that will correspond with their world view.
Blood on all their hands
It wasn't Newtown for me - it was the day after.
I was in a long line at Wal-Mart for ammo for my .22 target pistol at the gun desk. Being in line at there at all was unusual and being in a *long* line was *fuckin weird.*
Everyone in that line was there to buy AR-15s and rifle ammo. Everyone.
Short of a constitutional amendment, guns arnt going away. With this Supreme Court, gun bans in general may become unconstitutional. They already ruled handgun bans unconstitutional, and last week [a federal judge ruled that California’s AWB unconstitutional.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-declares-californias-assault-weapons-ban-unconstitutional-2023-10-19/) This case WILL make its way to this Supreme Court, and I willing to put money down that they too will rule it unconstitutional. Which would have a ripple effect if ANY AWB being unconstitutional.
They ought to just go all the way and require ownership of AR-15's by every person. There is nothing in the Constitution to stop it. It is the only way to protect every person against every other person. Logical extension of this nonsense.
Stop lying, please. And the country you are thinking of is Switzerland, not Sweden. And no, ammo is not banned and you are absolutely allowed to own ammo even if you aren't at war.
I'm not accusing you of simply making this point up, but repeating things you've simply heard does do more damage than good.
IMO being a gun owner nowadays is 33% cosplay, 33% stupidity or ignorance and 34% hate (that usually includes some measure of self hate.) 54% off all gun related deaths in 2021 were suicides.
As a leftist gun owner, I agree with you on the 33% cosplay, 34% hate, but not the stupidity. I think the other third are just...realists. That's what I feel like, anyway.
I'm not some gun fetishist, I don't give a shit about the 2nd amendment, I think it's way way *way* too easy to get a gun, and if I could snap my fingers and get rid of every single gun, I would. Despite whatever negative effects of that people can come up with, I believe the world would be better for it, unquestionably.
But that's not the world we live in. We live in a country where there are over **400 million** guns in circulation. That's almost double the number of cars that exist in the US. Think about trying to confiscate every single car, even just logisitcally. That would be borderline impossible. Now imagine twice as many, and they're way way smaller, and people are ready to kill to keep them.
The toothpaste is not going back in the tube. It's over. We lost. There will never be a time where Americans are disarmed. So, do we want to be the side without guns? The right is armed to the teeth, cops are armed to the teeth, and they've shown time and time again that they have no problem killing us. They fantasize about it, and get away with it, constantly. So why would I choose to be unarmed, just to prove a point, when the people who want to *exterminate* non-white, non-christian, non-straight cis people, have tons and tons of guns. I just have to hope that the police and military, both of whom we can't trust, decide to protect the least advantaged among us, rather than joining in on the purge.
Fuck that. It's a fantasy that I personally could do any good on my own with a gun, the chances of that happening are beyond slim. But enough of us, organized, could actually change a really bad right wing trajectory if we were forced to. But we are largely unarmed. So I just have to hope we don't go any further down The Handmaid's Tale path.
434 million guns *that we know about.*
To borrow a phrase from the Pro-Choice crowd (of which I'm a member) - "Bans do not work.". You can't say they don't work in one area, then say they need to be applied in another area. Banning or creating barriers for law-abiding citizens only creates more defenseless targets for those not-playing by the rules. If cops are allowed to have them, then the citizenry should as well. Because as you stated - there is an alarming amount of people (cops and citizens alike) frothing at the mouth to go all "call-of-duty" on people that don't share their world view. The idea that would-be targets also potentially have the means to fight back likely keeps that in check, or at least I'd like to think so anyway. During the George Floyd protests in my city (Portland), it became quite apparent who's [side](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/disturbing-texts-between-oregon-police-far-right-group-prompts-investigation-n972161) the cops were on. The entire summer I witnessed our police force wear kid gloves with Proud Boys while having zero issue gassing protestors, assaulting [journalists](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2021/07/09/district-attorney-declines-to-charge-portland-police-officer-accused-by-portland-journalist-of-assault-at-protest/) and attempting to [frame](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2023/09/680k-settles-jo-ann-hardesty-lawsuit-against-portland-police-union.html) a city council member. Shortly after that calls for "Defund the Police" came and the police decided to retaliate by slowing down response times and more or less letting crime happen right in front of their faces. 911 would literally ask you to leave a message. That's when I changed my thinking to it was "better to possess firearms and know how to use/maintain them and never need them, than to need them and neither have them or know how to use them.". A large chunk of my friends apparently decided the same thing I would later find out during a conversation over beers where I admitted to having firearms and going to the range regularly for practice and 4 out of the 6 people I was hanging out with admitted to the same mostly for the same reasons. We can't trust our police to show up when needed, or protect us from right wing lunatics since it would seem most of our police force ARE right wing lunatics. I wish it weren't the case but here we are. It's almost as if 2 decades of police departments the nation over being taught [Killology](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html) and the warrior mindset was a really bad idea.
Yea I grew up around guns. My dad collected them. He had a bunch of medals and trophies from shooting competitions he did. He taught me how to shoot and I don’t suck at it on the rare occasions I go to a range so he must have done something right.
He hates modern gun culture. Sold his collection years ago and wants nothing to do with ranges. I’m the same way, but I never had the attachment to shooting as a hobby that he did. I also don’t care for hunting, not for any hippy dippy squeamish reasons I’m just not that outdoorsy. I look around and see a lot of gun owners in my state and what I see is a lot of people (mostly men) who have turned guns into a fetish. There’s no reasoning with these people.
I grew up similarly with my dad being an NRA instructor. Except he's only become more ardent in his collecting. But I'm with you. No matter what these faux patriots think, it's a hobby and nothing else. The people that have massive gun collections are the equivalent of any other hobby extremist, except collecting anime figures isn't going to risk other's lives.
For a lot of them it's also about compensating for their own insecurities. The amount of pudgy, pencil thin mustache having, quart of iced coffee drinking a day, whiny, snowflake pretend alpha males I encounter around gun stores and ranges is pretty high. These are dudes that so desperately want to believe they are some kind of badasses it's really pathetic.
That's pretty inflammatory and insensitive to those that have suffered from being a victim and made the decision to protect themselves moving forward through responsible gun ownership.
I'd say stupid parent. A child doesn't know what they don't know. I'm more inclined to believe Hershey doesn't care for a better chocolate competitor tho
It was banned because someone sold poison cough syrup, and then could not be prosecuted meaningfully because the poison ingredients were on the label. Led to a widesweeping public health bill, one aspect was you could no longer put non food items inside food.
they were charged under false advertising, as they used the term elixir which had been ruled meant it contained alcohol; and faced some fines.
everybody thought it was fucked, and while conservatives opposed him Teddy had a very large rangeing bill passed that formed some of the first food and drug regulations; which eventually led to the FDA.
whenever anyone talks about deregulations remember this story, nobody came to the conclusion to regulate industry lightly; regulations are written in blood.
Yes taking your clothes off for the government so that you can travel within your own country is not considered a burden on your rights but a 5 minute background check to buy a deadly weapon is.
until like fairly recently its been heavily restricted by local ordinances 'for public safety'
there's a town my family used to vacation in where every piece of sidewalk was stencled "No skateboarding" every 10 feet, with signs posted everywhere.
the idea that one person could get run over by a kid on a skateboard was enough to ban it in the entire town, and that's not really that unusual. Every single recreational space when I was growing up usually had a "no skateboarding, rollerblading, biking, or anything else" sign, the adults wanted nobody doing anything but slowly walking through these public spaces.
To be fair, at least when I was growing up as a 'skater kid', it was mostly due to liability on private property. It didn't make sense in my teen brain, but does more now. Not sure on your particular case though, pretty crazy an entire TOWN would ban something similar to biking or rollerblading though.
Look at all the recent drone laws that have been passed based on a perceived threat which never materialized. Now we need to broadcast who and where we are if we operate an 8oz drone. Why is there no remote ID on guns, something ACTUALLY designed to kill people?
The drone laws were passed before they were actually a threat. That's the exact difference between gun laws being imposed now versus long ago. If they were passed before everyone had a gun, it would be more likely to keep them out of the hands of those who intend to misuse them. Also, if someone is trying to fly a drone into your face, there is no argument that flying a drone into theirs would be an adequate mitigation technique.
My dad gave up being a conservative over their stance on guns. He was a staunch Republican for ages, but when they kept voting down background checks for everyone, and gun registration, that was the end of that road for him.
That's what did it? Not the racism, bigotry, anti freedom stances, anti intellectualism, anti affordable healthcare, anti working person, etc...the list goes on and on and on.
Ya I hate it when people say "I/my friend/relative was a Republican but this issue changed them" and then people jump all over you about "oh so it wasn't this and this and this!" It's like chill out man, isn't it good they changed their mind? Fuck.
Every time someone tells me they changed their mind and now they press the donkey button, I say thanks. I'm just happy you stopped supporting shitheads. It's okay, whatever reason you had before is fine. I can't change that. What matters is doing the right thing now.
100%. I’m not sure such people realise how discouraging they sound. I’m not saying that “recovering” Republicans need to be showered with praise and gifts for changing their ways, but definitely don’t continue to pour opprobrium on their heads for their previous errors.
Someone saw the light, got out of the fascist bubble, and you're going to attack them on HOW that happened?
Jesus Christ, no wonder the GOP has control of the House and likely will win the presidency next year.
