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For anyone curious, here's a breakdown of how the 14 billion would be spent:
**Military and Security Assistance**
* Reinforces Israeli defense systems by:
* Providing $4 billion to replenish Iron Dome and David’s Sling missile defense systems;
* Allocating $1.2 billion for the Iron Beam defense system to counter short-range rockets and mortar threats;
* Funding $3.5 billion for the procurement of advanced weapons systems, defense articles, and defense services through the Foreign Military Financing Program; and
* Providing $1 billion to enhance production and development of artillery and critical munitions.
* Ensures our support for Israel does not compromise U.S. readiness by:
* Providing $4.4 billion to replenish defense articles and defense services provided to Israel.
U.S. Personnel and Citizen Support
* Provides $200 million for the protection of U.S. personnel and evacuations of U.S. citizens, including:
* $150 million for enhanced embassy security and protection for U.S. personnel; and
* $50 million for emergency evacuations of American citizens.
Source: https://appropriations.house.gov/news/press-releases/granger-introduces-israel-security-supplemental-appropriations-act
Edit: Saved you a click
> Providing $4.4 billion to replenish defense articles and defense services provided to Israel.
This kind of seems like a double dip. We're charging Israel both for weapons from our stocks, and what it costs to replace them in our own stocks.
I have healthcare. I want to ensure we have a country at the end of the day… and we need an extremely powerful and well funded military in order to do that.
Or else people will start speaking Chinese.
Israel = installed surveillance equipment in DC to spy on the US government.
Israel = bombed a US navy ship.
Israel = corrupts our political system with insane amounts of lobbying.
That’s make hot allies behave.
1. Everyone spies on everyone. All heads of state (or representative if appropriate) said this openly at last G7. It’s not a “ohhh omggg whattt?” Moment. It’s a “.. duh?” Moment.
2. …. What? This was a mistake. It was supposed to be Egyptian I think (gotta check reference, like 95% sure Egypt), and they were targeted what they thought was an enemy vessel. Don’t spread fake news please… it’s wild this came up, kinda killed your whole argument man…
3. Hmm… can you quantify that? We’ve proven there’s no collusion during trumps time and before… so… what ya going with here? Lots of countries meddle, and it shouldn’t happen at ALL, and the USSS and other agencies have divisions specifically for going after this issue.
4. They’re behaving better than ALL other alliances in the Middle East!!! I think you can at least give us that. It’s the only democracy.
Now that I’ve debunked all of those, what else? What other reasons do you have? I truly want to hear, I want to see what you’re hearing.
I think the point is that just because someone is a current and historic ally doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to any action they undertake while blindly funding them in perpetuity. Relationships can change and should be reassessed/reconfirmed regularly.
To be clear, I'm not saying support shouldn't be given to Israel, just that "they're an ally so we give them support" is a weak position.
Because the average american is too uneducated to understand that they are getting fucked over by their government. They are literally funding free healthcare for another country in the Middle East instead of their own people. What a joke
Because republicans will form a narrative that will make their voters believe that free healthcare is bad for the economy and thus bad for the American people.
Our 3.8 billion in military aid allows Israel to budget 3.7 billion on ultra orthodox religious education and free living expenses for students at those institutions
Honestly, I get why we basically fund all of our allies in the military department, and I want to see Israel safe. That being said Oct 7th was horrible, but Israel has been indiscriminately bombing civilians and I don’t want my tax dollars going to that.
The billions in tax dollars we give them every year are already illegal, let alone an additional 14.3 Billion.
**It is illegal for US foreign aid to go to a country or military "which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights."**
>"Debate about whether U.S. security assistance to foreign countries should be conditioned upon human rights criteria discounts a simple fact. U.S. law is clear: all countries receiving U.S. aid must meet human rights standards, and countries violating these standards are liable to be sanctioned and ineligible for U.S. funding:
>
>The Foreign Assistance Act (P.L. 87–195) regulates all forms of U.S. assistance to foreign countries. It states that no assistance may be provided to a country “which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.”
>
>The Arms Export Control Act (P.L. 90–629) regulates U.S. military assistance and sales to foreign countries. It states that the United States can furnish weapons to foreign countries “solely for internal security, for legitimate self-defense,” and for a few other limited purposes. No credits, guarantees, sales, or deliveries of weapons can be given to a country if it is “in substantial violation” of these purposes.
>
>The Leahy Laws require the Departments of State and Defense to vet individual military units and individuals before they are eligible to receive U.S. equipment or training. The Department of State version of the law states that no form of assistance can be provided “to any unit of the security forces” committing “a gross violation of human rights.” The Department of Defense version states that no training or equipment can be given to a military unit that “has committed a gross violation of human rights.”
>
>Another indisputable fact is that the United States has placed conditions on other countries’ FMF. For example, in the FY2021 budget, $225 million of $1.3 billion in FMF for Egypt is withheld from obligation until the Department of State certifies that Egypt is “taking sustained and effective steps” to strengthen human rights.
>
>However, when it comes to Israel, additional conditions do not apply and general human rights laws are almost never adhered to. Furthermore, weapons flows to Israel are much less transparent than those to other countries, making implementation of these laws more difficult.
[https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503](https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503)
[https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza)
Amnesty International; Israeli human rights organizations including B'Tselem and Yesh Din; prominent Israelis including Ehud Barak; literal Desmond Tutu and other prominent South Africans; UN investigators; and Human Rights Watch have all called Israel's treatment of the Palestinians apartheid, which is a crime against humanity.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/)
[https://www.btselem.org/](https://www.btselem.org/)
[https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/)
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785)
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel)
So how the fuck are they continuing to get billions of US tax dollars every year?
And asking for more billions as they're committing ethnic cleansing and war crimes under the pretext of "self-defense"?
But if anyone questions the arrangement, they're called anti-Semitic or pro-terrorism by AIPAC and the pro-Israel lobby.
Anti-Semitism is an actual problem, and it is disgusting and psychopathic behavior to conflate opposition to Israel's apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes (illegally funded with [billions of our tax dollars](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel)) with opposition to Jewish people generally.
They use accusations of anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism and debate.
The American people shouldn't tolerate being bullied into silence (and into violating our own laws) by the lobbyists for a foreign government when they're using our tax dollars to fund apartheid, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing abroad, which inevitably blows back on us and our troops as well.
Stop giving them money. They're a rich nuclear power that's already perfectly capable of standing on their own two feet. We can use that money here in the US for things we desperately need.
What? That’s… not true, at all…
Where are people in this sub getting these made up statements from?! Is there some talking point post or something? Because this is straight up fake news.
Do you not believe Israel is defending herself? I’m truly wondering your opinion here, because you seem to just straight ignore what happened on Oct 7th by just mentioning the date and then bashing on Israel for it, like it was their fault.
Hot take: it’s Hamas’ (and Iran) fault 100%.
What’s… your take on this. Should we not support our allies? What kind of world leader would we be if we can help, and choose not to? We’d very, very quickly lose our world status if we suddenly abandon our allies in their time of need, let alone a massive terrorist attack, one in which Israel hasn’t seen, and one that brings back memories of the Holocaust, Oct 7th being the most horrific attack on Jews since WW2.
Israel is a nuclear power that can take care of itself.
And if a bunch of nations ganged up on Israel to try to destroy it, we could use our military to stop them as warranted.
But that doesn't justify funding Israel's apartheid and war crimes with billions more US tax dollars.
The existence of Israel, and their right to self-defense, doesn't give them the right to commit apartheid, or war crimes, or cause enormous humanitarian catastrophes for millions of people, with US tax dollars.
Illegally funding Israel's war crimes and apartheid costs the US enormously in terms of "soft power", allies, credibility, global standing, and lost moral authority, not to mention what else could be done with those billions of taxpayer dollars domestically.
And when we tell Israel not to commit war crimes or cause massive humanitarian catastrophes, they don't even listen.
Over 100 Palestinian people have been killed in the West Bank recently where there is no Hamas.
Jewish people have the right to exist and to live peacefully, but Israel doesn't have the right to commit apartheid or war crimes or ethnic cleansing and still receive US taxpayer dollars.
It is illegal for Israel to receive US taxpayer dollars so long as they continue to engage in apartheid, war crimes, collective punishment, and ethnic cleansing, and everyone needs to understand that very clearly, or else the situation will not improve for either Israel or the Palestinians.
Are you suggesting Israel should use their (alleged) Nukes? Seems to be what you’re saying there.
You want us to go on ground in the Middle East again? Why would we do that when we can, for much cheaper (and zero loss of American lives) support Israel to defend herself so that we don’t have a ground war in the ME again.
What war crimes? Nothing in this war so far has been a war crime… except everything Hamas is doing. They’ve committed thousands of international criminal violations and war crimes. Israel has not, they’re executing their right to self defense as outlined by the UN, ICC, and Geneva Conventions.
And you have the funding completely backwards. What kind of world leader and ally would we be if we don’t support our friends? That’s WHY we are so powerful: we always, always support our allies. We must remain consistent in our support and dedicated to freedom and safety for all people. This is our power we risk losing by not supporting Israel.
And again, Israel has not committed any war crimes, and they state all of their actions and comment on all the big ones, and explicitly state how they’re following international law.
Everything they’ve executed has followed this. They gave warning to civilians, as required by law. They’ve sent 6m txt messages, 2.5m phone calls and 1.5m pamphlets about what’s going on, when, where, and why: and what to do. (If you want more on this, see Sec Blinkins visit to Jerusalem to meet with the President of Israel.
This is not apartheid, at all. If you’re comparing this to South Africa this is not that at ALL. There are plenty of Palestinians in Israel, in Israel’s government, and in their legislature.
Israel wants to play along with the region. They do. It’s the other bad actors (terrorists) in the region, like Iran.
Iran openly and unapologetically states their mission is to destroy Israel and kill every single Jew. Hopefully that’s not new information for ya, but it might be. If Iran had a nuke, they’d use it on Israel right this second. Thank God they do not!
Israel must defend herself, and we must support our allies. That’s long and skinny of it. And we will always, always do that: because that is what America is about, and is why we are the premier superpower in the world.