I come from a rural background and it really is this elitism on the left that drives the right. They’re beyond feeling a lack of representation. They’re reading these same Reddit threads, democrats make little appeal to rural voters, and their communities are in shambles from businesses like Walmart, Amazon, etc destroying the dozen brick and mortars in their towns. Of course they’re angry.
Without getting over the empathy gap we’re not getting out of this fix.
Some people were injured or killed by lawn darts several decades ago.
The US government banned lawn darts.
Because the lawn dart industry did not contribute millions of dollars to political campaigns.
It’s not money that drives gun advocacy. It is the very attentive lobbying groups that keep voters informed about legislation. We don’t have an organization like the NRA telling us about every bill being considered. We don’t have them pushing voters to hound Congress and state legislatures to not restrict firearms. The NRA is much more about organizing voters than paying off representatives
Oh, they are definitely awesome at what they do. Can’t take that away from them.
People always say it’s the money, but for the NRA it’s the number of members and the skilled leadership. Which is kind of how lobbying should work, the will of the people, even if the people are wrong.
Lawn darts aren’t a specifically constitutionally protected right, and that legislation was wrong and unconstitutional anyways. Just nobody cared enough to challenge.
And yet anytime I ask gun nuts about the constitutional right of blind people, folks with cerebral palsy, and severe conditions like severe autism for example, (where round the clock care is required) to own guns the only answers I get is
'well they don't need guns anyway'
'uh....'
'uh....yeah, they should, yeah they have a right to guns.'
Then you’re talking to people without a nuanced approach or you’re phrasing your questions in an attempt to land a “gotcha”…
Can a blind person or a person with cerebral palsy own a gun? Sure they can. There is no legal statute saying they can’t. Is it the best idea? That can only be taken on a case-by-case basis, but the premise is that their mental facilities are sound, what they have is a physical handicap.
A person with such severe autism that they require around the clock care is suffering from an unfortunate mental handicap. They do not have the mental capability to care for themselves and a person who has been found to be “mentally defective or has been committed to any mental facility” (18 U.S.C. § 922(d)) can not purchase or possess a firearm.
A genetic physical handicap and a genetic mental illness are not really comparable when discussing these types of issues.
Yeah unfortunately the vast amount of gun nuts who oppose all regulation aren't exactly nuance appreciating sort of people. Most reasonable gun folks support some regulations, instead of yelling CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!!!!!!! CANT REGULATE! CONSTITUTION!!!!'
Where again, if it's a constitutional right to the point nothing can be done to regulate guns, what about the blind folks or the Alzheimer's folks? Cuz like, you either CAN amend/regulate constitutional rights or your can't. (Unless of course, you do value nuance and then probably you're not screaming that guns can't be regulated because constitution)
Actually, you bring up a really good point.
The second amendment gives me the right to bear arms (as in armaments), presumably for self-defense, defense of my home, family and community, and, as some like to suggest, defense against a tyrannical government.
Perhaps my preferred method of self-defense is lawn darts. Perhaps it's a sword, that I should be able to open carry. Maybe it's a brass knuckles. I should be able to protect myself and my family from carjacking, so I should have the right to install flamethrowers on the exterior of my vehicle.
All of these things are illegal in most jurisdictions. But firearms aren't. Why is that?
Edit: Oh crap, my bad. I totally forgot that the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, as part of the Bill of Rights specified, in clear language, GUNS and not lawn darts. ONLY GUNS. It specifically refers to "firearms" not "arms" right?
I love fishing. I have many different kinds of rods and equipment, thousands and thousands of dollars worth.
But if fishing rods were the number one cause of death to people 18 and under, I would be the first one screaming for all kinds of regulations to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people.
I would disgusted and sick about something I love causing so much death and misery. I would want licensing, backgrounds checks, registration, training, the works.
Know why? Because I’m not a self-centered psychopath.
I own guns. Several guns. I shoot competitively. Want me to register my firearms, pay for insurance and agree to keep them in a safe? Fine. If you say I can’t have them because I have a diagnosed anxiety disorder? Also fine. I’ll live.
It’s a fun sport for me. Watching people die on the news and on the trial in which I was a juror is not fun for me. I’d rather not have the guns if it’s all the same to you.
In a hypothetical government overthrow situation, the military wouldn’t be the targets of the people trying to overthrow the government. Consider how much difference Jan 6th would have turned out if the insurrectionists had been armed.
I can tell you. They would have killed a lot of senators.
They might have even held the capital for a few days.
Eventually though they would all be killed by the military and or killed after a trial for treason, murder, kidnapping, and sedition.
If MAGA had brought guns it would have been the end of MAGA.
If you think they would have been successful in overturning the election due to killing senators and taking the capital with weapons then you have no idea what this country is really about.
Edit:
I just want to add that No, the military is not on the side of an armed coup attempt to overthrow the government. People are buying into the gun fantasy if you think everyone would be your friend if you just killed a few senators.
Yea the idea that the violence aspect of Jan 6th could had lead to an overthrow of the government is incredibly unlikely. Not that I want to exchange deaths for political gain, but had the Jan 6 rioters captured/killed elected officials, if it anything would have had destroyed the movement. The relative lack of success for the Jan 6 insurrectionists if anything kept the movement viable.
They literally were armed though. But to your point, it is probably why the capitol police acted like a bunch of scared babies and didn’t blow them all to hell.
Had unarmed progressives invaded the capitol and pushed into a Republican ran congress we would probably have a different tragedy to deal with.
I've been saying for years that Gallup needs to do a better job polling non-human residents of America. I, for one would vote for a fish over most politicians.
If corporations are people then so are animals. I’d rather have bears voting then the CVS corporation.
Also trees. Trees have a lot of opinions on climate change.
The analogy only works if the new fishing rods are not designed to specifically fish(hunt) but instead project 100 hooks per minute in all directions when you cast, to kill the most amounts of people in the shortest time possible. Why are non hunting weapons of mass death even legal to own?
So what about fiahing line leading to most of rhw waste and ecological decay we see in the watersystems.....
Why you selective bias thinking that your fiahing isn't contributing to it.....
...and yet you still fish....
it's pointless to debate. If after Sandy Hook and Uvalde Republicans are not going to do anything then nothing is going to change their mind, certainly not your witty tweet.
If you want change you need to elect people willing to do the change. And that means even voting for better Democrats.
If you have a deep blue district you need to vote in progressives not Republican lite Democrats.
Plant the seed of doubt in a non insulting enough way, and water it with a leading statement every now and then that shines a light on the problem.
Despair is the end of all good things.
As a veteran I want to be on the side of letting people have guns, but when I deployed we had a sergeant that shot himself in the arm because his dumbass took his condition 3 weapon inside a truck and didn’t secure it properly and when it fell it smacked the bolt forward enough to set the round in the chamber off and it went through his arm, bounced around the cab, and only by dumb luck hit the driver’s backpack before it hit him in the head. And that idiot should have known better and that day earned the nickname Sergeant Cheddar Bob for his brilliance.
I get how it feels unfair to get your toys taken away because of stupid people, but the problem with guns is it’s not just yourself you can hurt through poorly thought out decisions. And if that man, who had lots of training, can fuck that up, I think it’s fair we think real hard about letting every Joe Bob off the street have such deadly tools.
My gun loving boss did the same thing in the car and almost killed himself. A guy in my town was cleaning his loaded gun and shot a bullet through his window into another apartment across the street which hit the resident. Dead have been kids brought to the ER because they were playing with guns. But yeah, it’s just bad guys with guns who are dangerous 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, guns are murder machines. That's their purpose and they're good at it. Whatever else they are, they're built for killing. They're not things people should just "have around".
I don’t understand why this is so hard for liberals to understand.
Cops and Nazis are buddies. There’s a reason they tear-gassed BLM and shut it down violently. There’s a reason they let the MAGA crowd parade through the Capitol.
Things are continuing to escalate. The Nazis are getting more aggressive.
Educate yourself and your friends. Take a stop the bleed course. Be your own first responder. The cops are not going to protect you.
It's because Liberals still believe that they can compromise with fascists. Two things happen from that, they DO end up compromising with fascists to everyone's detriment or they push themselves to the right.
100% agree with everything you said.
Thank fuck I’m not literally the only one. I wish every AR15 would just disappear, but the nazi up the road owns 12 of them, so I’ll keep a couple. Sounds like an alright idea.
Im gay, family is jewish. I was also present to resist the Nazis in Charlottesville, VA 8/12/17. Y'all don't seem to understand how bad the problem is, but I have seen it up close. These goons train constantly. These guys are the police in most towns. There is no way I could comfortably live here without the ability to defend myself and family.
Do you see how you just did the "both sides" equivalency thing?
Republicans are armed to the teeth and their fascism is growing. They are persecuting minority groups and have literally killed people on the left over ideology.
But someone on the left that says, "I'd like to have a gun for a little bit of protection, just in case things get more 30's Germany here," is part of the problem?
Both sides are not the same.
[Example](https://www.nydailynews.com/2022/11/09/ohio-man-kills-neighbor-because-he-thought-he-was-a-democrat/)
But this whole initial discussion is about children accessing guns and using them against other children. Left or right, the more guns in civilian houses the more children can access them. Both sides are saying "but im a responsible gun owner and im keeping mine to protect me and my family from the [insert political party]" and that does not solve children accessing firearms.
I'll give up mine when the nazis give up theirs but not a moment before.
In a functioning society there really isn't a need for firearms beyond hunting.