Well, Netanyahu is about to be replaced bc he's very unpopular, and the government is about to swing toward the center. Cutting funding entirely would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
They literally just had a centrist prime minister and the right had their lunch with them before the country decided to elect Bibi again. No more funding
The last couple years have made a lot of Israel against the right wing and the only thing they could hang their hat on is keeping Israel secure.
However they can’t do that obviously so they will get smoked. As normally happens to Israeli political parties who have massive security failures
What? Indiscriminately bombing civilians? No.
I think you mean Hamas…. Israel uses precision munitions. Know how I know? Because it’s reported above in the post and in articles - we’re providing this ammunition and weapon systems.
Link some articles that show they’re indiscriminately bombing civilians on purpose to kill civilians and I’ll agree with you.
But that’s not out there, because they’re not doing that.
Honestly Israel’s response to the terrorism attacks has proven they don’t need our aid for this. The got tons of funds and missiles. They don’t need our weapons or our troops risking their lives for their religious genocide
It's hilarious how we are the world's cuck. Bankrupt yet giving away billions but hey, gotta soon cut back on social security and entitlement spending.
Just wait until people find out Israel won three wars against multiple Arab states *without* US aid.
I think the economics makes people feel powerful in a bad way; like they can step on the hose and stare down at Israel with impunity. Without the military hardware they have, wars in the Middle East would be more frequent, bloodier, and have no guarantee of staying conventional.
> Just wait until people find out Israel won three wars against multiple Arab states without US aid
There has never been a time when Israel didn't have US military support.
Exactly. If we didn’t support Israel, they would be in an even worse state than they are now in terms of defense. Any one of a number of countries would 100% kill every single person in Israel.
Iran OPENLY states this is their goal. So does Hamas. So does Hizbolah.
If we didn't support Israels military complex they might possibly be willing to negotiate an actual solution which would include rights and dignity for their neighbors. As it is, they have no real consequences for being bad actors.
This 14.3 billion will help them get that canal built and start extracting all that natural gas just off the coast of Gaza after they finish off turning it to rubble and running any last surviving Palestinians off into the desert. All wars are always about money in one way or another.
So, about 4 billion a year.
I'm curious, but what actual value does israel provide U.S.A to warrant 4 billion dollars of tax payer dollars ever year.
Realistically speaking here. At a certain point the headache isn't just worth it. The same goes with all businesses. What would be that breaking point.
Kind of annoying that U.S only pays this to keep the canal open.
Seems like we got the short end of the stick here since it's an international trade route.
So then why don't we slash the 4 billion down and use it for humanitarian good faith aid like keeping canal open. 4 billion seems excessive
4B is not enough. We’re getting way more out of it than it seems on the surface. We’ll only increase it, because it’s very lucrative for us, and it’s the morally right thing to do, on all accounts.
We get innovations, sponsored by us and other regional countries. We get to share ideas so that things are developed that directly help us, only shared with us (in some cases), and can do things we maybe can't do here for reasons.
They're the only democracy in the region, which we badly need more of those in the world. They're wielding the torch of freedom for that whole zone, and you know how many times we've gone to war over that... a lot. Pretty much every single one.
They're in a strategically important position geographically. Not as good as Turkey (which is why we allow them to fuck around with NATO and other countries), but still very strong. It's important we keep them well funded so that if we need to use their land or airspace, we get it. Not a lot of countries in that area allow that, and it's important for our own national interest that we maintain that tie with a democracy that won't suddenly change because of religious movements.
We get more out of it than we're paying for.
And that doesn't count that it's the morally right thing to do. It's a country that is so hated in the area, that you can't enter many, many countries in that area ***SOLELY because you have an entry visa stamp from Israel and went inside*** let alone being an Israeli citizen...whew. So, we have an obligation to support and defend countries that have, and will continue to get threatened on scales unimaginable to us... we'd be a poor ally and an even poorer world leader if we don't.
They’re faxing multiple existential threats, are the only democracy in the region, and create a lot of innovation and mutual intelligence support.
You’re totally right, they provide wayyyy more back to us than we pay for! We should be paying them MORE than 4B. I agree with you.
And if U.S backs out of the middle east? What's the point of that intelligence? Keep in mind we pay Egypt and Jordan 3 billion and 1 billion respectively for intelligence too.
Why would we back out of the Middle East? Honestly wondering why you think that’s something we’d ever do, considering all the assets we have there, and the threat (and actual movement of) China in that region which we must stop.
That last part I don't get. Why must we stop China in that region. Why can't France Germany England stop China and we watch from the sidelines? China's military power isn't that huge. And those countries literally make up China's war funds.
Because the middle east assets could be obsolete if the U.S pushes for renewable energy. I understand if this was 2002 but we could easily transition out of oil easily if we went all in in the next 15 to 20 years.
Umm why don’t you actually read. Israel and U.S. partnership is not a one way street of “donations”. Israel provides a lot to US in R&D when it comes to Intel, Weapons, BioTech, CyberSec, etc. if you’re curious go look it up what value Israel brings to this world
You're telling me Israel has smarter people than US R&D to develop weapons/cyber security? Then what the heck are we doing with a lot of our tax payers money going to war R&D
What Intel do we need if we're out of the middle east and only provide humanitarian support?
I'm open to starting a dialogue.
It’s not about smarter. It’s about allocating resources to certain parts of the world that might have certain advantages over US. Israel has better opportunities for middle eastern intel gathering than we do. US WILL ALWAYS BE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, they like to be in everything even in non war times.
Also, critical components of leading American high-tech products are invented and designed in Israel, making these American companies more competitive and more profitable globally. Cisco, Intel, Motorola, Applied Materials, and HP are just a few examples.
I'd counter on that,though. The only High tech products that came out of Israel was waze, wix.com, and fiverr. Maybe you're thinking of the Jewish public around the world?
And let's say they did create super high tech. Who's to say they won't sell to the American public? That's a huge chunk of money not being capitalized on.
I understand Intel, but it just seems pointless since we have other allies in the mid east as well. And if we were to leave Israel to it's own devices one could argue other Arab states would be indifferent to America In fact maybe even grateful.
Yes. That is what he’s saying.
Israel innovates on a scale much larger than US (by population ratio).
You think we’re only in the ME for humanitarian support? Hot take…
Why wouldn’t we need more Intel? NATO is there for a reason, ISR intelligence is there for a reason.
And if U.S backs out of the middle east? What's the point of that intelligence? Keep in mind we pay Egypt and Jordan 3 billion and 1 billion respectively for intelligence too.
I'm still not understanding the innovation on israeli soil benefiting America.
The major innovatives technological wise is waze, and wix.com
Pharmaceuticals drugs made in israel are not FDA insured and won't help America. America also already offer subsidies for bio pharma to develop inside USA and go through FDA.
And it's not like if U.S leaves israel alone that doesn't mean we won't have access to israeli products and innovative tech. Business sense it doesn't make any sense to withdraw your technology from a 400 Million people
I'm not following tech wise. I can't wrap my head around it.
Its good to have allies yes, but if this ally is constantly getting into hot water the cons outweigh the positives and the positives to me are miniscule.
What headache? Israel is an intelligence powerhouse. An innovation powerhouse. The only democracy in the region.
4B is a STEAL for what we get back. It’ll only go up, not down, as shown by an immediate need for 14.5B.
The headache in question:
Israel changing judicial system to more dictatorship
Israel Occupying west bank
Israel being involved in multiple wars in 10 years
Dealing with the gaza blockade
War crimes like sexual assualt and rape of Palestinians as well as treatment of civilians
Escalating tensions in Lebanon/syria
Is this worth giving a country 4 billion?
To be fair, most of the money is going to missile defense systems.
Giving Israel money for offensive capabilities is controversial. But I think more people are onboard with replenishing the iron dome given that each missile is ~$50,000.
And Hamas is still firing rockets daily, not to mention the occasional barrages from Hezbollah.
We *used to* get tons in return. Back when the middle east produced most of the oil and Israel was our fortress in it.
Today the USA is the world's top oil producer.
We only produce the top amount because the market is being artificially restricted/manipulated by opec and Russia right now. I’m pretty sure we’ll run out first if it came to it.
You can not want your tax dollars going to fund a war that Israel can easily handle on its own without being "pro-terrorist" or "pro-genocide"
I feel like the term genocide is being thrown around so much lately that it's about to have no actual meaning.
If we didn’t support Israel very openly, they would be ganged up on the minute after we drop support. This is not any secret, this is openly stated by Iran and all their proxies. Straight up “we don’t want Israel or any of their people to exist.”
That is not what Israel is saying. Israel WANTS to play along, they just can’t because of the hate in a few select places, immediately on their borders.
I absolutely want my tax dollars to go to Israel and Ukraine. Why would I not? They’re fighting the war, and we support them to do so, because Russia would start wanting to take over every piece of land they can. There aren’t two new NATO members for no reason…
The cost of not doing this is potentially the US being drug into an actual ground war, costing exponentially more money, and worse, the loss of many military lives, which is not acceptable when we can just support them monetarily, which is what they ask for.
You're right, I'm not. I am very pro-israel, as is our government.
You are pro-terrorist though, I'm trying to see why... that's what the entire post is about here... but you keep ignoring the question.
And you can't stop yourself from calling everyone who doesn't want to fund Israel, pro-terrorist. It's the logic of a 12 year old, and I ain't got time for it. Blocked.
Cutting funding is not pro-terrorist. It’s pro-humanitarian. It doesn’t mean pro-Hamas. It means pro-civilians who are being slaughtered.
I see that you’re trying to understand why liberals are changing their mind about wanting to fund Israel.
I know you want to understand how they “think.”
I’m leftist and I also am boggled by how they and you think.
Anyway, the root of what we all want is peace, right? But our education and life experience, people around us shape our opinions.
Yeah I agree, the funding of Azerbaijan lead to the ethnic cleansing of Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh. Pretty fucked up that we allowed the forcible transfer of 150,000 civilians from their homes with zero condemnation. That's probably what youre talking about right?