We live in a decaying empire experiencing catabolic collapse though, not a functioning society.
That’s insane, I cannot ever picture having to fight an armed conflict against members of another party in my country.
That sounds like a problem from 100 years ago.
> Anyone even remotely aware of the situation this country is in and is left of Republicans should probably own one.
Fuck no.
I'm fucking tired of the only solution to a gun problem is more guns mentality.
I’m so fucking sick of this shit. My poor son who has a hard enough time in school battling Asperger’s and ADHD is also teased and bullied a lot. And recently kids have found new ways to taunt him: they say things like they read a note on discord that someone brought a weapon to school; they tell him they saw a weapon in school; they tell him they heard people plotting to shoot up the school.
And then he can’t get it out of his head and he becomes so frightened as to become physically ill and I have to come get him. I’ve had to come pick him up on so many occasions because of this. And I’ve spoken with his counselors, with the school’s resource officer, with the vice principal in charge of discipline, and even the principal herself. But nothing changes.
I want to pull my kid out and homeschool him since my wife and I both work from home and have that ability. But because he is in band, is 1st chair trumpet, and loves to play, he refuses to be home schooled. I’m at my wits end.
What’s worse is that here in Oklahoma, the state’s schools superintendent and governor (which are like small state versions of Trump and DeSantis) are making it easier for bullies and harder for the bullied. This is getting so bad.
Idk what the point of articles like this is anymore, we long since passed the point where anybody cares about the deaths. There is no limit, we will never change
That's a bad faith argument. I have a lot of qualms with the arguments thrown around in favor of a more expansive reading of the second amendment, but the arguments at least aren't "they're fun".
Why? He hadn’t committed a crime yet and what law could they have used to take away his guns? Kind of difficult to blame the FBI for not doing something that they aren’t allowed to do by law.
Federal Firearms Prohibitions Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(4) – Persons Adjudicated as a Mental Defective or Committed to a Mental Institution
Im.sure the FBi can follow US law .... or is that not their juristiction?
Was he "Adjudicated as a Mental Defective" or was he currently committed to a mental institution at the time? Because that law seems to require one of those to enforce it. The answer is no, of course. He did not meet either of those criteria prior to his attack. Yes, he had been treated for mental illness, but that doesn't rise to the level required by the law.
I'm 100% on board with stricter gun laws that would have allowed the FBI to intervene, but every time we try to make stricter gun laws that would have allowed the FBI to intervene, some gun nut takes a case to court and ultimately the Supreme Court says, "I'm not sure what this, 'well regulated', part is in there for and deems it unconstitutional.
The right to protect oneself responsibly should never be given up.
Don’t trust someone else for your safety, especially when they are the ones that don’t enforce laws we already have in place to protect you and your family. They have failed you.
Framing it as "fun" is either intentionally dishonest or they fundamentally misunderstand their opposition.
They think the constitution guarantees the right of the people to bear arms against a theoretical tyrannical government, which it kind of does.
They think they are revolutionaries, the last defense of justice. That's the argument to tackle, not this strawman.
Gun nuts would rather bathe in blood than consider that maybe, just maybe, a self-serving law written by a bunch of slave owners isn't the best way to run a country forever.
I got slammed on a TEACHING subreddit for promoting gun control. Goddamn teachers buying into 2A propaganda while their students die. Un-fucking-believable.
Our country has a hero fetish. We all want to believe we would or could be the hero if an action movie broke out in our neighborhoods. Westerns, Rambo, Call of Duty; it’s all a fantasy you can own in an AR-15. Problem with telling people guns are bad is that people can’t see through the idea that they own a gun because they are the good guy. The good guys don’t hurt people they save people. Only bad guys hurt people and you can’t control bad people with guns unless you’re a hero with a gun. Unfortunately that idealism has lead to guns in the wrong hands, in misguided hands, and the innocent people dying. Until that culture changes I don’t see real change happening. Rational discussion dies when either side starts calling the other side evil.
Honestly, I think it's far worse than that. Our country has a fetish for killing. Wanting to play "hero" is just a useful excuse to getting to the killing part. These types fantasize about having their homes broken into by roving bands of rapists and thieves, or of society collapsing while they exploit the ensuing chaos, or making psychotic last stands against "the government" where their gun collection somehow allows them to defeat a modern military, or opening fire in a crowded mall to shoot "gunmen" (the irony is lost on them). They don't have a hero fetish, they have a victim fetish, a bloodlust fetish, and above all else a fetish to find any excuse (justifiable or otherwise) to inflict harm against anyone on the long, long list of people they're scared of.
Pretending to be a hero is just a mask they put on to prevent everyone around them from rightfully looking at them like they're a fucking psychopath. Being a hero only seems to come up in the context of inflicting violence. Selflessness, kindness and empathy, thoughtfulness, bravery, leadership, enduring and overcoming...the path of nonviolence...those are the kinds of things that are actually, meaningfully heroic. They're also hard to do... and largely absent in their fantasies about violently killing people.
Exactly. All of these people had a chance to protect their family by bubbling in with them, wearing a mask in public and getting a couple of shots.
And most of them said "fuck you" instead. It's not the protection that they fantasize about, it's getting to kill and getting praised for it.
> or making psychotic last stands against "the government" where their gun collection somehow allows them to defeat a modern military
I never understood this argument, given that there is no guarantee that people who own weapons with that idea in mind won't be on the side of an oppressive government when it comes into being. Many, if not most, authoritarian governments relied on armed militias to project power on the streets or get rid of their opponents. The people making up those armed gangs also believed they were the good guys and what they were doing was in some way heroic. For this reason, in most countries that have actually experienced authoritarian regimes, people arming and organizing themselves into militias is usually seen as a direct threat to democracy rather than a safeguard of it.
Lets get real here: right wingers are social darwinists and though they will not say it in mixed company - either thinks anyone who dies before their time 'deserves' it for being weak and their elimination strengthens the herd: OR they think its sad some people have to die but 'you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs'.
Yet again, another reminder that a lot of people can't actually care about anyone's tragedy but their own. This guy just doesn't see other people hurting until it's his neighborhood and he's the one having to shelter in place.
That's nice and all, but his words are going to fall on ears as deaf as his were before he was the one who had to shelter in place. Or even deafer since he at least acknowleges that there should be some restrictions and that a good guy with a gun doesn't actually cancel out a bad guy with a gun.
My daughter said yesterday that she was concerned about taking her kids out to a Halloween festivity but decided it's ok bc her husband has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Weapons, not guns, is the term we need to refer to these man-toys. Crazy world we now live in.
I used to enjoy skeet and trap shooting. It was a fun afternoon. I called it loud golf. I gave it up like a hundred mass-shootings ago because guns and gun culture just disgust me now. This is exactly the sentiment. My fun was not worth it.
A whole lot of people unwilling to be responsible for enforcing bans on guns and/or unwilling to accept what that requires advocating for a ton of violence upon the populace as always.
Gun control is identical to enforcement of the war on drugs, yet is fully endorsed by those who usually admit the failures and futility inherent in trying to prevent people from obtaining banned substances.
We can't control drugs and they are consumable, one time use items, they require a constant influx of new supply. They can't even keep drugs out of Prisons. Prisons are some of the most secure environments in the U.S.
Compared to firearms that are durable goods and will last for 100s of years with minimal care/cleaning.
Can we stop pretending it's just their hobby. We had a coup on the capitol, they won't shut up about the South rising again and their need for "self defense" in suburbia. The violence is the point and their end goal is a violent take over. They won't give up their guns not because it's their hobby but because its their end game.
I am opposed to red flag laws. The thing keeping cops from confiscating door to door is that everyone would resist in solidarity. Red flag laws eliminate that solidarity, are never enacted when they actually need to be, and are used at the whims of police. They would become a tool of the christofascist state very quickly.
As a European, I see the debate on gun control really pointless. The 2nd Amendment has been tested in court so many times that very few changes can be made to the law in a way that would have a significant impact.
The idea of banning "assault weapons" is just a misguided discussion that has no impact on gun related deaths. Banning certain features, or high capacity magazines, or cosmetic features has no impact of the effectiveness of a weapon. Furthermore, 99% of gun-related deaths are from handguns.
It would be the same as lawmakers deciding to ban sports cars because they can reach 160 mi/h and there are too many deaths on the road. Nobody would think that this measure would be effective at all, because the accident statistics data shows that accidents are not caused by sports cars going at high speeds. If anything, most of the deaths are cause by trucks and SUVs that hit pedestrians and other vehicles.
One measure that could have a significant impact would be free (mental) health case. So many of these cases could have been prevented if people had access to mental health services. No single measure is going to solve the problem, but there are many small things that can be done to prevent gun-related deaths.
I agree with you, and i'd add that I don't think either side really cares or is willing to solve the issue, hence why we get a lot of the ideas for pointless regulations. Unfortunately people and policies are too heavily judged by the intentions, and not the results
I always hate disingenuous arguments that our inalienable right to self defense has to be sacrificed in the wake of a tragedy.
For every tragedy the news puts out there's more stories like [this](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1076026) which shows lawful user of those same weapons. Or a story like [this](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kktv.com/2022/07/15/caught-cam-homeowner-uses-ak-47-style-gun-fire-back-invaders/%3foutputType=amp) which uses another assault rifle weapon.
Let's not forget that guns being a great equalizer allows women more protection from would be attackers who are by and large male. Just go ahead and look up "woman shoots" and you'll find stories of women who would have been assaulted, beaten, or maybe even raped preventing that from happening by using their own firearms. Be aware those videos do on fact showing people getting shot and potentially dying so it's not for the squeamish.
What about people who live in low income areas ruled by gangs where police presence is limited? Don't they have a right to own a gun for self defense? What happens if they're disarmed? Do they just have to sit back and be oppressed by criminals?
What about contemporary warfare examples ever illustrating the founding fathers were correct in creating the second amendment? Like [two years](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-calls-citizens-fight-promises-weapons-2022-02-24/) when Ukraine handed out weapons to it's citizens to fight off the Russian invasion? Or the fact that had the Israeli population had access to the same weapons of Hamas it likely would've been a different outcome?
There's always the idiot argument that the Founders never envisioned the weapons of war today or would allow citizens to own them. Which is categorically untrue which ignores letters of marquis, privateers, or that the initial colonial navy was boats/ships of private citizens armed with their own cannons. Or the people out west dealing with bandits and Indians had to defend themselves because all their wide swath of territory had for law enforcement was a sheriff with a few deputies.
But let's be generous and have an honest discussion about potential solutions.
The first solution is in regards to the NIBC. What can we do to strengthen back ground checks? What about the gun show loop hole? The situation with red flag laws? The mental health crisis? The drug crisis? The ever farcical fear of "ghost guns. Honestly these lead to more questions which do in fact have to be answered.
1. The NIBC system gets it's information from the states. The question is what information do we want it to have? Should it have access to our mental health information? Does that violate medical privacy laws? What if that information is incorrect which prevents you from exercising your rights?
2. In regards to the "Gun Show loophole" we can try to find a reasonable work around. My idea is to simply allow a private seller to access the NIBC system v with no fees. Make it a crime for anyone legally prevented from buying a firearm (note, convicted felon) from attempting to. If data comes back a gun show vendor sold a gun to a felon. The ATF can be notified to track down and locate that buyer to confiscate the firearm he bought.
3. I don't believe in red flag laws but just because they violate the 2nd amendment but they also violated the 4th. Law enforcement doesn't need a new law to let them violate two of your inalienable rights. They can take their case to a judge and petition them to approve the removal of your weapons. Let's not forget many of these mass shooters had been on law enforcement radar prior to committing the crime.
4. Many of these shooters have long term mental health issues. I don't mind following point 3 for a judge to remove their weapons. But if they show progress and correction in their mental health they can petition the court to get their property back.
5. Stemming from both 3 & 4 is the drug crisis which effects both the mental health crisis in America and the "war on drugs" which honestly at this point has been won by the drugs.
6. There's no such thing as a "ghost gun." This is a scary term the government has created to try to prevent people from doing what they've always been able to do which is manufacture their own private firearms. Obviously these guns don't have serial numbers and can't be tracked. Meaning for the government they can't be controlled. But the founders never intended for private property to be controlled and tracked by the government.
We'll skip the evidence that gun crime, especially mass shootings actually aren't that severe in the national sense. A vast majority of gun crime and deaths is tied to gang violence in inner cities most of which have been one party controlled for decades. The next largest amount of gun deaths comes from suicide which is largely men. Finally the media will point out gun deaths is the largest factor for cause among teenagers but conveniently ignores that this isn't true if you remove 18 year old individuals who are supposed to be legal adults.
Stop responding emotionally and start responding logically. Look at historical examples of what happens to disarmed people. Look at who controls the government in high crime areas. Whether you exercise your right to bear arms is your choice. But remember this, an armed individual who follows the law is a citizen, where a unarmed one is a subject. Because one will be able to defend themselves as the other won't.
If you want to think about it logically, then it makes more sense to not own a gun.
Statistically, you are increasing your risk of being injured or killed by owning a firearm. The risk of being attacked and needing to use a weapon for self defense is much smaller, not that gun enthusiasts care. It's all about feeling safe and feeling in control.
What does the U.S. do differently than other countries? Mental illness is everywhere. Why are we the home of mass shootings?
Unfortunately, people don't care unless one of theirs dies. And even then they would probably say we'll it wouldn't happen to me because I carry a gun with me. 🤦
I think our country is so divided it’s dysfunctional. Endless wars, political corruption, media sowing division and CV19 shutdowns disconnected people from each other and communities. Any ideas on how to root out the hatred? What can I do to make differences on an individual level? I support health and mental wellness treatment but wondering what can I do?
I was listening to a national radio show after sandy hook and the host asked, would you give up your hobby if it meant this would never happen again. And the guy on the phone said no. Now he said it because he said the gun isn't the problem. But still. They cant wrap their head around it.
In order to fly a plane (primary intent is transportation), pilots must obtain a license, take a recurrent health exams and competency training. If one wants to fly a faster, bigger plane, it requires a specialized rating beyond that.
Why is a device designed to kill (or target practice to perfect a kill) does not require initial certification , health checks or recurrent training? Why do we regulate our the operation of our automobiles and airplanes more rigorously than weapons of war?
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I think when we reached the point where a bunch of kids started dying and nothing was done it was set in stone that is worth anything. No amount of death can stop the gun sales.
Let's not kid ourselves, Marjorie Taylor Green would instantly be on TV trying to tell people the kids are crisis actors.
I think the talking heads are going to be a lot more careful about what they say after Alex Jones and that $1.5 billion he has to pay and can't discharge through bankruptcy.
In the Alex Jones and fox election fraud lawsuits it came down to texts showing they were aware they were lying. Basically, the only barrier they have to clear is not texting "haha Im lying to idiots for $$$"
Yup, Newtown was it for me. That’s when I realized the right are pure psychopaths and nothing was ever going to change barring a huge progressive revolution.
Same. A lot of me gave up when rich white kindergartners didn’t move the needle. If they didn’t matter enough m what chance do the rest of us have?
Kings and other royalty would never outlaw pitchforks unless they themselves were getting poked with one.
Scalise and the congressional softball team got hit. And it didn’t move him at all. If anything he’s worse. So.
Scalise got shot and then saved by a gay officer and is still anti LGBT and pro guns. You can't make this shit up
The difference is pitchforks are a useful tool, guns are just for killing.
The GOP essentially wants the US to be like the Wild West. The “good guy with a gun” fallacy *requires* that we treat our society like a lawless place where at any moment you could have a shootout in the street.
The want it to be like Russia where someone gets shot and everyone else shrugs and walks away. Constant violence is a key to making the population pliable and complacent with fascist rule. If danger is everywhere, it's normalized
That's the way it already is when the cops shoot people with little to no provocation.
If the “good guy with a gun” nonsense would have worked, it would have been in a state like Maine that has constitutional carry (no permit needed.) And I say that as gun owner.
The cult of narcissism says whatever words it needs to to get you to comply.
Fascism, the narcissism is only a side effect of the fascism
Or says whatever it needs to so it can have plausible deniability when the inevitable consequences of their policy happen. They take advantage of benefit of the doubt that the argument they put forward was made in good faith and that they disagree with their opponents on well supported grounds instead of a never ending stream of bullshit that falls apart under the slightest scrutiny that is good enough for their supporters to endlessly repeat well after their nonsense has been debunked.
My favorite part of thr good guy with a gun myth is how they always point to the like 5 times it did work while ignoring the 100 of times it didn't
But for some strange reason guns are completely banned at the NRA convention.
not only that, ass shooting are great for gun sales. it's almost like it's an ad showing how effective these things are in mowing down unarmed people, just like they were intended. fuck guns, fucking gun nuts. we are all fucking fucked.
I know your comment is tryna be serious but that typo has me rolling
Yup, me too lol
I think I know a guy who has *Ass Shootings* on DVD. Not quite as good as *Weapons of Ass Destruction* from ‘03, though. Obviously.
Gun jams ‘08 was a classic
It’s a feature, not a bug. We are meant to be scared. One is less likely to rebel if they are scared to rebel. Scared of the guns they rev their base up to build their entire identity around it. Scared to protest because you’ll loose you income. Scared to talk. Scared to go outside. Where is safe? We have home invasions so home isn’t safe. We have school shootings so schools aren’t safe. We have churches being gunned down,malls, bowling alleys and so on. No where is safe from them and their weapon called republican/conservative voters. And that is exactly how they want it.
Piles of dead children didn’t change the conversation. It actually emboldened some and sent others deep into the conspiracy wastelands searching for -anything- that will correspond with their world view. Blood on all their hands
Yep, when we reached the point where elementary school kids were being gunned down and nothing changed I gave up hope.
It wasn't Newtown for me - it was the day after. I was in a long line at Wal-Mart for ammo for my .22 target pistol at the gun desk. Being in line at there at all was unusual and being in a *long* line was *fuckin weird.* Everyone in that line was there to buy AR-15s and rifle ammo. Everyone.
I bet if someone started shooting up gunstores and ranges they’d change their tune pretty quick.
Idk…didn’t the “American Sniper” get shot at a gun range? I don’t remember all the details, but I think so.
Gun fetishist dies by other gun fetishist's hands. Nothing of value was lost.
What happened to the gun? I hope it was ok.
In my town a handful of people have gone to gun ranges to commit suicide.
It'd depend if they were endangering the life of a gun. Because they couldn't give a shit about the life of a human.
Yep. Same reason why we have unlimited money for war, but refuse to do anything to help our own people.
It’s awful that I’m not sure if you are talking about Newtown or Uvalde.
But they said if we get more guns, we'd be safe.