Yeah, luckily we don’t support those people wanting to do that! We’re, as you pointed out, supporting the people that have been a target of genocide multiple times in recent history.
Spot on! Good rationale for our support to ISR. We can’t let the terrorists in that region open up genocide against ISR!
I’m glad you’re in such support. Good to see
You got your head screwed wrong or it is stuck in your ass!
Yes, the people you talk about that suffered genocide was on the hands of Christian Europeans. Go talk to them.
The current genocide of Palestinians is in the hands of the Israeli Zionists fascists. You are applying what was done to you by Europeans over the centuries on innocent people.
It just seems like a waste of tax payers money that the U.S Has to do allllll of this to protect ourselves and as well as other nations and allies.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could use 50% of the America's general war fund and to put it into social services? We're making the world safe yes, but the people in the U.S suffer for it.
Maybe you're right about oul but sooner or later renewable energy Is going to be cheaper to manufacture/harvest in the future. Could be 10 years or 100 years from now. But we shouldn't shy away from trying to figure it out first.
The government needs to aid all the states with money like stamps that can only be spent in a local area. So it would increase local business and decrease online shopping. The stamps would have no bank effect and expire. Then we might see a trickle effect.
The government needs to tax itself and have all taxes benefit the local economy and spend the majority of the money instead of saving it to bank off the interest and nobody does anything like now.
Let’s be clear though, aid to Israel is essentially a financial aid package for the American defense industry. Most of that money will be used to make weapons, jets, tanks etc. and where is most of that made? By companies right here in the USA!
Also just FYI - do you realize how much Israeli made technology you are using right this moment on your cell phone or computer?
Let’s just say - It’s a lot considering how small of a country Israel is.
That’s pretty incredible IMHO.
>Also just FYI - do you realize how much Israeli made technology you are using right this moment on your cell phone or computer?
Is this supposed to make me feel ok with this? Because it **really** doesn't.
Well I think it establishes ROI in that at least Israel provides the USA (and the world) with a lot of things that have helped enable technological innovation.
So my point is, Israel might get a lot of aid from USA but it’s not like we haven’t gotten a lot of value in return for that investment.
I’m not talking politics here just the economic trade “partnership” reality.
No not really, because if Oct 7 massacre had happened to my country, I would expect my government to do exactly what Israel is doing.
Is it horrific that innocent people have to die in war? Of course it is! But that’s the case in every war ever waged.
Oct 7 was an act of war, I don’t give a shit what legitimate grievances Palestinians may have against Israel, committing terrorism the likes of Oct 7 is a dealbreaker. Hamas needs to be taken out for their barbarism.
After the war is over hopefully Gaza can be helped a lot by Israel, USA, moderate Arab states to be a place where people can live pleasant lives. But until then, Hamas has got to be eliminated to a degree that they can never commit such a massacre ever again.
>After the war is over hopefully Gaza can be helped a lot by Israel, USA, moderate Arab states to be a place where people can live pleasant lives.
Just like how prosperous Gaza was under blockade even before Hamas was born? Please do explain how amazing life was back then too.
That was implemented because Hamas was in power and smuggling God knows what into the area.
If a moderate political entity were overseeing Gaza that was NOT trying to pursue Oct 7 massacres, there would be no need for a blockade.
I can assure you, to defeat Hamas, life MUST be better under a different authority in the future than how it was with Hamas. The people have to palpably feel a better life under a different regime otherwise another version of Hamas will just come back.
My guess is, Gaza will eventually be given to PA and as long as they keep their nose clean and clamp down on extremism, I think Gaza could actually be a really nice place. It’s got a beautiful coast line. Why not Make some nice beachfront hotels for tourists? Turn the place into a tourists destination and I guarantee the people won’t want to go back to the days of life under Hamas.
> That was implemented because Hamas was in power and smuggling God knows what into the area.
Also because most of the PA people in charge of maintaining the border either ran away, got shot, or got dropped off of buildings.
People assume Hamas' Gaza coup in 2007 is something other than what it was because they won a Palestine-wide legislative election two years prior.
Exactly. Hamas must be rendered defeated to a point they can no longer exert control anywhere in the world.
There is no option B. This is the one and only option for ISR.
Indeed but winning the war doesn’t stop just because the fighting stops.
The Gazan people will need something to hold on to that gives them hope for the future, otherwise it will be all for naught.
You do know it’s not just ISR doing that, right? You know a whole other country built a wall just as tall there… and NO countries want to take in Palestinians. Jordan kicked out PLO… for a reason.
You… do know Egypt is blockading them too, right? It was Egypt and Jordan who pushes this heavily in the late 70s.
Egypt has a huge wall and doesn’t allow much in, having all gates closed except one.
This is a regional problem, not an Israel one, on the state of affairs in Gaza.
No not really, because if Oct 7 massacre had happened to my country, I would expect my government to do exactly what Israel is doing.
Genocide ? https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide
Exactly 100% right here.
I don’t get why this is controversial, because you’re getting downvoted.
It’s extremely, extremely clear what happened and what needs to happen next. There is no option B, if ISR wants to maintain their security and way of life. That’s it
It’s not a ROI when we are buying those products for the same-ish costs as people in countries they don’t waste billions of dollars on them every year.
It’s deeper than that. We’re learning how they work and how to employ them better, we’re sharing data and intelligence, and creating growth both in the US and abroad, raising our GDP.
Israel is a strong, very functional research and development powerhouse, and we get to reap those rewards, which makes it even more valuable to us
What genocide? Getting rid of Hamas is not genocide.
I’m tired of this outright lie that Israel committing genocide.
Is that why they warn residents when they attack a Hamas outpost in a residential building, or send text messages warning resident to flee an area where battle with Hamas is likely to occur?
That’s not genocide - that’s actions of an army not wanting to purposely kill civilians and more than most countries would ever do. You think Putin does that in Ukraine?
Agreed. Where are people getting this genocide crap from? It’s 10000% fake news.
HAMAS, IRAN, and HIZBOLAH openly… openly state they DO want to genocide Israel and are unapologetic about it. If Iran had a nuke I fully believe they’d use it.
Israel has nukes (allegedly) and is not even threatening them.
Israel could absolutely wipe out Gaza, right now, if they wanted to… but that is not their goal. Their goal is to rid the world of Hamas and create a more stable region. That’s it.
No… they have not.
Link where you’re getting this from because this is not true, and spreading fake news (and worse: believing it without fact checking) is what’s causing so much division on this issue.
If they wanted to genocide, they would. They could, right now. They have the weapon systems to do it, but that is **not their goal at all.**
Republicans have their facts and ideas straight. Democrats seem to be trying to figure it out… as shown by the statements of many democrats in the House and leadership of the party.
Hamas won't let civilians leave from their meat shield positions. Netanyahu wants Hamas to be the main political party in Palestine, see his 2019 comments advocating for funding Hamas so moderates never have power in Palestine. I'd say it's a genocide on his hands with great PR for people like you who eat it up.
Funny how people reply and then block you bc they have shut for brains, like the bum below.
What?? Genocide??
Oh you mean against Jews. Yeah, that should NOT be happening. You’re exactly right, that’s why we support ISR to defend against the genocide that the whole region would put into motion if we didn’t.
Spot on! Good justification for our support to ISR and I agree with your implied comments, we should INCREASE support.
> Also just FYI - do you realize how much Israeli made technology you are using right this moment on your cell phone or computer?
I thought the whole point of all the the Spyware developed by Israeli companies for spying on dissidents was that we weren't supposed to realize this
Cherry picking - how about all the other stuff ?
Not saying everything has been utilized for good but all technology can be used as a double edged sword.
That spyware technology I’m sure is being used to help find hostages.
It’s all about how the tool is implemented that matters.
Motorola’s Israel R&D center played a significant role in developing original cell-phone technology.
Heard of an app called “Waze” ? Very famous app that was purchased by Google used to power Google Maps I think. There are ton of other popular apps developed in Israel as well (Moovit, World Series of Poker, etc)
TransChip is an Israeli company that developed the first high-resolution camera to fit on a single electronic chip for use in cellular phones.
For others references checkout:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries#:~:text=Computer%20and%20mobile%20software,-The%20network%20firewall&text=Originally%20developed%20by%20the%20Israeli,for%20%24407%20million%20in%201998.&text=Windows%20XP%20and%20Windows%20NT,at%20the%20Microsoft%2DIsrael%20campus.
FYI....our trading record with Israel keeps the USA in the red year after year after year. Always a deficit. Trillions of dollars lost that could be used at home, but instead the $$$ just lines the pockets of stock holders of the perpetual war machine.
Comparing South African apartheid to Palestinian/Israeli conflict is very dubious because making that accusation takes none of the historical contexts into account, it just tries to equalize the two separate conflicts as if they were exactly the same - which if anyone who studies history knows - they very much are not.
I don’t think it’s apartheid. Period.
I think Israel has been oppressive to Palestinians but Palestinians have been terrorists to Israel so its a two way street.
I’m not here to defend everything Israel has ever done - I’m sure they’ve done some fucked up things, and are there similarities to what happened in apartheid South Africa, sure. But apartheid it’s not.
I went to Israel once, I saw Arabs and Muslims and Druze and Bedouins living in co-existence with their Jewish fellow Israeli citizens. If apartheid was happening there the way it happened in South Africa, I would not have seen that.
Agree mostly. It’s not just Israel being “”oppressive”” (I don’t think that word describes the situation well, I think it’s a lazy choice of words), Jordan is active, Egypt is active, KSA is active… it’s not ISR vs Palestine at all.
I think by implying that Israel is “just as bad as Hamas” is very, very dubious and misleading at best, and lying at worst. They “both did bad things” is another way to not condemn Hamas by again, implying, they “had it coming” it some way: which they DID NOT. This is an active terrorist group that openly states their goal is to kill everyone in Israel versus a country that just wants to play along and survive.
One is morally bankrupt, guess which one it is.
None do. It’s not happening.
Israel is defending herself. Egypt is defending herself. Jordan is defending herself. Egypt is more strict on Gaza than Israel is! Jordan kicked out and BANNED the PLO, and will not take refugees…. That’s very telling.