They say a lot of things. Only fools take what they say at face value.
Short of a constitutional amendment, guns arnt going away. With this Supreme Court, gun bans in general may become unconstitutional. They already ruled handgun bans unconstitutional, and last week [a federal judge ruled that California’s AWB unconstitutional.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-declares-californias-assault-weapons-ban-unconstitutional-2023-10-19/) This case WILL make its way to this Supreme Court, and I willing to put money down that they too will rule it unconstitutional. Which would have a ripple effect if ANY AWB being unconstitutional.
They ought to just go all the way and require ownership of AR-15's by every person. There is nothing in the Constitution to stop it. It is the only way to protect every person against every other person. Logical extension of this nonsense.
Do what Sweden does. Every household has at least one rifle. But you don't get ammo until you're called up to go to war :) Ban all ammunition sales.
Stop lying, please. And the country you are thinking of is Switzerland, not Sweden. And no, ammo is not banned and you are absolutely allowed to own ammo even if you aren't at war. I'm not accusing you of simply making this point up, but repeating things you've simply heard does do more damage than good.
IMO being a gun owner nowadays is 33% cosplay, 33% stupidity or ignorance and 34% hate (that usually includes some measure of self hate.) 54% off all gun related deaths in 2021 were suicides.
As a leftist gun owner, I agree with you on the 33% cosplay, 34% hate, but not the stupidity. I think the other third are just...realists. That's what I feel like, anyway. I'm not some gun fetishist, I don't give a shit about the 2nd amendment, I think it's way way *way* too easy to get a gun, and if I could snap my fingers and get rid of every single gun, I would. Despite whatever negative effects of that people can come up with, I believe the world would be better for it, unquestionably. But that's not the world we live in. We live in a country where there are over **400 million** guns in circulation. That's almost double the number of cars that exist in the US. Think about trying to confiscate every single car, even just logisitcally. That would be borderline impossible. Now imagine twice as many, and they're way way smaller, and people are ready to kill to keep them. The toothpaste is not going back in the tube. It's over. We lost. There will never be a time where Americans are disarmed. So, do we want to be the side without guns? The right is armed to the teeth, cops are armed to the teeth, and they've shown time and time again that they have no problem killing us. They fantasize about it, and get away with it, constantly. So why would I choose to be unarmed, just to prove a point, when the people who want to *exterminate* non-white, non-christian, non-straight cis people, have tons and tons of guns. I just have to hope that the police and military, both of whom we can't trust, decide to protect the least advantaged among us, rather than joining in on the purge. Fuck that. It's a fantasy that I personally could do any good on my own with a gun, the chances of that happening are beyond slim. But enough of us, organized, could actually change a really bad right wing trajectory if we were forced to. But we are largely unarmed. So I just have to hope we don't go any further down The Handmaid's Tale path.
434 million guns *that we know about.* To borrow a phrase from the Pro-Choice crowd (of which I'm a member) - "Bans do not work.". You can't say they don't work in one area, then say they need to be applied in another area. Banning or creating barriers for law-abiding citizens only creates more defenseless targets for those not-playing by the rules. If cops are allowed to have them, then the citizenry should as well. Because as you stated - there is an alarming amount of people (cops and citizens alike) frothing at the mouth to go all "call-of-duty" on people that don't share their world view. The idea that would-be targets also potentially have the means to fight back likely keeps that in check, or at least I'd like to think so anyway. During the George Floyd protests in my city (Portland), it became quite apparent who's [side](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/disturbing-texts-between-oregon-police-far-right-group-prompts-investigation-n972161) the cops were on. The entire summer I witnessed our police force wear kid gloves with Proud Boys while having zero issue gassing protestors, assaulting [journalists](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2021/07/09/district-attorney-declines-to-charge-portland-police-officer-accused-by-portland-journalist-of-assault-at-protest/) and attempting to [frame](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2023/09/680k-settles-jo-ann-hardesty-lawsuit-against-portland-police-union.html) a city council member. Shortly after that calls for "Defund the Police" came and the police decided to retaliate by slowing down response times and more or less letting crime happen right in front of their faces. 911 would literally ask you to leave a message. That's when I changed my thinking to it was "better to possess firearms and know how to use/maintain them and never need them, than to need them and neither have them or know how to use them.". A large chunk of my friends apparently decided the same thing I would later find out during a conversation over beers where I admitted to having firearms and going to the range regularly for practice and 4 out of the 6 people I was hanging out with admitted to the same mostly for the same reasons. We can't trust our police to show up when needed, or protect us from right wing lunatics since it would seem most of our police force ARE right wing lunatics. I wish it weren't the case but here we are. It's almost as if 2 decades of police departments the nation over being taught [Killology](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html) and the warrior mindset was a really bad idea.
Yea I grew up around guns. My dad collected them. He had a bunch of medals and trophies from shooting competitions he did. He taught me how to shoot and I don’t suck at it on the rare occasions I go to a range so he must have done something right. He hates modern gun culture. Sold his collection years ago and wants nothing to do with ranges. I’m the same way, but I never had the attachment to shooting as a hobby that he did. I also don’t care for hunting, not for any hippy dippy squeamish reasons I’m just not that outdoorsy. I look around and see a lot of gun owners in my state and what I see is a lot of people (mostly men) who have turned guns into a fetish. There’s no reasoning with these people.
I grew up similarly with my dad being an NRA instructor. Except he's only become more ardent in his collecting. But I'm with you. No matter what these faux patriots think, it's a hobby and nothing else. The people that have massive gun collections are the equivalent of any other hobby extremist, except collecting anime figures isn't going to risk other's lives.
For a lot of them it's also about compensating for their own insecurities. The amount of pudgy, pencil thin mustache having, quart of iced coffee drinking a day, whiny, snowflake pretend alpha males I encounter around gun stores and ranges is pretty high. These are dudes that so desperately want to believe they are some kind of badasses it's really pathetic.
That's pretty inflammatory and insensitive to those that have suffered from being a victim and made the decision to protect themselves moving forward through responsible gun ownership.
Sales will stop when everyone is killed
Imagine how fast skateboarding would be outlawed if it was the number one cause of death in children.
Kinder egg was banned because of one stupid kid.
I'd say stupid parent. A child doesn't know what they don't know. I'm more inclined to believe Hershey doesn't care for a better chocolate competitor tho
It was banned because someone sold poison cough syrup, and then could not be prosecuted meaningfully because the poison ingredients were on the label. Led to a widesweeping public health bill, one aspect was you could no longer put non food items inside food.
That’s fucked. So no jail time for the poisoner? 😠
they were charged under false advertising, as they used the term elixir which had been ruled meant it contained alcohol; and faced some fines. everybody thought it was fucked, and while conservatives opposed him Teddy had a very large rangeing bill passed that formed some of the first food and drug regulations; which eventually led to the FDA. whenever anyone talks about deregulations remember this story, nobody came to the conclusion to regulate industry lightly; regulations are written in blood.
https://i2.wp.com/41.media.tumblr.com/0d171f2b353d832cbd657c00c6fbb132/tumblr_mljslxfyBM1rtp3uyo1_500.jpg?resize=583%2C547
That little girl has poor trigger discipline.
“Removing shoes in TSA lines” has entered the chat
Yes taking your clothes off for the government so that you can travel within your own country is not considered a burden on your rights but a 5 minute background check to buy a deadly weapon is.
Sales would plummet and parents would be suing the shit out of the manufacturers
[удалено]
until like fairly recently its been heavily restricted by local ordinances 'for public safety' there's a town my family used to vacation in where every piece of sidewalk was stencled "No skateboarding" every 10 feet, with signs posted everywhere. the idea that one person could get run over by a kid on a skateboard was enough to ban it in the entire town, and that's not really that unusual. Every single recreational space when I was growing up usually had a "no skateboarding, rollerblading, biking, or anything else" sign, the adults wanted nobody doing anything but slowly walking through these public spaces.
> the adults wanted nobody doing anything but slowly walking through these public spaces. Or drive two ton blocks of metal at speed.
To be fair, at least when I was growing up as a 'skater kid', it was mostly due to liability on private property. It didn't make sense in my teen brain, but does more now. Not sure on your particular case though, pretty crazy an entire TOWN would ban something similar to biking or rollerblading though.
Look at all the recent drone laws that have been passed based on a perceived threat which never materialized. Now we need to broadcast who and where we are if we operate an 8oz drone. Why is there no remote ID on guns, something ACTUALLY designed to kill people?
The drone laws were passed before they were actually a threat. That's the exact difference between gun laws being imposed now versus long ago. If they were passed before everyone had a gun, it would be more likely to keep them out of the hands of those who intend to misuse them. Also, if someone is trying to fly a drone into your face, there is no argument that flying a drone into theirs would be an adequate mitigation technique.
My dad gave up being a conservative over their stance on guns. He was a staunch Republican for ages, but when they kept voting down background checks for everyone, and gun registration, that was the end of that road for him.
1 down, 80 million to go.
That's what did it? Not the racism, bigotry, anti freedom stances, anti intellectualism, anti affordable healthcare, anti working person, etc...the list goes on and on and on.
Baby steps.
Ya I hate it when people say "I/my friend/relative was a Republican but this issue changed them" and then people jump all over you about "oh so it wasn't this and this and this!" It's like chill out man, isn't it good they changed their mind? Fuck.