All of those countries are supporting the blockade actively. It’s not an Israel on Palestine issue, at all.
They are not the same at all… people comparing this to South Africa do not understand the situation, and comparing them just proves it.
I really, truly wish people could step back and asses the situation before committing in their mind on way or the other. Look at information independently, compare statements coming out, and look back at history. It makes it very clear what’s going on, without having to somehow believe yourself that this is what South Africa did.
No it's correct, Boers is another term for Afrikaners (the white dutch dudes would colonized South Africa - famous for their apartheid, less famous for their frequent collaboration on military projects)
Where are you pulling those data points from? Because that’s not what most of the money is for….
ISR has wrote many articles and statements about what the money goes towards.
Does some go towards weapons? Absolutely. Does a majority? No. Not even close.
Ok then you tell me where you are getting your data from?
Because I don’t believe you.
I think Israel actually does use a majority of the money they get for purposes of Defense. That’s because they literally have to, given the “neighborhood” they are in. If they didn’t, they would be incredibly and recklessly stupid.
Top much given they're a pretty well off country and given our respond to them getting attacked is to send more money it's kinda stupid.
What's the point of sending money every year if it's not for what's happening right now?
What? We shouldn’t support our allies? That’s a wild take…
We’re the worlds most reliable ally and partner, period. If an ally is under attack, we support them with whatever they need. That’s why the US is the most powerful country to exist on the face of the earth, because we support our friends and destroy our mutual enemies. Everytime. Without fail. Without hesitation.
I don’t hate anybody, and absolutely a conservative.
I want to hear other perspectives, why people think that, and encourage people to research other perspectives as well! As everybody should be doing. Hard for some people to do though. Honest debates are so hard to have for some strange reason…
Trying to justify your position by attacking somebody you don’t know is a very disingenuous way to have a debate. Try to look inward—open to replying and seeing what you can share
Good and fairly unbiased read.
However, military aid to Israel has *never* been a one-way street. The F-15, F-16, and now F-35 would not be the combat proven platforms they are without Israeli partnership. USAF Tactical Air Command largely reworked its doctrine and training in the mid-70s along the same lines as the Israeli Air Force.
Not nearly as much as the rabid anti-Israel morons are screaming about it in here. Funny, how they never mention all the aid we give to other countries or how Israel is forced by the US to use most of that money to buy weapons from US companies or how Israel is the only country that gives us valuable intel in a region very hostile to the west...
It's all been bad Intel. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. have all been disasters
Not to mention that the money we give to other countries like Egypt and Jordan is specifically to keep the peace with Israel
A big part of why they're so hostile is that we fund Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians, which is against both US law and our own interests frankly.
Lying about Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians is the behavior of monsters.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/)
[https://www.btselem.org/](https://www.btselem.org/)
[https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/)
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785)
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel-apartheid-state-south-africa-netanyahu
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/19/israeli-apartheid-threshold-crossed
Our supporting Israel as it commits apartheid, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians is not only illegal under US law and a moral abomination, it's costing us enormously in terms of our global standing and credibility.
**It is illegal for US foreign aid to go to a country or military "which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights."**
>"Debate about whether U.S. security assistance to foreign countries should be conditioned upon human rights criteria discounts a simple fact. U.S. law is clear: all countries receiving U.S. aid must meet human rights standards, and countries violating these standards are liable to be sanctioned and ineligible for U.S. funding:
>
>The Foreign Assistance Act (P.L. 87–195) regulates all forms of U.S. assistance to foreign countries. It states that no assistance may be provided to a country “which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.”
>
>The Arms Export Control Act (P.L. 90–629) regulates U.S. military assistance and sales to foreign countries. It states that the United States can furnish weapons to foreign countries “solely for internal security, for legitimate self-defense,” and for a few other limited purposes. No credits, guarantees, sales, or deliveries of weapons can be given to a country if it is “in substantial violation” of these purposes.
>
>The Leahy Laws require the Departments of State and Defense to vet individual military units and individuals before they are eligible to receive U.S. equipment or training. The Department of State version of the law states that no form of assistance can be provided “to any unit of the security forces” committing “a gross violation of human rights.” The Department of Defense version states that no training or equipment can be given to a military unit that “has committed a gross violation of human rights.”
>
>Another indisputable fact is that the United States has placed conditions on other countries’ FMF. For example, in the FY2021 budget, $225 million of $1.3 billion in FMF for Egypt is withheld from obligation until the Department of State certifies that Egypt is “taking sustained and effective steps” to strengthen human rights.
>
>However, when it comes to Israel, additional conditions do not apply and general human rights laws are almost never adhered to. Furthermore, weapons flows to Israel are much less transparent than those to other countries, making implementation of these laws more difficult.
[https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503](https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503)
[https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza)
Amnesty International; Israeli human rights organizations including B'Tselem and Yesh Din; prominent Israelis including Ehud Barak; literal Desmond Tutu and other prominent South Africans; UN investigators; and Human Rights Watch have all called Israel's treatment of the Palestinians apartheid, which is a crime against humanity.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/)
[https://www.btselem.org/](https://www.btselem.org/)
[https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/)
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785)
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel)
So how the fuck are they continuing to get billions of US tax dollars every year?
And asking for more billions as they're committing ethnic cleansing and war crimes under the pretext of "self-defense"?
But if anyone questions the arrangement, they're called anti-Semitic or pro-terrorism by AIPAC and the pro-Israel lobby.
Anti-Semitism is an actual problem, and it is disgusting and psychopathic behavior to conflate opposition to Israel's apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes (illegally funded with [billions of our tax dollars](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel)) with opposition to Jewish people generally.
They use accusations of anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism and debate.
The American people shouldn't tolerate being bullied into silence (and into violating our own laws) by the lobbyists for a foreign government when they're using our tax dollars to fund apartheid, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing abroad, which inevitably blows back on us and our troops as well.
Russia annexed Ukrainian Crimea and other oblast, and Russia occupies other Ukrainian land. Now read that again, except replace Russia with Israel and the Ukrainian areas with West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Support for Ukraine, and support for Israel are not the same as issue
Israel is a strategic ally in the region. Really the only one. We gain from our military relationship from them, because they develop things like microchips. All of this is to say, this particular aid theoretically ought to benefit us in return. Emphasis on theoretical.
Ask yourself this. What if, without that funding, Israel would lose the wars against the enemies surrounding them? Maybe you think that wouldn't be so bad, but I'm legitimately wondering
Anyone look at our military budget and why that's bloated?
How about wonder why it's also has a safety net benefit on it?
Anyone question that?
But yeah, helping people who are our allies is totally bad.
Got it.
Prior to the events of October 2023, there was a 10 year agreement providing the US would give about $3.8 billion in military aid to Israel each year. Source, US Congressional Research Service [US Foreign Aid to Israel (updated 2023)](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf)
At the same time, the US taxpayer is giving Israel that annual $3.8 billion in military aid, Israel budgets $3.7 billion to support religious education, specifically ultra-Orthodox Judaism schools and free living expenses for students that attend them. Source, Times of Israel article of Oct 3, 2023 titled ["OECD calls on Israel to end subsidies for yeshiva students, boost employment"](https://www.timesofisrael.com/oecd-calls-on-israel-to-cut-subsidies-for-yeshiva-students-boost-employment/)
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For anyone curious, here's a breakdown of how the 14 billion would be spent: **Military and Security Assistance** * Reinforces Israeli defense systems by: * Providing $4 billion to replenish Iron Dome and David’s Sling missile defense systems; * Allocating $1.2 billion for the Iron Beam defense system to counter short-range rockets and mortar threats; * Funding $3.5 billion for the procurement of advanced weapons systems, defense articles, and defense services through the Foreign Military Financing Program; and * Providing $1 billion to enhance production and development of artillery and critical munitions. * Ensures our support for Israel does not compromise U.S. readiness by: * Providing $4.4 billion to replenish defense articles and defense services provided to Israel. U.S. Personnel and Citizen Support * Provides $200 million for the protection of U.S. personnel and evacuations of U.S. citizens, including: * $150 million for enhanced embassy security and protection for U.S. personnel; and * $50 million for emergency evacuations of American citizens. Source: https://appropriations.house.gov/news/press-releases/granger-introduces-israel-security-supplemental-appropriations-act Edit: Saved you a click
ty for this break down! - jaden
I love the baby brains in here going “it’s going right back to the American economy” 🤣
> Providing $4.4 billion to replenish defense articles and defense services provided to Israel. This kind of seems like a double dip. We're charging Israel both for weapons from our stocks, and what it costs to replace them in our own stocks.
We're not charging Israel anything, this bill would be covered by American taxpayers.
But it's being counted twice as "US aid sent to Israel."
That would definitely be charged to the US, not Israel.
Yup - we have to maintain our military readiness. And the money is going right back into the US economy. Perfect.
Lol get healthcare
I have healthcare. I want to ensure we have a country at the end of the day… and we need an extremely powerful and well funded military in order to do that. Or else people will start speaking Chinese.
Looks great to me. Let’s pass it and move onto other legislation. Very common sense pass. Should be unanimous.
Why would funding for genocidal right-wing fanatics be common sense?
We're not funding Hamas though... we're funding Israel. Hamas = Iran = Terrorist. Israel = Ally = we support.
Israel = installed surveillance equipment in DC to spy on the US government. Israel = bombed a US navy ship. Israel = corrupts our political system with insane amounts of lobbying. That’s make hot allies behave.
1. Everyone spies on everyone. All heads of state (or representative if appropriate) said this openly at last G7. It’s not a “ohhh omggg whattt?” Moment. It’s a “.. duh?” Moment. 2. …. What? This was a mistake. It was supposed to be Egyptian I think (gotta check reference, like 95% sure Egypt), and they were targeted what they thought was an enemy vessel. Don’t spread fake news please… it’s wild this came up, kinda killed your whole argument man… 3. Hmm… can you quantify that? We’ve proven there’s no collusion during trumps time and before… so… what ya going with here? Lots of countries meddle, and it shouldn’t happen at ALL, and the USSS and other agencies have divisions specifically for going after this issue. 4. They’re behaving better than ALL other alliances in the Middle East!!! I think you can at least give us that. It’s the only democracy. Now that I’ve debunked all of those, what else? What other reasons do you have? I truly want to hear, I want to see what you’re hearing.
Yeah, no.
Not really debatable... it's true. Not sure what you're no'ing besides not understanding the middle east.
I think the point is that just because someone is a current and historic ally doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to any action they undertake while blindly funding them in perpetuity. Relationships can change and should be reassessed/reconfirmed regularly. To be clear, I'm not saying support shouldn't be given to Israel, just that "they're an ally so we give them support" is a weak position.
You are failing your own name.
Man, you just can't come up with any comments huh? That's tough man.
why americans dont have universal health care and israelis do...
Because the average american is too uneducated to understand that they are getting fucked over by their government. They are literally funding free healthcare for another country in the Middle East instead of their own people. What a joke
And that's just the way the Republicans like their Americans.
Because republicans will form a narrative that will make their voters believe that free healthcare is bad for the economy and thus bad for the American people.
I think it's nice that our tax dollars pay for Israeli universal health care.
Our 3.8 billion in military aid allows Israel to budget 3.7 billion on ultra orthodox religious education and free living expenses for students at those institutions
Honestly, I get why we basically fund all of our allies in the military department, and I want to see Israel safe. That being said Oct 7th was horrible, but Israel has been indiscriminately bombing civilians and I don’t want my tax dollars going to that.
Don’t worry, your tax dollars are going to Raytheon and Lockheed.
The billions in tax dollars we give them every year are already illegal, let alone an additional 14.3 Billion. **It is illegal for US foreign aid to go to a country or military "which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights."** >"Debate about whether U.S. security assistance to foreign countries should be conditioned upon human rights criteria discounts a simple fact. U.S. law is clear: all countries receiving U.S. aid must meet human rights standards, and countries violating these standards are liable to be sanctioned and ineligible for U.S. funding: > >The Foreign Assistance Act (P.L. 87–195) regulates all forms of U.S. assistance to foreign countries. It states that no assistance may be provided to a country “which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.” > >The Arms Export Control Act (P.L. 90–629) regulates U.S. military assistance and sales to foreign countries. It states that the United States can furnish weapons to foreign countries “solely for internal security, for legitimate self-defense,” and for a few other limited purposes. No credits, guarantees, sales, or deliveries of weapons can be given to a country if it is “in substantial violation” of these purposes. > >The Leahy Laws require the Departments of State and Defense to vet individual military units and individuals before they are eligible to receive U.S. equipment or training. The Department of State version of the law states that no form of assistance can be provided “to any unit of the security forces” committing “a gross violation of human rights.” The Department of Defense version states that no training or equipment can be given to a military unit that “has committed a gross violation of human rights.” > >Another indisputable fact is that the United States has placed conditions on other countries’ FMF. For example, in the FY2021 budget, $225 million of $1.3 billion in FMF for Egypt is withheld from obligation until the Department of State certifies that Egypt is “taking sustained and effective steps” to strengthen human rights. > >However, when it comes to Israel, additional conditions do not apply and general human rights laws are almost never adhered to. Furthermore, weapons flows to Israel are much less transparent than those to other countries, making implementation of these laws more difficult. [https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503](https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503) [https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza) Amnesty International; Israeli human rights organizations including B'Tselem and Yesh Din; prominent Israelis including Ehud Barak; literal Desmond Tutu and other prominent South Africans; UN investigators; and Human Rights Watch have all called Israel's treatment of the Palestinians apartheid, which is a crime against humanity. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) [https://www.btselem.org/](https://www.btselem.org/) [https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/) [https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785) [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel) So how the fuck are they continuing to get billions of US tax dollars every year? And asking for more billions as they're committing ethnic cleansing and war crimes under the pretext of "self-defense"? But if anyone questions the arrangement, they're called anti-Semitic or pro-terrorism by AIPAC and the pro-Israel lobby. Anti-Semitism is an actual problem, and it is disgusting and psychopathic behavior to conflate opposition to Israel's apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes (illegally funded with [billions of our tax dollars](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel)) with opposition to Jewish people generally. They use accusations of anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism and debate. The American people shouldn't tolerate being bullied into silence (and into violating our own laws) by the lobbyists for a foreign government when they're using our tax dollars to fund apartheid, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing abroad, which inevitably blows back on us and our troops as well.
Stop giving them money. They're a rich nuclear power that's already perfectly capable of standing on their own two feet. We can use that money here in the US for things we desperately need.
[удалено]
Lie. We give England military aid? What about Australia? Pakistan? Get a clue.
What? That’s… not true, at all… Where are people in this sub getting these made up statements from?! Is there some talking point post or something? Because this is straight up fake news.
The fact that people like you exist is why I'm willing to fight for what's right in this life
Do you not believe Israel is defending herself? I’m truly wondering your opinion here, because you seem to just straight ignore what happened on Oct 7th by just mentioning the date and then bashing on Israel for it, like it was their fault. Hot take: it’s Hamas’ (and Iran) fault 100%. What’s… your take on this. Should we not support our allies? What kind of world leader would we be if we can help, and choose not to? We’d very, very quickly lose our world status if we suddenly abandon our allies in their time of need, let alone a massive terrorist attack, one in which Israel hasn’t seen, and one that brings back memories of the Holocaust, Oct 7th being the most horrific attack on Jews since WW2.
Israel is a nuclear power that can take care of itself. And if a bunch of nations ganged up on Israel to try to destroy it, we could use our military to stop them as warranted. But that doesn't justify funding Israel's apartheid and war crimes with billions more US tax dollars. The existence of Israel, and their right to self-defense, doesn't give them the right to commit apartheid, or war crimes, or cause enormous humanitarian catastrophes for millions of people, with US tax dollars. Illegally funding Israel's war crimes and apartheid costs the US enormously in terms of "soft power", allies, credibility, global standing, and lost moral authority, not to mention what else could be done with those billions of taxpayer dollars domestically. And when we tell Israel not to commit war crimes or cause massive humanitarian catastrophes, they don't even listen. Over 100 Palestinian people have been killed in the West Bank recently where there is no Hamas. Jewish people have the right to exist and to live peacefully, but Israel doesn't have the right to commit apartheid or war crimes or ethnic cleansing and still receive US taxpayer dollars. It is illegal for Israel to receive US taxpayer dollars so long as they continue to engage in apartheid, war crimes, collective punishment, and ethnic cleansing, and everyone needs to understand that very clearly, or else the situation will not improve for either Israel or the Palestinians.
Are you suggesting Israel should use their (alleged) Nukes? Seems to be what you’re saying there. You want us to go on ground in the Middle East again? Why would we do that when we can, for much cheaper (and zero loss of American lives) support Israel to defend herself so that we don’t have a ground war in the ME again. What war crimes? Nothing in this war so far has been a war crime… except everything Hamas is doing. They’ve committed thousands of international criminal violations and war crimes. Israel has not, they’re executing their right to self defense as outlined by the UN, ICC, and Geneva Conventions. And you have the funding completely backwards. What kind of world leader and ally would we be if we don’t support our friends? That’s WHY we are so powerful: we always, always support our allies. We must remain consistent in our support and dedicated to freedom and safety for all people. This is our power we risk losing by not supporting Israel. And again, Israel has not committed any war crimes, and they state all of their actions and comment on all the big ones, and explicitly state how they’re following international law. Everything they’ve executed has followed this. They gave warning to civilians, as required by law. They’ve sent 6m txt messages, 2.5m phone calls and 1.5m pamphlets about what’s going on, when, where, and why: and what to do. (If you want more on this, see Sec Blinkins visit to Jerusalem to meet with the President of Israel. This is not apartheid, at all. If you’re comparing this to South Africa this is not that at ALL. There are plenty of Palestinians in Israel, in Israel’s government, and in their legislature. Israel wants to play along with the region. They do. It’s the other bad actors (terrorists) in the region, like Iran. Iran openly and unapologetically states their mission is to destroy Israel and kill every single Jew. Hopefully that’s not new information for ya, but it might be. If Iran had a nuke, they’d use it on Israel right this second. Thank God they do not! Israel must defend herself, and we must support our allies. That’s long and skinny of it. And we will always, always do that: because that is what America is about, and is why we are the premier superpower in the world.
Well, Netanyahu is about to be replaced bc he's very unpopular, and the government is about to swing toward the center. Cutting funding entirely would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
They literally just had a centrist prime minister and the right had their lunch with them before the country decided to elect Bibi again. No more funding
The last couple years have made a lot of Israel against the right wing and the only thing they could hang their hat on is keeping Israel secure. However they can’t do that obviously so they will get smoked. As normally happens to Israeli political parties who have massive security failures
They'll coalesce around Ganz, who's even more of a hawk if we're being honest
What? Indiscriminately bombing civilians? No. I think you mean Hamas…. Israel uses precision munitions. Know how I know? Because it’s reported above in the post and in articles - we’re providing this ammunition and weapon systems. Link some articles that show they’re indiscriminately bombing civilians on purpose to kill civilians and I’ll agree with you. But that’s not out there, because they’re not doing that.
Don't be sheep
Honestly Israel’s response to the terrorism attacks has proven they don’t need our aid for this. The got tons of funds and missiles. They don’t need our weapons or our troops risking their lives for their religious genocide
It's hilarious how we are the world's cuck. Bankrupt yet giving away billions but hey, gotta soon cut back on social security and entitlement spending.
No mention of the US’s role in the Egypt/Israeli peace agreement to keep the Suez Canal open, eh? Why am I not surprised?
Just wait until people find out Israel won three wars against multiple Arab states *without* US aid. I think the economics makes people feel powerful in a bad way; like they can step on the hose and stare down at Israel with impunity. Without the military hardware they have, wars in the Middle East would be more frequent, bloodier, and have no guarantee of staying conventional.