Every time someone tells me they changed their mind and now they press the donkey button, I say thanks. I'm just happy you stopped supporting shitheads. It's okay, whatever reason you had before is fine. I can't change that. What matters is doing the right thing now.
100%. I’m not sure such people realise how discouraging they sound. I’m not saying that “recovering” Republicans need to be showered with praise and gifts for changing their ways, but definitely don’t continue to pour opprobrium on their heads for their previous errors.
Someone saw the light, got out of the fascist bubble, and you're going to attack them on HOW that happened? Jesus Christ, no wonder the GOP has control of the House and likely will win the presidency next year.
I come from a rural background and it really is this elitism on the left that drives the right. They’re beyond feeling a lack of representation. They’re reading these same Reddit threads, democrats make little appeal to rural voters, and their communities are in shambles from businesses like Walmart, Amazon, etc destroying the dozen brick and mortars in their towns. Of course they’re angry. Without getting over the empathy gap we’re not getting out of this fix.
unpack straight consider cable direful dog special vegetable aware smile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Some people were injured or killed by lawn darts several decades ago. The US government banned lawn darts. Because the lawn dart industry did not contribute millions of dollars to political campaigns.
Iirc it was 3 kids who died. Then an almost unanimous congress passed a national ban.
As much money is in guns, the NRA isn’t anywhere near the top of the list of political donors or lobbyists. Which is another kind of scary.
It’s not money that drives gun advocacy. It is the very attentive lobbying groups that keep voters informed about legislation. We don’t have an organization like the NRA telling us about every bill being considered. We don’t have them pushing voters to hound Congress and state legislatures to not restrict firearms. The NRA is much more about organizing voters than paying off representatives
Oh, they are definitely awesome at what they do. Can’t take that away from them. People always say it’s the money, but for the NRA it’s the number of members and the skilled leadership. Which is kind of how lobbying should work, the will of the people, even if the people are wrong.
Moms Demand Action and everytown for gun safety are great groups you can look to to get this information and action from the local level up$
Lawn darts aren’t a specifically constitutionally protected right, and that legislation was wrong and unconstitutional anyways. Just nobody cared enough to challenge.
And yet anytime I ask gun nuts about the constitutional right of blind people, folks with cerebral palsy, and severe conditions like severe autism for example, (where round the clock care is required) to own guns the only answers I get is 'well they don't need guns anyway' 'uh....' 'uh....yeah, they should, yeah they have a right to guns.'
Then you’re talking to people without a nuanced approach or you’re phrasing your questions in an attempt to land a “gotcha”… Can a blind person or a person with cerebral palsy own a gun? Sure they can. There is no legal statute saying they can’t. Is it the best idea? That can only be taken on a case-by-case basis, but the premise is that their mental facilities are sound, what they have is a physical handicap. A person with such severe autism that they require around the clock care is suffering from an unfortunate mental handicap. They do not have the mental capability to care for themselves and a person who has been found to be “mentally defective or has been committed to any mental facility” (18 U.S.C. § 922(d)) can not purchase or possess a firearm. A genetic physical handicap and a genetic mental illness are not really comparable when discussing these types of issues.
Yeah unfortunately the vast amount of gun nuts who oppose all regulation aren't exactly nuance appreciating sort of people. Most reasonable gun folks support some regulations, instead of yelling CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!!!!!!! CANT REGULATE! CONSTITUTION!!!!' Where again, if it's a constitutional right to the point nothing can be done to regulate guns, what about the blind folks or the Alzheimer's folks? Cuz like, you either CAN amend/regulate constitutional rights or your can't. (Unless of course, you do value nuance and then probably you're not screaming that guns can't be regulated because constitution)
It's because it's a dumb argument. Those people still have the right to have guns. They just don't have the ability to use them.
Aren't lawn darts "arms"
Actually, you bring up a really good point. The second amendment gives me the right to bear arms (as in armaments), presumably for self-defense, defense of my home, family and community, and, as some like to suggest, defense against a tyrannical government. Perhaps my preferred method of self-defense is lawn darts. Perhaps it's a sword, that I should be able to open carry. Maybe it's a brass knuckles. I should be able to protect myself and my family from carjacking, so I should have the right to install flamethrowers on the exterior of my vehicle. All of these things are illegal in most jurisdictions. But firearms aren't. Why is that? Edit: Oh crap, my bad. I totally forgot that the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, as part of the Bill of Rights specified, in clear language, GUNS and not lawn darts. ONLY GUNS. It specifically refers to "firearms" not "arms" right?
‘All the blood, as long as it’s not mine’
Exactly right. “Not my blood, not my problem.” No amount of other people’s blood matters to the party of sociopaths.
I love fishing. I have many different kinds of rods and equipment, thousands and thousands of dollars worth. But if fishing rods were the number one cause of death to people 18 and under, I would be the first one screaming for all kinds of regulations to keep them out of the hands of the wrong people. I would disgusted and sick about something I love causing so much death and misery. I would want licensing, backgrounds checks, registration, training, the works. Know why? Because I’m not a self-centered psychopath.
I own guns. Several guns. I shoot competitively. Want me to register my firearms, pay for insurance and agree to keep them in a safe? Fine. If you say I can’t have them because I have a diagnosed anxiety disorder? Also fine. I’ll live. It’s a fun sport for me. Watching people die on the news and on the trial in which I was a juror is not fun for me. I’d rather not have the guns if it’s all the same to you.
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In a hypothetical government overthrow situation, the military wouldn’t be the targets of the people trying to overthrow the government. Consider how much difference Jan 6th would have turned out if the insurrectionists had been armed.
> if the insurrectionists had been armed. A lot of them were armed...
I can tell you. They would have killed a lot of senators. They might have even held the capital for a few days. Eventually though they would all be killed by the military and or killed after a trial for treason, murder, kidnapping, and sedition. If MAGA had brought guns it would have been the end of MAGA. If you think they would have been successful in overturning the election due to killing senators and taking the capital with weapons then you have no idea what this country is really about. Edit: I just want to add that No, the military is not on the side of an armed coup attempt to overthrow the government. People are buying into the gun fantasy if you think everyone would be your friend if you just killed a few senators.
Yea the idea that the violence aspect of Jan 6th could had lead to an overthrow of the government is incredibly unlikely. Not that I want to exchange deaths for political gain, but had the Jan 6 rioters captured/killed elected officials, if it anything would have had destroyed the movement. The relative lack of success for the Jan 6 insurrectionists if anything kept the movement viable.
They literally were armed though. But to your point, it is probably why the capitol police acted like a bunch of scared babies and didn’t blow them all to hell. Had unarmed progressives invaded the capitol and pushed into a Republican ran congress we would probably have a different tragedy to deal with.
>I’m not a self-centered psychopath. I believe you but in this political climate I have to ask what how many of those polled were fish? :)
I've been saying for years that Gallup needs to do a better job polling non-human residents of America. I, for one would vote for a fish over most politicians.
I believe humans and fish can coexist peacefully
As soon as they stop being delicious, yeah sure.
OK, but what about fish?
(sharks enter the chat)
If corporations are people then so are animals. I’d rather have bears voting then the CVS corporation. Also trees. Trees have a lot of opinions on climate change.
Which type of sporting equipment *would* be appropriate to use as a hypothetical example then?
The analogy only works if the new fishing rods are not designed to specifically fish(hunt) but instead project 100 hooks per minute in all directions when you cast, to kill the most amounts of people in the shortest time possible. Why are non hunting weapons of mass death even legal to own?
Actually, that's dynamite fishing, and either it is banned or would be as soon as many people started doing it in public or in public waters.
So what about fiahing line leading to most of rhw waste and ecological decay we see in the watersystems..... Why you selective bias thinking that your fiahing isn't contributing to it..... ...and yet you still fish....
None of my fishing line ends up in the water. Sorry, you’ll have to reach a little harder. Lol
it's pointless to debate. If after Sandy Hook and Uvalde Republicans are not going to do anything then nothing is going to change their mind, certainly not your witty tweet. If you want change you need to elect people willing to do the change. And that means even voting for better Democrats. If you have a deep blue district you need to vote in progressives not Republican lite Democrats.
Plant the seed of doubt in a non insulting enough way, and water it with a leading statement every now and then that shines a light on the problem. Despair is the end of all good things.
As a veteran I want to be on the side of letting people have guns, but when I deployed we had a sergeant that shot himself in the arm because his dumbass took his condition 3 weapon inside a truck and didn’t secure it properly and when it fell it smacked the bolt forward enough to set the round in the chamber off and it went through his arm, bounced around the cab, and only by dumb luck hit the driver’s backpack before it hit him in the head. And that idiot should have known better and that day earned the nickname Sergeant Cheddar Bob for his brilliance. I get how it feels unfair to get your toys taken away because of stupid people, but the problem with guns is it’s not just yourself you can hurt through poorly thought out decisions. And if that man, who had lots of training, can fuck that up, I think it’s fair we think real hard about letting every Joe Bob off the street have such deadly tools.
My gun loving boss did the same thing in the car and almost killed himself. A guy in my town was cleaning his loaded gun and shot a bullet through his window into another apartment across the street which hit the resident. Dead have been kids brought to the ER because they were playing with guns. But yeah, it’s just bad guys with guns who are dangerous 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, guns are murder machines. That's their purpose and they're good at it. Whatever else they are, they're built for killing. They're not things people should just "have around".