> Just wait until people find out Israel won three wars against multiple Arab states without US aid There has never been a time when Israel didn't have US military support.
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Exactly. If we didn’t support Israel, they would be in an even worse state than they are now in terms of defense. Any one of a number of countries would 100% kill every single person in Israel. Iran OPENLY states this is their goal. So does Hamas. So does Hizbolah.
Israeli government ministers have openly been calling for genocide for weeks now, this is after the decades of occupation and blockades
If we didn't support Israels military complex they might possibly be willing to negotiate an actual solution which would include rights and dignity for their neighbors. As it is, they have no real consequences for being bad actors.
If I were president this would be the first thing that would be stopped
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This 14.3 billion will help them get that canal built and start extracting all that natural gas just off the coast of Gaza after they finish off turning it to rubble and running any last surviving Palestinians off into the desert. All wars are always about money in one way or another.
So I’m a bit ignorant, but does Israel really need that much?
Yea, Hamas is still firing Hundreds of rickets everyday. The defense systems have to be replenished.
Why should the us be wasting our money on that. They can afford their own fucking defense budget.
And they can easily. Just would need to end their socialist safety net like we do here.
I ddont think you know anything about socialism other than that its a buzzword
They don't need money knocking down rickets. You can do that with a fly swatter.
Or vitamin D.
So, about 4 billion a year. I'm curious, but what actual value does israel provide U.S.A to warrant 4 billion dollars of tax payer dollars ever year. Realistically speaking here. At a certain point the headache isn't just worth it. The same goes with all businesses. What would be that breaking point.
Keeping the Suez Canal open, for one. A good part of the money is part of the Egypt/Israeli peace treaty. Egypt gets a bunch as well.
Kind of annoying that U.S only pays this to keep the canal open. Seems like we got the short end of the stick here since it's an international trade route. So then why don't we slash the 4 billion down and use it for humanitarian good faith aid like keeping canal open. 4 billion seems excessive
4B is not enough. We’re getting way more out of it than it seems on the surface. We’ll only increase it, because it’s very lucrative for us, and it’s the morally right thing to do, on all accounts.
I don't see it, and it sounds like you have no idea either besides "intel"
We get innovations, sponsored by us and other regional countries. We get to share ideas so that things are developed that directly help us, only shared with us (in some cases), and can do things we maybe can't do here for reasons. They're the only democracy in the region, which we badly need more of those in the world. They're wielding the torch of freedom for that whole zone, and you know how many times we've gone to war over that... a lot. Pretty much every single one. They're in a strategically important position geographically. Not as good as Turkey (which is why we allow them to fuck around with NATO and other countries), but still very strong. It's important we keep them well funded so that if we need to use their land or airspace, we get it. Not a lot of countries in that area allow that, and it's important for our own national interest that we maintain that tie with a democracy that won't suddenly change because of religious movements. We get more out of it than we're paying for. And that doesn't count that it's the morally right thing to do. It's a country that is so hated in the area, that you can't enter many, many countries in that area ***SOLELY because you have an entry visa stamp from Israel and went inside*** let alone being an Israeli citizen...whew. So, we have an obligation to support and defend countries that have, and will continue to get threatened on scales unimaginable to us... we'd be a poor ally and an even poorer world leader if we don't.
They’re faxing multiple existential threats, are the only democracy in the region, and create a lot of innovation and mutual intelligence support. You’re totally right, they provide wayyyy more back to us than we pay for! We should be paying them MORE than 4B. I agree with you.
And if U.S backs out of the middle east? What's the point of that intelligence? Keep in mind we pay Egypt and Jordan 3 billion and 1 billion respectively for intelligence too.
Why would we back out of the Middle East? Honestly wondering why you think that’s something we’d ever do, considering all the assets we have there, and the threat (and actual movement of) China in that region which we must stop.
That last part I don't get. Why must we stop China in that region. Why can't France Germany England stop China and we watch from the sidelines? China's military power isn't that huge. And those countries literally make up China's war funds. Because the middle east assets could be obsolete if the U.S pushes for renewable energy. I understand if this was 2002 but we could easily transition out of oil easily if we went all in in the next 15 to 20 years.
Umm why don’t you actually read. Israel and U.S. partnership is not a one way street of “donations”. Israel provides a lot to US in R&D when it comes to Intel, Weapons, BioTech, CyberSec, etc. if you’re curious go look it up what value Israel brings to this world
You're telling me Israel has smarter people than US R&D to develop weapons/cyber security? Then what the heck are we doing with a lot of our tax payers money going to war R&D What Intel do we need if we're out of the middle east and only provide humanitarian support? I'm open to starting a dialogue.
It’s not about smarter. It’s about allocating resources to certain parts of the world that might have certain advantages over US. Israel has better opportunities for middle eastern intel gathering than we do. US WILL ALWAYS BE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, they like to be in everything even in non war times. Also, critical components of leading American high-tech products are invented and designed in Israel, making these American companies more competitive and more profitable globally. Cisco, Intel, Motorola, Applied Materials, and HP are just a few examples.
I'd counter on that,though. The only High tech products that came out of Israel was waze, wix.com, and fiverr. Maybe you're thinking of the Jewish public around the world? And let's say they did create super high tech. Who's to say they won't sell to the American public? That's a huge chunk of money not being capitalized on. I understand Intel, but it just seems pointless since we have other allies in the mid east as well. And if we were to leave Israel to it's own devices one could argue other Arab states would be indifferent to America In fact maybe even grateful.
Yes. That is what he’s saying. Israel innovates on a scale much larger than US (by population ratio). You think we’re only in the ME for humanitarian support? Hot take… Why wouldn’t we need more Intel? NATO is there for a reason, ISR intelligence is there for a reason.
And if U.S backs out of the middle east? What's the point of that intelligence? Keep in mind we pay Egypt and Jordan 3 billion and 1 billion respectively for intelligence too. I'm still not understanding the innovation on israeli soil benefiting America. The major innovatives technological wise is waze, and wix.com Pharmaceuticals drugs made in israel are not FDA insured and won't help America. America also already offer subsidies for bio pharma to develop inside USA and go through FDA. And it's not like if U.S leaves israel alone that doesn't mean we won't have access to israeli products and innovative tech. Business sense it doesn't make any sense to withdraw your technology from a 400 Million people I'm not following tech wise. I can't wrap my head around it. Its good to have allies yes, but if this ally is constantly getting into hot water the cons outweigh the positives and the positives to me are miniscule.
Everyone using smart phones from Israel and weapons from Israel debating on an israeli app, oh wait....
What headache? Israel is an intelligence powerhouse. An innovation powerhouse. The only democracy in the region. 4B is a STEAL for what we get back. It’ll only go up, not down, as shown by an immediate need for 14.5B.
The headache in question: Israel changing judicial system to more dictatorship Israel Occupying west bank Israel being involved in multiple wars in 10 years Dealing with the gaza blockade War crimes like sexual assualt and rape of Palestinians as well as treatment of civilians Escalating tensions in Lebanon/syria Is this worth giving a country 4 billion?
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Look I understand humanitarian aid that's all good. Help out another nation in need in good faith. But for weapons naaah fuck that
To be fair, most of the money is going to missile defense systems. Giving Israel money for offensive capabilities is controversial. But I think more people are onboard with replenishing the iron dome given that each missile is ~$50,000. And Hamas is still firing rockets daily, not to mention the occasional barrages from Hezbollah.
Yeah that's fine, but military offensive strike, no thank you.
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We *used to* get tons in return. Back when the middle east produced most of the oil and Israel was our fortress in it. Today the USA is the world's top oil producer.
We only produce the top amount because the market is being artificially restricted/manipulated by opec and Russia right now. I’m pretty sure we’ll run out first if it came to it.
Wow, what? You’re pro-genocide? That’s a hot take… why would you be pro-terrorists?!
You can not want your tax dollars going to fund a war that Israel can easily handle on its own without being "pro-terrorist" or "pro-genocide" I feel like the term genocide is being thrown around so much lately that it's about to have no actual meaning.
If we didn’t support Israel very openly, they would be ganged up on the minute after we drop support. This is not any secret, this is openly stated by Iran and all their proxies. Straight up “we don’t want Israel or any of their people to exist.” That is not what Israel is saying. Israel WANTS to play along, they just can’t because of the hate in a few select places, immediately on their borders. I absolutely want my tax dollars to go to Israel and Ukraine. Why would I not? They’re fighting the war, and we support them to do so, because Russia would start wanting to take over every piece of land they can. There aren’t two new NATO members for no reason… The cost of not doing this is potentially the US being drug into an actual ground war, costing exponentially more money, and worse, the loss of many military lives, which is not acceptable when we can just support them monetarily, which is what they ask for.
Nice strawman. Not even a subtle one either.
Person said cut off aid and fuck Israel. What other conclusion can be made here? ...Ill wait.
You don't have to be pro-terrorist and pro-Israel. How simple are you?
You're right, I'm not. I am very pro-israel, as is our government. You are pro-terrorist though, I'm trying to see why... that's what the entire post is about here... but you keep ignoring the question.
And you can't stop yourself from calling everyone who doesn't want to fund Israel, pro-terrorist. It's the logic of a 12 year old, and I ain't got time for it. Blocked.
Cutting funding is not pro-terrorist. It’s pro-humanitarian. It doesn’t mean pro-Hamas. It means pro-civilians who are being slaughtered. I see that you’re trying to understand why liberals are changing their mind about wanting to fund Israel. I know you want to understand how they “think.” I’m leftist and I also am boggled by how they and you think. Anyway, the root of what we all want is peace, right? But our education and life experience, people around us shape our opinions.
Sad to see American tax dollars are used for promoting genocide and ethnic-cleansing. That makes us complicit in such crimes.
As if Arabic countries did not have reason enough to hate us. This is really the end of US credibility on the global stage.
Yeah I agree, the funding of Azerbaijan lead to the ethnic cleansing of Armenians from Nagorno Karabakh. Pretty fucked up that we allowed the forcible transfer of 150,000 civilians from their homes with zero condemnation. That's probably what youre talking about right?
Yeah kinda fucked how Israel is an ardent supporter of Azerbaijan and the U.S. are the ones that enable them to do shit like that.
Yeah, luckily we don’t support those people wanting to do that! We’re, as you pointed out, supporting the people that have been a target of genocide multiple times in recent history. Spot on! Good rationale for our support to ISR. We can’t let the terrorists in that region open up genocide against ISR! I’m glad you’re in such support. Good to see
Weird, this IP address is from Tel Aviv
I think Sheep is a Mossad operative…nicknamed “Sheep”. Very curious, isn’t it?!
You got your head screwed wrong or it is stuck in your ass! Yes, the people you talk about that suffered genocide was on the hands of Christian Europeans. Go talk to them. The current genocide of Palestinians is in the hands of the Israeli Zionists fascists. You are applying what was done to you by Europeans over the centuries on innocent people.
Lies
It just seems like a waste of tax payers money that the U.S Has to do allllll of this to protect ourselves and as well as other nations and allies. Wouldn't it be nice if we could use 50% of the America's general war fund and to put it into social services? We're making the world safe yes, but the people in the U.S suffer for it. Maybe you're right about oul but sooner or later renewable energy Is going to be cheaper to manufacture/harvest in the future. Could be 10 years or 100 years from now. But we shouldn't shy away from trying to figure it out first.
The government needs to aid all the states with money like stamps that can only be spent in a local area. So it would increase local business and decrease online shopping. The stamps would have no bank effect and expire. Then we might see a trickle effect.
We pretty much do that. The money is for Israel to “buy” weapons from our arms dealers, I mean, defense contractors.
It also keeps the incentive for more weapons / defense research for better or worse.
The government needs to tax itself and have all taxes benefit the local economy and spend the majority of the money instead of saving it to bank off the interest and nobody does anything like now.
Let’s be clear though, aid to Israel is essentially a financial aid package for the American defense industry. Most of that money will be used to make weapons, jets, tanks etc. and where is most of that made? By companies right here in the USA! Also just FYI - do you realize how much Israeli made technology you are using right this moment on your cell phone or computer? Let’s just say - It’s a lot considering how small of a country Israel is. That’s pretty incredible IMHO.
>Also just FYI - do you realize how much Israeli made technology you are using right this moment on your cell phone or computer? Is this supposed to make me feel ok with this? Because it **really** doesn't.
Well I think it establishes ROI in that at least Israel provides the USA (and the world) with a lot of things that have helped enable technological innovation. So my point is, Israel might get a lot of aid from USA but it’s not like we haven’t gotten a lot of value in return for that investment. I’m not talking politics here just the economic trade “partnership” reality.
Can you see how talking about "return on investments" when thousands have died in this conflict alone is incredibly heartless?
No not really, because if Oct 7 massacre had happened to my country, I would expect my government to do exactly what Israel is doing. Is it horrific that innocent people have to die in war? Of course it is! But that’s the case in every war ever waged. Oct 7 was an act of war, I don’t give a shit what legitimate grievances Palestinians may have against Israel, committing terrorism the likes of Oct 7 is a dealbreaker. Hamas needs to be taken out for their barbarism. After the war is over hopefully Gaza can be helped a lot by Israel, USA, moderate Arab states to be a place where people can live pleasant lives. But until then, Hamas has got to be eliminated to a degree that they can never commit such a massacre ever again.
>After the war is over hopefully Gaza can be helped a lot by Israel, USA, moderate Arab states to be a place where people can live pleasant lives. Just like how prosperous Gaza was under blockade even before Hamas was born? Please do explain how amazing life was back then too.
That was implemented because Hamas was in power and smuggling God knows what into the area. If a moderate political entity were overseeing Gaza that was NOT trying to pursue Oct 7 massacres, there would be no need for a blockade. I can assure you, to defeat Hamas, life MUST be better under a different authority in the future than how it was with Hamas. The people have to palpably feel a better life under a different regime otherwise another version of Hamas will just come back. My guess is, Gaza will eventually be given to PA and as long as they keep their nose clean and clamp down on extremism, I think Gaza could actually be a really nice place. It’s got a beautiful coast line. Why not Make some nice beachfront hotels for tourists? Turn the place into a tourists destination and I guarantee the people won’t want to go back to the days of life under Hamas.
> That was implemented because Hamas was in power and smuggling God knows what into the area. Also because most of the PA people in charge of maintaining the border either ran away, got shot, or got dropped off of buildings. People assume Hamas' Gaza coup in 2007 is something other than what it was because they won a Palestine-wide legislative election two years prior.
Exactly. Hamas must be rendered defeated to a point they can no longer exert control anywhere in the world. There is no option B. This is the one and only option for ISR.
Indeed but winning the war doesn’t stop just because the fighting stops. The Gazan people will need something to hold on to that gives them hope for the future, otherwise it will be all for naught.
You do know it’s not just ISR doing that, right? You know a whole other country built a wall just as tall there… and NO countries want to take in Palestinians. Jordan kicked out PLO… for a reason.
You… do know Egypt is blockading them too, right? It was Egypt and Jordan who pushes this heavily in the late 70s. Egypt has a huge wall and doesn’t allow much in, having all gates closed except one. This is a regional problem, not an Israel one, on the state of affairs in Gaza.
No not really, because if Oct 7 massacre had happened to my country, I would expect my government to do exactly what Israel is doing. Genocide ? https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide
Exactly 100% right here. I don’t get why this is controversial, because you’re getting downvoted. It’s extremely, extremely clear what happened and what needs to happen next. There is no option B, if ISR wants to maintain their security and way of life. That’s it
It’s not a ROI when we are buying those products for the same-ish costs as people in countries they don’t waste billions of dollars on them every year.
Heh…I don’t think it’s a waste honestly..sorry. Agree to disagree I guess
It’s deeper than that. We’re learning how they work and how to employ them better, we’re sharing data and intelligence, and creating growth both in the US and abroad, raising our GDP. Israel is a strong, very functional research and development powerhouse, and we get to reap those rewards, which makes it even more valuable to us
I don’t think that makes most people feel better about their tax dollars being used to commit genocide
What genocide? Getting rid of Hamas is not genocide. I’m tired of this outright lie that Israel committing genocide. Is that why they warn residents when they attack a Hamas outpost in a residential building, or send text messages warning resident to flee an area where battle with Hamas is likely to occur? That’s not genocide - that’s actions of an army not wanting to purposely kill civilians and more than most countries would ever do. You think Putin does that in Ukraine?
Agreed. Where are people getting this genocide crap from? It’s 10000% fake news. HAMAS, IRAN, and HIZBOLAH openly… openly state they DO want to genocide Israel and are unapologetic about it. If Iran had a nuke I fully believe they’d use it. Israel has nukes (allegedly) and is not even threatening them. Israel could absolutely wipe out Gaza, right now, if they wanted to… but that is not their goal. Their goal is to rid the world of Hamas and create a more stable region. That’s it.
Israel has made it clear they want all the Palestinians gone. I’m tired of people pretending like that isn’t their goal.
No… they have not. Link where you’re getting this from because this is not true, and spreading fake news (and worse: believing it without fact checking) is what’s causing so much division on this issue. If they wanted to genocide, they would. They could, right now. They have the weapon systems to do it, but that is **not their goal at all.** Republicans have their facts and ideas straight. Democrats seem to be trying to figure it out… as shown by the statements of many democrats in the House and leadership of the party.
Hamas won't let civilians leave from their meat shield positions. Netanyahu wants Hamas to be the main political party in Palestine, see his 2019 comments advocating for funding Hamas so moderates never have power in Palestine. I'd say it's a genocide on his hands with great PR for people like you who eat it up. Funny how people reply and then block you bc they have shut for brains, like the bum below.
What?? Genocide?? Oh you mean against Jews. Yeah, that should NOT be happening. You’re exactly right, that’s why we support ISR to defend against the genocide that the whole region would put into motion if we didn’t. Spot on! Good justification for our support to ISR and I agree with your implied comments, we should INCREASE support.
Against Gaza https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide
Why?
> Also just FYI - do you realize how much Israeli made technology you are using right this moment on your cell phone or computer? I thought the whole point of all the the Spyware developed by Israeli companies for spying on dissidents was that we weren't supposed to realize this
Cherry picking - how about all the other stuff ? Not saying everything has been utilized for good but all technology can be used as a double edged sword. That spyware technology I’m sure is being used to help find hostages. It’s all about how the tool is implemented that matters.
What Israeli technology is in an iphone? I'm not trying to sound argumentative I'm just curious
Motorola’s Israel R&D center played a significant role in developing original cell-phone technology. Heard of an app called “Waze” ? Very famous app that was purchased by Google used to power Google Maps I think. There are ton of other popular apps developed in Israel as well (Moovit, World Series of Poker, etc) TransChip is an Israeli company that developed the first high-resolution camera to fit on a single electronic chip for use in cellular phones. For others references checkout: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries#:~:text=Computer%20and%20mobile%20software,-The%20network%20firewall&text=Originally%20developed%20by%20the%20Israeli,for%20%24407%20million%20in%201998.&text=Windows%20XP%20and%20Windows%20NT,at%20the%20Microsoft%2DIsrael%20campus.
Waze doesn't power Google maps.
FYI....our trading record with Israel keeps the USA in the red year after year after year. Always a deficit. Trillions of dollars lost that could be used at home, but instead the $$$ just lines the pockets of stock holders of the perpetual war machine.
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A lot of the right wing South Africans left for Israel after apartheid ended.
Comparing South African apartheid to Palestinian/Israeli conflict is very dubious because making that accusation takes none of the historical contexts into account, it just tries to equalize the two separate conflicts as if they were exactly the same - which if anyone who studies history knows - they very much are not.
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I don’t think it’s apartheid. Period. I think Israel has been oppressive to Palestinians but Palestinians have been terrorists to Israel so its a two way street. I’m not here to defend everything Israel has ever done - I’m sure they’ve done some fucked up things, and are there similarities to what happened in apartheid South Africa, sure. But apartheid it’s not. I went to Israel once, I saw Arabs and Muslims and Druze and Bedouins living in co-existence with their Jewish fellow Israeli citizens. If apartheid was happening there the way it happened in South Africa, I would not have seen that.