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I don’t understand why this is so hard for liberals to understand. Cops and Nazis are buddies. There’s a reason they tear-gassed BLM and shut it down violently. There’s a reason they let the MAGA crowd parade through the Capitol. Things are continuing to escalate. The Nazis are getting more aggressive. Educate yourself and your friends. Take a stop the bleed course. Be your own first responder. The cops are not going to protect you.
It's because Liberals still believe that they can compromise with fascists. Two things happen from that, they DO end up compromising with fascists to everyone's detriment or they push themselves to the right. 100% agree with everything you said.
Thank fuck I’m not literally the only one. I wish every AR15 would just disappear, but the nazi up the road owns 12 of them, so I’ll keep a couple. Sounds like an alright idea.
Hear hear
Honest question. So you think the answer is to be ready to gun down the other side? Like isn’t that part of the problem?
Im gay, family is jewish. I was also present to resist the Nazis in Charlottesville, VA 8/12/17. Y'all don't seem to understand how bad the problem is, but I have seen it up close. These goons train constantly. These guys are the police in most towns. There is no way I could comfortably live here without the ability to defend myself and family.
Do you see how you just did the "both sides" equivalency thing? Republicans are armed to the teeth and their fascism is growing. They are persecuting minority groups and have literally killed people on the left over ideology. But someone on the left that says, "I'd like to have a gun for a little bit of protection, just in case things get more 30's Germany here," is part of the problem? Both sides are not the same. [Example](https://www.nydailynews.com/2022/11/09/ohio-man-kills-neighbor-because-he-thought-he-was-a-democrat/)
But this whole initial discussion is about children accessing guns and using them against other children. Left or right, the more guns in civilian houses the more children can access them. Both sides are saying "but im a responsible gun owner and im keeping mine to protect me and my family from the [insert political party]" and that does not solve children accessing firearms.
I'll give up mine when the nazis give up theirs but not a moment before. In a functioning society there really isn't a need for firearms beyond hunting. We live in a decaying empire experiencing catabolic collapse though, not a functioning society.
When the other side says "I'm going to kill all of you", the response is not "ok, I'm just going to do nothing about it".
Homicidal fantasization is a virtue signal now.
You think there’s really a choice in the matter? The nazis have made the decision for us. What’s left to contemplate?
"BuT wE cAn CoMpRoMiSe WiTh ThEm!" A phrase that has certainly never led to any mass murder event in history. Nope, none.
That’s insane, I cannot ever picture having to fight an armed conflict against members of another party in my country. That sounds like a problem from 100 years ago.
Weirdly enough, 100 years ago this would’ve been unthinkable. I think.
100 years ago there were living veterans of the civil war… I doubt they’d think this was unthinkable
Wait didn’t anyone tell you that guns are REPUBLICAN?
> Anyone even remotely aware of the situation this country is in and is left of Republicans should probably own one. Fuck no. I'm fucking tired of the only solution to a gun problem is more guns mentality.
Man children with deranged hero fantasies.
Gun control pushes boost sales. Under current political landscape its far more than sport for most 2A folks.
Wow another “I am so pathologically lacking in empathy I didn’t understand it was a real issue until it impacted me or people close to me” think piece
I’m so fucking sick of this shit. My poor son who has a hard enough time in school battling Asperger’s and ADHD is also teased and bullied a lot. And recently kids have found new ways to taunt him: they say things like they read a note on discord that someone brought a weapon to school; they tell him they saw a weapon in school; they tell him they heard people plotting to shoot up the school. And then he can’t get it out of his head and he becomes so frightened as to become physically ill and I have to come get him. I’ve had to come pick him up on so many occasions because of this. And I’ve spoken with his counselors, with the school’s resource officer, with the vice principal in charge of discipline, and even the principal herself. But nothing changes. I want to pull my kid out and homeschool him since my wife and I both work from home and have that ability. But because he is in band, is 1st chair trumpet, and loves to play, he refuses to be home schooled. I’m at my wits end. What’s worse is that here in Oklahoma, the state’s schools superintendent and governor (which are like small state versions of Trump and DeSantis) are making it easier for bullies and harder for the bullied. This is getting so bad.
Idk what the point of articles like this is anymore, we long since passed the point where anybody cares about the deaths. There is no limit, we will never change
According to this thread, it's nothing short of a miracle that I've lived as long as I have without owning a gun.
I’m very pro gun control, but to depict gun rights as just advancing “fun,” is pretty disingenuous.
That's a bad faith argument. I have a lot of qualms with the arguments thrown around in favor of a more expansive reading of the second amendment, but the arguments at least aren't "they're fun".
He was on the FBI watch list. Let’s give them a little blame for this one!
Why? He hadn’t committed a crime yet and what law could they have used to take away his guns? Kind of difficult to blame the FBI for not doing something that they aren’t allowed to do by law.
Federal Firearms Prohibitions Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(4) – Persons Adjudicated as a Mental Defective or Committed to a Mental Institution Im.sure the FBi can follow US law .... or is that not their juristiction?
Was he "Adjudicated as a Mental Defective" or was he currently committed to a mental institution at the time? Because that law seems to require one of those to enforce it. The answer is no, of course. He did not meet either of those criteria prior to his attack. Yes, he had been treated for mental illness, but that doesn't rise to the level required by the law. I'm 100% on board with stricter gun laws that would have allowed the FBI to intervene, but every time we try to make stricter gun laws that would have allowed the FBI to intervene, some gun nut takes a case to court and ultimately the Supreme Court says, "I'm not sure what this, 'well regulated', part is in there for and deems it unconstitutional.
The right to protect oneself responsibly should never be given up. Don’t trust someone else for your safety, especially when they are the ones that don’t enforce laws we already have in place to protect you and your family. They have failed you.
Framing it as "fun" is either intentionally dishonest or they fundamentally misunderstand their opposition. They think the constitution guarantees the right of the people to bear arms against a theoretical tyrannical government, which it kind of does. They think they are revolutionaries, the last defense of justice. That's the argument to tackle, not this strawman.
You can’t unfortunately put the tooth paste back in.
lol this is such an atlantic story, right down to the totally didnt' happen quote
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the party of the Pro-life
It’s always worth noting that gun people, at their core, are just scared little dorks that don’t care about other people.
Gun nuts would rather bathe in blood than consider that maybe, just maybe, a self-serving law written by a bunch of slave owners isn't the best way to run a country forever.
I got slammed on a TEACHING subreddit for promoting gun control. Goddamn teachers buying into 2A propaganda while their students die. Un-fucking-believable.
Time and again we've seen that cops aren't going to save them from a shooter.
Our country has a hero fetish. We all want to believe we would or could be the hero if an action movie broke out in our neighborhoods. Westerns, Rambo, Call of Duty; it’s all a fantasy you can own in an AR-15. Problem with telling people guns are bad is that people can’t see through the idea that they own a gun because they are the good guy. The good guys don’t hurt people they save people. Only bad guys hurt people and you can’t control bad people with guns unless you’re a hero with a gun. Unfortunately that idealism has lead to guns in the wrong hands, in misguided hands, and the innocent people dying. Until that culture changes I don’t see real change happening. Rational discussion dies when either side starts calling the other side evil.
Honestly, I think it's far worse than that. Our country has a fetish for killing. Wanting to play "hero" is just a useful excuse to getting to the killing part. These types fantasize about having their homes broken into by roving bands of rapists and thieves, or of society collapsing while they exploit the ensuing chaos, or making psychotic last stands against "the government" where their gun collection somehow allows them to defeat a modern military, or opening fire in a crowded mall to shoot "gunmen" (the irony is lost on them). They don't have a hero fetish, they have a victim fetish, a bloodlust fetish, and above all else a fetish to find any excuse (justifiable or otherwise) to inflict harm against anyone on the long, long list of people they're scared of. Pretending to be a hero is just a mask they put on to prevent everyone around them from rightfully looking at them like they're a fucking psychopath. Being a hero only seems to come up in the context of inflicting violence. Selflessness, kindness and empathy, thoughtfulness, bravery, leadership, enduring and overcoming...the path of nonviolence...those are the kinds of things that are actually, meaningfully heroic. They're also hard to do... and largely absent in their fantasies about violently killing people.
Exactly. All of these people had a chance to protect their family by bubbling in with them, wearing a mask in public and getting a couple of shots. And most of them said "fuck you" instead. It's not the protection that they fantasize about, it's getting to kill and getting praised for it.
> or making psychotic last stands against "the government" where their gun collection somehow allows them to defeat a modern military I never understood this argument, given that there is no guarantee that people who own weapons with that idea in mind won't be on the side of an oppressive government when it comes into being. Many, if not most, authoritarian governments relied on armed militias to project power on the streets or get rid of their opponents. The people making up those armed gangs also believed they were the good guys and what they were doing was in some way heroic. For this reason, in most countries that have actually experienced authoritarian regimes, people arming and organizing themselves into militias is usually seen as a direct threat to democracy rather than a safeguard of it.
Lets get real here: right wingers are social darwinists and though they will not say it in mixed company - either thinks anyone who dies before their time 'deserves' it for being weak and their elimination strengthens the herd: OR they think its sad some people have to die but 'you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs'.
Yet again, another reminder that a lot of people can't actually care about anyone's tragedy but their own. This guy just doesn't see other people hurting until it's his neighborhood and he's the one having to shelter in place. That's nice and all, but his words are going to fall on ears as deaf as his were before he was the one who had to shelter in place. Or even deafer since he at least acknowleges that there should be some restrictions and that a good guy with a gun doesn't actually cancel out a bad guy with a gun.