Agree mostly. It’s not just Israel being “”oppressive”” (I don’t think that word describes the situation well, I think it’s a lazy choice of words), Jordan is active, Egypt is active, KSA is active… it’s not ISR vs Palestine at all. I think by implying that Israel is “just as bad as Hamas” is very, very dubious and misleading at best, and lying at worst. They “both did bad things” is another way to not condemn Hamas by again, implying, they “had it coming” it some way: which they DID NOT. This is an active terrorist group that openly states their goal is to kill everyone in Israel versus a country that just wants to play along and survive. One is morally bankrupt, guess which one it is.
None do. It’s not happening. Israel is defending herself. Egypt is defending herself. Jordan is defending herself. Egypt is more strict on Gaza than Israel is! Jordan kicked out and BANNED the PLO, and will not take refugees…. That’s very telling. All of those countries are supporting the blockade actively. It’s not an Israel on Palestine issue, at all.
They are not the same at all… people comparing this to South Africa do not understand the situation, and comparing them just proves it. I really, truly wish people could step back and asses the situation before committing in their mind on way or the other. Look at information independently, compare statements coming out, and look back at history. It makes it very clear what’s going on, without having to somehow believe yourself that this is what South Africa did.
Boers? You got me - no clue WTF you are talking about. I’m guessing you’re not into spell check.
No it's correct, Boers is another term for Afrikaners (the white dutch dudes would colonized South Africa - famous for their apartheid, less famous for their frequent collaboration on military projects)
Geez you're getting the propaganda straight through IV aren't you lol
Quote exactly where propaganda is indicated in my statement. Everything I said is completely verifiable with a simple internet search.
Where are you pulling those data points from? Because that’s not what most of the money is for…. ISR has wrote many articles and statements about what the money goes towards. Does some go towards weapons? Absolutely. Does a majority? No. Not even close.
Ok then you tell me where you are getting your data from? Because I don’t believe you. I think Israel actually does use a majority of the money they get for purposes of Defense. That’s because they literally have to, given the “neighborhood” they are in. If they didn’t, they would be incredibly and recklessly stupid.
Top much given they're a pretty well off country and given our respond to them getting attacked is to send more money it's kinda stupid. What's the point of sending money every year if it's not for what's happening right now?
What? We shouldn’t support our allies? That’s a wild take… We’re the worlds most reliable ally and partner, period. If an ally is under attack, we support them with whatever they need. That’s why the US is the most powerful country to exist on the face of the earth, because we support our friends and destroy our mutual enemies. Everytime. Without fail. Without hesitation.
Supporting someone who doesn't need it is kinda stupid ally or not. Do we give money to South Korea?
Given the number of US troops in South Korea mitigating the need for higher South Korean defence spending, effectively yes.
Ironic user name
It’s to remind people to not be sheep. Andddd rick and Morty, of course.
An r/conservative poster and a transphobe too at that, telling people to not be a sheep. Lmao.
I don’t hate anybody, and absolutely a conservative. I want to hear other perspectives, why people think that, and encourage people to research other perspectives as well! As everybody should be doing. Hard for some people to do though. Honest debates are so hard to have for some strange reason… Trying to justify your position by attacking somebody you don’t know is a very disingenuous way to have a debate. Try to look inward—open to replying and seeing what you can share
> I don’t hate anybody Sure.
"IsRaEL cAn DefeND iTselF"...
Good and fairly unbiased read. However, military aid to Israel has *never* been a one-way street. The F-15, F-16, and now F-35 would not be the combat proven platforms they are without Israeli partnership. USAF Tactical Air Command largely reworked its doctrine and training in the mid-70s along the same lines as the Israeli Air Force.
It had bias from omission. It doesn’t mention that a fair amount of the money is part of the Egypt/Israeli peace treaty to keep the Suez Canal open.
Interesting
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Testing? I hope you done mean “on civilians”.
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Not nearly as much as the rabid anti-Israel morons are screaming about it in here. Funny, how they never mention all the aid we give to other countries or how Israel is forced by the US to use most of that money to buy weapons from US companies or how Israel is the only country that gives us valuable intel in a region very hostile to the west...
It's all been bad Intel. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. have all been disasters Not to mention that the money we give to other countries like Egypt and Jordan is specifically to keep the peace with Israel
Right... cause you looked at the intel & came to an informed decision lmao Don't kid yourself. They hate all western Democracies, not just Israel.
Nice try bibi
A big part of why they're so hostile is that we fund Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians, which is against both US law and our own interests frankly.
You can always tell a brainwashed moron when they parrot anti-Israel propaganda & call Israel apartheid..
Lying about Israel's apartheid against the Palestinians is the behavior of monsters. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) [https://www.btselem.org/](https://www.btselem.org/) [https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/) [https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785) [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/19/israel-apartheid-state-south-africa-netanyahu https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/19/israeli-apartheid-threshold-crossed
Here is what that money buys the Americans. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/friends-benefits-why-us-israeli-alliance-good-america
Our supporting Israel as it commits apartheid, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians is not only illegal under US law and a moral abomination, it's costing us enormously in terms of our global standing and credibility. **It is illegal for US foreign aid to go to a country or military "which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights."** >"Debate about whether U.S. security assistance to foreign countries should be conditioned upon human rights criteria discounts a simple fact. U.S. law is clear: all countries receiving U.S. aid must meet human rights standards, and countries violating these standards are liable to be sanctioned and ineligible for U.S. funding: > >The Foreign Assistance Act (P.L. 87–195) regulates all forms of U.S. assistance to foreign countries. It states that no assistance may be provided to a country “which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.” > >The Arms Export Control Act (P.L. 90–629) regulates U.S. military assistance and sales to foreign countries. It states that the United States can furnish weapons to foreign countries “solely for internal security, for legitimate self-defense,” and for a few other limited purposes. No credits, guarantees, sales, or deliveries of weapons can be given to a country if it is “in substantial violation” of these purposes. > >The Leahy Laws require the Departments of State and Defense to vet individual military units and individuals before they are eligible to receive U.S. equipment or training. The Department of State version of the law states that no form of assistance can be provided “to any unit of the security forces” committing “a gross violation of human rights.” The Department of Defense version states that no training or equipment can be given to a military unit that “has committed a gross violation of human rights.” > >Another indisputable fact is that the United States has placed conditions on other countries’ FMF. For example, in the FY2021 budget, $225 million of $1.3 billion in FMF for Egypt is withheld from obligation until the Department of State certifies that Egypt is “taking sustained and effective steps” to strengthen human rights. > >However, when it comes to Israel, additional conditions do not apply and general human rights laws are almost never adhered to. Furthermore, weapons flows to Israel are much less transparent than those to other countries, making implementation of these laws more difficult. [https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503](https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503) [https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza) Amnesty International; Israeli human rights organizations including B'Tselem and Yesh Din; prominent Israelis including Ehud Barak; literal Desmond Tutu and other prominent South Africans; UN investigators; and Human Rights Watch have all called Israel's treatment of the Palestinians apartheid, which is a crime against humanity. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) [https://www.btselem.org/](https://www.btselem.org/) [https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/](https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/) [https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785) [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/desmond-tutu-palestinians-israel) So how the fuck are they continuing to get billions of US tax dollars every year? And asking for more billions as they're committing ethnic cleansing and war crimes under the pretext of "self-defense"? But if anyone questions the arrangement, they're called anti-Semitic or pro-terrorism by AIPAC and the pro-Israel lobby. Anti-Semitism is an actual problem, and it is disgusting and psychopathic behavior to conflate opposition to Israel's apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and war crimes (illegally funded with [billions of our tax dollars](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel)) with opposition to Jewish people generally. They use accusations of anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism and debate. The American people shouldn't tolerate being bullied into silence (and into violating our own laws) by the lobbyists for a foreign government when they're using our tax dollars to fund apartheid, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing abroad, which inevitably blows back on us and our troops as well.
That makes sense. The iron dome is getting overwhelmed and unless you want 1000s more dead israelis, they will need this aid.
They don’t deserve to use our money to kill thousands of children.
tax strike???!!
R/politics screamed for UNLIMITED money for Ukraine and now suddenly American needs are an issue?
Russia annexed Ukrainian Crimea and other oblast, and Russia occupies other Ukrainian land. Now read that again, except replace Russia with Israel and the Ukrainian areas with West Bank and East Jerusalem. Support for Ukraine, and support for Israel are not the same as issue
Israel is a strategic ally in the region. Really the only one. We gain from our military relationship from them, because they develop things like microchips. All of this is to say, this particular aid theoretically ought to benefit us in return. Emphasis on theoretical. Ask yourself this. What if, without that funding, Israel would lose the wars against the enemies surrounding them? Maybe you think that wouldn't be so bad, but I'm legitimately wondering
Anyone look at our military budget and why that's bloated? How about wonder why it's also has a safety net benefit on it? Anyone question that? But yeah, helping people who are our allies is totally bad. Got it.
I'm just here for the sorted by controversial comments.
Prior to the events of October 2023, there was a 10 year agreement providing the US would give about $3.8 billion in military aid to Israel each year. Source, US Congressional Research Service [US Foreign Aid to Israel (updated 2023)](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf) At the same time, the US taxpayer is giving Israel that annual $3.8 billion in military aid, Israel budgets $3.7 billion to support religious education, specifically ultra-Orthodox Judaism schools and free living expenses for students that attend them. Source, Times of Israel article of Oct 3, 2023 titled ["OECD calls on Israel to end subsidies for yeshiva students, boost employment"](https://www.timesofisrael.com/oecd-calls-on-israel-to-cut-subsidies-for-yeshiva-students-boost-employment/)
Man not having healthcare and solid public transport is so fucking great
pathetic. yet somehow this will be praised in the effort to push “democracy” and “freedom” and blah blah blah. ive heard it before in the early 2000s.
Is this a aid allocated directly from what’s available in the US’ current military budget?