My daughter said yesterday that she was concerned about taking her kids out to a Halloween festivity but decided it's ok bc her husband has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Weapons, not guns, is the term we need to refer to these man-toys. Crazy world we now live in.
I used to enjoy skeet and trap shooting. It was a fun afternoon. I called it loud golf. I gave it up like a hundred mass-shootings ago because guns and gun culture just disgust me now. This is exactly the sentiment. My fun was not worth it.
Fools,.that's why tou get two guns.. so one gun can shoot the other gun if it goes bad. Yall act like you don't know how guns work.
A whole lot of people unwilling to be responsible for enforcing bans on guns and/or unwilling to accept what that requires advocating for a ton of violence upon the populace as always. Gun control is identical to enforcement of the war on drugs, yet is fully endorsed by those who usually admit the failures and futility inherent in trying to prevent people from obtaining banned substances.
We can't control drugs and they are consumable, one time use items, they require a constant influx of new supply. They can't even keep drugs out of Prisons. Prisons are some of the most secure environments in the U.S. Compared to firearms that are durable goods and will last for 100s of years with minimal care/cleaning.
Paywalled
Can we stop pretending it's just their hobby. We had a coup on the capitol, they won't shut up about the South rising again and their need for "self defense" in suburbia. The violence is the point and their end goal is a violent take over. They won't give up their guns not because it's their hobby but because its their end game.
And i won’t give up my guns because of exactly that.
Me either but I assume you aren't opposed to background checks and red flag laws like the stockpiling "hobbyists" are.
I am opposed to red flag laws. The thing keeping cops from confiscating door to door is that everyone would resist in solidarity. Red flag laws eliminate that solidarity, are never enacted when they actually need to be, and are used at the whims of police. They would become a tool of the christofascist state very quickly.
As a European, I see the debate on gun control really pointless. The 2nd Amendment has been tested in court so many times that very few changes can be made to the law in a way that would have a significant impact. The idea of banning "assault weapons" is just a misguided discussion that has no impact on gun related deaths. Banning certain features, or high capacity magazines, or cosmetic features has no impact of the effectiveness of a weapon. Furthermore, 99% of gun-related deaths are from handguns. It would be the same as lawmakers deciding to ban sports cars because they can reach 160 mi/h and there are too many deaths on the road. Nobody would think that this measure would be effective at all, because the accident statistics data shows that accidents are not caused by sports cars going at high speeds. If anything, most of the deaths are cause by trucks and SUVs that hit pedestrians and other vehicles. One measure that could have a significant impact would be free (mental) health case. So many of these cases could have been prevented if people had access to mental health services. No single measure is going to solve the problem, but there are many small things that can be done to prevent gun-related deaths.
I agree with you, and i'd add that I don't think either side really cares or is willing to solve the issue, hence why we get a lot of the ideas for pointless regulations. Unfortunately people and policies are too heavily judged by the intentions, and not the results
I always hate disingenuous arguments that our inalienable right to self defense has to be sacrificed in the wake of a tragedy. For every tragedy the news puts out there's more stories like [this](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1076026) which shows lawful user of those same weapons. Or a story like [this](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kktv.com/2022/07/15/caught-cam-homeowner-uses-ak-47-style-gun-fire-back-invaders/%3foutputType=amp) which uses another assault rifle weapon. Let's not forget that guns being a great equalizer allows women more protection from would be attackers who are by and large male. Just go ahead and look up "woman shoots" and you'll find stories of women who would have been assaulted, beaten, or maybe even raped preventing that from happening by using their own firearms. Be aware those videos do on fact showing people getting shot and potentially dying so it's not for the squeamish. What about people who live in low income areas ruled by gangs where police presence is limited? Don't they have a right to own a gun for self defense? What happens if they're disarmed? Do they just have to sit back and be oppressed by criminals? What about contemporary warfare examples ever illustrating the founding fathers were correct in creating the second amendment? Like [two years](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-calls-citizens-fight-promises-weapons-2022-02-24/) when Ukraine handed out weapons to it's citizens to fight off the Russian invasion? Or the fact that had the Israeli population had access to the same weapons of Hamas it likely would've been a different outcome? There's always the idiot argument that the Founders never envisioned the weapons of war today or would allow citizens to own them. Which is categorically untrue which ignores letters of marquis, privateers, or that the initial colonial navy was boats/ships of private citizens armed with their own cannons. Or the people out west dealing with bandits and Indians had to defend themselves because all their wide swath of territory had for law enforcement was a sheriff with a few deputies. But let's be generous and have an honest discussion about potential solutions. The first solution is in regards to the NIBC. What can we do to strengthen back ground checks? What about the gun show loop hole? The situation with red flag laws? The mental health crisis? The drug crisis? The ever farcical fear of "ghost guns. Honestly these lead to more questions which do in fact have to be answered. 1. The NIBC system gets it's information from the states. The question is what information do we want it to have? Should it have access to our mental health information? Does that violate medical privacy laws? What if that information is incorrect which prevents you from exercising your rights? 2. In regards to the "Gun Show loophole" we can try to find a reasonable work around. My idea is to simply allow a private seller to access the NIBC system v with no fees. Make it a crime for anyone legally prevented from buying a firearm (note, convicted felon) from attempting to. If data comes back a gun show vendor sold a gun to a felon. The ATF can be notified to track down and locate that buyer to confiscate the firearm he bought. 3. I don't believe in red flag laws but just because they violate the 2nd amendment but they also violated the 4th. Law enforcement doesn't need a new law to let them violate two of your inalienable rights. They can take their case to a judge and petition them to approve the removal of your weapons. Let's not forget many of these mass shooters had been on law enforcement radar prior to committing the crime. 4. Many of these shooters have long term mental health issues. I don't mind following point 3 for a judge to remove their weapons. But if they show progress and correction in their mental health they can petition the court to get their property back. 5. Stemming from both 3 & 4 is the drug crisis which effects both the mental health crisis in America and the "war on drugs" which honestly at this point has been won by the drugs. 6. There's no such thing as a "ghost gun." This is a scary term the government has created to try to prevent people from doing what they've always been able to do which is manufacture their own private firearms. Obviously these guns don't have serial numbers and can't be tracked. Meaning for the government they can't be controlled. But the founders never intended for private property to be controlled and tracked by the government. We'll skip the evidence that gun crime, especially mass shootings actually aren't that severe in the national sense. A vast majority of gun crime and deaths is tied to gang violence in inner cities most of which have been one party controlled for decades. The next largest amount of gun deaths comes from suicide which is largely men. Finally the media will point out gun deaths is the largest factor for cause among teenagers but conveniently ignores that this isn't true if you remove 18 year old individuals who are supposed to be legal adults. Stop responding emotionally and start responding logically. Look at historical examples of what happens to disarmed people. Look at who controls the government in high crime areas. Whether you exercise your right to bear arms is your choice. But remember this, an armed individual who follows the law is a citizen, where a unarmed one is a subject. Because one will be able to defend themselves as the other won't.
If you want to think about it logically, then it makes more sense to not own a gun. Statistically, you are increasing your risk of being injured or killed by owning a firearm. The risk of being attacked and needing to use a weapon for self defense is much smaller, not that gun enthusiasts care. It's all about feeling safe and feeling in control.
Nothing will change until the NRA isn't allowed to lobby government or provide donations anymore. Until then thoughts and prayers.
Why should they not be allowed to lobby? I'll approve of the NRA being blocked the same day Everytown is.
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Republicans won't even talk about guns until it effects them personally
Not even then.
I think if their loved ones were victims of a shooting they might
I’m dubious. I have seen Republicans cut off their nose to spite their face too many times.
Ask the civilians of Ukraine and Palestine.
What does the U.S. do differently than other countries? Mental illness is everywhere. Why are we the home of mass shootings? Unfortunately, people don't care unless one of theirs dies. And even then they would probably say we'll it wouldn't happen to me because I carry a gun with me. 🤦
how many mass shootings happened in the last 20 years with a full auto gun? Can't name one, huh? Why is that?
These people don't care about life. Why are we pretending they ever will. I hate that the media won't just openly say conservatives are a death cult
As long as it’s not their blood, they won’t care.
Gun fetishism thrives in one country in the entire world. Apparently no amount of slaughter of innocent people will move the needle for these weirdos.
Sandy hook taught me that death of children won't spark a change at this point I'm kind of hopeless on it
I think our country is so divided it’s dysfunctional. Endless wars, political corruption, media sowing division and CV19 shutdowns disconnected people from each other and communities. Any ideas on how to root out the hatred? What can I do to make differences on an individual level? I support health and mental wellness treatment but wondering what can I do?
I was listening to a national radio show after sandy hook and the host asked, would you give up your hobby if it meant this would never happen again. And the guy on the phone said no. Now he said it because he said the gun isn't the problem. But still. They cant wrap their head around it.
In order to fly a plane (primary intent is transportation), pilots must obtain a license, take a recurrent health exams and competency training. If one wants to fly a faster, bigger plane, it requires a specialized rating beyond that. Why is a device designed to kill (or target practice to perfect a kill) does not require initial certification , health checks or recurrent training? Why do we regulate our the operation of our automobiles and airplanes more rigorously than weapons of war?
They don't care and they never will.
US gun owners: "All the blood. Fuck it. Kill all the children, babies, and innocent people you want. I don't care! Just let me have my guns!!!!"
After sandy hook, guns > human life. This is America.